power cables and power adapters
Eddie G
box that the AC cord plugs into from the wall, then the other end goes into
the device. What is the purpose of this box (the power adapter)? What
would happen if the power cord went from the wall into the device without
the adapter? (not that it could because it is not designed to do so).
Thanks,
Eddie
SoCalMike
"Eddie G" <mick...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:DtmdnRrcx-l...@comcast.com...
youd likely fry the equipment. the little box is usually used to transform
the voltage to something the equipment can use. its basically a "wall wart",
with the "wart" part a little further down the line, so you arent blocking
other outlets with the plug.
Greg Goss
When you make a high-voltage product for the north american consumer
market, you give a bunch of the product to the fire certification
bodies (UL and CSA and probably others) where they subject it to a
number of sadistic attempts to make it fail in a manner that could
hurt someone.
If your high-voltage product is a $1 box that goes on the wall and is
used on all your products, you are out $10 or so. If your high
voltage product is a $4000 laptop computer, you are out considerably
more money.
My Toshiba P100 laptop took power directly into the unit from the wall
cord.
A second issue is heat. Modern laptops are fighting a desperate
losing battle to get heat out of the case. If you put the main
transformer outside of the case, this is one source of heat that can
dissipate separately.
Blinky the Shark
Look at one. It will almost surely tell you the output voltage.
What is the voltage at the wall?
See?
--
Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 4892F
[still no new sig]
Bob Ward
>
>When you make a high-voltage product for the north american consumer
>market, you give a bunch of the product to the fire certification
>bodies (UL and CSA and probably others) where they subject it to a
>number of sadistic attempts to make it fail in a manner that could
>hurt someone.
>
You forgot to mention the part where the manufacturer pays very big
bucks to have his equipment tested. UL isn't a government entity.
groo
I'm not sure if the previous answers were very clear, so I'll chime in.
The electricity at the wall outlet is 110 volts, Alternating Current
(the voltage goes up and down, 60 times per second). This is a useful
way to distribute electricity, but for many devices, not a useful way to
use it. For example, the types of electronics gear you mentioned
generally likes Direct Current (the voltage is a constant level) and
fairly low voltages, such as 5V, 9V, 12V, 1.2V, etc.
The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC, and it
"steps down" the voltage from 110V to something the product can use.
If you took a power cord and adapted it so that your 12V DC printer was
directly hooked up to the wall socket, you'd have a couple of fairly
quick events. First, something in the printer would probably have a
small meltdown...if you were lucky, a fuse. There might be a little bit
of noise and/or smoke, but not necessarily. Pretty much simultaneously,
the circuit breaker or fuse supplying power to that part of your house
would trip/blow. It probably wouldn't be terribly exciting.
As a kid, I had the question "Can you take the volume control doohickey
out of a portable radio and use it to make a dimmer switch for a 110V
incandescent light bulb?". I performed an empirical experiment to answer
this question. It turns out that the design of my experiment was flawed,
and I actually answered the question "Can you take the frequency control
doohicky out of a portable radio and use it to make a dimmer switch for
a 110V incandescent light bulb?" But, I am confident that my results
would have been pretty much the same even if I had performed the
experiment correctly. A flash of light, a little smoke, and a blown fuse
were the outcome. I concluded that the answer to my question was "No,
at least, not this one".
--
"Fundamentalists are to Christianity what paint-by-numbers is to art." -
Robin Tyler
StarChaser Tyger
Putting 120VAC into something that's expecting 12VAC will let the magic
smoke out. It changes the voltage into what the widget being powered
wants.
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
do and don't want their work posted. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvenience of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
Sean Houtman
>Eddie G wrote:
>>
>> Regarding the power cords for printers, camcorders, etc. there is a little
>> box that the AC cord plugs into from the wall, then the other end goes into
>> the device. What is the purpose of this box (the power adapter)? What
>> would happen if the power cord went from the wall into the device without
>> the adapter? (not that it could because it is not designed to do so).
>>
>
>I'm not sure if the previous answers were very clear, so I'll chime in.
>
>
>
>The electricity at the wall outlet is 110 volts, Alternating Current
>(the voltage goes up and down, 60 times per second). This is a useful
>way to distribute electricity, but for many devices, not a useful way to
>use it. For example, the types of electronics gear you mentioned
>generally likes Direct Current (the voltage is a constant level) and
>fairly low voltages, such as 5V, 9V, 12V, 1.2V, etc.
>
>The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
>and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC, and it
>"steps down" the voltage from 110V to something the product can use.
>
So why don't they put all that transformer stuff into the printer instead of on
the wall wart thingy? I can understand why the camera may not want the extra
space or weight, but there is a lot of spare space in a printer.
Sean
--
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Address mungled. To email, please spite my face.
Bob Ward
wrote:
>From: groo gr...@groo.org
>
>>Eddie G wrote:
>>>
>>> Regarding the power cords for printers, camcorders, etc. there is a little
>>> box that the AC cord plugs into from the wall, then the other end goes into
>>> the device. What is the purpose of this box (the power adapter)? What
>>> would happen if the power cord went from the wall into the device without
>>> the adapter? (not that it could because it is not designed to do so).
>>>
>>
>>I'm not sure if the previous answers were very clear, so I'll chime in.
>>
>>
>>
>>The electricity at the wall outlet is 110 volts, Alternating Current
>>(the voltage goes up and down, 60 times per second). This is a useful
>>way to distribute electricity, but for many devices, not a useful way to
>>use it. For example, the types of electronics gear you mentioned
>>generally likes Direct Current (the voltage is a constant level) and
>>fairly low voltages, such as 5V, 9V, 12V, 1.2V, etc.
>>
>>The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
>>and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC, and it
>>"steps down" the voltage from 110V to something the product can use.
>>
>
>So why don't they put all that transformer stuff into the printer instead of on
>the wall wart thingy? I can understand why the camera may not want the extra
>space or weight, but there is a lot of spare space in a printer.
>
>Sean
As someone else mentioned, that would mean building different printers
for different markets. By making the printers identical, they can
market them all over the world wiuth the appropriate adapter, which
could be used with other products than just printers.
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> From: groo gr...@groo.org
> >The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
> >and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC, and it
> >"steps down" the voltage from 110V to something the product can use.
> So why don't they put all that transformer stuff into the printer instead of on
> the wall wart thingy? I can understand why the camera may not want the extra
> space or weight, but there is a lot of spare space in a printer.
Because if they do that, they have to make at least two different
printer models, one for North America and one for a lot of the rest of
the world. Whereas if they put it in the cord set, they only need to
make one printer model, while they use the same two transformer models
they use for every printer they sell.
Making and stocking two kinds of printers is a lot more expensive than
making one printer and using two standard transformers. And someone
with a printer can move from one zone to another without buying a new
printer, just a new transformer. Ditto laptops.
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
mil...@qnet.com
Chip C
Except that many transformers, and many built-in power supplies, are
rated for 110/220V 50/60Hz, either auto-detecting or with a little
switch, and carry approval stickers from many countries; so they're
already engineered for multiple markets. All that differs is the power
cord and packaging.
My guess is that a whole lot of electrical safety regulations (which
also vay by country) don't apply to a device that has only low DC
voltages in it, so putting the transformer external makes it a whole
lot simpler to bring your product to market.
What I'd like to see is an industry standard for DC voltage cabling
for small electronics so that we could by one big high-quality
multi-voltage power supply (with integrated UPS!), hide it under the
desk, and run only DC cables from it to each of our desktop thingies,
including the PC. The telcos do this in their datacenters and I think
I've heard of an audiophile maker doing this for their components;
surely the computer accessory markets are ripe? Maybe a big
opportunity for a Belkin or Targus?
Chip C
Toronto
Crashj
> wrote:
>
> > From: groo gr...@groo.org
>
> > >The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
> > >and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC, and it
> > >"steps down" the voltage from 110V to something the product can use.
>
> > So why don't they put all that transformer stuff into the printer instead of on
> > the wall wart thingy? I can understand why the camera may not want the extra
> > space or weight, but there is a lot of spare space in a printer.
>
> Because if they do that, they have to make at least two different
> printer models, one for North America and one for a lot of the rest of
> the world.
<>
are much less expensive that those for an actual functioning thing, so
the savings are signifigant. The design requirements to protect again
injury and fire are much greater for line voltage AC than for low
voltage DC. It is not just the testing cost, it is the product cost.
--
Crashj
Greg Goss
>What I'd like to see is an industry standard for DC voltage cabling
>for small electronics so that we could by one big high-quality
>multi-voltage power supply (with integrated UPS!), hide it under the
>desk, and run only DC cables from it to each of our desktop thingies,
>including the PC. The telcos do this in their datacenters and I think
>I've heard of an audiophile maker doing this for their components;
>surely the computer accessory markets are ripe? Maybe a big
>opportunity for a Belkin or Targus?
When a local BBS was on its way to becoming an ISP in the middle
eighties, he was at one time hosting twenty modems in his second
bedroom. Each modem ran to a row of power bricks plugged into a row
of power bars. Running a single power supply to all of the modems
would void the warranty.
I had a jack on the back of a previous computer that provided +5V to
one of the "L" brackets on the expansion ports. I then used that to
power my speakers. The speakers asked for 6 volts, but a solid supply
at 5 is close enough.
My later speakers plugged directly into the wall. They moved the
transformer and other power supply circuitry into the subwoofer.
JB
Your explanation does little to explain the existence of many appliances
containing the transformers and incorporating a 120-240 volt switch. I have
several such, including hair dryers and stereo equipment. --JB
groo
>
> Crashj wrote:
> > Yes. And to repeat the obvious, the UL qualifications for a wall wart
> > are much less expensive that those for an actual functioning thing, so
> > the savings are signifigant. The design requirements to protect again
> > injury and fire are much greater for line voltage AC than for low
> > voltage DC. It is not just the testing cost, it is the product cost.
>
> Your explanation does little to explain the existence of many appliances
> containing the transformers and incorporating a 120-240 volt switch. I have
> several such, including hair dryers and stereo equipment. --JB
Well, UL has a huge array of safety standards (
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/catalog/stdscatframe.html ), and you
have to pay for them, so I'm not going to pore through them to provide a
definitive answer. But the two examples you give have a couple of
features that make them different than electronic gadgets that use the
wall wart:
1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
2. Both hair dryers and many some pieces of stereo equipment use
significant amounts of power. If the input power was provided in the
form of low voltage DC, the current requirements would be significant.
Every wall wart I've ever seen has fairly modest current outputs
(measured in 10s or 100s of milliamps). A plastic encased wall wart
might not even work for powering a stereo receiver, as it would have
inadequate cooling.
The decision to provide an internal vs an external transformer has many
factors, and I don't think there is any single simple rule that will
explain why one is chosen over another. Safety regulations, space
requirements, manufacturing simplification, outsourcing, thermal
requirements, and customer expectations are the ones that come to mind
offhand. There are probably some others I haven't thought of.
--
"Pudding can't fill the emptiness inside me... but it'll help!" -
Captain Hank Murphy, Sealab 2021
JB
> JB wrote:
>
>>Crashj wrote:
>>>Yes. And to repeat the obvious, the UL qualifications for a wall wart
>>>are much less expensive that those for an actual functioning thing, so
>>>the savings are signifigant. The design requirements to protect again
>>>injury and fire are much greater for line voltage AC than for low
>>>voltage DC. It is not just the testing cost, it is the product cost.
>>
>>Your explanation does little to explain the existence of many appliances
>>containing the transformers and incorporating a 120-240 volt switch. I have
>>several such, including hair dryers and stereo equipment. --JB
> But the two examples you give have a couple of
> features that make them different than electronic gadgets that use the
> wall wart:
>
> 1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
*requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
other.
You are under the misimpression that power supply modules always produce DC:
"The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC..."--Groo
That is incorrect, or at least not always correct. For example, at least one
of the power supply modules under my computer table produces 15V *AC* output.
It runs my little PC speakers (no woofer).
--JB
danny burstein
>> 1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
>The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
>They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
>*requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
>other.
or more simply, just oput a diode type thingee in it to block half the
cycle. gets you close enough to 120V (equivalent) for gov't work.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Greg Goss
>In <42PDb.147281$dl.61...@twister.southeast.rr.com> JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> writes:
>
>>> 1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
>
>>The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
>>They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
>>*requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
>>other.
>
>or more simply, just oput a diode type thingee in it to block half the
>cycle. gets you close enough to 120V (equivalent) for gov't work.
Maybe for light bulbs. But the example was a hair dryer. Are AC
motors happy to see half the cycle missing?
JB
> In <42PDb.147281$dl.61...@twister.southeast.rr.com> JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> writes:
>
>
>>>1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
>
>
>>The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
>>They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
>>*requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
>>other.
>
>
> or more simply, just oput a diode type thingee in it to block half the
> cycle. gets you close enough to 120V (equivalent) for gov't work.
Perhaps you missed "a transformer or equivalent"? --JB
Blinky the Shark
> In <42PDb.147281$dl.61...@twister.southeast.rr.com> JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> writes:
>>> 1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
>>The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
>>They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
>>*requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
>>other.
> or more simply, just oput a diode type thingee in it to block half the
> cycle. gets you close enough to 120V (equivalent) for gov't work.
I have a dryer that has an adaptor-*like* box that the AC prongs stick out of,
the use of which I've never determined. It's only 1x1.5x.75 inches, and it
has not *near* the mass that transformers have. No switch -- this is
not a dual-voltage hair dryer. The heck? All I can think of is a fuse
so that if I dunk it in the tub with my bod, it'll cut power instead of making
grilled shark, but I've never read about such a device on the wall end of an
cord, and this is the only appliance I remember owning with one of these
miniboxes.
--
Blinky Linux RU 4892F
The Boulder Pledge http://blinkynet.net/spag/boulder.html
Greg Goss
>I have a dryer that has an adaptor-*like* box that the AC prongs stick out of,
>the use of which I've never determined. It's only 1x1.5x.75 inches, and it
>has not *near* the mass that transformers have. No switch -- this is
>not a dual-voltage hair dryer. The heck? All I can think of is a fuse
>so that if I dunk it in the tub with my bod, it'll cut power instead of making
>grilled shark, but I've never read about such a device on the wall end of an
>cord, and this is the only appliance I remember owning with one of these
>miniboxes.
Every hotel hair dryer has such a device on the wall end of the cord.
They have a ground fault interrupter on the wall socket, and ANOTHER
one that's part of the dryer's plug. Is there a pair of push-buttons
for "test/reset" on that box?
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> I have a dryer that has an adaptor-*like* box that the AC prongs stick out of,
> the use of which I've never determined. It's only 1x1.5x.75 inches, and it
> has not *near* the mass that transformers have. No switch -- this is
> not a dual-voltage hair dryer. The heck? All I can think of is a fuse
> so that if I dunk it in the tub with my bod, it'll cut power instead of making
> grilled shark, but I've never read about such a device on the wall end of an
> cord, and this is the only appliance I remember owning with one of these
> miniboxes.
It's a GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter and you're right, it's
to prevent grilled shark. Newish regulation or standard for hair
dryers only. It's got two little buttons on it, one marked test and
the other, probably red, not marked. Push the test button and the
other will pop out and the dryer will quit. Push to reset.
I had a dryer with one of these that would pop my wall GFCI whenever I
plugged it in. So, of course, I left the dryer plugged in, which
you're not supposed to do, to avoid the inconvenience. Great safety
device.
Blinky the Shark
> Every hotel hair dryer has such a device on the wall end of the cord.
> They have a ground fault interrupter on the wall socket, and ANOTHER
> one that's part of the dryer's plug. Is there a pair of push-buttons
> for "test/reset" on that box?
Nopers. There are a pair of round metal disks (or rod-ends) inset a
bit into the prong side of the plug, but they don't push. They look
more like they might simply be for VOM probes -- my ohm meter shows them
to be not connected in this state (and shows no path between either of
them and the prongs).
http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
Blinky the Shark
> It's a GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter and you're right, it's
> to prevent grilled shark. Newish regulation or standard for hair
> dryers only. It's got two little buttons on it, one marked test and
> the other, probably red, not marked. Push the test button and the
> other will pop out and the dryer will quit. Push to reset.
This is not a particularly new unit. See my description (and link to
photo) of what it does have, in my reply to GG, a minute or two ago.
N Jill Marsh
<no....@box.invalid>wrote:
>Nopers. There are a pair of round metal disks (or rod-ends) inset a
>bit into the prong side of the plug, but they don't push. They look
>more like they might simply be for VOM probes -- my ohm meter shows them
>to be not connected in this state (and shows no path between either of
>them and the prongs).
>
>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
Where did you buy the appliance, and how long ago? It looks a little
like it has a British type plug on the end of it. I have no idea
about the types of plugs you see in South America - is it possible you
purchased a dryer from (or intended to go to) Europe or south of your
border?
nj"it's MONSTER PLUG"m
"In the ancient Greek Tragedies it was an ironclad rule that all the real rough
stuff should take place off stage, and I shall follow this admirable principle."
Greg Goss
>Nopers. There are a pair of round metal disks (or rod-ends) inset a
>bit into the prong side of the plug, but they don't push. They look
>more like they might simply be for VOM probes -- my ohm meter shows them
>to be not connected in this state (and shows no path between either of
>them and the prongs).
>
>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
In the photo, the metal bits look more like rivets holding the
structure together.
spa...@pffcu.com
> It's a GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter and you're right, it's
> to prevent grilled shark. Newish regulation or standard for hair
> dryers only. It's got two little buttons on it, one marked test and
> the other, probably red, not marked. Push the test button and the
> other will pop out and the dryer will quit. Push to reset.
>
> I had a dryer with one of these that would pop my wall GFCI whenever I
> plugged it in. So, of course, I left the dryer plugged in, which
> you're not supposed to do, to avoid the inconvenience. Great safety
> device.
>
Hijack:
I've been doing some electrical work in the bathroom ever since the WD
sawed through a 120V line (insulated handle, she's fine)*.
It occurred to me while I was testing the GFCI outlet that I could just
try pushing the Test button on the outlet. My reasoning was that the
Test button actually introduces a short-circuit in the line and that if
there's no power to the line, the Test button won't do anything. I
stuck the tester in it anyway since I don't trust myself, but was I
reasonably close in thinking this?
*The WD is far, far "handier" than I so don't think that I'm making a
"typical woman" type statement.
--
There is nothing more irresponsible and depraved than a man in the
depths of an ether binge.
-- Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
John Dean
> On 17 Dec 2003 11:01:27 GMT, Blinky the Shark
> <no....@box.invalid>wrote:
>
>> Nopers. There are a pair of round metal disks (or rod-ends) inset a
>> bit into the prong side of the plug, but they don't push. They look
>> more like they might simply be for VOM probes -- my ohm meter shows
>> them to be not connected in this state (and shows no path between
>> either of them and the prongs).
>>
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
>
> Where did you buy the appliance, and how long ago? It looks a little
> like it has a British type plug on the end of it. I have no idea
> about the types of plugs you see in South America - is it possible you
> purchased a dryer from (or intended to go to) Europe or south of your
> border?
>
little holes in the prongs. And two-pin plugs are extremely rare here. In
the days when they were common, we were still using round pins.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Greg Goss
>>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
>That's not a plug type I've ever seen over here. We don't have the neat
>little holes in the prongs. And two-pin plugs are extremely rare here. In
>the days when they were common, we were still using round pins.
The holes and pin count are standard in North American plugs. I don't
know why they are there. Starting 25 years ago, one blade (the
further one in this pic) is wider than the other one. This controls
"hot" versus neutral for appliances where one side of the circuit is
more likely to be exposed to touch. For example, in a lamp fixture,
the side of the bulb base is connected to the neutral and the center
to hot (I believe).
Grounded items are quite rare in North America. Even power tools like
drills and saws, which were grounded when I was a child have been
replaced by two-pin connections (where they haven't been replaced by
zero-pin battery-driven tools). In normal household use, computer
stuff is usually grounded, and heavy appliances are, but otherwise
nothing much is grounded.
Fuses are in the body of electronic items (eg TVs) or don't exist at
all. Only hotel dryers have any kind of protection built into the
plug.
I've gathered the impression that over there everything is fused and
everything is grounded, while over here neither rule is used. Is this
because of the vicious testing that goes into the UL/CSA stickers?
Does the UK have a similar testing body whose logo indicates the model
surviving a battery of safety tests?
groo
>
>
> Fuses are in the body of electronic items (eg TVs) or don't exist at
> all. Only hotel dryers have any kind of protection built into the
> plug.
Not in the UK. Fuses are inside the male plug very, very often. So often
that I assume that there's a requirement that mandates it.
groo
>
> groo wrote:
>
> >
> > 1. Hair dryers typically don't use a transformer at all. They run on AC.
>
> The veracity of that statement is unclear. Transformers only work on AC.
> They don't work on DC at all. A dual-voltage (say 120/240V) AC hair dryer
> *requires* a transformer or equivalent to change from one AC voltage to the
> other.
>
As others have pointed out, there are other ways to skin that cat. Not
to say that it's impossible to put a transformer in a hair dryer, but
I'd be surprised if anyone did. You are correct in that transformers
don't fulfill much useful function in all-DC circuits.
> You are under the misimpression that power supply modules always produce DC:
>
> "The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
> and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC..."--Groo
>
> That is incorrect, or at least not always correct. For example, at least one
> of the power supply modules under my computer table produces 15V *AC* output.
> It runs my little PC speakers (no woofer).
Yeah, I'm sure that there are wall warts that do AC. The vast majority
provide DC.
Greg Goss
>Greg Goss wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Fuses are in the body of electronic items (eg TVs) or don't exist at
>> all. Only hotel dryers have any kind of protection built into the
>> plug.
>
>Not in the UK. Fuses are inside the male plug very, very often. So often
>that I assume that there's a requirement that mandates it.
That was the point of my post. "Why is UK electrical stuff more
heavily defended than US stuff?"
James Gifford
> That was the point of my post. "Why is UK electrical stuff more
> heavily defended than US stuff?"
Because Americans just don't care about other Americans.
And because while 120 VAC is deadly, 240 VAC is deadlier.
--
| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
Bob Ward
That plug is definitely cofigured to fit a USA-an 120V socket.
Bob Ward
Lucas Electrics.
Warm Beer
StarChaser Tyger
>Greg Goss wrote:
>
>> Every hotel hair dryer has such a device on the wall end of the cord.
>
>> They have a ground fault interrupter on the wall socket, and ANOTHER
>> one that's part of the dryer's plug. Is there a pair of push-buttons
>> for "test/reset" on that box?
>
>Nopers. There are a pair of round metal disks (or rod-ends) inset a
>bit into the prong side of the plug, but they don't push. They look
>more like they might simply be for VOM probes -- my ohm meter shows them
>to be not connected in this state (and shows no path between either of
>them and the prongs).
>
>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
I think it's just a right-angle plug <cord naturally comes out the
bottom instead of sticking straight out the back>, and the little disks
are rivets.
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
do and don't want their work posted. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvenience of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
StarChaser Tyger
>
>You are under the misimpression that power supply modules always produce DC:
>
>"The little box performs two main functions. It contains a transformer
>and other circuitry which converts the electricity from AC to DC..."--Groo
>
>That is incorrect, or at least not always correct. For example, at least one
>of the power supply modules under my computer table produces 15V *AC* output.
> It runs my little PC speakers (no woofer).
He was talking specifically about the laptop power supply, not supplies
in general.
StarChaser Tyger
>I've been doing some electrical work in the bathroom ever since the WD
>sawed through a 120V line (insulated handle, she's fine)*.
WD? Weapon of Destruction?
Greg Goss
>spa...@pffcu.com wrote:
>
>>I've been doing some electrical work in the bathroom ever since the WD
>>sawed through a 120V line (insulated handle, she's fine)*.
>
>WD? Weapon of Destruction?
I was going to ask, but didn't want to look foolish. Of course he
wisely avoids referring to his wife's mass. That way lies
destruction.
I've been assuming something like "Wifie Dearest"
John Dean
I'm pretty certain it's down to legislation. If you're desperate to know
*which* legislation, you'd have to Google yourself. In my formative years,
plugs here were round-pin, two or three pronged and rarely fused. Now
they're square pin, three-pronged and invariably fused. Many appliances
come with a moulded plug that humans cannot access inside of. Our latest
freezer came like that. If you want to extend the cord, you buy an extension
module. No cutting and splicing like the old days. And ALL appliances must
come with pre-fitted plugs, whether moulded or conventional. That's been a
legal requirement for some years. I recollect I seemed to be wiring plugs
all the time once and now I haven't looked inside a plug for years. I
remember when they changed the colour scheme for wiring inside plugs. Used
to be
Red - Live
Black - Neutral
Green - Earth
Which made sense. Red for Danger! Black for ... um ... absence of danger.
Green for the Good earth.
They changed it to
Brown - Live
Blue - Neutral
Green & Yellow stripes - Earth
I never knew why. people used to complain that they had all manner of useful
aides-memoire and mnemonics for the old system but were struggling to find
any for the new. I think the best suggestion was:
"Brown - Live, Blue - Neutral, Green & Yellow stripes - Earth. Memorise
this, or you will kill yourself one day"
Not catchy but definite value for money
Greg Goss
>Yeah, I'm sure that there are wall warts that do AC. The vast majority
>provide DC.
My first calculator used an AC adapter. A diode in the calc blocked
that to half-time DC. The calc depended on its NiCd battery to even
out the voltage.
Greg Goss
>Many appliances
>come with a moulded plug that humans cannot access inside of. Our latest
>freezer came like that.
Almost all NA cords have been cast plastic since before I was born.
Since we don't have any fuses in them, there is no reason to get into
them. The only plugs you can open are ones where the original plug
got wrecked and we had to attach a new one.
>If you want to extend the cord, you buy an extension
>module. No cutting and splicing like the old days.
We've always used extension cords. ("Extension cord" includes the
plug and usually a triple outlet). Nobody spliced unless you go way
back before my youth.
>And ALL appliances must
>come with pre-fitted plugs, whether moulded or conventional. That's been a
>legal requirement for some years. I recollect I seemed to be wiring plugs
>all the time once and now I haven't looked inside a plug for years.
I'm moving in two days. My wife wants me to throw stuff away. I
tossed a big box of wiring I haven't looked into since the eighties.
>I
>remember when they changed the colour scheme for wiring inside plugs. Used
>to be
>
>Red - Live
>Black - Neutral
>Green - Earth
>
>Which made sense. Red for Danger! Black for ... um ... absence of danger.
>Green for the Good earth.
North America AC:
Green - Ground ("GR". I think it's just a spelling clue)
Black - Hot
Red - Hot the other way.
White - Neutral.
If you need 220 Volts for a high power device (stove or dryer or
water heater), you use red and black.
North America low-voltage DC:
Red: Hot positive
Black: Negative Ground.
You see the problem when we train kids in nice safe DC first?
>They changed it to
>
>Brown - Live
>Blue - Neutral
>Green & Yellow stripes - Earth
>
>I never knew why. people used to complain that they had all manner of useful
>aides-memoire and mnemonics for the old system but were struggling to find
>any for the new. I think the best suggestion was:
>
>"Brown - Live, Blue - Neutral, Green & Yellow stripes - Earth. Memorise
>this, or you will kill yourself one day"
Stripes? for a three-wire system? Are the standards set by a
committee? By a sane committee?
Crashj
> sawed through a 120V line (insulated handle, she's fine)*.
>
> It occurred to me while I was testing the GFCI outlet that I could just
> try pushing the Test button on the outlet.
<>
back in the supply box.
"you push the red button. Nothing happens."
--
Crashj
JB
Because there is greater hazard exposure in UK systems.
UK small power outlets operate at 240 volts, generally taken single-phase
(line to neutral) from a relatively large 415 volt 3-phase system which
serves heavier loads on the premises, or which serves multiple dwellings.
This means that the potential short circuit current available at an outlet is
the same as the short circuit current available on the large system; this
fault current can be quite large, on the order of 50,000 amps.
US-style small power outlets operate at 120 volts, generally taken line to
neutral from a relatively small 120/240 volt single phase system whose power
is derived via a relatively small transformer fed from a larger (480 volts or
higher) 3-phase system. The transformer serves as a restrictor to short
circuit currents, such that the potential short circuit current available at
an outlet is fairly small, on the order of 5,000 amps.
Energy release at point of fault is proportional to the square of the
current, so the 50,000 amp fault will release 100 times the energy at point
of fault as will the 5,000 amp fault. In addition to greater electrocution
hazard, the higher-energy fault introduces a high degree of flash burn
hazard, which is almost nonexistent in the lower-energy fault.
In recognition of the greater hazard, the UK system employs small,
fast-acting fuses in the wall outlets or in the cord plugs to try to prevent
fault currents from building to ultimate levels upon fault occurrence.
--JB
JB
> "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
>
>
>>That's not a plug type I've ever seen over here. We don't have the neat
>>little holes in the prongs. And two-pin plugs are extremely rare here. In
>>the days when they were common, we were still using round pins.
> The holes and pin count are standard in North American plugs. I don't
> know why they are there. Starting 25 years ago, one blade (the
> further one in this pic) is wider than the other one. This controls
> "hot" versus neutral for appliances where one side of the circuit is
> more likely to be exposed to touch. For example, in a lamp fixture,
> the side of the bulb base is connected to the neutral and the center
> to hot (I believe).
>
> Grounded items are quite rare in North America. Even power tools like
> drills and saws, which were grounded when I was a child have been
> replaced by two-pin connections (where they haven't been replaced by
> zero-pin battery-driven tools). In normal household use, computer
> stuff is usually grounded, and heavy appliances are, but otherwise
> nothing much is grounded.
Those old drills and saws had metal housings which could accidentally become
energized due to internal failure and which therefore had to be grounded.
Modern drills and saws, if not provided with a separate ground wire, have all
their internal wiring encased in plastic or other insulating material such
that no external part may become accidentally energized. Computer stuff and
heavy appliances usually have metal exteriors which can become accidentally
energized due to an internal component failure and thus are required to be
grounded.
> Fuses are in the body of electronic items (eg TVs) or don't exist at
> all. Only hotel dryers have any kind of protection built into the
> plug.
Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
> I've gathered the impression that over there everything is fused and
> everything is grounded, while over here neither rule is used. Is this
> because of the vicious testing that goes into the UL/CSA stickers?
> Does the UK have a similar testing body whose logo indicates the model
> surviving a battery of safety tests?
British Standards Institution
http://www.bsi-global.com/index.xalter
--JB
Blinky the Shark
> On 17 Dec 2003 11:01:27 GMT, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid>wrote:
>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
> Where did you buy the appliance, and how long ago? It looks a little
Somewhere in Los Angeles; probably in the early nineties.
> like it has a British type plug on the end of it. I have no idea
> about the types of plugs you see in South America - is it possible you
> purchased a dryer from (or intended to go to) Europe or south of your
> border?
Nope.
Blinky the Shark
> "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
Broken attributions, so I will add -- Blinky said:
>>>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
>>That's not a plug type I've ever seen over here. We don't have the neat
>>little holes in the prongs. And two-pin plugs are extremely rare here. In
>>the days when they were common, we were still using round pins.
> The holes and pin count are standard in North American plugs. I don't
> know why they are there. Starting 25 years ago, one blade (the
Either Cecil or David Feldman has done something on the blade holes.
> further one in this pic) is wider than the other one. This controls
Much of the time; not always. I've noticed that the transformer boxes
that started this thread sometime have same-sized blades. I just looked
at the converter for my Nintendo Gameboy SP Advanced (introduced 2003),
and they're the same size, for instance.
Blinky the Shark
>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
I never considered them anything electrical, until someone(s) mentioned
pairs of buttons. Just thought I'd cover all bases, once such suggestions
were made, and check 'em fershure.
JB
> Greg Goss wrote:
>>"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>>>>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/dryer.jpg
Polarized plugs (where plug blades are different widths, forcing a single
orientation when inserting into plug sockets) are used where polarity
matters. eg, as someone has earlier mentioned, plugs for table lamps, where
it is preferred that the 'hot' wire go to the bulb base and the 'neutral'
wire go to the bulb threads. It is almost hazard-free for a person to
contact neutral, quite the opposite with contacting 'hot'. It is considered
more likely than not that people, inadvisedly sticking their fingers into an
empty bulb socket, may contact the bulb threads than the bulb base contact.
If they reach all the way to the bottom of the bulb socket, they deserve what
they get. If people would refrain from sticking fingers into bulb sockets,
polarity wouldn't be an issue.
Note that the entire subject of polarized plugs depends on a coordinated
premises wiring system, such that a presumed-neutral polarized lamp or
extension cord wire will definitely be connected to a neutral premises wiring
conductor.
If an equipment has a nonpolarized plug, ie, the plug blades are same size,
then it has been determined that polarity is immaterial to safety or
operation. No hazard or misoperation is caused regardless of plug
orientation in the wall socket. This is common with totally insulated
devices such as epoxy-encapsulated power supply modules.
The holes in US AC plug blades are part of a simple physical engagement
system. The socket tines which electrically contact the plug blades have
corresponding bumps which engage the holes, creating a slight grip in
resistance to plug fallout or removal.
--JB
StarChaser Tyger
>StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>>spa...@pffcu.com wrote:
>>
>>>I've been doing some electrical work in the bathroom ever since the WD
>>>sawed through a 120V line (insulated handle, she's fine)*.
>>
>>WD? Weapon of Destruction?
>
>I was going to ask, but didn't want to look foolish. Of course he
>wisely avoids referring to his wife's mass. That way lies
>destruction.
It was my turn to take one for the team...
>I've been assuming something like "Wifie Dearest"
Duh. Never occurred to me...
StarChaser Tyger
>Much of the time; not always. I've noticed that the transformer boxes
>that started this thread sometime have same-sized blades. I just looked
>at the converter for my Nintendo Gameboy SP Advanced (introduced 2003),
>and they're the same size, for instance.
Yeah, I've got a set of cordless speakers, each with it's own wall-wart,
and I just plugged one of them in umopep!sdn because I needed to get at
the bottom jack.
StarChaser Tyger
>The holes in US AC plug blades are part of a simple physical engagement
>system. The socket tines which electrically contact the plug blades have
>corresponding bumps which engage the holes, creating a slight grip in
>resistance to plug fallout or removal.
OTW:IF
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_389.html
Quoth Cecil from whom all knowledge flows:
"You will be distressed to learn this, Dan, but I dunno. Engineers have
been sticking holes in the prongs of plugs for so long--there is an
undercurrent of sexual imagery here that I am studiously going to
ignore--that they have forgotten why they started. An expert at
Underwriters Laboratories says the holes are a by-product of the
manufacturing process: they're needed to hold the prongs in place while
the plastic part of the plug is molded around them. A guy from General
Electric, however, says the purpose of the holes is to dissipate the
heat generated by the flow of electricity. The UL guy says the GE guy is
nuts. A third engineer from a smaller electrical manufacturing firm
agrees with the UL guy. He says originally there were little nubbins
inside the--ahem--"female" connector (i.e., the socket) that clicked
onto the holes when the plug was shoved in to keep it from pulling out.
(UL won't OK a socket if a plug comes out with a pull of less than three
pounds.) But nubbins aren't needed anymore because of improved socket
design, and now the holes are just a manufacturing convenience.
Two-thirds of the voters thus opt for convenience, so I guess we'll have
to go with that. I've heard of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
before, but this is ridiculous."
Richard Hoskins
> JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
>
>>The holes in US AC plug blades are part of a simple physical engagement
>>system. The socket tines which electrically contact the plug blades have
>>corresponding bumps which engage the holes, creating a slight grip in
>>resistance to plug fallout or removal.
>
> OTW:IF
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_389.html
>
> Quoth Cecil from whom all knowledge flows:
[...]
I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
disruption in electron flow.
The more expensive the better is the rule of thumb, but I wouldn't
push it past, say, US$200 per plug.
--
Lift me down, so I can make the Earth tremble.
--Bucky Katt
Blinky the Shark
> Yeah, I've got a set of cordless speakers, each with it's own wall-wart,
> and I just plugged one of them in umopep!sdn because I needed to get at
> the bottom jack.
Coicidentally, I have a large box of speakerless cords.
spa...@pffcu.com
Right, I did not expect it to pop the breaker. But if I had already
gone downstairs and flipped the breaker off, then the Test button
should not do anything at all, correct?
--
I had another dream the other day about music critics. They were small
and rodent-like with padlocked ears, as if they had stepped out of a
painting by Goya.
-- Stravinsky
groo
>
> >If you want to extend the cord, you buy an extension
> >module. No cutting and splicing like the old days.
>
> We've always used extension cords. ("Extension cord" includes the
> plug and usually a triple outlet). Nobody spliced unless you go way
> back before my youth.
Only for certain values of "nobody". I still will splice on a longer
cord in some instances, and have done so for years. If a cord is too
short, I prefer to just open up the thingy and put on a whole new cord.
And I do use extension cords. But to say that nobody splices isn't
right. I was particularly inclined to do this when I lived in the UK,
since extension cords seemed to be massivly overpriced.
I also did some cord mutation when I lived in the UK. I had some US
equipment which was able to run on 110 or 220, but the male plugs were
all North American style, so I had to cut them off and put on the UK
three prongers. It was a lot cheaper than buying a bunch of adaptors.
groo
>
>
> Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
> protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
> to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
>
The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
bathroom at all.
groo
> Much of the time; not always. I've noticed that the transformer boxes
> that started this thread sometime have same-sized blades. I just looked
> at the converter for my Nintendo Gameboy SP Advanced (introduced 2003),
> and they're the same size, for instance.
Not only that, but it has one of the all time smart features for a
portable device - the prongs can fold into the body of the wall wart, so
it's easy to pack up for transport. I love my GBA SP!*
Any good GBA game recommendations? I've finished Metroid Fusion and
Castlevania:Harmony of Dissonance and loved them both. Found Buffy:WotDK
to be unplayable, and my Donkey Kong Country is OK, but won't save
games. Currently messing with a cheapo FPS (Wolfenstein) with crappy
graphics that won't interest me for long.
* Any Nintendo folks out there, here's my wish list for things you could
do to make this an even better machine:
1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature stereo
jack. WTF were you thinking?
2. Provide standard size cartridges that will hold lotsa flash memory
(512MB or more) & a USB connector, and make the GBA also function as an
MP3 player. This would be the killer travel companion! I could either
listen to music, or play a game, depending on which cartridge I plug in.
3. Make a cartridge that incorporates some PDA-like functions -
calendar, address book, etc. GBA's aren't just for kids.
groo
>
>
> Right, I did not expect it to pop the breaker. But if I had already
> gone downstairs and flipped the breaker off, then the Test button
> should not do anything at all, correct?
Correct.
StarChaser Tyger
>JB wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
>> protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
>> to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
>>
>
>The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
>in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
>the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
>bathroom at all.
A lot of old US houses did that, too. Or the only power outlet was in
the base of the light, above the mirror where you'd -really- have to
work to get water in it...
StarChaser Tyger
>1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature stereo
>jack. WTF were you thinking?
That they can then sell headphones that you can't get anywhere else.
Captive market.
StarChaser Tyger
>I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
>audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
>disruption in electron flow.
Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
for 48 hours will buy anything...
>The more expensive the better is the rule of thumb, but I wouldn't
>push it past, say, US$200 per plug.
Then after they've bought them, sell them the special oxygen free,
plated in Soundonium ones...
Blinky the Shark
> Not only that, but it has one of the all time smart features for a
> portable device - the prongs can fold into the body of the wall wart, so
> it's easy to pack up for transport. I love my GBA SP!*
It sure does. I had something else with that feature, too -- I think that
was probably a cell phone charger.
> Any good GBA game recommendations? I've finished Metroid Fusion and
> Castlevania:Harmony of Dissonance and loved them both. Found Buffy:WotDK
> to be unplayable, and my Donkey Kong Country is OK, but won't save
> games. Currently messing with a cheapo FPS (Wolfenstein) with crappy
> graphics that won't interest me for long.
Nopers. I won it, and it came with Bomberman 2. I've never bought
anything else for it. That kind of graphics doesn't interest me for
long, either.
Opus the Penguin
> groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>
>>1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature
>>stereo jack. WTF were you thinking?
>
> That they can then sell headphones that you can't get anywhere
> else. Captive market.
How hard would it be for a third party manufacturer to produce a
converter jack? (Should I stop calling you Jack?)
--
Opus the Penguin (that's my real email addy)
You snipped my sig!
groo
>
> Richard Hoskins <r...@apk.net> wrote:
>
> >I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
> >audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
> >disruption in electron flow.
>
> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
> for 48 hours will buy anything...
Did you just make this up, or are there really people who believe this?
James Gifford
>> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
>> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
>> for 48 hours will buy anything...
> Did you just make this up, or are there really people who believe this?
He may well have made it up, but these are audio freeks we're talking
about... I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a contingent in that
group that believes that cables have to be "conditioned" in some way,
probably by playing the special tone combinations on a $250 CD - no, make
that a $250 audiophile LP - for 48 hours straight. At high volume, or it
won't work.
--
| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
Opus the Penguin
> Richard Hoskins <r...@apk.net> wrote:
>
>>I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
>>audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
>>disruption in electron flow.
>
> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
> for 48 hours will buy anything...
Ok, who fell for that one?
Lalbert1
<n...@nitrosyncretic.kom> writes:
>groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>>> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
>>> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
>>> for 48 hours will buy anything...
>
>> Did you just make this up, or are there really people who believe this?
>He may well have made it up, but these are audio freeks we're talking
>about... I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a contingent in that
>group that believes that cables have to be "conditioned" in some way,
>probably by playing the special tone combinations on a $250 CD - no, make
>that a $250 audiophile LP - for 48 hours straight. At high volume, or it
>won't work.
Go to http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/reallifeopt.htm and see what some
audiophiles have to say about a particular brand of cable, as well as
conditioning the cables. I tend to disbelieve it (the web site is the only one
I have ever seen where the side bar of links moves down the page as you
scroll).
Les
Greg Goss
>groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>
>>The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
>>in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
>>the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
>>bathroom at all.
>
>A lot of old US houses did that, too. Or the only power outlet was in
>the base of the light, above the mirror where you'd -really- have to
>work to get water in it...
I think that the rules prior to GFCI circuitry required an isolation
transformer that didn't provide much current. I think that this is
why such outlets said "razor only".
groo
I like the side bar links. I have seen another site or two that does
this.
Some real winners here. I did a quick skim. One guy talked about
"conditioning" his new speaker wires (but wasn't specific about the
music he conditioned them with), and multiple ones raved about the great
improvements with adding new power cables. My favorite was the guy who
heard a great improvement when he replaced an optical cable with a
"digital cable".
I need to harvest this site for email addresses, so I can do some direct
marketing. These people will love my line of "Placebotronic 3000XL-5"
cables, power cords, and tiewraps. Now with Super Scrubbing Bubbles!
groo
>
> In article <3FE1DA54...@groo.org>, groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
> > > protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
> > > to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
> >
> > The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
> > in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
> > the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
> > bathroom at all.
>
> etc.?
They don't. A shaggy, unkempt, halitosis ridden lot, they are. Like the
Freedoms, but with worse weather.
Opus the Penguin
> groo wrote:
>>
>>
>> The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V
>> outlets in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban,
>> but most of the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical
>> outlets in the bathroom at all.
>
> How do UKans power shavers, hairdryers, curling irons, electric
> toothbrushes, etc.?
>
Have you ever SEEN a UKan?
--
Opus the Penguin (that's my real email addy)
You snipped my sig!
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <nospa...@netzero.net> wrote:
>> ebe...@tampabay.ARE-ARE.com.unmunge (Hactar) wrote:
>>
>> > groo wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having
>> >> 230V outlets in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an
>> >> actual ban, but most of the flats we looked at in Glasgow had
>> >> no electrical outlets in the bathroom at all.
>> >
>> > How do UKans power shavers, hairdryers, curling irons, electric
>> > toothbrushes, etc.?
>>
>> Have you ever SEEN a UKan?
>
> Straight, wet hair, bad teeth, messy beard -- izzat the guy?
>
You got him. As a checksum, look for the black socks that have fallen
down around his ankles. The Brits never got the complete memo on why it
was ok to stop using garters.
Lalbert1
The tie-wraps sound interesting. Please send literature.
On a related note, many years ago, before somebody thought of specialized
speaker cables, a guy I knew was telling me about his neighbor breaking-in his
new high fidelity speakers. The neighbor would play them at top volume for
several hours (I think the police were summoned) so that the speaker cones
would reproduce sound better.
Les
Les
JB
> JB wrote:
>
>
>>Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
>>protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
>>to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
>>
>
>
> The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
> in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
> the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
> bathroom at all.
That seems a bit shortsighted, as it will only impel people to drag extension
cords into the bathroom -- a greater hazard than a well-conceived,
power-limited, GFCI outlet.
--JB
JB
> groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>
>
>>JB wrote:
>>
>>>Home hair dryers and portable space heaters are now being sold with GFCI
>>>protection incorporated in their cord plugs. These are items judged likely
>>>to be used in wet locations (bathrooms).
>>>
>>
>>The UK also seemed to have some kind of ban against having 230V outlets
>>in bathrooms at all. I don't know if it is an actual ban, but most of
>>the flats we looked at in Glasgow had no electrical outlets in the
>>bathroom at all.
>
>
> A lot of old US houses did that, too. Or the only power outlet was in
> the base of the light, above the mirror where you'd -really- have to
> work to get water in it...
Getting water into the outlet isn't the concern. It's getting water into the
appliance which is plugged in to the outlet that is the concern.
Those old combination light + outlet fixtures were simply a construction
costsaver. --JB
Incredible Rhyme Animal
>Those old combination light + outlet fixtures were simply a construction
>costsaver. --JB
I suspect the majority of them were built before electric razors and
toothbrushes and hair dryers, as well.
JB
> JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
>
>
>>The holes in US AC plug blades are part of a simple physical engagement
>>system. The socket tines which electrically contact the plug blades have
>>corresponding bumps which engage the holes, creating a slight grip in
>>resistance to plug fallout or removal.
>
>
> OTW:IF
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_389.html
>
> Quoth Cecil from whom all knowledge flows:
> A third engineer from a smaller electrical manufacturing firm
> agrees with the UL guy. He says originally there were little nubbins
> inside the--ahem--"female" connector (i.e., the socket) that clicked
> onto the holes when the plug was shoved in to keep it from pulling out.
> (UL won't OK a socket if a plug comes out with a pull of less than three
> pounds.) But nubbins aren't needed anymore because of improved socket
> design, and now the holes are just a manufacturing convenience.
Those nubbins still exist, at least in the outlet device I just destructively
inspected. --JB
JB
I only recall slots that said "razor blades only", ostensibly to prevent
people from dropping hot matches into them. Most of those slots had no
associated bin; the blades simply dropped to the bottom of the hollow wall
cavity. --JB
Alan Hamilton
wrote:
>StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>> groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>>
>>>1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature
>>>stereo jack. WTF were you thinking?
>>
>> That they can then sell headphones that you can't get anywhere
>> else. Captive market.
>
>How hard would it be for a third party manufacturer to produce a
>converter jack? (Should I stop calling you Jack?)
Did they patent their jack design? That's the typical way to keep
outsiders out.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@arizonaroads.com
Greg Goss
>StarChaser Tyger wrote:
>
>> OTW:IF
>> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_389.html
>>
>> Quoth Cecil from whom all knowledge flows:
>
>> A third engineer from a smaller electrical manufacturing firm
>> agrees with the UL guy. He says originally there were little nubbins
>> inside the--ahem--"female" connector (i.e., the socket) that clicked
>> onto the holes when the plug was shoved in to keep it from pulling out.
>> (UL won't OK a socket if a plug comes out with a pull of less than three
>> pounds.) But nubbins aren't needed anymore because of improved socket
>> design, and now the holes are just a manufacturing convenience.
>
>Those nubbins still exist, at least in the outlet device I just destructively
>inspected. --JB
Should we call you "Grafenberg" from here on in? Since you found the
active nubbin.
Blinky the Shark
> I only recall slots that said "razor blades only", ostensibly to
> prevent people from dropping hot matches into them. Most of those
> slots had no associated bin; the blades simply dropped to the bottom
> of the hollow wall cavity. --JB
Do contemporary cabinets no longer feature blade disposal slots?
StarChaser Tyger
>StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>> groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>>
>>>1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature
>>>stereo jack. WTF were you thinking?
>>
>> That they can then sell headphones that you can't get anywhere
>> else. Captive market.
>
>How hard would it be for a third party manufacturer to produce a
>converter jack? (Should I stop calling you Jack?)
Probably not very difficult, but it would be costly to tool up to do so,
for a limited audience.
StarChaser Tyger
>StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>> Richard Hoskins <r...@apk.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
>>>audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
>>>disruption in electron flow.
>>
>> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
>> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
>> for 48 hours will buy anything...
>
>Ok, who fell for that one?
I can't find it on Gooja now, but Long Ago BGG <Before Google Groups> on
the newsgroup rec.antiques.radio+phono, there was a discussion about
them. Silver cables that were one-directional and if you connected them
backward, it phuqued them up and they had to be reconditioned.
Re/Conditioning was by playing Big Band music for 48 hours.
StarChaser Tyger
I never saw one that said that, but I never looked that closely, so it
may have. Not that anyone paid attention to them...
StarChaser Tyger
>StarChaser Tyger wrote:
>>
>> Richard Hoskins <r...@apk.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I bet you could manufacture plugs-without-holes, and market them to
>> >audiophiles, on the premise that the holes cause some sort of
>> >disruption in electron flow.
>>
>> Heehee...you probably could. Anyone who thinks that a speaker cable
>> needs to be conditioned by playing a certain type of music through it
>> for 48 hours will buy anything...
>Did you just make this up, or are there really people who believe this?
No, and yes. Was a discussion a while ago on rec.antiques.radio+phono
about some 'special' silver cables that were one-directional <you had to
connect them the right way, or they didn't sound right> AND you had to
play big band music through them constantly to condition them. And if
you connected them backward, you had to recondition them again.
SoCalMike
> I also did some cord mutation when I lived in the UK. I had some US
> equipment which was able to run on 110 or 220,
like what? the only thing i can recall running across thats switchable is my
computer's power supply.
SoCalMike
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnbu513o....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
> JB wrote:
>
> > I only recall slots that said "razor blades only", ostensibly to
> > prevent people from dropping hot matches into them. Most of those
> > slots had no associated bin; the blades simply dropped to the bottom
> > of the hollow wall cavity. --JB
>
> Do contemporary cabinets no longer feature blade disposal slots?
nah. they've invented little trash cans since then
Sean Houtman
>Yes. And to repeat the obvious, the UL qualifications for a wall wart
>are much less expensive that those for an actual functioning thing, so
>the savings are signifigant. The design requirements to protect again
>injury and fire are much greater for line voltage AC than for low
>voltage DC. It is not just the testing cost, it is the product cost.
This does make acceptable sense. It still is a bother.
Sean
--
Visit my photolog page; http://members.aol.com/grommit383/myhomepage
Last updated 08-04-02 with 15 pictures of the Aztec Ruins.
Address mungled. To email, please spite my face.
spa...@pffcu.com
> StarChaser Tyger wrote:
>> OTW:IF
>> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_389.html
>>
>> Quoth Cecil from whom all knowledge flows:
>
>> A third engineer from a smaller electrical manufacturing firm
>> agrees with the UL guy. He says originally there were little nubbins
>> inside the--ahem--"female" connector (i.e., the socket) that clicked
>> onto the holes when the plug was shoved in to keep it from pulling out.
>> (UL won't OK a socket if a plug comes out with a pull of less than three
>> pounds.) But nubbins aren't needed anymore because of improved socket
>> design, and now the holes are just a manufacturing convenience.
>
> Those nubbins still exist, at least in the outlet device I just destructively
> inspected. --JB
>
You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time.
I vote we give JB the Golden Spectacles of Perception.
--
There is nothing more irresponsible and depraved than a man in the
depths of an ether binge.
-- Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
James Gifford
A lot of newer power supplies (mostly for electronic gear, but also for
shavers and other portable/travel items) will run on either 120 or 240, and
either 50 or 60 Hz, and are automatically switching. Just plug it in with
the right cord and compute, shave, or whatever. This is a nearly impossible
trick with transformer-based power supplies, but trivial with an electronic
switching one. You just change the switching characteristics of the
conversion circuit.
James Gifford
> No, and yes. Was a discussion a while ago on rec.antiques.radio+phono
> about some 'special' silver cables that were one-directional <you had to
> connect them the right way, or they didn't sound right> AND you had to
> play big band music through them constantly to condition them. And if
> you connected them backward, you had to recondition them again.
You have got to be shitting us. I thought I'd long ago grasped the extent
of audiophile idiocy.
Mary Shafer
> Go to http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/reallifeopt.htm and see what some
> audiophiles have to say about a particular brand of cable, as well as
> conditioning the cables. I tend to disbelieve it (the web site is the only one
> I have ever seen where the side bar of links moves down the page as you
> scroll).
Why does this remind me of the green felt-tip on the CD?
Do they really believe this?
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
mil...@qnet.com
Lalbert1
<mil...@qnet.com> writes:
>On 18 Dec 2003 19:08:35 GMT, lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1) wrote:
>
>> Go to http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/reallifeopt.htm and see what some
>> audiophiles have to say about a particular brand of cable, as well as
>> conditioning the cables. I tend to disbelieve it (the web site is the only
one
>> I have ever seen where the side bar of links moves down the page as you
>> scroll).
>Why does this remind me of the green felt-tip on the CD?
>
>Do they really believe this?
"No one ever went broke overestimating the gullibility of the American public."
Les
StarChaser Tyger
>StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> No, and yes. Was a discussion a while ago on rec.antiques.radio+phono
>> about some 'special' silver cables that were one-directional <you had to
>> connect them the right way, or they didn't sound right> AND you had to
>> play big band music through them constantly to condition them. And if
>> you connected them backward, you had to recondition them again.
>
>You have got to be shitting us. I thought I'd long ago grasped the extent
>of audiophile idiocy.
To borrow a phrase from Huey, This is No Shit.
Huey Callison
> StarChaser Tyger <starc...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> No, and yes. Was a discussion a while ago on rec.antiques.radio+phono
>> about some 'special' silver cables that were one-directional <you had to
>> connect them the right way, or they didn't sound right> AND you had to
>> play big band music through them constantly to condition them. And if
>> you connected them backward, you had to recondition them again.
> You have got to be shitting us. I thought I'd long ago grasped the extent
> of audiophile idiocy.
Oh, you poor bastard.
Admit it: you don't have a big band CD. No _wonder_ your stereo sounds
like hell.
Okay, here's what you need to do.
First: buy this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002WRM
Then, put that in the CD player (if you only have a single-disc player,
use Disc 2), put it on 'infinite repeat', turn the volume up to about
halfway, and leave that on for at least 48 hours. If the power goes out
while this is happening, you'll have to start over, so you might want to
put a UPS on the stereo.
And then you'll be goin' to Michigan to see the sweetest girl in Kalamazoo
zoozoo zoo zoo zoo zoo, and your stereo will sound much much nicer.
--
Huey
Patrick Friedel
> Any good GBA game recommendations? I've finished Metroid Fusion and
> Castlevania:Harmony of Dissonance and loved them both. Found Buffy:WotDK
> to be unplayable, and my Donkey Kong Country is OK, but won't save
> games. Currently messing with a cheapo FPS (Wolfenstein) with crappy
> graphics that won't interest me for long.
You could give Advance Wars (1 or 2, you don't really need to play
in any order) or Final Fantasy Tactics Advance a shot for fairly light
strategy, alternately Wario Ware is highly recommended.
> * Any Nintendo folks out there, here's my wish list for things you could
> do to make this an even better machine:
>
> 1. Make the headphone jack a standard miniature or subminiature stereo
> jack. WTF were you thinking?
From the pictures of the board that I've seen on lik-sang.com's site
(notably http://image.lik-sang.com/images/large/gbasp-release-19.jpg
more at http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=2821 ), there really
doesn't look like there's much space to put any sort of durable jack
in the SP form factor. The cartridge takes up the lower third of the
bottom and the battery impinges on the upper two thirds. Eh, I've
learned to live without - I can turn off the sound if I'm in a public
place easily enough, and 3rd party headphone adaptors can be had for
relatively cheap. I think I have 2 or 3 floating around at this
point.
> 2. Provide standard size cartridges that will hold lotsa flash memory
> (512MB or more) & a USB connector, and make the GBA also function as an
> MP3 player. This would be the killer travel companion! I could either
> listen to music, or play a game, depending on which cartridge I plug in.
They're out there. They mostly suck. They use the GBA for, IIRC,
display, controls and power, while audio comes out of an internal
headphone jack. I don't think any of them are expandable. I don't
know _why_ they all suck, but I'm guessing the problem is that for $50
you can make a reasonable piece of kit that is a stand alone hardware
MP3 player. Nobody wants to spend the additional $20 interfacing it
to a GBA. So they lose the memory expansion slot or the better
quality MP3 decoder or they're just cheap, who knows. The GBA itself
isn't really capable of MP3 playback, unfortunately.
> 3. Make a cartridge that incorporates some PDA-like functions -
> calendar, address book, etc. GBA's aren't just for kids.
I'm actually kinda surprised that nobody has written miniapps like
this for the flashcart development environments. The only hitch I can
think of is that the flash carts only have 256k writable memory, or
thereabouts.
--
Patrick Friedel
Mike Brandt
> Okay, here's what you need to do.
> First: buy this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002WRM
> Then, put that in the CD player (if you only have a single-disc player,
> use Disc 2), put it on 'infinite repeat', turn the volume up to about
> halfway, and leave that on for at least 48 hours. If the power goes out
> while this is happening, you'll have to start over, so you might want to
> put a UPS on the stereo.
>
> And then you'll be goin' to Michigan to see the sweetest girl in Kalamazoo
> zoozoo zoo zoo zoo zoo, and your stereo will sound much much nicer.
For a quicker, more universal solution, buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000089JE
Play it for only 5 minutes! Now everything else that you hear will
sound much much nicer, whether it's on your stereo or not.
--
Mike Brandt
groo
Definitely the computer. I had some lamps which I rewired to use new
bulb sockets and new plugs. I think my synthesizer (musical) also took
both.
--
"Pudding can't fill the emptiness inside me... but it'll help!" -
Captain Hank Murphy, Sealab 2021
groo
>
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >I think that the rules prior to GFCI circuitry required an isolation
> >transformer that didn't provide much current. I think that this is
> >why such outlets said "razor only".
>
> I never saw one that said that, but I never looked that closely, so it
> may have. Not that anyone paid attention to them...
They are quite common, particularly in hotels.