Sonoda's Character Proportions
Brian Dinnigan
Whenever I draw Sonoda's characters, I experience trouble getting the
proportions correct. I've noted that this is a trend amongst many fan-
artists. It's not because they aren't good at what they do, it's because
they are using an entirely different set of proportions than he does.
If you read through this, you may find some points that you find
interesting and unrelated to art, though it may not seem as such right
now. It's not as dry as you might think, so give it a once-over. I have
included scans, an image of Nene2040 I picked up off the web and a
drawing of Nene to assist with understanding what I'm describing.
Sonoda's Character Proportions
What do Nene, Rabby, most of the Starleaf crew, Rally Vincent, Priss,
Linna, Reika at age seven and Skuld have in common? Well, simple- they
all have the same proportions [with a caveat about Priss and Linna]. Now,
you may notice a problem with this right now- how can adults have the
same proportions as children? This should not be the case, should it?
I have conducted a number of measurements and calculations to come to an
interesting conclusion: Kenichi Sonoda does not use standard measures to
draw his characters, instead opting for his own proportion system.
The standard measure of adult human height for art is eight heads. The
head is a very useful unit of measurement, all parts of the body are
proportional to it in very simple ways. For art purposes, we treat the
head as the measure of height from the base of the jaw to the top of the
skull. The torso [including the neck], for example, is three heads long.
The legs are four heads long. Many anime series utilize these conventions
for proportions. Some examples, measured by me, include Belldandy,
Shayla-Shayla, Nene Romanova from BGC 2040, Nanami, Nami [One Piece] and
Yoriko Nikaido [YUA]. Other designs opt for shortened torsos, but keep
the leg length, creating a very leggy, but more cutesy design. Many
artists will add a fraction of a head to the leg length to make the
character a bit leggier while retaining the standard torso length [Afura
Mann is a good example of this]. For younger characters, the head will
be proportionally larger, and they will be fewer heads tall [Skuld is a
good example of this].
Sonoda does not do this. Instead, he uses a measure of six heads for an
adult. There are further differences. The first is that he does not
measure heads as most artists do. His definition of a head is from the
base of the jaw to the top of the hair [barring a couple loose higher
ones]. Below is a picture of Rabby, drawn as part of a model sheet for
Gall Force. The head tick marks are clearly illustrated [six in total,
with a little bit more for the foot].
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/rabbyexample1.jpg
So, perhaps all we need to do is draw a normal head, then add a bunch of
hair and have a Sonoda head length. But we are presented with a further
problem- Sonoda does not draw a head as we would normally draw a head. A
brief digression is in order:
Normally, in an anime head, we draw the eyes such that the pupils are
bisected roughly at their halfway point by the halfway line of the head.
That sounds a bit complex, but it's like this- the face is the bottom
half of the head, the top of the eyes, eyebrows, browline and hair are
the top half. Nene from BGC 2040 is exactly like this, and is also eight
heads tall.
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/nene2040example.jpg
Sonoda's head is different. A picture below, of Catty in her android form
illustrates this perfectly:
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/cattyexample.jpg
As you can see, Catty's eyes are located in the lower half, with the rest
of her face [Note- Catty is only 5.5 heads tall]. We could alternatively
say that her upper skull is much larger, with everything else normal. The
half-way line is above the eyes, and the eyebrows are located around
here. I have conducted measurements, and found this to be the case for
most of Sonoda's female characters, including Nene, Rabby and Rally
Vincent.
Sonoda's designs present some very interesting conundrums, and he has
some rules he invariably follows. For example, the bottom of the breasts
is located above or at one "head" [Sonoda's definition] length below the
head. They cannot go any lower than this, so if they are large breasts,
they must go outwards, as we can see in certain episodes of Gunsmith Cats
[with Rally], and with certain women in Exxaxion. The whole proportioning
makes his female characters look very thin, oftentimes exaggerated by his
tendency to draw very slim hips- it is quite hard to get wide hips in his
proportions, and the necks tend to get too long. The heads also appear
out-size as a result.
Priss and Linna are special cases, as they proportion out properly using
both Sonoda's system and the normal one. This is because their large
amounts of hair hide the skull position, so we cannot tell exactly which
system was used, unless we find a picture of them with their hair wet.
The normal system, however, introduces small errors that do not exist
with Sonoda's, which works perfectly for them. As a result, the two women
should be considered "six heads" tall, and drawn according to those
standards. Basically, assume that they have the larger skull, rather than
assuming that they have an absolutely huge foomp of hair.
I can only imagine that this made for all sorts of problems with
animating the series. You would have to use the Sonoda proportions,
rather than the more common ones, which means that you cannot easily use
models or photo-references for poses. All the proportions are different-
the arms and legs are shorter versus the head, so putting them in the
right place gets harder [as an exercise, look in a mirror and touch your
nose. Note the angle of your arm and hand. Now imagine your arm was
shorter. Think about how the angle and how the position of your elbow
would change].
All the usual landmarks are gone when we draw using Sonoda's system,
though we can develop new ones. It still just isn't as intuitive as the
eight-head system, which is really easy to pick up [example- the navel on
a woman is slightly below two heads below her head. The bottom of the
knee is two heads below the base of the crotch].
Inevitably, when Sonoda was replaced, so was his proportioning system,
but only slowly. Sylvie and Anri are both "six head" tall characters.
Reika Chang, designed by Urushihara, is not. I have measured her, and she
fits perfectly with standard proportions- she is eight heads tall. To try
to make her look more like the other characters, she has a huge amount of
hair atop her head. Naoko, Nene's policewoman friend, and Lisa Vanette
are both roughly eight heads tall, with a little extra skull added to the
tops of their heads. I would presume this was done to try to make them
look more like the Sabers, but they do not proportion out properly using
the six-head system [they do, however, using the eight head system when
we disregard that little extra]. Their heads work like normal heads do as
well. This means that Lisa Vanette is more maturely proportioned than
Priss or Linna.
Episode Eight is an interesting episode if one has an interest in the
matters discussed above. For example, whenever Nene is with Naoko or
Lisa, she tends to be drawn with normal proportions [plus really big
hair]. Whenever she's around the Sabers, she's drawn with the Sonoda
proportions [with less big hair, but a bigger skull to make up for it].
Of course, given that this is animated, it's hard to pin this down
exactly, but one can see a distinct trend.
An easy way to guess [well, a rough guess] who drew the model sheets for
a main Saber character is to check out the proportioning. If the
character is drawn at six heads tall, Sonoda probably drew it. If the
character is drawn at eight, another artist was likely responsible. This
is particularly obvious for Nene, she looks much taller and thinner when
this happens. For Bubblegum Crash, the proportions for all the characters
were changed- they all have normal proportions [except for the
promotional art that Sonoda drew].
Summary
I have drawn a picture of Nene showing the differences between Sonoda's
and normal proportioning.
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/Neneexample.jpg
As we can see, there is a considerable difference between the height of
the two Nenes and the size of their bodies overall. Based on my work, I
can't help but wonder if the proportion issue helped speed Sonoda's
departure from Artmic/Movic/whatever. It presents a lot of unique
difficulties to draw, and the animation process would only exacerbate
these issues, as many drawings would have to be done uniformly and
rapidly.
--
dinnigan *at* nucleus *dot* com
Visit my page of drawings [updated Dec 31] at:
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/fanart.htm
"...magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri."
-Mixaloti equitis, "De clunibus magnis amandis oratio"
Dean 'GTVet' Smith
Brian Dinnigan <dinn...@cadvision.com> wrote:
> As we can see, there is a considerable difference between the height of
> the two Nenes and the size of their bodies overall. Based on my work, I
> can't help but wonder if the proportion issue helped speed Sonoda's
> departure from Artmic/Movic/whatever. It presents a lot of unique
> difficulties to draw, and the animation process would only exacerbate
> these issues, as many drawings would have to be done uniformly and
> rapidly.
You know Brian, you think *far too* deeply about these things. :D
Seriously, you shouldn't worry too much about getting the proportions
spot on to the original. Amongst other things it will make you go insane
and we don't want that. ;) As long as it looks right to you and to us,
your viewing public then it will be fine. I'd like to think of any
descrepencies as "Artistic License". I've seen plenty of fanart of other
anime series and they don't always look the same. :)
As for the reason why Sonada left Artmic (There was me thinking he
worked at AIC or Youmex) I would think it was more to do with money than
anything else. If not it was probably a pendantic clause in his contract.
--
Dean Smith
"gtvet444 <AT> hotmail.com"
Stephenls
http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/cattyexample.jpg
Looks really disturbing.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"That was the funnest coma ever." -Willow
Robyn, Duke of Amber
I like my Catty's with their "skin" on myself....
although, she sort of looks like a more gracile cyberevolved Adama.
Adama being Cybersapiens Robusts.
the sort of directed evoloution from Cyber-pseudo-Sapiens-peleeus
(soccor playing robots)
Boomers (in general) don't however look like the neanderthal versions
of either... almost a seperate race ..
almost alien.
Maybe Professor Stingray got his "breakthrough" working with "found"
technology form the moon.
(Curse that Commander Dawn!!!!)
Also Nene (Classic) must get pissed off racing her more "standardized"
sister.
Neil
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:27:34 -0800, Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca>
wrote:
Brian Dinnigan
news:NOSPAM-F1BC4C....@cache1-bror.server.ntli.net:
> You know Brian, you think *far too* deeply about these things. :D
Hardly, this is really fun for me. I like analysis, it's my favorite
part of a job. Well, that and writing user docs. Lets me show what I
know.
>
> Seriously, you shouldn't worry too much about getting the proportions
> spot on to the original. Amongst other things it will make you go
> insane and we don't want that. ;) As long as it looks right to you and
> to us, your viewing public then it will be fine. I'd like to think of
> any descrepencies as "Artistic License". I've seen plenty of fanart of
> other anime series and they don't always look the same. :)
I'm not really worried about that, I just wanted to see exactly what was
going on with Sonoda's drawing. It helped me out a lot, helped me to see
how I can manipulate proportion, and how I can draw "cute" without doing
so. It's fun to look deeply into things sometimes, it can give you a
greater insight on more than just what you looked into.
>
> As for the reason why Sonada left Artmic (There was me thinking he
> worked at AIC or Youmex)
>
Actually, I have no clue as to which one he worked at, so don't take
what I said about that as canon. I just said it to fill in a blank.
Brian Dinnigan
Stephenls
> I like my Catty's with their "skin" on myself....
> although, she sort of looks like a more gracile cyberevolved Adama.
> Adama being Cybersapiens Robusts.
> the sort of directed evoloution from Cyber-pseudo-Sapiens-peleeus
> (soccor playing robots)
No, I have to disagree. The disturbing skinless catty thing looks like
a robot fetus. Yuck.
Lisa Morgendunst
Brian Dinnigan <dinn...@cadvision.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9464AD297E67...@209.5.169.2>...
Disruptor
Brian Dinnigan wrote:
> Dean 'GTVet' Smith <NOS...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:NOSPAM-F1BC4C....@cache1-bror.server.ntli.net:
>
> > You know Brian, you think *far too* deeply about these things. :D
>
> Hardly, this is really fun for me. I like analysis, it's my favorite
> part of a job. Well, that and writing user docs. Lets me show what I
> know.
Well if you enjoy it, no one can argue
>
> > Seriously, you shouldn't worry too much about getting the proportions
> > spot on to the original. Amongst other things it will make you go
> > insane and we don't want that. ;) As long as it looks right to you and
> > to us, your viewing public then it will be fine. I'd like to think of
> > any descrepencies as "Artistic License". I've seen plenty of fanart of
> > other anime series and they don't always look the same. :)
>
> I'm not really worried about that, I just wanted to see exactly what was
> going on with Sonoda's drawing. It helped me out a lot, helped me to see
> how I can manipulate proportion, and how I can draw "cute" without doing
> so. It's fun to look deeply into things sometimes, it can give you a
> greater insight on more than just what you looked into.
So, have you tried the Eva girls yet in your test? Rei? Asuka? Misato?
The Sailor Senshi?
The cast of Pokemon?
They appear to be differing standards than others.
Dr Raven
Xns9464C46B7331...@209.5.169.2, "Brian Dinnigan"
<dinn...@cadvision.com> somehow managed to connect with my computer in the
year 2033 and wrote:
> Dean 'GTVet' Smith <NOS...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:NOSPAM-F1BC4C....@cache1-bror.server.ntli.net:
>
>> You know Brian, you think *far too* deeply about these things. :D
>
> Hardly, this is really fun for me. I like analysis, it's my favorite
> part of a job. Well, that and writing user docs. Lets me show what I
> know.
>>
>> Seriously, you shouldn't worry too much about getting the proportions
>> spot on to the original. Amongst other things it will make you go
>> insane and we don't want that. ;) As long as it looks right to you and
>> to us, your viewing public then it will be fine. I'd like to think of
>> any descrepencies as "Artistic License". I've seen plenty of fanart of
>> other anime series and they don't always look the same. :)
>
> I'm not really worried about that, I just wanted to see exactly what was
> going on with Sonoda's drawing. It helped me out a lot, helped me to see
> how I can manipulate proportion, and how I can draw "cute" without doing
> so. It's fun to look deeply into things sometimes, it can give you a
> greater insight on more than just what you looked into.
It's about the craft :) I feel the same way about writing, and if analysis
and learning has an effect and improves your skills then do it.
Dr Raven
--
Home Page
www.rainycitynights.com
The Technology of BGC
www.ravensgarage.com
Brian Dinnigan
> So, have you tried the Eva girls yet in your test? Rei? Asuka? Misato?
>
> The Sailor Senshi?
I seem to recall that they've got shorter torsos and longer legs.
>
> The cast of Pokemon?
>
> They appear to be differing standards than others.
Well, the kids in Pokemon seem to have the proper proportions for their
ages. I haven't done any serious study of them, and probably won't, given
time concerns. I want to focus now on applying what I've learned.
Igor Lebowski
Ya know Brian, now that you've pointed it out, my eye is picking up on
it; especially where Nene is concerned. I can pretty much immediately
tell now if someone else has drawn her using proper proportions or if
it was Sonada Drawn (or drawn to his proportions).
Now some questions for you to ponder beloved fanartist...
How do Sonada's _male_ characters proportion out? How many heads tall
is Leon, Daley, the ADPolice Chief, Mackie, etc?
How do the Hardsuits proportion out? Are they drawn to proper
proportions (assuming a head to be a little smaller than the helmet)?
And now some praise.
Yer coming along nicely.
:::saves Nene in waitress outfit to hard drive:::
Your use of coloring, line thickness, and quality has definately
improved recently and quickly (that or my sense of extended time is
entirely off [1])
^v^ Dan ^v^
[1] which is entirely possible, as I've been living in North Carolina
for a while now, and I'm convinced there's a 2:1 time slip going on
around here (in other words, 2 north Carolina hours passing for what
would be one normal hour anywhere else)
Brian Dinnigan
news:66679cc1.04010...@posting.google.com:
> Now some questions for you to ponder beloved fanartist...
>
> How do Sonada's _male_ characters proportion out? How many heads tall
> is Leon, Daley, the ADPolice Chief, Mackie, etc?
>
> How do the Hardsuits proportion out? Are they drawn to proper
> proportions (assuming a head to be a little smaller than the helmet)?
>
Well, if I have time in the future, I may go through and see what I can
get. Based on some quick looks, I'd say that the hardsuits may be close
to the six heads rule with the helmet on, maybe with a bit added on for
the heels.
> Your use of coloring, line thickness, and quality has definately
> improved recently and quickly (that or my sense of extended time is
> entirely off [1])
Thank-you for your kind words.
You may be correct. I'm really trying hard to improve now. Well, it's not
that I wasn't before, but I wasn't going about it the right way, or with
nearly enough dedication. I'm just tired of being crap, and I have no
intention of staying that way. I'll do my best to improve.
> [1] which is entirely possible, as I've been living in North Carolina
> for a while now, and I'm convinced there's a 2:1 time slip going on
> around here (in other words, 2 north Carolina hours passing for what
> would be one normal hour anywhere else)
My usenet server has been posting weird times as well.
Brian Dinnigan
Jeanne Hedge
wrote:
>How do Sonada's _male_ characters proportion out? How many heads tall
>is Leon, Daley, the ADPolice Chief, Mackie, etc?
Anyone know if that drawing from the B-Club that show's everyone's
height in relation to everybody else is online?
It's the one that sort of looks like a police lineup ^_^
Jeanne Hedge
Dr Raven
t3kgvvgfgkafo1hdt...@4ax.com, "Jeanne Hedge" <jhe...@rcn.com>
somehow managed to connect with my computer in the year 2033 and wrote:
http://www.ravensgarage.com/potw/03312002.htm
Anthony Markley
<mass snippage of text that I started to read, then decided to read in
more depth when I have time, rather than skim over and miss the point...>
> I have drawn a picture of Nene showing the differences between Sonoda's
> and normal proportioning.
>
> http://www.nucleus.com/~dinnigan/images/Neneexample.jpg
<Nene> Ah, so that's why Priss and Linna thought I'd put on weight in
episode 8. It's not that I was eating lots of cake, someone had changed
my proportions!
<Priss> Yeah, you just keep on telling yourself that...
AM
Elfbard
>Gimme a break. The only proportions you care about come in size D.
Projecting again?
Chika
Elfbard <elf...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> >Gimme a break. The only proportions you care about come in size D.
> Projecting again?
Probably due to that tit it sports between its shoulders...