Ping Opus - church sign slogans
DT
the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
a bit empty lately:
"Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
--
Dennis
Kim
news:20091113-2...@DT.news.wowway.com...
I love our church signs here in town - they are often quite clever. This
week's sign says "Be an organ donor - give Jesus your heart."
--
Kim
www.thedarwinexception.wordpress.com
*My GPS says "Estimated Arrival Time." I see "Time to Beat." *
Opus the Penguin
It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
I think there's truth to it. But I bet you're right that this
particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
must be struggling right now.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Lesmond
I really must restrain myself right now. But wait until Christmas.
--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.
Mitch
wrote:
> "DT" <dthompson4...@SPAMwowway.com> wrote in message
>
> news:20091113-2...@DT.news.wowway.com...
>
> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
> > the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
> > a bit empty lately:
>
> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> I love our church signs here in town - they are often quite clever. This
> week's sign says "Be an organ donor - give Jesus your heart."
Which begs to be modded to, "- cut your penis off and mail it in."
-Mitch (...as you lick the boots of death born out of fear..."
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
>> given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
>> platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>
>
> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
> I think there's truth to it. But I bet you're right that this
> particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
> must be struggling right now.
>
ending, when we had to handle a pending $35,000 deficit in the budget
figures. This next year it looks more like a $10,000 deficit, which is
something we can find a way around. And who knows, there are still a lot
of pledges out and pending; maybe things will be better than we project.
I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
re-pointing.
Charles
John Hatpin
I'm sure they're not talking about money here - they mean give God
your heart, your love, your kindness - the Lord has no need of money,
indeed demonstrated through his son Jesus Christ how much he despises
wealth. No church would sully the name of the Lord by asking for
*money* in His name - it would be sacrilege.
--
John Hatpin
http://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/
Mike Williams
Also the fact that the law of tithing has recently been repealed might
be having an effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjLYY_C40tQ
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
Bill Turlock
Ob:OBG "We just toss the collection plate up in the air, and let
god take what he wants we get the rest"
DT
RemoveThi...@gmailAndThisToo.com says...
Ah, that's an interesting take on it. This church is in Lorain, Ohio, an
impoverished steel town. Within memory the shipyards have closed, the Ford
assembly plant closed, the steel works crippled, and many other secondary
plants closed. So money is tight.
We lived in Lorain until I was 13. My dad was a State Farm Insurance agent
there, and among the top ones in the country. We talked about it not that
long ago, and he said that with the many thousands of people who moved to
Lorain in the 1950's because of the new Ford plant and the booming economy,
insurance was a high growth occupation.
--
Dennis
DT
opusthepen...@gmail.com says...
>DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
>> given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
>> platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
>I think there's truth to it. But I bet you're right that this
>particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
>must be struggling right now.
It seems I quoted it incorrectly, it really reads: "Give God what is due,
not what is left".
--
Dennis
John Hatpin
I was being ironic, Dennis. Nothing more than that.
Lisa Ann
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
>> given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
>> platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>
>
>It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
>I think there's truth to it. But I bet you're right that this
>particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
>must be struggling right now.
According to our pastor, the biggest problem we're having is helping
church members out with their utility bills and groceries.
Scott started his new job, and I've been back to work for 3 weeks now,
so we're to the good again.
--
Lisa Ann
Lisa Ann
I take it prosperity gospel hasn't hit the UK yet?
--
Lisa Ann
landotter
Oh crap. I was just gonna regift this Deepak Chopra carving set.
K_S_ONeill
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:07:10 +0000, John Hatpin
>
It never will. As far as I can tell the only place crazy US religion
exports at all well to is Australia, and even that's annecdotal.
--
Kevin
Lisa Ann
Nope, Pentacostalism is spreading like wildfire, and that's somewhat
crazy.
I just read a book by Barbara Ehrenreich about how "positive thinking"
has basically turned us into a nation of stupid assholes. While
reading the book, I started thinking she had a very good point -
especially when she was talking about "prosperity gospel". I'm pretty
sure that God doesn't really give a shit if I have a 4,000 square foot
house, more money than Bill Gates and own a Mercedes and a Jaguar. At
least I hope God doesn't give a shit about it. I hope he's got bigger
things on his mind than whether or not I've got a lot of crap that
lets me make others feel bad for not having as much crap.
--
Lisa Ann
Les Albert
<lisa...@stalnakershampine.com> wrote:
>I just read a book by Barbara Ehrenreich about how "positive thinking"
>has basically turned us into a nation of stupid assholes. While
>reading the book, I started thinking she had a very good point -
>especially when she was talking about "prosperity gospel". I'm pretty
>sure that God doesn't really give a shit if I have a 4,000 square foot
>house, more money than Bill Gates and own a Mercedes and a Jaguar. At
>least I hope God doesn't give a shit about it. I hope he's got bigger
>things on his mind than whether or not I've got a lot of crap that
>lets me make others feel bad for not having as much crap.
He is to busy looking after the bugs:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For every person on the earth, there are two hundred million insects.
More insects can be found in only ten square feet of rainforest than
there are people in Manhattan. One square mile of rural land can hold
more insects than there are human beings on Earth.
www.rusticgirls.com/animals/bug-facts.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Les
DT
>I was being ironic, Dennis. Nothing more than that.
I can't tell any more unless the Irony Police jump on the post.
--
Dennis
Mark Steese
@news.eternal-september.org:
> "DT" <dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com> wrote in message
> news:20091113-2...@DT.news.wowway.com...
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
>> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
>> a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> I love our church signs here in town - they are often quite clever. This
> week's sign says "Be an organ donor - give Jesus your heart."
Here in K-Falls we have a "Glad Tidings Worship Centre," which tries for
that sort of thing but never quite gets there. At the moment their sign
reads "God is at the end of your rope." I think I see what they're getting
at, but there *must* be a better way of phrasing it.
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the
banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
Ted The Cat
What is brick re-pointing?
QueBarbara
<lisa...@stalnakershampine.com> wrote:
>
>Scott started his new job, and I've been back to work for 3 weeks now,
>so we're to the good again.
You got a job? That's great! Did you get the job you were hoping to
get?
--
QueBarbara
huey.c...@gmail.com
Sometimes called tuckpointing, s'when brick walls get old, and the
surface of the exposed mortar crumbles away, so to keep your wall from
falling over, you mix up some new mortar, put it on the back of the
point of a trowel, and tuck it back in there. Trivial to do within six
feet or so of the ground, kind of a pain in the ass to do on the second
floor, or up the side of the chimney, unless you have a half-dozen
sections of pipe scaffolding just laying around, so most folks pay a
bricklayer to do it.
$800 sounds like a weekend's work for one guy, or one day's work for two
guys -- $40 worth of mortar, and $760 for putting it all back in the
zillions of tiny holes it belongs in.
--
Huey
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Charles
Opus the Penguin
That's a little snappier. I bet they've got a book full of pithy one-
liners to choose from.
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:50:48 -0500, DT wrote:
>
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
>> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
>> a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> I really must restrain myself right now. But wait until Christmas.
You're worried that if you let God have it with what He deserves, Santa
won't give you any presents?
Xho
John Hatpin
> >I was being ironic, Dennis. Nothing more than that.
>
> I can't tell any more unless the Irony Police jump on the post.
With me, you can pretty much assume that nothing I write is serious.
The little bit of serious stuff I do occasionally write isn't worth
reading anyway.
John Hatpin
It's probably called "Lots Of Short But Wise Sayings That Will Get The
Point Across As Succinctly And Tersely As Is Humanly Possible Without
Losing Any Of The Meaning".
jeff_wisnia
> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
> a bit empty lately:
>
> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
My favorite:
http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/church.jpg
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
Jon M
Isn't that why God gave us Twitter?
--
Jon "second reference to God today" M
DT
>DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>
>> In article <Xns9CC2B1BF68956op...@192.168.1.101>,
>> opusthepen...@gmail.com says...
>>>DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>>
>>>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
>>>> irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I
>>>> guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>>>
>>>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>>It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different
>>>ways. I think there's truth to it. But I bet you're right that
>>>this particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches
>>>nationwide must be struggling right now.
>> It seems I quoted it incorrectly, it really reads: "Give God what
>> is due, not what is left".
>That's a little snappier. I bet they've got a book full of pithy one-
>liners to choose from.
Didn't you get one? I thought you were ministering, or pastoring, or
something.
--
Dennis
DT
jwisnia...@conversent.net says...
>DT wrote:
>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
>> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
>> a bit empty lately:
>>
>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>My favorite:
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/church.jpg
Wow, is that for real?
--
Dennis
jeff_wisnia
I dunno, I "borrowed" it here:
http://www.ratewall.com/cnt/view_group.aspx?cgi=407
Jeff
Speaking of signs, I had lunch today with two of my sons at Joan and
Ed's deli in Natick Mass. The place has lots of clever signs posted all
over the walls.
And the following IS a true story.
When I visited the small men's room there was just one conventional
toilet there and the wall behind it and the sink was mirrored.
I was standing there doing my thing facing the mirror. Then I noticed a
sign on the side wall. It read:
"Objects in mirror may be smaller than they appear"
Les Albert
wrote:
>jwisnia...@conversent.net says...
>>DT wrote:
>>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
>>> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
>>> a bit empty lately:
>>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>My favorite:
>>http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/church.jpg
>Wow, is that for real?
You can make your own church sign:
http://www.says-it.com/churchsigns/
Les
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
I vaguely know what regular brick re-pointing is. I'm more curious
about emergency brick re-pointing.
Xho
--
Does it involve the caste of Amogiogo?
Bill Turlock
or the one you deserved?
Nick Spalding
on Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:37:18 -0800:
That's where Jeff's one came from, Classic 3 at the bottom of the page.
Same background and all.
--
Nick Spalding
Peter Ward
>
> DT wrote:
>
> > >I was being ironic, Dennis. Nothing more than that.
> >
> > I can't tell any more unless the Irony Police jump on the post.
>
> With me, you can pretty much assume that nothing I write is serious.
> The little bit of serious stuff I do occasionally write isn't worth
> reading anyway.
Seriously?
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
I usually just search the web until I find a page that agrees with me.
- Opus the Penguin
Raven-Poe
> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
> > given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
> > platter has been a bit empty lately:
> >
> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
> I think there's truth to it.
Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to sit in
judgement of God, no? Seems like that sentinement is at odds with other
curhch dogma.
> But I bet you're right that this particular statement was driven by the
> economy. Churches nationwide must be struggling right now.
Perhaps, but I'd bet it's becuase the outgo has increased more than the
income. I'd expect bad times to increase attendance which would be the
primary factor influencing the amount of money in the collection plate at
the end of the week.
John
--
Here, have 10 Tithe Points (TM)
Remove the dead poet to e-mail.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Les Albert
wrote:
>Les Albert wrote
>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:19:41 -0500, DT <dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com>
>> wrote:
>> >jwisnia...@conversent.net says...
>> >>DT wrote:
>> >>> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
>> >>> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
>> >>> a bit empty lately:
>> >>> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>> >>My favorite:
>> >>http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/church.jpg
>> >Wow, is that for real?
>> You can make your own church sign:
>> http://www.says-it.com/churchsigns/
>That's where Jeff's one came from, Classic 3 at the bottom of the page.
>Same background and all.
I thought it might be one of the fake signs, but I didn't bother to
look at them.
Les
Jon M
Bad times may increase attendance, but if all the new parishioners are
out of a job, tithing isn't going to help the church much. Ten percent
of nothing is nothing.[1]
That makes 'giving G-d His due' more of a service fee, and less of a
bribe. Bribes are paid up front. On second thought, it's more of a
tax. You can hold off paying your taxes.
Jon M
Dover Beach
John Hatpin
> Ted The Cat wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 8:23 pm, "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimm...@snet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
> >> re-pointing.
> >
> > What is brick re-pointing?
>
> I vaguely know what regular brick re-pointing is. I'm more curious
> about emergency brick re-pointing.
If a brick wall (or chimney, etc) isn't repointed for a long time,
depending on climate, etc, it can get to the stage where it's in
danger of collapsing.
Happened to garden wall of ours once - my son had lost his ball into
next door's garden (yard) and a "friend" of ours who was visiting
decided to hop over an old brick wall to retrieve it. The brick wall
halved in height - he was lucky it didn't fall on him. Bastard never
paid for it to be relaid, either.
John Hatpin
> John Hatpin says...
> >
> > DT wrote:
> >
> > > >I was being ironic, Dennis. Nothing more than that.
> > >
> > > I can't tell any more unless the Irony Police jump on the post.
> >
> > With me, you can pretty much assume that nothing I write is serious.
> > The little bit of serious stuff I do occasionally write isn't worth
> > reading anyway.
>
> Seriously?
Only kidding - I never make jokes.
Les Albert
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>
>> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
>> > irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I
>> > guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>> >
>> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
>> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different
>> ways. I think there's truth to it.
>
> Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to sit in
> judgement of God, no?
Can't say I follow your reasoning there, no.
John Hatpin
"Is God good enough to deserve $50? How much *does* He deserve?"
Opus the Penguin
Everything you can possibly give.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Ted The Cat wrote:
>> On Nov 13, 8:23 pm, "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimm...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
>>> re-pointing.
>>
>>
>> What is brick re-pointing?
>
> I vaguely know what regular brick re-pointing is. I'm more curious
> about emergency brick re-pointing.
>
the defect was that was causing occasional water leaks into the parish
hall when I noticed a problem with the north wall of the sanctuary, or
rather that part of the north wall of the sanctuary which projects above
the roof level of the parish hall, and which lower down actually
constitutes the south wall of the parish hall. I found several places
where mortar had fallen out from between the bricks and several other
places where the mortar was badly cracked. All of this was not too
surprising, upon reflection, when one considers that the sanctuary was
constructed in 1839. Now, while the leaks in the ceiling of the parish
hall were nowheres near the sanctuary wall, it is also true that the
leaks only showed up when there was a strong wind from the northeast
along with a heavy rain. So it suddenly hit me that such conditions
could be forcing rain into the defects between the brickwork, after
which the water could be traveling downward until it met the place where
the parish hall roof met the sanctuary north wall, and then working its
way under the roof and traveling horizontally until it found a suitable
place to drip down through the ceiling. So, the logical thing to do was
to have selective re-pointing of the defective parts of the masonry, and
to have it done as soon as possible before the winter storms began.
Thus, emergency re-pointing.
Charles
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Perhaps, but I'd bet it's becuase the outgo has increased more than the
> income. I'd expect bad times to increase attendance which would be the
> primary factor influencing the amount of money in the collection plate at
> the end of the week.
Depends upon the Church, I would expect. Our primary source of funding
is from parishioners fulfilling their pledges. Loose collection makes up
only about 3% of our income. When times are bad the parishioners have a
harder time making their pledge payments, and loose collections don't
get any bigger.
Charles
Charles Wm. Dimmick
And all of us [with maybe one or two exceptions] fall far short of that.
huey.c...@gmail.com
So last time I'm in San Francisco, this panhandler dances up with this
sign that says "Need money for pot and beer", and I told him "That's a
HORRIBLE sign. That's what _I_ need it for!". I point this out because
I'm curious: ...what does God need it for?
What sort of beer do you suppose God drinks? Would it be a really nice
ale, like the Dogfish Head 120-minute, or would it be one of those
thick, fruity belgian ales made by monks? Do you suppose He approves of
the almost pepperminty aftertaste of Delerium Tremens? Or is He more of
a Corsendonk guy, do you suppose? Or do you suppose He appreciates all
beers, great and small?
Next time I'm at the Brickskellar, I'm gonna ask what the staff thinks.
So long as they don't bring me that foul vanilla lambic again,
especially if I'm eating. Proof that the bible is not infallible: the
loin does not go down with the lambic.
--
Huey
John Hatpin
This is something I struggle to understand, and it's hard to state
what I don't understand without causing offence. I do *not* want to
cause offence, and the question is asked without malice but in the
pursuit of knowledge:
It's obvious that very, very few believers do give everything they
possibly can. How does one square this with one's belief? Even those
whose lives are ruled by their faith still seem to keep for themselves
more than they ought, at least by that tenet.
landotter
wrote:
> John Hatpin (RemoveThisjfhop...@gmailAndThisToo.com) wrote:
> > Opus the Penguin wrote:
> >> Raven-Poe (ra...@westnet.poe.com) wrote:
> >> >> DT (dthompson4...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>
> >> >> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
> >> >> > irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and all.
> >> >> > I guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>
> >> >> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> >> >> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of
> >> >> different ways. I think there's truth to it.
>
> >> > Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to sit
> >> > in judgement of God, no?
>
> >> Can't say I follow your reasoning there, no.
>
> > "Is God good enough to deserve $50? How much *does* He deserve?"
>
> Everything you can possibly give.
Of course--as if you look in the Hebrew bible--god is one mean and
vengeful mother. Not that there's any actual evidence of this or
compassion either.
Giving to a religious group instead of a legitimate charity strikes me
as deeply immoral. With all charity you have a certain amount of
overhead--and with churchy tithing, part of the overhead is lying to
people and abusing children through brainwashing and indoctrination
with lies that will scar them for life. I'd rather just pay for
administration and a bit of punch for the yearly fund raiser. If we're
gonna eradicate rickets, we can't afford to waste money on frivolous
crap.
Dover Beach
news:81a241bf-1638-4aaf...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
> Giving to a religious group instead of a legitimate charity strikes me
> as deeply immoral. With all charity you have a certain amount of
> overhead--and with churchy tithing, part of the overhead is lying to
> people and abusing children through brainwashing and indoctrination
> with lies that will scar them for life. I'd rather just pay for
> administration and a bit of punch for the yearly fund raiser. If we're
> gonna eradicate rickets, we can't afford to waste money on frivolous
> crap.
>
>
Were you raised by Ingmar Bergman's father or something? No one's as
rabidly anti-religion as you are without having been raised
fundamentalist.
--
Dover
Opus the Penguin
We are all sinners. We all love this world too much and believe not
enough in the world that is to come.
Opus the Penguin
> John Hatpin <RemoveThi...@gmailandthistoo.com> wrote:
>> Opus the Penguin wrote:
>> > Raven-Poe (ra...@westnet.poe.com) wrote:
>> > > Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>> > >> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
>> > >> > irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and
>> > >> > all. I guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>> > >> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of
>> > >> different ways. I think there's truth to it.
>> > > Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to
>> > > sit in judgement of God, no?
>> > Can't say I follow your reasoning there, no.
>> "Is God good enough to deserve $50? How much *does* He deserve?"
>
> So last time I'm in San Francisco, this panhandler dances up with
> this sign that says "Need money for pot and beer", and I told him
> "That's a HORRIBLE sign. That's what _I_ need it for!". I point
> this out because I'm curious: ...what does God need it for?
>
God himself makes this point in Psalm 50: "For every beast of the
forest is mine,/ the cattle on a thousand hills.... If I were hungry,
I would not tell you/ for the world and its fullness are mine."
Under the New Testament, I believe there is no outwardly imposed
obligation to give anything. There is only the inward compulsion of
the Holy Spirit and the cheerful giving of those who are thankful,
who value the things of heaven more than the things of earth, who
seek fellowship with other believers, and who want to show mercy to
the poor.
Jim Beaver
"Ted The Cat" <tedth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:28adcf03-0806-425e...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
> >> given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
> >> platter has been a bit empty lately:
>
> >> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> > It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
> > particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
> > must be struggling right now.
>
> ending, when we had to handle a pending $35,000 deficit in the budget
> figures. This next year it looks more like a $10,000 deficit, which is
> something we can find a way around. And who knows, there are still a lot
> of pledges out and pending; maybe things will be better than we project.
>
> I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
> re-pointing.
>What is brick re-pointing?
Changing the direction in which you aim them.
Jim Beaver
Mary
Charles' church is funding people who throw bricks?
Mary
Hieronymus Agricola
(in article <gk4Mm.131839$5n1.62170@attbi_s21>):
Only those people without sin.
--
Jerry Randal Bauer
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Mary wrote:
> > Jim Beaver wrote:
> >>> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimm...@snet.net> wrote:
> >>>> I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
> >>>> re-pointing.
> >>> What is brick re-pointing?
> >> Changing the direction in which you aim them.
> Only those people without sin.
People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass?
--
Huey
Mary
And I thought that was stones. Theology marches on, eh?
Mary
John Hatpin
(Thanks for answering, Opus - I'd have understood of you'd not.)
Is this connected to the concept of original sin? My guess is that it
is, in that all humans are seen to have inherited A&E's sinfulness.
While on A&E and OS, are there any significant Christian churches in
the USA that do not believe in original sin? And why is original sin
not recognised in Judaism, but is in Christianity? Is it not an Old
Testament issue, since the story of the Fall is there?
(No, I'm not laying a trap. This is purely genuine curiosity.)
landotter
That claim doesn't hold any water, does it?
Opus the Penguin
Yes, that would be the connection.
> While on A&E and OS, are there any significant Christian churches
> in the USA that do not believe in original sin?
It may depend on how you define the term. Liberal mainline churches
don't really require a belief in the historicity of Adam and Eve, or
of the resurrection of Christ for that matter. So all these concepts
become metaphors to play around with in various ways.
> And why is
> original sin not recognised in Judaism, but is in Christianity?
> Is it not an Old Testament issue, since the story of the Fall is
> there?
>
> (No, I'm not laying a trap. This is purely genuine curiosity.)
I'm curious too. I did a little reading way back when on the various
streams of thought in Judaism regarding this subject. But I don't
recall well enough to summarize.
Snidely
Dunno. Do you have evidence one way or the other?
/dps
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:50:30 +0000:
According to a program I was watching last night on BBC4, 'The History
of Christianity', by an Oxford prof whose name I don't recall and isn't
in the program, OS was pretty much invented by Augustine of Hippo who
lived from 354 to 430AD. As the man said on the telly not everyone can
see any biblical justification for it.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo>
--
Nick Spalding
Nick Spalding
<4Yudnfajhp5j5p3W...@speakeasy.net>
on Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:09:02 -0600:
> Next time I'm at the Brickskellar, I'm gonna ask what the staff thinks.
> So long as they don't bring me that foul vanilla lambic again,
> especially if I'm eating. Proof that the bible is not infallible: the
> loin does not go down with the lambic.
Admiring groan.
--
Nick Spalding
Peter Ward
It's a highly offensive concept anyway.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
The only thing MPs never tax is their own brains.
Richard R. Hershberger
>
> >> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated,
> >> given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the
> >> platter has been a bit empty lately:
>
> >> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> > It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different ways.
> > particular statement was driven by the economy. Churches nationwide
> > must be struggling right now.
>
> We are struggling, but not as badly this coming year as the year just
> ending, when we had to handle a pending $35,000 deficit in the budget
> figures. This next year it looks more like a $10,000 deficit, which is
> something we can find a way around. And who knows, there are still a lot
> of pledges out and pending; maybe things will be better than we project.
Our envelope and open plate has been holding up well, rather to our
surprise. Our problem is other sources of income. We rent parking
spaces during the week, and this has been running below capacity.
Hall rental is also down. Partly this is a general crappy economy
issue, but our hall is also routinely used by film crews. The Wire
was a staple for years. The recent Die Hard film also used us, since
they were using Baltimore city hall to stand in for DC federal
architecture. But there hasn't been any significant film shoots in
town the past few years. Finally, investments generally tanked last
year.
Last year would have been dire were it not that (and there is no
really good way to put this) the right person died, leaving a $150K
bequest to the church. That got us through the year. This year the
investments have made a comeback. We are in the red, but matters are
not desparate.
Richard R. Hershberger
Veronique
> Last year would have been dire were it not that (and there is no
> really good way to put this) the right person died, leaving a $150K
> bequest to the church.
But that's one of the curses of the non-profit world; I'll never
forget my first meeting when an organization touched on starting a
capital campaign, and one of the board members said, "Look, we've got
to be cultivating old people who will die and leave us money!" (He was
fairly wealthy though non-old, and had worked on several boards
raising multiple hundreds of thousands, so he had some experience.)
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Richard R. Hershberger
wrote:
> John Hatpin (RemoveThisjfhop...@gmailAndThisToo.com) wrote:
> > Opus the Penguin wrote:
>
>
> >> > Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
>
> >> >> Opus the Penguin wrote:
> >> >> >> Opus the Penguin wrote:
> >> >> >>> Raven-Poe (ra...@westnet.poe.com) wrote:
I'm not sure what "require" means here. I don't recall ever hearing
the resurrection spoken of from the pulpit as anything other than a
historical event. It may be that seminarians are taught to avoid
shocking the church ladies in the pews, but the sense I get is that
the theology you describe is more of a mid-20th century thing, with
mainstream thought having backed off from it even inasmuch as it ever
represented mainstreatm thought.
I don't know what sort of doctrinal affirmations are required of
seminarians. I suspect that putting this in terms of what is required
is true, in that I doubt that the question arises.
I am only in a position to speak of the ELCA brand of Lutheranism. I
as a matter of policy have dark suspicions about Episcopalians. But I
find that conservative Christians often imagine Bishop Spong as being
representative of current Episcopalianism. So far as I can tell he in
reality is outre and largely irrelevant.
Richard R. Hershberger
>
> > And why is
> > original sin not recognised in Judaism, but is in Christianity?
> > Is it not an Old Testament issue, since the story of the Fall is
> > there?
>
> > (No, I'm not laying a trap. This is purely genuine curiosity.)
>
> I'm curious too. I did a little reading way back when on the various
> streams of thought in Judaism regarding this subject. But I don't
> recall well enough to summarize.
>
> --
> Opus the Penguin
> The best darn penguin in all of Usenet- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jon M
>So last time I'm in San Francisco, this panhandler dances up with this
>sign that says "Need money for pot and beer", and I told him "That's a
>HORRIBLE sign. That's what _I_ need it for!". I point this out because
>I'm curious: ...what does God need it for?
>
>What sort of beer do you suppose God drinks? Would it be a really nice
>ale, like the Dogfish Head 120-minute, or would it be one of those
>thick, fruity belgian ales made by monks? Do you suppose He approves of
>the almost pepperminty aftertaste of Delerium Tremens? Or is He more of
>a Corsendonk guy, do you suppose? Or do you suppose He appreciates all
>beers, great and small?
>
>Next time I'm at the Brickskellar, I'm gonna ask what the staff thinks.
>So long as they don't bring me that foul vanilla lambic again,
>especially if I'm eating. Proof that the bible is not infallible: the
>loin does not go down with the lambic.
::snork::
--
Jon M
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Oh, it's all through the Old Testament, as well as the new. However, the
term "original sin" does not occur anywhere in the Bible, either Old or
New Testament. The fact that all mankind has something wrong with him,
which causes him to have a natural tendency to do wrong instead of
right, some defect which causes him to sin, is an inborn condition. Many
of the earliest references are allegorical, although the fundamentalists
seem to take them literally, but they were attempts by the early
Israelites to try to explain this tendency. Thus the sin of Adam and
Eve, the sin which caused God to bring forth the Flood, the sin behind
the construction of the Tower of Babel, the story of Job, are all
attempts to make concrete an abstract concept. As Robert Dentan (1961, A
First Reader in Biblical Theology) puts it, the attempt was to
illustrate three basic ideas: "(1) that sin is a universal fact of human
nature. (2) that God hates sin with all His Being, and (3) that He
nevertheless loves our sinful race and seeks to bless it" [Genesis 8:13
thru 9:1]
Charles
Ted The Cat
wrote:
>
> Last year would have been dire were it not that (and there is no
> really good way to put this) the right person died, leaving a $150K
> bequest to the church. That got us through the year.
So, does any other wealthy parishioner come to mind who you would like
to see move closer to God?
landotter
> The fact that all mankind has something wrong with him,
> which causes him to have a natural tendency to do wrong instead of
> right, some defect which causes him to sin, is an inborn condition.
You state this with no evidence. You make an outrageously negative
claim about human beings and base your life on it with no evidence.
That's pretty pathetic.
bill van
<2b7e4060-333c-46ae...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
landotter <land...@gmail.com> wrote:
See, that's why people on all sides of the political spectrum consider
you to be a jerk. You attack someone who by all accounts is a kind and
gentle person who has lived an exemplary life, because you don't like
his religious views (which you may well be misreading, but that's beside
the point). Who's the bigot in this picture, do you think?
bill
Veronique
I saw a lovely slogan on a church sign this afternoon, which I am
adopting as this week's motto:
"You can't get ahead by evening the score"
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> What sort of beer do you suppose God drinks?
K_S_ONeill
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:46:57 -0800 (PST), K_S_ONeill
>
>
>
> <uane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 14, 1:28 pm, Lisa Ann <lisa-...@stalnakershampine.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:07:10 +0000, John Hatpin
>
> >> <RemoveThisjfhop...@gmailAndThisToo.com> wrote:
> >> >DT wrote:
>
> >> >> Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit irritated, given
> >> >> the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I guess the platter has been
> >> >> a bit empty lately:
>
> >> >> "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>
> >> >your heart, your love, your kindness - the Lord has no need of money,
> >> >indeed demonstrated through his son Jesus Christ how much he despises
> >> >wealth. No church would sully the name of the Lord by asking for
> >> >*money* in His name - it would be sacrilege.
>
> >> I take it prosperity gospel hasn't hit the UK yet?
>
> >It never will. As far as I can tell the only place crazy US religion
> >exports at all well to is Australia, and even that's annecdotal.
>
> Nope, Pentacostalism is spreading like wildfire, and that's
> somewhat crazy.
Well, it is in Africa, anyway. I was thinking of places with running
water and per capita incomes of more than a dollar. If I lived in
Africa I might choose crazy too.
--
Kevin
John Hatpin
> John Hatpin wrote:
> >
> > Is this connected to the concept of original sin? My guess is that it
> > is, in that all humans are seen to have inherited A&E's sinfulness.
> >
> > While on A&E and OS, are there any significant Christian churches in
> > the USA that do not believe in original sin? And why is original sin
> > not recognised in Judaism, but is in Christianity? Is it not an Old
> > Testament issue, since the story of the Fall is there?
> >
> > (No, I'm not laying a trap. This is purely genuine curiosity.)
>
> Oh, it's all through the Old Testament, as well as the new. However, the
> term "original sin" does not occur anywhere in the Bible, either Old or
> New Testament. The fact that all mankind has something wrong with him,
> which causes him to have a natural tendency to do wrong instead of
> right, some defect which causes him to sin, is an inborn condition. Many
> of the earliest references are allegorical, although the fundamentalists
> seem to take them literally, but they were attempts by the early
> Israelites to try to explain this tendency. Thus the sin of Adam and
> Eve, the sin which caused God to bring forth the Flood, the sin behind
> the construction of the Tower of Babel, the story of Job, are all
> attempts to make concrete an abstract concept. As Robert Dentan (1961, A
> First Reader in Biblical Theology) puts it, the attempt was to
> illustrate three basic ideas: "(1) that sin is a universal fact of human
> nature. (2) that God hates sin with all His Being, and (3) that He
> nevertheless loves our sinful race and seeks to bless it" [Genesis 8:13
> thru 9:1]
Thanks to all - I've nothing of consequence to add.
You're doubtless aware of my own opinions on this, but they're
irrelevant here, other than it all being fascinating anyway.
S. Checker
> On Nov 14, 1:28?pm, Lisa Ann <lisa-...@stalnakershampine.com> wrote:
>
>> I take it prosperity gospel hasn't hit the UK yet?
>
> It never will. As far as I can tell the only place crazy US religion
> exports at all well to is Australia, and even that's annecdotal.
According to Reuters, American Creation Science is being adopted by
Muslim fundamentalists in Turkey to battle secularism in that country.
"Creationism is so widely accepted here that Turkey placed last in a
recent survey of public acceptance of evolution in 34 countries -- just
behind the United States."
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSL0926554120061122
I hope USAnian fundies are working to catch up to their Islamic
brethren.
Ooh, good sigmonster. Have a cookie.
--
Hain't we got all the fools in town on our side? And hain't that a big
enough majority in any town?
-- Mark Twain, "Huckleberry Finn"
Richard R. Hershberger
It doesn't actually have to be a member of the church. Have you
updated your will lately?
Three jobs back I read a lot of wills. One of my favorites was the
woman in a medium sized town who divided her estate evenly between
every church and synogogue in town: covering all the bases.
Richard R. Hershberger
landotter
> In article
> <2b7e4060-333c-46ae-bd8b-2ac5c33b9...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
LOL--it's hilarious how religious insanity always gets a pass. Charles
is indeed fairly nice online. However--he openly shares crazy beliefs
on a newsgroup which used to be based somewhat on debunking bullshit.
But apparently, sharing and spreading quite nasty beliefs about the
origin of humanity and our condition with no evidence is OK if it's a
popular delusion, not a minority delusion.
Yes--I'm a bigot against delusion. We cannot chose whether we are
pigmented a certain way, where we are born, or the constellation of
our freckles. However--we do have control over our abuse of reason. To
pick and choose to believe in bizarre ancient texts often contradicted
by modern knowledge is a failure of the intellect. When you allow such
a fundamental abuse of the mind to be accepted--then the sky's the
limit.
Moderate religious people might not be sewing labia together and
putting bombs in their pants--but they enable the fundamentalists by
creating a stepping stone to just take the irrationality one step
further.
Veronique
> huey.calli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What sort of beer do you suppose God drinks?
>
> http://www.electrasoft.com/music/polkahum/ihjon.htm
(Heh. I saw that link on the horizon. Got it on at least two CDs as
well.)
John Hatpin
> LOL--it's hilarious how religious insanity always gets a pass.
>Charles is indeed fairly nice online. However--he openly shares crazy beliefs
> on a newsgroup which used to be based somewhat on debunking bullshit.
This is the reason I didn't post my opinions - I actually agree with
you on both counts, and will add that Opus is one helluva dude too.
I'd rather not offend either Charles or Opus (or any other posters
that I like and respect), and my opinion in this counts as digital
flyshit anyway, so I'm not going to expand on it.
Mark Steese
2ac5c3...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
Demanding evidence for the claim that people have a natural tendency to do
wrong is like demanding evidence for the claim that daylight comes from the
sun shining on the earth. It is rather amusing that a guy who feels the
need to point out, over and over again, how much harm Christians have
caused, and then uses Stalin and Pol Pot to show that atheists can be evil
too, should find the claim that people naturally tend to be bad instead of
good "outrageously negative." But I suppose that my daft political views
have blinded me to the wonderland of peace and harmony that prevails over
all the earth, eh?
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the
banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
>
> Oh, it's all through the Old Testament, as well as the new. However, the
> term "original sin" does not occur anywhere in the Bible, either Old or
> New Testament. The fact that all mankind has something wrong with him,
> which causes him to have a natural tendency to do wrong instead of
> right, some defect which causes him to sin, is an inborn condition. Many
> of the earliest references are allegorical, although the fundamentalists
> seem to take them literally, but they were attempts by the early
> Israelites to try to explain this tendency. Thus the sin of Adam and
> Eve, the sin which caused God to bring forth the Flood, the sin behind
> the construction of the Tower of Babel, the story of Job, are all
> attempts to make concrete an abstract concept. As Robert Dentan (1961, A
> First Reader in Biblical Theology) puts it, the attempt was to
> illustrate three basic ideas: "(1) that sin is a universal fact of human
> nature. (2) that God hates sin with all His Being, and (3) that He
> nevertheless loves our sinful race and seeks to bless it" [Genesis 8:13
> thru 9:1]
I think there is a fourth basic idea. That while sin is a universal
fact of human nature, it is not the fault of the Creator of that human
nature. I've always thought that this was the essence of "original
sin", to explain how human nature got corrupted while leaving God's
hands unsullied.
Xho
Opus the Penguin
No, I don't think that's something that the doctrine of original sin
addresses. You get into that more with debates about free will and
omnipotence and the whole Problem of Evil. You can have a whole range
of views on those subjects and still hold to the doctrine of original
sin.
Greg Goss
>Hieronymus Agricola <use...@bauerstar.com> wrote:
>> Mary wrote:
>> > Jim Beaver wrote:
>> >> "Ted The Cat" <tedth...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" <cdimm...@snet.net> wrote:
>> >>>> I just spent $800 of the church's money today on emergency brick
>> >>>> re-pointing.
>> >>> What is brick re-pointing?
>> >> Changing the direction in which you aim them.
>> > Charles' church is funding people who throw bricks?
>> Only those people without sin.
>
>People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass?
(one of my favourite lines from the Flintstones)
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>Finally, investments generally tanked last year.
Did they retrench into something "safer"? My brother is way ahead of
his crash point, and the two years together count in his charts as a
pair of "good years" so long as you ignore the stalactite in the
middle. I'm within shouting distance of even, and the only other guy
I trade investment talk with managed to survive 08 with less than a 4%
dip.
(I retrenched a fair amount. If I'd just left stuff where they were,
I'd be ahead of the July 08 peak, but I didn't like the "look" of the
market in July of this year and pulled about a third of my more liquid
investments into cash.)
Bill Turlock
Where's gold going, Greg?
Greg Goss
>Raven-Poe (ra...@westnet.poe.com) wrote:
>
>> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>>
>>> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
>>> > irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I
>>> > guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>> >
>>> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>
>>> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of different
>>> ways. I think there's truth to it.
>>
>> Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to sit in
>> judgement of God, no?
>
>
>Can't say I follow your reasoning there, no.
To know what God deserves, we would have to decide what he deserves.
That's practically the definition of sitting in judgement, unless
we're standing at the time.
Opus the Penguin
>
> Where's gold going, Greg?
>
I recommend you go back to 2005 and buy some.
Hieronymus Agricola
(in article <7mk7utF...@mid.individual.net>):
People who live in glass houses shouldn't.
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Raven-Poe (ra...@westnet.poe.com) wrote:
>>
>>> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> DT (dthomp...@SPAMwowway.com) wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Saw an interesting church sign today that sounds a bit
>>>> > irritated, given the unemployment, uncertain times and all. I
>>>> > guess the platter has been a bit empty lately:
>>>> >
>>>> > "Give God what he deserves, not what is left"
>>>
>>>> It's a common sentiment. I've seen it expressed lots of
>>>> different ways. I think there's truth to it.
>>>
>>> Really? To know what big-g God deserves, we would have to sit
>>> in judgement of God, no?
>>
>>
>>Can't say I follow your reasoning there, no.
>
> To know what God deserves, we would have to decide what he
> deserves.
Yes, I see Raven making that same inference. I'm not seeing the logic
of it. I think we know innately what God deserves. He has put that
knowledge in us. So we don't really "decide" what God deserves any
more than we "decide" that two plus two equals four, or that a
statement cannot be both true and false at the same time in the same
way.
I think "recognize" or "acknowledge" is a better verb in these cases.
That doesn't involve sitting in judgment. It involves a confession of
the self-evident.
Greg Goss
I don't have a strong feel for it. I spent five years predicting four
digit gold and three digit oil, then felt lost once they got there.
There's a vague feeling that gold and the DOW might meet at 3500, but
that would require some kind of financial disaster.
A lot of the gold fans are predicting 1300 within two years, but
that's no longer all that dramatic a prediction. I'm still strongly
invested in gold mines (about 15% of my retirement fund), but don't
have a strong plan on when to get out.
Greg Goss
>Bill Turlock ("Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid) wrote:
>>
>> Where's gold going, Greg?
>>
>
>I recommend you go back to 2005 and buy some.
Further back than 05. I withdrew a lot of my investments from the
market in the summer of 03 (to finance an overlap of buying the new
home before selling the old home), and missed out on a major jump in
the market. I first started following the market on the day after the
"Axis of Evil" speech, and that wasn't even the bottom. You probably
want to buy in 02.
Opus the Penguin
Be reasonable. How's he going to get back to 2002?
N Jill Marsh
>"Richard R. Hershberger" <rrh...@acme.com> wrote:
>
>>Finally, investments generally tanked last year.
>
>Did they retrench into something "safer"? My brother is way ahead of
>his crash point, and the two years together count in his charts as a
>pair of "good years" so long as you ignore the stalactite in the
>middle. I'm within shouting distance of even, and the only other guy
>I trade investment talk with managed to survive 08 with less than a 4%
>dip.
My response to the stalactite was, for about eight months, to just
shred every statement without reading it. I'm currently 8% up.
nj"passive aggression"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.