RIP Shel Silverstein
BobKinDC
cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
Attic":
If you have to do the dishes (such an awful, dreadful bore)
If you have to do the dished ('stead of going to the store)
If you have to do the dishes AND YOU DROP ONE ON THE FLOOR...
...Maybe they won't let you do the dishes anymore!
-----------------------------------
--Bob Kennedy
Alexandria, VA
http://hometown.aol.com/bobkindc/club/index.htm
Rowan Mayfair
> Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
> cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
>
> A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
> one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> Attic":
>
> If you have to do the dishes (such an awful, dreadful bore)
> If you have to do the dished ('stead of going to the store)
> If you have to do the dishes AND YOU DROP ONE ON THE FLOOR...
> ...Maybe they won't let you do the dishes anymore!
> -----------------------------------
Cause of death according to CNN's website was a massive heart attack. They report
that he had 'severe coronary artery disease'.
http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9905/10/obit.silverstein.02.ap/
Thank you for posting this, Bob, I wanted to earlier when I found out but was
hesitant because it's quite off topic. The first thing I ever read of
Silverstein's was "The Giving Tree", one of the most beautiful books ever written,
IMNSHO, and remains my favourite. There aren't many 'celebrities' that I would
shed tears for upon their deaths but Silverstein is certainly one of those people
that moved me greatly in life and I can't help but mourn his passing.
Asa
sexist viewpoint. Everything for the male. Female gives all. Asa
In article <3737D070...@innocent.com>, Rowan Mayfair
<row...@innocent.com> wrote:
>BobKinDC wrote:
>
>> Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
>> cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
Lisa
wrote:
>If you will examine THE GIVING TREE closely, you may see that it is a very
>sexist viewpoint. Everything for the male. Female gives all. Asa
True, but it was worse than that. It promoted the idea that it's good
to be a willing victim. Sexism is bad. That's far worse.
But I liked a lot of his works. In "Where the Sidewalk Ends...", he's
got a version of The Little Engine That Could which is way better for
kids (I think) than the standard one.
His A,B,Z book, though... <shudder> Any child that reads it is ruined
for good.
Lisa
Bear
>
> On 11 May 1999 05:47:11 GMT, bobk...@aol.comspamblok (BobKinDC)
> wrote:
>
> >Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
> >cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
> >
> >one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> >Attic":
> >
> >If you have to do the dishes (such an awful, dreadful bore)
> >If you have to do the dished ('stead of going to the store)
> >If you have to do the dishes AND YOU DROP ONE ON THE FLOOR...
> >...Maybe they won't let you do the dishes anymore!
> >-----------------------------------
> >
>
> cartoonist in Playboy?
That's him. He also wrote very ribald stuff in those days, too.
I find it odd that 99.44 percent of the comments on him in here are as a
kiddy writer.
--
Bear
Bear
Bob Ward wrote:
>
> On 11 May 1999 05:47:11 GMT, bobk...@aol.comspamblok (BobKinDC)
> wrote:
> >A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
> >one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> >Attic":
> >
> >If you have to do the dishes (such an awful, dreadful bore)
<snip>
> Am I misremembering, or wasn't Shel Silverstein once a semi-regular
> cartoonist in Playboy?
And writer, as noted in my other post.
Meanwhile I found the lyrics to a song of Silverstein's I remember, and
the titles of the other tracks on the album on which it appeared follow:
FREAKIN' AT THE FREAKERS BALL
C'mon babies… grease your lips…
Put on your hats, and swing your hips.
Don't forget to bring your whips.
We're goin' to the Freakers Ball.
Blow your whistle…bang your gong --
Roll up somethin' to take along.
Feels so good… it must be wrong –
Freakin' at the Freakers Ball.
All the fags and dikes, they're boogyin' together --
Leather freaks dressed in all kinds of leather.
The greatest of the Sadists and the Masochists, too,
Screamin' "Please hit me" and "I'll hit you".
F.B.I. dancin' with the junkies –
All the Straights swingin' with the Funkies
'Cross the floor and up the wall
Freakin' at the Freakers Ball.
Everybody is lovin' each other --
Brother with sister… son with mother.
Smear my body up with butter,
And take me to the Freakers Ball.
So pass that roach and pour the wine --
I'll kiss yours and you'll kiss mine.
I'm gonna boogie til I go blind --
Freakin' at the Freakers Ball.
Black ones, white ones, yellow and red ones --
Necropheliacs lookin' for dead ones.
The greatest of the Sadists and the Masochists, too --
Screaming' "Please hit me" and "I'll hit you".
Everybody ballin' in batches --
Pyromaniacs strikin' matches.
I'm gonna itch me where it scratches --
Freakin' at the Freakers Ball, y'all
Freakin' at the Freakers Ball.
==
Cuts from the album "Freakin' At The Freakers Ball":
Side 1
1.Thumbsucker
2.I Got Stoned and I Missed It
3.Sahra Cynthia Sylvia Stout Would Not Take the Garbage Out
4.Stacy Brown Got Two
5.Polly in a Porny
6.Freakin' at the Freakers Ball
Side 2
1.All About You
2.Don't Give a Dose to the One You Love Most
3.The Peace Proposal
4.Masochistic Baby
5.Liberated Lady 1999
6.The Man Who Got No Sign
--
Bear
Lalbert1
writes:
>On Tue, 11 May 1999 10:53:44 GMT, lisabeth*@bigfoot.com (Lisa) wrote:
>
>> His A,B,Z book, though... <shudder> Any child that reads it is ruined
>> for good.
>
>Hehe, it was a little dated by the time I read it, but it made me (as
>an adult) giggle.
>
>
Dated? What's dated about:
"E is for Ernie. Ernie is the genie who lives in the ceiling. Ernie loves
eggs. Take a nice fresh egg and throw it as high as you can and yell 'Catch,
Ernie. Catch the egg!'. And Ernie will reach down and catch the egg."
or:
"B is for baby. See the baby. The baby is fat. The baby is pink. The baby
can cry. The baby can laugh. See the baby play. Play, baby, play. Pretty,
pretty, baby. Mommy loves the baby more than she loves you."
or:
"T is for TV. See the nice TV. The TV is warm, the TV is funny, the TV is
sad, the TV loves you. Do you know there little elves who live inside the TV.
The elves can dance, the elves can sing, the elves can tell joke. If you take
daddy's hammer and break open the TV you will see the funny little elves. What
will you name them?"
Les
deepstblu
>
> Bob Ward wrote:
> > Am I misremembering, or wasn't Shel Silverstein once a semi-regular
> > cartoonist in Playboy?
>
> That's him. He also wrote very ribald stuff in those days, too.
>
> I find it odd that 99.44 percent of the comments on him in here are as a
> kiddy writer.
It came to overshadow everything else, including some major successes as
a songwriter ("A Boy Named Sue" for Johnny Cash, "The Cover of 'Rolling
Stone'" for Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show).
John M. Gamble
gave different ages and different years of birth (no, one does
not imply the other, the birth years differed by two, the ages
differed by one). No month or day was given in either obit.
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
--
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Seanette Blaylock
wrote:
>ObPonder: I hate almost all poetry (and so far don't get on very well
>at dinner parties with 9 out of 10 "professional poets"), but "Where
>the Sidewalk Ends" I loved. Is there some sort of "Poetry for
>Dummies" somewhere which breaks down types of poetry? Maybe I can
>pigeonhole my preferences. Not that I normally advocate too much
>scrutinizing of writing. God knows I'm still bitter about having to
>ruin perfectly good books in high school because the English teacher
>wanted us to ruthlessly hunt down examples of what the school said was
>symbolism, naturalism, whatever. And naturally we couldn't deviate
>from this with our own theories.
Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
Seanette Blaylock
Reply to sean...@spammers.drop.dead.impulse.net
[make obvious correction]
Wildstar
wrote:
>If you will examine THE GIVING TREE closely, you may see that it is a very
>sexist viewpoint. Everything for the male. Female gives all. Asa
In all the times I read that, I never stumbled across that point.
Thanks for pushing your agenda on to a wonderfull story, I hope
you're happy, now that you've ruined the story for me.
Lisa
My favorite was P is for Pony. If you cut out the coupon on this page
and give it to your parents, they'll have to buy you a pony. <grin>
Just a paraphrase; my ex kept my copy.
Lisa
>
>Les
>
Rowan Mayfair
Wildstar wrote:
Don't let it ruin the story for you. It's just one person's opinion and should
do nothing to detract from your love of the book. I read it the first time
before I was ten years old and was so moved by this story. I never thought of
a 'sexist' angle to the book, not then, nor during any of the subsequent
readings. This book taught me about the beauty of unconditional love, the joy
there is in giving of yourself with no thought as to what you will get in
return, the danger of taking people in your life for granted, and letting them
take you for granted. If someone can so easily dismiss this book as 'sexist',
then I don't think they looked deep enough into the story. It's by no means a
happy story, it's not meant to be, it's told very simply and yet conveys so
much. I'll say it again, I think it's one of the most beautiful books ever
written. Someone chiming in about some 'sexist' angle to the story isn't going
to change my mind.
--
Tanja
Bailey Cameron
Sophelyn wrote:
> FWIW, this all happened to me in the 11th grade. Thanks to changing
> schools often as my family moved and taking a drama class somewhere
> along the line, I didn't take English in 10th or 12th. In the 10th
> grade I was (apparently) the only person not taking any English class,
> and as it happened all "homeroom" type events took place in English
> class. (class photos, yearbooks, locker assignments, etc.) I always
> hid in the bathroom during these times. While waiting, I would lock
> myself in a stall and read. Sometimes the events would go on all
> afternoon, which was great. (And while there is irony in the above
> story, I refuse to believe there is any symbolism!)
<English teacher voice>
Now, children, if you'll turn to page 50. Tommy, will you read the
above aloud? Thank you. Now you see, the fact that the author did
these things symbolizes the fact that she felt separate from the rest of
the school, that she's a loner and a misfit, in her own mind. Locking
herself in the stall is a metaphor, she had to force herself to stay,
because she wanted to go out and be with the other students. But she
*locked* the *door* to keep herself trapped in her own mind, and forced
to concentrate on what was before her, not the bleak reality of her high
school experience. Her self-imposed imprisonment was actually a
protection from the rejection of the outside world. The toilet
represents her descent into madness, as we'll see on page 54 when she flushes...
</English teacher voice>
Sorry, couldn't resist. :) I did the same thing. Was car-sick for 4
years because I read on the bus... Sheesh...
I think that "Literary Analysis" is supposed to teach us reasoning and
logic skills. All it taught me was how to B.S. my way through a term paper...
Bailey
Lalbert1
(Lisa) writes:
>On 11 May 1999 21:54:20 GMT, lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1) wrote:
>>"T is for TV. See the nice TV. The TV is warm, the TV is funny, the TV is
>>sad, the TV loves you. Do you know there little elves who live inside the
TV.
>>The elves can dance, the elves can sing, the elves can tell joke. If you
take
>>daddy's hammer and break open the TV you will see the funny little elves.
What
>>will you name them?"
>
>My favorite was P is for Pony. If you cut out the coupon on this page
>and give it to your parents, they'll have to buy you a pony. <grin>
>Just a paraphrase; my ex kept my copy.
>
>
Kept your ABZ book? Your ex is a rotter!. Here is the letter "P":
"P is for pony. See the pony. The pony lives in the gas tank of daddy's car.
He makes the car go. That is called 'horse power'. Maybe the pony is hungry.
Pour some nice sugar into the gas tank. Ponies love sugar. When daddy comes
home tell him you have fed the pony and maybe he will buy you a cowboy suit."
The coupon cutout was on another page and said, "Kids! Clip out this
certificate and bring it to your friendly neighborhood grocer and he will give
you, Absolutely Free... A REAL LIVE PONY."
And as a lagniappe, I offer you R:
"R is for red. The fire is red. The fire engine is red. The fireman's hat is
red. Does the fireman in the red hat come to your house in his red fire
engine? No? Too bad. The fireman only goes to places *where there is a
fire*."
Les
becky
So much so that I got a tattoo of the illustration for "Hug O' War" on my
leg. He will be missed.
--
-becky
remove "nospam" from return address to reply via email.
http://members.aol.com/cuervo9936
BobKinDC wrote in message <19990511014711...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66.
The
>cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
>
beagle dave
lisabeth*@bigfoot.com (Lisa) wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 1999 04:34:18 -0500, asas...@mindspring.com (Asa)
> wrote:
>
> >If you will examine THE GIVING TREE closely, you may see that it is a very
> >sexist viewpoint. Everything for the male. Female gives all. Asa
>
> True, but it was worse than that. It promoted the idea that it's good
> to be a willing victim. Sexism is bad. That's far worse.
>
what a load of hooey...my God is all literature filtered through some
crappy PC screening process these days?
dave
--
Sourdough baker..home brewer and
Lumber Cartel Unit Number 1499 (tinlc) Help take a bite out of spam
Remove "pants" to reply
Greg Goss
>Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
>cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
>
>A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
>one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
>Attic":
Is this the same guy who did all those (pseudo?) autobiographical
cartoons in Playboy when I was a teenager (and thus wasn't reading any
such thing)?
I think that the name matches and the picture looks as close as I can
tell (I don't recognize faces well), but nobody I talk to can imagine
him doing Playboy. Am I thinking of a different guy with the same
name? Or just completely confused?
Bear
> ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
>
> Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
> it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
Just didn't like English lit, eh?
--
Bear
Bear
>
> bobk...@aol.comspamblok (BobKinDC) wrote:
>
> >Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
> >cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
> >
> >A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
> >one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> >Attic":
>
> Is this the same guy who did all those (pseudo?) autobiographical
> cartoons in Playboy when I was a teenager (and thus wasn't reading any
> such thing)?
Yes.
I don't know about the autobiographical part, but he was a regular
contributer to Playboy, and he was an adult writer, too, not just a
cartoonist.
--
Bear
fastrada
>
> bobk...@aol.comspamblok (BobKinDC) wrote:
>
> >Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
> >cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
> >
> >A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
> >one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> >Attic":
>
> Is this the same guy who did all those (pseudo?) autobiographical
> cartoons in Playboy when I was a teenager (and thus wasn't reading any
> such thing)?
>
> tell (I don't recognize faces well), but nobody I talk to can imagine
> him doing Playboy. Am I thinking of a different guy with the same
> name? Or just completely confused?
Yessiree bobby, that's the same Shel Silverstein. He also wrote the
classic goofball songs "A Boy Named Sue," a cult classic for Johnny
Cash, and "On The Cover Of The Rolling Stone," a classic song for Dr.
Hook.
Regards,
Joe
--
"i don't have to put up with this shabby crap--i'm a
journalist!" --transmetropolitan
deepstblu
>
> bobk...@aol.comspamblok (BobKinDC) wrote:
>
> >Shel Silverstein was found dead in his Key West home yesterday, age 66. The
> >cause of death hasn't yet been determined.
> >
> >A prolific cartoonist, lyricist and children's book author, Silverstein penned
> >one of my favorite children's poems of all time in his book, "A Light in the
> >Attic":
>
> Is this the same guy who did all those (pseudo?) autobiographical
> cartoons in Playboy when I was a teenager (and thus wasn't reading any
> such thing)?
>
> I think that the name matches and the picture looks as close as I can
> tell (I don't recognize faces well), but nobody I talk to can imagine
> him doing Playboy. Am I thinking of a different guy with the same
> name? Or just completely confused?
doing him justice:
http://www.playboy.com/features/silverstein/
dan
<snip.
>>wanted us to ruthlessly hunt down examples of what the school said was
>>symbolism, naturalism, whatever. And naturally we couldn't deviate
>>from this with our own theories.
>
>Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
>gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
my address has to be altered to reply
remove the word "nospam"
Lisa
Sophomore year in high school, we read Huck Finn (or Tom Sawyer, I
can't remember for sure). The first thing we did was read the preface
to the book, in which Twain makes it as clear as he possibly can that
he wrote the book as *entertainment*. He explicitly mentions English
teachers who insist on trying to read meanings into every damned
thing.
The very first thing my teacher did was to ask us what we thought he
meant by that. Honest. And she wasn't kidding.
Lisa
Lisa
>In article <373926bb...@news.netvision.net.il>, lisabeth*@bigfoot.com
>(Lisa) writes:
>
>>On 11 May 1999 21:54:20 GMT, lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1) wrote:
>
>>>"T is for TV. See the nice TV. The TV is warm, the TV is funny, the TV is
>>>sad, the TV loves you. Do you know there little elves who live inside the
>TV.
>>>The elves can dance, the elves can sing, the elves can tell joke. If you
>take
>>>daddy's hammer and break open the TV you will see the funny little elves.
>What
>>>will you name them?"
>>
>>My favorite was P is for Pony. If you cut out the coupon on this page
>>and give it to your parents, they'll have to buy you a pony. <grin>
>>Just a paraphrase; my ex kept my copy.
>>
>>
>
>Kept your ABZ book? Your ex is a rotter!. Here is the letter "P":
>
>"P is for pony. See the pony. The pony lives in the gas tank of daddy's car.
>He makes the car go. That is called 'horse power'. Maybe the pony is hungry.
>Pour some nice sugar into the gas tank. Ponies love sugar. When daddy comes
>home tell him you have fed the pony and maybe he will buy you a cowboy suit."
>
>The coupon cutout was on another page and said, "Kids! Clip out this
>certificate and bring it to your friendly neighborhood grocer and he will give
>you, Absolutely Free... A REAL LIVE PONY."
Thanks. <grin>
>And as a lagniappe, I offer you R:
>
>"R is for red. The fire is red. The fire engine is red. The fireman's hat is
>red. Does the fireman in the red hat come to your house in his red fire
>engine? No? Too bad. The fireman only goes to places *where there is a
>fire*."
He was a sick man of amazing talent. <grin>
Lisa
Greg Goss
>Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
>gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
Isaac Asimov's ("beautiful blonde blue-eyed") daughter was taking a
college-level course on reading SF. At one point they were studying
an Asimov story, so Robin (big ? there?) brought Dad along for the fun
of it. This was before his face became famous from TV and the
magazine that Davis started under his name and face in the late
seventies.
At one point the professor is going on about the intricate symbolism
and deep meaning of some Asimov story. Asimov stood to contest the
point, and the professor insisted that the author usually know nothing
of what goes into a story.
Greg Goss
>ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
>
>Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
>it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
I've already related that story elsewhere in the thread. Robin Asimov
(first name uncertain) dragged Dad to her college course once to see
how he interacted with the prof. The prof insisted that authors know
Greg Goss
>In all the times I read that, I never stumbled across that point.
>Thanks for pushing your agenda on to a wonderfull story, I hope
>you're happy, now that you've ruined the story for me.
I would like "This Perfect Day" so much more without the rape scene.
He rapes her. She later thanks him for the whole process that included
the rape.
And this book was used as one of the choices for Grade 11 when I was
in Grade 11. (Our class took Brave New World from that set of
choices)
Seanette Blaylock
wrote:
>>>wanted us to ruthlessly hunt down examples of what the school said was
>>>symbolism, naturalism, whatever. And naturally we couldn't deviate
>>>from this with our own theories.
>>gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>>treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>>half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
>Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
>it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
*That*, I could have enjoyed. :-)
I had some "teachers" who came up with such bizarre stuff [mercifully,
I've apparently blocked it out over the years] that I wondered what
they were on at the time.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
> Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
> it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
I remeber a cute shaggy dog story about a physics prof who invents a time
machine. He's telling the story to the local Shakespare proffessor, who
begs to let him meet the Bard.
The physicist has to beg off, saying that Sakespear would be too
embarassed... he had been brought foreward and had taken the class and the
prof. had failed the bard.
There's also _Back_to_School_ where Kurt Vonnegut writes a paer on his own
book and the teacher tells Rodnet Dangerfield that his ghost writer knows
nothing about Vonnegut....
The pomosity of Engish Teacher is an old staple...
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Shawn Wilson
Greg Goss <gg...@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:37437a9b...@news.direct.ca...
> seanette.spam...@impulse.net (Seanette Blaylock) wrote:
>
> >Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
> >gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
> >treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
> >half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
>
> college-level course on reading SF.
Ya know, he mentioned his daughter a lot. But why did he mention his son so
rarely?
Bailey Cameron
ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote:
> The pomosity of Engish Teacher is an old staple...
I'll take English teachers over "Art Appreciation" teachers, and their
ilk, any day. I went to the Centre Pompideau in Paris, and there was a
huge square of floor that was sunken about 25 feet (I could be wrong, I
was shorter then). On the concrete floor of the sunken area was a HUGE
yellow circle made of pollen. The "art" was called "Carre du Pollen"
(square of pollen). It was not art, it was an allergy attack waiting to
happen! What the hell?!? I HATE modern art, it's crap. There is
nothing "lonely and obscure" about a black dot on a red canvas - I could
produce this garbage in 10 seconds with a good art program and a
computer and a printer. Ferchrissakes. And these people read "meaning"
and "symbolism" into this shite, and they write books about it and
debate about it, and argue about it at dinner parties. Why not just
concede that Monet wanted to paint the water lilies because he thought
they were pretty - and that the modern artist who paints a circle and
calls it "art" is just trying to rip off the people who think they have
"culture". Don't even get me started on modern sculpture. It started
with Van Gogh and went south from there... Ack.
Bailey "and this from a girl whose Mom was an art history major" Cameron
Marie Martinek
>On Wed, 12 May 1999 03:45:48 GMT, seanette.spam...@impulse.net
> (Seanette Blaylock) wrote:
><snip.
>>>symbolism, naturalism, whatever. And naturally we couldn't deviate
>>>from this with our own theories.
>>
>>gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>>treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>>half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
>
>
>Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something
> like,"gee wizz teach,
>it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
Isaac Asimov once did that; sat in on a class in which one of his stories was
being analyzed. He went up to the prof afterwards and said that he really
*hadn't* put in all those symbols and metaphors, and teacher replied "just
because you're the author, what makes you think you know what's going on the
story?"
Sort of a slap at current pedagogy, but true, as well. Symbolism happens in
the mind of the reader (kinda like Freudianism). The problem is when the
symbols get cast in concrete -- "This is the Proper symbolism to get out of
this story, any additional or different is Incorrect".
Marie Martinek
P. O. Box 172
Northbrook, IL 60065
mv-ma...@nwu.edu
Alan Morgan
Shawn Wilson <shawn....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Greg Goss <gg...@direct.ca> wrote in message
>news:37437a9b...@news.direct.ca...
>> seanette.spam...@impulse.net (Seanette Blaylock) wrote:
>>
>> >gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>> >treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>> >half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
>>
>> college-level course on reading SF.
>
>
>Ya know, he mentioned his daughter a lot. But why did he mention his son so
>rarely?
He says in one volume of his autobiography that his son lacked his father's
intelligence but possessed his father's inability to get along with
authority figures and thus had a rather difficult time of things. Unlike
his vivacious, intelligent, and (I'll go along with the good doctor on
this) attactive daughter.
Alan
Mike Koenecke
Morgan) allegedly wrote:
>>Ya know, he mentioned his daughter a lot. But why did he mention his son so
>>rarely?
>
>He says in one volume of his autobiography that his son lacked his father's
>intelligence but possessed his father's inability to get along with
>authority figures and thus had a rather difficult time of things. Unlike
>his vivacious, intelligent, and (I'll go along with the good doctor on
>this) attactive daughter.
His son taught at Haverford when I was there (77-81). Not exactly a
dimwit. I rather suspect he and his father were often at odds,
resulting in "The Good Doctor's" biased appraisal of his abilities.
Having read a bit of Isaac Asimov's descriptions of his relationship
with *his* father (pretty formal and distant), I think that's probably
the case.
---
Mike Koenecke
to reply, change "nowhere" to "cyberramp"
Rowan Mayfair
Shawn Wilson wrote:
> Greg Goss <gg...@direct.ca> wrote in message
> news:37437a9b...@news.direct.ca...
> > seanette.spam...@impulse.net (Seanette Blaylock) wrote:
> >
> > >Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
> > >gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
> > >treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
> > >half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
> >
> > Isaac Asimov's ("beautiful blonde blue-eyed") daughter was taking a
> > college-level course on reading SF.
>
> Ya know, he mentioned his daughter a lot. But why did he mention his son so
> rarely?
I call it the "Kathie Lee Syndrome" [1]. I wasn't aware that it was shared by
anyone else.
--
Tanja
1. Meaning that she *always* drones on and on and on about Cody and rarely, if
ever, about her daughter (Cassidy, is it ?).
David Harmon
lisabeth*@bigfoot.com (Lisa) wrote:
>
>Sophomore year in high school, we read Huck Finn (or Tom Sawyer, I
>can't remember for sure). The first thing we did was read the preface
>to the book, in which Twain makes it as clear as he possibly can that
>he wrote the book as *entertainment*. He explicitly mentions English
>teachers who insist on trying to read meanings into every damned
>thing.
My sophomore year in high school, we read _Through the Looking Glass_.
Mrs. Whalen tried to give us her explanation and interpretation of
"Jabberwocky". She didn't do as good a job of it as Humpty Dumpty.
I think I was the only one in class that found this unbelievably funny,
but since we all kept quiet I might have been wrong.
Mark Brader
>> [Isaac Asimov] says in one volume of his autobiography that his son
>> lacked his father's intelligence but possessed his father's inability
>> to get along with authority figures and thus had a rather difficult time
>> of things. Unlike his vivacious, intelligent, and (I'll go along with
>> the good doctor on this) attactive daughter.
Mike Koenecke writes:
> His son taught at Haverford when I was there (77-81). Not exactly a
> dimwit.
Mike, rather than Isaac Asimov's son David Asimov, could you be thinking
of Isaac's brother Stan's stepson Dan Asimov, who is now a mathematician?
> I rather suspect he and his father were often at odds,
> resulting in "The Good Doctor's" biased appraisal of his abilities.
Well, what Isaac wrote (in about 1991) in "I. Asimov" was that David had
*normal* intelligence, but "could not keep a job because he could not get
along with his fellow employees". This doesn't sound like someone who
was able to teach at a college for four years. Isaac also says:
# When he was still in his teens, it was apparent to me that he was not
# going to be able to support himself in mature life and so I took
# measures to take care of him by setting up a trust fund for him, so
# that he is free of economic worries.
He then describes David as a "gentleman of leisure" who lives off his
father's support and seems to enjoy being alone with his TV and VCR.
But later... see <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdtv/0309/293021.html>.
I think I'm glad Isaac didn't live to see that. (There seems to be nothing
on the web to say what happened subsequent to David's arraignment.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto \ The real trouble with this world of ours is... that it
msbr...@interlog.com \ is nearly reasonable, but not quite. --Chesterton
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Keith Rickert
>dan <ride...@shorenospam.net> wrote:
>> ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
>> Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
>> it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
>I remeber a cute shaggy dog story about a physics prof who invents a time
>machine. He's telling the story to the local Shakespare proffessor, who
>begs to let him meet the Bard.
>The physicist has to beg off, saying that Sakespear would be too
>embarassed... he had been brought foreward and had taken the class and the
>prof. had failed the bard.
To join this with the posts about Asimov's own experience with
this, I should point out that the above is actually a published
Asimov story (The Immortal Bard, I have it in at least a couple
of collections).
Keith
--
Keith Rickert | "Imprisoned for a crime I didn't commit.
ke...@eve.cchem.berkeley.edu | Attempted murder. Now honestly, what is that?
rick...@netcom.com | Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted
ke...@imppig.caltech.edu | chemistry?" Sideshow Bob, The Simpsons
Mike Koenecke
Brader) allegedly wrote:
>Alan Morgan writes:
>>> [Isaac Asimov] says in one volume of his autobiography that his son
>>> lacked his father's intelligence but possessed his father's inability
>>> to get along with authority figures and thus had a rather difficult time
>>> of things. Unlike his vivacious, intelligent, and (I'll go along with
>>> the good doctor on this) attactive daughter.
>
>Mike Koenecke writes:
>> His son taught at Haverford when I was there (77-81). Not exactly a
>> dimwit.
>
>Mike, rather than Isaac Asimov's son David Asimov, could you be thinking
>of Isaac's brother Stan's stepson Dan Asimov, who is now a mathematician?
Whoops. You're right, it was Dan Asimov.
>
>> I rather suspect he and his father were often at odds,
>> resulting in "The Good Doctor's" biased appraisal of his abilities.
>
>Well, what Isaac wrote (in about 1991) in "I. Asimov" was that David had
>*normal* intelligence, but "could not keep a job because he could not get
>along with his fellow employees". This doesn't sound like someone who
>was able to teach at a college for four years. Isaac also says:
>
># When he was still in his teens, it was apparent to me that he was not
># going to be able to support himself in mature life and so I took
># measures to take care of him by setting up a trust fund for him, so
># that he is free of economic worries.
>
>He then describes David as a "gentleman of leisure" who lives off his
>father's support and seems to enjoy being alone with his TV and VCR.
>
>But later... see <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdtv/0309/293021.html>.
>I think I'm glad Isaac didn't live to see that. (There seems to be nothing
>on the web to say what happened subsequent to David's arraignment.)
---
Margaret Kane Schoen
Bailey Cameron wrote:
Okay, I don't want to get into a whole defense of modern art here (actually
abstract art is what you seem to be griping about) but, the thing you want
to remember when you look at it is basically the same point you want to
remember with modern literature: Maybe it is crap. Wait around a hundred
years or so, then we'll know.
As for "I could do that," yes, you probably could, but they did it first. I
could write a string of gibberish with no punctuation, it doesn't make me
James Joyce. Some times the art is considered important because it changed
what was going on, and the way people saw things. If its something new,
that's never been done before, it can be important art, even if by itself
it's not really that good. The same thing is true in literature -- I'm sure
there are books that changed what was going on in the world, or in
literature, that, looking back now, aren't really that great on their own.
[For instance, I find almost all of Virginia Woolf boring as hell.] But
their influence can't be ignored.
As for this: "why not just concede that Monet wanted to paint the water
lilies because he thought they were pretty." Monet was actually pretty
public about what he was doing. Yes, he used the lilies in his garden
because he thought they were pretty, but there was other stuff going on. He
was playing with light, trying to get you to see that the way the light hits
an image changes the way we view it. And some of his later paintings, where
he closes in on a particular flower or waterscape, are dramatic departures
of the art of the time: they were landscapes without any horizon or
reference point for the viewer, almost abstract. The MFA here in Boston
recently had an exhibit of his that had some of his last works, these
enormous water lilies paintings. When you stood there surrounded by the
works, in the way he meant them to be shown, its obvious that he wasn't just
trying to paint something pretty to go with the couch.
Margaret "this from a girl who's mother is an art teacher" Kane Schoen
Bailey Cameron
Margaret Kane Schoen wrote:
<snip>
Well, I'm glad somebody likes it...
> [For instance, I find almost all of Virginia Woolf boring as hell.]
ObVirginia Woolf story: I read "To the Lighthouse" in high school, and
I was having a helluva hard time with it. I couldn't get past the
style, it drove me NUTS. It's late fall, just starting to get cool, and
we had just remodeled our house. We installed a fireplace in the living
room. I decided that a little classical music, a cup of cocoa, and a
roaring fire would get me into the mood to tackle "great" works of
literature. I was home alone at the time. For the next 2-1/2 hours, I
poured over the text, reading diligently. As time went on, it began to
make more and more sense. At the 2-1/2 hour mark, I was actually
*UNDERSTANDING* it (will wonders never cease).
My parents got home from wherever they were, and my step-dad immediately
started sniffing the air, "I smell something funny," he said. He looked
at the fireplace and realized that I hadn't opened the flue, and I had
been carbon monoxide poisoning myself for almost 3 hours!
To this day, I can't read V.W. unless I'm high on fumes of some sort...
:)
Bailey
dan
>dan wrote:
>
>> ever notice that they use the works of long dead authors?
>>
>> Wouldn't make them look too good if the author showed up and said something like,"gee wizz teach,
>> it's just a story I though I'd share, Lighten up!"
>
>Just didn't like English lit, eh?
So much so that I didn't take it, ever.
Wildstar
wrote:
>
>Wildstar wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 May 1999 04:34:18 -0500, asas...@mindspring.com (Asa)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >If you will examine THE GIVING TREE closely, you may see that it is a very
>> >sexist viewpoint. Everything for the male. Female gives all. Asa
>>
>> In all the times I read that, I never stumbled across that point.
>> Thanks for pushing your agenda on to a wonderfull story, I hope
>> you're happy, now that you've ruined the story for me.
>
>Don't let it ruin the story for you. It's just one person's opinion and should
>do nothing to detract from your love of the book. I read it the first time
>before I was ten years old and was so moved by this story. I never thought of
>a 'sexist' angle to the book, not then, nor during any of the subsequent
>readings. This book taught me about the beauty of unconditional love, the joy
>there is in giving of yourself with no thought as to what you will get in
>return, the danger of taking people in your life for granted, and letting them
>take you for granted. If someone can so easily dismiss this book as 'sexist',
>then I don't think they looked deep enough into the story. It's by no means a
>happy story, it's not meant to be, it's told very simply and yet conveys so
>much. I'll say it again, I think it's one of the most beautiful books ever
>written. Someone chiming in about some 'sexist' angle to the story isn't going
>to change my mind.
I know, but it bugs me that there's always someone out there to claim
that something you really love is sexist, or stupid, or racist, or
something.
JmG
>I know, but it bugs me that there's always someone out there to claim
>that something you really love is sexist, or stupid, or racist, or
>something.
That's because if they were to look into the mirror they would see someone
sexist, stupid or racist.
Peace.
J
--
[www.bongoboy.com]
Wildstar
>seanette.spam...@impulse.net (Seanette Blaylock) wrote:
>
>>Happened to you too? I graduated from high school in 1987 and still
>>gag at the thought of reading some of the books that got this
>>treatment in my classes. Personally, I always doubted the author had
>>half the stuff in mind the "teachers" claimed was in there. :-)
>
>Isaac Asimov's ("beautiful blonde blue-eyed") daughter was taking a
>college-level course on reading SF. At one point they were studying
>an Asimov story, so Robin (big ? there?) brought Dad along for the fun
>of it. This was before his face became famous from TV and the
>magazine that Davis started under his name and face in the late
>seventies.
>
>At one point the professor is going on about the intricate symbolism
>and deep meaning of some Asimov story. Asimov stood to contest the
>point, and the professor insisted that the author usually know nothing
>of what goes into a story.
Sheesh, what would you do without me: Robyn.
Goalie2
(Wildstar) wrote:
You all, of course, know that Shel Silverstein was a pediphile?
Look closely at drawings in most of his books (he draws them himself).
A lot of them contain penises. This is not a lie. They are very
obvious once you see them.
JmG
>You all, of course, know that Shel Silverstein was a pediphile?
What, no spell checker?
>Look closely at drawings in most of his books (he draws them himself).
>A lot of them contain penises. This is not a lie. They are very
>obvious once you see them.
So, humor me here: What do penises have to do with pedophilia? So then, are the
folks who buy Playgirl pedophiles too? Oh my god! And I thought only Priests and
my Uncle Ed were like that!
J
--
100% commercial free! [www.bongoboy.com]
Asa
as you did until a female friend pointed out the truth. Prior to that
time it was one of my favorite books.
I sat down to rewrite the story from the boy's viewpoint. It was worse.
So, I named it: The Taking Boy. Then, I sat down and wrote
THE HEALTHY GIVING TREE
Copyright © 1991 Asa Sparks, 6405 Camelot Court, Montgomery AL 36117
Once there was a boy ... and he was loved by a tree.
And every day the boy would come. and he would gather her leaves and make
them into crowns and play king of the forest, or he would make them into
garlands and play Olympic athletes.
He would climb up her trunk and swing from her branches and eat apples.
And they would play hide-and-go-seek.
And when he was tired, he would sleep in her shade. And the boy loved the
tree ... very, very much.
And the tree was happy.
But time went by.
And the boy grew older.
And the tree was often alone for we grow to walk on our own and alone.
Then one day the boy came to the tree and the tree said, "Come, Boy, Come
and climb up my trunk and swing from my branches and eat apples and play
in my shade and be happy."
"I am too big to climb and play," said the boy. "I want to buy things and
have fun. I want some money. Can you give me some money?"
"I'm sorry," said the tree, "but I have no money. I have only leaves and
apples. Take SOME of my apples, Boy, for you are growing and need to
learn. My other friends will share some apples with you. Eat some
apples. Plant the seeds so there will be more apple trees. Take the rest
and sell them in the city. Then you will have money.
And so the boy climbed the tree and gathered some of her apples and some
from the other trees and carried them away.
And the tree was happy for the boy was learning.
But the boy stayed away for a long time, and the tree was sad for she
missed him.
And then one day the boy came back and the tree felt joy and she said,
"Come, Boy, climb up my trunk and swing from my branches and be happy."
"I will climb for a little while, but," said the boy. "I want a house to
keep me warm," he said. "I want a wife and I want children, and so I need
a house. Can you help me get a house?"
"I have no house," said the tree. "The forest is my house, but you may
cut off a few of my lower branches and use some of those dried limbs on
the ground from me and the other trees and build a house.
And so the boy cut off a few of her lower branches and picked up the dried
limbs from the ground and carried them away to build his house.
And the tree was happy - and proud.
But the boy stayed away for a long time. And when he came back he thanked
the tree for her help and the tree was happy to see him again.
"Come, Boy," she whispered, "come and play."
"I will play for a little while, but," said the boy. "I want a boat that
will take me to see things I have never seen before. Can you help me get
a boat?"
"Over there is another tree that was uprooted during a storm. Cut off the
trunk and make a boat," said the tree. "Then you can sail away and see
other parts of the world."
And so the boy cut off the trunk from the nearby fallen tree and made a
boat and sailed away.
And the tree was happy and proud he was learning but she missed him.
After a long time the boy came back again.
"I am sorry, Boy," said the tree, "but I have few apples left to give you,
or help you with - my apples are gone."
"A few applies is all I need. The tree I planted from your seeds are now
bearing fruit.," said the boy.
"My branches are too high for you to reach," said the tree. "So, you
cannot swing on them -"
"The young trees have lower branches and I a swing there for my
grandchildren." said the boy.
"I am sorry," sighed the tree. "I wish that I had something else to teach
you ... but I have nothing left. I am just an old tree. I am sorry ..."
"You¹ve given me so much already. I don't need very much now," said the
boy, "just a quiet place to sit, rest, and enjoy the beauty of the
forest.²
"Well," said the tree, straightening herself up as much as she could,
"well, an old tree is good for sitting and resting. Come, Boy, sit down
beside me. Sit down and rest in my shade and look at what we have
accomplished together."
And the boy did and contemplated on how much he had learned from and owed
to the tree.
And the tree was happy they had grown up together as they were now reaching
The End.
Copyright © 1991 Asa Sparks, 6405 Camelot Court, Montgomery AL 36117
--
Asa,
Peripheral Visionary
Helge Moulding
>THE HEALTHY GIVING TREE
That's the way the damn story should have been written in the
first place. I'm afraid I was much too old and cynical when I
first encountered it to enjoy it at all. I thought it was a
lame excuse for letting other people take advantage of you, and
I thought the boy was a selfish little twit.
I like your version much better. But I'm wondering if the
original _Giving Tree_ wasn't supposed to evoke exactly that
response - you know, not a lesson for trees, but a lesson for
boys?
--
Helge "The right lesson learned last?" Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
Lisa
<hmou...@excite.com> wrote:
>Asa wrote in message ...
>>THE HEALTHY GIVING TREE
>
>That's the way the damn story should have been written in the
>first place. I'm afraid I was much too old and cynical when I
>first encountered it to enjoy it at all. I thought it was a
>lame excuse for letting other people take advantage of you, and
>I thought the boy was a selfish little twit.
>
>I like your version much better. But I'm wondering if the
>original _Giving Tree_ wasn't supposed to evoke exactly that
>response - you know, not a lesson for trees, but a lesson for
>boys?
For some reason, Asa's post isn't showing up on my server. Or on
DejaNews. Can you repost the story?
Thanks,
Lisa
Asa
THE HEALTHY GIVING TREE
But time went by.
"The young trees have lower branches and I can build a swing there for my
grandchildren." said the boy.
"I am sorry," sighed the tree. "I wish that I had something else to teach
you ... but I have nothing left. I am just an old tree. I am sorry ..."
"Youąve given me so much already. I don't need very much now," said the
boy, "just a quiet place to sit, rest, and enjoy the beauty of the
forest.˛
"Well," said the tree, straightening herself up as much as she could,
"well, an old tree is good for sitting and resting. Come, Boy, sit down
beside me. Sit down and rest in my shade and look at what we have
accomplished together."
And the boy did and contemplated on how much he had learned from and owed
to the tree.
And the tree was happy they had grown up together as they were now reaching
The End.
>
>Copyright © 1991 Asa Sparks, 6405 Camelot Court, Montgomery AL 36117
>
Asa
Lisa
wrote:
>As per your request, the original posting:
>
>I regret that I ruined the story for you. Once I loved the story as much
>as you did until a female friend pointed out the truth. Prior to that
>time it was one of my favorite books.
>
>I sat down to rewrite the story from the boy's viewpoint. It was worse.
>So, I named it: The Taking Boy. Then, I sat down and wrote
>
>THE HEALTHY GIVING TREE
Thank you! This is the way it should have been written in the first
place.
Lisa