Research costs saved by phone call No. 74?
John Dean
respond?
1 Do you think children with behaviour problems are more likely to commit
crimes as adults than those without?
2 Do you think examination of criminals' childhood behaviour will often show
that they had behavioural problems then?
Check your perception against reality
http://www.scmh.org.uk/news/2009_preventing_conduct_disorder.aspx
--
John Dean
Oxford
N Jill Marsh
<john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>So if you got the following questions in a phone survey, how would you
>respond?
>
>1 Do you think children with behaviour problems are more likely to commit
>crimes as adults than those without?
I think children with conduct disorder have a much higher chance of
running afoul of the law than their peers, from the time they are old
enough to be charged (or possibly before) until death.
>2 Do you think examination of criminals' childhood behaviour will often show
>that they had behavioural problems then?
I think many convicted criminals show evidence of or were diagnosed
with oppositional-defiant/conduct/antisocial personality disorder.
>Check your perception against reality
>
>http://www.scmh.org.uk/news/2009_preventing_conduct_disorder.aspx
I don't know how much of that website is reality, in that as far as I
understand, the effectiveness of intervention in conduct disorder is
not as cut and dried as it states. I also suspect the cost saving
numbers are more or less made of fairy dust.
However, the seriousness of untreated/uncontrolled conduct disorder is
widely accepted among psychologists, although that has not resulted in
wide and deep changes in practice when it comes down to individual
kids. Most interventions (at the familial and social levels) still
focus on punitive measures which without other treatment just
disengage the kid further.
nj"woe is we"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
David J. Martin
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:07:55 -0000, "John Dean"
> <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>
>> So if you got the following questions in a phone survey, how would you
>> respond?
>>
>> 1 Do you think children with behaviour problems are more likely to commit
>> crimes as adults than those without?
>
> I think children with conduct disorder have a much higher chance of
> running afoul of the law than their peers, from the time they are old
> enough to be charged (or possibly before) until death.
>
>> 2 Do you think examination of criminals' childhood behaviour will often show
>> that they had behavioural problems then?
>
> I think many convicted criminals show evidence of or were diagnosed
> with oppositional-defiant/conduct/antisocial personality disorder.
As you know, the problem with retrospective studies is they often find
what they are looking for. The bugaboo is in "show evidence". You take
a specific group and look into their histories and surprise, surprise!
There's that evidence you were looking for.
The implication of the webpage is that some of what they are talking
about comes from longitudinal studies, but I'm not sure if that's the
case. Not that I think what they say is unlikely. It makes sense that
kids with problems will turn into adults with problems.
>
>> Check your perception against reality
>>
>> http://www.scmh.org.uk/news/2009_preventing_conduct_disorder.aspx
>
> I don't know how much of that website is reality, in that as far as I
> understand, the effectiveness of intervention in conduct disorder is
> not as cut and dried as it states. I also suspect the cost saving
> numbers are more or less made of fairy dust.
>
> However, the seriousness of untreated/uncontrolled conduct disorder is
> widely accepted among psychologists, although that has not resulted in
> wide and deep changes in practice when it comes down to individual
> kids. Most interventions (at the familial and social levels) still
> focus on punitive measures which without other treatment just
> disengage the kid further.
Yeah. Our local juvenile prosecutors try to hit kids with the top level
of punishment, even on first offenses. One of our local Justices of the
Peace has a philosophy that the best way to deal with truancy is to kick
the kids out of school, even when school personnel are suggesting
probation. Since the high school just ended their full-time program for
kids with psychological and behavioral problems, he might be right.
David
art...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> As you know, the problem with retrospective studies is they often find
> what they are looking for. The bugaboo is in "show evidence". You take
> a specific group and look into their histories and surprise, surprise!
> There's that evidence you were looking for.
I once did a retrospective study on the music of U2, but I still
haven't found what I'm looking for.
N Jill Marsh
<djmarti...@tamu.edu> wrote:
>N Jill Marsh wrote:
>> I think many convicted criminals show evidence of or were diagnosed
>> with oppositional-defiant/conduct/antisocial personality disorder.
>
>As you know, the problem with retrospective studies is they often find
>what they are looking for. The bugaboo is in "show evidence". You take
>a specific group and look into their histories and surprise, surprise!
>There's that evidence you were looking for.
Yes, it's something that definitely has to be approached carefully.
It's certainly possible to do good research on that question, but it
demands complete access to things like school, medical and penal
records. I wouldn't trust personal reporting (from the subject or
those who knew him) worth spit.
>The implication of the webpage is that some of what they are talking
>about comes from longitudinal studies, but I'm not sure if that's the
>case. Not that I think what they say is unlikely. It makes sense that
>kids with problems will turn into adults with problems.
I doubt there have been any/many well designed and lengthy studies
done on this, though to be fair, one wouldn't have to follow people
even ten years, probably five would be a pretty reasonable interval if
one went from the time of diagnosis of conduct disorder (which must
happen before 18 years of age) to the time they entered (or not) the
adult penal system.
>> However, the seriousness of untreated/uncontrolled conduct disorder is
>> widely accepted among psychologists, although that has not resulted in
>> wide and deep changes in practice when it comes down to individual
>> kids. Most interventions (at the familial and social levels) still
>> focus on punitive measures which without other treatment just
>> disengage the kid further.
>
>Yeah. Our local juvenile prosecutors try to hit kids with the top level
>of punishment, even on first offenses. One of our local Justices of the
>Peace has a philosophy that the best way to deal with truancy is to kick
>the kids out of school, even when school personnel are suggesting
>probation. Since the high school just ended their full-time program for
>kids with psychological and behavioral problems, he might be right.
Yes, I ran into this regularly in a former job, it's depressing how
much it happens. I know a young person who had three assault
convictions before they were sixteen. Three times the court has put
them on probation without any constructive requirements (psychological
evaluation, anger management therapy, requirement to remain registered
in schooling, etc) and the school expells them for truancy primarily
related to an anxiety/mood disorder.
Once they are eighteen, I have no doubt that I will be paying a good
part of their room and board through our penal system for portions of
their life.
nj"and diagnosed"m
Greg Johnson
<art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 10:08?am, "David J. Martin" <djmartin_nos...@tamu.edu>
>wrote:
>
>> As you know, the problem with retrospective studies is they often find
>> what they are looking for. ?The bugaboo is in "show evidence". ?You take
>> a specific group and look into their histories and surprise, surprise!
>> There's that evidence you were looking for.
>
>I once did a retrospective study on the music of U2, but I still
>haven't found what I'm looking for.