It would be perfect if...
Joe Shimkus
Yeah, it's spelled differently. Anyhow...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/16/harkin.cheney.ap/index.html
> Vice President Dick Cheney's questioning of John Kerry's war record
> and his ability to protect America is "cowardly," Sen. Tom Harkin
> said Monday.
>
> "It just outrages me that someone who got five deferments during
> Vietnam and said he had 'other priorities' at that time would say
> that," said the Iowa Democrat, a former Navy fighter pilot.
> Harkin said that it angered him to hear tough talk from Cheney.
>
> "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> Harkin.
>
> "He'll be tough, but he'll be tough with someone else's kid's blood,"
> said Harkin.
--
PGP Key (DH/DSS): http://www.shimkus.com/public_key.asc
PGP Fingerprint: 89B4 52DA CF10 EE03 02AD 9134 21C6 2A68 CE52 EE1A
Windows has always aspired to be Mac-like without Microsoft ever really
understanding what that even means. - Robert Cringely
Big David
> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> > Harkin.
I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
posturing and suggest you do the same.
--
Big David
"If people were required to have lie-detector tests before fucking, ZPG would
be a very happy group"
Boron, AFCA, September 1, 2002
Joe Shimkus
"Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> > > Harkin.
>
> I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
> him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> posturing and suggest you do the same.
Oh, political posturing is almost certainly involved. However, I don't
recall Clinton deriding someone's war record.
From the article:
> He [Harkin] accused President Bush and his vice president of
> "resorting to dirty attacks on John Kerry's war record."
So, while Clinton could perhaps be called a coward, the situation is not
the same and Harkin, being a Vietnam vet, might just be a tad touchy on
folks who went out of their way to not serve questioning the service of
someone who did.
> --
> Big David
> "If people were required to have lie-detector tests before fucking, ZPG would
> be a very happy group"
> Boron, AFCA, September 1, 2002
Fix your .sig delimiter. "-- "
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> > > Harkin.
> I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
> him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> posturing and suggest you do the same.
Besides, Amercia really needs to wage a "more senstive war".
How _dare_ someone try to ridicule our fine tradition of sensitive
warriors!
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Boron Elgar
<david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
>> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
>> > Harkin.
>
>I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
>him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
>posturing and suggest you do the same.
Cheney is a dick, David, and I am not talking about his name. He is
a hideous person. Don't defend him and don't try to deflect the
argument back to Clinton who has nothing to do with this. How can you
possibly come to Cheney's defense?
Besides, the situation is not the same. Clinton did not go around
criticizing someone else's military record or capabilities in any way
similar to what Cheney is doing.
Boron
M C Hamster
news:joe-188203.0...@individual.net...
> In article <gvWdnaVZO9A...@comcast.com>,
> "Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> > > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil,"
said
> > > > Harkin.
> >
> > I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to
tell
> > him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> > posturing and suggest you do the same.
>
> Oh, political posturing is almost certainly involved. However, I don't
> recall Clinton deriding someone's war record.
>
> From the article:
>
> > He [Harkin] accused President Bush and his vice president of
> > "resorting to dirty attacks on John Kerry's war record."
>
> So, while Clinton could perhaps be called a coward, the situation is not
> the same and Harkin, being a Vietnam vet, might just be a tad touchy on
> folks who went out of their way to not serve questioning the service of
> someone who did.
And of course Cheney's smug, snide, sarcastic, mocking attack is for Kerry's
use of the word "sensitive" in describing his approach to fighting the war
on terror. It was fantastic that the next day, footage showed up of Bush
saying the same thing, that we had to be sensitive in our approach to
fighting the war on terror.
It's Cheney's intolerable smugness that is at issue, a smugness he should
not have given that he was a coward re: the Vietnam war. The comparison to
Clinton is irrelevant.
Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
starting to do so, for me.
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
hymie!
"Big David" <david...@yahoo.com>, who said:
>> > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
>> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
>> > Harkin.
>
>I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
>him he's also coward.
I don't recall Clinton questioning Bob Dole's war record.
hymie! http://www.smart.net/~hymowitz hy...@lactose.smart.net
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Boron Elgar
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
>Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
>starting to do so, for me.
>
Many similarities of personality, but Cheney is much smarter.
Boron
M C Hamster
news:vAIUc.81$Fg2....@newshog.newsread.com...
> Big David <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> > > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil,"
said
> > > > Harkin.
>
> > I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to
tell
> > him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> > posturing and suggest you do the same.
>
> Besides, Amercia really needs to wage a "more senstive war".
>
> How _dare_ someone try to ridicule our fine tradition of sensitive
> warriors!
A tradition President Bush himself has perpetuated, as perhaps you have
recently seen. (Though I wouldn't call him a sensitive warrior, since he
never encountered war in his personal life.) He himself is shown on tape
talking about our need to be "sensitive" (his word) in our war on terror.
But it's just fine if Bush uses it, right? You shameless apologist...
Cheney? He's just a total dickhead.
Jeff Lanam
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cheney is a dick,
...
>Boron
It also pissed me off when he made fun of Kerry in a "bunny suit" when
he visted NASA. It's *required* of visitors to the area he was in.
GHW Bush wore one when he was VP and visited NASA. On the other hand,
Shrub never visited Johnson Space Center in all the time he was
Governor of Texas.
Bush I in a bunny suit
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=968
GWB never went to NASA
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/politics/5103115.htm
Boron Elgar
How about Cheney as a dick in a pink Energizer Bunny suit?
Boron
kay w
JeffL:
>It also pissed me off when he made fun of Kerry in a "bunny suit" when
>he visted NASA.
*Everyone* made fun of Kerry in the bunny suit, because he looked ridiculous,
regardless of how necessary the suit was.
--
In midevil times most of the people were alliterate. The greatest writer of the
time was Chaucer, who wrote poems and verse and also wrote literature.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> Previously,
> JeffL:
> >It also pissed me off when he made fun of Kerry in a "bunny suit" when
> >he visted NASA.
> *Everyone* made fun of Kerry in the bunny suit, because he looked ridiculous,
> regardless of how necessary the suit was.
Indeed, it's rediculous to go to NASA for publicity shots and the put on
ridiculous cloths and then whine when the public starts laughing that the
photos were somehow "leaked" (obviously by the vast right wing
conspiracy).
M C Hamster
news:rdOUc.111$Pd2....@monger.newsread.com...
> kay w <scu...@aol.comatose> wrote:
> > Previously,
>
> > JeffL:
> > >It also pissed me off when he made fun of Kerry in a "bunny suit" when
> > >he visted NASA.
>
> > *Everyone* made fun of Kerry in the bunny suit, because he looked
ridiculous,
> > regardless of how necessary the suit was.
>
> Indeed, it's rediculous to go to NASA for publicity shots and the put on
> ridiculous cloths and then whine when the public starts laughing that the
> photos were somehow "leaked" (obviously by the vast right wing
> conspiracy).
See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are total
assholes.
kay w
MC:
>See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
>We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are total
>assholes.
Aw, and I've always liked you....
But how Kerry's looking goofy in a bunny suit (I mean, the "owners" of the
thing call it a "bunny suit;" they don't call it the "debonair Beau Brummel"
suit, and that's for a reason) is somehow my fault is beyond me. Am I also
responsible for Nixon's 5 o'clock shadow on tv? Dukakis's bozo-in-a-tank
photo?
I don't know why you're so upset about this Kerry bunny suit photo. You would
look ridiculous in a bunny suit. I would look ridiculous in a bunny suit.
RavenPoe would look ridiciulous in a bunny suit. George Clooney would look,
well, bad example... Anyway, 99% of the people in the world would look stupid
in that suit; why you take special umbrage at the fact that Kerry, like the
rest of us 99%, looks stupid in the suit, I just couldn't say.
The rest of *we* 99%?
Joe Shimkus
"M C Hamster" <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
> See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
> We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are total
> assholes.
That's ok. When Kerry's president, we can get all those people who
laughed at the pictures for being unpatriotic and put 'em in Gitmo.
Joe Shimkus
scu...@aol.comatose (kay w) wrote:
> I don't know why you're so upset about this Kerry bunny suit photo. You
> would
> look ridiculous in a bunny suit. I would look ridiculous in a bunny suit.
> RavenPoe would look ridiciulous in a bunny suit. George Clooney would look,
> well, bad example... Anyway, 99% of the people in the world would look
> stupid
> in that suit; why you take special umbrage at the fact that Kerry, like the
> rest of us 99%, looks stupid in the suit, I just couldn't say.
Probably 'cause the right-wing blowhards (O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter,
etc.) would call it unpatriotic and/or treasonous to make fun of the
current President in a bunny suit. It's not so much the making fun of,
it's the (expected) hypocritical lack of acceptance of reciprocity.
Boron Elgar
>Previously,
>
>MC:
>>See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
>>We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are total
>>assholes.
>
>
>Aw, and I've always liked you....
>
>
>But how Kerry's looking goofy in a bunny suit (I mean, the "owners" of the
>thing call it a "bunny suit;" they don't call it the "debonair Beau Brummel"
>suit, and that's for a reason) is somehow my fault is beyond me. Am I also
>responsible for Nixon's 5 o'clock shadow on tv? Dukakis's bozo-in-a-tank
>photo?
>
>I don't know why you're so upset about this Kerry bunny suit photo. You would
>look ridiculous in a bunny suit. I would look ridiculous in a bunny suit.
>RavenPoe would look ridiciulous in a bunny suit. George Clooney would look,
>well, bad example... Anyway, 99% of the people in the world would look stupid
>in that suit; why you take special umbrage at the fact that Kerry, like the
>rest of us 99%, looks stupid in the suit, I just couldn't say.
>
>The rest of *we* 99%?
Object of a preposition. Us.
Boron
M C Hamster
news:20040818171804...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> Previously,
>
> MC:
> >See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
> >We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are
total
> >assholes.
>
> Aw, and I've always liked you....
>
Some of my best friends are total assholes, if that's any solace.
> But how Kerry's looking goofy in a bunny suit (I mean, the "owners" of the
> thing call it a "bunny suit;" they don't call it the "debonair Beau
Brummel"
> suit, and that's for a reason) is somehow my fault is beyond me. Am I
also
> responsible for Nixon's 5 o'clock shadow on tv? Dukakis's bozo-in-a-tank
> photo?
>
> I don't know why you're so upset about this Kerry bunny suit photo. You
would
> look ridiculous in a bunny suit. I would look ridiculous in a bunny suit.
> RavenPoe would look ridiciulous in a bunny suit. George Clooney would
look,
> well, bad example... Anyway, 99% of the people in the world would look
stupid
> in that suit; why you take special umbrage at the fact that Kerry, like
the
> rest of us 99%, looks stupid in the suit, I just couldn't say.
>
Well, it was mostly raven's completely ignorant statement that Kerry did
this as a publicity shot, and then is bothered that people are laughing at
the pix. I never can tell if John is being deliberately obtuse, but it was
widely reported that Kerry specifically did *not* want them used as a
publicity shot, and deliberately banned all media from the event.
He went to visit NASA, at an invitation from John Glenn. He was required to
put on the goofy suit, like Bush I did, like everyone is required to do.
Someone took a private picture. It then was leaked to the Republicans.
Matt Drudge put it on his web site, in order to embarrass Kerry. Suddenly
everyone (i.e., that left-wing media we always hear about) was making
comparisons to Dukakis riding around in the tank. That *was* a PR shot (and
obviously very ill-conceived); this was NOT. GOT THAT, OH IGNORANT BLACK
BIRD?
kay, your biggest mistake is the dubious company you keep.
> The rest of *we* 99%?
>
Us is it. (*We* is it?)
kay w
MC:
>kay, your biggest mistake is the dubious company you keep.
Would that it were, honeypie. Would that it were.
Sean Houtman
>Us is it. (*We* is it?)
They is us.
Sean
--
Visit my photolog page; http://members.aol.com/grommit383/myhomepage
Last updated 03-16-04 with 42 pictures of Chaco Canyon.
Address mungled. To email, please spite my face.
Joe Shimkus
seanh...@aol.comnose (Sean Houtman) wrote:
> From: "M C Hamster" davo...@speakeasy.hairnet
>
> >Us is it. (*We* is it?)
>
> They is us.
>
All your base belong to they.
Rick B.
AF7FBD.201...@individual.net:
> In article <20040818195849...@mb-m07.aol.com>,
> seanh...@aol.comnose (Sean Houtman) wrote:
>
>> From: "M C Hamster" davo...@speakeasy.hairnet
>>
>> >Us is it. (*We* is it?)
>>
>> They is us.
>>
>
> All your base belong to they.
>
We have met the enemy, and us is they.
--
"Everyone is going to go to Pogo school sooner or later."
--Eugene Walt Kelly
I am not in Antarctica
Boron Elgar
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
>kay, your biggest mistake is the dubious company you keep.
>
Can I get a T-shirt with DUBIOUS on it, then?
Boron
Joseph Michael Bay
>Big David <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
>> > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
>> > > Harkin.
>> I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
>> him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
>> posturing and suggest you do the same.
>Besides, Amercia really needs to wage a "more senstive war".
>How _dare_ someone try to ridicule our fine tradition of sensitive
>warriors!
Yeah, thank God your guy doesn't go saying stuff like that.
--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ yes right i am the king of limousines
Joe Shimkus
Boron Elgar <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pronounced "dubya-ous?"
Jerry Bauer
(in article <rsu6i0h9pjlbebd33...@4ax.com>):
Cheney seems more cunning, but he could never have come up with
"nattering nabobs of negativity".
Jerry Bauer
(in article <20040818190911...@mb-m28.aol.com>):
> Would that it were.
Be that as it may.
SoCalMike
doo bee doo bee doo....
SoCalMike
hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
give out.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> ra...@westnet.poe.com writes:
> >Big David <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> >> > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> >> > > Harkin.
> >> I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
> >> him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> >> posturing and suggest you do the same.
> >Besides, Amercia really needs to wage a "more senstive war".
> >How _dare_ someone try to ridicule our fine tradition of sensitive
> >warriors!
> Yeah, thank God your guy doesn't go saying stuff like that.
Actually, I think that the R's thank god that when he makes a bug gaffe,
he doesn't mean it. There's a difference between a Bushism and position
out of left feild.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> Previously,
> MC:
> >See, and that's the difference between the rest of us, and kay and raven.
> >We're reasonable, thoughtful, and considered. And the two of you are total
> >assholes.
> Aw, and I've always liked you....
I suspect that the old hamster was trying to get at some sort of humor
there.
> But how Kerry's looking goofy in a bunny suit (I mean, the "owners" of the
> thing call it a "bunny suit;" they don't call it the "debonair Beau Brummel"
> suit, and that's for a reason) is somehow my fault is beyond me. Am I also
> responsible for Nixon's 5 o'clock shadow on tv? Dukakis's bozo-in-a-tank
> photo?
> I don't know why you're so upset about this Kerry bunny suit photo. You would
> look ridiculous in a bunny suit. I would look ridiculous in a bunny suit.
> RavenPoe would look ridiciulous in a bunny suit. George Clooney would look,
> well, bad example...
No, he'd look rediculous. He does rediculous pretty well, and the
directors would go for the quick visula gag and then find a way to get him
out of the things ASAP (much to the delight of certain members of the
audience, no doubt).
> Anyway, 99% of the people in the world would look stupid
> in that suit; why you take special umbrage at the fact that Kerry, like the
> rest of us 99%, looks stupid in the suit, I just couldn't say.
And looking stupid in the suit isn't the issue: the issue is that he's
running for public office: he's going to be dogged by ohtographers almost
all the time, let alone the times he goes out _intentionally_ to get his
picture taken. He screwed up. Plain and simple, he should have simply
said, 'Oh, I don't have the time to go through the clean room procedures,
I'll just take the parts of the tour that don't involve that. Could have
gotten his picture in front of the orbiter done his gig and played up to
his fantasy of being the next JFK. But he blew it. He get's the justly
deserved politcal heckling for that. Remeber the Dean Scream? Same
thing. He blew it, and he took the hit. This is what life in a democracy
is about: swaying the opinons of the public. Trying to do so in a bunny
suit and then whining about the derision isn't really going to make the
grade.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> Well, it was mostly raven's completely ignorant statement that Kerry did
> this as a publicity shot, and then is bothered that people are laughing at
> the pix. I never can tell if John is being deliberately obtuse, but it was
> widely reported that Kerry specifically did *not* want them used as a
> publicity shot, and deliberately banned all media from the event.
Ummm, no. You're completely wrong.
> He went to visit NASA, at an invitation from John Glenn.
During the election season. I'll accept that some things, like buying a
cup of coffee or taking out he trash might not have a politcal motive,
(_might_) but a visit to NASA? Come on.
> He was required to put on the goofy suit, like Bush I did, like everyone
> is required to do.
The NASA Gestapo was doubtless there with guns? No, he chose to put on
the goofey suit. He could (and should have) turned down the offer of
stumbling about in the orbiter in the stupid looking suit, but he didn't
have the forsight, nor did his handlers.
> Someone took a private picture.
"Someone" equals the official NASA phtogorapher who routinely snap
pictures of visiting dignitaries.
> It then was leaked to the Republicans.
Umm, you mean it was published by NASA, (after the Kerry campaign asked
them to expedite the processing of the photos so that reporters could get
thier hands on them).
> Matt Drudge put it on his web site, in order to embarrass Kerry. Suddenly
> everyone (i.e., that left-wing media we always hear about) was making
> comparisons to Dukakis riding around in the tank. That *was* a PR shot (and
> obviously very ill-conceived); this was NOT. GOT THAT, OH IGNORANT BLACK
> BIRD?
See, if you had a shred of truth in your mistaken belife, well I could see
it, but hell, your position doesn't stand to reason: The insinde of the
orbiter is not a huge space: how do you think this mystery cameraman
eluded Kerry's notice? Is he _that_ ignorant that he cannot see someone
with a camera a few feet away? Further, you think he goes around striking
poses for people even though he thinks they don't have a camera?
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NASA spokesmen who are
being smeared by Kerry for the Kerry campaign's mistake.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39703
Jerry Bauer
(in article <lo1Vc.123$Fg2....@newshog.newsread.com>):
> Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
<<<...>>>
>> Yeah, thank God your guy doesn't go saying stuff like that.
>
<<< The following has been lightly edited: spelling errors corrected,
for clarity.>>>
> Actually, I think that the R's thank god that when he makes a big gaffe,
> he doesn't mean it. There's a difference between a Bushism and position
> out of left field.
That's because he plays the right field.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
cinch the election.
hymie!
Joe Shimkus <j...@shimkus.com>, who said:
>Probably 'cause the right-wing blowhards (O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter,
>etc.) would call it unpatriotic and/or treasonous to make fun of the
>current President in a bunny suit. It's not so much the making fun of,
>it's the (expected) hypocritical lack of acceptance of reciprocity.
^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "documented".
hymie! http://www.smart.net/~hymowitz hy...@lactose.smart.net
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Joseph Michael Bay
>>> Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
>>> starting to do so, for me.
>>>
>>
>> Many similarities of personality, but Cheney is much smarter.
>Cheney seems more cunning, but he could never have come up with
>"nattering nabobs of negativity".
That was Safire, as Safire never tires of pointing out. It was
slightly clever at the time, but what's the big deal about it?
Also, "Spiro Agnew" can be rearranged to "Grow a penis", an
immature macho insult, while "Dick Cheney" becomes "I deny check",
a comment on the arrogant abuse of executive privilege.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
>> ra...@westnet.poe.com writes:
>> >Besides, Amercia really needs to wage a "more senstive war".
>> >How _dare_ someone try to ridicule our fine tradition of sensitive
>> >warriors!
>> Yeah, thank God your guy doesn't go saying stuff like that.
>Actually, I think that the R's thank god that when he makes a bug gaffe,
>he doesn't mean it. There's a difference between a Bushism and position
>out of left feild.
So Bush didn't mean it when he said we needed to be sensitive
about intelligence gathering versus apprehending terrorists, or
when he said we had to be sensitive about expressing our power
and our influence? That would mean he's been lying.
Or, perhaps he *did* mean those when he said them, but then
stopped believing in them, which would mean he's been flip-flopping.
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> And of course Cheney's smug, snide, sarcastic, mocking attack is for Kerry's
> use of the word "sensitive" in describing his approach to fighting the war
> on terror. It was fantastic that the next day, footage showed up of Bush
> saying the same thing, that we had to be sensitive in our approach to
> fighting the war on terror.
>
> It's Cheney's intolerable smugness that is at issue, a smugness he should
> not have given that he was a coward re: the Vietnam war. The comparison to
> Clinton is irrelevant.
>
> Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
> starting to do so, for me.
I'm a little perplexed by the comments about Cheney. He was born in
1941 and would have been past the draft age in 1969. That's also the
year he started working in the White House.
So, what am I missing that makes a guy with a notoriously bad ticker
such a Freddy Kruger?
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> On 18 Aug 2004 08:32:33 -0500, "M C Hamster"
> <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
>
>
>>starting to do so, for me.
>>
>
>
>
But he doesn't writen stirring patriotic songs like Agnew did.
Bill
Sean Houtman
>SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>> give out.
>
>Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
>job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
>cinch the election.
I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being our
first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated, patriotic,
and likable person.
Joe Shimkus
"Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek" <leret...@putaindencule.com>
wrote:
> I'm a little perplexed by the comments about Cheney. He was born in
> 1941 and would have been past the draft age in 1969.
You think the US was only involved in Vietnam after 1969?
Joe Shimkus
seanh...@aol.comnose (Sean Houtman) wrote:
> I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being
> our
> first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated,
> patriotic,
> and likable person.
Yeah, but hasn't he pretty much shot his wad with his involvement with
this Administration?
I certainly would have considered voting for him back in '96 if he had
run. My take was he was convinced not to by his wife who didn't want to
be a widow. Today, he may be damaged goods.
Joseph Michael Bay
>M C Hamster wrote:
>> And of course Cheney's smug, snide, sarcastic, mocking attack is for Kerry's
>> use of the word "sensitive" in describing his approach to fighting the war
>> on terror. It was fantastic that the next day, footage showed up of Bush
>> saying the same thing, that we had to be sensitive in our approach to
>> fighting the war on terror.
>>
>> It's Cheney's intolerable smugness that is at issue, a smugness he should
>> not have given that he was a coward re: the Vietnam war. The comparison to
>> Clinton is irrelevant.
>>
>> Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
>> starting to do so, for me.
>I'm a little perplexed by the comments about Cheney. He was born in
>1941 and would have been past the draft age in 1969.
What's so special about 1969? The draft had been going on for quite
a while (okay, technically for decades, but it actually meant something
what with troop buildup in Vietnam beginning around '61 or so, and LBJ
doubled the draft calls in mid-'65).
Something that kind of amuses me is: Selective Service (the draft
board) announced that instead of exempting all married men, they
were only going to exempt married men *with children*. This was
announced October 26, 1965. Nine months and two days later, July
28 1966, Elizabeth Cheney was born.
Joseph Michael Bay
>From: ra...@westnet.poe.com
>>SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>>> give out.
>>
>>Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
>>job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
>>cinch the election.
>I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being our
>first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated, patriotic,
>and likable person.
Well, yeah. He totally doesn't fit in.
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
Agnew didn't either. That was Pat Buchanan.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
Nice. You've just validated why a lot of non-Democrats won't vote for a
Democratic candidate.
Bill
Joe Shimkus
> SoCalMike wrote:
> > hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
> > give out.
>
> Nice. You've just validated why a lot of non-Democrats won't vote for a
> Democratic candidate.
Simply because some schmuck (no offense Mike; I'm talking in general
terms) makes a less than kind statement? Now, if said schmuck was
helping set policy there'd be a point but simply 'cause of the man in
the street? Anyone basing his/her decision on that is not making
rational choices.
Big David
> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
> >> > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> >> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> >> > Harkin.
> >I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to
tell him he's also coward.
> I don't recall Clinton questioning Bob Dole's war record.
So? Until Senator Harkin applies his "principles" to all who avoided service
in Vietnam, I'll take his vitriol with a large dose of salt.
Kerry is using his service in Vietnam as a platform plank, stating
emphatically that he is more qualified to be commander-in-chief because of
that service. Well, if you're going to run on it, you can't be exempt from it
being questioned. You don't like Cheney doing it? Fine, I'm a combat vet,
I'll question it.
--
Big David
"If people were required to have lie-detector tests before fucking, ZPG would
be a very happy group"
Boron, AFCA, September 1, 2002
Big David
> >> > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> >> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> >> > Harkin.
> >I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to
tell
> >him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> >posturing and suggest you do the same.
> Cheney is a dick, David, and I am not talking about his name. He is
> a hideous person. Don't defend him and don't try to deflect the
> argument back to Clinton who has nothing to do with this. How can you
> possibly come to Cheney's defense?
It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney? No, but I
dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things he did after he
came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
> Besides, the situation is not the same. Clinton did not go around
> criticizing someone else's military record or capabilities in any way
> similar to what Cheney is doing.
No, but Senator Harkin is. And what I am saying is that Senator Harkin's
statement is more about political posturing than real outrage at Dick Cheney's
failure to serve because Senator Harkin never in his life said that about
Clinton, who is in the same boat as Cheney. Actually, Cheney had legit
exemptions. Clinton lied to get his.
Mr C
> In article <gvWdnaVZO9A...@comcast.com>,
> "Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
> > > > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
> > > > Harkin.
> >
> > I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to tell
> > him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
> > posturing and suggest you do the same.
>
> recall Clinton deriding someone's war record.
>
> From the article:
>
> > He [Harkin] accused President Bush and his vice president of
> > "resorting to dirty attacks on John Kerry's war record."
>
> So, while Clinton could perhaps be called a coward, the situation is not
> the same
In what way was Clinton's draft deferral cowardly? I understood that
he won a Rhodes Scholarship, involving a year at Oxford. While not
exemplifying much in the way of military courage, it does at least
speak to his intellectual prowess--and it's a far cry from the version
of Clinton's life spouted by a staunch Republican acquaintance of
mine, in which he fled to Russia, became a Communist and burned the US
flag in Red Square, possibly while chanting Satanic incantations.
While Shrub and Cheney are both men of dubious personal mettle, Kerry
stacks up with GHB and Dole. The Dems are doing a terrible job of
making this point. They should play on Bush's own words and deeds:
the landing on the aircarft carrier, followed by a lingering shot of
the "Mission Accomplished" banner. Fade to photos of flag-draped
servicemen's caskets being brought home (Oops, sorry, such pictures
are not allowed by this administration), Abu Ghraib photos, continued
mayhem in Iraq, Bush sucking some Saudi cock ...
Mr C
Joe Shimkus
cams...@att.net (Mr C) wrote:
> Joe Shimkus <j...@shimkus.com> wrote in message
> news:<joe-188203.0...@individual.net>...
> > So, while Clinton could perhaps be called a coward, the situation is not
> > the same
>
> In what way was Clinton's draft deferral cowardly?
I meant in a similar situation to the non-serving Cheney challenging
someone's Vietnam war record, if Clinton did the same having someone who
actually served calling Clinton a coward would perhaps be understandable.
Boron Elgar
<david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:14:12 -0400, "Big David"
>> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > "When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who
>> >> > would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," said
>> >> > Harkin.
>
>> >I'm assuming that Senator Harkin will be calling ex-President Clinton to
>tell
>> >him he's also coward. If not, I'm gonna chalk this one up to political
>> >posturing and suggest you do the same.
>
>> Cheney is a dick, David, and I am not talking about his name. He is
>> a hideous person. Don't defend him and don't try to deflect the
>> argument back to Clinton who has nothing to do with this. How can you
>> possibly come to Cheney's defense?
>
>It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney? No, but I
>dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things he did after he
>came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
>
>
>> Besides, the situation is not the same. Clinton did not go around
>> criticizing someone else's military record or capabilities in any way
>> similar to what Cheney is doing.
>
>No, but Senator Harkin is. And what I am saying is that Senator Harkin's
>statement is more about political posturing than real outrage at Dick Cheney's
>failure to serve because Senator Harkin never in his life said that about
>Clinton, who is in the same boat as Cheney. Actually, Cheney had legit
>exemptions. Clinton lied to get his.
I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
go. Everything.
And what isn't political posturing right now? Everything will be until
November (if we're lucky it'll be November and not drag on for months
afterwards.)
Boron
Bob Ward
Cite?
http://www.truth-teller.com/000056.html
Over 30 years ago Vice President Spiro Agnew famously referred to the
press corps as "nattering nabobs of negativity". Then-speechwriter
now-syndicated-columnist William Safire takes credit for providing the
memorable alliterative phrase, calling it one of his "witty put-downs
of the left-stooping liberal media". A little research (but not in
most dictionaries) will tell you the word "nabob" was long-used as a
derogatory term for a self-appointed arbiter of social or political
morality, and for a pompous, self-important person. "Nattering" of
course, simply means idle chatter, so Safire/Agnew seemed to be
dismissing the pompous media naysayers of the day as irrelevant, or at
the very least, far from accurate.
http://www.townonline.com/brookline/news/opinion/bt_colbrstanleyrun09032003.htm
In a 1970 speech, then Vice President Spiro Agnew proclaimed "In the
United States today, we have more than our share of the nattering
nabobs of negativity." This utterance, authored by Agnew speech writer
and current New York Times columnist William Safire, referred to
critics of President Richard Nixon, especially those opposed to the
Viet Nam war. In that context, the language was offensive. But today,
these words can legitimately be applied to the delegation of devout
doomsayers using the TAB and cable TV to deliver a deluge of
denigration describing democracy in present day Brookline.
Big David
> >> Cheney is a dick, David, and I am not talking about his name. He is
> >> a hideous person. Don't defend him and don't try to deflect the
> >> argument back to Clinton who has nothing to do with this. How can you
possibly come to Cheney's defense?
> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney? No,
but I
> >dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things he did after
he
> >came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
I kinda take it personally, what with him calling my dad a war criminal
without really knowing what the fuck he was talking about since he never left
the southern delta in his looooong three months of service.
> >No, but Senator Harkin is. And what I am saying is that Senator Harkin's
> >statement is more about political posturing than real outrage at Dick
Cheney's
> >failure to serve because Senator Harkin never in his life said that about
> >Clinton, who is in the same boat as Cheney. Actually, Cheney had legit
> >exemptions. Clinton lied to get his.
> I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
> gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
> about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
> I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
> someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
> now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
> go. Everything.
I can appreciate that sentiment. I don't share it, but I can appreciate it
as a parent.
> And what isn't political posturing right now? Everything will be until
> November (if we're lucky it'll be November and not drag on for months
afterwards.)
Agreed.
groo
> On 18 Aug 2004 17:54:19 -0500, "M C Hamster"
> <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>kay, your biggest mistake is the dubious company you keep.
>>
> Can I get a T-shirt with DUBIOUS on it, then?
>
Shouldn't that be "DUBYASS"?
--
"There are situations in which it's just time for a change of
buffoonery." - Kevin O'Neill
Boron Elgar
<david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Boron Elgar" <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:25:20 -0400, "Big David"
>> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Cheney is a dick, David, and I am not talking about his name. He is
>> >> a hideous person. Don't defend him and don't try to deflect the
>> >> argument back to Clinton who has nothing to do with this. How can you
>possibly come to Cheney's defense?
>
>> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney? No,
>but I
>> >dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things he did after
>he
>> >came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
>
>> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
>
>I kinda take it personally, what with him calling my dad a war criminal
>without really knowing what the fuck he was talking about since he never left
>the southern delta in his looooong three months of service.
If a group your father was with was criticized, I can understand how
you feel about it.
I have a friend, a surgeon, who spent was over there. He is a man of
honor - honest and upright - and someone whom I have trusted with my
health and that of my family over the past 25 years. He has stories
that'd curl your hair even more that those lovely ringlets you already
have. He didn't travel far. He didn't stay long. He saw plenty.
It is not that atrocities did not happen over there. They did. They
always do in wartime. Take a bunch of young guys & train them to kill,
kill, kill, and then take them far away from home and family and put
them in a situation in which they are not even sure who the enemy is,
and you have a situation so volatile that it is amazing that there are
not more horrors.
Boron
Big David
> always do in wartime. Take a bunch of young guys & train them to kill,
> kill, kill, and then take them far away from home and family and put
> them in a situation in which they are not even sure who the enemy is,
> and you have a situation so volatile that it is amazing that there are not
more horrors.
I know they did happen over there. My dad and I have talked about it many
times. My Lai was a clambake if he is to be believed. But Lt. Kerry's vast
experience of 3 months in the delta on a swiftboat hardly qualifies him to
state categorically that all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines there
were committing war crimes. He had absolutely no way of knowing that and it's
evidence, to me, of his arrogance and hubris for him to do so and stand by
that comment today. Have him talk to my dad about what he saw when he and the
Marines to whom he was attached re-took the ancient capital of Hue after Tet
if the Lt. wants to know about war crimes.
M C Hamster
news:cg3d2k$1si$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
> "Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek" <leret...@putaindencule.com> writes:
> Something that kind of amuses me is: Selective Service (the draft
> board) announced that instead of exempting all married men, they
> were only going to exempt married men *with children*. This was
> announced October 26, 1965. Nine months and two days later, July
> 28 1966, Elizabeth Cheney was born.
>
That's "can-do" Dick for you. (Or dick, take your choice.)
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
M C Hamster
>
> I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
> gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
> about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
> I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
> someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
> now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
> go. Everything.
I've got a 22 year old man-child and a 19 year old woman-child of my own.
What sorts of things are you thinking of as options, if they had to
reinstate the draft? I mean, both kids have said they would be outta here,
quick, presumably to Canada. What other suggestions do you have?
Jason Quick
> It was fantastic that the next day, footage showed up of Bush
> saying the same thing, that we had to be sensitive in our approach to
> fighting the war on terror.
Bush? Cheney hisself, forfuckssakes, declaimed the need for sensitivity
(re: that mosque in Najaf) in an interview right after hammering Kerry for
his comments.
Jason
Jason Quick
> I know they did happen over there. My dad and I have talked about it many
> times. My Lai was a clambake if he is to be believed. But Lt. Kerry's
vast
> experience of 3 months in the delta on a swiftboat hardly qualifies him to
> state categorically that all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines
there
> were committing war crimes.
Did he say that? I've certainly seen it stated, but FWIU, he wasn't on some
wholesale
indictment of the people themselves, but the war being a gigantic criminal
enterprise put up
by the politicians.
> He had absolutely no way of knowing that and it's
> evidence, to me, of his arrogance and hubris for him to do so and stand by
> that comment today.
So, only people who were there can comment on the happenings? I can't
imagine you mean that.
Jason
Big David
> "Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I know they did happen over there. My dad and I have talked about it many
> > times. My Lai was a clambake if he is to be believed. But Lt. Kerry's
> vast experience of 3 months in the delta on a swiftboat hardly qualifies him
to
> > state categorically that all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines
> there were committing war crimes.
> Did he say that?
He says so in his Senate testimony in 1971.
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html
He stated the the U.S. was "murdering" over 200K people a year.
>"I've certainly seen it stated, but FWIU, he wasn't on some
> wholesale indictment of the people themselves, but the war being a gigantic
criminal
> enterprise put up by the politicians.
That too.
> > He had absolutely no way of knowing that and it's
> > evidence, to me, of his arrogance and hubris for him to do so and stand by
> > that comment today.
> So, only people who were there can comment on the happenings? I can't
imagine you mean that.
I didn't say that. What I am saying is he did little to no investigation of
what he alleged and the stories he did get were from his fellow travelers in
VVA. If he had, like, done a comprehensive study, with interviews of soldiers
and marines and sailors as they departed country and had some, like, evidence,
I'd be much more inclined to believe him. I'm much more inclined to believe
the things my dad says because, well, he's not a proven liar.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> From: ra...@westnet.poe.com
> >SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
> >> give out.
> >
> >Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
> >job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
> >cinch the election.
> I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being our
> first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated, patriotic,
> and likable person.
MIL: My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's a Republican.
Me: My only problem wioth Colin Powell is that he's not president.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
I'm waiting for Harkin to get all over Edwards shit for avoiding service
in Vietnam.
John - But I'm not holding my breath
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:25:20 -0400, "Big David"
> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney?
> >No, but I dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things
> >he did after he came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
I wouldn't mind that nearly so much if he wasn't trying to _now_ draw the
cloak of war hero over himself.
John
Boron Elgar
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
A lot would depend upon the circumstances of the draft itself and of
the military encounters under way. It is Iraq to which I object, not
the military and not the draft. I understand the necessity of
defending the nation and that is something my children and I have
discussed, but I feel about Iraq the way I did about Viet Nam, perhaps
even more strongly, as the Viet Nam policy, though very misguided,
IMO, was not based on the whole cloth of Iraq.
I do not like a war that is "marketed" to the populace, as if it were
a new detergent .Times have changed since Viet Nam and there is a
slick Federal machine pumping out bullshit that is 10 times worse than
during the VN years and the ability to get any honest and real
information is much more restricted than it was for VN.
People like Charles Rangel want the absolute minimum of exemptions in
a new draft so that the rich & complected will have to serve just as
the poor and unconnected. He wants to make sure that if Congress is
going to send children to war, that their own will be subject to its
demands, too.
I like Canada, though I rather doubt they will have many of us this
time. With an administration such as we have, you can bet there would
be much pressure put on them, too.
It is my country, right or wrong, but if its wrongs are so morally
offensive to me, my choices are to work for change or leave. I am
currently working for change.
Boron
Boron Elgar
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
Let's fix that quick finger spell-checker goof...
People like Charles Rangel want the absolute minimum of exemptions in
a new draft so that the rich & CONNECTED will have to serve just as
the poor and unconnected. He wants to make sure that if Congress is
going to send children to war, that their own will be subject to its
demands, too.
Boron
The Ulterior Decorator
>From: ra...@westnet.poe.com
>
>>SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>>> give out.
>>
>>Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
>>job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
>>cinch the election.
>
>I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being
>our
>first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated,
>patriotic,
>and likable person.
Yes, but it must be very painful for him to remove his considerable spine every
morning before he goes to work with these yahoos
Boron Elgar
<david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jason Quick" <jsq...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> "Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > I know they did happen over there. My dad and I have talked about it many
>> > times. My Lai was a clambake if he is to be believed. But Lt. Kerry's
>> vast experience of 3 months in the delta on a swiftboat hardly qualifies him
>to
>> > state categorically that all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines
>> there were committing war crimes.
>
>> Did he say that?
>
>He says so in his Senate testimony in 1971.
>http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html
>He stated the the U.S. was "murdering" over 200K people a year.
I know you fully understand the intent of that statement and that
Kerry was referring to what he considered the illegality and
immorality of the war. Saying the US is murdering people does not
indicate that individual soldiers are murderers - at least to me and
millons of others it doesn't now and it didn't then and I was active
in this large, anti-war movement.
>
>
>>"I've certainly seen it stated, but FWIU, he wasn't on some
>> wholesale indictment of the people themselves, but the war being a gigantic
>criminal
>> enterprise put up by the politicians.
>
>That too.
That primarily and perhaps singularly. I know it may sound silly to
say this, but I WAS here in 1971and very much a part of the anti-war
movement. I know what was written, I know what was said and I truly
understand the context of it a lot of it better than you do. I lived
that context every single day of those years. Sometimes being an old
fart has it advantages in discussion.
>> > He had absolutely no way of knowing that and it's
>> > evidence, to me, of his arrogance and hubris for him to do so and stand by
>> > that comment today.
>
>> So, only people who were there can comment on the happenings? I can't
>imagine you mean that.
>
>I didn't say that. What I am saying is he did little to no investigation of
>what he alleged and the stories he did get were from his fellow travelers in
>VVA. If he had, like, done a comprehensive study, with interviews of soldiers
>and marines and sailors as they departed country and had some, like, evidence,
>I'd be much more inclined to believe him. I'm much more inclined to believe
>the things my dad says because, well, he's not a proven liar.
Kerry did not do this alone. You make it appear as if he and he alone
came to this conclusion and no one ever verified what he said. You
have to have some background and credibility to get where he got at
that point in his life. He was not a lone voice crying out in the
wilderness, but one of millions, including many who had served, and
who also felt the way he did.
There were also a lot of those who felt as your father did, of course.
It was a divided nation then, too. Your father saw his side of it,
David. I do not care how long or where he served, but he came to
conclusions based on that portion of the war with which *he* was
connected, including his before, during and after experiences. No one
can be claimed incontrovertibly correct on such a basis. It in no way
whatsoever indicates that your father is anything less than
honest-as-the-day-is-long, nor that he has an agenda...he is just
telling his side of it and telling it earnestly to a son whom he loves
and to whom he offers guidance. He is your dad, and sounds as if he is
of the same high caliber dad that you are.
Now look...I am not a Kerry devotee. He is much too much to the right
and hawkish for my tastes, so I do not defend Kerry, The Man, but he
did not emerge full-blown at that Senate hearing. He was all over the
country, talking to groups and vets and that, tied with his own
experience and his education and intelligence, went far to allow him
to learn things *beyond* his own experiences. His experiences allowed
him to begin his quest, but it did not pave his roadway not take him
to the end of it. His own extra efforts did, as did the efforts of
other vets and those who were well versed in the study and practice of
war.
The idea of Just War is not a new one. Go read Walzer or Lackey or
Rachels, all of whom were bouncing around during those years. They do
not limit themselves to the VN war in their study of ethics, but some
of them were galvanized by it, as they lived though those divided
times.
Boron
Dana Carpender
ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote:
> Sean Houtman <seanh...@aol.comnose> wrote:
>
>>From: ra...@westnet.poe.com
>>
>>>SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>>>>give out.
>>>
>>>Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
>>>job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
>>>cinch the election.
>
>
>>I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being our
>>first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated, patriotic,
>>and likable person.
>
>
> MIL: My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's a Republican.
> Me: My only problem wioth Colin Powell is that he's not president.
>
>
My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's gone from being a strong
man of conscience to being a lapdog for the Bush administration. Oh,
and he lied to the UN.
Dana
Peter Boulding
<dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
>My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's gone from being a strong
>man of conscience to being a lapdog for the Bush administration. Oh,
>and he lied to the UN.
That presentation has irremediably damaged the public image of both
Colin Powell and Microsoft Powerpoint.
--
Regards Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal gallery: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Fractal music: http://www.pjbmusic2.freeserve.co.uk/
ra...@westnet.poe.com
See? He has the whakadoodles against him: he can't be all that bad.
Boron Elgar
<dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
He was a solid Reagan man & up to his ass in Iran Contra.. I thought
as you did, then realized I had fallen for the image, rather than the
actuality.
Boron
Joseph Michael Bay
>"Big David" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I know they did happen over there. My dad and I have talked about it many
>> times. My Lai was a clambake if he is to be believed. But Lt. Kerry's
>vast
>> experience of 3 months in the delta on a swiftboat hardly qualifies him to
>> state categorically that all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines
>there
>> were committing war crimes.
>Did he say that? I've certainly seen it stated, but FWIU, he wasn't on some
>wholesale
>indictment of the people themselves, but the war being a gigantic criminal
>enterprise put up
>by the politicians.
Heck, one can read the statement for oneself.
lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html
(Or google for vietnam kerry statement).
There's really no place in there where he says "Every American soldier
in Vietnam is committing atrocities", rather that 150 vets spoke and
had said that they witnessed them or were personally involved in them.
If one is to take issue with the idea that we shouldn't have fought
in Vietnam, well, that's something reasonable people can disagree on
without calling each other liars. But if you hear that someone made
a particular statement that greatly offends you, you should probably
check that out.
--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ yes right i am the king of limousines
Joseph Michael Bay
>I'm waiting for Harkin to get all over Edwards shit for avoiding service
>in Vietnam.
>John - But I'm not holding my breath
That would be pretty amusing.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Boron Elgar <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:25:20 -0400, "Big David"
>> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><snip>
>> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney?
>> >No, but I dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things
>> >he did after he came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
>> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
>I wouldn't mind that nearly so much if he wasn't trying to _now_ draw the
>cloak of war hero over himself.
Yeah, opposing a war he fought in, apparently with some
distinction, that really pisses me off too. WTF?
Opus the Penguin
>"Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek" wrote:
>
>>Jerry Bauer wrote:
>>>
>>> Cheney seems more cunning, but he could never have come up with
>>> "nattering nabobs of negativity".
>
>>
>>Agnew didn't either. That was Pat Buchanan.
>>
>>Bill
>
> Cite?
>
> http://www.truth-teller.com/000056.html
> Over 30 years ago Vice President Spiro Agnew famously referred to
> the press corps as "nattering nabobs of negativity".
> Then-speechwriter now-syndicated-columnist William Safire takes
> credit for providing the memorable alliterative phrase, calling it
> one of his "witty put-downs of the left-stooping liberal media". A
> little research (but not in most dictionaries) will tell you the
> word "nabob" was long-used as a derogatory term for a
> self-appointed arbiter of social or political morality, and for a
> pompous, self-important person. "Nattering" of course, simply
> means idle chatter, so Safire/Agnew seemed to be dismissing the
> pompous media naysayers of the day as irrelevant, or at the very
> least, far from accurate.
What I want to know is when "nattering nabobs of negativism" became
"nattering nabobs of negativity."
--
Opus the Penguin (that's my real email addy)
You snipped my sig!
Boron Elgar
Michael Bay) wrote:
>ra...@westnet.poe.com writes:
>
>>Boron Elgar <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:25:20 -0400, "Big David"
>>> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>><snip>
>>> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney?
>>> >No, but I dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things
>>> >he did after he came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
>
>>> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
>
>>I wouldn't mind that nearly so much if he wasn't trying to _now_ draw the
>>cloak of war hero over himself.
>
>
>Yeah, opposing a war he fought in, apparently with some
>distinction, that really pisses me off too. WTF?
Who better to be a war hero than a person who has lived through the
war experience, seen its dangers and consequences and leaned them well
enough to know they should never be undertaken except as a last resort
when all diplomacy has failed and our decision and just cause is
verified by others.
Boron
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>
>
>What I want to know is when "nattering nabobs of negativism" became
>"nattering nabobs of negativity."
What about Boston? What happened???
Boron
M C Hamster
news:20040820111059...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Actually, it's not too hard. You just have to first remove the two cajones,
and then the spine slides right out the bottom.
Jason Quick
<ra...@westnet.poe.com> wrote:
> I'm waiting for Harkin to get all over Edwards shit for avoiding service
> in Vietnam.
That *would* be interesting, since Edwards wasn't of draft age
until...uh...1971, I think.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2103487/
"Edwards was born on June 10, 1953. That put him in the Vietnam
draft lottery of Feb. 2, 1972, when Edwards was a sophomore at
North Carolina State University. (Like a great many college students,
he opposed the war.) The lottery ranked individuals according to their
birth date; Edwards drew 178, which was reasonably "good," i.e., high,
reducing the likelihood he would be called up. (The highest number
called during the previous year had been 95.) In any event, Edwards'
lottery number didn't even matter, because nobody in the 1972 lottery
was ever called up."
Jason
M C Hamster
news:20040820111059...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Colin's planning a book of his own, called "Profiles in Obedience".
M C Hamster
> On 19 Aug 2004 23:50:17 -0500, "M C Hamster"
> <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
> >"Boron Elgar" <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:t4jai0pe926ccg74e...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
> >> gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
> >> about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
> >> I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
> >> someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
> >> now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
> >> go. Everything.
> >
> >I've got a 22 year old man-child and a 19 year old woman-child of my own.
> >What sorts of things are you thinking of as options, if they had to
> >reinstate the draft? I mean, both kids have said they would be outta
here,
> >quick, presumably to Canada. What other suggestions do you have?
> >
> Let's fix that quick finger spell-checker goof...
>
Do you spell-check every posting you make to AFCA? I'm not sure, but isn't
that against the rules of the charter?
I can think of at least one regular poster here who might benefit, though.
Opus the Penguin
Didn't Deborah tell you? ;-)
Seriously, the interview seemed to go fine. I certainly enjoyed meeting
the members of the search committee, and I think my answers seemed to
be in accordance with what they're looking for. I was the last of three
such interviews and they hope to decide by the end of the month which
of the three they want to bring out for a 10 day candidating trip.
If that's me, I'm thinking of wearing a bunny suit.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> ra...@westnet.poe.com writes:
> >Boron Elgar <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:25:20 -0400, "Big David"
> >> <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ><snip>
> >> >It's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney?
> >> >No, but I dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things
> >> >he did after he came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
> >> Oh, sigh...I , of course, think well of him for doing just that.
> >I wouldn't mind that nearly so much if he wasn't trying to _now_ draw the
> >cloak of war hero over himself.
> Yeah, opposing a war he fought in,
<snip>
Well, yeah, stabbing his buddies in the back, that's the sort of thing
he's been doing. I don't mind so much, he doesn't need to have great
respect for the military or the people hwo serve, but then to draw upon
thier mantle and claim the respect that some _do_ afford those who serve
when he's done so much to hurt them, well yeah...
> that really pisses me off too.
Yuppers.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:32:55 +0000 (UTC), jm...@Stanford.EDU (Joseph
> Michael Bay) wrote:
> >Yeah, opposing a war he fought in, apparently with some
> >distinction, that really pisses me off too. WTF?
> Who better to be a war hero than a person who has lived through the
> war experience, seen its dangers and consequences and leaned them well
> enough to know they should never be undertaken except as a last resort
> when all diplomacy has failed and our decision and just cause is
> verified by others.
Who is this mythical person? Certanly not Kerry who approved the war that
you're all so het up about despising. Certanly it's not Kerry who not
only voted for the war, but argued persuasively in it's favor to win over
his fellow democrats who may have had reservations that we had not indeed
reached that 'last resort'. Certanly it's not Kerry who selected as his
running mate John Edwards, a guy who co-sponsored the war resolution.
Unles, of course, it could be Kerry if you accept that you were indeed
wrong in thinking that we were not at that "last resort". But then the
vast majority of your flaming of the Bush adminstration would have to be
baseless.
Of course, for Kerry boosters having both ways is the way to go.
Sean Houtman
>t's politics and nothing but, Boron. Do I personally like Cheney? No, but I
>dislike Kerry a great deal more because I believe the things he did after he
>came back from Vietnam are inexcusable.
>
What, you think that if people are exposed to something that they don't like,
they shouldn't tell you about it? Kerry went to Vietnam, he didn't like it,
even though he did a good job and got lots of medals there. When he got back,
he told us that he didn't like being there, and spoke about some of the things
he saw. If you get run over by a truck, don't you tell people that getting run
over by a truck hurts?
Sean
--
Visit my photolog page; http://members.aol.com/grommit383/myhomepage
Last updated 03-16-04 with 42 pictures of Chaco Canyon.
Address mungled. To email, please spite my face.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
<snipola>
> If that's me, I'm thinking of wearing a bunny suit.
Speaking of which, Hey MC! Am I getting a hamster from you for the
misheaped abuse over your mistaken idea about Kerry in the bunnysuit, or
is embarrased silence supposed to be my only consolation?
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> From: ra...@westnet.poe.com
>
>
>>SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>>>give out.
>>
>>Oooh, that would be lovely... Give Bush a chance to snag Powel for the
>>job. Peel off a substantial portion of the Black vote and quite possibly
>>cinch the election.
>
>
> I really don't have a problem with Powell being one pretzel away from being our
> first Black President. He is a very intelligent, sincere, dedicated, patriotic,
> and likable person.
>
>
>
>
Reasonable, moderate, thinks before he speaks and softly at that.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> In article <V2aVc.27177$Yl.20536@okepread07>,
> "Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek" <leret...@putaindencule.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm a little perplexed by the comments about Cheney. He was born in
>>1941 and would have been past the draft age in 1969.
>
>
> You think the US was only involved in Vietnam after 1969?
>
When was the draft reinstituted? Wasn't the first draft lottery in 1969?
ISTR that Cheney had student deferrments prior to that.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> "Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek" <leret...@putaindencule.com> writes:
>
>
>>M C Hamster wrote:
>
>
>>>And of course Cheney's smug, snide, sarcastic, mocking attack is for Kerry's
>>>use of the word "sensitive" in describing his approach to fighting the war
>>>on terror. It was fantastic that the next day, footage showed up of Bush
>>>saying the same thing, that we had to be sensitive in our approach to
>>>fighting the war on terror.
>>>
>>>It's Cheney's intolerable smugness that is at issue, a smugness he should
>>>not have given that he was a coward re: the Vietnam war. The comparison to
>>>Clinton is irrelevant.
>>>
>>>Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
>>>starting to do so, for me.
>
>
>>I'm a little perplexed by the comments about Cheney. He was born in
>>1941 and would have been past the draft age in 1969.
>
>
>
> a while (okay, technically for decades, but it actually meant something
> what with troop buildup in Vietnam beginning around '61 or so, and LBJ
> doubled the draft calls in mid-'65).
>
> Something that kind of amuses me is: Selective Service (the draft
> board) announced that instead of exempting all married men, they
> were only going to exempt married men *with children*. This was
> announced October 26, 1965. Nine months and two days later, July
> 28 1966, Elizabeth Cheney was born.
>
>
>
Wasn't Dick in college yet? Still eligible for those student deferrments
that were so popular amongs aspiring politicals of the day?
Hmmm. Who else could possible have used student deferrments? Ponder,
ponder.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> In article <RYaVc.27418$Yl.7412@okepread07>,> wrote:
>
>
>>SoCalMike wrote:
>
>
>>>hes losing it, big time. maybe if were lucky, his ticker will finally
>>>give out.
>>
>>Democratic candidate.
>
>
> Simply because some schmuck (no offense Mike; I'm talking in general
> terms) makes a less than kind statement? Now, if said schmuck was
> helping set policy there'd be a point but simply 'cause of the man in
> the street? Anyone basing his/her decision on that is not making
> rational choices.
>
It exposes a major repellent characteristic that puts a lot of us off
who might consider voting Democratic. Speaking just for me (after all,
there's only one voice in my head today) - I won't vote for parties that
attract people who wish other people would drop dead, encourage their
demise, or would encourage their murder.
Simple as that.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:45:03 -0400, "Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek"
> <leret...@putaindencule.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Jerry Bauer wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:54:57 -0700, Boron Elgar wrote
>>>(in article <rsu6i0h9pjlbebd33...@4ax.com>):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 18 Aug 2004 08:32:33 -0500, "M C Hamster"
>>>><davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does Cheney remind any of the oldsters in AFCA of Spiro Agnew? He's
>>>>>starting to do so, for me.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Cheney seems more cunning, but he could never have come up with
>>>"nattering nabobs of negativity".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Agnew didn't either. That was Pat Buchanan.
>>
>>Bill
>
>
> Cite?
Buchanan's been telling this story for twenty or thirty years now.
Safire's starting claiming the line in recent years.
Buchanan tells the story every chance he gets. Seriously. It's like
listening to Great Grandmpa describe the time he had to walk to the
neighbors house to borrow a cat to clean up milk he spilled.
On the whole, both Safire and Buchanan are cited together.
Bill
Joseph Michael Bay
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:45:09 GMT, Dana Carpender
><dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
>>My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's gone from being a strong
>>man of conscience to being a lapdog for the Bush administration. Oh,
>>and he lied to the UN.
>That presentation has irremediably damaged the public image of both
>Colin Powell and Microsoft Powerpoint.
zP"""*e.
(.)" (.)$
$ $ It looks like you're trying to
$ $ $ $ get international support for
$ $ $ $ an invasion. Would you like me to:
$ $ $ $
$ $ $ $
$ $ $ $ ( ) Rely on questionable contacts?
$ $ $ $ ( ) Use outdated doctoral theses?
$ $ $ $ ( ) Raytrace some trucks?
$ $ $ $
$ $ $ $
$ ^b...." $
$ $
". d
^*e....e"
Joseph Michael Bay
>Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
>> ra...@westnet.poe.com writes:
>> >I wouldn't mind that nearly so much if he wasn't trying to _now_ draw the
>> >cloak of war hero over himself.
>> Yeah, opposing a war he fought in,
><snip>
>Well, yeah, stabbing his buddies in the back, that's the sort of thing
>he's been doing. I don't mind so much, he doesn't need to have great
>respect for the military or the people hwo serve, but then to draw upon
>thier mantle and claim the respect that some _do_ afford those who serve
>when he's done so much to hurt them, well yeah...
He stabbed his buddies in the back by repeating to congress what
his buddies had asked him to repeat?
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to understand what you're saying.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Aug 2004 18:28:22 GMT, Opus the Penguin
>> <nospa...@netzero.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>What I want to know is when "nattering nabobs of negativism"
>>>became "nattering nabobs of negativity."
>>
>>
>> What about Boston? What happened???
>
>Didn't Deborah tell you? ;-)
>
>Seriously, the interview seemed to go fine. I certainly enjoyed meeting
>the members of the search committee, and I think my answers seemed to
>be in accordance with what they're looking for. I was the last of three
>such interviews and they hope to decide by the end of the month which
>of the three they want to bring out for a 10 day candidating trip.
>
>If that's me, I'm thinking of wearing a bunny suit.
Whatever you do, do not let them take your picture!
Boron
Boron Elgar
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:sp3ci05d6hstn5gk0...@4ax.com...
>> On 19 Aug 2004 23:50:17 -0500, "M C Hamster"
>> <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>>
>> >"Boron Elgar" <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:t4jai0pe926ccg74e...@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >> I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
>> >> gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
>> >> about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
>> >> I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
>> >> someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
>> >> now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
>> >> go. Everything.
>> >
>> >I've got a 22 year old man-child and a 19 year old woman-child of my own.
>> >What sorts of things are you thinking of as options, if they had to
>> >reinstate the draft? I mean, both kids have said they would be outta
>here,
>> >quick, presumably to Canada. What other suggestions do you have?
>> >
>> Let's fix that quick finger spell-checker goof...
>>
>
>Do you spell-check every posting you make to AFCA? I'm not sure, but isn't
>that against the rules of the charter?
It doesn't do me diddly-squat good, anyway, but Agent spell checks
everything before it uploads.
Boron
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> On 19 Aug 2004 23:50:17 -0500, "M C Hamster"
> <davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
>
>
>>"Boron Elgar" <boron_elg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:t4jai0pe926ccg74e...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>I have friends & family who lied to get theirs. I know of MDs who
>>>gladly wrote up exemption-making medical reports. I have no qualms
>>>about it whatsoever and I will tell you this as truth from my heart -
>>>I have a pair of 16 yr old boys plus a 19 yr old girl-child and if
>>>someone tries to draft them to go to Iraq under the circumstances that
>>>now exist, I will do everything in my power to assure that they do not
>>>go. Everything.
>>
>>I've got a 22 year old man-child and a 19 year old woman-child of my own.
>>What sorts of things are you thinking of as options, if they had to
>>reinstate the draft? I mean, both kids have said they would be outta here,
>>quick, presumably to Canada. What other suggestions do you have?
>>
>
> Let's fix that quick finger spell-checker goof...
>
> a new draft so that the rich & CONNECTED will have to serve just as
> the poor and unconnected. He wants to make sure that if Congress is
> going to send children to war, that their own will be subject to its
> demands, too.
>
> Boron
And the military wants nothing to do whatsoever with a draft.
Bill
Bill, the Peripatetic Linux Geek
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:45:09 GMT, Dana Carpender
> <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>>My only problem with Colin Powell is that he's gone from being a strong
>>man of conscience to being a lapdog for the Bush administration. Oh,
>>and he lied to the UN.
>
>
> That presentation has irremediably damaged the public image of both
> Colin Powell and Microsoft Powerpoint.
>
Everyone knows PowerPig blows confetti chunks.
Bill