Just curious
SJF 1959
Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
basis?
2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
already knew face-to-face?
Regards from Deborah
FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
Mailing list: http://www.listbot.com/subscribe/sjf1959.aol.com
Archive: http://www.listbot.com/archive/sjf1959.aol.com
Neil
SJF 1959 wrote:
> Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
> won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
> affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
Well speaking as a lurker, I discovered this group after watching the short lived
T.V. show on A&E.
Neil
BobKinDC
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
I don't, but there is another regular here who's close friends with my sister
and my high school drama teacher. One degree of separation, I suppose.
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
>
I was brought in via the newspaper column.
--Bob Kennedy
Washington, DC
Greg Goss
>
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
>
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
My arrival was triggered by the A&E show. I've dragged 2 other people
in, but neither stayed.
Never met any of the others, though there seem to be at least 4 of us
Vancouverites.
Nick Spalding
>
> Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
> won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
> affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
Not me. I have met some a.f.u regulars.
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
Not me. I think I came via a reference in a.f.u.
--
Nick Spalding
Frank Mango
>
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
Not me (I'm an irregular.)
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
I discovered the newsgroup about the same time as the books (late '93
or early '94 I think)
--
Frank Mango
(change "xlii" to "ix" in my address to reply)
fastrada
> Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
> won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
> affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
None, sorry. (Not that I wouldn't want to meet any of you fine folks if the
opportunity arose).
>
>
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
Nope; I discovered it on my own.
Regards,
Joe
ra...@poe.westnet.com
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
Have you been talking the Robert Versterman(sp?) We recently discovered
that we have many freinds in common, may have even met at some parties et
al. He has proposed to me, too. But we haven't met yet.
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
Here! A freind of mine who probably still lurks here introduced me to
both the books (second person to do so) and the newsgroup. Hi, Lin!
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts will be rudely replied to.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Al Yellon
SJF 1959 wrote in message <19981214213835...@ngol03.aol.com>...
>
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
face-to-face
>basis?
>
I don't know anyone in the group personally.
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
they
>already knew face-to-face?
>
I came here after reading the column in the Chicago Reader for many years,
and also all of Cecil's books.
Marie Martinek
>
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
I don't THINK I know any of you face-to-face. I might, though. If any of you
go to some Science Fiction conventions, I may know you as
"Hi-How-Are-You-How-Ya-Doin". I'm lousy at putting names to faces.
>
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
>
Well, I got brought into alt-folklore-urban-legends by someone I knew
face-to-face. From there I dropped (sidestepped?) into here.
Marie Martinek
P. O. Box 172
Northbrook, IL 60065
mv-ma...@nwu.edu
Helge Moulding
> SJF 1959 wrote:
> > 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
> > face-to-face basis?
Ditto. AFCA was originally newgrouped by an AFU regular, as I'm sure
most AFCAns are aware.
> > 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by
> > someone they already knew face-to-face?
> Not me. I think I came via a reference in a.f.u.
Ditto. Though I was a religious reader of the column before then. But
I was a relative AFU newbie at the time, and hadn't met any other
AFUisti, yet.
--
Helge "That's two dittos." Moulding
mailto:hmou...@mailexcite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
NawrockiT
: SJF 1959 <sjf...@aol.com> wrote:
: > 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
face-to-face
: > basis?
: Have you been talking the Robert Versterman(sp?) We recently discovered
: that we have many freinds in common, may have even met at some parties et
: al. He has proposed to me, too. But we haven't met yet.
Well, don't keep us in suspense. Did you accept his proposal?
If you did, you probably ought to learn how to spell his last name. Or will he
be taking yours?
Tom Nawrocki
aar...@mailexcite.com
gg...@direct.ca (Greg Goss) wrote:
> sjf...@aol.com (SJF 1959) wrote:
>
> >
> >Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
> >won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
> >affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> >
> >basis?
> >
> >already knew face-to-face?
>
> in, but neither stayed.
>
> Never met any of the others, though there seem to be at least 4 of us
> Vancouverites.
I'm another Vancouverite, and found the group through a cross-post to
alt.folklore.urban.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Robert William Vesterman
>John (ra...@poe.westnet.com) wrote:
>
>: SJF 1959 <sjf...@aol.com> wrote:
>: > 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
>face-to-face
>: > basis?
>
>: Have you been talking the Robert Versterman(sp?) We recently discovered
>: that we have many freinds in common, may have even met at some parties et
>: al. He has proposed to me, too. But we haven't met yet.
>
>Well, don't keep us in suspense. Did you accept his proposal?
He said I would have to wear the dress. I'm calling it off.
Bob Vesterman.
--
This is the coolest of all sig files.
ra...@poe.westnet.com
Not only thatm but you'd have to fight my wife for the honor. She
currently has a green belt in Inshinru Karate. Perhaps it's best that he
called it off....
Lalbert1
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity....
I think the current medical advice is that if you feel a fit coming on then you
should stick your finger down your throat and grab your tongue.
Les
Hoyt
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
face-to-face
>basis?
Never met anyone, although MC Hamster sent me a picture once.
>
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
they
>already knew face-to-face?
>
I found AFCA through a reference at the unofficial web site and subsequently
joined AOL to access Cecil's site there (my ISP had a reduced rate signup
plan for AOL, otherwise I would have not done it).
BTW, I haven't seen the FAQ posted in a while.
73,
Hoyt
deepstblu
> >
> >Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
> >won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
> >affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> >
> >1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
> face-to-face basis?
name from a book catalog and b) having a radio button set for the
station where occasional poster Pab Sungenis works. And I don't remember
seeing either until I'd been here a while.
> >2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
> they
> >already knew face-to-face?
after I first sledgehammered a modem into the old 486.
Rick B.
Chris Galvin
BaumOlsen wrote in message <19981215213757...@ng-bw1.aol.com>...
>>SJF 1959 wrote:
>>> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
face-to-face
>>> basis?
>
>My face-to-face friend is no longer a regular and has moved so he's now an
>email-to-email friend, ecept when he visits.
Just returned. Know one other a.f.c-a'er face to face besides SB
>>> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
>>they
>>> already knew face-to-face?
Found it myself, but brought one other in.
Charles A. Lieberman
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
Not that I know of. I may have seen a Boston AFCAer in a Waterstone's at
some point, and I may know lurkers, but I don't know that I know anyone who
posts.
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
I probably saw references in AFU, and then started getting into the
Phoenix.
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "Courage built a bridge, reason tore it down"
Brooklyn, New York, USA | -- R.E.M., "Kohoutek"
calieber at bu dot edu | http://members.tripod.com/~calieber/index.html
John Dean
which side of the mighty Atlantic
2) Came here oddly enough because I read an interview with Terry Pratchett
in which he talked about always looking for the latest Straight Dope books
when he was in the States. Up to then I'd never heard of Cecil (AFAIK he
isn't syndicated in the UK) but a websearch brought me to the straight dope
site thence to here
John
Oxford
SJF 1959 wrote in message <19981214213835...@ngol03.aol.com>...
>
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
face-to-face
>basis?
>
GrapeApe
usenet newsgroups before I found AFCA. I may have even seen the aol site first,
btu I dont think so. I really don't recall what exactly led me to subscribe
here, perhaps it was a crosspost to AFU which made me aware of the groups
existance.
Is afca relatively young as Usenet NGs go?
BaumOlsen
>
>> Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that
>you
>> won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>> affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>>
>> basis?
My face-to-face friend is no longer a regular and has moved so he's now an
email-to-email friend, ecept when he visits.
>> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
>they
>> already knew face-to-face?
At least one, counting myself.
-SB
Greg Goss
> about two weeks
>after I first sledgehammered a modem into the old 486.
I wish you knew how old that line makes some of us feel.
(My first computer was a 4-bit calculator that could program in BASIC
with 1.7K and a cassette drive. A long detour into C64 and Amiga, and
eventually joining the intel family late in the 286. The bank
wouldn't approve a loan for me to spend the $3300 on a PC (pre-XT).
John M. Lawler
>Every so often I get these fits of sociometric curiousity. I hope that you
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
> basis?
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
> already knew face-to-face?
I am in the target group, I think. I was introduced to a.f.c-a by a
friend and former colleague, and former a.f.c-a regular (I seriously doubt
I would have found it otherwise).
In addition, since I started reading the group I have met one other
regular in person (to my knowledge, at least).
-John Lawler http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/ Michigan Linguistics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Language is the most massive and inclusive art we know, a - Edward Sapir
mountainous and anonymous work of unconscious generations." Language (1921)
SJF 1959
jla...@umich.edu (John M. Lawler) writes:
>In addition, since I started reading the group I have met one other
>regular in person (to my knowledge, at least).
Who happens to be me.
Oh, yes - and I first checked out a.f.c.a. when Cecil mentioned it in the
column.
Glenn Rice
He remembers me, but my own memory of those days is pretty hazy. Still
need to check that old yearbook
Huey Callison
: (My first computer was a 4-bit calculator that could program in BASIC
: with 1.7K and a cassette drive. A long detour into C64 and Amiga, and
: eventually joining the intel family late in the 286. The bank
: wouldn't approve a loan for me to spend the $3300 on a PC (pre-XT).
If you're still broken up about that, I've got a complete, working IBM
5150 in the basement I can let you have for only $1,000!
;-)
--
Huey
(Wonder if there's any museums that will want it someday?)
gale...@imap2.asu.edu
> 1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a
> face-to-face basis?
Never. Lurked so long, don't know if I count as a regular.
> 2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
> they already knew face-to-face?
I stumbled across www.straightdope.com, and went from there after
reading the Index.
My own query; how many of y'all *don't* just hand the sports page to
the bunny? Very seldom, my GF (far smarter than God, Cecil, and the
entire NYucker staff, IMO :) ) will read the results of some game or
another, but though she's able to enjoy stadium sports, in two years we
haven't gotten around to going to one.
I know it's been said better before, but if I don't know these
athletes, am not related to them, and in general have no reason to care
about them, why would I? One of the *old* versions (the one with the
ginger icecream anecdote) of the Jargon File said something about
computer-literate people being more apt to play sports (non-team sports,
at that) than sit drooling as the sport was played in front of them.
</rant>
Novus Ordo Lacrosse
Galen
--
"Le superflu, chose | gkountz(at)asu.edu | Ave Kt'oohlhu,
tres necessaire." | (oO) | morituri te
-Voltaire | /||\ fnord | salutant.
Greg Goss
>Greg Goss (gg...@direct.ca) wrote:
>: (My first computer was a 4-bit calculator that could program in BASIC
>: with 1.7K and a cassette drive. A long detour into C64 and Amiga, and
>: eventually joining the intel family late in the 286. The bank
>: wouldn't approve a loan for me to spend the $3300 on a PC (pre-XT).
>
>If you're still broken up about that, I've got a complete, working IBM
>5150 in the basement I can let you have for only $1,000!
>;-)
I had to throw away the disk drive unit on my IBM 5110. I believe
that the console still works.
But I bought it far later. And even if it works, it is probably in
too poor a shape to give to a museum. I love to keep it around to
show to people that think IBM first got into the PC market in '81.
Gina Marie Wade
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
Don't know if I'm exactly a regular, but I've been reading here for
about three years.
Answer: None. I don't know a single other soul who posts here.
>
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
Not I.
I was scrolling through the alt. groups when I was bored at work (I
don't work there anymore, either) and I knew who Cecil Adams is...
so...
>
>Regards from Deborah
>
Deborah, do you have your settings not to accept mail from my ISP, or
is it for some personal reason that you started a conversation in
email and then my reply to you bounced back?
(Sorry to put this on the newsgroup.)
Gina Marie
Charles A. Lieberman
> My own query; how many of y'all *don't* just hand the sports page to
> the bunny?
It strikes me that most people read it, even literary people (by
contemporary US standards). Makes it hard for me to compare myself to
Safire (that he's a conservative who graduated Bronx Science doesn't help).
De Vries' narrators don't seem to get into sports.
This stereotype is completely unfair, of course. Whitman was certainly
literary.
Charles contains multitudes.
SJF 1959
gmw...@ix.netcom.com (Gina Marie Wade) writes:
>Deborah, do you have your settings not to accept mail from my ISP, or
>is it for some personal reason that you started a conversation in
>email and then my reply to you bounced back?
>(Sorry to put this on the newsgroup.)
Oh, you must have missed the earlier thread on this topic. AOL routinely
blocks email from certain ISPs that are spam-sources, and allows individual
users to block ISPs. Nothing personal, but I was getting a lot of spam with
Netcom headers. I would be delighted to hear from you, of course.
Scott Wilson
Gina Marie Wade <gmw...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Deborah, do you have your settings not to accept mail from my ISP, or
>is it for some personal reason that you started a conversation in
>email and then my reply to you bounced back?
>(Sorry to put this on the newsgroup.)
You haven't been with netcom very long have you?
Netcom has consistently been one of the largest (if not the largest)
spamming ISPs. They are frequently being blocked from various mail
servers, as well as the Usenet Death Penalty. Some networks have them
blocked entirely.
And frankly... having seen some of the quantity of spam that comes out of
netcom, I support every action against them. I recommend that you get a
different ISP before you get too familiar with your email being bounced.
--
Scott Wilson
swi...@mcs.net
Matt Ackeret
Charles A. Lieberman <cali...@bu.edu> wrote:
>gale...@imap2.asu.edu
>> My own query; how many of y'all *don't* just hand the sports page to
>> the bunny?
>
>It strikes me that most people read it, even literary people (by
>contemporary US standards).
I totally ignore it. I used to be a sports hater (as far as being a
spectator).. now I'm addicted to some Olympics events, and try to catch the
little league world series.. but don't care if the NBA lockout ever gets
resolved -- fewer preempted shows.
I do read the business section, which a long time ago I thought I'd never do,
but it has lots of good computer company stories. (The stock pages could
mostly be taken out except for weekly wrapups on Saturday, since I get the
info I need on the web.)
--
mat...@area.com
MCHamster
>won't mind indulging me in some informal poll taking about the web of
>affiliation here in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
face-to-face
>basis?
>
I ALMOST met another except that I happened to be out of town when said
person visited Chicago.
I HAVE met one of the AOL Straight Dopers.
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone
they
>already knew face-to-face?
>
a.f.c.-a. was just about the first newsgroup I looked at... I have no idea
how I found it but it was probably because it was near the top of an
alphabetical listing of newsgroups back in 1994 when I first posted. I was
well aware of Cece from the books, which is why the name caught my eye.
M C Hamster
"Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
GrapeApe
correlation. There are plenty of sports fans that rely on the net, especially
some of the rotisserie league folks who never get their email addresses
straight.
KGename
>
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
>
>already knew face-to-face?
aware of a.f.c.a. by Cecil's books. I have a good sized library of what I call
"useless trivia" (when expalining to the unwashed masses). More than often, I
find myself opening a SD book to back up my facts.
Regards, Keith
Sometimes, I think my brain has a mind of its own...
Shack Toms
>1) How many a.f.c.a. regulars know other a.f.c.a. regulars on a face-to-face
>basis?
Not I. I don't know anybody.
>2) How many a.f.c.a. regulars were brought into the newsgroup by someone they
>already knew face-to-face?
Not I.
IIRC, I came here this way. I had been interested in
alt.usage.english because I wanted to improve my writing. I thought
that I would get the most criticism of my use of language and my
ideas about the use of language in that forum. I then wandered
into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
[1]. From there I wandered in to alt.fan.cecil-adams following a
thread on Monty Hall, my first post was either on that or on an
alternate solution to a geometry problem that Cecil had presented in
his first book.
[1] As I recall, my poem was...
We discussed matters domestic and foreign, j-
ust after dinner, while eating an orange.
It was not well received.
Shack
Bill Baldwin
>[1] As I recall, my poem was...
> We discussed matters domestic and foreign, j-
> ust after dinner, while eating an orange.
>It was not well received.
*snicker*
Reminds me of a bit of doggerel I read in the Wall Street Journal some 17 or
so years ago. Went something like this:
To find a rhyme for silver
Or any such hard rhyme
Requires only will, ver-
Bosity and time.
SJF 1959
sh...@esinet.net (Shack Toms) writes:
>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
How about "door hinge"?
fastrada
> >>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
> >>
> >>How about "door hinge"?
> >
> >You pronounce "orange" like "oor hinge"?
>
> Apparently. I'd say I have a charming bi-coastal accent in which all short
> vowels are nearly indistinguishable. John Lawler may have a more technically
> accurate way of describing the way I talk.
>
> Best regards from Deborah
>
> FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
> Mailing list: http://www.listbot.com/subscribe/sjf1959.aol.com
> Archive: http://www.listbot.com/archive/sjf1959.aol.com
My wife and I (both native Chicagoans) both tried it, and we both pronounce it to
rhyme with "orange." Where are you from, Bob?
Regards,
Joe
Mike Pollock
Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
--Tom Lehrer.
Robert William Vesterman
>
>sh...@esinet.net (Shack Toms) writes:
>
>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
>
>How about "door hinge"?
You pronounce "orange" like "oor hinge"?
Bob Vesterman.
--
This is the coolest of all sig files.
SJF 1959
>>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
>>
>>How about "door hinge"?
>
>You pronounce "orange" like "oor hinge"?
Apparently. I'd say I have a charming bi-coastal accent in which all short
houghi
That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
Ach. Orange Shmorange.
--
houghi - Delete one houghi from the reply adress
Now, this must be it then ...
Tim Robinson
>Mike Pollock wrote:
>>
>> Eating an orange while making love
>> Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
>>
>> --Tom Lehrer.
>
>That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
>
>Ach. Orange Shmorange.
It troubled me making juice from an orange,
'til I found I could crush near the door hinge. -- Tim Robinson
| Tim Robinson | Lonely Web page. Please visit. |
| timt...@ionet.net | http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr |
| "The text of the First Amendment makes no distinction between print, |
| broadcast, and cable media." Justice Clarence Thomas' lone dissent. |
Robert William Vesterman
wrote:
>My wife and I (both native Chicagoans) both tried it, and we both pronounce it to
>rhyme with "orange." Where are you from, Bob?
New Jersey, where we pronounce "door" like "door".
SJF 1959
>> Apparently. I'd say I have a charming bi-coastal accent in which all short
vowels are nearly indistinguishable. John Lawler may have a more technically
accurate way of describing the way I talk.
>>
>
>My wife and I (both native Chicagoans) both tried it, and we both pronounce it
to rhyme with "orange.">
I have received confirmation from John (via email) that this is a reasonably
good rhyme in standard English, and am awaiting his permission to post the full
text here.
SJF 1959
And now, with John Lawler's permission, and without further ado...
######################################################
Subj: Re: Posted to alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: 12/29/98 08:48:16 AM EST
From: jla...@umich.edu (John M. Lawler)
To: SJF...@aol.com
On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 SJF...@aol.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: A rhyme for "orange" (Re: Just curious)
> From: SJF 1959
> To: alt.fan.cecil-adams
> Date: 12/28/98
> >>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
> >>How about "door hinge"?
> >You pronounce "orange" like "oor hinge"?
> Apparently. I'd say I have a charming bi-coastal accent in which all short
> vowels are nearly indistinguishable. John Lawler may have a more technically
> accurate way of describing the way I talk.
It's not necessary to be BiCoastal to have reduced unstressed vowels.
Most English speakers worldwide centralize unstressed vowels, or
reduce them to syllabic consonants. The most common vowel in English
is shwa, for which we have no letter in the alphabet. See any linguistics
book, for instance Crystal's "Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English
Language".
As for a rhyme for "orange", "door hinge" may not be perfect, but it
probably is as close as one can get. Its defects include (a) the "h",
which must be elided, and usually isn't in most American speech, and
(b) the "i", which would normally be stressed in a monosyllable (and thus
not reduced), except in rapid speech. Even there, however, it wouldn't
normally be lost entirely, the way the "a" is in the monosyllabic
pronunciation of "orange" /ornj/.
However, the "or/oor" match is exact, and so is the "nge". Gilber and
Sullivan wouldn't've blinked at the rhyme, and neither would Mick Jagger.
Hope this helps.
Love,
-j
######################################################
I rest my case.
Robert William Vesterman
>However, the "or/oor" match is exact, and so is the "nge".
In my neck of the woods, the "oor" in "door" sounds like the word
"or", and the "or" in "orange" sounds like the word "are". Do "or"
and "are" match to you? They sure don't to me.
>I rest my case.
That's nice.
Jesse McGrew
: On 30 Dec 1998 02:10:29 GMT, hu...@interaccess.com ("Huey" Callison)
: wrote:
:>Robert William Vesterman (buo...@webspan.net) wrote:
[snip]
:>Arnge? Round these parts, we makes fun of people what says 'arnge'.
: No, not arnge. Aringe. Like "aren't" with a j on the end instead of
: a t.
You must pronounce "aren't" as two syllables, then. Are you now, or have you
ever been, a member of the Communist Party?
--
/ Jesse "Monolith" McGrew \ Intel inside. Screwdriver inside.
\ Mr2001 on IRC / Intel outside. AMD inside!
Huey Callison
: In my neck of the woods, the "oor" in "door" sounds like the word
: "or", and the "or" in "orange" sounds like the word "are". Do "or"
: and "are" match to you? They sure don't to me.
Arnge? Round these parts, we makes fun of people what says 'arnge'.
Gimme five pounds of door hinges = Gimme five pounds of d'oranges.
--
Huey
Robert William Vesterman
wrote:
>Robert William Vesterman (buo...@webspan.net) wrote:
>: On 29 Dec 1998 21:40:03 GMT, sjf...@aol.com (SJF 1959) wrote:
>: In my neck of the woods, the "oor" in "door" sounds like the word
>: "or", and the "or" in "orange" sounds like the word "are". Do "or"
>: and "are" match to you? They sure don't to me.
>
>Arnge? Round these parts, we makes fun of people what says 'arnge'.
No, not arnge. Aringe. Like "aren't" with a j on the end instead of
a t.
Bob Vesterman.
SJF 1959
In article <3689607f...@news.webspan.net>, buo...@webspan.net (Robert
William Vesterman) writes:
>In my neck of the woods, the "oor" in "door" sounds like the word
>"or", and the "or" in "orange" sounds like the word "are". Do "or"
>and "are" match to you? They sure don't to me
Well, as I explained before, all of my short vowels are pretty much alike, but
it's closer to "or-inge" than to "ar-inge."
Come to think of it, though, I tend to pronounce "Laurel" as "Lar-el" rather
than "Lor-el." How about you?
Nick Spalding
> However, the "or/oor" match is exact
Not in standard English. I and most people on this side of the
Atlantic pronounce the o in orange the same as in hot or not,
definitely not as in door.
--
Nick Spalding
Greg Goss
semi-rural BC Canada with a hint of Toronto:
Ar[schwa]nt
or[schwa]nj
Lorel
all with the stress on the first syllable. The schwa syllable is
stronger on the orange than on the aren't, but still there.
(And americans stop me in airports to hear me say "house". I can't
hear the difference. My pronunciation and their sounds identical)
JmG
>it's closer to "or-inge" than to "ar-inge."
This reminds me of the famous "wash" vs. "warsh" debate of 1976!
J
--
Shadow boxing in the dark. [www.bongoboy.com]
Bill Kinkaid
>On 28 Dec 1998 23:03:40 GMT, sjf...@aol.com (SJF 1959) wrote:
>>
>>sh...@esinet.net (Shack Toms) writes:
>>
>>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
>>
>>How about "door hinge"?
>
>You pronounce "orange" like "oor hinge"?
>
It's not a rhyme, it's an assonance. As in
"Three kids who made tales about Narnia
Got gradually barmier and barmier"
(Clarence Eustace Scrubb, in _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_ by C.S. Lewis)
Bill in Vancouver
(delete EAT-SPAM-AND-DIE
from e-mail address to respond)
Robert William Vesterman
McGrew) wrote:
>Robert William Vesterman <buo...@webspan.net> wrote:
>: On 30 Dec 1998 02:10:29 GMT, hu...@interaccess.com ("Huey" Callison)
>: wrote:
>:>Robert William Vesterman (buo...@webspan.net) wrote:
>[snip]
>:>Arnge? Round these parts, we makes fun of people what says 'arnge'.
>
>: No, not arnge. Aringe. Like "aren't" with a j on the end instead of
>: a t.
>
>You must pronounce "aren't" as two syllables, then. Are you now, or have you
>ever been, a member of the Communist Party?
Yes. No. No.
You say "arnt"? That's one step up from "taint so", man. No wonder
why you can rhyme "orange" with "door hinge".
Robert William Vesterman
>Come to think of it, though, I tend to pronounce "Laurel" as "Lar-el" rather
>than "Lor-el." How about you?
Errrrrmmm... kind of "lawr-el".
Robert William Vesterman
kin...@eat.spam.and.die.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) wrote:
>It's not a rhyme, it's an assonance.
Agreed. I have no problem saying that "orange" and "door hinge" sound
vaguely similar. The title of the thread, however, is "A rhyme for
'orange'".
GrapeApe
>than "Lor-el." How about you?
I would pronounce lar-el as I would the lar in larry hagman. LAIR-ul
Do you mean LAH-rel or law-rel vs LORE-el? I think I smoosh the usage of both
variants back and forth. Laurel and Hardy would be Lahr as in Burt Lahr, or
LORE as in Datas evil twin in almost equal frequency, althoug I just leaned
towards LORE-ul. Southeastern verbs are so strange its hard to explain them in
ascii text. Fire and Tire are not exactly far and tar, as some outsiders might
claim, nor are they Fi-er and Tie-ur.
Wasn't Lor-el Supergirls name or the name of Supermans Kryptonian mom?
SJF 1959
kin...@eat.spam.and.die.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) writes:
>It's not a rhyme, it's an assonance
Hey, it is SO a rhyme! My linguist says so, and my linguist can beat up your
linguist!
Best regards from Deborah "I trust that you follow the logic of my rebuttal"
Finn
Hoyt
>sh...@esinet.net (Shack Toms) writes:
>
>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
>
>How about "door hinge"?
>
I recall "door 'inge" from _Poems for the John_.
It was a cockney dialect-enabled poem to rhyme orange. Not the funniest one in
the book, but OK. I wish I could find that book . . .
73,
Hoyt
Kirk Is
: SJF 1959 wrote:
Interesting:
For some people, "more hinge" would work, which is why "door hinge" makes
sense. For others "far hinge" would be a better bet?
--
Kirk Israel - kis...@cs.tufts.edu - http://www.alienbill.com
"You killed my mammy! You killed my pappy! And you split my lip!"
--Carolyn See quoting the worst mini-series ever.
Nick Spalding
> Nick Spalding (spal...@iol.ie) wrote:
> : SJF 1959 wrote:
>
> : > However, the "or/oor" match is exact
>
> : Not in standard English. I and most people on this side of the
> : Atlantic pronounce the o in orange the same as in hot or not,
> : definitely not as in door.
>
> Interesting:
> For some people, "more hinge" would work, which is why "door hinge" makes
> sense. For others "far hinge" would be a better bet?
It now occurs to me that the pronunciation of not and hot in the USA
are not what they are over here. The o is very short and I can't
think of a word which in America is said like that. Your short o's
seem to have an 'ar' sound to them.
--
Nick Spalding
Robert William Vesterman
wrote:
>Interesting:
>For some people, "more hinge" would work, which is why "door hinge" makes
>sense. For others "far hinge" would be a better bet?
"Far hinge" is almost good, but it has the problem of the "h".
"Foreign Jew" and "Orange - ew!" is the best rhyme I can come up with
so far.
GrapeApe
>are not what they are over here. The o is very short and I can't
>think of a word which in America is said like that. Your short o's
>seem to have an 'ar' sound to them.
I'm wondering exactly how you derived that from a discussion of a rhyme for
"orange." I'd bet "hottentott" would be pronounced rather similarly here AND
there.
We do have freaks that want to pronounce Washington as "Warshington", but they
have recently left Congress.
If you are saying the o in orange is the same o as in "not" or "hot", I'd buy
that similarity, but there IS an "R" in orange, and that "R" is very commonly
linked to the intitial vowel, which would naturally have an "ar" or "or' sound
in combination. Which
And since much US dialectal variance is due to Irish / English Immigration,
there is probably some variation in the vowels on those islands as well. A
musical based on "Pygmalion" comes to mind.
The Irish waitress at our local Irish pub tends to pronounce "not" to rhyme
with "gnat." No R sound there. Nor necessarily an "o" sound either.
Nick Spalding
> I'm wondering exactly how you derived that from a discussion of a rhyme for
> "orange."
It was a followup to a followup to my own post in which I had said:
Not in standard English. I and most people on this side of the
Atlantic pronounce the o in orange the same as in hot or not,
definitely not as in door.
> I'd bet "hottentott" would be pronounced rather similarly here AND
> there.
That's just the sort of example I wish I had thought of!
> We do have freaks that want to pronounce Washington as "Warshington", but they
> have recently left Congress.
>
> If you are saying the o in orange is the same o as in "not" or "hot", I'd buy
> that similarity, but there IS an "R" in orange, and that "R" is very commonly
> linked to the intitial vowel, which would naturally have an "ar" or "or' sound
> in combination.
My point was that this just does not happen in the case of the word
orange which is pronounced orringe over here and the orr doesn't
remotely rhyme with door.
--
Nick Spalding
houghi
>
> Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated ramblings of houghi <houghi...@tande.com> as follows:
> >Mike Pollock wrote:
> >>
> >> Eating an orange while making love
> >> Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
> >>
> >> --Tom Lehrer.
> >
> >That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
> >
> >Ach. Orange Shmorange.
>
> It troubled me making juice from an orange,
> 'til I found I could crush near the door hinge. -- Tim Robinson
There was a man from Orange
Who put his fruit near the door hinge
But after a time
He knew no rhyme
To the the thing he called an orange
-- houghi
Tim Robinson
>Tim Robinson wrote:
>>
>> Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated ramblings
> of houghi <houghi...@tande.com> as follows:
>> >Mike Pollock wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Eating an orange while making love
>> >> Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
>> >>
>> >> --Tom Lehrer.
>> >
>> >That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
>> >
>> >Ach. Orange Shmorange.
>>
>> It troubled me making juice from an orange,
>> 'til I found I could crush near the door hinge. -- Tim Robinson
>
>There was a man from Orange
>Who put his fruit near the door hinge
>But after a time
>He knew no rhyme
>To the the thing he called an orange
> -- houghi
What is it with colors anyway? Orange, silver, purple, beige... so hard
to ryhme. The only other non-rhyme word I can think of is "month" and I
think a dirty-minded person with a lisp could do it.
Brian Erst
> >>
> >> Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated ramblings
> > of houghi <houghi...@tande.com> as follows:
> >> >Mike Pollock wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Eating an orange while making love
> >> >> Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
> >> >>
> >> >> --Tom Lehrer.
> >> >
> >> >That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
> >> >
> >> >Ach. Orange Shmorange.
> >>
> >> It troubled me making juice from an orange,
> >> 'til I found I could crush near the door hinge. -- Tim Robinson
> >
> >There was a man from Orange
> >Who put his fruit near the door hinge
> >But after a time
> >He knew no rhyme
> >To the the thing he called an orange
> > -- houghi
>
> What is it with colors anyway? Orange, silver, purple, beige... so hard
> to ryhme. The only other non-rhyme word I can think of is "month" and I
> think a dirty-minded person with a lisp could do it.
A boy with a goose's orange,
A man with a dirty syringe,
A woman in beige, a
Wee infant in Asia,
Couldn't rhyme silver or purple.
- Brian "Oneth a month I twy to whyme..." Erst
deepstblu
> > to ryhme. The only other non-rhyme word I can think of is "month" and I
> > think a dirty-minded person with a lisp could do it.
>
> A boy with a goose's orange,
> A man with a dirty syringe,
> A woman in beige, a
> Wee infant in Asia,
> Couldn't rhyme silver or purple.
"Roses are red, and violets are purple
Sugar's sweet, and so's maple surple."
--Roger Miller, "Dang Me"
David Samuel Barr
"And though the blueberry looks a little purple,
And though your maple syrup looks a little murple,
Don't believe what you have heard or you have saw,
The Danube isn't blue, it's green."
--Spike Jones, "The Blue Danube"
(lyrics by Sol Meyer)
John M. Lawler
>>In my neck of the woods, the "oor" in "door" sounds like the word
>>"or", and the "or" in "orange" sounds like the word "are". Do "or"
>>and "are" match to you? They sure don't to me
>Well, as I explained before, all of my short vowels are pretty much alike, but
>it's closer to "or-inge" than to "ar-inge."
>Come to think of it, though, I tend to pronounce "Laurel" as "Lar-el" rather
>than "Lor-el." How about you?
You say you're from Southern California? Most native Westcoasters don't
make a distinction between the English 'Open O' phoneme that appears in
"caught" or "Dawn's", and the 'Ah' phoneme that appears in "cot" and
"Don's". This is especially confusing before resonant consonants like /r/,
which tend to neutralize other vowel distinctions, like the one between
Open O and the 'Closed O' that appears in "coat" and "Doan's"; i.e, "door"
and "hoar" and "more" and "or" are likely to contain the same vowel for
most speakers.
For more on vowel neutralization before /r/, see
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/vowels.html
For more on the Open O/Ah neutralization in the USA, with a map showing
the dialect boundaries, look (as one always should look first for any
information about the English language) in David Crystal's "Cambridge
Encyclopedia of The English Language".
-John Lawler http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/ Michigan Linguistics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Language is the most massive and inclusive art we know, a - Edward Sapir
mountainous and anonymous work of unconscious generations." Language (1921)
Joy Eldred
Page...stage...sage.
But all the other ones stump me.
Tim Robinson wrote in message <76j475$3uo...@timtroyr.ionet.net>...
>Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated
ramblings of houghi <houghi...@tande.com> as follows:
>>Tim Robinson wrote:
>>>
>>> Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated
ramblings
>> of houghi <houghi...@tande.com> as follows:
>>> >Mike Pollock wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Eating an orange while making love
>>> >> Results in bizarre enjoyment thereof.
>>> >>
>>> >> --Tom Lehrer.
>>> >
>>> >That is not a rhyme FOR, but WITH orange.
>>> >
>>> >Ach. Orange Shmorange.
>>>
>>> It troubled me making juice from an orange,
>>> 'til I found I could crush near the door hinge. -- Tim Robinson
>>
>>There was a man from Orange
>>Who put his fruit near the door hinge
>>But after a time
>>He knew no rhyme
>>To the the thing he called an orange
>> -- houghi
>
>What is it with colors anyway? Orange, silver, purple, beige... so hard
>to ryhme. The only other non-rhyme word I can think of is "month" and I
>think a dirty-minded person with a lisp could do it.
>
>
Lots42
--
Remove 1 aol.com to email me - "Pull my finger." - Superman
"You'll still be able to talk to them as well as pet them. I can't see any
downside, except that you'll have to off them first." - F8Man
Tim Robinson
>Beige is easy.
>
>Page...stage...sage.
You pronounce those as payzh, stayzh and sayzh? The "g" in Beige has
the sound of the "z" in "azure."
Tim Robinson
>Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated ramblings
> of "Joy Eldred" <j.el...@worldnet.att.net> as follows:
>>Beige is easy.
>>
>>Page...stage...sage.
>
>You pronounce those as payzh, stayzh and sayzh? The "g" in Beige has
>the sound of the "z" in "azure."
And while we're at it, I guess "azure" is another hard-to-rhyme color.
Nick Spalding
> Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated ramblings of "Joy Eldred" <j.el...@worldnet.att.net> as follows:
> >Beige is easy.
> >
> >Page...stage...sage.
>
> You pronounce those as payzh, stayzh and sayzh? The "g" in Beige has
> the sound of the "z" in "azure."
Not in my part of the world. Pronounced that way it would be baize,
as in pool table cloth.
--
Nick Spalding
Joy Eldred
Tim Robinson wrote in message <76r1nk$3sg...@camelot.ionet.net>...
>Having grown weary of my old caption, I merely quote the expurgated
ramblings of "Joy Eldred" <j.el...@worldnet.att.net> as follows:
>>Beige is easy.
>>
>>Page...stage...sage.
>
>You pronounce those as payzh, stayzh and sayzh? The "g" in Beige has
>the sound of the "z" in "azure."
>
>
I pronounce beige like bayj.
sur...@my-dejanews.com
lot...@aol.comaol.com. (Lots42) wrote:
> Orange....whore binge.
It would be good if it weren't for the "b" sound in "binge".
Ed Suranyi
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
sur...@my-dejanews.com
sjf...@aol.com (SJF 1959) wrote:
>
> >>>into afu when I responded to a crosspost about a rhyme for "orange"
> >>
> >>How about "door hinge"?
> >
>
> vowels are nearly indistinguishable. John Lawler may have a more technically
> accurate way of describing the way I talk.
But isn't there an "h" sound in "hinge" which is missing
from "orange"? Or are you Cockney?
Kim Sara
: And while we're at it, I guess "azure" is another hard-to-rhyme color.
Au contraire! It rhymes quite well with manure, ordure, and photogravure.
On second thought, that way lies madness.
An interesting aside: as a youngster, my husband encountered a reference
to the Maginot Line and, unsure of the pronunciation, looked it up in the
dictionary. It suggested the "g" sound was the same as the "z" sound in
"azure". Unfortunately, he didn't know how to pronounce that either. To
this day he calls it the "Mazinot Line".
--
Kim Sullivan
sa...@uidaho.edu
cbi...@scruznet.com
<rev...@gte.net> wrote:
> Shack Toms wrote:
>
> >[1] As I recall, my poem was...
> > We discussed matters domestic and foreign, j-
> > ust after dinner, while eating an orange.
> >It was not well received.
>
> *snicker*
>
> Reminds me of a bit of doggerel I read in the Wall Street Journal some 17 or
> so years ago. Went something like this:
>
> To find a rhyme for silver
> Or any such hard rhyme
> Requires only will, ver-
> Bosity and time.
Oh Wilbur.
Charles, a horse is a horse, of course, Bishop