Stuff
dem...@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
to be about Fenchurch?
Unrelated point...my brother heard from a friend that Adams seriously HATES
writing, saying that other writers SAY they hate it but only he really
means it. The story goes that he had something like a year to write one of
the Dirk Gently books but dashed it off in the last few weeks. Also heard
that his publishers post people outside his door to make sure he gets the
work done. Has anyone else heard this? We got the impression that people
were badgering him to write another HHG book so he said in effect, "You
want another one? FINE! I'll kill them all, in all possible universes!
Here's your f---ing book!"
Renee
Devin 'Nice Guy' Tuffy
Regarding Mostly Harmless...
Yes, I believe that is exactly why he ended the book the way he did. He was apparently sick of the characters and of people badgering him that he decided to kill everyone so no one could POSSIBLY ask for another book.
Unfortonatly, this is not to be the case. Everyone on this newsgroup seems to
have their own theory on how they could have been saved and how he can have up to five more books in the series or something like that. But i truly believe this ending was written this way so people COULDNT demand another series...
Although what he should have done is forget about this infinite universes thing and kept the story consistent with the rest of the books (only one earth (well, only one earth at a time) and only one universe). That way, when he killed
off everyone then no one could say, "Well what about the infinity -1 other Arthurs..."
well, that's just my $0.42
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Wes Simonds
>Unfortonatly, this is not to be the case. Everyone on this newsgroup seems to
>have their own theory on how they could have been saved and how he can have up
>to five more books in the series or something... But i truly believe this
>ending was written this way so people COULDNT demand another series...
I think it was written very poorly and witlessly so that people WOULDN'T
demand another series, and also because Adams seems not to have either the
inspiration or the energy which absolutely top-notch comedy demands. There
was a time when he was the top comic novelist in the world, but in his last
two books Adams seems to be deliberately laying waste to his reputation.
_Dirk_ was a really good book, except for the obligatory and boring SF aspects
of it; _Teatime_ sucked, except for Chapter Three, which I am convinced is the
earliest chapter of the book; and _MH_ has not a single good scene in it, and
only a small handful of good lines. I won't be buying any more HHGG books.
Wes
Martin Dougiamas
>I think it was written very poorly and witlessly so that people WOULDN'T
>demand another series, and also because Adams seems not to have either the
>inspiration or the energy which absolutely top-notch comedy demands. There
>was a time when he was the top comic novelist in the world, but in his last
>two books Adams seems to be deliberately laying waste to his reputation.
Perhaps you've changed more than he has. Just because he no longer has
so many wacky alien beings does not mean his basic comic ability,
ie that of contemporary satire and witty dialogue, has changed much.
In fact, the only changes I see are for the better... his characters now
are deftly sketched with a few words and filled out rapidly with a few more
sentences, for example.
>earliest chapter of the book; and _MH_ has not a single good scene in it, and
>only a small handful of good lines. I won't be buying any more HHGG books.
Did you honestly not enjoy the dialogue between Ford and Arthur when
they get back together again? That was hilarious! And very very clever
to boot. Didn't you like Ford's misadventures in the HHGG offices?
And how could you not like "So Long..." ... one of the horniest bits
of writing I've seen... How could any guy *fail* to fall in love with
Fenchurch? And what about all that flying stuff? That was so well
described that after finishing the book I actually believed ignoring
gravity was possible. And Murray... and Wonko... the list goes
on and on... great book.
I think the trick with his latest books is to read them *slowly*, so
you can appreciate all the subtlety. I suspect some people just
rush through it looking for zany catch phrases they can make
official fan t-shirts out of!
Great bottomless hurtling hooping funts,
Martin
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Wes Simonds
>Perhaps you've changed more than he has. Just because he no longer has
>so many wacky alien beings does not mean his basic comic ability,
>ie that of contemporary satire and witty dialogue, has changed much.
>In fact, the only changes I see are for the better... his characters now
>are deftly sketched with a few words and filled out rapidly with a few more
>sentences, for example.
Well, that's one way to put it. I would agree with you that he still has
talent; I heard the man speak in person in October here at UT Austin, and he
deserved the applause and the packed room; but _MH_ is just a sloppy and
unfunny book, in which I laughed exactly twice (once for the line about
breathing fresh air in New York by going to a window and sticking your head
in a building, and once for the phrase "cross-eyed badger spit."). The Elvis
bit, for example, is pretty plainly a first draft, and not a good one.
>And how could you not like "So Long..." ... one of the horniest bits
>of writing I've seen... How could any guy *fail* to fall in love with
>Fenchurch? And what about all that flying stuff? That was so well
I never said I didn't like _Fish_! In fact, I think the Hyde Park/Biscuit
scene in it is one of the best scenes Adams has ever done, period. What I
said was that I didn't like _Teatime_, except for Chapter Three, and I didn't
like _MH_ at all.
>I think the trick with his latest books is to read them *slowly*, so
>you can appreciate all the subtlety. I suspect some people just
Ummm... _MH_ has some subtlety, but it is not wit. It is instead a collection
of ideas which many people in this group have chosen to read as an extension
of Adams' "philosophy" but which are, in fact, only the rudiments of what might
have been comedy if he'd spent a little more time. The reason that HHGTTG and
RATEOFU are frequently cited as Adams' best books is that by the time they
were books, he had written many drafts of the material and had refined it to
the point that it was as good as he could make it. This is simply not true
of books like _Teatime_, which, as Terry Pratchett has pointed out, show
obvious signs of "deadline surfing."
My favorite Adams sequences:
1. The first three chapters of HHGTTG.
2. All the Restaurant stuff in RATEOFU.
3. The Agrajag sequence in LTUAE, as well as the first two chapters.
4. Everything in SLATFATF up to and including Wonko.
5. The Cambridge Dinner and all scenes with Dirk in DGHDA.
6. Chapter Three in TLDTOTS; also, bits in the Woodshead and Thor's Gluing.
7. Nothing in MH.
Here is a line from _Fish_:
"Grown men, he told himself, in flat contradiction of centuries of accumulated
evidence about the way grown men behave, do not behave like this."
It is, in my opinion anyway, rough going looking for lines of this quality
in _MH_. And as for scenes to match the Hyde Park scene in the same book, you
can forget it. They aren't there.
Martin Dougiamas
>I never said I didn't like _Fish_!
Ah, when you said his last two books, I assumed you meant HHGTTG books.
My apologies. I consider the Dirk books as a separate series.
>My favorite Adams sequences:
[...]
>7. Nothing in MH.
Not even the "Disgusting Old Lady" scene? Not even the Ford/Arthur
reunion scene? If you didn't like these then all I can say is comedy
means different things to us. What about Ford plummeting to a certain
death past all those floors in the HH building and flicking V signs
to them all as he passes?
>Here is a line from _Fish_:
>"Grown men, he told himself, in flat contradiction of centuries of accumulated
>evidence about the way grown men behave, do not behave like this."
And a great line it is. But not that brain-swivellingly better than
most of his writing, in all his books.
>It is, in my opinion anyway, rough going looking for lines of this quality
>in _MH_.
Perhaps, but the quality of MH is not *that* far behind. You seem to be
saying that just because MH has no lines in it that are as good as one of
the best lines in a previous book (IYO) that it is a pile of worthless crap.
>And as for scenes to match the Hyde Park scene in the same book, you
>can forget it. They aren't there.
Oh, I agree. But this does not mean the book is entirely worthless as
you suggest, or bad enough to make sure you wouldn't buy a sequel, as
you said. It's a different kind of book. That's why he got rid of
Fenchurch. I'd like to see you write a better book that Mostly Harmless.
Steve Wechsler
>I never said I didn't like _Fish_! In fact, I think the Hyde Park/Biscuit
>scene in it is one of the best scenes Adams has ever done, period.
DNA was on Late Night with David Letterman (several years ago - he's
probably been on since then - this was when _Fish_ came out), and
related that story. He claimed that it actually had happened to him
(he as Arthur).
Steve
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Jussi Kantola
> The Elvis bit, for example, is pretty plainly a first draft, and not
> a good one.
Has anyone mentioned before that there's an Elvis-appearence in
_Good Omens_ (by Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman) a bit similar to that
of _Mostly Harmless'_?
---
Jussi Kantola from Paltamo, Finland
email: ju...@sday.pulp.nullnet.fi
Siusan Moffat
>In article <1k1jj1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> gi...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Wes Simonds) writes:
>
>>I never said I didn't like _Fish_! In fact, I think the Hyde Park/Biscuit
>>scene in it is one of the best scenes Adams has ever done, period.
>
>DNA was on Late Night with David Letterman (several years ago - he's
>probably been on since then - this was when _Fish_ came out), and
>related that story. He claimed that it actually had happened to him
>(he as Arthur).
>
>Steve
>--
actually an urban legend.
siue
Robin Halligan
: Unfortunately, no matter what mr. adams says, the bisuit scene is
: actually an urban legend.
: siue
Fantastic can you provide proof please
does this mean that you have watched DNA all his life to make this statment?
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