One Hundred Simple Rules for Serving My Family
Jon M
Rules one through fifty:
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
Fifty one through 100:
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
Jon M
plausible prose man
Huh. I don't totally agree with all of that.
> Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> My personal favorite is 41.
You might be a moron, then.
> I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> was, even briefly.
I'd rather hear "no problem" than "my pleasure." It seems insincere
to suggest bringing me a condiment or whatever brings you some
gratifying sensation or emotion. On the other hand, the things I ask a
waitstaff for likely really could be a problem, as I'm the sort of
fellow who tends to reinvent the menu or otherwise with precise
instructions.
> What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
What if you decided not to be a douche?
> Jon M
David J. Martin
Complaining about "No problem" is one of those things that puts you in
the "Stay off my lawn" crowd. For whatever reason, "no problem" has
replaced "you're welcome" for most people. I'm not even sure if the
yoot these days know that "you're welcome" is a possible response to
"Thank you".
David
PS Stay off my lawn.
Richard R. Hershberger
wrote:
It is a special subset of the "Stay off my lawn" crowd: the one that
demands a strict adherence to rote formula. There is a short list of
acceptable responses to "Thank you." The sin of "No problem" is not
its literal meaning, but its not being on that list.
Anyone who reads and understands Miss Manners knows that intent
matters in etiquette, and indeed matters much more than form. If the
intent of that "No problem" is to make a polite response, then it
succeeds.
Richard R. Hershberger
Richard R. Hershberger
>
>
> Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
My favorite is 66: "Do not return to the guest anything that falls on
the floor — be it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce." If a guest drops
his wallet, it will be like a football fumble drill, since presumably
whoever gains control gets to keep it.
hymie!
Jon M <faceo...@omnicast.net>, who said:
>Fifty one through 100:
>http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
I had a friend for whom this was probably his biggest pet peeve:
88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymie hy...@lactose.homelinux.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Turlock
>
> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
> Jon M <faceo...@omnicast.net>, who said:
>
> >Fifty one through 100:
> >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>
> I had a friend for whom this was probably his biggest pet peeve:
>
> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
A-fuckin-men!
jeff_wisnia
My personal unfavorite wasn't on the list (or I missed it).
It's a server 40+ years younger than my wife and I appearing at our
table and asking, "Do you GUYS know what you want?"
The earlier etymology of the term "guy" says it for me:
"fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or
poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes," leader
of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament (Nov. 5,
1605), paraded through the streets by children on the anniversary of the
conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr., related to It. Guido, lit.
"leader," of Gmc. origin
My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
piercings (earings are acceptable of course). Why any restaurant's
management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
baffles me.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
Veronique
The rules are a weird compendium, combining common sense ("Just bring
the change") with preferences that customers may or may not, er,
prefer, with overall management issues (combining bar and food bill,
or not). With 100 rules, there's something for everyone to love and
hate.
It did remind me of going to a BBQ place on Fillmore Street in San
Francisco back in the day; I was the lone vegetarian among five
friends and had right of refusal but said what the heck, I can order
sides and they can order meat and we'll all be happy. Except that the
waitress, an older woman who looked rode hard and put away wet,
snapped at me and said I had to order meat when I (the 4th to order)
said I just wanted coleslaw and another side. We persuaded her that
the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
finding it elsewhere.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
David Friedman
<8bf4f49a-165a-48df...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We persuaded her that
> the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
> the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
> meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
> finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
> finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
> kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
> finding it elsewhere.
There used to be--probably still is--a restaurant in Boston famous for,
among other things, the (pushy? informal?) personality of the
waitresses.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
Richard R. Hershberger
> On Nov 5, 10:11 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 5, 11:49 am, Jon M <faceonm...@omnicast.net> wrote:
>
> > > From the New York Times:
>
> > > Rules one through fifty:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> > > Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> > > My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> > > be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> > > was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>
> > My favorite is 66: "Do not return to the guest anything that falls on
> > the floor — be it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce." If a guest drops
> > his wallet, it will be like a football fumble drill, since presumably
> > whoever gains control gets to keep it.
>
> The rules are a weird compendium, combining common sense ("Just bring
> the change") with preferences that customers may or may not, er,
> prefer, with overall management issues (combining bar and food bill,
> or not). With 100 rules, there's something for everyone to love and
> hate.
In fairness, the writer does say that these are his rules for a
specific restaurant he is opening. But they certainly do carry a
sense of he thinks this is the Right Way to do things.
Richard R. Hershberger
> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
>
> I had a friend for whom this was probably his biggest pet peeve:
>
> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions. But
I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is handed a
fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change, returning with
the $8.72 to find an empty table. The customers are long gone, having
intended all along to leave the change as a tip. The server could
have saved a trip, had they mentioned this when they handed him the
fifty. Hence the incentive to ask The Question.
Peter Ward
The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49 should
read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you don't need
it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on 56, part of 95,
and no. 96 redundant.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society.
- Krishnamurti
Bill Turlock
good^W^W^W^^W help is hard to find
Bill "especially in a recession" Turlock
Dover Beach
news:a6f46fd9-b59e-4249...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
Among the rules for customers: say "keep the change" or "could I get
change, please?" so the waitron doesn't need to ask.
--
Dover
Bill Turlock
S.F. is an anomaly. I'm recalling a tale relayed by Herb
Caen,(previously googled, with no luck), where a dining party had
such terrible service at a pretty up-scale restaurant (snooty
waiters are usually the norm in such places, but x10 in S.F.)
that they walked out giving _zero_ tip.
Apparently the waiter _chased them out on the street and demanded
to know the reason. They explained in no uncertain terms that his
level of service deserved -no_ tip.
His rejoinder, "Well what do you expect when you tip like that!"
???!!??
ostensibly
Bill Turlock
The server's place is to, erm... serve. It is not the patron's
job to cater to the server.
Bill Turlock
The server's place is to, erm... serve. It is not the patron's
Joseph Nebus
>In fairness, the writer does say that these are his rules for a
>specific restaurant he is opening. But they certainly do carry a
>sense of he thinks this is the Right Way to do things.
On the other hand the list has taught me just what's meant by
ordering something ``neat''. I'd figured that as long as I didn't drink
stuff stronger than Cherry Vanilla Diet Dr Pepper it was all right if I
was vague about it.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opus the Penguin
> Jon M says...
>>
>> From the New York Times:
>>
>> Rules one through fifty:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restau
>> rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>
>> Fifty one through 100:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restau
>> rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>
>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for
>> catsup to be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the
>> waiter thought it was, even briefly. What if I decide I want
>> tartar sauce, too?
>
> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49
> should read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you
> don't need it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on
> 56, part of 95, and no. 96 redundant.
>
It also makes it a certainty that he will not turn a profit and his
restaurant will close.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
N Jill Marsh
<rrh...@acme.com> wrote:
>It is a special subset of the "Stay off my lawn" crowd: the one that
>demands a strict adherence to rote formula. There is a short list of
>acceptable responses to "Thank you." The sin of "No problem" is not
>its literal meaning, but its not being on that list.
At least not in common English, more or less. Saying "it was nothing"
or the equivalent is a common response to an expression of thanks, and
no one is silly enough to insist that it's stupid or rude because it
obviously wasn't nothing.
>Anyone who reads and understands Miss Manners knows that intent
>matters in etiquette, and indeed matters much more than form. If the
>intent of that "No problem" is to make a polite response, then it
>succeeds.
It does not bother me in the least.
nj"and stay the hell of my lawn, freak"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
John Hatpin
How does Miss Manners view "yw"?
--
John Hatpin
http://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/
Opus the Penguin
> "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrh...@acme.com> wrote in
> news:a6f46fd9-b59e-4249...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.c
> om:
>
>> On Nov 5, 2:01�pm, hy...@lactose.homelinux.net (hymie!) wrote:
>>> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
>>> � Jon M <faceonm...@omnicast.net>, who said:
>>>
>>> >Fifty one through 100:
>>> >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-rest
>>> >auran ...
>>>
>>> I had a friend for whom this was probably his biggest pet peeve:
>>>
>>> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
>>
>> I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions.
>> But I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is
>> handed a fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change,
>> returning with the $8.72 to find an empty table. The customers
>> are long gone, having intended all along to leave the change as a
>> tip. The server could have saved a trip, had they mentioned this
>> when they handed him the fifty. Hence the incentive to ask The
>> Question.
>
> Among the rules for customers: say "keep the change" or "could I
> get change, please?" so the waitron doesn't need to ask.
>
Mmmm. I'd feel like a jerk saying "Could I get change, please?" It
seems to imply that the server might just walk off with my money.
"Keep the change" is less obnoxious, but it sounds like I'm fishing
for thanks. I'm a little more comfortable with "I don't need any
change" for some reason.
N Jill Marsh
<RemoveThi...@gmailAndThisToo.com> wrote:
>
>How does Miss Manners view "yw"?
I've never had any say "yw", so I am going to assume you're asking
about "you're welcome". Miss Manners is American, and "you're
welcome" is an entirely acceptable convention in American culture.
Anyone who tells you otherwise has been terrorized by overseas
xenophobia.
nj"former victim of overseas xenophobia"m
--
Gentle Reader,
"You're welcome." There is nothing improper about it. Miss Manners
begs you not to mess with the conventions, which are indeed different
in different languages but nevertheless feel right where they are
used. Lately, other responses have crept in, notably "No problem" and
"Thank YOU," which annoy those who then analyze them for meaning. The
beauty of conventions is that you can accept them without having to
think about them.
Dover Beach
news:Xns9CBA96FF7E4B6op...@127.0.0.1:
>
> Mmmm. I'd feel like a jerk saying "Could I get change, please?" It
> seems to imply that the server might just walk off with my money.
> "Keep the change" is less obnoxious, but it sounds like I'm fishing
> for thanks. I'm a little more comfortable with "I don't need any
> change" for some reason.
>
I think you're right.
--
Dover
John Hatpin
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:53:38 +0000, John Hatpin
> <RemoveThi...@gmailAndThisToo.com> wrote:
> >
> >How does Miss Manners view "yw"?
>
> I've never had any say "yw", so I am going to assume you're asking
> about "you're welcome". Miss Manners is American, and "you're
> welcome" is an entirely acceptable convention in American culture.
> Anyone who tells you otherwise has been terrorized by overseas
> xenophobia.
>
> nj"former victim of overseas xenophobia"m
Sorry, no, I wasn't asking about "you're welcome" (or even "your
welcome", which I see a lot). I was asking about "yw", but I was only
joking.
I'll admit I use it myself in text chat, but only when the other
person has typed "ty".
John Hatpin
When I tip a cab driver, and I'm paying (say) a �5 note for a �3.60
ride, I'll usually say "call it four" as I hand the note over. A lot
of people in the same situation would wait for their change, then hand
some of it back, which seems silly to me.
Snidely
wrote:
> The server's place is to, erm... serve. It is not the patron's
> job to cater to the server.
They are performing a service, but it is no longer appropriate to
treat them as a servant. A few casual politenesses on the customer's
part go a long way.
/dps
jeff_wisnia
> In article
> <8bf4f49a-165a-48df...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
> Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> We persuaded her that
>>the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
>>the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
>>meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
>>finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
>>finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
>>kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
>>finding it elsewhere.
>
>
> There used to be--probably still is--a restaurant in Boston famous for,
> among other things, the (pushy? informal?) personality of the
> waitresses.
>
http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Reviews/320/durginpark
Jeff (Who's been enjoying eating there for over 55 years.)
David J. Martin
> In article
> <8bf4f49a-165a-48df...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
> Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We persuaded her that
>> the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
>> the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
>> meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
>> finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
>> finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
>> kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
>> finding it elsewhere.
>
> There used to be--probably still is--a restaurant in Boston famous for,
> among other things, the (pushy? informal?) personality of the
> waitresses.
>
Durgin Park Grumpy, brusque, bossy waiters. As far as I know, it's
still part of the ambiance.
David
David J. Martin
So, if the change is the waiter's to keep, isn't he going to need to
break the fifty anyway?
I think waiters should be aware of things that can piss off customers,
and that question is clearly one of them. Rather than risk a diminished
tip, I'd say it's in their best interest to make the change and make
that long trip back to the table.
David
David J. Martin
> Jon M wrote:
>
>> From the New York Times:
>>
>> Rules one through fifty:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>
>>
>> Fifty one through 100:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>
>>
>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
>> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>>
>> Jon M
>
> My personal unfavorite wasn't on the list (or I missed it).
>
> It's a server 40+ years younger than my wife and I appearing at our
> table and asking, "Do you GUYS know what you want?"
>
> The earlier etymology of the term "guy" says it for me:
>
> "fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or
> poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes," leader
> of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament (Nov. 5,
> 1605), paraded through the streets by children on the anniversary of the
> conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr., related to It. Guido, lit.
> "leader," of Gmc. origin
Ah, another entry from the "stay off my lawn" crowd. I'm sure the
waiter intends to offend by calling the two of you "grotesquely dressed"
people. Do all attempts at informality bother you?
It may be I'm just used to the generic "guys", but if the restaurant is
not formal, I don't expect the staff to be.
>
> My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
> piercings (earings are acceptable of course). Why any restaurant's
> management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
> baffles me.
I agree that piercings that affect the tongue, mouth, or lips are
off-putting in waitstaff. If I lived in Austin I'd probably be more
used to it.
David
N Jill Marsh
A few casual politeness on the employer's part to a servant go a long
way as well.
It is never appropriate to abuse a power imbalance.
nj"on either side of the table"m
Mark Brader
>>>> I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions.
>>>> But I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is
>>>> handed a fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change,
>>>> returning with the $8.72 to find an empty table. The customers
>>>> are long gone, having intended all along to leave the change as a
If I'm going to do that, I either say "keep the change" or I don't
put down the $50 bill until I'm already standing up to leave the
table. But of course *they* don't know that's my practice.
I think the right answer to "Do you want change?" is "*Now* I do",
but I don't think I've ever had the gall to say it.
"John Hatpin":
> When I tip a cab driver, and I'm paying (say) a �5 note for a �3.60
> ride, I'll usually say "call it four" as I hand the note over.
When I've tried giving the total I want to pay, I've usually found
it confuses them. Now I tell them how much change I want (in this
case "�1 back, please"); this seems to work better. I also do this
in restaurants in analogous situations -- the bill is $37.37, say,
I give the waiter a $50, and I say "$5 back, please". In places
that do a lot of cash business, this also saves my time -- often they
have the $5 in their pockets and give it to me immediately, before
processing the bill.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Most people are other people. Their thoughts
m...@vex.net | are someone else's opinions..." --Oscar Wilde
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
>> I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions. But
>> I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is handed a
>> fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change, returning with
David J. Martin:
> So, if the change is the waiter's to keep, isn't he going to need to
> break the fifty anyway?
*If* the restaurant expects him to take the tip immediately in cash.
This may well be common but I have no idea how close to universal it is.
--
Mark Brader "Although I have not seen any mention of SoftQuad
Toronto or HoTMetaL in the magazine, it is certainly
m...@vex.net worth while reading." -- Selwyn Wener
Veronique
> "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> writes:
>
> >In fairness, the writer does say that these are his rules for a
> >specific restaurant he is opening. But they certainly do carry a
> >sense of he thinks this is the Right Way to do things.
>
> On the other hand the list has taught me just what's meant by
> ordering something ``neat''. I'd figured that as long as I didn't drink
> stuff stronger than Cherry Vanilla Diet Dr Pepper it was all right if I
> was vague about it.
I thought it meant I didn't want my drink in a dribble glass.
V., live and learn, die and forget it all.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Veronique
I suppose the default really is the customer saying, "Keep the change"
and if no instructions given, the change returned without question.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Veronique
> jeff_wisnia wrote:
> > My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
> > piercings (earings are acceptable of course). Why any restaurant's
> > management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
> > baffles me.
>
> I agree that piercings that affect the tongue, mouth, or lips are
> off-putting in waitstaff. If I lived in Austin I'd probably be more
> used to it.
If you lived in Santa Cruz, you wouldn't ever eat out unless you were
used to it.
jeff_wisnia
Amen to that.
I make it a point to learn the server's name and use it several times
during the meal when addressing them. Like a simple, "Thank you
Marilyn", when someting I requested is brought to me.
I feel that lets the server know I think they're a person, and not just
a necessary evil of the restaurant dining experience.
Jeff
Veronique
wrote:
> My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
> piercings (earings are acceptable of course). Why any restaurant's
> management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
> baffles me.
Because, if not the majority, it's at least as much of a norm as
pierced ears? Around here, at least.
Dana Carpender
>>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
>>> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>> his wallet, it will be like a football fumble drill, since presumably
>> whoever gains control gets to keep it.
>
>
>
> The rules are a weird compendium, combining common sense ("Just bring
> the change") with preferences that customers may or may not, er,
> prefer, with overall management issues (combining bar and food bill,
> or not). With 100 rules, there's something for everyone to love and
> hate.
>
>
> It did remind me of going to a BBQ place on Fillmore Street in San
> Francisco back in the day; I was the lone vegetarian among five
> friends and had right of refusal but said what the heck, I can order
> sides and they can order meat and we'll all be happy. Except that the
> waitress, an older woman who looked rode hard and put away wet,
> snapped at me and said I had to order meat when I (the 4th to order)
> the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
> the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
> meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
> finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
> finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
> kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
> finding it elsewhere.
>
>
I think I've told this story here, but it's apropos:
Years ago, my then-fiance took a ten-day contract at the Super Collider,
trying to decide whether he wanted to take a permanent gig. (Thank
heavens he didn't; funds were cut off less than a year later.) The last
night we were in Dallas, the folks from his office took us out to dinner
at a popular Louisiana-style seafood restaurant. I'm not a big fish
person, so I ordered the only chicken dish on the menu.
The waiter argued with me. He told me I *had* to order fish, the
restaurant was all about fish, everyone ate fish. He wouldn't bring me
the chicken. Etc. This went on for nearly five minutes, until I looked
straight at him, not smiling, and said, "Do you *want* a tip?"
I think he thought he was being charming or funny or *something*, but he
was just being a crappy waiter.
Dana
Snidely
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:31:05 -0800 (PST), Snidely
>
> >On Nov 5, 12:39 pm, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid>
> >wrote:
> >> The server's place is to, erm... serve. It is not the patron's
> >> job to cater to the server.
>
> >They are performing a service, but it is no longer appropriate to
> >treat them as a servant. A few casual politenesses on the customer's
> >part go a long way.
>
> A few casual politeness on the employer's part to a servant go a long
> way as well.
>
> It is never appropriate to abuse a power imbalance.
>
> nj"on either side of the table"m
Good point.
/dps
Mac
> David Friedman wrote:
> > In article
> > Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> We persuaded her that
> >>the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
> >>the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
> >>meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
> >>finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
> >>finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
> >>kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
> >>finding it elsewhere.
>
> > There used to be--probably still is--a restaurant in Boston famous for,
> > among other things, the (pushy? informal?) personality of the
> > waitresses.
>
> http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Reviews/320/durginpark
>
> Jeff (Who's been enjoying eating there for over 55 years.)
In addition to Durgin Park, the No Name used to be like that. I've
heard it has changed.
Dover Beach
news:hcvfie$c5r$1...@news.tamu.edu:
> jeff_wisnia wrote:
>>
>> The earlier etymology of the term "guy" says it for me:
>>
>> "fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or
>> poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes,"
>> leader of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament
>> (Nov. 5, 1605), paraded through the streets by children on the
>> anniversary of the conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr.,
>> related to It. Guido, lit. "leader," of Gmc. origin
>
> Ah, another entry from the "stay off my lawn" crowd. I'm sure the
> waiter intends to offend by calling the two of you "grotesquely
> dressed" people. Do all attempts at informality bother you?
>
> It may be I'm just used to the generic "guys", but if the restaurant
> is not formal, I don't expect the staff to be.
>
Thirty-five years ago, in junior high, if one of the girls in my social
set had something important to tell the rest, she'd say "You guys! You
guys, listen up!" "Guys" has been generic for "people" for so long that
I can't get offended by it.
--
Dover
Heather
It must be some sort of miracle that Australia has so many successful
restaurants.
--
Heather
jeff_wisnia
Many still do...For example, I strongly object to someone I've never met
ringing me up on the phone, usually trying to sell me something, and
calling me by my first name before I've invited them to do so.
I was raised to show respect for other people by calling them "Mr. or
Mrs. Lastname" until a level of informality developed appropriate for
our switching to a first name basis.
And yes, I'm quite certain that the longer I live the more in the
minority my views will become.
OTOH, I'm glad to be living in a mostly free country which allows me to
continue to maintain and express my own standards of politeness and
"proper conduct" without fear of my being strung up on a nearby lampost.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
>
QueBarbara
wrote:
Dick's Last Resort is known for that, too. Not really my cup of tea,
and the food's not that good, either.
--
QueBarbara
Boron Elgar
wrote:
This is why I pay with a credit card. I am never placed in the awful
position of self debate and anguish over what to say or do at the end
of the meal in a restaurant. I hate leaving cash behind on the table
and just getting up to leave; I sit around until a server retrieves
it..
It is no faster, but it is so much simpler to just place the plastic
down, get the piece of paper, add on the tip and sign my name. Whew. I
hide behind American Express. Besides, I get cash back.
Boron
plausible prose man
ta.
plausible prose man
wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:43:16 -0800 (PST), Mac <ANMCC...@ALUM.WPI.EDU>
Also, the portions are too small.
plausible prose man
wrote:
> Dover Beach wrote:
>
> > "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote in
> >news:a6f46fd9-b59e-4249...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > On Nov 5, 2:01 pm, hy...@lactose.homelinux.net (hymie!) wrote:
> > >> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
> > >> Jon M <faceonm...@omnicast.net>, who said:
>
> > >> >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran
> > >> >...
>
> > >> I had a friend for whom this was probably his biggest pet peeve:
>
> > >> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
>
> > > I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions. But
> > > I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is handed a
> > > fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change, returning with
> > > the $8.72 to find an empty table. The customers are long gone, having
> > > intended all along to leave the change as a tip. The server could
> > > have saved a trip, had they mentioned this when they handed him the
> > > fifty. Hence the incentive to ask The Question.
>
> > Among the rules for customers: say "keep the change" or "could I get
> > change, please?" so the waitron doesn't need to ask.
>
> job to cater to the server.
I bus my own table. Really; I stack up all my plates, put all the
wrappers and napkins and rings on top, put the silverware in the
glasses, all nice and ready to go.
As a result, more than a couple of waitresses have shown me their nana.
plausible prose man
The other night, I tipped a waitress something like thirty percent,
in cash, and added a little "thanks, I appreciate all your hard work."
I thought she was going to cry, and then kiss me on the mouth.
plausible prose man
Yeah, you know...I bet the average person is socialized to a point
where they'd fall for a passive aggressive trick like that.
Sometimes, I have the opposite problem; I get change when I don't
want it. Often, I pay the tab with my card, and then put in a bit of
folding money, you know, for the effort. That's the kind of thing us
plutocrats go in for, and I am every inch the gent.
Well, so every so often, the girl applies the money to the tab, and
then runs the difference on my card. So, I have to ruin the whole
effect by explaining what I was up to, there, and...you know, not what
I was going for.
plausible prose man
I think its has something to do with the Australian propensity for
strong drink.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> I think I've told this story here, but it's apropos:
>
> Years ago, my then-fiance took a ten-day contract at the Super Collider,
> trying to decide whether he wanted to take a permanent gig. (Thank
> heavens he didn't; funds were cut off less than a year later.) The last
> night we were in Dallas, the folks from his office took us out to dinner
> at a popular Louisiana-style seafood restaurant. I'm not a big fish
> person, so I ordered the only chicken dish on the menu.
>
> The waiter argued with me. He told me I *had* to order fish, the
> restaurant was all about fish, everyone ate fish. He wouldn't bring me
> the chicken. Etc. This went on for nearly five minutes, until I looked
> straight at him, not smiling, and said, "Do you *want* a tip?"
>
> I think he thought he was being charming or funny or *something*, but he
> was just being a crappy waiter.
I had an experience vaguely related to that which I found hilarious. It
was when I was on the Executive Board for AIPG and we had just finished
an all-day meeting which lasted from 8 am until 6 pm, and then the
entire board went out to dinner at a French restaurant in Arvada, about
5 miles from where we were meeting. The restaurant manager had a room
set aside for us and waited on us personally. Rather than give us menus,
he recited what was available that evening, ending with "and a dead
duck". When it came my turn to order, I hesitated, saying that I wasn't
quite sure which dish to choose. He looked at me sternly and said
"You're having the dead duck". And I did.
Charles "it was very good" D.
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
Just like it is a miracle that any Brits are still alive, what with them
driving on the wrong side of the road, you'd think traffic accidents
would have done them in.
Xho
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
> Dover Beach (moon.b...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> Among the rules for customers: say "keep the change" or "could I
>> get change, please?" so the waitron doesn't need to ask.
>>
>
> seems to imply that the server might just walk off with my money.
To me, it used to imply that the amount of change in paper currency
would be a multiple of five, but I want some ones back instead of just
higher denominations.
> "Keep the change" is less obnoxious, but it sounds like I'm fishing
> for thanks. I'm a little more comfortable with "I don't need any
> change" for some reason.
I never have need to deal with it anymore, I always pay with plastic at
sit-down places.
Xho
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
>
> When I tip a cab driver, and I'm paying (say) a �5 note for a �3.60
> of people in the same situation would wait for their change, then hand
> some of it back, which seems silly to me.
You have cheap hacks over there.
Xho
Snidely
The miracle is they aren't in New York, Boston, or LA.
/dps
John Hatpin
Maybe - that example's a bit less than the fare for about a mile, in a
"red plate" (private hire) cab. "Black plate" cabs charge more, but
you can flag them down in the street.
--
John Hatpin
http://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/
M. Shirley Chong
> S.F. is an anomaly. I'm recalling a tale relayed by Herb
> Caen,(previously googled, with no luck), where a dining party had
> such terrible service at a pretty up-scale restaurant (snooty
> waiters are usually the norm in such places, but x10 in S.F.)
> that they walked out giving _zero_ tip.
>
> Apparently the waiter _chased them out on the street and demanded
> to know the reason. They explained in no uncertain terms that his
> level of service deserved -no_ tip.
>
> His rejoinder, "Well what do you expect when you tip like that!"
>
> ???!!??
>
> ostensibly
Heh. My father did something similar and I witnessed it.
It was a nice restaurant somewhere in Chicago in 1967. The server
didn't like something about us or just didn't know his job because
the service was abysmal. The worst part was when he tipped over the
pan with the cherries flambe, scraped them up off the floor and
offered it to my mother.
Now, my father is a generally easy going, mild mannered Buddhist but
there are some things that will get him going and top on that list
is any sort of deliberate rudeness towards my mother.
He left two dollar bills on the table as a tip on a bill that was
over $200 (and this was back in the 60s, so that was worth something).
The waiter followed us out to the entrance, took my father aside,
and held out the bills saying "this is completely inadequate as a
tip!" in a huffy voice. My father said calmly "oh, you don't like
it?" and took the bills out of his hand.
Then my father escorted us out.
I was kind of freaked out because this didn't match anything in my
previous experience but my parents started laughing hysterically and
every time one of them started to explain it, they started laughing
again. To this day, "this is completely inadequate" is enough to
make us giggle.
Shirley
Dana Carpender
Ed Debevic's in Chicago was like that, too. Sometimes the waiter/tress
would sit down next to you in the booth.
Dana
Opus the Penguin
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:45:22 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Peter Ward (m...@privacy.net) wrote:
>>
>>> Jon M says...
>>>>
>>>> From the New York Times:
>>>>
>>>> Rules one through fifty:
>>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-rest
>>>> au rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>>>
>>>> Fifty one through 100:
>>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-rest
>>>> au rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>>>
>>>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for
>>>> catsup to be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the
>>>> waiter thought it was, even briefly. What if I decide I want
>>>> tartar sauce, too?
>>>
>>> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49
>>> should read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you
>>> don't need it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on
>>> 56, part of 95, and no. 96 redundant.
>>>
>>
>>
>>It also makes it a certainty that he will not turn a profit and
>>his restaurant will close.
>
>
> It must be some sort of miracle that Australia has so many
> successful restaurants.
>
Why is that?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Heather
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
We don't tip here.
--
Heather
John Hatpin
We wouldn't tip here either if I were in charge.
In George Orwell's 'Down And Out In Paris And London', he describes
the system in Paris, whereby waiters would receive no income at all
from some restaurants, but would subsist entirely on tips. And some
of the more upmarket restaurants would actually charge waiters to work
there, and had yet no shortage of staff.
Bill Turlock
ok
Bill Turlock
Most Excellent!
Bill Turlock
>
> Veronique wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 10:11 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:> >>> Rules one through fifty:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restauran...
> >>> Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
> >>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> >>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> >>> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
> >> the floor � be it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce." If a guest drops
> >> his wallet, it will be like a football fumble drill, since presumably
> >> whoever gains control gets to keep it.
> >
> >
> >
> > The rules are a weird compendium, combining common sense ("Just bring
> > the change") with preferences that customers may or may not, er,
> > prefer, with overall management issues (combining bar and food bill,
> > or not). With 100 rules, there's something for everyone to love and
> > hate.
> >
> >
> > It did remind me of going to a BBQ place on Fillmore Street in San
> > Francisco back in the day; I was the lone vegetarian among five
> > friends and had right of refusal but said what the heck, I can order
> > sides and they can order meat and we'll all be happy. Except that the
> > waitress, an older woman who looked rode hard and put away wet,
> > snapped at me and said I had to order meat when I (the 4th to order)
> > said I just wanted coleslaw and another side. We persuaded her that
> > the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
> > the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
> > meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
> > finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
> > finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
> > kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
> > finding it elsewhere.
> >
> >
>
>
> Years ago, my then-fiance took a ten-day contract at the Super Collider,
> trying to decide whether he wanted to take a permanent gig. (Thank
> heavens he didn't; funds were cut off less than a year later.) The last
> night we were in Dallas, the folks from his office took us out to dinner
> at a popular Louisiana-style seafood restaurant. I'm not a big fish
> person, so I ordered the only chicken dish on the menu.
>
> The waiter argued with me. He told me I *had* to order fish, the
> restaurant was all about fish, everyone ate fish. He wouldn't bring me
> the chicken. Etc. This went on for nearly five minutes, until I looked
> straight at him, not smiling, and said, "Do you *want* a tip?"
>
> I think he thought he was being charming or funny or *something*, but he
> was just being a crappy waiter.
>
FSVO "charming "
Robert Crowe
On 5 Nov 2009 15:44:06 -0500, the alleged Joseph Nebus, may have posted
the following, to alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>"Richard R. Hershberger" <rrh...@acme.com> writes:
>
>>In fairness, the writer does say that these are his rules for a
>>specific restaurant he is opening. But they certainly do carry
>>a sense of he thinks this is the Right Way to do things.
>
>On the other hand the list has taught me just what's meant by
>ordering something "neat". I'd figured that as long as I didn't
>drink stuff stronger than Cherry Vanilla Diet Dr. Pepper it was
>all right if I was vague about it.
Asking for whisk[e]y and water can get you several different
things, but asking for Bourbon and a water-back will, usually,
get you specific drink.
Regards,
Rob "In the same glass, Miss?" Crowe
--
"...or better yet, use the Jack Daniel's `shot and a chaser' glass."
An honest admission of the true nature of Tennessee whiskey.
-- Bushido in alt.drinks.scotch-whisky
Bill Turlock
> > news:a6f46fd9-b59e-4249...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.c
> > om:
> >
> >> On Nov 5, 2:01 pm, hy...@lactose.homelinux.net (hymie!) wrote:
> >>> In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
> >>> Jon M <faceonm...@omnicast.net>, who said:
> >>>
> >>> >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-rest
> >>> >auran ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change.
> >>
> >> I agree that the question is poor form, as it makes presumptions.
> >> But I can see the argument from the server's perspective. He is
> >> handed a fifty on a $41.28 bill. He goes off and makes change,
> >> returning with the $8.72 to find an empty table. The customers
> >> are long gone, having intended all along to leave the change as a
> >> tip. The server could have saved a trip, had they mentioned this
> >> when they handed him the fifty. Hence the incentive to ask The
> >> Question.
> >
> > get change, please?" so the waitron doesn't need to ask.
> >
>
> Mmmm. I'd feel like a jerk saying "Could I get change, please?" It
> seems to imply that the server might just walk off with my money.
> for thanks. I'm a little more comfortable with "I don't need any
> change" for some reason.
I used to occasionally make the server sit down and explain to
them what was wrong with their ploy.
Tonight I ate at the Old Spaghetti Factory (Shut! Up!). I ate off
the senior menu, and the bill was just under $10. I put a ten in
the folder, with a bit of the green edge sticking out, as is the
custom so they can tell when you're ready to have it taken. She
came by a bit later, and out came the ususal, "Will you be
needing change?"
No, just go ahead and keep the 18� for your tip. No, I didn't say
that. I looked at her, my mouth moved soundlessly, and finally I
just shrugged or something. She walked away.
See the problem with this is that it's almost always going to
make one or the other of us (or both) feel awkward and/or angry.
She hadn't even looked inside the folder. If she'd thought about
it, she'd have known that a ten by itself wouldn't have provided
a tip. If there'd been a twenty, she'd have been assuming a 100%
tip. I just let her take it, read some more of my book, and did
finally leave an adequate tip.
Bill Turlock
>
> On Nov 5, 12:39 pm, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > The server's place is to, erm... serve. It is not the patron's
> > job to cater to the server.
>
> They are performing a service, but it is no longer appropriate to
> treat them as a servant. A few casual politenesses on the customer's
> part go a long way.
>
"One less trip"??!? If she'd brought the straw for my iced tea,
she could have saved heself a trip. sheesh! I'm not treating
anybody as a servant.
rroger
wrote:
> jeff_wisnia wrote:
>
> > Jon M wrote:
>
> > > From the New York Times:
>
> > > Rules one through fifty:
> > >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> > >http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> > > My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> > > be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> > > was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>
>
> > My personal unfavorite wasn't on the list (or I missed it).
>
> > It's a server 40+ years younger than my wife and I appearing at our
> > table and asking, "Do you GUYS know what you want?"
>
> > The earlier etymology of the term "guy" says it for me:
>
> > "fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or
> > poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes," leader
> > of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament (Nov. 5,
> > 1605), paraded through the streets by children on the anniversary of the
> > conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr., related to It. Guido, lit.
> > "leader," of Gmc. origin
>
> > My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
> > piercings (earings are acceptable of course). Why any restaurant's
> > management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
> > baffles me.
>
> > Jeff
>
> good^W^W^W^^W help is hard to find
>
> Bill "especially in a recession" Turlock
What is your "WWWW" thing?
Bill Turlock
It's "crtl-W", tongue-in-cheek "backspace & erase" from the
pre-Windows days of word processors
rroger
> From the New York Times:
>
> Rules one through fifty:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>
> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>
> Jon M
Concerning # 58: why *WOULD* some bring judgement with ketchup, e.t.c.?
rroger
Okay, what did you mean by it/what were you using it for?
Mac
> On Nov 6, 1:09 am, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid>
> wrote
> > > > good^W^W^W^^W help is hard to find
>
> > > > Bill "especially in a recession" Turlock
>
> > > What is your "WWWW" thing?
>
> > It's "crtl-W", tongue-in-cheek "backspace & erase" from the
> > pre-Windows days of word processors
>
> Okay, what did you mean by it/what were you using it for?
Back in days when giants trod upon the land, before, even, the Age of
Ice Weasels, or the lamentable Firky the Snuh, there were ways of
communicating in which all of one's keystrokes showed up, in real
time, or could be excavated from a saved message. So, i the started
to type something, and then changed your mind and backspaced over it,
it would show, and then go away. It would look kinda like this:
"listen^W^W^W^^WListen, only a scrofulous luetic ^W^W^W^^W misinformed
person could believe that. Did your mother have any kids who weren't
retarde^W^W^W^^W^W^W^W^^W^W^W^W^^W you ever consider the other side's
position?
Imitating it is meant to be humorous.
Mark Steese
news:MPG.255d31336...@news.enta.net:
> Jon M says...
>>
>> From the New York Times:
>>
>> Rules one through fifty:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant
>> -staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>
>> Fifty one through 100:
>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant
>> -staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>
>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought
>> it was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>
> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49 should
> read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you don't need
> it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on 56, part of 95,
> and no. 96 redundant.
By that reasoning, the counter help at McDonald's must be better paid than
most waiters.
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the
banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
Bill Turlock
hot dogs:chicago
Peter Ward
> > What is your "WWWW" thing?
> It's "crtl-W", tongue-in-cheek "backspace & erase" from the
> pre-Windows days of word processors
But you wrote one word then deleted 4. Character delete was "^H".
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop.
- Dara O'Briain
Peter Ward
>
> Heather wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:30:00 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> > <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Heather (redbo...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:45:22 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> > >> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Peter Ward (m...@privacy.net) wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49
> > >>>> should read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you
> > >>>> don't need it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on
> > >>>> 56, part of 95, and no. 96 redundant.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>It also makes it a certainty that he will not turn a profit and
> > >>>his restaurant will close.
> > >>
> > >> It must be some sort of miracle that Australia has so many
> > >> successful restaurants.
> > >
> > >Why is that?
> >
> > We don't tip here.
>
> We wouldn't tip here either if I were in charge.
What he said.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
You couldn't pay me enough to make me be nice to most people.
- QueBarbara
Mark Brader
>>> When I tip a cab driver, and I'm paying (say) a �5 note for a �3.60
>>> ride, I'll usually say "call it four" as I hand the note over. A lot
>>> of people in the same situation would wait for their change, then hand
>>> some of it back, which seems silly to me.
"Xho Jingleheimerschmidt":
>> You have cheap hacks over there.
"John Hatpin":
> Maybe - that example's a bit less than the fare for about a mile, in a
> "red plate" (private hire) cab. "Black plate" cabs charge more, but
> you can flag them down in the street.
Only one type of cab here. That �3.60 equates to $6.35 here, which would
get you 1.55 km (if you didn't have to wait for any red lights or other
traffic delays) or 0.96 mile. That's $4 for the first and 25� for each
additional stage of 155 m (508.5 ft).
--
Mark Brader "If the right people don't have power...
Toronto the wrong people get it... ordinary voters!"
m...@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER
My text in this article is in the public domain.
rroger
wrote:
I like ketchup on hot dogs; to each his/her own. In a sit down and be
waited on non hot dog place, my same question as shown above?
Patrick M Geahan
> Ed Debevic's in Chicago was like that, too. Sometimes the waiter/tress
> would sit down next to you in the booth.
Still is. So-so food, way overpriced, utterly ridiculous bar prices,
and amazingly rude waitstaff. What's amazing, and where I applaud
Debevic's for their brass balls, is that they've convinced people
they should pay more and wait in line for shitty service.
--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@thepatcave.org---ICQ:3784715------
"You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time." - spa...@pffcu.com, a.f.c-a
Roy Smith
news:Xns9CBAE799...@188.40.43.213...
> Peter Ward <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:MPG.255d31336...@news.enta.net:
>
>> Jon M says...
>>>
>>> From the New York Times:
>>>
>>> Rules one through fifty:
>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant
>>> -staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>>
>>> Fifty one through 100:
>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant
>>> -staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>>
>>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
>>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought
>>> it was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>>
>> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no. 49 should
>> read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough that you don't need
>> it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical comment on 56, part of 95,
>> and no. 96 redundant.
>
> By that reasoning, the counter help at McDonald's must be better paid than
> most waiters.
> --
They are. Counter help at McDonald's receive (slightly) more than minimum
wage. They also get benefits; paid vacation, sick leave, subsidized medical
insurance and participation in a 501k plan. Upscale restaurants pay the
wait staff about $2.50 an hour with no benefits.
Roy
rroger
> "Mark Steese" <mark_ste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Is that *ALL* employees or just full time employees?
hymie!
>My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
>piercings (earings are acceptable of course).
Much like anything else, it's all about the presentation. A girl I
know wears a very small nose stud. It's sort of above and behind her
nostril. I probably wouldn't even notice it except it shines when she
sits if the light. That's (to me) no big deal.
But I was somewhere once, probably a Borders cafe, and the guy at the
counter was just covered in large piercings -- eyebrows, nose, cheeks,
chin, lip. I probably should have said something but I didn't.
> Why any restaurant's
>management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
>baffles me.
Sadly, many of today's youth seems to think that dressing for work falls
under "free speech", and I suspect that companies would rather not get sued
by their ex-employees, whether justified or not.
--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymie hy...@lactose.homelinux.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hymie!
In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
Mac <ANMC...@ALUM.WPI.EDU>, who said:
>> On Nov 6, 1:09 am, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid>
>> wrote
>
>> > > > good^W^W^W^^W help is hard to find
>>
>> > > > Bill "especially in a recession" Turlock
>>
>> > > What is your "WWWW" thing?
>>
>> > It's "crtl-W", tongue-in-cheek "backspace & erase" from the
>> > pre-Windows days of word processors
For what it's worth, ^H is backspace-and-erase . ^W is delete-word.
S. Checker
> rroger wrote:
>
>> Concerning # 58: why *WOULD* some bring judgement with ketchup, e.t.c.?
>
> hot dogs:chicago
Also "Chef": Salt and pepper.
At Le Frou Frou, the chef is presumed to have cooked each item
perfectly, with seasonings applied at the proper time. Asking for salt
and pepper indicates that you don't understand his culinary genius.
--
There was once a man who, not being able to find any other fault with
his coal, complained that there were too many prehistoric toads in it.
-- Mark Twain
S. Checker
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:43:16 -0800 (PST), Mac <ANMC...@ALUM.WPI.EDU>
> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 5, 1:31?pm, jeff_wisnia <jwis...@dumpthisconversent.net> wrote:
>>> David Friedman wrote:
>>>
>>> > There used to be--probably still is--a restaurant in Boston famous for,
>>> > among other things, the (pushy? informal?) personality of the
>>> > waitresses.
>>>
>>> http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Reviews/320/durginpark
>>>
>>> Jeff (Who's been enjoying eating there for over 55 years.)
>>
>>In addition to Durgin Park, the No Name used to be like that. I've
>>heard it has changed.
>
> Dick's Last Resort is known for that, too. Not really my cup of tea,
> and the food's not that good, either.
I expect varying levels of pleasantness depending on the locale but it
wouldn't interest me either. What is it - grouchy tourism? "Look Muffin
- that's real sputum in my coffee!"
--
Get ready because now your life will be a living hell, with the specter
of this one post always over your shoulder. Forever and ever. Never
again will you be able to tell someone they are wrong - because you were
wrong once. -- Kim explains afca etiquette.
S. Checker
> I make it a point to learn the server's name and use it several times
> during the meal when addressing them. Like a simple, "Thank you
> Marilyn", when someting I requested is brought to me.
>
> I feel that lets the server know I think they're a person, and not just
> a necessary evil of the restaurant dining experience.
Sometimes after dinner I'll sneak into the back and find "Marilyn's"
(just an example) pocketbook, so I can learn her address. I'll make a
copy of her key and then go to her house and clean up a little, maybe
make some tea, and when it's close to the end of her shift, draw a bath
with some fragrant soaps. I'll write a little poetry and then hide in
her closet to watch her delight.
I feel it lets the server know that she will be my wife and carry my
children.
--
I've all my wisdom teeth,
Two up top and two beneath
Dana Carpender
I wouldn't be rude to someone who asked for ketchup with a fine steak or
prime rib, but inwardly I'd raise an eyebrow.
Dana
Dana Carpender
>
> Sadly, many of today's youth seems to think that dressing for work falls
> under "free speech", and I suspect that companies would rather not get sued
> by their ex-employees, whether justified or not.
>
I don't see that freedom of speech applies on the job. You're not free
to curse at customers, tell them the food/product/service/prices are
better down the street, chat to them about your sex life, simply waste
their time with blather, whatever. Any or all of that can get you fired
for cause. So why would clothes fall under "free speech," ignoring
entirely that A) clothing is not speech, and B) dress codes have been
around for a very long while.
Dana
Dana Carpender
> Dana Carpender <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Ed Debevic's in Chicago was like that, too. Sometimes the waiter/tress
>> would sit down next to you in the booth.
>
> Still is. So-so food, way overpriced, utterly ridiculous bar prices,
> and amazingly rude waitstaff. What's amazing, and where I applaud
> Debevic's for their brass balls, is that they've convinced people
> they should pay more and wait in line for shitty service.
>
They used to have a really good chicken pot-pie with puff pastry crust,
but a look at their menu online says it's gone. They do still have the
World's Smallest Hot Fudge Sundae, something I appreciated years ago.
Dana
N Jill Marsh
wrote:
>In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
> jeff_wisnia <jwi...@dumpthisconversent.net>, who said:
>
>>My close second personal peeve is a server wearing any visible body
>>piercings (earings are acceptable of course).
>
>Much like anything else, it's all about the presentation. A girl I
>know wears a very small nose stud. It's sort of above and behind her
>nostril. I probably wouldn't even notice it except it shines when she
>sits if the light. That's (to me) no big deal.
>
>But I was somewhere once, probably a Borders cafe, and the guy at the
>counter was just covered in large piercings -- eyebrows, nose, cheeks,
>chin, lip. I probably should have said something but I didn't.
Good. If they had decent personal hygiene and provided adequate
service, you have no more business complaining about their body
jewelry than you do about the size of their ass. If you don't like
getting served by waiters with big asses, there are usually places in
town that hire based on that requirement.
> Why any restaurant's
>>management permits wearing that stuff, particularly tongue decorations,
>>baffles me.
>
>Sadly, many of today's youth seems to think that dressing for work falls
>under "free speech", and I suspect that companies would rather not get sued
>by their ex-employees, whether justified or not.
Oddly, attitudes in what is acceptable personal appearance change, I
had an elderly relative who thought beards on young men were filthy
and scandalous and utterly inappropriate as respectable working
appearance. She was the same way about dyed hair on girls.
nj"she got over it"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
David J. Martin
> "David J. Martin" <djmarti...@tamu.edu> wrote in
> news:hcvfie$c5r$1...@news.tamu.edu:
>> jeff_wisnia wrote:
>
>>> The earlier etymology of the term "guy" says it for me:
>>>
>>> "fellow," 1847, originally Amer.Eng.; earlier (1836) "grotesquely or
>>> poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes,"
>>> leader of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament
>>> (Nov. 5, 1605), paraded through the streets by children on the
>>> anniversary of the conspiracy. The male proper name is from Fr.,
>>> related to It. Guido, lit. "leader," of Gmc. origin
>> waiter intends to offend by calling the two of you "grotesquely
>> dressed" people. Do all attempts at informality bother you?
>>
>> It may be I'm just used to the generic "guys", but if the restaurant
>> is not formal, I don't expect the staff to be.
>>
>
> Thirty-five years ago, in junior high, if one of the girls in my social
> set had something important to tell the rest, she'd say "You guys! You
> guys, listen up!" "Guys" has been generic for "people" for so long that
> I can't get offended by it.
>
I'm sure I should know this, but where did you grow up. I've heard that
the generic guys was a regional thing, but I don't think that's still true.
David
Jen
> On Nov 5, 10:11 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 11:49 am, Jon M <faceonm...@omnicast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> From the New York Times:
>>> Rules one through fifty:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>>> Fifty one through 100:http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...
>>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for catsup to
>>> be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out the waiter thought it
>>> was, even briefly. What if I decide I want tartar sauce, too?
>> the floor � be it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce." If a guest drops
>> his wallet, it will be like a football fumble drill, since presumably
>> whoever gains control gets to keep it.
>
>
>
> The rules are a weird compendium, combining common sense ("Just bring
> the change") with preferences that customers may or may not, er,
> prefer, with overall management issues (combining bar and food bill,
> or not). With 100 rules, there's something for everyone to love and
> hate.
>
>
> It did remind me of going to a BBQ place on Fillmore Street in San
> Francisco back in the day; I was the lone vegetarian among five
> friends and had right of refusal but said what the heck, I can order
> sides and they can order meat and we'll all be happy. Except that the
> waitress, an older woman who looked rode hard and put away wet,
> snapped at me and said I had to order meat when I (the 4th to order)
> said I just wanted coleslaw and another side. We persuaded her that
> the aggregate total of our order for five people would be well over
> the minimum per person, and she relented...but near the end of the
> meal, when another friend decided she wanted dessert instead of
> finishing her ribs, she was told she couldn't order dessert unless she
> finished the ribs. A joke? The waitress sure didn't seem like she was
> kidding and we ended up not ordering dessert there but walking out and
> finding it elsewhere.
I'm a vegetarian, and not a big eater. I've had restaurants here in
Newcastle refuse to serve me just a starter, even when the place is
empty apart from me. Clearly, it's better to get no income than a small
one. I just snarl and leave.
--
Jen
Yes, Old Orleans, I'm looking at you.
John Hatpin
I think that's lackadaisical, bordering on negligent. After all, how
can you know her daily routine, her likes and dislikes, the way she
thinks, without months of clandestine observation with binoculars,
cameras and hidden microphones? How can you know her innermost
desires and deepest fears without hacking her computer and cell phone
and taking meticulous notes with a multicoloured ballpoint in a
special blue notebook with her name scrawled on the cover surrounded
by crude depictions of the two of you having sex?
Amateurs.
--
John Hatpin
http://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/
Opus the Penguin
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:30:00 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Heather (redbo...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:45:22 GMT, Opus the Penguin
>>> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Peter Ward (m...@privacy.net) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jon M says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the New York Times:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rules one through fifty:
>>>>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-re
>>>>>> st au rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fifty one through 100:
>>>>>> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-re
>>>>>> st au rant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My personal favorite is 41. I didn't expect my request for
>>>>>> catsup to be a problem. It slightly alarms me to find out
>>>>>> the waiter thought it was, even briefly. What if I decide I
>>>>>> want tartar sauce, too?
>>>>>
>>>>> The guy claims he's going to be running a restaurant, so no.
>>>>> 49 should read "Never mention the tip, I'll pay you enough
>>>>> that you don't need it." This makes no. 50, the parenthetical
>>>>> comment on 56, part of 95, and no. 96 redundant.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It also makes it a certainty that he will not turn a profit and
>>>>his restaurant will close.
>>>
>>>
>>> It must be some sort of miracle that Australia has so many
>>> successful restaurants.
>>>
>>
>>Why is that?
>
>
> We don't tip here.
>
>
Then it's not a problem for any one restaurant to have that policy.
All the wait staff in all the restaurants are paid on that
assumption. No miracle about it. My statement still applies to the
US.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Dover Beach
> Dover Beach wrote:
>>
>> Thirty-five years ago, in junior high, if one of the girls in my
>> social set had something important to tell the rest, she'd say "You
>> guys! You guys, listen up!" "Guys" has been generic for "people" for
>> so long that I can't get offended by it.
>>
>
> I'm sure I should know this, but where did you grow up. I've heard
> that the generic guys was a regional thing, but I don't think that's
> still true.
>
>
San Francisco Bay Area.
--
Dover
plausible prose man
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:30:00 GMT, Opus the Penguin
>
>
>
>
>
This is apparently becoming less true all the time, especially in the
larger cities or among younger people.
I very much enjoy tipping, as it enables my inner plutocrat to come
out.