umscribe Joseph P. Kennedy II's BFF, Hugo Chavez

[danny burstein]

Reuters
FLASH: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dead, VP Maduro says.

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Howard Hale]

danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote

I assume there was a reason he was voted the dumbest member of the US House
(JK II, not Chavez, that is).

[Xho Jingleheimerschmidt]

On 03/05/2013 01:59 PM, danny burstein wrote:
> Reuters
> FLASH: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dead, VP Maduro says.

Sure, but who would believe him?

Xho

[Peter Boulding]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:59:35 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
<howar...@notmail.com> wrote in
<XnsA17AC136F2CBho...@94.75.214.39>:

>danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote
>
>I assume there was a reason he was voted the dumbest member of the US House
>(JK II, not Chavez, that is).

I know Merkins tend to react badly to any country that starts spending as
serious portion of its oil revenues on the poor, but the ill-informed
vitriol poured over Chavez in the US has been a wonder to behold.

Maybe now we won't be seeing quite so many references to Venezuela's
"communist dictator", or disgusted assertions that he made himself
"president for life" (well, he did, but only by winning an election and then
dying in office); nor, perhaps, will the CIA Factbook gloat quite so openly
about Venezuela's rising public-debt-to-GDP ratio--without mentioning that
it's still less than half that of the US.

I'm not voicing support for many of Chavez's often weird and wonderful
economic policies but he did manage, during his 12 years in office, to
reduce the numbers living in poverty from 50% of the population to 27%. I
doubt whether any of the other countries lucky enough to be sitting on a
fair amount of oil has come anywhere remotely close to such an achievement.

--
Regards, Peter Boulding
pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Images and Music: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music

[Howard Hale]

Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:59:35 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
>

>>I assume there was a reason he was voted the dumbest member of the US
>>House (JK II, not Chavez, that is).
>
> I know Merkins tend to react badly to any country that starts spending
> as serious portion of its oil revenues on the poor, but the
> ill-informed vitriol poured over Chavez in the US has been a wonder to
> behold.

I think he fed off of the hatred thrown his way, especially during the
previous Administration, and it was stupid for the Neoconnies to raise
him up to such a level. I think he always would have been a crank, but
the failed Bush-nudged coup in 2002 turned him much sourer than he
probably would have been. I think he did give aid and comfort to some
creeps in places like Iran, but I don't think he ever reached their
level of menace.

This is a decent piece on him:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/03/postscript-hugo-
chavez-1954-2013.html

Venezuela is a mess, Caracas is a deadly place, and he bears a lot of
responsibility for it -- I think he had a great opportunity with the
country's oil wealth, and blew it. Of course, he's far from the only
leader of a resource-rich country to blow his chance, and quite a few
have done far worse. I think he had some genuine interest in helping
the poor in his country, unlike someone like Qaddafi, but I also think
he had a pretty weak idea of what he was doing and got sucked into
returning all of the hatred that was thrown his way -- just because the
Boltons and Wolfowitzes were crazy didn't make his response rational.

[Boron Elgar]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:30:45 +0000, Peter Boulding
<pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:59:35 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
><howar...@notmail.com> wrote in
><XnsA17AC136F2CBho...@94.75.214.39>:
>
>>danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote
>>
>>I assume there was a reason he was voted the dumbest member of the US House
>>(JK II, not Chavez, that is).
>
>I know Merkins tend to react badly to any country that starts spending as
>serious portion of its oil revenues on the poor, but the ill-informed
>vitriol poured over Chavez in the US has been a wonder to behold.
>
>Maybe now we won't be seeing quite so many references to Venezuela's
>"communist dictator", or disgusted assertions that he made himself
>"president for life" (well, he did, but only by winning an election and then
>dying in office); nor, perhaps, will the CIA Factbook gloat quite so openly
>about Venezuela's rising public-debt-to-GDP ratio--without mentioning that
>it's still less than half that of the US.
>
>I'm not voicing support for many of Chavez's often weird and wonderful
>economic policies but he did manage, during his 12 years in office, to
>reduce the numbers living in poverty from 50% of the population to 27%. I
>doubt whether any of the other countries lucky enough to be sitting on a
>fair amount of oil has come anywhere remotely close to such an achievement.

It think he started out well, but deteriorated to the point of
deserving the harsh criticisms.

Here is an article from a generally left-progressive website:

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/03/05/1678661/why-democrats-shouldnt-eulogize-hugo-chavez/

In part:

While even Chavez’s critics admit that he did attempt to address the
plight of Venezuela’s poorest, the decline in economic inequality in
Venezuela reflected a broader egalitarian trend in Latin America, and
can’t be fully credited to Chavez’s policies. However, Chavez’
policies harmed Venezuela’s poorest in other ways: the value of the
Venezuelan currency dropped while prices soared, making it harder for
people to buy basic necessities, and crime skyrocketed.

Moreover, Chavez hurt the vulnerable in Venezuela in other ways.
Chavez’s state-run media hounded Venezuela’s small, beleaguered Jewish
population — he himself once said “Don’t let yourselves be poisoned by
those wandering Jews.” A study released by the Kantor Center at Tel
Aviv University found that Chavez’s rule “witnessed a rise in
antisemitic manifestations, including vandalism, media attacks,
caricatures, and physical attacks on Venezuelan Jewish institutions.”
Indeed, roughly half of Venezuelan Jews fled the country because of
“the social and economic chaos that the president has unleashed and
from the uncomfortable feeling that they were being specifically
targeted by the regime.”

Chavez also attacked Venezuela’s democratic political system. Human
Rights Watch reported in 2012 that “the accumulation of power in the
executive and the erosion of human rights protections have allowed the
Chávez government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute critics and
perceived opponents in a wide range of cases involving the judiciary,
the media, and civil society.” Contra Serrano, Venezuela’s elections
were not certified as “free and fair” by international monitors of
late: Chavez had not allowed international election monitors to
observe Venezuelan elections since 2006.

[Peter Boulding]

On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:14:38 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
<howar...@notmail.com> wrote in
<XnsA17AD81D02C3Eho...@94.75.214.39>:

>Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in
>
>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:59:35 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
>>
>>>I assume there was a reason he was voted the dumbest member of the US
>>>House (JK II, not Chavez, that is).
>>
>> I know Merkins tend to react badly to any country that starts spending
>> as serious portion of its oil revenues on the poor, but the
>> ill-informed vitriol poured over Chavez in the US has been a wonder to
>> behold.
>
>I think he fed off of the hatred thrown his way, especially during the
>previous Administration, and it was stupid for the Neoconnies to raise
>him up to such a level. I think he always would have been a crank, but
>the failed Bush-nudged coup in 2002 turned him much sourer than he
>probably would have been. I think he did give aid and comfort to some
>creeps in places like Iran, but I don't think he ever reached their
>level of menace.

Agreed. Not that I would place Iran that high in the table of countries that
threaten US security. But then the US is never honest on that subject;
preferring to reserve its public ire for leaders who publicly diss the US
(and/or, for reasons I'll never understand, Israel).

>This is a decent piece on him:
>
>http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/03/postscript-hugo-
>chavez-1954-2013.html

Much more to be said, but good piece.

>Venezuela is a mess, Caracas is a deadly place, and he bears a lot of
>responsibility for it -- I think he had a great opportunity with the
>country's oil wealth, and blew it. Of course, he's far from the only
>leader of a resource-rich country to blow his chance, and quite a few
>have done far worse. I think he had some genuine interest in helping
>the poor in his country, unlike someone like Qaddafi, but I also think
>he had a pretty weak idea of what he was doing and got sucked into
>returning all of the hatred that was thrown his way -- just because the
>Boltons and Wolfowitzes were crazy didn't make his response rational.

Wouldn't entirely disagree, but my point stands. The widely-believed
"communist dictator" and "made himself president for life" stuff was batshit
insane.

[Peter Boulding]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:01:51 -0500, Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com>
wrote in <2bfej8d6jjkjj4fta...@4ax.com>:

Agreed as regards elections and election monitoring--always a very bad
sign--although it should be mentioned that some US states refuse to permit
any election monitoring and if the US government were to invite Jimmy
Carter's election monitoring organisation, it would decline because the US
fails to meet basic requirements without which, it says, free and fair
elections are impossible.

I hadn't heard of Chavez's attacks on Jews--another bad sign.

[Boron Elgar]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:24:09 +0000, Peter Boulding

>>Ch�vez government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute critics and

>>perceived opponents in a wide range of cases involving the judiciary,
>>the media, and civil society.� Contra Serrano, Venezuela�s elections
>>were not certified as �free and fair� by international monitors of
>>late: Chavez had not allowed international election monitors to
>>observe Venezuelan elections since 2006.
>
>Agreed as regards elections and election monitoring--always a very bad
>sign--although it should be mentioned that some US states refuse to permit
>any election monitoring and if the US government were to invite Jimmy
>Carter's election monitoring organisation, it would decline because the US
>fails to meet basic requirements without which, it says, free and fair
>elections are impossible.

States right issues suck as far as I am concerned, but they can only
go so far with the Feds overlooking some of the election shenanigans -
that is, if Scalia has a heart attack soon.

>
>I hadn't heard of Chavez's attacks on Jews--another bad sign.

That happens so often from so many sources that the absence of it is
the big news these days.

The Beeb World News had two men on this morning who voiced some
criticisms as well as praise of Chavez. I came in at the tail end, so
cannot offer too much of what they said, but the American seemed to
have had an open journalistic relationship with Chavez over the years,
and liked him, but said Caracas is just trashed nowadays.

I don't know why these revolutionaries come into power, then decide
that they must hold power absolutely, then violently and criminally
suppress the opposition.

I think of Castro, who certainly made sure that the lowest of the low
had access to some education and medical care, but the cost to other
parts of society have been severe and he could never manage a
successful economy out of it all.

Boron

[bill van]

In article <kuoej810jsda5u1k4...@4ax.com>,

Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

> Agreed. Not that I would place Iran that high in the table of countries that
> threaten US security. But then the US is never honest on that subject;
> preferring to reserve its public ire for leaders who publicly diss the US
> (and/or, for reasons I'll never understand, Israel).
>

Public criticism of Israel is the traditional U.S. approach to trying to
get Israel to moderate some of its more extreme policies towards the
Palestinians and neighbouring countries, without actually reducing aid
or otherwise hampering Israel's role as its chief ally and enforcer in
that part of the world. I think the last few U.S. administrations,
including Obama's, haven't done nearly enough such dissing.

bill

[Peter Boulding]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:41:57 -0500, Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com>
wrote in <veuej8l0krnvg820u...@4ax.com>:

>I think of Castro, who certainly made sure that the lowest of the low
>had access to some education and medical care, but the cost to other
>parts of society have been severe and he could never manage a
>successful economy out of it all.

Given the severity and longevity of US sanctions, it's hard to know how
successful Castro's economy might otherwise have been. Indeed I suspect that
some of the US's ire against Chavez has to do with Venezuela supplying oil
in exchange for medical expertise.

[Boron Elgar]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:48:26 -0800, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

Public criticism of Israel is often justified no matter who offers it
up, but there is no question in my mind that Israel comes under verbal
attack and actual protest more often than any other country, many of
which practice egregious suppression and actions, yet are basically
given a free pass by the press and other bodies.

Boron

[S. Checker]

Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:

> Public criticism of Israel is often justified no matter who offers it
> up, but there is no question in my mind that Israel comes under verbal
> attack and actual protest more often than any other country, many of
> which practice egregious suppression and actions, yet are basically
> given a free pass by the press and other bodies.

Nobody expects Myanmar or Saudi Arabia not to be terrible governments,
I think the phrase "Because We Are Jerks" is on their state seal. I
think most people expect Israel to act like a Western democracy, like
Sweden or Belgium but with less pork products. Of course they are on a
war footing and have been since their inception which makes many of
those expectations unrealistic.
--
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it
has to be us.
-- Jerry Garcia

[Boron Elgar]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:11:24 -0500, spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker)
wrote:

>Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Public criticism of Israel is often justified no matter who offers it
>> up, but there is no question in my mind that Israel comes under verbal
>> attack and actual protest more often than any other country, many of
>> which practice egregious suppression and actions, yet are basically
>> given a free pass by the press and other bodies.
>
>Nobody expects Myanmar or Saudi Arabia not to be terrible governments,
>I think the phrase "Because We Are Jerks" is on their state seal. I
>think most people expect Israel to act like a Western democracy, like
>Sweden or Belgium but with less pork products. Of course they are on a
>war footing and have been since their inception which makes many of
>those expectations unrealistic.

Interesting take on it all and one that had not occurred to me. If you
have a moment, though, take a look at something I posted today about a
BBC report.

Boron

[D.F. Manno]

In article <XnsA17AD81D02C3Eho...@94.75.214.39>,

Howard Hale <howar...@notmail.com> wrote:

> Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in
>

> > I know Merkins tend to react badly to any country that starts spending
> > as serious portion of its oil revenues on the poor, but the
> > ill-informed vitriol poured over Chavez in the US has been a wonder to
> > behold.
>
> I think he fed off of the hatred thrown his way, especially during the
> previous Administration, and it was stupid for the Neoconnies to raise
> him up to such a level. I think he always would have been a crank, but
> the failed Bush-nudged coup in 2002 turned him much sourer than he
> probably would have been. I think he did give aid and comfort to some
> creeps in places like Iran, but I don't think he ever reached their
> level of menace.
>
> This is a decent piece on him:
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/03/postscript-hugo-
> chavez-1954-2013.html
>
> Venezuela is a mess, Caracas is a deadly place, and he bears a lot of
> responsibility for it -- I think he had a great opportunity with the
> country's oil wealth, and blew it. Of course, he's far from the only
> leader of a resource-rich country to blow his chance, and quite a few
> have done far worse. I think he had some genuine interest in helping
> the poor in his country, unlike someone like Qaddafi, but I also think
> he had a pretty weak idea of what he was doing and got sucked into
> returning all of the hatred that was thrown his way -- just because the
> Boltons and Wolfowitzes were crazy didn't make his response rational.

You can't trust any U.S. media outlet on Chavez - they're hopelessly
biased if they don't have their heads up their collective ass. Example -
the AP:

> Chavez invested Venezuela's oil wealth into social programs including
> state-run food markets, cash benefits for poor families, free health clinics
> and education programs. But those gains were meager compared with the
> spectacular construction projects that oil riches spurred in glittering
> Middle Eastern cities, including the world's tallest building in Dubai and
> plans for branches of the Louvre and Guggenheim museums in Abu Dhabi.

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=173521347>

Health care and education for its citizens - baaad. Skyscrapers and
glitzy museums for the elite - good!

--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!

[S. Checker]

Boron Elgar <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting take on it all and one that had not occurred to me. If you
> have a moment, though, take a look at something I posted today about a
> BBC report.

Since I didn't have access to the report this morning I didn't comment
on it. I'll try and look at it later.
--
Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig
how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and
hopeful for a change?
-- Oddball

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Mar 5, 8:30 pm, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
wrote:

> Maybe now we won't be seeing quite so many references to Venezuela's
> "communist dictator", or disgusted assertions that he made himself
> "president for life" (well, he did, but only by winning an election and then
> dying in office);

The problem with being president for life is that you never get to
enjoy retirement.

[Peter Boulding]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:01:07 -0800 (PST), "art...@yahoo.com"
<art...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<67807f3d-0f36-46cf...@7g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>:

>The problem with being president for life is that you never get to
>enjoy retirement.

Tell that to Herr Ratzinger.

[Howard Hale]

Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:01:07 -0800 (PST), "art...@yahoo.com"
>

>>The problem with being president for life is that you never get to
>>enjoy retirement.
>
> Tell that to Herr Ratzinger.

I am surprised that it's so rare for one of these guys to decide he
doesn't need to listen to one more performance by a regional children's
choir singing about the great virtues of his grandfather, followed up by
eating some disgusting greasy local delicacy prepared in some smelly
farmer's collective, and decide to run off with a sock full of diamonds
to Monte Carlo or somewhere else nice, and leave that greasy freezing
godforesaken backwater forever, and while he was at it leave behind the
shrill wife he was forced to marry when he was 19 in order to cement some
alliance his dad cooked up, and his idiot cousins who are always calling
him up to complain that the other cousin is getting more kickbacks on the
MiG contract, and the cheesy half brother who is always angling to stage
a coup, when he could be swimming in a nice non-polluted heated pool in
some place like that one at the boarding school he went to until he was
16, and own a good quality European soccer team instead of endlessly
watching that bunch of losers on his own national team that can't even
beat Ghana, and go to clubs like he did back when his Dad was alive and
running things, nice clubs, the ones where the women all looked like the
models in Vogue, at least the copies of Vogue he saw before his Dad
banned it from the country for glorifying the American consumer culture.

Sure, he'd probably end up with a shower of bullets flying in his
direction in five or ten years as somebody back home decided to try to
clean up loose ends, but then it's so easy to end up that way back home
anyway, and in that case it was more likely to be after he was forced to
live in some waterlogged prison cell crawling with centipedes and filled
with bats while the latest coup leader decided to hold yet another show
trial and force him on the stand to confess his crimes against some
imbecile relative he'd never even met, after they had exhausted all of
the crimes he'd actually committed, and then back to the cell where he'd
be chained to some confederate who'd gone crazy and wouldn't stop coming
up with yet another impossible escape plan, or some theory how secret
allies would come to their rescue, when he knew damn well those allies
were either the ones who were loading their guns right now, or else
chained up in the cell next door. No, if the bullet is coming, why not
wait for in a place where the coffee is good and liquor is better and
there's central heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer and
nothing to do but spend more and more money, since there are always more
bank accounts to be tapped.

Maybe Ratzy will inspire some of these guys to rethink their options.

[Peter Boulding]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 22:20:35 +0000 (UTC), Howard Hale
<howart...@notmail.com> wrote in
<XnsA17CB07692...@94.75.214.39>:

<shakes head in silent admiration>

Did you notice, people, how Howard only took two quick breaths during that
entire diatribe?

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Mar 7, 5:26 pm, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
wrote:

.
>
> <shakes head in silent admiration>
>
> Did you notice, people, how Howard only took two quick breaths during that
> entire diatribe?

Give him a bottle of Watney's Red Barrel.

[Howard Hale]

"art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Mar 7, 5:26�pm, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
>>

>> <shakes head in silent admiration>
>>
>> Did you notice, people, how Howard only took two quick breaths during
>> that entire diatribe?
>
> Give him a bottle of Watney's Red Barrel.

Be careful, I'm just getting warmed up.

[Lesmond]

My choice of comment vacillated between "Have you taken your meds?" and "Have
another drink".

Yes, I noticed.

--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.

[()]

On 6 Mar, 20:28, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:41:57 -0500, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hootmail.com>
> wrote in <veuej8l0krnvg820um6frlbup09cvlo...@4ax.com>:

>
> >I think of Castro, who certainly made sure that the lowest of the low
> >had access to some education and medical care, but the cost to other
> >parts of society have been severe and he could never manage a
> >successful economy out of it all.
>
> Given the severity and longevity of US sanctions, it's hard to know how
> successful Castro's economy might otherwise have been. Indeed I suspect that
> some of the US's ire against Chavez has to do with Venezuela supplying oil
> in exchange for medical expertise.
>

For all the animosity, the US has been the largest buyer of Venezuelan
oil.

[()]

On 7 Mar, 19:58, "D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:
> In article <XnsA17AD81D02C3Ehowardtoldhogmail...@94.75.214.39>,
>  Howard Hale <howardt...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in

The absence of basic foodstuffs such as flour, sugar, eggs or oil, on
the supermarket shelves is a problem in Venezuela, because more than
10% of the budget is spent on subsidizing petrol (gasoline), while it
imports about a quarter of the petrol from the US at world market
prices. This leaves no hard currency to import food.

Most reasonably run countries are able to provide food for their
citizens without much state intervention.

>>cash benefits for poor families, free health clinics
> > and education programs. But those gains were meager compared with the
> > spectacular construction projects that oil riches spurred in glittering
> > Middle Eastern cities, including the world's tallest building in Dubai and
> > plans for branches of the Louvre and Guggenheim museums in Abu Dhabi.
>
> <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=173521347>
>
> Health care and education for its citizens - baaad. Skyscrapers and
> glitzy museums for the elite - good!
>
> --

> D.F. Manno | dfma...@mail.com
> GOP delenda est!

[danny burstein]

In <4609d2a5-4af0-43c9...@a14g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> "()" <karo...@yahoo.com> writes:

>> Given the severity and longevity of US sanctions, it's hard to know how
>> successful Castro's economy might otherwise have been. Indeed I suspect that
>> some of the US's ire against Chavez has to do with Venezuela supplying oil
>> in exchange for medical expertise.
>>

>For all the animosity, the US has been the largest buyer of Venezuelan
>oil.

There you go again confusing the issue by inserting facts
into the discussion.


--

[Howard Hale]

danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:

> "()" <karo...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> Given the severity and longevity of US sanctions, it's hard to know
>>> how successful Castro's economy might otherwise have been. Indeed I
>>> suspect that some of the US's ire against Chavez has to do with
>>> Venezuela supplying oil in exchange for medical expertise.
>
>>For all the animosity, the US has been the largest buyer of Venezuelan
>>oil.
>
> There you go again confusing the issue by inserting facts
> into the discussion.

Since oil is such a global commodity, the US thirst for oil has always
helped out countries that we feud with like Iran and Iraq and Russia.

US policy toward Cuba is such a bizarre thing, but I think younger Cuban-
Americans are less interested in keeping up the feud, and I have a feeling
it's going to be over in a decade or so, even if they stay commie. Romney
beat Obama among Cuban American voters by only 4 percent this time:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/08/3087889/poll-obama-got-big-share-of-
cuban.html

It will be interesting to see where guys like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio go
if Cuban Americans get less invested in continued isolation of Cuba, and
whether the old anti-commie hands like Eliot Abrams can keep the Republican
Party so hard core anti-Cuba if that position puts the GOP at a
disadvantage in Florida. The Castros won't be around much longer, and I
think without them in place it gets harder to argue for such extreme
policies, even if the successor government keeps a lot of the antique and
harmful Cold War policies in place.

[D.F. Manno]

"()" <karo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 7 Mar, 19:58, "D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You can't trust any U.S. media outlet on Chavez - they're hopelessly
>> biased if they don't have their heads up their collective ass. Example -
>> the AP:
>>
>>> Chavez invested Venezuela's oil wealth into social programs including
>>> state-run food markets,
>
> The absence of basic foodstuffs such as flour, sugar, eggs or oil, on
> the supermarket shelves is a problem in Venezuela, because more than
> 10% of the budget is spent on subsidizing petrol (gasoline), while it
> imports about a quarter of the petrol from the US at world market
> prices. This leaves no hard currency to import food.
>
> Most reasonably run countries are able to provide food for their
> citizens without much state intervention.

You mean like the U.S., where only 17.2 million households - one in every
seven - were food-insecure in 2010?
--
D.F. Manno