wallpaper parity question
Rich Clancey
bottom first? Is Asian wallpaper any different?
These are not idle questions. A friend of mine and her
decorator are at odds over the issue, and she doesn't want her house
wallpapered upside down. I say if you can't tell it doesn't matter,
but she says she wants it done right.
--
-- rich clancey
Stars twinkle above,
We twinkle below.
r...@world.std.com rcla...@massart.edu
Tim Robinson
news:FMoEC...@world.std.com...
> Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
> bottom first? Is Asian wallpaper any different?
>
> These are not idle questions. A friend of mine and her
> decorator are at odds over the issue, and she doesn't want her house
> wallpapered upside down. I say if you can't tell it doesn't matter,
> but she says she wants it done right.
Reminds me of the (only funny) scene in "Se7en" where the wife of the slain
lawyer looks at an abstract painting on the wall and announces that it's
upside-down. The two main characters look at each other as if to ask "how
the hell can you tell?"
--
Tim Robinson
timt...@ionet.net
"Fast, better, cheaper -- pick any two" - Old Engineering Proverb
Lalbert1
>Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
>bottom first? Is Asian wallpaper any different?
>
> These are not idle questions. A friend of mine and her
>decorator are at odds over the issue, and she doesn't want her house
>wallpapered upside down. I say if you can't tell it doesn't matter,
>but she says she wants it done right.
>
>
All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role first.
That was true whether or not it was a random design, or one that had a definite
top-bottom orientation.
Les
(it is possible to learn stuff here (or not))
Bear
>
> In article <FMoEC...@world.std.com>, r...@world.std.com (Rich Clancey) writes:
>
> >Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
And what, exactly, are the roles these rolls are playing?
--
Bear
Support the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
http://www.circus.com/nodhmo/
Helge Moulding
>Reminds me of the (only funny) scene in "Se7en" where the wife
>of the slain lawyer looks at an abstract painting on the wall
>and announces that it's upside-down. The two main characters
>look at each other as if to ask "how the hell can you tell?"
The artist's signature was upside-down? She's seen it hung the
other way around in the gallery? She was/knew the artist? The
wrong edge of the frame was dusty? The wallpaper behind the
picture showed an unbleached area because the picture's
hanging wire wasn't in the exact center of the frame? Some
paint had stuck to the frame when the canvas was removed?
Lot's of ways to tell, but I suppose that wouldn't be funny.
Why do people assume that an abstract painting has no
esthetic to it which might impose an "up" and a "down"?
--
Helge Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> In article <FMoEC...@world.std.com>, r...@world.std.com (Rich Clancey) writes:
>
> >Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
> >bottom first? Is Asian wallpaper any different?
> >
> > These are not idle questions. A friend of mine and her
> >decorator are at odds over the issue, and she doesn't want her house
> >wallpapered upside down. I say if you can't tell it doesn't matter,
> >but she says she wants it done right.
You're right: if you can't tell it doesn't matter.
> All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role first.
> That was true whether or not it was a random design, or one that had a definite
> top-bottom orientation.
How would you hang wallpaper *from the bottom*? I mean, you glue the
top of the paper to the wall, let the roll hang down, and cut it to
length. If you tried to do it bottom to top, you'd have to stand on
the ladder, supporting the roll with one hand while cutting with the
other. Just wouldn't work.
M.
Tim Robinson
--
Tim Robinson
timt...@ionet.net
"Fast, better, cheaper -- pick any two" - Old Engineering Proverb
Lalbert1 <lalb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991213124649...@ngol08.aol.com...
> In article <FMoEC...@world.std.com>, r...@world.std.com (Rich Clancey)
writes:
>
> >Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
> >bottom first? Is Asian wallpaper any different?
> >
> > These are not idle questions. A friend of mine and her
> >decorator are at odds over the issue, and she doesn't want her house
> >wallpapered upside down. I say if you can't tell it doesn't matter,
> >but she says she wants it done right.
> >
> >
>
> All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role
first.
> That was true whether or not it was a random design, or one that had a
definite
> top-bottom orientation.
You know, I'm trying to picture wallpaper in a role (as opposed to a "roll")
and these comments are conjuring up some amazing images.
Tim Robinson
news:833j9g$rv4$1...@mail.pl.unisys.com...
> Tim Robinson wrote in message <833a3v$pcg$1...@ionews.ionet.net>...
> >Reminds me of the (only funny) scene in "Se7en" where the wife
> >of the slain lawyer looks at an abstract painting on the wall
> >and announces that it's upside-down. The two main characters
> >look at each other as if to ask "how the hell can you tell?"
>
> The artist's signature was upside-down? She's seen it hung the
> other way around in the gallery? She was/knew the artist? The
> wrong edge of the frame was dusty? The wallpaper behind the
> picture showed an unbleached area because the picture's
> hanging wire wasn't in the exact center of the frame? Some
> paint had stuck to the frame when the canvas was removed?
>
> Lot's of ways to tell, but I suppose that wouldn't be funny.
>
> Why do people assume that an abstract painting has no
> esthetic to it which might impose an "up" and a "down"?
I'm guessing you haven't seen the movie. The picture was viewed from
accross the room. It had all the sense of up and down (practically or
aesthetically) as "Autumn Rhythm" does.
Tarquin
smiled quietly to herself...
"Six Degrees of Separation" features a plot mechanism that revolves
around the lead character's bisexuality and several references to
paintings that "go both ways."
--
carbona not glue
Seanette Blaylock
>Why do people assume that an abstract painting has no
>esthetic to it which might impose an "up" and a "down"?
We've SEEN abstract paintings? :-)
--
Seanette Blaylock
Reply to sean...@spammers.drop.dead.impulse.net
[make obvious correction]
Bear
>In article <385538EA...@my.box>, Bear <no....@my.box> writes:
>
>>Lalbert1 wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <FMoEC...@world.std.com>, r...@world.std.com (Rich Clancey)
>>writes:
>>>
>>> >Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
>>
>>> All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role
>>first.
>>
>>And what, exactly, are the roles these rolls are playing?
>
>It happened again! Brain and fingers going their separate ways.
I held off until two of you were doing the same thing, back to back.
:)
fastrada
> Reminds me of the (only funny) scene in "Se7en" where the wife of the slain
> lawyer looks at an abstract painting on the wall and announces that it's
> upside-down. The two main characters look at each other as if to ask "how
> the hell can you tell?"
>
> Tim Robinson
> timt...@ionet.net
> "Fast, better, cheaper -- pick any two" - Old Engineering Proverb
Not to mention the great Brad Pitt delivery of the dialogue: "Fucking
Dante!"
Regards,
Josepg
--
"i don't have to put up with this shabby crap--i'm a
journalist!" --transmetropolitan
Lalbert1
>Lalbert1 wrote:
>>
>> In article <FMoEC...@world.std.com>, r...@world.std.com (Rich Clancey)
>writes:
>>
>> >Which way does wallpaper come off the role? Top first or
>
>> All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role
>first.
>
>And what, exactly, are the roles these rolls are playing?
>
>
It happened again! Brain and fingers going their separate ways.
Les
Lalbert1
>lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1) writes:
>
>
>> All of the wallpapers I have used always had the top come off the role
>first.
>> That was true whether or not it was a random design, or one that had a
>definite
>> top-bottom orientation.
>
>How would you hang wallpaper *from the bottom*? I mean, you glue the
>top of the paper to the wall, let the roll hang down, and cut it to
>length. If you tried to do it bottom to top, you'd have to stand on
>the ladder, supporting the roll with one hand while cutting with the
>other. Just wouldn't work.
The way you describe is the Mr. Boffo way of hanging wallpaper. It is also
called the Laurel and Hardy method. It can lead to getting the dog pasted to
the wall under the paper.
To do it properly like the professionals and the big kids, you cut individual
*pre-measured* strips from the roll and hang them one at time. You paste (or
wet with a pre-pasted paper) the cut strips, and then fold them into easily
handled packets. Climbing the ladder with the whole roll may work, but it
makes the job that much more difficult, and can result in a poorly aligned
pattern.
Les
Lalbert1
writes:
>You know, I'm trying to picture wallpaper in a role (as opposed to a "roll")
>and these comments are conjuring up some amazing images.
Yeah, I know. See my reply to Bear.
Les
Rich Clancey
+ You know, I'm trying to picture wallpaper in a role (as opposed to a "roll")
+ and these comments are conjuring up some amazing images.
I knew somebody would pounce on this Microsoft-induced
spelling error.
The issue was resolved by a Japanese friend who apparently
recognized the pattern on the paper as either a Japanese written
character or common motif, and was able to deliver a definitive
answer. Of course, I got this whole thing second hand, and the vital
abstract principle underlying the question was ignored. I'm going
with King l'Albert I who, if not correct, has answered the question
with the usual air of dignified authority.
Helge Moulding
<5i5b5so5p9btnrnid...@4ax.com>...
>I'm amazed by what "Helge Moulding" <hmou...@excite.com> wrote:
People often are.
>>Why do people assume that an abstract painting has no
>>esthetic to it which might impose an "up" and a "down"?
>We've SEEN abstract paintings? :-)
Ah, but have you ever *looked* at one? I'd seen lots of
airplanes, but until my brother started telling me about
the different makes and models (he worked for FedEx for a
short while) I never actually looked at them.
I realize that the "how can you tell?" line is a joke. It
is, however, a pretty cheap joke, merely a put down, on
the order of calling "military intelligence" an oxymoron,
or commenting on Newt Gingrich's weight.
Maybe my reaction is a bit geeky, but from where I'm
sitting, the joke just doesn't fly.
"Se7en" was not a comedy, so I wouldn't be looking for
funny moments in the movie. However, humor is an excellent
device for leavening unrelieved tension in a thriller. The
humor can be dark, gallows humor, like Willis's quips in
his action pics, or ironic takes like Hopkins's better
work, or even purely human, like Rudrud's role in "Fargo".
A cheap shot at abstract art seems silly and out of place.
Bill Baldwin
>Maybe my reaction is a bit geeky, but from where I'm
>sitting, the joke just doesn't fly.
>
>"Se7en" was not a comedy, so I wouldn't be looking for
>funny moments in the movie. However, humor is an excellent
>device for leavening unrelieved tension in a thriller. The
>humor can be dark, gallows humor, like Willis's quips in
>his action pics, or ironic takes like Hopkins's better
>work, or even purely human, like Rudrud's role in "Fargo".
>A cheap shot at abstract art seems silly and out of place.
So you would expect two New York City cops NOT to have exactly that reaction?
Helge Moulding
>So you would expect two New York City cops NOT to have exactly
>that reaction?
I'd hope that NYC's finest would understand that there might be
a way to tell which side of an abstract painting is up, even
though they might not know how.
Why would the wife notice that the painting was upside down? Is
it a clue? I don't know, not having seen the picture, but I
wonder if I'd have taken a cop's reaction to the possible
revelation of clues as a joke at the expense of abstract art.
Just possibly it wasn't even meant that way.
I have this mental image of Friday and Gannon from "Dragnet"
giving each other a *look* when the wife says, "It's upside down!"
But then Gannon would ask, "Why do you say that, ma'm?"
--
Helge "Just the facts!" Moulding
Tarquin
smiled quietly to herself...
> Helge Moulding wrote:
> >Maybe my reaction is a bit geeky, but from where I'm
> >sitting, the joke just doesn't fly.
> >
> >"Se7en" was not a comedy, so I wouldn't be looking for
> >funny moments in the movie. However, humor is an excellent
> >device for leavening unrelieved tension in a thriller. The
> >humor can be dark, gallows humor, like Willis's quips in
> >his action pics, or ironic takes like Hopkins's better
> >work, or even purely human, like Rudrud's role in "Fargo".
> >A cheap shot at abstract art seems silly and out of place.
>
It was never established that they were New York cops. The movie was
filmed in Vancouver.
--
carbona not glue
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> Why would the wife notice that the painting was upside down? Is
> it a clue?
The wife's photo at the crime scene had eyeglasses drawn on it in
blood -- the cops thought that that might mean "have the wife look at
the crime scene". She was ask if she saw anything strange about the
place, her husband's office (other than, presumably, her husband's
eviscerated corpse and the word "greed" written in blood on the
parquet). She pointed out the painting behind the desk was upside
down. There were more clues behind the painting.
BTW, this scene summarizes IMO the mood of _Seven_: implausible,
pretentious, gory, and boring.
M.
Shawn Wilson
<mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com> wrote in message
news:m3ogbsj...@zorro.civet...
> BTW, this scene summarizes IMO the mood of _Seven_: implausible,
> pretentious, gory, and boring.
Sounds like 'End of Days', though EoD wasn't bad if you watched it as a
comedy.
(I was bored and looking for a sex and/or violence fix, and I'd already seen
'Sleepy Hollow')
(BTW, 'The World is Not Enough' also sucked. Best part- Russian terrorist
orders Russian sub to 100 feet, crewman obediently moves lever to '100'
position)
Big David
news:19991215195305...@ng-da1.aol.com...
<snip stuff about the movie se7en>
>... I did wonder how someone could drive for 50 minutes from >downtown
Anyplace and be out in the middle of nowhere. Certainly >New York or
Chicago wouldn't do it.
It has been my experience that, except for the truly largest cities (in
population or square mileage, i.e.., LA to San Diego, Chicago,
Jacksonville, San Fran Bay area, Dallas-Ft. Worth megalopolis,) it not only
possible to be in the middle of nowhere in 50 minutes, its likely. Even NY
isn't much of a stretch. Depending on where/what you mean by "downtown",
you can be halfway to Albany or in Conn. and in the middle of what could
politely be called "nowhere" in 50 minutes. From Chicago, you can be
pretty close to barely populated Wisconsin farmland in 50 minutes. From
Philly, head west towards Bucks County and in 50 minutes you get to some
fairly rural areas. Same applies to Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Columbus,
Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Miami, Louisville, Memphis,
Boston, DC, Richmond, Atlanta and a few others I've visited which I can't
remember right now.
Big David
"Commit a little mortal sin. It's good for your soul."
To reply, remove spambait
Tarquin
> Depending on where/what you mean by "downtown",
> you can be halfway to Albany or in Conn. and in the middle of what could
> politely be called "nowhere" in 50 minutes. From Chicago, you can be
> pretty close to barely populated Wisconsin farmland in 50 minutes.
From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
--
carbona not glue
Sean Houtman
>> So you would expect two New York City cops NOT to have exactly that
>reaction?
>
>It was never established that they were New York cops. The movie was
>filmed in Vancouver.
>
>
Although the movie never said what big city it took place in, I did wonder how
someone could drive for 50 minutes from downtown Anyplace and be out in the
middle of nowhere. Certainly New York or Chicago wouldn't do it.
Sean
Big David
news:MPG.12c21afea...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
Ahhh...Schaumburg...the great black hole into which my mortgage payment
sinks each month (my mortgage company has a processing center there).
Perhaps you have a point. But you do see my point, no? All of my
experience (consisting of 10 or so trips there back in the eighties) is
from Naperville to and from points other than downtown, so I bow to your
greater experience in Chicago. But generally, I believe what I say holds,
barring the city being the geographic size of Rhode Island, like
Jacksonville, FL is.
Dana Carpender
Tarquin wrote:
> In article <38585...@news.BVSERVICES>, debo...@spambait.pcbank.net
> said, as she smiled quietly to herself...
>
> > Depending on where/what you mean by "downtown",
> > you can be halfway to Albany or in Conn. and in the middle of what could
> > politely be called "nowhere" in 50 minutes. From Chicago, you can be
> > pretty close to barely populated Wisconsin farmland in 50 minutes.
>
> From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
> least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
> Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
If you're heading to Wisconsin from downtown, what the heck are you doing
going thru Schaumburg? Wisconsin's due north. Seems to me you'd hit Lake
Forest in about 50 minutes.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Dana Carpender
Tarquin wrote:
> In article <385918A8...@kiva.net>, dcar...@kiva.net said, as she
> smiled quietly to herself...
> >
> >
> > Tarquin wrote:
> >
> > > In article <38585...@news.BVSERVICES>, debo...@spambait.pcbank.net
> > > said, as she smiled quietly to herself...
> > >
> > > > Depending on where/what you mean by "downtown",
> > > > you can be halfway to Albany or in Conn. and in the middle of what could
> > > > politely be called "nowhere" in 50 minutes. From Chicago, you can be
> > > > pretty close to barely populated Wisconsin farmland in 50 minutes.
> > >
> > > From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
> > > least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
> > > Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
> >
> > If you're heading to Wisconsin from downtown, what the heck are you doing
> > going thru Schaumburg? Wisconsin's due north. Seems to me you'd hit Lake
> > Forest in about 50 minutes.
>
> Well, what's the place with the big IKEA on I-90? That's the place I
> mean. What suburb it is I don't know - for some reason I assumed
> Schaumburg. I grew on the North Side but I don't think I made it west of
> Oak Park until I was in college.
>
Dunno. What I'm trying to figure out is why you're taking I-90 to Wisconsin
instead of I-94, which would strike me as the logical choice. Unless you're
headed for the western part of Wisconsin, I suppose. Going to Dodgeville?
Tarquin
smiled quietly to herself...
>
>
> Tarquin wrote:
>
> > In article <38585...@news.BVSERVICES>, debo...@spambait.pcbank.net
> > said, as she smiled quietly to herself...
> >
> > > Depending on where/what you mean by "downtown",
> > > you can be halfway to Albany or in Conn. and in the middle of what could
> > > politely be called "nowhere" in 50 minutes. From Chicago, you can be
> > > pretty close to barely populated Wisconsin farmland in 50 minutes.
> >
> > From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
> > least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
> > Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
>
> If you're heading to Wisconsin from downtown, what the heck are you doing
> going thru Schaumburg? Wisconsin's due north. Seems to me you'd hit Lake
> Forest in about 50 minutes.
Maybe that would be the case if I were just heading for "Wisconsin" with
no particular destination in mind, and didn't want to take the
expressway. As it is, I'm driving from Madison to Downtown and/or
Evanston and I'm taking I-90.
--
carbona not glue
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
If you drove 50 miles to the southwest from New York, wouldn't you be
in rural western New Jersey or northeast Pennsylvania, or is my
geography getting away from me?
From Chicago, you could walk to the middle of nowhere in an afternoon.
M.
Tarquin
> From Chicago, you could walk to the middle of nowhere in an afternoon.
Please give me directions then. Really, I can't tell you how many times I
wanted to walk from my apartment on Belmont and Broadway to the middle of
nowhere.
--
carbona not glue
Scott Wilson
If traffic in NY is anything like traffic in Chicago, there is a large
difference between 50 minutes and 50 miles. If done anytime between 6am
and 8pm, I seriously doubt you could get to "nowhere" from the loop in 50
minutes no matter which way you drove.
>From Chicago, you could walk to the middle of nowhere in an afternoon.
Damn boy, how fast do you walk? Even if you consider a 20 mile walk an
afternoon walk, you would only get as far as Lombard, Hammond or
Deerfield. While Hammond may be approaching the edge of nowhere, it
certainly isn't in the middle of it.
--
Scott Wilson Letting my freak flag fly
swi...@uchicago.edu
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> In article <m3g0x2k...@zorro.civet>, mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> said, as she smiled quietly to herself...
>
>
> > From Chicago, you could walk to the middle of nowhere in an afternoon.
>
> Please give me directions then. Really, I can't tell you how many times I
> wanted to walk from my apartment on Belmont and Broadway to the middle of
> nowhere.
Step outside. Observe that you are in Chicago. Notice what a nowhere
place that is.
"Chicago, the capital of Fly-Over Country."
M.
Dana Carpender
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com wrote:
<ignoring undeserved slur against Chicago, a great town>
Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from Belmont and
Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
Tom Nawrocki
: >If you drove 50 miles to the southwest from New York, wouldn't you be
: >in rural western New Jersey or northeast Pennsylvania, or is my
: >geography getting away from me?
: If traffic in NY is anything like traffic in Chicago, there is a large
: difference between 50 minutes and 50 miles. If done anytime between 6am
: and 8pm, I seriously doubt you could get to "nowhere" from the loop in 50
: minutes no matter which way you drove.
Most of the time, if you drove for 50 minutes to the southwest from downtown
New York, you'd be lucky to make it to Newark.
If you drove for 50 minutes to the southwest from midtown Manhattan, you'd be
lucky to make it through the Holland Tunnel.
Tom Nawrocki
Tarquin
> tarq...@removethis.hotmail.com (Tarquin) writes:
>
> > In article <m3g0x2k...@zorro.civet>, mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> > said, as she smiled quietly to herself...
> >
> >
> > > From Chicago, you could walk to the middle of nowhere in an afternoon.
> >
> > Please give me directions then. Really, I can't tell you how many times I
> > wanted to walk from my apartment on Belmont and Broadway to the middle of
> > nowhere.
>
> Step outside. Observe that you are in Chicago. Notice what a nowhere
> place that is.
>
> "Chicago, the capital of Fly-Over Country."
mlorton, a guy who takes pride in his ignorance.
--
carbona not glue
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
wrote:
>Tarquin wrote:
>> From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
>> least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
>> Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
>
>If you're heading to Wisconsin from downtown, what the heck are you doing
>going thru Schaumburg? Wisconsin's due north. Seems to me you'd hit Lake
>Forest in about 50 minutes.
But if you get a good running start, you can skip your way across...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted!
http://home.icubed.net/starchsr/table.htm
Address munged for the inconvienence of spammers:
My address is starchsr <at> icubed dot net
Mark Brader
> Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from Belmont and
> Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Tools, not solutions. :-)"
m...@vex.net -- Henry Spencer
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Gary S. Callison
: Dana Carpender writes:
: > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from
: > Belmont and Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
: Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
Er, no? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Lake Michigan is big. Really big. You
may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist's, but that's
just peanuts compared to Lake Michigan.
I predict Lake Michigan will freeze over sometime between the next ice age
and the heat-death of the universe.
--
Huey
Mark Brader
> > > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from
> > > Belmont and Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
Me (Mark Brader):
> > Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
Gary Callison:
> Er, no? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Lake Michigan is big. Really big. You
> may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist's, but that's
> just peanuts compared to Lake Michigan.
Yes, it's about the size of Lake Ontario. On which, if my brain is not
playing tricks on me, I have certainly seen ice. I don't remember how
far from shore it extended, though.
> I predict Lake Michigan will freeze over sometime between the next ice age
> and the heat-death of the universe.
I didn't mean the whole lake had to freeze over; just enough of it that one
could walk out and no longer be psychologically in the city.
--
Mark Brader "Clearly, neither Mark Brader nor
Toronto Steve Summit read the whole book..."
m...@vex.net -- Greg Black
Gary S. Callison
: > > Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
: > Er, no? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Lake Michigan is big. Really
: > big. You may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist's,
: > but that's just peanuts compared to Lake Michigan.
: Yes, it's about the size of Lake Ontario. On which, if my brain is not
: playing tricks on me, I have certainly seen ice. I don't remember how
: far from shore it extended, though.
: > I predict Lake Michigan will freeze over sometime between the next
: > ice age and the heat-death of the universe.
: I didn't mean the whole lake had to freeze over; just enough of it that
: one could walk out and no longer be psychologically in the city.
Well, if _that's_ the only requirement, I can state definitively that if
one drinks enough Meister Brau, one will no longer be psychologically in
the city. One may, in fact, moon a cop, or perhaps follow good-looking
members of the opposite sex into the restroom.
Personal data point: cold sober, I no longer consider myself 'in the city'
once I get to the other side of 294, 159th Street, or Deerfield. Ya gotta
go to Kane county, the other side of Joliet, Indiana, or Wisconsin to no
longer be in the suburbs.
--
Huey
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> In article <m33dt2j...@zorro.civet>, mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> > "Chicago, the capital of Fly-Over Country."
>
> mlorton, a guy who takes pride in his ignorance.
Everyone has to be proud of something, but are you implying that
Chicago is NOT the capital of Fly-Over Country?
M.
Dana Carpender
"StarChaser " wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:51:53 -0500, Dana Carpender <dcar...@kiva.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Tarquin wrote:
> >> From the suburbs, *maybe*. I drive from downtown Chicago to Wisconsin at
> >> least twice a month. Depending on traffic, I'm lucky if I make it to
> >> Schaumburg in 50 minutes.
> >
> >If you're heading to Wisconsin from downtown, what the heck are you doing
> >going thru Schaumburg? Wisconsin's due north. Seems to me you'd hit Lake
> >Forest in about 50 minutes.
>
> But if you get a good running start, you can skip your way across...
And should. I lived in LF for *way* too long. Graduated Lake Forest Academy.
If you've ever seen Ordinary People, Judith Guest and Robert Redford *nailed*
that town.
Dana Carpender
Mark Brader wrote:
> Dana Carpender writes:
> > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from Belmont and
> > Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
>
> Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
Rarely, but I believe it has been known to happen. Seems I remember one year,
quite a while back, when the surface of Lake Michigan froze shore-to-shore. Am I
nuts, or does anyone else remember this?
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
Mark Brader wrote:
>
> Dana Carpender:
> > > > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from
> > > > Belmont and Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
>
> Me (Mark Brader):
> > > Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
>
> Gary Callison:
> > Er, no? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Lake Michigan is big. Really big. You
> > may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist's, but that's
> > just peanuts compared to Lake Michigan.
>
> Yes, it's about the size of Lake Ontario. On which, if my brain is not
> playing tricks on me, I have certainly seen ice. I don't remember how
> far from shore it extended, though.
You get what we call "shelf ice" on Lake Michigan. The waves come up on
shore, little bits of water freeze, this happens over and over and over
and over until there's a very thick layer of ice, several feet high and
often twenty feet into the lake, around the edge. The signs say "DO NOT
WALK ON THIS OR YOU WILL MOST CERTAINLY DIE" so we do not walk on the
shelf ice[1]. It looks really cool, though, at night it's like being on
the moon.
> > I predict Lake Michigan will freeze over sometime between the next ice age
> > and the heat-death of the universe.
> I didn't mean the whole lake had to freeze over; just enough of it that one
> could walk out and no longer be psychologically in the city.
For values of "no longer psychologically in the city" of 20 feet or
less, sure.
I looked, but I couldn't find a photo on the web. Sorry.
L & k,
Amy
[1] Anymore. We did in high school. None of us died.
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
Dana Carpender wrote:
>
> Mark Brader wrote:
>
> > Dana Carpender writes:
> > > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from Belmont and
> > > Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
> >
> > Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
>
> Rarely, but I believe it has been known to happen. Seems I remember one year,
> quite a while back, when the surface of Lake Michigan froze shore-to-shore. Am I
> nuts, or does anyone else remember this?
You must be nuts. :) The water temperature of the lake doesn't ever
get low enough, all the way through, to freeze like that. See my
previous post about shelf ice. It may have LOOKED like it was all
frozen, but it wasn't. It couldn't be.
The relative temperature of the lake is what gives Northwest Indiana
lake effect snow. The cold air blows over the (relatively) warm water,
picks up the water, and dumps it on driveways.
(sorry 'bout that url)
Lake Michigan, the second largest Great Lake by volume with 1,180 cubic
miles of water, is the only Great Lake entirely within the United
States. Approximately 118 miles wide and 307 miles long, Lake Michigan
has more than 1,600 miles of shoreline. Averaging 279 feet in depth,
the lake reaches 925 feet at its deepest point. The lake's northern tier
is in the colder, less developed upper Great Lakes region, while its
more temperate southern basin contains the Milwaukee and Chicago
metropolitan areas. The drainage basin, approximately twice as large as
the 22,300 square miles of surface water, includes portions of Illinois,
Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin. Lake Michigan is hydrologically
inseparable from Lake Huron, joined by the wide Straits of Mackinac.
One of the physicists in the group can figure out how long it would take
to freeze 22,300 square miles of surface water hard enough to walk on.
I found another cool page with a long url:
http://www.askjeeves.com/main/FinalAnswer.asp?qCategory=GEOG&Link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egreat%2Dlakes%2Enet%2Fplaces%2Fwatsheds%2Flmich%2Ehtml&Title=Lake+Michigan&Answers=2&ajparam_list1=33&ajparam_fillers=%7C33%5B2970%5D%7C&ajparam_qid=2650&site_name=Jeeves&scope=web&ask=Where+can+I+find+information+about+the+body+of+water+Lake+Michigan%3F&origin=0&metasearch=yes
That says that the current surface temperature of Lake Michigan, closest
to Chicago, is 45.3 degrees Fahrenheit, if you need a starting point,
physicists.
L & k,
Amy
Jonathan Wagner
somewhere specific in Wisconsin" thing has been resolved.)
I've driven I-90 out to Schaumburg and beyond many times. While it might
take 50 minutes or so from the loop in extreme traffic, it doesn't really
get that bad in everyday conditions. To hit 50 minutes for that leg, you
have to be talking Bears game/rollover wreck/heavy snow kind of problems.
Normal is 25 minutes or so. 35 or 40 minutes is common, but 50 minutes is
quite rare, I think.
Bear
>
> Dana Carpender:
> > > > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from
> > > > Belmont and Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
>
> > > Doesn't that part of Lake Michigan ever freeze over?
>
> > Er, no? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Lake Michigan is big. Really big. You
> > may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist's, but that's
> > just peanuts compared to Lake Michigan.
>
> Yes, it's about the size of Lake Ontario. On which, if my brain is not
> playing tricks on me, I have certainly seen ice. I don't remember how
> far from shore it extended, though.
Granted, Lake Ontario is closer to you than Lake Michigan, but...
Lake Michigan: 22,300 sq. mi.
Lake Ontario: 7,340
Lake Michigan is three times as large as Lake Ontario, perspective
aside.
--
Bear
Support the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
http://www.circus.com/nodhmo/
Bear
Dana Carpender wrote:
>
> Mark Brader wrote:
>
> > > Actually, the shortest way to get to the middle of nowhere from Belmont and
> > > Broadway is due east, but you'll need a boat.
> >
>
> quite a while back, when the surface of Lake Michigan froze shore-to-shore. Am I
> nuts, or does anyone else remember this?
I believe that it has frozen over completely; Funk and Wagnalls' site
says the northern part freezes over for about 4 months of the year; I've
seen photos of icebreakers working it to release ships or keep a lane
open.
Mark Brader
> Lake Ontario: 7,340
>
> Lake Michigan is three times as large as Lake Ontario, perspective
> aside.
Huh, so it is. Perspective, right. That must be it. Perspective.
Either that or I was talking about orders of magnitude.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "More importantly, Mark is just plain wrong."
m...@vex.net -- John Hollingsworth
N Jill Marsh
> I believe that it has frozen over completely; Funk and Wagnalls' site
> says the northern part freezes over for about 4 months of the year; I've
> seen photos of icebreakers working it to release ships or keep a lane
> open.
I don't think any of the Great Lakes freezes over completely (unless you
count Lake St. Clair), but that doesn't mean there isn't miles of ice on
them in spots. I have flown out over Lake Superior (a lot colder and bigger
than Michigan) for several minutes and seen only solid, rather than pack ice.
Bays and straits, which are the bits we use the most, will freeze over
more readily than open lake, but I would say that pack ice is usually the
problem in the Great Lakes. The St. Clair River occaisionally gets
completely clogged with pack ice, as does the lower end of Lake Huron. I
would think that Michigan would have the same sort of problems as Huron
does with ice.
The Great Lakes freeze less now than at any other time in recorded
history. Remember, there used to be ice bridges across the St. Clair and
Detroit Rivers, and fairs within the Niagara Gorge. I think the Niagara
fairs ended in the early part of the century, people were travelling
across the St. Clair in cars well into the 1930s.
njm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See, here he comes stealing through the undergrowth, his face shining
with the light of pure intelligence. There are no limits to Jeeve's
brain power. He virtually lives on fish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear
>
> > Lake Michigan: 22,300 sq. mi.
> > Lake Ontario: 7,340
> >
> > Lake Michigan is three times as large as Lake Ontario, perspective
> > aside.
>
> Huh, so it is. Perspective, right. That must be it. Perspective.
> Either that or I was talking about orders of magnitude.
I'm not convinced that in a light discussion like this, most people read
"in terms of orders of magnitude" into "about the same size" In
"orders of magnitude", Gary Coleman and Wilt Chamberlain were about the
same size.
I'll send you a check for $1,000 and you send me one for $3,000.
They're "about the same size", after all, since the ratio of their sizes
is the same as that of those two lakes. Happly holidays. :)
Gary S. Callison
: Mark Brader wrote:
: > > Lake Michigan: 22,300 sq. mi.
: > > Lake Ontario: 7,340
: > > Lake Michigan is three times as large as Lake Ontario, perspective
: > > aside.
: > Huh, so it is. Perspective, right. That must be it. Perspective.
: > Either that or I was talking about orders of magnitude.
: I'm not convinced that in a light discussion like this, most people read
: "in terms of orders of magnitude" into "about the same size" In
: "orders of magnitude", Gary Coleman and Wilt Chamberlain were about the
: same size.
Hmf? Where I live, an order of magnitude is a factor of 10. Dunno if half
an order of magnitude would be '5' or ln(10) in casual conversation, but I
try not to talk to anybody who thinks 'within an order of magnitude' means
'about the same size'. Same size in galactic terms, maybe...
--
Huey
Mark Brader
Can I wait until the Canadian dollar drops to 30 cents US?
--
Mark Brader "Actually, $150, to an educational institution,
Toronto turns out to be about the same as a lower amount."
m...@vex.net -- Mark Horton
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
"Gary S. Callison" wrote:
> Hmf? Where I live, an order of magnitude is a factor of 10. Dunno if half
> an order of magnitude would be '5' or ln(10) in casual conversation, but I
> try not to talk to anybody who thinks 'within an order of magnitude' means
> 'about the same size'. Same size in galactic terms, maybe...
I always thought that an order of magnitude was a power of 10. So 10 is
three orders of magnitude smaller than 10,000. Or something. I dunno.
Now that I think about it, maybe it depends on what you're talking
about. For example, an order of magnitude in terms of space travel
might be different than an order of magnitude in land travel.
Hold on...
from http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
(WWWebster's)
Main Entry: order of magnitude
Date: 1875
: a range of magnitude extending from some value to ten times that value
Woo hoo, I am always right! :)
So, yeah, in money, an order of magnitude would be a big deal. If you
could get your parents to increase your allowance by an order of
magnitude every year, you would be a happy kid by the time you were
18...
L & k,
Amy
RM Mentock
> I'll send you a check for $1,000 and you send me one for $3,000.
> They're "about the same size", after all, since the ratio of their sizes
> is the same as that of those two lakes. Happly holidays. :)
I'll do better than that. You send me a check for $1000, and I'll
send one back for $1010.
Do I have that backwards? O well.
--
RM Mentock
The war on ignorance begins with me
http://sentient.home.mindspring.com/dan/
Bear
>
> > I'll send you a check for $1,000 and you send me one for $3,000.
>
> Can I wait until the Canadian dollar drops to 30 cents US?
Nopers. Today or nothing. What's the problem?
Tell you what...
I'll write my check out for $1,200 dollars. That's for even MORE than
your check which is about the same size as mine. :)
--
Bear
Warning: this post may contain peanut traces.
Bear
>
> Bear (no....@my.box) wrote:
> : Mark Brader wrote:
> : > > Lake Michigan: 22,300 sq. mi.
> : > > Lake Ontario: 7,340
> : > > Lake Michigan is three times as large as Lake Ontario, perspective
> : > > aside.
> : > Huh, so it is. Perspective, right. That must be it. Perspective.
> : > Either that or I was talking about orders of magnitude.
> : I'm not convinced that in a light discussion like this, most people read
> : "in terms of orders of magnitude" into "about the same size" In
> : "orders of magnitude", Gary Coleman and Wilt Chamberlain were about the
> : same size.
>
Of course. Gary...Wilt...within one of them. That's what I said.
> an order of magnitude would be '5' or ln(10) in casual conversation, but I
> try not to talk to anybody who thinks 'within an order of magnitude' means
> 'about the same size'. Same size in galactic terms, maybe...
Where I live, too. I was saying that when someone in this kind of a
discussion says "about the same size as", referring to two areas, he's
not generally talking about things that vary by a factor of 3x. And
that was the situation, exactly. Mark stated that those two lakes were
"about the same size". I disagreed *not* because I don't understand the
concept of orders of magnitude; I disagreed because since OOM wasn't
specified, and since this isn't sci.professors, the statement wasn't
accurate *in the context* of the discussion. In a context where "about
the same size" doesn't equal "three times larger".
Mark Brader
> The Great Lakes freeze less now than at any other time in recorded
> history. Remember, there used to be ice bridges across the St. Clair and
> Detroit Rivers, and fairs within the Niagara Gorge. I think the Niagara
And as I mentioned here a couple of months ago, in 1848 the Niagara River
was blocked at its source for a day or so by wind-driven ice.
--
Mark Brader | "There is a pervasive illusion in certain quarters
Toronto | that Mother Nature is our friend. Wrong; dead wrong.
m...@vex.net | She doesn't care whether we live or die,
| and she loves surprises." -- Henry Spencer
Mark Brader
> > > > Either that or I was talking about orders of magnitude.
> discussion says "about the same size as", referring to two areas, he's
> not generally talking about things that vary by a factor of 3x. And
> that was the situation, exactly.
Sorry, I should have used a smiley on the "Either that" line. I thought
it was obvious that the tone of voice from the first line was intended to
carry over to the second. After 15+ years on Usenet, I should know better.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Common sense isn't any more common on Usenet
m...@vex.net | than it is anywhere else." --Henry Spencer
Anton Sherwood
: You know, I'm trying to picture wallpaper in a role (as opposed to
: a "roll") and these comments are conjuring up some amazing images.
Among cartoonists, a strip consisting mostly of repetitions of one
frame is called a "wallpaper gag"; the one I have in mind has about a
dozen heads of Sgt Snorkel looking neutral, except that one of them is
laughing; in the final panel he tells someone "It was a bore, except
for Lt Fuzz's humiliating accident." Er, anyway, here we have
wallpaper in the role of Sgt Snorkel.
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* http://www.jps.net/antons/
Jeff Janes
: I don't think any of the Great Lakes freezes over completely (unless you
: count Lake St. Clair), but that doesn't mean there isn't miles of ice on
Hell, St. Clair ain't even a mediocre lake.
But all of the Great Lakes, even Superior, do occasionally freeze over.
(Well, I don't know how they verify that every square inch is froze, I
guess satellite pictures could do a good job of it in recent years)
Jeff
--
Jeff Janes
email: ja...@scripps.edu