Cristo, Central Park, and the Sierra Club
Lord Jubjub
shine.
This is a temporary thing. What exactly is their objection other than a
hatred of things commercial?
<deep breath>
But, hey, what do I care. I live in Houston.
--
Leader of the Slithy Toves
Greg Goss
>My instinct is to tell the Sierra Club to stick it where the sun don't
>shine.
OBJECTION! Lack of foundation.
>This is a temporary thing. What exactly is their objection other than a
>hatred of things commercial?
You tell us. What is their objection to Central Park? The world is a
big place. Even if we assume that you're talking about the famous
Central Park (rather than the bizarrely named one on the eastern
boundary of Vancouver), most of us haven't heard of any conflict
between a California ecofreak group and that park.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Boron Elgar
wrote:
The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
Harrier hawk.
The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
done prior to the art installation.
http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
Boron
kay w
Boron:
>The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
>Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
>in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
>Harrier hawk.
>
>The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
>done prior to the art installation.
>
>http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
horrified.
--
"If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner."
Tallulah Bankhead
James Gifford
> In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
> Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
> several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
> intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
> visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
> horrified.
Do you suppose he used to run Earl Scheib?
--
|=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
|=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|
Boron Elgar
>Previously:
>
>Boron:
>>The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
>>Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
>>in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
>>Harrier hawk.
>>
>>The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
>>done prior to the art installation.
>>
>>http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
>
>
>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
>several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
>intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
>visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
>horrified.
That is not going to stop me from sending you pictures from when I go
see it next weekend (assuming I can even get near the place).
Bwahahahahahaha!
Boron
lance...@aol.com
park every day, imo the "installation" is awful.
1). a fleet of 3 dozen or os forklift trucks & dozens and dozens of
rental trucks have been in the park for 7+ weeks on roads, etc...in
prep for this....along w/workng through the night ultrabright lighting,
etc....its' basically looked and sound like a construction sight at the
102nd street transverse for about 2 months.
2). I've never seen so much steel in Cental Park. Look, for millions
of us in Manhattan, Central Park is our Yellowstone or Yosemite. Yes
it's man made but it's the only thing millions of us have in the way
for grass for crissakes....the only grass or serene place we see. This
is an invasion of an ego out of control imposing its vision of art on
our Yellowstone.
3). Some of the world's greatest museums in the world are on the street
adjacent to the park...is that not enough? Must the park too become
constructed art?
4). What's it look like? Seriously...crap. It literally looks like
orange clothes hanging from a clothes line. Lots of clothes lines.
It honestly looked better imo without the fabric and just the steel
beams. It's a mess. I call it "upscale graffiti" for the high brow.
5). If we want to see steal beams....we have a whole subway system full
of them. Could Christo have not placed more down there?
Mark Steese
@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com:
> My instinct is to tell the Sierra Club to stick it where the sun don't
> shine.
>
> This is a temporary thing.
"So, you fellows will only be using my property for three days? I guess
that's all right then. Can't do that much damage in three days."
"You won't regret this, Mr. Yasgur!"
--
Mark Steese
Unscramble and underscore to email
----------------------------------
In our age, there is no such thing as "keeping out of politics." All
issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies,
evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. -George Orwell
Les Albert
>Previously:
>
>Boron:
>>The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
>>Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
>>in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
>>Harrier hawk.
>>
>>The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
>>done prior to the art installation.
>>
>>http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
>several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
>intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
>visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
>horrified.
I have to agree with some of your disagreement. I also think Christo
is into himself, and unfortunately a lot of the public in any city
where he does his installations think that it is worthy of praise
because it is BIG. To me his installations are just another piece of
performance stuff that masquerades as art.
Les
(And I think Jackson Pollock was full of shit also)
Boron Elgar
<makes...@charter.net> wrote:
>Lord Jubjub <jub...@ev1.net> wrote in news:jubjub-6C34BA.23003811022005
>@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com:
>
>> My instinct is to tell the Sierra Club to stick it where the sun don't
>> shine.
>>
>> This is a temporary thing.
>
>"So, you fellows will only be using my property for three days? I guess
>that's all right then. Can't do that much damage in three days."
>
>"You won't regret this, Mr. Yasgur!"
Since when is Central Park owned by the Sierra Club? Are people going
to be living in the park for a few days to view this?
A lot of events are held in Central Park. Simon & Garfunkle drew half
a million, Garth Brooks 750K and The NY Philharmonic even more than
that.
It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
Boron
Boron Elgar
wrote:
Those were paint spots, Les, not shit.
Boron
Mark Steese
news:u07t01l9i850cc7gk...@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:19:14 GMT, Mark Steese
> <makes...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>Lord Jubjub <jub...@ev1.net> wrote in news:jubjub-6C34BA.23003811022005
>>@news-fe-01.texas.rr.com:
>>
>>> My instinct is to tell the Sierra Club to stick it where the sun
>>> don't shine.
>>>
>>> This is a temporary thing.
>>
>>"So, you fellows will only be using my property for three days? I
>> guess that's all right then. Can't do that much damage in three
>> days."
>>
>>"You won't regret this, Mr. Yasgur!"
>
> Since when is Central Park owned by the Sierra Club? Are people going
> to be living in the park for a few days to view this?
Just using humor to point out the fallacy in Lord Jubjub's evident belief
that "a temporary thing" is necessarily a harmless thing. You might want to
cut back on the lemons, dear.
D.F. Manno
Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
> Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
> in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
> Harrier hawk.
>
> The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
> done prior to the art installation.
>
> http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
Sounds like a legitimate objection to me.
--
D.F. Manno
dfm2a...@spymac.com
"The country we carry in our hearts is waiting."
D.F. Manno
Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
> this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
> there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
And if it damages the wildlife while it's up, what's the big deal, right?
Boron Elgar
<dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>In article <olcs011mf0oai7l4p...@4ax.com>,
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
>> Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
>> in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
>> Harrier hawk.
>>
>> The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
>> done prior to the art installation.
>>
>> http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
>
>Sounds like a legitimate objection to me.
There was not enough on the Sierra Club webpage for me to come to that
conclusion. I must say that I am rather curious as to exactly how such
an environmental impact study would be designed and funded.
The peregrines (there are 16 known pairs in the city) nest atop
bridges, steeples & high rises. They do not nest in the park, nor are
they limited to Manhattan. The marsh hawks are usually only seen in
flyovers & that grebe has not been sighted in the park during the last
2 Februaries that I can find counts for. They do show up in counts
from January, though.
The Audubon Society has not made any noise about the project, from
what I can find.
By the way, Christo & Jeanne-Claude have given New York "an
exclusive, world-wide, royalty-free license empowering a
not-for-profit foundation to use the artist's intellectual property
rights from The Gates to create public awareness of the importance of
nurturing the nature of New York for the health and well being of the
city's inhabitants."
http://www.nnyn.org/home.html
Boron
Boron Elgar
<dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>In article <u07t01l9i850cc7gk...@4ax.com>,
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
>> this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
>> there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
>
>And if it damages the wildlife while it's up, what's the big deal, right?
That's a snotty and presumptuous accusation.
First of all, what evidence do you have that park wildlife will be
harmed by this project? Secondly, what evidence do you have of my
feelings about the wildlife in the park, which I have been
photographing since 1972.
When the project was first proposed, on a much larger scale and with a
more physically intrusive design, it was turned down in 1981, by
Gordon Davis, the Parks Commissioner. Of course, the park was in dreck
shape in those days after a long decline due to neglect and worsened
by a severe lack of money from the city's financial woes in the 70s.
The project was scaled back and redesigned before it was accepted.
Boron
Randy Poe
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>A lot of events are held in Central Park. Simon & Garfunkle drew half
>a million, Garth Brooks 750K and The NY Philharmonic even more than
>that.
Hit a sore point there. Central Park was denied as a demonstration
place for protests during the Republican National Convention on the
grounds that a large gathering would damage the precious lawns.
Pointing out the above-mentioned concerts did nothing to budge the
City from this position.
- Randy
Bob Ward
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:30:52 -0500, "D.F. Manno"
><dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <u07t01l9i850cc7gk...@4ax.com>,
>> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
>>> this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
>>> there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
>>
>>And if it damages the wildlife while it's up, what's the big deal, right?
>
>
>That's a snotty and presumptuous accusation.
>
>First of all, what evidence do you have that park wildlife will be
>harmed by this project? Secondly, what evidence do you have of my
>feelings about the wildlife in the park, which I have been
>photographing since 1972.
>
Isn't that generally the purpose of an environmental impact report, to
determine beforehand whether or not the project will have an adverse
effect on the environment?
You have an interesting way of communicating your concern for the
wildlife - I don't recall your mentionong previously that you have
been photographing the wildlife of Central Park since 1972, so that's
not much of an indicator.
>
Boron Elgar
wrote:
True, and though I think the denial last August was made-up BS, there
have been other proposed gatherings that have been denied, too. The
concerts/play have always been special activities and treated as such,
with paved access ways from the outer areas/reaches leading to the
grassy areas where they have been held.
The last 2-3 years the city (the Parks Commission?) has denied those
gathering on the date of John Lennon's death to remain in the park
overnight as they used to. It has never been an event with any trouble
making, but the rule was made to prevent other, more troublesome
events from going overnight and no exceptions were granted at
Strawberry Fields.
One of the concerns about allowing The Gates to go up, was about
setting precedent for large scale projects in the park.
Boron
Guillermo el Gato
wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:12:57 -0600, kay w <scu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Previously:
>>
>>Boron:
>>>The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
>>>Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
>>>in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
>>>Harrier hawk.
>>>
>>>The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
>>>done prior to the art installation.
>>>
>>>http://newyork.sierraclub.org/nyc/spring_03_5.htm
>
>>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>>Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
>>several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
>>intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
>>visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
>>horrified.
>
>I have to agree with some of your disagreement. I also think Christo
>is into himself, and unfortunately a lot of the public in any city
>where he does his installations think that it is worthy of praise
>because it is BIG. To me his installations are just another piece of
>performance stuff that masquerades as art.
>
How is performance stuff not art?
>Les
>(And I think Jackson Pollock was full of shit also)
Oh, it's perfectly fair to say that it sucks, and that people who like
it or spend money on it are the same set of idiots that spend money on
Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line. However, that doesn't mean that
it's not "art." Bad art is still art, after all.
(And I agree with you on both the Christo and Pollack counts.)
Greg Goss
>3). Some of the world's greatest museums in the world are on the street
>adjacent to the park...is that not enough? Must the park too become
>constructed art?
So this becomes a matter for New Yorkers to arbitrate through
political processes. How do they/you determine what is a reasonable
usage for Central park? Political protest #1 is OK while political
protest #2 is off-base? Musician #1 can plunk a million butts on the
grass but Musician #2 cannot? Survivor finale is OK? Is the current
construction process considered OK because "who uses the park in the
wintertime anyhow?"
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>lance...@aol.com wrote:
Some of it is politics, as with the attempts as protest organization
last summer.
Your last statement is false, though, as the park is used year round
with the pathways and roads through it kept clear. There are major
east-west roads through the park that are still open to vehicular
traffic.
February was chosen so there would be no leaves on any of the trees.
That contract between the bare trees and the billows of fabric from
the gates are part of the project design.
Everything that goes on in the park requires approval. There are large
gatherings all the time. Sometimes permission is denied and there is
hue and cry. The Gates is unique in my memory.
It is understood that The Gates will draw crowds. In fact, hotel
occupancy in the area is up considerably over last year and it is
expected to be a tourist draw, as well as one for residents. According
to what Mayor Bloomberg says, the city is expected to have $80 million
dollars of economic gain from the project. I have no idea how one
estimates this or verifies it.
The park is quite large, though, over 800 acres and the art work will
extend over 23 miles of walkways and paths. Though I am sure there
will be some who take in the entire length, I do not think most
visitors will.
Coverage of the project, with video, is available from the NYT web
pages. Though one must register, it is free and you can register as
Bugs Bunny or George Bush if you want.
http://tinyurl.com/4uxrg
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/arts/13kimmelman.html?hp&ex=1108357200&en=d794ddf5edfba7b9&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Boron
Boron Elgar
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>February was chosen so there would be no leaves on any of the trees.
>That contract between the bare trees and the billows of fabric from
^^^^^^^
Let's make that "contrast," please
Greg Goss
>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:07:44 -0500, Greg Goss <gjg...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>>construction process considered OK because "who uses the park in the
>>wintertime anyhow?
>
>Your last statement is false, though, as the park is used year round
>with the pathways and roads through it kept clear. There are major
>east-west roads through the park that are still open to vehicular
>traffic.
I wasn't advocating that directly, but rather projecting hyperbole
into the mouth of a hypothetical political appointee. When I saw the
CNN story on this, I was wondering if a mid-winter art event in the
park was intended to increase usage of the park in an otherwise rather
idle season.
I don't consider the through streets to have much bearing on whether
the park is being "used", unless the current art project is
interfering with the traffic on those roads.
>It is understood that The Gates will draw crowds. In fact, hotel
>occupancy in the area is up considerably over last year and it is
>expected to be a tourist draw, as well as one for residents. According
>to what Mayor Bloomberg says, the city is expected to have $80 million
>dollars of economic gain from the project. I have no idea how one
>estimates this or verifies it.
[...]
>Coverage of the project, with video, is available from the NYT web
>pages. Though one must register, it is free and you can register as
>Bugs Bunny or George Bush if you want.
Thank you for the link. I have a userid on the NYT, though I changed
browsers since the last time I was there and will have to spend a few
hours waiting for the "who are you" conversation to complete before I
can get back in.
Les Albert
<dev...@example.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:22:37 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:12:57 -0600, kay w <scu...@aol.com> wrote:
Kay:
>>>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>>>Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
>>>several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
>>>intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were to
>>>visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
>>>horrified.
Me:
>>I have to agree with some of your disagreement. I also think Christo
>>is into himself, and unfortunately a lot of the public in any city
>>where he does his installations think that it is worthy of praise
>>because it is BIG. To me his installations are just another piece of
>>performance stuff that masquerades as art.
Him:
>How is performance stuff not art?
Me:
>>(And I think Jackson Pollock was full of shit also)
Him:
>Oh, it's perfectly fair to say that it sucks, and that people who like
>it or spend money on it are the same set of idiots that spend money on
>Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line. However, that doesn't mean that
>it's not "art." Bad art is still art, after all.
>(And I agree with you on both the Christo and Pollack counts.)
In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
You are right. Christo's stuff is art in the sense of the word where
skill is used to gratify taste, or produce something that is
beautiful.
But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
Les
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:07:44 -0500, Greg Goss <gjg...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>
>>>construction process considered OK because "who uses the park in the
>>>wintertime anyhow?
>>
>>Your last statement is false, though, as the park is used year round
>>with the pathways and roads through it kept clear. There are major
>>east-west roads through the park that are still open to vehicular
>>traffic.
>
>I wasn't advocating that directly, but rather projecting hyperbole
>into the mouth of a hypothetical political appointee. When I saw the
>CNN story on this, I was wondering if a mid-winter art event in the
>park was intended to increase usage of the park in an otherwise rather
>idle season.
There is no idle season. It is used year round. If any complaint were
to be raised, it would likely be that the exhibit deterred use of the
park, rather than encouraged it. (no one has said this, to my
knowledge)
>
>I don't consider the through streets to have much bearing on whether
>the park is being "used", unless the current art project is
>interfering with the traffic on those roads.
The through roads are, for the most part, cunningly placed so as not
to be seen by most of those in the park, unless they make a bit of
effort to do so. I had actually deleted some of what I had written
and up above, in doing so, failed to make my own point...there are
other roads in the park, too, "drives," that meander through the park
and used to be my favorite ways for taking a taxi in the area. These
roadways were closed to vehicles ages ago so that bikers, skaters and
pedestrians have more access.
The park is used in all seasons. It is great for cross-country skiing
after a snowstorm, too. It is a stunningly beautiful park, set up to
attract and beguile visitors of all ages at any time of year.
Boron
Guillermo el Gato
wrote:
What's with the perverse attributions?
>
>
>In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
My "jib?" I don't think you've ever seen my jib, cut or uncut.
>
>You are right. Christo's stuff is art in the sense of the word where
>skill is used to gratify taste, or produce something that is
>beautiful.
Art is where somebody (who fancies himself an artist) puts up a frame
(can be metaphorical) and says, "Inside this frame is 'art.'" The
rest is up to the viewer of the 'art' to decide its merits. Some
people are quite good at selling themselves and creation process as
part of the art--Pollack comes to mind. Some craft works that require
years or decades of refining a skill--the Dutch Masters spring to
mind.
>
>But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
>type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
>
It's an opinion, nothing more--nothing less. I like art with a little
more meat, and Christo's is completely vegetarian.
As far as the DWSHL goes, I think it's great that DW entered the
market and is providing a service for those who wish to take advantage
of that service. My opinion is that those who take advantage of that
service, who perceive a value return for their money, are idiots.
Les Albert
<dev...@example.com> wrote:
They make it easier to follow the "conversation", particularly when
you break the posting up as I have done now. Why do you call them
perverse?
>>In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
>My "jib?" I don't think you've ever seen my jib, cut or uncut.
It's an old expression that can be used to indicate that you agree
with someone. Have you never heard it before?
>>You are right. Christo's stuff is art in the sense of the word where
>>skill is used to gratify taste, or produce something that is
>>beautiful.
>Art is where somebody (who fancies himself an artist) puts up a frame
>(can be metaphorical) and says, "Inside this frame is 'art.'" The
>rest is up to the viewer of the 'art' to decide its merits. Some
>people are quite good at selling themselves and creation process as
>part of the art--Pollack comes to mind. Some craft works that require
>years or decades of refining a skill--the Dutch Masters spring to
>mind.
How do you feel about the work of Grandma Moses?
>>But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
>>type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
>It's an opinion, nothing more--nothing less. I like art with a little
>more meat, and Christo's is completely vegetarian.
>As far as the DWSHL goes, I think it's great that DW entered the
>market and is providing a service for those who wish to take advantage
>of that service. My opinion is that those who take advantage of that
>service, who perceive a value return for their money, are idiots.
I was trying to find out *why* you think such people are idiots, but
all you say is it's your opinion because those idiots perceive a value
for what they do.
Les
Charles Bishop
<lalb...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:36:51 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
><dev...@example.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:12:36 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
[snippola]
>
>>>But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
>>>type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
>
>
>>It's an opinion, nothing more--nothing less. I like art with a little
>>more meat, and Christo's is completely vegetarian.
>>As far as the DWSHL goes, I think it's great that DW entered the
>>market and is providing a service for those who wish to take advantage
>>of that service. My opinion is that those who take advantage of that
>>service, who perceive a value return for their money, are idiots.
>
>I was trying to find out *why* you think such people are idiots, but
>all you say is it's your opinion because those idiots perceive a value
>for what they do.
He said why-those "who perceive a value return for their money". Perhaps
in the same way as those who purchase lottery tickets, or those who stand
out in the middle of field waiting for space travellers are.
Of course it's an opinion, that's pretty much all we have here, unless
we're doing science. "Idiots" may be too much shorthand and offensive to
some, but I took it as "those who don't value their time and money enough
to use them wisely"
--
charles, I have to go, the spacecraft is here
Bob Ward
wrote:
>
>They make it easier to follow the "conversation", particularly when
>you break the posting up as I have done now. Why do you call them
>perverse?
Easier than what? Agent quotes perfectly fine. Why risk munging the
attributions by hand when the software can do it correctly for you?
Or is this something else that is considered normal where you live,
and nowhere else?
Les Albert
Les Albert
Bishop) wrote:
>In article <e76v015tm4i3n699c...@4ax.com>, Les Albert
><lalb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:36:51 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
>><dev...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:12:36 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>>>wrote:
>
>[snippola]
>
>>
>>>>But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
>>>>type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
>>>It's an opinion, nothing more--nothing less. I like art with a little
>>>more meat, and Christo's is completely vegetarian.
>>>As far as the DWSHL goes, I think it's great that DW entered the
>>>market and is providing a service for those who wish to take advantage
>>>of that service. My opinion is that those who take advantage of that
>>>service, who perceive a value return for their money, are idiots.
>>I was trying to find out *why* you think such people are idiots, but
>>all you say is it's your opinion because those idiots perceive a value
>>for what they do.
>He said why-those "who perceive a value return for their money".
It's painting everything with too broad a brush. A *lot* of things
that we *all* spend money on is because we perceive a value returned
for the money spent. And if someone doesn't agree with that
perception of value does that make the other person an idiot? It's
like asking someone, "Why?", and getting an answer, "Just because I
think so.".
>Perhaps
>in the same way as those who purchase lottery tickets, or those who stand
>out in the middle of field waiting for space travellers are.
>Of course it's an opinion, that's pretty much all we have here, unless
>we're doing science. "Idiots" may be too much shorthand and offensive to
>some,
Yes.
> but I took it as "those who don't value their time and money enough
>to use them wisely"
Maybe. But there are probably some outside of this newsgroup who
think that participation here is by people who don't value their time
and money enough to use them wisely.
Les
robg...@bestweb.net
> In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
> Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
> several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
> intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were
to
> visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
> horrified.
Yeah, I think his stuff's a piece of shit, and that this particular
piece does nothing but block the view of a nice park. I saw people
walking under the hanging sheets in Central Park on TV, and I thought
the only good would be if the sheets were longer so they got close to
the ground, and it was summer, and they wet them down and people RAN
thru them the way I used to like running under/thru the wet laundry
hanging from the clothesline in the back yard, hitting my face on it.
Robert
Guillermo el Gato
wrote:
Because of the effort it takes to do what a goo newsreader does for
you. I generally don't have problems following the quotes. Whatever
floats your boat, I reckon.
>
>>>In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
>
>>My "jib?" I don't think you've ever seen my jib, cut or uncut.
>
>It's an old expression that can be used to indicate that you agree
>with someone. Have you never heard it before?
I've heard "Does that jibe?" But I don't think I've heard the phrase
you're using.
>
>>>You are right. Christo's stuff is art in the sense of the word where
>>>skill is used to gratify taste, or produce something that is
>>>beautiful.
>
>
>>Art is where somebody (who fancies himself an artist) puts up a frame
>>(can be metaphorical) and says, "Inside this frame is 'art.'" The
>>rest is up to the viewer of the 'art' to decide its merits. Some
>>people are quite good at selling themselves and creation process as
>>part of the art--Pollack comes to mind. Some craft works that require
>>years or decades of refining a skill--the Dutch Masters spring to
>>mind.
>
>How do you feel about the work of Grandma Moses?
I never really paid much attention.
>
>
>>>But why are people idiots if they choose to spend money on Christo
>>>type stuff, or spend money on Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line?
>
>
>>It's an opinion, nothing more--nothing less. I like art with a little
>>more meat, and Christo's is completely vegetarian.
>>As far as the DWSHL goes, I think it's great that DW entered the
>>market and is providing a service for those who wish to take advantage
>>of that service. My opinion is that those who take advantage of that
>>service, who perceive a value return for their money, are idiots.
>
>I was trying to find out *why* you think such people are idiots, but
>all you say is it's your opinion because those idiots perceive a value
>for what they do.
Sorry, I'll try to be more clear. Because psychic hot lines are
bullshit and a waste of money. And people who perceive value in that
are fucking idiots and are better off without their money, because
they'd probably just end up hurting themselves or someone else.
That being said, I'm glad Dionne Warwick is there to provide the
service.
art...@yahoo.com
>Oh, it's perfectly fair to say that it sucks, and that people who like
>it or spend money on it are the same set of idiots that spend money on
>Dionne Warwick's Psychic Hot Line. However, that doesn't mean that
>it's not "art." Bad art is still art, after all.
But does it belong in the museum of bad art?
http://www.museumofbadart.org/
Greg Goss
Greg Goss
>>>>In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
>>
>>>My "jib?" I don't think you've ever seen my jib, cut or uncut.
>>
>>It's an old expression that can be used to indicate that you agree
>>with someone. Have you never heard it before?
>
>I've heard "Does that jibe?" But I don't think I've heard the phrase
>you're using.
It's a standard phrase that sailors have used in books I've been
reading for decades. Dunno if sailors REALLY say that. Or said that,
back in the days when there were dozens of sails on a ship, presumably
one of them a jib.
Les Albert
<dev...@example.com> wrote:
You have convinced me.
Les
Charles Bishop
<dev...@example.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:28:23 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>wrote:
[and in previous posts-attributions snipped]
>>>>In that case, I like the cut of your jib.
>>
>>>My "jib?" I don't think you've ever seen my jib, cut or uncut.
>>
>>It's an old expression that can be used to indicate that you agree
>>with someone. Have you never heard it before?
>
>I've heard "Does that jibe?" But I don't think I've heard the phrase
>you're using.
There's an additional layer to "cut of your jib" as well. It's a reference
to a person's character and behavior (the view being positive), and I
think, possibly a sartorial one as well.
It's a sailing reference, but why the jib is important and not the
mainsail or any of the other sheets, I know not.
--
charles, she had a figure that would have graced any ships figurehead
Jim Shaffer
>Yeah, I think his stuff's a piece of shit, and that this particular
>piece does nothing but block the view of a nice park.
From the pictures I've seen, the Gates are only along walkways, so it
doesn't appear to be blocking the view as badly as *most* of Cristo's
projects, but I still don't know how the hell anybody is supposed to
figure out what kind of statement he was trying to make. When I saw
that they were orange, I thought for a few minutes that maybe he was
trying to show solidarity with the Yushenko administration, but then I
saw one of his websites with pictures of older Gates installations and
they were all orange too, so unless the pro-European movement in
Ukraine has been using orange as a symbol longer than last year, I
guess that's not it. Or it probably isn't it anyway, since I've never
been able to see a meaning in anything Cristo did.
Bob Ward
http://www.fyi2000.com/NavyTerm.htm#cutjib
Cut of His Jib
In the days of sailing ships, nationality and rigs could often be
distinguished by ther jibs. A Spanish ship, for example, had a small
jib or none at all. Large French ships often had two jibs and English
ships normally had only one.
From ships, the phrase was extended to apply to men. The nose, like
the jib of a ship arriving in harbor, is the first part of the person
to arrive at a designated place. Figuratively, it implies the first
impression one makes on another person.
Jerry Bauer
(in article <37a0acF...@individual.net>):
I like the cut of your jib, arrrr!
D.F. Manno
Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:30:52 -0500, "D.F. Manno"
> <dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>
> > Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
> >> this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
> >> there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
> >
> >And if it damages the wildlife while it's up, what's the big deal, right?
>
> That's a snotty and presumptuous accusation.
Thank you. I try.
Look, you posted the above quote as part of your response to the Sierra
Club's complaint. Of course it won't have any effect once it's taken
down. The point is whether it will do any damage while it's up. Saying
that "there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there"
doesn't address that point at all.
--
D.F. Manno
dfm2a...@spymac.com
"The country we carry in our hearts is waiting."
Jordan Abel
Well, if true it does - damage is physical evidence. You're claiming
that it's *false* [or not known to be true], not that it's *irrelevant*
Bill Van
I have no strong feelings about this Christo piece either way, but it
strikes me that so-called performance art is usually about involving
people in a discussion or debate, not infrequently about the nature of
art and whether the particular piece qualifies.
This installation seems to be doing that job fairly well.
News-googling to get some detail, I came across a San Francisco
Chronicle piece whose author seems to like what he saw:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/13/CHRISTO.TMP
longish excerpt:
"So tell me again, what makes it art?" a woman asked a friend as they
strolled into the south end of the park Saturday morning.
That question is stirred up again and again, even among visitors to "The
Gates" who feel at home with contemporary art.
The answer matters less than the way the question subsides and reasserts
itself as one explores "The Gates." The peculiar energy of new art today
comes more from uncertainty than from a medium, a skill or good
aesthetic markings.
The walker within "The Gates" comes to passages where the installation's
elements seem merely like an ugly intrusion into the park's impeccably
seasoned landscape design. But round the right turn or look into the
distance, and the billowing fabric and orange bones of the piece
suddenly seem to hand off the racing energy of wind and light like relay
runners.
"The Gates" makes wind visible in the park as not even the trees in full
leaf do. Here the pleated orange hangings may fall still, while just
over there they stir gently or flap as noisily as a sail. The wind's
inconstancy is given new clothes.
The sound of the fabric and the way it subsides make vivid the way the
park cushions the noise of the surrounding city. As one passes under the
furling orange fabric, it can produce hints of reflected sunset light,
even under a gray overcast sky.
Gates cluster densely in certain areas of the park -- near the Daniel
Webster statue, for example, the staggered overlap of their fabric
hangings creates vast, rippling curtains of orange.
(end excerpt)
bill
Boron Elgar
<dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>In article <oakt01hmvjk1192v6...@4ax.com>,
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:30:52 -0500, "D.F. Manno"
>> <dfm2a...@spymac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
>> >> this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
>> >> there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
>> >
>> >And if it damages the wildlife while it's up, what's the big deal, right?
>>
>> That's a snotty and presumptuous accusation.
>
>Thank you. I try.
>
>Look, you posted the above quote as part of your response to the Sierra
>Club's complaint. Of course it won't have any effect once it's taken
>down. The point is whether it will do any damage while it's up. Saying
>that "there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there"
>doesn't address that point at all.
Sorry, bub...you are wrong. My posting was in reply to one of Mark
Steese's, which spoke of potential damages to the park and made a joke
about Yasgur, who owned the property that was used for the original
Woodstock festival. That property was heavily damaged by the use, and
I felt there was no comparison between the two events. The exchange of
that post went like this:
****************************************************************************
>> This is a temporary thing.
>
>"So, you fellows will only be using my property for three days? I guess
>that's all right then. Can't do that much damage in three days."
>
>"You won't regret this, Mr. Yasgur!"
Since when is Central Park owned by the Sierra Club? Are people going
to be living in the park for a few days to view this?
A lot of events are held in Central Park. Simon & Garfunkle drew half
a million, Garth Brooks 750K and The NY Philharmonic even more than
that.
It isn't as if Christo & Jeanne-Claude and their 600 employees sneaked
this thing in without anyone knowing about it. Once it is dismantled,
there will be no physical evidence left that it was ever there.
Boron
******************************************************************************
But I will go onto say that no one has shown any evidence of potential
harm to wildlife in the area and there has been no mounted protest of
environmental groups against the event, either. New Yorkers and their
organizations are not known for their quiet demeanor, either. New York
City isn't either.
I also specifically addressed the objections of the Sierra Club and
the birds they mentioned on their web pages, and was surprised that
they mentioned them specifically and also mentioned that Audubon did
not publicly share Sierra's objections.
Now go nip at someone else's ass for awhile with your false
accusations.
Boron
Jane Chaplin
"Les Albert" <lalb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c17t011u7165fpdfe...@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:12:57 -0600, kay w <scu...@aol.com> wrote:
|
|
| I have to agree with some of your disagreement. I also think Christo
| is into himself, and unfortunately a lot of the public in any city
| where he does his installations think that it is worthy of praise
| because it is BIG. To me his installations are just another piece of
| performance stuff that masquerades as art.
I've only seen one of Christo's small pieces in person, and I have to say, I
didn't "get" it. You can see it to at:
http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/artistwork.asp?searchText=christo&tab=1&recNo=0&woRecNo=0
( http://tinyurl.com/3k32y )
|
| Les
| (And I think Jackson Pollock was full of shit also)
|
Jackson Pollack was okay. His stuff was interesting to look at, compared to
this
http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/departmentWork.asp?level=2&deptgroup=5&recNo=34&display=
( http://tinyurl.com/58qf7 )
Yes, it looks like that in person. You have to get really close to realize
that it's a piece of graph paper and not a blank white canvas.
Both pieces are from the same museum that has an original cast of Rodin's
"Thinker" with his leg's blown off by the Weather Underground.
http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/work.asp?woid=9348
Why and what political statement they were trying to make, I have no clue.
Les Albert
<janec...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> .....
>Both pieces are from the same museum that has an original cast of Rodin's
>"Thinker" with his leg's blown off by the Weather Underground.
>http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/work.asp?woid=9348
>Why and what political statement they were trying to make, I have no clue.
There doesn't seem to be any reason stated for blowing up the statue.
They probably had a bomb ready to go, wanted to get rid of it, and
used it before they had any political target.
Les
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:32:01 GMT, "Jane Chaplin"
Was this before or after they blew themselves up on 10th St in
Greenwich Village in March of 1970?
Boron
Jane Chaplin
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:n7s11111f4ia89hv5...@4ax.com...
|
| Was this before or after they blew themselves up on 10th St in
| Greenwich Village in March of 1970?
|
| Boron
|
http://www.clevelandart.org/educef/rodin/html/1996461.html
groo
news:lg5Qd.7297$ng6...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
> I've only seen one of Christo's small pieces in person, and I have to
> say, I didn't "get" it. You can see it to at:
> http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/artistwork.asp?searchText=christo&t
> ab=1&recNo=0&woRecNo=0
> ( http://tinyurl.com/3k32y )
"The use of drapery and concealment adds a layer of mystery to the chair's
otherwise straightforward meaning."
I'd say he is a very good artist. A BS artist.
--
"I don't need a cite, because it's true." - Wildstar on afca
Boron Elgar
Now THAT is interesting. I have to check around for the exact date of
the 10th St misadventure now. (ahhh here it is...March 6th)
They seemed to have been building their bombs in the basement there.
Of course, it was around this time that they were most active with
their bombing. Amazing that no one got killed but themselves, though
the chat was that 10th St put a chill into their plans - probably some
crap in their pants too.
When I think of all the trouble I could have gotten into in those
days...
Boron
Guillermo el Gato
Anti-intellecutalism?
Guillermo el Gato
>"Jane Chaplin" <janec...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:lg5Qd.7297$ng6...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> I've only seen one of Christo's small pieces in person, and I have to
>> say, I didn't "get" it. You can see it to at:
>> http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/artistwork.asp?searchText=christo&t
>> ab=1&recNo=0&woRecNo=0
>> ( http://tinyurl.com/3k32y )
>
>"The use of drapery and concealment adds a layer of mystery to the chair's
>otherwise straightforward meaning."
>
>I'd say he is a very good artist. A BS artist.
No kidding. How do I get in on the scam? I create art at least once
a day.
groo
news:hvb311hotv0143gf9...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:02:26 GMT, groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
>
>>"Jane Chaplin" <janec...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>>news:lg5Qd.7297$ng6...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>>> I've only seen one of Christo's small pieces in person, and I have
>>> to say, I didn't "get" it. You can see it to at:
>>> http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/artistwork.asp?searchText=christo
>>> &t ab=1&recNo=0&woRecNo=0
>>> ( http://tinyurl.com/3k32y )
>>
>>"The use of drapery and concealment adds a layer of mystery to the
>>chair's otherwise straightforward meaning."
>>
>>I'd say he is a very good artist. A BS artist.
>
> No kidding. How do I get in on the scam? I create art at least once
> a day.
From what I've been able to ascertain, there are numerous things you'd
have to do. First, you must come up with a story of what your art means,
what led you to create it, and why it is vital to the world. This must be
as pretentious and incomprehensible as possible without clearly crossing
the line into schizophrenic nutjob territory. The closer you can get
without crossing the line, however, the better off you will be. You have
to be able to repeat this tale with variations over and over, each time
mustering a certain amount of entheusiasm and emotion.
Next, you also need to practice deprecating comments you can aim at other
"artists'" work, being snarky without being too overtly hostile (until
after you have become extremely successful). Unfortunately, to be really
effective at this, you need to study art history so that you can compare
and contrast their work to other artists' stuff.
Develop a tolerance for drinking bad wine from plastic cups. Dress funny,
using odd eyeglasses, hairstyles, hats, shoes, piercings, and lots of
black clothing. It would probably be helpful to be willing to have sex
with fairly odd and ugly people of either sex, particularly if they have
lots of money. A minor drug habit could be a plus.
Dr H
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Boron Elgar vociferated:
}The NY Chapter of the Sierra Club feel that The Gates project of
}Christo would interfere with the birds and wildlife in Central Park,
}in particular the Peregrine falcon, Pied-Billed Grebe & Northern
}Harrier hawk.
}
}The decry the fact that an environmental impact study has not been
}done prior to the art installation.
True art is beyond mere environmental concerns.
Dr H
Dr H
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Boron Elgar vociferated:
}On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:22:37 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
}wrote:
}
}>(And I think Jackson Pollock was full of shit also)
}
}Those were paint spots, Les, not shit.
True. Chris Ofili is the artist that paints with shit.
(One of them, anyway.)
Dr H
Dr H
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005, Les Albert vociferated:
}On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:05:09 GMT, ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles
}Bishop) wrote:
}
}
}> but I took it as "those who don't value their time and money enough
}>to use them wisely"
}
}Maybe. But there are probably some outside of this newsgroup who
}think that participation here is by people who don't value their time
}and money enough to use them wisely.
Damn.
Dr H
Dr H
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005, Jim Shaffer vociferated:
}On 13 Feb 2005 12:39:30 -0800, robg...@bestweb.net wrote:
}
}>Yeah, I think his stuff's a piece of shit, and that this particular
}>piece does nothing but block the view of a nice park.
}
}From the pictures I've seen, the Gates are only along walkways, so it
}doesn't appear to be blocking the view as badly as *most* of Cristo's
}projects, but I still don't know how the hell anybody is supposed to
}figure out what kind of statement he was trying to make.
I would venture that the "statement" which _most_ of Christo's art
makes is precisely to instigate discussions like this one.
Dr H
Boron Elgar
True art in the form of The Gates has not done anything to deter the
fast and furious mating of Pale Male & his inamorata, Lola,
immediately bordering the park.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/17/ny.hawks.reut/index.html
And as I said, at least one of the birds mentioned in the Sierra Club
article is only seen in fly overs at the park and so is hardly in any
danger from The Gates.
I am most definitely making sure that the NY chapter of the Sierra
Club gets no money from me this year. I have supported them nationally
in the past, but this time they are nutso.
Boron
"New Yorkers were all atwitter Thursday over the highly public
canoodling of one of their most high-flying celebrity couples -- Pale
Male and Lola.
The pair of red-tailed hawks have been spotted flagrantly mating all
around the neighborhood of the ritzy Fifth Avenue apartment building
where they were evicted, then restored to a brand new,
architect-designed love nest last December.
"It's hard to miss them now. They're seriously trying to propagate,"
bird-watcher Marie Winn told Reuters.
The mating was front-page news for the tabloid New York Post, but Winn
said that, hormones being what they are, the mating was never in
doubt.
The only question, she said, was whether the hawks would take to their
old nesting site, which was rebuilt in stainless steel and protected
by spikes.
"They didn't reject the nest site and they were faithful to it," Winn
reported.
A media frenzy erupted over the birds' eviction by wealthy residents
angry over the droppings and half-eaten pigeons littering the elegant
building's entrance."
Greg Goss
>True art in the form of The Gates has not done ....
You'd think that after a couple of weeks of controversy I would no
longer think of Bill and Melinda every time these get discussed...
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>True art in the form of The Gates has not done ....
>
>You'd think that after a couple of weeks of controversy I would no
>longer think of Bill and Melinda every time these get discussed...
But The Gates hasn't crashed once.
Boron
Bob Ward
So far, a better record than the umbrella fiasco.
kay w
Me(kay):
>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>Christo guy ...
I just got a cameraphone picture of Central Park from Boron, who's
there right this minute, (I never cease to be amazed at technology)
freezing her fingers off, and I have to admit, it is much prettier and
more festive than I'd have imagined.
What a gorgeous day! The sky is very blue, and the curtain things are
a lovely shade of orange (I'll let her describe it for you when she
gets home) and she says it really is fabulous.
--
"If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner."
Tallulah Bankhead
Boron Elgar
>Previously, and almost all snipped:
>
>
>Me(kay):
>>In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>>Christo guy ...
>
>
>I just got a cameraphone picture of Central Park from Boron, who's
>there right this minute, (I never cease to be amazed at technology)
>freezing her fingers off, and I have to admit, it is much prettier and
>more festive than I'd have imagined.
>
>What a gorgeous day! The sky is very blue, and the curtain things are
>a lovely shade of orange (I'll let her describe it for you when she
>gets home) and she says it really is fabulous.
Thanks, Kay.
I have posted 3 pictures to the Yahoo site, in a folder called "The
Gates."
The first picture shows how the direction of light can make the flags
look light orange, Creamsicle or saffron (just like Buddhist robes).
The park was packed and everyone seemed to be smiling. All ages were
out, and though the park is used all the time, of course, this was a
very chilly & breezy day, though clear and bright. There wasn't a
cloud in the sky when these shots were taken, between noon and 1:30.
The locals were there, as were lots of tourists, the cops were
chatting with people about the piece, there were docents in various
places that would answer questions and give info.
I wanted to see what late afternoon/sunset light would do to the flags
and so we drove up Central Park West, used the transverse at 86th and
came down 5th Avenue on the east side. All the colors were
transformed, looked dull orange and there was little or no variation
from one flag to the rest.. By then, there were some clouds and as the
sun set, the flag colors coordinated with the pastels and deeper hues
on the bottoms of the clouds.
Real nifty.
I have two short videos - quite brief, just done with the digital
camera, not a separate video camera. One is at the bright midday sun
from within the park and the other is at dusk shot through the car
window as we drove up CPW.. They can be viewed in Quick Time. If
anyone wants to see them, let me know and I will email. I did not want
to post either at Yahoo, as we are getting close to the 30 mg limit.
Boron
Paul L. Madarasz
among other things:
>kay w wrote:
>
>> In a rare fit of disagreement with Boron, I gotta say I *hate* this
>> Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
>> several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
>> intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. If I were
>to
>> visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all over it, I'd be
>> horrified.
>
>Yeah, I think his stuff's a piece of shit, and that this particular
>piece does nothing but block the view of a nice park. I saw people
>walking under the hanging sheets in Central Park on TV, and I thought
>the only good would be if the sheets were longer so they got close to
>the ground, and it was summer, and they wet them down and people RAN
>thru them the way I used to like running under/thru the wet laundry
>hanging from the clothesline in the back yard, hitting my face on it.
>
>Robert
Now there's something I haven't done in 50 years or so. Thanks for
the memory!
Paul L. Madarasz
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
That's the event that Paul Kantner wrote "Diana" for, right?
Tony Myers (now with flavor crystals!)
Christo guy and feel like his "art" (which my cat could (and did,
several times) duplicate with a roll of toilet paper) is the most
intrusive, insensitive, self-important bullshit in town. >>
Intrusive, yeah but that's sorta part of the point.
Insensitive to whom?
I agree about it being selfimportant.
>>If I were to visit a national landmark and find his rubbish all
over it, I'd be
horrified. >>
I'd bet he would be okay with your reaction.
I guess some people might even be horrified when chico trew the pie at
Margret Dumont (or however she spelled her name.
The purpose of some art is to piss off or confuse the grouchy old
people. Some people do it better than others, but I think it's a fine
use of art - to make the squares rethink what art is and what it could
and should be. It's better than another statue of another dead guy.
You're probably not his target fan base
Boron Elgar
<pa...@paulmadarasz.com> wrote:
>
>>Now THAT is interesting. I have to check around for the exact date of
>>the 10th St misadventure now. (ahhh here it is...March 6th)
>>
>>They seemed to have been building their bombs in the basement there.
>>Of course, it was around this time that they were most active with
>>their bombing. Amazing that no one got killed but themselves, though
>>the chat was that 10th St put a chill into their plans - probably some
>>crap in their pants too.
>>
>>When I think of all the trouble I could have gotten into in those
>>days...
>>
>>Boron
>
>That's the event that Paul Kantner wrote "Diana" for, right?
You have me there. I do not know.
Boron
Paul L. Madarasz
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:35:53 -0700, Paul L. Madarasz
Really? Ida thunk you, of all of us ex-hippies would remember:
"Sing a song for the Children who are gone/ Weatherwoman, Diana...
(Kantner always did have a tine ear)
Paul
>Boron
Boron Elgar
<pa...@paulmadarasz.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:26:18 -0500, Boron Elgar
><boron...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:
>
>>On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:35:53 -0700, Paul L. Madarasz
>><pa...@paulmadarasz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Now THAT is interesting. I have to check around for the exact date of
>>>>the 10th St misadventure now. (ahhh here it is...March 6th)
>>>>
>>>>They seemed to have been building their bombs in the basement there.
>>>>Of course, it was around this time that they were most active with
>>>>their bombing. Amazing that no one got killed but themselves, though
>>>>the chat was that 10th St put a chill into their plans - probably some
>>>>crap in their pants too.
>>>>
>>>>When I think of all the trouble I could have gotten into in those
>>>>days...
>>>>
>>>>Boron
>>>
>>>That's the event that Paul Kantner wrote "Diana" for, right?
>>
>>
>>You have me there. I do not know.
>>
>Really? Ida thunk you, of all of us ex-hippies would remember:
>
>"Sing a song for the Children who are gone/ Weatherwoman, Diana...
>
>(Kantner always did have a tine ear)
>
>Paul
>>Boron
I was not much of an Airplane fan. I never owned an album.
Boron
Dr H
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Boron Elgar vociferated:
}
}
}I was not much of an Airplane fan. I never owned an album.
}
They're available on CD, now. :-)
Dr H
Sparrow 13
wrote...
> I was not much of an Airplane fan. I never owned an album.
It wasn't on an Airplane record per se, it was Paul and Grace and a bunch of
other lysergically inclined musicians on an album called *Sunfighter*. I
remember when I first heard the opening track, "Silver Spoon", played by a mad
DJ on the one tadio station within my range that played underground or
otherwise esoteric rock. The record had to be six or seven years old even then
--but I was a lonely 16-year old aesthetic rebel, with a hunger for weird
fierce beauty, and I was *transfixed* by the Divine Grace's angelic contralto
warbling a song of cannibalism in a world without order. So a few years later
I got my hands on the record -- and to my disgust (I was all about *real*
raw-meat music by then, Iggy and the Pistols and Patti and the Godz) it was
what I thought of as patchouli-reeking pile of fad-radical hippie trip tripe.
Except for that one song.
"Throw do-oowwn aahh your ssssilver.....*sssspoon!*
Sparrow 13
The Extremely DeLux One