OK, I voted
Lesmond
need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
stopped working properly.
_
I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me.
Dover Beach
news:yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@130.81.64.196:
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me
> why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of
> them had already stopped working properly.
>
Wow. Could you tell if they had any paper ballots around as backup in
case they all failed, or all failed but two, or something?
--
Dover
Lesmond
No, I couldn't tell. But it would be a nice back up plan. We've always used
the "connect the dots" ballots before, which I always thought was laughably
low tech, but I've reconsidered.
As I was walking in I saw one of my neighboes who said, "Leave it to me to
get a machine that doesn't work." Hmmm. Great.
I was signing in next to one of the machines which had a group of poll
workers huddled around it. I could hear such things as, "I just don't know
how it got to this screen" and "Why can't we exit this screen?" I asked the
nice lady at the table if they were having problems and said yes, with two of
them. I saw a similar group huddled around another machine across the room.
Perhaps it was just temporary "technical difficulties", perhaps not.
Lars Eighner
lovely and talented Lesmond broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
> stopped working properly.
Well, being as it seems that I have lived until 7 a.m. they should count
my mail ballot if they got it. It remains to be seen whether they will
let the boy vote. Our mail service is spotty and his registration
certificate was not delivered when mine was. The tax accessor's web site
shows him registered, so I put together a packet of his stuff containing
mail cover of pet tags addressed to him, Social Security earnings statement
addressed to him here, last water bill we got in his name -- but it is a
couple of months old since the management changed and the new guys have not
figured out water billing yet, and the first page of our copy of the new
lease (marked "Copy") executed last month. No telling if that stuff will be
enough.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Close your eyes and press escape three times.
Kim
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me
> why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of
> them had already stopped working properly.
We voted, too. Same old decrepit machines, though.
Oh, and I asked one of the workers exactly when the judge's term expires -
she answered December 31, 2007.
That job is *so* mine next year.
So, I need you all to move here so you can vote for me!
--
Kim
http://thedarwinexception.wordpress.com
*I bet a big perk of owning the Heinz company is being able to use the
phrase "my massive pickle fortune" at parties. (John Gephart IV)*
Peter Boulding
<yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@130.81.64.196>:
>As I was walking in I saw one of my neighboes who said, "Leave it to me to
>get a machine that doesn't work." Hmmm. Great.
>
>I was signing in next to one of the machines which had a group of poll
>workers huddled around it. I could hear such things as, "I just don't know
>how it got to this screen" and "Why can't we exit this screen?" I asked the
>nice lady at the table if they were having problems and said yes, with two of
>them. I saw a similar group huddled around another machine across the room.
>
>Perhaps it was just temporary "technical difficulties", perhaps not.
From Firedoglake:
] If you have problems voting, or you witness some sort of voting
] irregularity, here's some useful information.
]
] Election Protection's 1-866-OUR-VOTE has live operators who can address
] some problems over the phone and dispatch lawyers on the ground, if
] necessary.
]
] Common Cause's 1-866-MYVOTE-1 can help people find their polling place.
]
] ...
]
] If you've voted already, how were things at the polls where you are? Long
] lines this morning? Problems with voting machines? Any irregularities?
] Then phone the 1-866-OUR-VOTE number and let them know about it — pronto.
--
Regards
Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Jim Ellwanger
"Lesmond" <les...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
> stopped working properly.
As I'm writing this at 6:55 A.M. PST, I'm about to head out to make the
4-block walk to my polling place and be one of the first voters in my
precinct. Here in Los Angeles County, they're using the same
stamp-an-ink-blob-in-the-bubble things that replaced the punches a few
years back, but for this election, the ballot boxes have a scanner
attached to check your ballot as you put it in.
--
Jim Ellwanger <use...@ellwanger.tv>
<http://www.ellwanger.tv> welcomes you daily.
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."
Mary
Kim wrote:
> Lesmond wrote:
> > On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me
> > why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of
> > them had already stopped working properly.
>
> We voted, too. Same old decrepit machines, though.
>
> Oh, and I asked one of the workers exactly when the judge's term expires -
> she answered December 31, 2007.
>
> That job is *so* mine next year.
>
> So, I need you all to move here so you can vote for me!
Do a Mayor Daley and send us all absentee ballots in the names of dead
people.
I'd love to vote for you but I can't commute from Malone...
Mary
Rick B.
news:tg71l2lqja31go6va...@4ax.com:
>] If you've voted already, how were things at the polls where you are?
>] Long lines this morning? Problems with voting machines? Any
>] irregularities? Then phone the 1-866-OUR-VOTE number and let them know
>] about it — pronto.
One person in the line when I got there; by the time I finished signing in
there was an open machine, with which I had no problems.
I feel incomplete, somehow. Help, help, I'm not bein' repressed!
darkon
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone
> tell me why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right.
> By 8AM, 2 of them had already stopped working properly.
That's ridiculous. ATMs dependably work outdoors through all sorts
of extremes of temperature and humidity. Counting votes is a simpler
problem than that faced by ATMs, and it's done indoors, so the
machines should be even more reliable than ATMS, not less.
Anny Middon
news:yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@130.81.64.196...
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why
> we
> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had
> already
> stopped working properly.
>
I voted. We used the fill-in-the-circle-like-it's-the-SAT style of ballot.
Of bigger concern is that the County Board of Elections apparently didn't
send out postcards giving the address of the polling place. Our polling
place changed, so this is more of a snafu than it otherwise would be. It
was still dark out when I was there, but I didn't notice the American flags
and signage that usually mark polling places. Maybe the staff hadn't gotten
them up yet.
Our neighbor who is a senior in high school was at the polling place, doing
some school-sanctioned community service. She commented sotto voce that it
all seemed really disorganized.
Also, on our ballot was the following referendum:
SHALL ELMHURST COMMUNITY UNIT SCHOOL DISTRICT 205 IMPLEMENT A WRITTEN POLICY
TO PERMIT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WITH "LUNCH LABS" (PERIODIC EXTENSIONS OF A
CLASS INTO A LUNCH PERIOD) THAT PERIODICALLY OVERLAP WITH OTHER CLASSES TO
BE PERMITTED TO ENROLL IN BOTH CLASSES IF SUCH ENROLLMENT WILL NOT RENDER
THE STUDENTS "CHRONICALLY ABSENT" IN EITHER CLASS?
(Sorry about the all caps, but I cut-and-pasted.)
I'm still trying to figure out why this is something that had to go to the
voters. Couldn't the school board have decided this?
Anny
art...@yahoo.com
Lesmond wrote:
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
> stopped working properly.
In my precinct, we voted using a ballot in which we had to fill in an
arrow (using a marker) The arrow had left and right parts and you had
to fill in the region between the 2. I have never seen this before, but
I have never heard any complaints either.
Jordan Abel
There's also a lot more buttons to press than "PIN number, 40 bucks, Yes
receipt." - and probably a lot more 'transactions' per hour.
John Dean
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me
> why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of
> them had already stopped working properly.
>
I presume that means that two of them were no longer accepting input in the
way they were supposed to. But who knows whether *any* of them are working
properly? Until the votes are counted. And maybe even then ....
--
John Dean
Oxford
Peter Boulding
<Xns987466EC9...@130.133.1.4>:
>One person in the line when I got there; by the time I finished signing in
>there was an open machine, with which I had no problems.
>
>I feel incomplete, somehow. Help, help, I'm not bein' repressed!
Does the machine you used provide an audit trail? Can your election
authorities be trusted to use it if necessary? If your answer is "no" to
either question, there's no need to feel left out.
What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable software,
hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS, absence of audit
trails, and so on, America would have been better off with hanging chads,
dimples, and so on.
There's nothing wrong with electronic voting in principle, but it's much
easier to subvert than old fashioned paper ballots: the software must be
open source; candidates and their representatives must be able to check that
the correct software is being used; election officials must not be political
appointees; election rules and funding formulae must be written into the
constitution and not subject to the whims of politicians; there must be an
audit trail; and that audit trail must be used both in a randomised
selection of polls and in all close races/results.
Lesmond
That's what we used until this year, except we used pencils. I always called
them "connect the dots" ballots.
Dhubghall
Of course it's not like the true incompetence of a bureaucracy can't shine
through and screw up paper ballots. Williamson county has scantron
ballots that have printed all over them "Do not fold scanning problems
will result". Well the ballots this year are too big for the old ballot
box so EVERY ballot has to be folded. I sometimes wonder what defect of
mental faculty is required to oversee election issues around here.
Dougall
Veronique
'Pends on how you define "properly."
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
HVS
> _
> I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me.
An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks broken
from this end.
(It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of dash-dash-
space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as a separator.)
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Patrick M Geahan
> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
> stopped working properly.
Although touch-screens were supposed to be an option, we voted using
easily the silliest voting method I've ever seen - our ballots had a
broken arrow, and for your candidate, you filled in the arrow.
Why we couldn't use circles, or punch ballots, I have no idea.
Still, the poll people were friendly, everything was in order, and I
was in and out in ten minutes. Can't complain about that.
--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@thepatcave.org---ICQ:3784715------
"You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time." - spa...@pffcu.com, a.f.c-a
art...@yahoo.com
Maybe the voting machines would work better if there was a $2.50
transaction fee?
darkon
> On 7 Nov 2006 15:07:01 GMT, "Rick B." <deep...@sprynet.com.aq>
> wrote in
><Xns987466EC9...@130.133.1.4>:
>
>>One person in the line when I got there; by the time I finished
>>signing in there was an open machine, with which I had no
>>problems.
>>
>>I feel incomplete, somehow. Help, help, I'm not bein' repressed!
>
> Does the machine you used provide an audit trail? Can your
> election authorities be trusted to use it if necessary? If your
> answer is "no" to either question, there's no need to feel left
> out.
If the paper publishes the complete counts of write-in votes for
races where Republicans ran unopposed, I'll know something is wrong
if Bugs Bunny doesn't get at least one vote.
Opus the Penguin
> What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable
> software, hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS,
> absence of audit trails, and so on, America would have been better
> off with hanging chads, dimples, and so on.
What do you use in the UK?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> As I'm writing this at 6:55 A.M. PST, I'm about to head out to make the
> 4-block walk to my polling place and be one of the first voters in my
> precinct. Here in Los Angeles County, they're using the same
> stamp-an-ink-blob-in-the-bubble things that replaced the punches a few
> years back, but for this election, the ballot boxes have a scanner
> attached to check your ballot as you put it in.
>
I was in line as our polls opened at 6 am, EST, with about
30 people ahead of me. By the time I voted there were at
least 50 in line waiting, more coming in the door, more
coming across the parking lot, and a line of cars waiting
to pull into the lot. Looks like a heavy turnout.
Charles
Peter Boulding
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote in
<Xns987474001CF14op...@127.0.0.1>:
>> What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable
>> software, hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS,
>> absence of audit trails, and so on, America would have been better
>> off with hanging chads, dimples, and so on.
>
>What do you use in the UK?
In two words: paper ballots.
Voters are registered by canvassing every residential property in each local
authority's area. Once a year a reply-paid voter registration form is sent
to each property; the householder is legally obliged to complete and return
the form. Properties from which no completed form is received are then
visited by nonpartisan election workers.
A voting card - stating where and when to vote - is posted to every
registered voter well in advance of each election. When you go to the
polling place to vote, an election worker asks your name and address, hands
you your ballot papers, and ticks off your name on the register as having
voted.
No voter ID is required, and you don't even have to remember to bring your
polling card. It's very rare for people to be told "Uh-oh: you've already
voted today."
The ballot paper is in the form of a two-column table: each row in the wide
left-hand column contains the name and party affiliation or platform of a
candidate; you pencil a nice big X in the right-hand column alongside your
chosen candidate.[1] You then post your completed paper into the slot in a
sealed ballot box.
Filled ballot boxes are taken to a counting centre, unsealed in the presence
of election observers, and the contents are counted by nonpartisan election
workers. The observers, who are representatives of the various candidates,
watch the count, point out mistakes, and can demand that an unreliable
sorter's piles of votes be resorted. They can also demand a complete recount
if the result is close.
Obviously this system is slow - the most rural of parliamentary
constituencies can take two days to declare a result, although most count
through the night and declare the result before dawn. And I won't claim that
the system is entirely free from corruption, but Great Britain would as yet
score high marks from Jimmy Carter's election monitoring organisation. (The
US couldn't even apply to be monitored, since it fails to obey several of
the organisation's basic rules for free and fair elections).
I say "as yet" because Blair - as in most matters - has been heading down
the US road. He's been encouraging postal voting (previously restricted to
those who could not possibly go to the local polling station) with
predictably corrupt consequences, especially perhaps in the case of
traditional Muslim households, where the head of the family expects to
control all members' votes). Blair has also flirted with electronic voting
and even with the concept of voting via SMS, and only drew back when he
realised that cheap, easily-subverted, privatised, Diebold-style electronic
systems would meet with overwhelming resistance.
[1] Elections to the European Parliament use a "preference" version of
proportional representation, so you mark the candidates 1, 2, 3... in order
of preference.
Lesmond
Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when I changed my
sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But I'm surprised you're the
first one who has mentioned it. Is it better now?
--
Lesmond
Update:
Another neighbor says that as of 11AM they all seemed to be functioning as
they should.
darkon
Sure, but it's still ridiculous that they've broken down so quickly.
Doesn't inspire much confidence.
Not that I'm filled with confidence anyway:
FBI looking into possible Va. voter intimidation
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15603344/
Voting machine problems bedevil multiple states
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-07-election-main_x.htm
Early returns on voting machines
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/9149
New rules, machines frazzle poll workers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061107/ap_on_el_ge/eln_voting_problems
Vote machines crash in Ohio
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061107/pl_afp/usvotemachines_061107160114
Paul Ciszek
In article <gln624-...@www.thepatcave.org>,
Patrick M Geahan <pmgeah...@thepatcave.org> wrote:
>Lesmond <les...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
>> need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
>> stopped working properly.
>
>Although touch-screens were supposed to be an option, we voted using
>easily the silliest voting method I've ever seen - our ballots had a
>broken arrow, and for your candidate, you filled in the arrow.
>
>Why we couldn't use circles, or punch ballots, I have no idea.
How is that silly? It's obviously a scanner form, and they have
tried a different method of showing you where to darken the form,
but I don't see it as inherently stupider than filling in little
circles.
--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006
John Dean
Karl and Donnie and me, we know what "properly" means, thanks very much.
--
John Dean
Oxford
janec...@sbcglobal.net
Dover Beach wrote:
> "Lesmond" <les...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@130.81.64.196:
>
> > why we need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of
> > them had already stopped working properly.
> >
>
> case they all failed, or all failed but two, or something?
>
Then it rehashes your votes and you okay them. Then it prints a paper
ballot which you can view through a window. And you okay that. Then
you're done.
While I was waiting in line, i pointed out to my 3 year old son how
nice a little boy was waiting while his daddy voted, and could he wait
as nicely.
We happened to get the same machine as the daddy, and my son sat just
like the other little boy.
Until he noticed how cool voting was and decided to help me. I don't
think he managed to change any votes tapping the screen.
Veronique
Patrick M Geahan wrote:
> Lesmond <les...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On a brand spanking new touch screen machine. Could someone tell me why we
> > need 8 of them in a town of 2,500? Oh, right. By 8AM, 2 of them had already
> > stopped working properly.
>
> Although touch-screens were supposed to be an option, we voted using
> easily the silliest voting method I've ever seen - our ballots had a
> broken arrow, and for your candidate, you filled in the arrow.
>
> Why we couldn't use circles, or punch ballots, I have no idea.
We used the broken arrows too.
I liked the ones with slots to mark using a purple felt tip pen.
Actually, I am deeply nostalgic for voting booths and crankin' that
lever to open the curtain and count the ballot. They had a touch-screen
available with multiple paper audit redundancies.
John Hatpin
>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
>>An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks broken
>>from this end.
>>
>>(It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of dash-dash-
>>space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as a separator.)
>
>Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when I changed my
>sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But I'm surprised you're the
>first one who has mentioned it. Is it better now?
*pops head above parapet*
Yeah, that's fine, Lesmond. A real beauty of a sig delimiter, if you
ask me. Elegant, yet functional, and it has a certain quaint but
compelling charm to it, almost like a Monet painting viewed in the
Louvre on a late summer's afternoon, your lover on your arm and a poem
in your head.
I just don't understand your sig itself, that's all: "I'm afraid
philosophy is just too much responsibility for me". Where does that
come from?
--
John Hatpin
Lesmond
>
>
>Lesmond wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
>>>An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks broken
>>>from this end.
>>>
>>>(It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of dash-dash-
>>>space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as a separator.)
>>
>>Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when I changed my
>>sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But I'm surprised you're the
>>first one who has mentioned it. Is it better now?
>
>*pops head above parapet*
>
>Yeah, that's fine, Lesmond. A real beauty of a sig delimiter, if you
>ask me. Elegant, yet functional, and it has a certain quaint but
>compelling charm to it, almost like a Monet painting viewed in the
>Louvre on a late summer's afternoon, your lover on your arm and a poem
>in your head.
Why, thank you! That's the effect I was going for.
>
>I just don't understand your sig itself, that's all: "I'm afraid
>philosophy is just too much responsibility for me". Where does that
>come from?
I'm too embarrassed to tell you.
--
Lisa Ann
news:yD34h.1136$6t....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
I didn't get to my polling place until 7:45, but there were about 50 people
there when I got there...the line was the same length when I left, so it
looked like they were coming in as fast as we were voting.
Apparently it's a good thing I moved to SC: the new machines in my old home
county has had massive problems. (Indianapolis).
Lisa Ann
HVS
> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 07 Nov 2006, Lesmond wrote
>>
>>> _
>>> I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me.
>>
>> An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks
>> broken from this end.
>>
>> (It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of
>> dash-dash- space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as
>> a separator.)
>
> Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when
> I changed my sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But
> I'm surprised you're the first one who has mentioned it.
It's dem beguilin' eyes ya' got; it's hard to be harsh wiv somebody
wit beguilin' eyes....
> Is it better now?
Yes, it is -- and your sig's OK, too.
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Lesmond
>
>
>On 07 Nov 2006, Lesmond wrote
>
>> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07 Nov 2006, Lesmond wrote
>>>
>>>> _
>>>> I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me.
>>>
>>> An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks
>>> broken from this end.
>>>
>>> (It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of
>>> dash-dash- space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as
>>> a separator.)
>>
>> Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when
>> I changed my sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But
>> I'm surprised you're the first one who has mentioned it.
>
>It's dem beguilin' eyes ya' got; it's hard to be harsh wiv somebody
>wit beguilin' eyes....
Aw, thanks...hey, wait a minute. How can you see my eyes?
>
>> Is it better now?
>
>Yes, it is -- and your sig's OK, too.
STOP WATCHING ME!
--
Bob Ward
wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:43:15 GMT, HVS wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>On 07 Nov 2006, Lesmond wrote
>>
>>> On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07 Nov 2006, Lesmond wrote
>>>>
>>>>> _
>>>>> I'm afraid philosophy is just too much responsibility for me.
>>>>
>>>> An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks
>>>> broken from this end.
>>>>
>>>> (It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of
>>>> dash-dash- space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as
>>>> a separator.)
>>>
>>> Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when
>>> I changed my sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But
>>> I'm surprised you're the first one who has mentioned it.
>>
>>It's dem beguilin' eyes ya' got; it's hard to be harsh wiv somebody
>>wit beguilin' eyes....
>
>Aw, thanks...hey, wait a minute. How can you see my eyes?
>
>>
>>> Is it better now?
>>
>>Yes, it is -- and your sig's OK, too.
>
>STOP WATCHING ME!
John Hatpin
>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:27:33 +0000, John Hatpin wrote:
>
>>Yeah, that's fine, Lesmond. A real beauty of a sig delimiter, if you
>>ask me. Elegant, yet functional, and it has a certain quaint but
>>compelling charm to it, almost like a Monet painting viewed in the
>>Louvre on a late summer's afternoon, your lover on your arm and a poem
>>in your head.
>
>Why, thank you! That's the effect I was going for.
It's so easy to go wrong with a sig delimiter - to try too hard, or
not hard enough. I feel in my soul that your delimiter has somehow
captured the hearts and minds of our generation. For that, I thank
you, as I'm sure do many throughout the world.
>>I just don't understand your sig itself, that's all: "I'm afraid
>>philosophy is just too much responsibility for me". Where does that
>>come from?
>
>I'm too embarrassed to tell you.
So, I need to Google. Ah yes, Tim Curry.
It would be really funny, wouldn't it, if he and Tim Rice collaborated
on a Broadway musical or something. Lots of people would laugh, some
of them quite loudly.
I'll bet I'm absolutely the first person in the whole wide world to
make that observation.
--
John Hatpin
Bill Turlock
cute, Marie
Estron
>We switched from arrows to ovals this year. And I thought I was the
>only one who missed the voting booths. I have fond memories of the
>first time I was eligible to vote. Geek that I am, I couldn't
>understand why everyone else wasn't as excited as I was.
Every time that I have voted previously, I've done so in an enclosure -- a
voting booth with curtains when I marked a paper ballot, or the wings
enclosing the sides of the punching mechanism when I punched chads in
cardstock ballots.
Today, for the first time, I marked my ballot in the open.
The voting location was at the clubhouse of an upper-middle-class
subdivision. The ballots were paper fill-in-the-oval type, like someone
has described as "re-taking the SAT."
And I sat in a chair in this large room, leaned over a coffee table, and
filled in the ovals. No one was watching me that I knew of, but it was
still strange. Then I took my sheet to a machine that sucked it in,
clicked once or twice, proclaimed me Voter #421, and that was it.
--
All opinions expressed herein are only that, and are my own.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@kc.rr.com
Kansas City, Missouri
Veronique
John Hatpin wrote:
> Lesmond wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:50:27 GMT, HVS wrote:
> >>An aside -- and no big deal -- but your sig separator looks broken
> >>from this end.
> >>
> >>(It appears to be an underline-space-return, instead of dash-dash-
> >>space-return, so my newsread doesn't classify it as a separator.)
> >
> >Huh. Sorry about that. Yes, it seems I was holding shift when I changed my
> >sig this last time. Sometimes it's a reflex. But I'm surprised you're the
> >first one who has mentioned it. Is it better now?
>
> *pops head above parapet*
>
> Yeah, that's fine, Lesmond. A real beauty of a sig delimiter, if you
> ask me. Elegant, yet functional, and it has a certain quaint but
> compelling charm to it, almost like a Monet painting viewed in the
> Louvre on a late summer's afternoon, your lover on your arm and a poem
> in your head.
Not fetchingly tannic with a pepper nose and a refreshing aftertaste
reminiscent of chocolate and freshly cut hay?
V.
--
veronique Chez Sheep
Greg Goss
>Peter Boulding (p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk) wrote:
>
>> What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable
>> software, hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS,
>> absence of audit trails, and so on, America would have been better
>> off with hanging chads, dimples, and so on.
>
>What do you use in the UK?
In Canadian national or provincial election, there is only ONE vote
going on. With just one vote to cast, an X in a box or circle is easy
to count. We still use a paper ballot with a pencil in the booth.
In civic elections, it depends on the city. Both recent civic votes
I've placed were fill-in-the-middle-of-the-arrow and submit your
ballot through a reader into the box. If the ballot is invalid for
any reason, the reader rolls it backwards back into your hand. At
that time you can apply for a replacement ballot or fix the problem or
try again.
I assume that the UK is like the Canadian one. You select a name from
three to twelve (or so) choices and the ballots are hand-counted in
the half-hour after the polls close.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Jim Ellwanger
I got there at 7:10 and was the fifth person to vote in my precinct. I
didn't have to wait in line, not even for a booth (the polling place had
five booths for my precinct and five booths for the other precinct that
votes there).
--
Jim Ellwanger <use...@ellwanger.tv>
<http://www.ellwanger.tv> welcomes you daily.
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."
bill van
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Peter Boulding (p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk) wrote:
> >
> >> What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable
> >> software, hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS,
> >> absence of audit trails, and so on, America would have been better
> >> off with hanging chads, dimples, and so on.
> >
> >What do you use in the UK?
>
> In Canadian national or provincial election, there is only ONE vote
> going on. With just one vote to cast, an X in a box or circle is easy
> to count. We still use a paper ballot with a pencil in the booth.
>
Last election in B.C., we also had a referendum on the ballot, for a
partial proportional representation system. It fell just short of the 60
per cent needed to pass, and will probably be on the ballot again next
time.
bill
Greg Goss
Right. I forgot about that. I was in BC at the time. It was a
second piece of paper, again with one quesiton on it. I forget how it
was submitted -- whether it was dropped into a second box or whether
the two ballots were separated in the counting process.
Lesmond
Well, I never thought of it, at least.
--
Pixel Dent
"Anny Middon" <AnnyM...@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, on our ballot was the following referendum:
>
> SHALL ELMHURST COMMUNITY UNIT SCHOOL DISTRICT 205 IMPLEMENT A WRITTEN POLICY
> TO PERMIT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WITH "LUNCH LABS" (PERIODIC EXTENSIONS OF A
> CLASS INTO A LUNCH PERIOD) THAT PERIODICALLY OVERLAP WITH OTHER CLASSES TO
> BE PERMITTED TO ENROLL IN BOTH CLASSES IF SUCH ENROLLMENT WILL NOT RENDER
> THE STUDENTS "CHRONICALLY ABSENT" IN EITHER CLASS?
>
> (Sorry about the all caps, but I cut-and-pasted.)
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why this is something that had to go to the
> voters. Couldn't the school board have decided this?
>
> Anny
If I had to guess, based on nothing more than idle speculation, some
class had a project to get a question onto the ballot and either your
political district has a law allowing anything onto the ballot if enough
signatures are collected or they found a sympathetic town councilman,
county commissioner, whatever to help them shepherd it through the
ballot process.
art...@yahoo.com
> Also, on our ballot was the following referendum:
>
> SHALL ELMHURST COMMUNITY UNIT SCHOOL DISTRICT 205 IMPLEMENT A WRITTEN POLICY
> TO PERMIT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WITH "LUNCH LABS" (PERIODIC EXTENSIONS OF A
> CLASS INTO A LUNCH PERIOD) THAT PERIODICALLY OVERLAP WITH OTHER CLASSES TO
> BE PERMITTED TO ENROLL IN BOTH CLASSES IF SUCH ENROLLMENT WILL NOT RENDER
> THE STUDENTS "CHRONICALLY ABSENT" IN EITHER CLASS?
SURE, IF THEY GET TO SKIP THE TUNA SURPRISE
John Hatpin
>I assume that the UK is like the Canadian one. You select a name from
>three to twelve (or so) choices and the ballots are hand-counted in
>the half-hour after the polls close.
Sort of. The ballot boxes are actually taken, still sealed, to a
central place in each consituency, and counted there. When the polls
close, the polling station just winds down and loads their box(es)
into a car or a van to be taken to the count.
BTW, Peter Boulding's description of the process is spot-on, at least
as far as I can tell, and deserves a salute.
--
John Hatpin
John Hatpin
>John Hatpin wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, that's fine, Lesmond. A real beauty of a sig delimiter, if you
>> ask me. Elegant, yet functional, and it has a certain quaint but
>> compelling charm to it, almost like a Monet painting viewed in the
>> Louvre on a late summer's afternoon, your lover on your arm and a poem
>> in your head.
>
>Not fetchingly tannic with a pepper nose and a refreshing aftertaste
>reminiscent of chocolate and freshly cut hay?
No, it tastes of chicken.
--
John Hatpin
Peter Boulding
<use...@jfhgetridofthisbitopkin.kaandthisbittooroo.co.uk> wrote in
<n3r3l2ll15gh96pfd...@4ax.com>:
>BTW, Peter Boulding's description of the process is spot-on, at least
>as far as I can tell, and deserves a salute.
<bows>
--
Regards
Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Anny Middon
news:ERe4h.798$rU2...@newsfe14.lga...
I wondered that, too, even at the time I voted. Which is why I voted
against it. Now I'm wondering if it passed -- I'll have to go to the county
board website and find out.
If it failed, will the school board be bound to not allow students to enroll
in both classes? I think it would be good if that was required -- if the
point of the referendum was to learn about the election process, it ought
also be to learn about living with the results.
Anny
xho...@gmail.com
>
> In civic elections, it depends on the city. Both recent civic votes
> I've placed were fill-in-the-middle-of-the-arrow and submit your
> ballot through a reader into the box. If the ballot is invalid for
> any reason, the reader rolls it backwards back into your hand. At
> that time you can apply for a replacement ballot or fix the problem or
> try again.
Presumably overvotes are invalid. Are undervotes considered invalid? If
you write in a candidate, but don't fill in the bubble next to "write-in",
will it detect that as being invalid?
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
xho...@gmail.com
Only if they were previously bound to not allow that. More likely
it was previously at their discretion, and if the measure is defeated
it will still be at their discretion.
xho...@gmail.com
>
> Filled ballot boxes are taken to a counting centre, unsealed in the
> presence of election observers, and the contents are counted by
> nonpartisan election workers.
This sounds like a dandy voting system to me, but how much background
checking do you guys do on your election workers? How do you know they
are nonpartisan as opposed to being secretly partisan?
Anny Middon
news:20061108104841.149$c...@newsreader.com...
Anny
Anny Middon
news:1162925266.7...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> While I was waiting in line, i pointed out to my 3 year old son how
> nice a little boy was waiting while his daddy voted, and could he wait
> as nicely.
>
> We happened to get the same machine as the daddy, and my son sat just
> like the other little boy.
>
> Until he noticed how cool voting was and decided to help me. I don't
> think he managed to change any votes tapping the screen.
>
I'm glad your son saw voting as cool. I love to vote. I never feel more
American than I do when I stand in the booth with the ballot before me.
I truly don't understand why every eligible American hasn't registered to
vote. I don't understand why plenty of those registered don't bother to
vote.
OK, sometimes voting does seem a bit like an exercise in futility. This is
particularly true when there's only one candidate on the ballot. Oftentimes
I don't vote in that particular race. Even when that happens, I think
voting is really cool.
Speaking of not voting in certain races, the Chicago Tribune reported this:
"It all started when a Kentucky voter told poll worker Jeffery Steitz that
he didn't want to vote in a judicial election because he didn't know enough
about the candidates. Steitz told him he had to vote anyway. Authorities say
Steitz, 42, eventually grabbed the man by the neck and threw him out of the
polling place. "The poor guy went back in and he threw him out again," said
Lt. Col. Carl Yates of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. There was no
immediate response to a call seeking comment from Steitz at home."
Wile trolling the Trib website for that, I came across the review of last
night's Midterm Midtacular, where they quoted Stephen Colbert's marvelous
rant:
"Tomorrow, you're all going to wake up in a brave new world, where the
constitution gets trampled by an army of terrorist clones created in a
stem-cell research lab run by homosexual doctors who sterilize their
instruments over burning American flags, where tax-and-spend Democrats take
all your hard-earned money and use it to buy electric cars for National
Public Radio and teach evolution to illegal immigrants. And everybody's
high!"
Anny
Anny Middon
news:us12l2lb77o6f3akn...@4ax.com...
>
> We switched from arrows to ovals this year. And I thought I was the
> only one who missed the voting booths. I have fond memories of the
> first time I was eligible to vote. Geek that I am, I couldn't
> understand why everyone else wasn't as excited as I was.
>
first presidential election in which people under the age of 21 could vote
in Illinois. I was 19 and very excited, as were many of my fellow students
who waited patiently in line to cast their ballot.
Anny
Peter Boulding
<20061108113237.504$g...@newsreader.com>:
>This sounds like a dandy voting system to me, but how much background
>checking do you guys do on your election workers? How do you know they
>are nonpartisan as opposed to being secretly partisan?
Those who seal, transport, and open the boxes are local authority employees,
and *not* political appointees. A condition of employment in the field of
elections and electoral registration is that they not be members of a
political party. They are legally responsible for ensuring that election law
is obeyed and are answerable to the law, not to local politicians. (With
certain exceptions and a fair bit of self-deception we're just not into the
idea of political appointees here in the UK, and are somewhat boggled by the
whole idea of electing judges, prosecutors, law enforcement officers, etc..)
Those who canvass nonresponding properties for electoral registration
purposes are casual labour selected by the above nonpartisan officials
(they're usually local authority employees, but don't have to be). No party
affiliation restrictions apply, although the permanent election staff would
be in deep trouble were it found that they had favoured a particular party
when appointing them. It doesn't really matter much, since the electoral
register (list of the names and addresses of those qualified to vote) they
help create is a public document that can be challenged by anyone who spots
an inaccuracy.
As I say, our system may not be perfect, but we don't get stories of towns
like Daggett County, Utah, in which they have more registered voters than
total population, and in which the father of a law enforcement candidate
claims to have 14 adults living in his home.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> In article <yD34h.1136$6t....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>>I was in line as our polls opened at 6 am, EST, with about
>>30 people ahead of me. By the time I voted there were at
>>least 50 in line waiting, more coming in the door, more
>>coming across the parking lot, and a line of cars waiting
>>to pull into the lot. Looks like a heavy turnout.
>
>
> I got there at 7:10 and was the fifth person to vote in my precinct. I
> didn't have to wait in line, not even for a booth (the polling place had
> five booths for my precinct and five booths for the other precinct that
> votes there).
>
Not official, but by my estimate the voter turnout in my
town of Cheshire was 67-68%.
Charles
Greg Goss
wrote:
I acted as an observer for one of the parties in the 96 (?) provincial
election. In our case, the count took place at the polling station.
Greg Goss
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>
>> In civic elections, it depends on the city. Both recent civic votes
>> I've placed were fill-in-the-middle-of-the-arrow and submit your
>> ballot through a reader into the box. If the ballot is invalid for
>> any reason, the reader rolls it backwards back into your hand. At
>> that time you can apply for a replacement ballot or fix the problem or
>> try again.
>
>Presumably overvotes are invalid. Are undervotes considered invalid? If
>you write in a candidate, but don't fill in the bubble next to "write-in",
>will it detect that as being invalid?
The concept of a "write-in" vote is foreign to our understanding of
elections.
People often vote only on one or two issues that concern them. An
undervote in a multi-issue ballot should not be considered invalid.
In the federal and provincial elections, a spoiled ballot is often
deliberate - sending a message. As an observer for the Liberal party
in a provincial polling-station vote-count, I saw a ballot marked with
an "X" carefully marked EXCEPT inside the square. He had lifted the
pencil when crossing the square while drawing his oversized "X".
Across the bottom of the paper was written "I always vote Liberal, but
I don't vote for THIS Liberal."
John Hatpin
Presumably, the large distances involved between stations in your case
was a factor. Votes casted here can be in the Hull central counting
office something like fifteen minutes after the polls close.
--
John Hatpin
Bill Kinkaid
<AnnyM...@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Wile trolling the Trib website for that, I came across the review of last
>night's Midterm Midtacular, where they quoted Stephen Colbert's marvelous
>rant:
>
>"Tomorrow, you're all going to wake up in a brave new world, where the
>constitution gets trampled by an army of terrorist clones created in a
>stem-cell research lab run by homosexual doctors who sterilize their
>instruments over burning American flags, where tax-and-spend Democrats take
>all your hard-earned money and use it to buy electric cars for National
>Public Radio and teach evolution to illegal immigrants. And everybody's
>high!"
>
We like it that way here in Canada, and you'll like it too.
--
Bill in Vancouver
Peter Boulding
<5a91l2h2gamb9fm5h...@4ax.com>:
>What with proprietary software, hackable databases, hackable software,
>hackable operating systems and even a hackable BIOS, absence of audit
>trails, and so on, America would have been better off with hanging chads,
>dimples, and so on.
>
>There's nothing wrong with electronic voting in principle, but it's much
>easier to subvert than old fashioned paper ballots: the software must be
>open source; candidates and their representatives must be able to check that
>the correct software is being used; election officials must not be political
>appointees; election rules and funding formulae must be written into the
>constitution and not subject to the whims of politicians; there must be an
>audit trail; and that audit trail must be used both in a randomised
>selection of polls and in all close races/results.
From today's NYT:
----------------------
... Voting experts say it is impossible to say how many votes were not
counted that should have been. But in Florida alone, the discrepancies
reported across Sarasota County and three others amount to more than 60,000
votes. In Colorado, as many as 20,000 people gave up trying to vote,
election officials say, as new online systems for verifying voter
registrations crashed repeatedly. And in Arkansas, election officials
tallied votes three times in one county, and each time the number of ballots
cast changed by more than 30,000.
“If the success of an election is to be measured according to whether each
voter's voice is heard, then we would have to conclude that this past
election was not entirely a success,” said Doug Chapin, director of
Electionline.org, a nonpartisan election group that plans to release a
report Wednesday with a state-by-state assessment of voting. “In places
where the margin of victory was bigger than the margin of error, we looked
away from the problems, but in 2008 we might not have that luxury.”
Accusations of missing ballots and vote stuffing were not uncommon with
mechanical voting machines. But election experts say that with electronic
voting machines, the potential consequences of misdeeds or errors are of a
greater magnitude. A single software error can affect thousands of votes,
especially with machines that keep no paper record.
...
The recent problems will probably help propel legislation that has stalled
for months in Congress mandating that electronic voting machines have a
paper trail to better enable recounts. Less clear, experts say, is whether
anything will be done to address concerns about the lack of technicians to
troubleshoot machines, polling places with too few machines and poorly
trained workers, and a system run by partisan election officials who may
decide conflicts based on politics rather than policy.
---------------------
Read the whole thing at
<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/us/politics/26vote.html>
John Gilmer
> ... Voting experts say it is impossible to say how many votes were not
> counted that should have been. But in Florida alone, the discrepancies
> reported across Sarasota County and three others amount to more than
60,000
> votes. In Colorado, as many as 20,000 people gave up trying to vote,
> election officials say, as new online systems for verifying voter
> registrations crashed repeatedly. And in Arkansas, election officials
> tallied votes three times in one county, and each time the number of
ballots
> cast changed by more than 30,000.
So?
What's the botton line? Did the Republicans really win and the democRATs
steal the election?
EMWTK
Peter Boulding
wrote in <4569a1cb$0$28...@dingus.crosslink.net>:
>So?
>
>What's the botton line? Did the Republicans really win and the democRATs
>steal the election?
Who knows?
Maybe they did: maybe Dem hackers managed to switch crucial results; the
hackability of Diebold's widely-used touch screen systems is, for example,
well documented. Or maybe Pub hackers arranged for Dems to win in order that
the blame for the Iraq debacle could be spread around before the much more
crucial election in two years' time. Or maybe the Pubs' private polling
underestimated the Foley effect, so that the percentage of votes they
thought they needed to switch in order to achieve a narrow and therefore
just-about-credible win proved to be insufficient. Or maybe the Dems'
private polling underestimated the Foley effect, so that the level of fiddle
they thought they needed to ensure that the Pubs get all the blame as Iraq
spirals out of control proved to be insufficient.
Or maybe many of the electronic systems now in use are just a cheap, poorly
specified, poorly designed, poorly made, and poorly and/or dishonestly
controlled, pile of crap; that some results leaned one way and some the
other with a totally unacceptable degree of inaccuracy, and we really have
no idea what the people of America really wanted.
The bottom line is that privatized proprietary voting systems have no place
in a democracy, especially when they don't provide an adequate audit trail,
and most especially when those running elections are political appointees.
Boron Elgar
Did Katherine Harris tell you all that?
Boron
Jerry Bauer
(in article <4569a1cb$0$28...@dingus.crosslink.net>):
> What's the botton line? Did the Republicans really win and the democRATs
> steal the election?
That's the point. There is no way to tell.
Peter Boulding
wrote in <3ehjm2llm578n4rdq...@4ax.com>:
>>The bottom line is that privatized proprietary voting systems have no place
>>in a democracy, especially when they don't provide an adequate audit trail,
>>and most especially when those running elections are political appointees.
>Did Katherine Harris tell you all that?
<chuckle>
Peter Boulding
in <0001HW.C18F09E1...@news.earthlink.net>:
>> What's the botton line? Did the Republicans really win and the democRATs
>> steal the election?
>
>That's the point. There is no way to tell.
I suspect Mr Gilmer believes I wouldn't be bitching if I didn't assume that
the Pubs are the ones fiddling the electronic returns. You see the same sort
of thinking all over the place: the assumption, for example, that those who
bitch about Bush undermining the constitution do so only because it produces
results that don't suit their politics. Many beltway pols - including Hilary
Clinton and her hangers-on - seem to think they can harness, or at least
tame, the so-called 'liberal blogosphere' ... I trust they are mistaken;
thanks to Tony Blair we Brits know where that road leads. "The creatures
outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man
again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
Greg Goss
In one congressional (equivalent to MP) election in Florida a
Republican won because a bunch of democrat votes turned up blank in
the machine. Thus the margin should have been one more than it was.
Software and user interfaces being as famously flakey as they are, it
will never be possible to prove whether this was intentional or just
stupid design. In the equivalent case in 2000, the defective user
interface that led to the Democrat defeat was designed by a Democrat.
Peter Boulding
<4sua5cF...@mid.individual.net>:
>Software and user interfaces being as famously flakey as they are, it
>will never be possible to prove whether this was intentional or just
>stupid design.
Software and user interfaces are not all famously flaky. Some are abysmal;
most are mediocre; some - like the one you used to post your message - are
equally famously logical, consistent, and reliable.
Why is this? It depends - more than on any other factors - on the
motivations of those who specify them and those who fund and manage their
creation.
John Gilmer
> The bottom line is that privatized proprietary voting systems have no
place
> in a democracy, especially when they don't provide an adequate audit
trail,
> and most especially when those running elections are political appointees.
If you are trying to start a fight with me you are doing a piss poor job!
"Around here" we have mark sense ballots. The votes are counted with a
reader in each polling place but if the reader were to go "tits up" the
paper ballot are still there to be counter later or re-counted. It's a
very reliable system. It has some of the risk the the old paper ballots
had but since the ballot is just an 8 1/2x11" paper that is only counted
with a machine some of the old "dirty tricks" such as "chain voting" are
quite difficult to pull off.
>
Peter Boulding
wrote in <456a2229$0$28...@dingus.crosslink.net>:
>If you are trying to start a fight with me you are doing a piss poor job!
Sorry. I thought you were trying to start one with me.
Blinky the Shark
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:44:37 -0500, "John Gilmer" <gil...@crosslink.net>
> wrote in <456a2229$0$28...@dingus.crosslink.net>:
>
>>If you are trying to start a fight with me you are doing a piss poor job!
>
> Sorry. I thought you were trying to start one with me.
Well, then it looks like you're both doing a piss-poor job of it.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
Peter Boulding
<slrnemka5r....@thurston.blinkynet.net>:
>>>If you are trying to start a fight with me you are doing a piss poor job!
>>
>> Sorry. I thought you were trying to start one with me.
>
>Well, then it looks like you're both doing a piss-poor job of it.
I do apologise.
Peter Boulding
<0mkjm2hovs8lheph9...@4ax.com>:
>>>The bottom line is that privatized proprietary voting systems have no place
>>>in a democracy, especially when they don't provide an adequate audit trail,
>>>and most especially when those running elections are political appointees.
>
>>Did Katherine Harris tell you all that?
>
><chuckle>
'Roll Call' reckons she's secretly plotting to run for President in '08.
Boron Elgar
<p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:46:26 +0000, I wrote in
><0mkjm2hovs8lheph9...@4ax.com>:
>
>>>>The bottom line is that privatized proprietary voting systems have no place
>>>>in a democracy, especially when they don't provide an adequate audit trail,
>>>>and most especially when those running elections are political appointees.
>>
>>>Did Katherine Harris tell you all that?
>>
>><chuckle>
>
>'Roll Call' reckons she's secretly plotting to run for President in '08.
Maybe Giuliani will take her as a VP candidate.
He was dog food before 9-11 and she is dog food now.
Boron
Boron Elgar
<phil...@RDU.mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, she's been dog food since 2000.
Well, we thought so, of course, but the GOP did not desert here until
this year.
Boron