Life Skills
Dover Beach
Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing that
is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent housing).
Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life skills" to this
group. What life skills do you think are most important? What ones
could you teach?
--
Dover
Mary
Most important: money management - because the less money you have
the more important it is that you're careful; statistics - because so
much requires the ability to interpret what it means to say that (just
as an example) your child has a 5% chance of surviving non-Hodgkins
lymphoma without chemo and 90% chance of surviving if he has chemo;
cooking - which some people won't need, but anyone who's spending
money on fast food or prepackaged crap rather than cooking really
shouldn't be if money's tight.
I'm sure there's more that I haven't thought of yet.
Mary
Boron Elgar
wrote:
Reading, it's fundamental and the capability is not a given in many of
these situations Assuming there is provision for childcare, so some
serious learning can be undertaken, I'd teach computer skills, too.
ESL classes for anyone who is not fluent in English.
You can teach folks how to shop and cook, but a lot of that winds up
being limited by/dictated by food stamps and markets in the area and
the ability to schlep it all home.
Nice to be able to understand how to open and maintain a checking
account and use an ATM card, but most of these women will not have
enough spare funds to open an account with fees.
How to fill out a job allocation. How to behave at an interview. How
to acquire references. How to find adequate childcare. How to get
through the morass of public assistance of various sorts, too, so that
adequate food, housing, legal help and healthcare can be provided to
the woman and her children until she gets on her feet.
Boron
John Dean
First skill? How not to get knocked up yet again so they at least have a
breathing space to learn the other skills.
--
John Dean
Oxford
crazymaker...@gmail.com
How to get a feeling of empowerment, which would probably vary, case
by case. Perhaps acquiring life skills is what empowers people. In my
experience, there are people who feel like the world owes them for
something, who are entirely self-involved; then there are people that
have been traumatized to the point that they feel they deserve no good
thing that happens to them. I'll have to think on this more, because I
like the question...
Greg Goss
Rainy day savings. (do as I say, not as I do)
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Dover Beach
news:95221c98-7ed9-407d...@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:
Oh, interpreting basic statistics -- interesting. Basic money
management, yeah -- maybe you could combine that with computer skills,
by learning how to check online accounts. Except most of these folks
probably don't have bank accounts.
--
Dover
crazymaker...@gmail.com
I agree! Staying away from men until they get on their feet is a
fantastic idea! Because women are solely responsible for getting
knocked up, right? If there are any men in this housing, teach them to
just say no when a woman wants sex. LOL
Sometimes women don't get knocked up irresponsibly- sometimes they've
been married, etc.
I've been accused of overgeneralizing on this group- your post seems
sexist.
Dover Beach
news:gbgi4517kfjlka81q...@4ax.com:
Yeah, I really wish I could learn the stuff you list in the last
paragraph so I could tell others how to deal with it. It must be
possible.
I'd also add to the job skills that Woody Allen was right -- showing up
is 80% of everything. And if you're not going to show up, *call in* --
it's amazing how many people don't do that.
--
Dover
Dover Beach
news:7asufaF...@mid.individual.net:
Sometimes I think it's really more a matter of providing motivation to
not get knocked up. Sometimes very young women don't know about birth
control, but lots of times they do know -- they just don't deal with it.
--
Dover
Dover Beach
in
news:8050570d-6684-41e8...@k15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 29, 6:19�pm, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>> skills" to this group. �What life skills do you think are most
>> important? �What ones could you teach?
>>
>
> How to get a feeling of empowerment, which would probably vary, case
> by case. Perhaps acquiring life skills is what empowers people. In my
> experience, there are people who feel like the world owes them for
> something, who are entirely self-involved; then there are people that
> have been traumatized to the point that they feel they deserve no good
> thing that happens to them. I'll have to think on this more, because I
> like the question...
I think you're probably right, but I don't know how to teach
empowerment. Maybe it's the same way you deal with severely depressed
people -- cheerlead every little accomplishment. Today you made toast
before collapsing back into bed. Yay! Tomorrow maybe you'll put jam on
the toast before collapsing back into bed. Yay!
It kind of requires you to be there all the time, though.
--
Dover
crazymaker...@gmail.com
> "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote innews:7asufaF...@mid.individual.net:
I think you're right- motivation is the key for all of it. So I guess
they need to see the reward in learning the life skills. I live (and
Kim lives) in a place where it is the norm to utilize the system,
guilt free. It's sickening, but when you talk to these people, they
don't understand that it's wrong to be so dependent. I hope it goes
well for you...and them :>)
QueBarbara
wrote:
>
How receptive are they to the classes? Are they there by choice, or
there because they are ordered by the court/welfare office?
It might be good to focus on what can be taught to them to help their
children climb out the situation. You know, make the children get up
and be at school on time, do their homework, and graduate.
--
QueBarbara
AFCA Hussy Of The Year, 2009
Dover Beach
news:05ji45h6hpr5s8o0s...@4ax.com:
> On 29 Jun 2009 22:19:05 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>>important? What ones could you teach?
>
> How receptive are they to the classes? Are they there by choice, or
> there because they are ordered by the court/welfare office?
Good question. I guess I'll find out. I don't think they're ordered
there -- I think you have to apply to get in. They provide childcare,
education and job training, case management, homework help for the kids.
In fact homework help for the kids is another potential area for
volunteers. I'm scared of children, but I know how to do homework and
pass tests, so maybe I could be useful.
>
> It might be good to focus on what can be taught to them to help their
> children climb out the situation. You know, make the children get up
> and be at school on time, do their homework, and graduate.
>
Good points.
I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
"life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
--
Dover
David Friedman
QueBarbara <que.barb...@go-awaygmail.com> wrote:
Reading to the kids, encouraging them to learn to read, might be more
important.
Low cost nutritional cooking might be a useful skill as well.
Are there any sorts of employment that can be done at home that these
women could, with a little help, qualify for? I gather there are lots of
scams along those lines, but presumably also some real jobs.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
Dover Beach
news:ddfr-36C36A.1...@newsfarm.ams.highwinds-media.com:
>
> Are there any sorts of employment that can be done at home that these
> women could, with a little help, qualify for? I gather there are lots
> of scams along those lines, but presumably also some real jobs.
>
I guess, but I have yet to come across any that women with G.E.D.s could
qualify for. Maybe medical transcription. Most work-from-home gigs go
to the programmers/sysadmins/techies who have fairly advanced educations.
--
Dover
David Friedman
<9380920c-101c-48ee...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
"crazymaker...@gmail.com" <crazymaker...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I wouldn't assume that most single mothers got that way because of
contraceptive failure or ignorance.
One of the striking facts that a lot of people seem to ignore is that
the increased availability of contraception and abortion over the past
fifty years or so was accompanied by precisely the opposite of the
predicted effect. Both changes were supported in large part as ways of
reducing the number of "unwanted children," mostly meaning children of
single mothers. The changes were accompanied by an extraordinary
increase in the number of children of single mothers.
The obvious explanation is that they weren't unwanted--that in most
(although surely not all) cases the women had no serious objection to
getting pregnant. That might well be because they, like lots of other
people, wanted children, a baby to love and care for, and unfortunately
didn't have a man willing to marry them who they wanted to marry. In
some cases, depending on when and where, it might have been in part
because welfare was available for single mothers. In some cases it may
have been a way in which they hoped to tie the father more closely to
them. In most cases it was probably a combination of causes.
But if all those children were accidents, the number would have gone
down, not up, as contraception and abortion became more available.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>
>I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
>"life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
Bread baking.....staff of life, 'n all...
Mikko Peltoniemi
> Nice to be able to understand how to open and maintain a checking
> account and use an ATM card, but most of these women will not have
> enough spare funds to open an account with fees.
And also talk about credit cards, especially the interest part...
--
My Flickr Page
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25892068@N07/
Arthur
> On 29 Jun 2009 23:59:04 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
> >"life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
>
> Bread baking.....staff of life, 'n all...
I would imagine I could teach some literacy skills, including basic
computer literacy.
Dana Carpender
Cooking from basic, nutritious foods. Grocery shopping for the most
nutrition for the least money. Plus I'd love to see folks do the math
on how much it costs for the new TV if you save up the money and buy it
outright, versus how much it costs if you use a credit card and make
minimum payments, versus how much it costs to buy it by renting to own
-- versus how much it costs to find a used one someone else is selling
because they've gone broke buying stuff the expensive way.
Dana
Dana Carpender
> On 29 Jun 2009 22:19:05 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> How to fill out a job allocation. How to behave at an interview.
How to *dress* for an interview. Makes a huge difference, and you can
get decent, office-y clothes at thrift stores for not a lot of money.
But people need to know that costuming is a very powerful skill.
Dana
Dover Beach
> One of the striking facts that a lot of people seem to ignore is that
> the increased availability of contraception and abortion over the past
> fifty years or so was accompanied by precisely the opposite of the
> predicted effect. Both changes were supported in large part as ways of
> reducing the number of "unwanted children," mostly meaning children of
> single mothers. The changes were accompanied by an extraordinary
> increase in the number of children of single mothers.
>
> The obvious explanation is that they weren't unwanted--that in most
> (although surely not all) cases the women had no serious objection to
> getting pregnant. That might well be because they, like lots of other
> people, wanted children, a baby to love and care for, and
> unfortunately didn't have a man willing to marry them who they wanted
> to marry. In some cases, depending on when and where, it might have
> been in part because welfare was available for single mothers. In some
> cases it may have been a way in which they hoped to tie the father
> more closely to them. In most cases it was probably a combination of
> causes.
>
> But if all those children were accidents, the number would have gone
> down, not up, as contraception and abortion became more available.
>
I recognize that I'm going to get yelled at for this, but here's the
thing: mammals breed. It's what they do. Women get pregnant. Okay,
*I* didn't, because I carefully controlled my fertility, but I (and
Mary, and Veronique, and Que Barbara, and many of the other totally
anomalous women on this group) are, uh, totally anomalous. Women have
babies. It's a thing they do. I kind of wish all us overeducated,
hyper-rational types would quit excoriating women for getting pregnant,
because it's pointless. It's like scolding gay men for having sex with
other men. Could they refrain? Well, probably a few can, but a lot
can't, or just don't. Women have babies. They just do. Let's try to
stop screaming about it.
--
Dover
Dana Carpender
> On Jun 29, 6:40 pm, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>> Dover Beach wrote:
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>>> important? What ones could you teach?
>> First skill? How not to get knocked up yet again so they at least have a
>> breathing space to learn the other skills.
>> --
>> John Dean
>> Oxford
>
> I agree! Staying away from men until they get on their feet is a
> fantastic idea! Because women are solely responsible for getting
> knocked up, right?
Doesn't matter, for the sake of this discussion, where the
responsibility lies for getting women pregnant. It matters only where
the burden falls, and it falls overwhelmingly on women.
If there are any men in this housing, teach them to
> just say no when a woman wants sex. LOL
> Sometimes women don't get knocked up irresponsibly- sometimes they've
> been married, etc.
> I've been accused of overgeneralizing on this group- your post seems
> sexist.
Yet Kim writes of a not-uncommon phenomenon in Malone where mothers will
send out teenaged daughters to get pregnant so they can bring another
check into the household.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Well, and have had it drummed into their heads that decent women only
have sex if they're all swept away by the romance and passion of the
moment -- and if you go buy birth control beforehand, you're planning to
have sex in advance, which means you're not just swept away, which means
you're a slut. Which is why girls who go through abstinence-only ed and
make "purity pledges" aren't less likely to have sex than those who
don't, but are more likely to wind up pregnant.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Another important lesson: When it comes to money, put first things
first. I've told the story here of a young couple I knew who, when they
were living hand-to-mouth, sleeping on a mattress on the floor of a
cheap apartment where they had no furniture beyond plastic table and
chairs I lent them, and no lighting beyond one bulb in the ceiling in
the living room/kitchen and one in the bathroom, still spent money on a
television and extended digital cable. When he did a job for a friend
and made an extra $130, he brought home a Playstation -- and didn't pay
the rent. He could have bought his pregnant girlfriend a whole
apartment full of furniture for that money at the Goodwill.
An unfortunate number of the poor are poor because they spend their
money stupidly.
Dana
Dana Carpender
> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in
> news:ddfr-36C36A.1...@newsfarm.ams.highwinds-media.com:
>
>
>> Are there any sorts of employment that can be done at home that these
>> women could, with a little help, qualify for? I gather there are lots
>> of scams along those lines, but presumably also some real jobs.
>>
>
> I guess, but I have yet to come across any that women with G.E.D.s could
> qualify for. Maybe medical transcription.
Requires training, a computer, and a fair number of smarts.
Dana
Mike Paulsen
> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing that
> is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent housing).
> Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life skills" to this
> group. What life skills do you think are most important? What ones
> could you teach?
>
This may be a good resource, both the booklets and the knowledge of
which topics have been most important to others in similar situations.
(Disclaimer: I know the owners, but have no stake in their business.)
Dana Carpender
That women get pregnant doesn't bother me. That women get pregnant and
then complain about the lives they wind up with as a result without any
reference to the fact that they *chose that life* -- that bothers me.
Dana
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Dover Beach wrote:
> > Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> > children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
> > that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
> > housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
> > skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
> > important? What ones could you teach?
> Cooking from basic, nutritious foods. Grocery shopping for the most
> nutrition for the least money.
That's good. You teach that bit.
> Plus I'd love to see folks do the math on how much it costs for the
> new TV if you save up the money and buy it outright, versus how much
> it costs if you use a credit card and make minimum payments, versus
> how much it costs to buy it by renting to own -- versus how much it
> costs to find a used one someone else is selling because they've gone
> broke buying stuff the expensive way.
I just made that post an hour or two ago, talking about an exciting
radio offer for $400 laptops, on sale for only $1000!
I think the most important point is probably teaching them what compound
interest means and how it works. P equals Pzero e to the minus kt is a
little abstract for folks who may not have completed high-school
algebra, so I'd start with this: "Interest is what makes people rich.
If you have a credit card and you don't pay the balance off every
month, you're paying some of your money just to make the credit card
company rich. If you get a payday loan, you're paying some of your
money just to make the check cashing place rich. If you rent-to-own a
TV, you're paying some of your money to make the rent-to-own store
rich. But if you save your money in a bank account that pays interest,
the bank is paying some of THEIR money to make YOU rich.
...now, which of those sounds like a better idea?"
Lesson #1 ought to be "Don't spend more than you have". Lesson #2 ought
to be "...and save some of it, if you can."
--
Huey
Bob Ward
"crazymaker...@gmail.com" <crazymaker...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Like it or not, Leslie - there are remarkably few single fathers
living in Section 8 housing with a houseful of kids.
Hactar
The fact that instant gratification _costs_. If you can get something
mail-order it's usually cheaper that way. The lower cost is payment for
the time it's in transit.
Buying in bulk is usually cheaper, but you still have to evaluate each
case to make sure. And if the product goes bad before you finish, it may
not be cheaper overall. And you can't store a truckload of something in
a one-room apartment no matter how good a deal it is.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
Q: Why does hamburger have lower energy than steak?
A: Because it's in the ground state. -- Harold_of_the_Rocks on Fark
Dover Beach
news:9cd2m.1308$I21....@newsfe07.iad:
Very interesting. Thanks!
--
Dover
hpjeannie
> > wrote:
>
> > How to fill out a job allocation. How to behave at an interview.
>
> How to *dress* for an interview. Makes a huge difference, and you can
> get decent, office-y clothes at thrift stores for not a lot of money.
> But people need to know that costuming is a very powerful skill.
Yes. We just finished a successful donation drive for http://www.careercloset.org/
and got some really nice stuff.
Jeannie
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Another important lesson: When it comes to money, put first things
> first. I've told the story here of a young couple I knew who, when
> they were living hand-to-mouth, sleeping on a mattress on the floor of
> a cheap apartment where they had no furniture beyond plastic table and
> chairs I lent them, and no lighting beyond one bulb in the ceiling in
> the living room/kitchen and one in the bathroom, still spent money on
> a television and extended digital cable. When he did a job for a
> friend and made an extra $130, he brought home a Playstation -- and
> didn't pay the rent. He could have bought his pregnant girlfriend a
> whole apartment full of furniture for that money at the Goodwill.
>
> An unfortunate number of the poor are poor because they spend their
> money stupidly.
I think that's not only unfair, but probably almost completely wrong as
well. The reasons people become poor are many and varied, and as often
as not, not really their fault. A tragically large number of us are one
debilitating injury or natural disaster away from bankruptcy (something
that itself requires a certain amount of money to do) and that's
something that's been hammered on quite a bit recently in the healthcare
debate. Since I'm sure that most of the politicians are just pulling
numbers out of their asses, I will as well: 70% of bankruptcies involve
massive medical bills.
A much better statement would be "An unfortunate number of the poor STAY
poor because they spend their money stupidly".
There's a surprisingly large number of people right here in this very
group who have been poor, at one point or another. Most of us have
managed to not stay that way for very long. And a key component of that
process is precisely NOT spending money stupidly.
--
Huey
hpjeannie
> I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
> "life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
I'll take the kids...I can teach reading and numbers and sorting and
the kind of baby critical thinking that goes along with that.
Preschoolers would be best.
Plus I'm much less likely to smack the kids upside their heads and
say, "What were you THINKING???" like I would to the adults.
Jeannie
also cooking/fixing simple, cheap yet nutritious meals and how to shop
for ingredients
QueBarbara
Even thirteen-year-olds, who really have no idea what they are signing
up for?
crazymaker...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail. They
don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need to get
stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for welfare because
the other biological parent can't be found and I need help and health
insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
QueBarbara
And I think another important point is that really poor people don't
have any safety net to catch them, or family heirlooms to sell. God
forbid, if The Dude and I lost our jobs and/or and ended up with a
debilitating illness, we have family that would - albeit grudgingly -
come through for us, and not force us to live on the streets.
crazymaker...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sometimes...women get pregnant when they are married. Yes, they chose
to because they were in a committed marriage. It's what women do.
Then...sometimes, the husband decides to leave for some reason or
another. So what are your thoughts on these women?
Mary
So you agree that it WOULD be best for single mothers on public
assistance to avoid having more children until they can afford to care
for them.
OK.
Mary
crazymaker...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Until the mom AND the dad(s) can afford it- yes! In particular, I
think we should create a mandated birth control for men and women who
don't have jobs or a way to support their unplanned offspring. I don't
think Dover meant for this subject to be about women getting pregnant,
how they became that way and what it takes to care for them. I'm a fan
of putting teens in jail for having sex- I'm extremely bias and
opinionated on this subject. If you care to dance, start another
thread in respect to Dover.
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
> I think that's not only unfair, but probably almost completely wrong as
> well. The reasons people become poor are many and varied, and as often
> as not, not really their fault. A tragically large number of us are one
> debilitating injury or natural disaster away from bankruptcy (something
> that itself requires a certain amount of money to do) and that's
> something that's been hammered on quite a bit recently in the healthcare
> debate. Since I'm sure that most of the politicians are just pulling
> numbers out of their asses, I will as well: 70% of bankruptcies involve
> massive medical bills.
I read about how people are deep in debt today and I can't believe
they can keep it up, even if they're able to stay healthy. Maxing out
credit cards and making minimum payments, for example. Buying a house
up here in the sticks and having kids in daycare and each parent
commuting separately to Los Angeles with. Sometimes it costs more to
work than they make after taxes.
Add an illness or injury and it gets desperate. Even with health
insurance, at least until you lose it because you can't work any
longer. I really worry about people. Specific people, particularly
some here on Usenet, and people in general.
> There's a surprisingly large number of people right here in this very
> group who have been poor, at one point or another. Most of us have
> managed to not stay that way for very long. And a key component of that
> process is precisely NOT spending money stupidly.
I've got to be honest that I've never been poor. I've never even been
close. I'm convinced that part of the reason is that we spend money
carefully. We lived at the same level as our cow orkers with two kids
and only one salary, for example. We didn't spend the rest; we
invested it.
You don't have to start out poor to fritter away your money until
you're one paycheck away from homeless. It just shortens the time
until you reach that destination if you do.
Mary "Have to thank parents who went through the Great Depression."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Dana Carpender
I'll go along with that. You'll note I didn't say that the poor
*become* poor because they spend money stupidly. I said that they *are*
poor because etc.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Chose it once? Expensive learning experience. Does it a second time?
Stupid, careless, looking for a way to feel important, or some
combination of the three.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Okay, I agree. But all of this means that girls are STUPID to think
"Oh, if I get pregnant he'll marry me and take care of me and we'll live
happily ever after."
Dana
Dana Carpender
Depends on what they knew about the man when they married him.
Dana
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
> I think the most important point is probably teaching them what compound
> interest means and how it works. P equals Pzero e to the minus kt is a
> little abstract for folks who may not have completed high-school
> algebra, so I'd start with this: "Interest is what makes people rich.
> If you have a credit card and you don't pay the balance off every
> month, you're paying some of your money just to make the credit card
> company rich. If you get a payday loan, you're paying some of your
> money just to make the check cashing place rich. If you rent-to-own a
> TV, you're paying some of your money to make the rent-to-own store
> rich. But if you save your money in a bank account that pays interest,
> the bank is paying some of THEIR money to make YOU rich.
> ...now, which of those sounds like a better idea?"
However, it's not as if the bank is going to pay enough to make you
rich. It's more like lower middle class. 1.75% pa, as I recall. On
the other hand, I'm not paying the credit card company 29% compounded
daily (or whatever it is; we never carry a balance on a card).
> Lesson #1 ought to be "Don't spend more than you have". Lesson #2 ought
> to be "...and save some of it, if you can."
I hate to say this because it's not really investing, since they don't
pay interest, but even having a little extra withheld from your
paycheck can work for some people. If they don't have it, because the
Feds or the state has it instead, they won't spend it. Of course,
they might use the refunds for down payments on something they can't
keep up, but no method is perfect.
Mary "Even savings bonds, which do pay interest eventually."
Kajikit
"crazymaker...@gmail.com" <crazymaker...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Jun 29, 8:45�pm, Dana Carpender <dcarp...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
Haven't you seen the women (GIRLS actually) who think that the next
man will be the answer... that having a child will be the answer...
that it will give them a reason to live... or tie the man to them...
or give them unconditional love... (or that they have to do whatever
the guy wants to keep him, including having unprotected sex whenever
he feels like it because birth control is 'sissy', with the inevitable
results...) despite the fact that it hasn't worked the last three or
four or five times around the block? Nobody is saying that every
single mother is doing something wrong... you're being hypersensitive
because you are one.
If I had to teach these young women something it would be self-esteem
and the importance of independence and looking after THEMSELVES and
their families FIRST. And the difference between a true loving
relationship and being taken advantage of by some scumbag guy. Before
you can break the bad patterns in your life first you have to be able
to recognise them when you see them, and a lot of people can't do
that...
Dana Carpender
>
> If I had to teach these young women something it would be self-esteem
> and the importance of independence and looking after THEMSELVES and
> their families FIRST. And the difference between a true loving
> relationship and being taken advantage of by some scumbag guy.
Well, and if you pin your hopes on some scumbag guy, despite the fact
that he's already impregnated and abandoned one or more other women, or
has hit you, or has no job and a drug habit, or whatever, then *HE* is
not the one primarily at fault/to blame for your desperation and
poverty, YOU ARE.
Dana
Kajikit
No... whoever it was that first taught you that you didn't deserve any
better from life and made you believe that you didn't have any other
options is the one who is responsible. You can't magically know things
that nobody has ever taught you in your life...
Dana Carpender
No. That person who taught you you are nothing without a man may be to
blame, but you are responsible: Able to respond. Your parents can't go
back and raise you again even if they wanted to. To put the
responsibility for your life choices on them is to condemn yourself to
never changing. The one responsible for changing your choices is YOU.
Dana
crazymaker...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm a single mom because I choose to be, now. I did not sign up for
it. People are different sometimes after the vows. Their true colors
come out. My first hubby was an addict and a dealer. I was young and
naive. I chose to leave him because of the way he treated my girls. My
second hubby was an extremely good actor, In reality, he is an
emotional manipulator, crazymaker, mental terrorist mama's boy. I
really didn't think I could have more kids- I was 37. But, we had an
extremely overactive sex life so it was inevitable, I suppose. No
regrets, my girls, all 3, are my life.
I'm far from perfect. I'm sure I did something to make the last one
cheat. Perhaps it was doing everything, the kids, the job, the sex. He
was neglected somehow, while laying in bed watching sportscenter when
talking to his mom on the phone.
What I would try to teach a class of women is self reliance,
independence. Have a place to go- before he kicks you out!
Dana Carpender
huey.c...@gmail.com
> huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think the most important point is probably teaching them what
> > compound interest means and how it works. P equals Pzero e to the
> > minus kt is a little abstract for folks who may not have completed
> > high-school algebra, so I'd start with this: "Interest is what makes
> > people rich. If you have a credit card and you don't pay the
> > balance off every month, you're paying some of your money just to
> > make the credit card company rich. If you get a payday loan, you're
> > paying some of your money just to make the check cashing place rich.
> > If you rent-to-own a TV, you're paying some of your money to make
> > the rent-to-own store rich. But if you save your money in a bank
> > account that pays interest, the bank is paying some of THEIR money
> > to make YOU rich. ...now, which of those sounds like a better
> > idea?"
> However, it's not as if the bank is going to pay enough to make you
> rich. It's more like lower middle class. 1.75% pa, as I recall. On
> the other hand, I'm not paying the credit card company 29% compounded
> daily (or whatever it is; we never carry a balance on a card).
Here's a concrete example that most po' folks ought to be able to get
their minds around:
Cigarettes are around $4 a pack.
Instead of spending that four bucks a day on a bad habit, if you put it
in an account that paid 2% interest, at the end of twenty-five years,
you'd have fifty thousand dollars.
To somebody living hand-to-mouth, fifty thousand dollars is 'rich'.
> > Lesson #1 ought to be "Don't spend more than you have". Lesson #2
> > ought to be "...and save some of it, if you can."
> I hate to say this because it's not really investing, since they don't
> pay interest, but even having a little extra withheld from your
> paycheck can work for some people. If they don't have it, because the
> Feds or the state has it instead, they won't spend it. Of course,
> they might use the refunds for down payments on something they can't
> keep up, but no method is perfect.
It's possible to have that money withheld to someplace that DOES pay
interest, though.
--
Huey
Greg Goss
wrote:
>I don't think Dover meant for this subject to be about
So change the thread title. We're not just limited to what Dover
wants. You can launch threads, too. Don't say "don't get me
started". On AFCA, you're expected to be a self-starter.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
crazymaker...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
OMG- Dana, you are just so perfect and flawless- I wish I were like
you! You seem to know the right things to say and you seem SO wise.
Seriously? Do you have a single fault? Because you seem to have a LOT
of opinions on things and how they should be...
Dana Carpender
-- you'll have $117K plus change after 25 years. And if you put in $4 a
day for 50 years -- from your 15th birthday (right around when I started
smoking) till your 65th birtday -- you'll have over $977K. In other
words, smoking your whole adult life costs you nearly a million bucks.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Oh, bite me, Leslie, I didn't even make the post you're replying to.
But I did manage to not marry an asshole just to get away from home, and
to not have kids with a jerk who seemed unlikely to take responsibility
for his kids. Do you take no responsibility for your choices?
Dana
crazymaker...@gmail.com
It's hard to take responsibility for choices I've made to men who are
mama's boy liars. I didn't marry to get away from home...I was thrown
out because my stepfather hit on me and my mom didn't believe me. When
I met my first hubby, I was working 2 jobs and going to college. I
guess YOU are just lucky....or smart. However you want to look at it.
hpjeannie
>
> Okay, I agree. But all of this means that girls are STUPID to think
> "Oh, if I get pregnant he'll marry me and take care of me and we'll live
> happily ever after."
Especially in view of what's all around them; i.e., ample evidence to
the contrary.
Jeannie
hpjeannie
<reunite.gondw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You don't have to start out poor to fritter away your money until
> you're one paycheck away from homeless. It just shortens the time
> until you reach that destination if you do.
>
> Mary "Have to thank parents who went through the Great Depression."
That's for sure. My parents were older when they had me, and they
well remembered the Depression. Hubby's parents were young when they
had him, and they were early and enthusiastic entrants to the
"disposable society." I can't believe the way his mom dumps stuff out
of a can and tosses the can in the garbage without scraping out every
morsel, or uses three paper towels when one would do, or washes bath
towels after one use. Astounding. And that's not even mentioning the
appalling number of once-used QVC "bargains" in the garage.
Thankfully, her son is a bit more conservative, but I still have to
make it easy for him to put away and/or eat leftovers (containers on
the counter when he's clearing dinner; and they're clear so he doesn't
have to unwrap things to see what's in them). But he's still a
spender and I'm a saver, and it's really hard to keep him from
"justifying" purchases when the credit union account starts building
up (I would like a minimum rainy-day fund; it burns a hole in his
pocket). He does like collecting savings bonds and recognizes the
importance of automatic deductions for retirement accounts, though, so
that's encouraging.
Jeannie
Dana Carpender
Some of both. But it does appear from everything you write that you are
looking very hard for some sort of absolution for any responsibility for
your own choices.
Dana
crazymaker...@gmail.com
And you are so pious. I take responsibility 24/7 for the choices I've
made, because really- no one else does. Always have, always will. I DO
think that your judgements of something you obviously have NO clue
about are ridiculous. Get off your high cookbook writing horse.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
"crazymaker...@gmail.com" wrote:
>
> On Jun 29, 9:07 pm, Bob Ward <bobw...@email.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:56:58 -0700 (PDT),
> > "crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com" <crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >On Jun 29, 6:40 pm, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
> > >> Dover Beach wrote:
> > >> > Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> > >> > children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
> > >> > that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
> > >> > housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
> > >> > skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
> > >> > important? What ones could you teach?
> >
> > >> First skill? How not to get knocked up yet again so they at least have a
> > >> breathing space to learn the other skills.
> > >> --
> > >> John Dean
> > >> Oxford
> >
> > >I agree! Staying away from men until they get on their feet is a
> > >fantastic idea! Because women are solely responsible for getting
> > >knocked up, right? If there are any men in this housing, teach them to
> > >just say no when a woman wants sex. LOL
> > >Sometimes women don't get knocked up irresponsibly- sometimes they've
> > >been married, etc.
> > >I've been accused of overgeneralizing on this group- your post seems
> > >sexist.
> >
> > Like it or not, Leslie - there are remarkably few single fathers
> > living in Section 8 housing with a houseful of kids.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
> plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail.
>
Other than having sex, what active choice did they make to become
fathers?: "I'm using birth control, no really."
> They
> don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need to get
> stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for welfare because
> the other biological parent can't be found and I need help and health
> insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
>
But why can't the other biological parent be found? Isn't this
usually due to poor choices on the part of the one that can be
found?
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
"crazymaker...@gmail.com" wrote:
>
> Until the mom AND the dad(s) can afford it- yes! In particular, I
> think we should create a mandated birth control for men and women who
> don't have jobs or a way to support their unplanned offspring.
>
Really? So you are saying that even if someone doesn't want it, you
would force them to have a medical procedure? How does this work
with the theory that women have the right to abortion because they
have the right to control their own bodies?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Dana Carpender wrote:
>
> crazymaker...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
> > plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail. They
> > don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need to get
> > stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for welfare because
> > the other biological parent can't be found and I need help and health
> > insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
>
> Okay, I agree. But all of this means that girls are STUPID to think
> "Oh, if I get pregnant he'll marry me and take care of me and we'll live
> happily ever after."
>
Assuming he doesn't want to hide out, he is going to pay child
support, isn't he? I mean that system is pretty powerful. As long
as you get pregnant with a man who has some income, you'll at least
have something, right? And if not, won't the government pick up at
least some of the difference?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
You are basically saying that people aren't responsible for
themselves, that it is the fault of not being taught right or
society or anything else but them. That's a recipe for failure.
Heather
wrote:
>Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:95221c98-7ed9-407d...@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 29, 5:19�pm, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>> skills" to this group. �What life skills do you think are most
>>> important? �What ones could you teach?
>>
>>
>> Most important: money management - because the less money you have
>> the more important it is that you're careful; statistics - because so
>> much requires the ability to interpret what it means to say that (just
>> as an example) your child has a 5% chance of surviving non-Hodgkins
>> lymphoma without chemo and 90% chance of surviving if he has chemo;
>> cooking - which some people won't need, but anyone who's spending
>> money on fast food or prepackaged crap rather than cooking really
>> shouldn't be if money's tight.
>>
>> I'm sure there's more that I haven't thought of yet.
>>
>
>Oh, interpreting basic statistics -- interesting. Basic money
>management, yeah -- maybe you could combine that with computer skills,
>by learning how to check online accounts. Except most of these folks
>probably don't have bank accounts.
I strongly suspect that many of these folks don't even have a lot in
the way of basic literacy and numeracy skills. I would address those
first, particularly as they relate to budgeting and dealing with the
many forms they are going to have to read and fill in, as well as bank
accounts and how to manage them, loan applications, interest rates and
how much a loan really costs, leases, taxes etc. Then you can move on
to statistics and a bit of probability theory.
They should also learn cooking and basic nutrition, including how to
eat nutritious food as cheaply as possible, both with and without
adequate cooking facilities. They need to know how to read the
ingredients list on cans etc. and how to cost out a recipe. They
should also learn basic hygiene, child care, first aid, and how to
recognise when someone really needs a doctor or hospital.
Along with these skills they should learn how to use the library,
computers at a basic level, how to dress appropriately for job
interviews without spending a lot of money, how to write a resume and
how to conduct themselves at a job interview.
Some of them are bound to need self-esteem building and basic
assertiveness training.
--
Heather
Tony Myers www.sedatedape.com (conveniently located near various things)
> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing that
> is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent housing).
> Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life skills" to this
> group. What life skills do you think are most important? What ones
> could you teach?
nuisance lawsuits
Tony Myers www.sedatedape.com (conveniently located near various things)
> Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
> plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail.
The term "bulk" means at least 51% right? If so, I really really doubt
what you said is true, or even close to true
Charles Wm. Dimmick
cost. Only Dana would object, because there would be too many carbs.
Charles
Dover Beach
news:7atghvF...@mid.individual.net:
> We're not just limited to what Dover wants.
Damn.
--
Dover
Patrick M Geahan
> And you are so pious. I take responsibility 24/7 for the choices I've
> made,
Other than posting here incessantly about how your marriages
weren't ever your fault, yeah, you're taking shitloads of credit.
I mean, really, there's been one common thread throughout your
failed marriages - *you*. At *minimum*, you're going after the
types of guys who will treat you poorly, which is your issue.
And more likely, you're minimizing or ignoring your own part of
the issue. I have seen very very very few marriages where the
failure was solely due to one person's action.
--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@thepatcave.org---ICQ:3784715------
"You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time." - spa...@pffcu.com, a.f.c-a
Lisa Ann
news:rpqdnQ_n2PHh8dTX...@speakeasy.net...
> Dana Carpender <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
>> Another important lesson: When it comes to money, put first things
>> first. I've told the story here of a young couple I knew who, when
>> they were living hand-to-mouth, sleeping on a mattress on the floor of
>> a cheap apartment where they had no furniture beyond plastic table and
>> chairs I lent them, and no lighting beyond one bulb in the ceiling in
>> the living room/kitchen and one in the bathroom, still spent money on
>> a television and extended digital cable. When he did a job for a
>> friend and made an extra $130, he brought home a Playstation -- and
>> didn't pay the rent. He could have bought his pregnant girlfriend a
>> whole apartment full of furniture for that money at the Goodwill.
>>
>> An unfortunate number of the poor are poor because they spend their
>> money stupidly.
>
> I think that's not only unfair, but probably almost completely wrong as
> well. The reasons people become poor are many and varied, and as often
> as not, not really their fault. A tragically large number of us are one
> debilitating injury or natural disaster away from bankruptcy (something
> that itself requires a certain amount of money to do) and that's
> something that's been hammered on quite a bit recently in the healthcare
> debate. Since I'm sure that most of the politicians are just pulling
> numbers out of their asses, I will as well: 70% of bankruptcies involve
> massive medical bills.
>
> A much better statement would be "An unfortunate number of the poor STAY
> poor because they spend their money stupidly".
>
> There's a surprisingly large number of people right here in this very
> group who have been poor, at one point or another. Most of us have
> managed to not stay that way for very long. And a key component of that
> process is precisely NOT spending money stupidly.
Agreed. And I think we also all know someone who *should* be poor because
they spend their money stupidly. My ex is a classic example. "I want it"
was justification, "We've got room on the credit cards!" was paying for it,
and he was utterly shocked when we had to declare bankruptcy in 1997. I'm
still traumatized from that, to the point that I don't own a credit card.
If I can't pay cash for it (my car being the exception), I don't get it.
The last time I checked the county tax rolls, he and Katrina had a $325K
mortgage on the house. I have no idea how they're making payments, nor do I
know how the hell they got a $325K mortage on a 40 year old house that is
probably very poorly maintained. But unless Kat has gotten a lot tougher
since I left, I bet he's still spending most of his disability on shit he
sees on TV.
Lisa Ann
Patrick M Geahan
> If you put it somewhere that averages 8% -- not stratospheric interest
> -- you'll have $117K plus change after 25 years. And if you put in $4 a
> day for 50 years -- from your 15th birthday (right around when I started
> smoking) till your 65th birtday -- you'll have over $977K. In other
> words, smoking your whole adult life costs you nearly a million bucks.
And that's in supplies alone. Health costs are certainly going up,
not to mention property damage. A home or car that smells like
smoke is going to be worth less than one that isn't.
Lisa Ann
news:7at3t3F...@mid.individual.net...
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> Nice to be able to understand how to open and maintain a checking
>> account and use an ATM card, but most of these women will not have
>> enough spare funds to open an account with fees.
>
> And also talk about credit cards, especially the interest part...
And, despite the fact that I've defended them here, stay the hell away from
Payday lenders unless you absolutely have no choice. And never, ever borrow
more than you need to get through this crisis. If you need $100 to buy two
used tires for your car (which will probably last you another year), then
only borrow $100 and know that you're going to have to pay back $115 in two
weeks. Just because they *tell* you you're qualified to borrow $500 now,
doesn't mean you should do it. I mean, if you couldn't scrape $100 out of
your current paycheck to buy two used tires, what the hell makes you think
you can scrape $575 out of your next paycheck to pay it back?
And know ahead of time what you're going to cut back on to pay that $115
back out of the next check. Hint: it's not smart to short your rent or
utilities, so it's going to have to come out of the food/entertainment
budget.
Lisa Ann
Dover Beach
news:h2cr44$5vi$2...@news.eternal-september.org:
Are they quick to make? That seems key to me. If it's not quick to
make, people who are working and raising small children simply aren't
going to do it.
Personally, I'd make absolutely all meals in a crockpot. I do that a
lot of the time now anyway, and I don't have small children. I just
don't like to cook at the end of a long day. I want it ready NOW.
--
Dover
Mary
<crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 29, 10:40 pm, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Jun 29, 9:07 pm, Bob Ward <bobw...@email.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:56:58 -0700 (PDT),
> > >> "crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com" <crazymakerchronic...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >>> On Jun 29, 6:40 pm, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
> > >>>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> > >>>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
> > >>>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
> > >>>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
> > >>>>> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
> > >>>>> important? What ones could you teach?
> > >>>> breathing space to learn the other skills.
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> John Dean
> > >>>> Oxford
> > >>> I agree! Staying away from men until they get on their feet is a
> > >>> fantastic idea! Because women are solely responsible for getting
> > >>> knocked up, right? If there are any men in this housing, teach them to
> > >>> just say no when a woman wants sex. LOL
> > >>> Sometimes women don't get knocked up irresponsibly- sometimes they've
> > >>> been married, etc.
> > >>> I've been accused of overgeneralizing on this group- your post seems
> > >>> sexist.
> > >> Like it or not, Leslie - there are remarkably few single fathers
> > >> living in Section 8 housing with a houseful of kids.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need to get
> > > stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for welfare because
> > > the other biological parent can't be found and I need help and health
> > > insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
>
> > assistance to avoid having more children until they can afford to care
> > for them.
>
> > OK.
>
> > Mary- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> think we should create a mandated birth control for men and women who
> think Dover meant for this subject to be about women getting pregnant,
> how they became that way and what it takes to care for them. I'm a fan
> of putting teens in jail for having sex- I'm extremely bias and
> opinionated on this subject. If you care to dance, start another
> thread in respect to Dover.
That's way out of line. First of all, you'll never get mandated birth
control - this isn't China, and no one in the US wants it to be -
reproduction is a basic human right. All I ask is that people who do
it take responsibility for their kids. Second, putting teens in jail
for having sex is just getting them off their parents' hands and
making the taxpayer support them - sorry, you had 'em, you raise 'em,
and you teach 'em. Also feed and clothe them. Thanks.
And by the way, thread drift is an old and cherished tradition on AFCA
and much more accepted than people who try to be the thread police.
And I respect Dover just fine.
Mary
Heather
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:gbgi4517kfjlka81q...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 29 Jun 2009 22:19:05 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>>children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>>that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>>housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>>skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>>>important? What ones could you teach?
>>
>>
>> Reading, it's fundamental and the capability is not a given in many of
>> these situations Assuming there is provision for childcare, so some
>> serious learning can be undertaken, I'd teach computer skills, too.
>> ESL classes for anyone who is not fluent in English.
>>
>> You can teach folks how to shop and cook, but a lot of that winds up
>> being limited by/dictated by food stamps and markets in the area and
>> the ability to schlep it all home.
>>
>> Nice to be able to understand how to open and maintain a checking
>> account and use an ATM card, but most of these women will not have
>> enough spare funds to open an account with fees.
>>
>> How to fill out a job allocation. How to behave at an interview. How
>> to acquire references. How to find adequate childcare. How to get
>> through the morass of public assistance of various sorts, too, so that
>> adequate food, housing, legal help and healthcare can be provided to
>> the woman and her children until she gets on her feet.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, I really wish I could learn the stuff you list in the last
>paragraph so I could tell others how to deal with it. It must be
>possible.
Of course it's possible. All it takes is research and you should
certainly have the necessary skills for that. Of course you would have
to know where you were going to teach so that you could target your
research because different areas have different services available.
>I'd also add to the job skills that Woody Allen was right -- showing up
>is 80% of everything. And if you're not going to show up, *call in* --
>it's amazing how many people don't do that.
--
Heather
Heather
wrote:
>"crazymaker...@gmail.com" <crazymaker...@gmail.com> wrote
>in
>news:8050570d-6684-41e8...@k15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 29, 6:19�pm, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>> skills" to this group. �What life skills do you think are most
>>> important? �What ones could you teach?
>>>
>
>>
>> How to get a feeling of empowerment, which would probably vary, case
>> by case. Perhaps acquiring life skills is what empowers people. In my
>> experience, there are people who feel like the world owes them for
>> something, who are entirely self-involved; then there are people that
>> have been traumatized to the point that they feel they deserve no good
>> thing that happens to them. I'll have to think on this more, because I
>> like the question...
>
>I think you're probably right, but I don't know how to teach
>empowerment. Maybe it's the same way you deal with severely depressed
>people -- cheerlead every little accomplishment. Today you made toast
>before collapsing back into bed. Yay! Tomorrow maybe you'll put jam on
>the toast before collapsing back into bed. Yay!
>
>It kind of requires you to be there all the time, though.
Just learning the life skills and putting them into practice in a
group setting can be very empowering in itself.
--
Heather
Kim
> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
> important? What ones could you teach?
When I was a senior in High School, my school instituted a new required
class called "Skills for Living" (which is still taught at my high school,
btw.)
One of my teachers asked if I would be on the curriculum planning comittee
with members of the school board and faculty of the school - we had to
design the course and plan what, exactly, everyone thought should be taught
in that class.
Being a maried mother of one in High School, I was probably a good choice
for the planning committee.
I can't remember everything that we ended up using in the course, but I
remember some of the things we decided on - perhaps some of it isn't
relevant to single moms, but maybe some is:
How to read and use a bus schedule
Filling out employment applications and writing resumes
balancing a checkbook
interpreting graphs and charts (you'd be surprised how many applications
this has.)
Applying percentages and interest in banking and shopping (sales, percentage
"off", compound interest, loan analysis.)
Nutrition
What does it cost? - Costs of owning a home, driving a car, going to
college, raising a kid - applying previous lessons in graph analysis,
percentages and loan analysis to real world scenarios
Communication skills - basic letter writing, problem solve using words,
telephone skills (knowing your audience - do you speak to a potential
employer the same way you speak to a friend?).
Community Resources - what agencies do what and how to get help
Self evaluation - (what are your skills, what are you "good at", what do you
need to work on - how do you change the things you don't like - how do you
build skills you don't have?)
--
Kim
www.thedarwinexception.wordpress.com
*You know, what I say makes a lot more sense if you can see the hand
puppets.*
Kim
> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
> important? What ones could you teach?
I remembered a couple more things that were taught - filling out tax forms
and reading and understanding a paycheck stub.
Kim
> Dana Carpender wrote:
>>
>> crazymaker...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
>>> plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail.
>>> They don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need
>>> to get stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for
>>> welfare because the other biological parent can't be found and I
>>> need help and health insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
>>
>> Okay, I agree. But all of this means that girls are STUPID to think
>> "Oh, if I get pregnant he'll marry me and take care of me and we'll
>> live happily ever after."
>>
> Assuming he doesn't want to hide out, he is going to pay child
> support, isn't he? I mean that system is pretty powerful. As long
> as you get pregnant with a man who has some income, you'll at least
> have something, right? And if not, won't the government pick up at
> least some of the difference?
A lot of men are very adept at getting jobs with non-reported income. Or
creating their own businesses with under reported income. So men can have a
job making money while still not paying child support.
And while the government will give you welfare - that's not enough money to
raise a kid on very successfully. Welfare assumes the costs of very, very
basic living needs.
Dover Beach
news:h2d76k$of8$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Dover Beach wrote:
>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>> important? What ones could you teach?
>
> I remembered a couple more things that were taught - filling out tax
> forms and reading and understanding a paycheck stub.
>
>
Those are good.
--
Dover
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>On Jun 29, 8:13�pm, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 29 Jun 2009 23:59:04 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
>> >"life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
>>
>> Bread baking.....staff of life, 'n all...
>
>I would imagine I could teach some literacy skills, including basic
>computer literacy.
I could teach them about the Internuts.
Boron
Dover Beach
news:6v5k4516na0kp7me1...@4ax.com:
> On 29 Jun 2009 22:58:22 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:gbgi4517kfjlka81q...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>> How to fill out a job allocation. How to behave at an interview. How
>>> to acquire references. How to find adequate childcare. How to get
>>> through the morass of public assistance of various sorts, too, so
>>> that adequate food, housing, legal help and healthcare can be
>>> provided to the woman and her children until she gets on her feet.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, I really wish I could learn the stuff you list in the last
>>paragraph so I could tell others how to deal with it. It must be
>>possible.
>
>
> Of course it's possible. All it takes is research and you should
> certainly have the necessary skills for that. Of course you would have
> to know where you were going to teach so that you could target your
> research because different areas have different services available.
>
>
I have applications in at two different organizations to do volunteer
work. One of them has a more targeted disadvantaged population than the
other. And yes, I'm exactly the kind of person who can learn
bureaucratic red tape and how to navigate it. I just need to figure out
where to start, or if that's even going to be something that is needed
from me.
--
Dover
Opus the Penguin
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>> Dover Beach wrote:
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women
>>> with children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8
>>> housing that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more
>>> permanent housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes
>>> on "life skills" to this group. What life skills do you think
>>> are most important? What ones could you teach?
>>>
>> I could teach how to make delicious, nutritious meals at
>> relatively low cost. Only Dana would object, because there would
>> be too many carbs.
>>
>
> Are they quick to make? That seems key to me. If it's not quick
> to make, people who are working and raising small children simply
> aren't going to do it.
>
> Personally, I'd make absolutely all meals in a crockpot. I do
> that a lot of the time now anyway, and I don't have small
> children. I just don't like to cook at the end of a long day. I
> want it ready NOW.
>
If anyone knows of a good Crock Pot recipe book with *simple*
recipes, I'd be interested. I have one that likes to get all fancy.
I need more recipes that involve tossing the pork chops in and
dumping a can of Cream of Mushroom soup on top.
For simple NON Crock Pot meals, we've had good results from
Desperation Dinners:
http://www.amazon.com/Desperation-Dinners-Beverly-Mills/dp/076110481X/
Nice tasty recipes that they claim can be put together in 20
minutes. I'd say it's closer to 30, but it's still not bad.
The authors have another book which appears to have some advice for
the budget-minded:
http://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Fast-Good-Beverly-Mills/dp/0761131760/
And here are a couple of others in the same genre:
http://www.amazon.com/Six-OClock-Scramble-Delicious-Families/dp/031233642X/
http://www.amazon.com/Weeknight-Survival-Cookbook-Healthy-Minutes/dp/0471347132/
That last one promises healthy meals in 10 minutes. I'm skeptical
but intrigued.
--
Opus the Penguin
Most people disobey the Pope. I consider it one of my more enjoyable
hobbies. - groo
Kim
> "crazymaker...@gmail.com" <crazymaker...@gmail.com>
> wrote in
> news:8050570d-6684-41e8...@k15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>>> important? What ones could you teach?
>>>
>
>>
>> by case. Perhaps acquiring life skills is what empowers people. In my
>> experience, there are people who feel like the world owes them for
>> something, who are entirely self-involved; then there are people that
>> have been traumatized to the point that they feel they deserve no
>> good thing that happens to them. I'll have to think on this more,
>> because I like the question...
>
> I think you're probably right, but I don't know how to teach
> empowerment. Maybe it's the same way you deal with severely depressed
> people -- cheerlead every little accomplishment. Today you made toast
> before collapsing back into bed. Yay! Tomorrow maybe you'll put jam
> on the toast before collapsing back into bed. Yay!
>
> It kind of requires you to be there all the time, though.
Empowerment means control. And most women who have been dumped or abandoned
and are now reliant on a system that takes all control from them have no
control. And many women who are in poverty are there because they abdicated
control of their life to a man who did not have their best interests at
heart.
Empowerment is taking back the control of their lives and can be as simple
as learning how to have utilities turned on in their own name and then DOING
it. Having a savings account that they start with $5.00 and add $1.00 to
each week. Studying for and then going to go and get their GED. Making
intelligent, informed financial decisions like writing out a budget and
CHOOSING how to spend their money. Even if there aren't real decisions to be
made - other than choosing to pay the bills on time.
Most women coming from abusive relationships or living in poverty after
being abandoned have had no say in their or their children's lives. And they
may question their own judgment and decisions, because they've HAD no
experience at making responsible decisions and seeing the results. And by
slowly learning to take control over little things and seeing that their
choices are wise, valid and that they are capable decision makers, they
slowly learn self esteem and to trust their own abilities. And then they
have the confidence to make bigger decisions.
With this comes empowerment, self validation and a feeling of worth.
You're right that you can't teach empowerment - but you can teach the skills
needed to feel empowered.
Kim
> On 29 Jun 2009 23:59:04 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I notice nobody is addressing the second half of my question -- what
>> "life skills" do you think *you'd* be good at teaching?
>
> Bread baking.....staff of life, 'n all...
I'd like to sign up for your class.
Kim
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:gbgi4517kfjlka81q...@4ax.com:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
>>> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing
>>> that is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent
>>> housing). Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life
>>> skills" to this group. What life skills do you think are most
>>> important? What ones could you teach?
>>
>>
>> of these situations Assuming there is provision for childcare, so
>> some serious learning can be undertaken, I'd teach computer skills,
>> too. ESL classes for anyone who is not fluent in English.
>>
>> You can teach folks how to shop and cook, but a lot of that winds up
>> being limited by/dictated by food stamps and markets in the area and
>> the ability to schlep it all home.
>>
>> Nice to be able to understand how to open and maintain a checking
>> account and use an ATM card, but most of these women will not have
>> enough spare funds to open an account with fees.
>>
>> to acquire references. How to find adequate childcare. How to get
>> through the morass of public assistance of various sorts, too, so
>> that adequate food, housing, legal help and healthcare can be
>> provided to the woman and her children until she gets on her feet.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, I really wish I could learn the stuff you list in the last
> paragraph so I could tell others how to deal with it. It must be
> possible.
>
> up is 80% of everything. And if you're not going to show up, *call
> in* -- it's amazing how many people don't do that.
Paul makes me call in for him.
And if anyone hands him a form to fill out - anywhere - he reflexively hands
it to me.
I hate that.
lalb...@aol.com
wrote:
Your answer to the question is one of the best bunch of skill sets so
far. As a married mother of one in high school, which of those skills
did you not have? What were your personal suggestions to the planning
committee?
Les
QueBarbara
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If anyone knows of a good Crock Pot recipe book with *simple*
>recipes, I'd be interested. I have one that likes to get all fancy.
>I need more recipes that involve tossing the pork chops in and
>dumping a can of Cream of Mushroom soup on top.
>
>For simple NON Crock Pot meals, we've had good results from
>Desperation Dinners:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Desperation-Dinners-Beverly-Mills/dp/076110481X/
>
>Nice tasty recipes that they claim can be put together in 20
>minutes. I'd say it's closer to 30, but it's still not bad.
Thanks, I'll check that out.
Jeannie has mentioned a quick easy recipe that we enjoy too. This is
from memory, so I hope I don't forget something:
~2 lbs. Boneless beef ribs (country ribs)
16-oz. Bottle of your favorite BBQ sauce (Hickory smoked is good)
1 or 2 onions
Salt and pepper ribs, put on a broiler pan and place under broiler
until brown, and most of the fat has drained off.
Slice onion into rings and place in bottom of crockpot. Place ribs on
top or onion, pour BBQ sauce over ribs.
Cook on low 8-10 hours, high 4-5 hours.
--
QueBarbara
AFCA Hussy Of The Year, 2009
Les Albert
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If anyone knows of a good Crock Pot recipe book with *simple*
>recipes, I'd be interested. I have one that likes to get all fancy.
>I need more recipes that involve tossing the pork chops in and
>dumping a can of Cream of Mushroom soup on top.
The best one we have found is, "The Slow Cooker Bible", 2005. Found
on the bargain shelf in the cooking section of B & N. Very few of the
recipes involve elaborate preparation before layering the ingredients
into the crock pot.
Les
Dover Beach
news:h2d9v0$bf3$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Empowerment means control. And most women who have been dumped or
> abandoned and are now reliant on a system that takes all control from
> them have no control. And many women who are in poverty are there
> because they abdicated control of their life to a man who did not have
> their best interests at heart.
>
I get all of what you're saying (including the parts I snipped). I'm
probably going to sound defeatist here, which is weird, because I'm just
starting to try to get involved in helping people who need help.
At my office, we just had several layoffs and a bunch more people were
cut to 3/4 time. Our receptionist got laid off (announced May 30), and
of all the people who should have worked through til July 1 (everyone
was given that option) it was she. She's supporting her teenage
daughter and her granddaughter. But no, she was "too upset" so she quit
back in early June. Our HR person talked to her about using her time to
save her money and keep looking for a new job, but no dice.
I have several other stories about my coworkers and their seriously dumb
decisions. And these are people who are employed! And I know they can
add 2 and 2. My sister-in-law is another case of someone who is halfway
bright but makes incredibly dumb decisions that land her in jail, or in
the basement of her parents' house yet again with her five kids. She is
a bookkeeper, and a reasonably good one, but she jumps for *any* man who
says he'll support her. Why is that such a big damn deal? Five kids,
the dads are all dead or in jail. But if he says "don't worry, honey,
I'll take care of you and you can just stay home with the kids" the fact
that he's a drug dealer with a criminal record and a bunch of abandoned
kids just doesn't faze her in the least.
And God knows, Kim, you can top any of those stories with your Malone
experiences.
So what are the programs that work? In Mountains Beyond Mountains, Paul
Farmer made big progress with his Haitian patients by hiking out there
to their houses and insisting they take their medicine and do other
followup stuff. Other super labor-intensive programs work well too --
there's one I was reading about where caseworkers show up and drive
people to their jobs. Eventually, the clients get the hang of going to
work every day.
But just providing them with information...I don't know how well that
works. I think you need really big interventions in their lives.
--
Dover
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Kim wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) wrote:
> > Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>
> >> crazymaker...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>> Yes- I know- That's because the bulk of them don't step up to the
> >>> plate until they are threatened with suspended licenses or jail.
> >>> They don't say to themselves "Wow, I'm going to have a baby! I need
> >>> to get stuff for it and arrange for daycare and go apply for
> >>> welfare because the other biological parent can't be found and I
> >>> need help and health insurance." Don't get me started.... :>)
> >>
> >> Okay, I agree. But all of this means that girls are STUPID to think
> >> "Oh, if I get pregnant he'll marry me and take care of me and we'll
> >> live happily ever after."
> >>
> > Assuming he doesn't want to hide out, he is going to pay child
> > support, isn't he? I mean that system is pretty powerful. As long
> > as you get pregnant with a man who has some income, you'll at least
> > have something, right? And if not, won't the government pick up at
> > least some of the difference?
>
> A lot of men are very adept at getting jobs with non-reported income. Or
> creating their own businesses with under reported income. So men can have a
> job making money while still not paying child support.
>
I'm sure this is true, but don't you think that not reporting
incoming and otherwise going to great lengths to avoid paying child
support is "hiding out"? Anyone doing this, it would seem, would
probably argue that somehow the system had mistreated him.
> And while the government will give you welfare - that's not enough money to
> raise a kid on very successfully. Welfare assumes the costs of very, very
> basic living needs.
>
Perhaps it would be better for the children to earn a decent living
and use that to take care of them, but you admit that many Malone
mothers have got that way intentionally to use the welfare system.
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
beans and rice. While the red beans took a long time to cook, starting
with soaking them overnight, the time commitment on the part of the cook
was minimal. And we would throw into the pot anything else we had
available, including all liquids from cooking vegetables, meat scraps,
the vegetables at the grocery store set aside for quick sale because
they were beginning to spot, etc. A one-pound bag of red beans was 12
cents; a pound of rice was 12 cents, brisket was 12 cents a pound, and
the slightly past fresh vegetables were 8 cents a pound. By the time one
added the water for processing the above combination made about 9 pounds
of red beans and rice, which fed us for several days.
Charles
K_S_ONeill
> Suppose you had a population of families (mostly single women with
> children) living in "transitional housing" (i.e., Section 8 housing that
> is hopefully a bridge from homeless shelter to more permanent housing).
> Suppose that you were going to teach classes on "life skills" to this
> group. What life skills do you think are most important? What ones
> could you teach?
a) Get a checking account, don't rent to own or any nonsense like
that, read to the kids every night, insist on good grades, go to
parent teacher conferences and back the teacher to the hilt in front
of the kids, then ask any questions you have or have any fights you
want to have when the kid isn't in the room. Assume the kid will go
to college. Tell the kid she will go to college. Get online and show
the kid where she will go to college. When she makes bad grades tell
her, "Spellman won't take you if you fail geometry. You want to go to
Spellman, don't you?
b) Start a business. Every job you have, look around and ask
yourself, "Could I run this place?" Steal skills, not things. Learn
to do the books. Guess at who should have been hired and who not,
then see if you're right. Start a business. Get it in your head,
you're going to run a business some day. Then save up enough to live
on for six weeks and start it. Then when it goes under, start another
one, then again, then again. If you work for a maid service, work
there for six months then quit and steal all the customers you can and
undercut the prices. Laundry, cleaning, health care, child care, taco
stand, manage rentals, own rentals, learn it then quit and run it
yourself, and hire people, don't be a one man show. Certainly learn
interview skills, but they're not for job interviews, they're for the
bank to get a loan for another taco stand, not to get a job at
1.1*minimum wage. Poor people don't become middle class by working
hard for someone else, they either go to to school and get a degree or
they start a business.
--
Kevin
Heather
wrote:
There are never enough people who can navigate red tape and deal with
bureaucracy. They are needed to find out what resources are available,
to unravel the system enough to explain it to others, to source the
correct forms and contacts and they are also needed to act as direct
advocates for people who for some reason are incapable of dealing with
the bureaucracy themselves. It is surprising how easily many people
are intimidated by those they perceive to be in a position of
authority, particularly if they are poorly educated and not very
literate.
--
Heather