Okay, so here's a question ... if you dare
Brenda
else even remotely associated with the management of Barry's career
decided to take an extended vacation in Europe for the next 3 months
and put you in charge. You get to hire temps (or interns) and run the
whole thing - all of it - for the next 3 months, and you've been
charged with three tasks:
1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
on the road this summer?
(because obviously attendance - at least at the Paris - has been a
problem)
2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
3) How do you bring in new fans?
And, when you hand the keys to the office back to Garry at the end of
3 months, how would you fill in these blanks:
"Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
was when I __________."
and
"Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's
___________________________."
Any takers out there?
Brenda
Scooter
> Let's say Garry, Rob, Kirsten, Chris, Adam, Vicki, Marc and anyone else
> even remotely associated with the management of Barry's career decided
> to take an extended vacation in Europe for the next 3 months and put you
> in charge. You get to hire temps (or interns) and run the whole thing -
> all of it - for the next 3 months, and you've been charged with three
> tasks:
>
> 1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
> on the road this summer?
> (because obviously attendance - at least at the Paris - has been a
> problem)
Drop ticket prices. Stop charging over a grand for fans to get a chance
to breathe Barry's air.
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
Perhaps the star and manager could treat fans like people instead of
dollar signs, or the enemy if they don't behave like Stepford wives. Stop
pitting fans against each other. Go to a customer relations class and
learn how to not piss off the people buying tickets and merchandise.
> 3) How do you bring in new fans?
If you mean how does Barry acquire new fans, he can do that simply by
being the really great performer he is, following my #1 suggestion above,
and RELEASING NEW MUSIC, instead of recycled oldies. And more people
might join the BMIFC if the BarryNet didn't look basically the same as in
1997. Pay Gary Oye some bucks and get that thing updated.
> And, when you hand the keys to the office back to Garry at the end of
> 3 months, how would you fill in these blanks:
>
> "Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I
... replaced your entire staff with people who (a) you don't know, (b)
aren't members of SigEp, and (c) aren't related to you."
> and
>
> "Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's
...cancel your Twitter account."
--
Scooter
dcsharon
> >
> 1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
> on the road this summer?
1. I would ask Barry to record snippets of the show for you tube, or
any social media.
2. I would ask the Barry to add at least 1 Mayflower song to every
show, and 1 from an album that wasn't a cover album.
3. I would ask the Barry to honor his obligations that are still out
there (San Diego, Seattle) as the longer those people wait for you to
come back, the longer they can say "he's not coming and doesn't honor
his commitments."
4. I would ask Barry to take 6 months off and change his schedule to
be Thurs/Fri/Sat shows. If fans find out that he's putting the gems
we want to see into the shows on Friday and Sat night, I think the
attendance will go up. Fix the sound issues, change the graphics in
the videos and revamp the show so it's different from the Hilton. This
show is primarily the same show at the Hilton with new video screens.
And, ditch the skits that have been there forever (NYC Rhythm and
Grandpa Joe). Maybe tell some of the stories of Red Rocks and
Bette ... his jingle days ..or the struggles he had getting original
music published. He's been in the "biz" 30+ years. He has to have
stories about his past that he can share.
5. Lower ticket prices.
6. Allow meet and greets that aren't $1000
7. Disallow Multiple platinums
8. Change the Manilow fund so those that donate to the Manilow Music
fund can have their donation funded into their local community music
projects, not Las Vegas.
9. Change the seating at the arenas so the aisles to go the stage. I
can't believe he's still getting threats, but the seating in the arena
shows if you are in the first 4 rows is uncomfortable and a danger if
there is an emergency. All the seats go straight across the stage
with no break. People LIKE to come up and take a photo and if you
don't want them going past the 4th row, put an usher or guard there.
Civilians think he's "such a nice guy" to allow fans to come up and
take a photo. It's good PR.
10. Bring Roberta back (or at least have someone on the staff that is
fan-friendly).
>
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
Treat the fans like adults, and lose the SMSSG crap. Stop pitting
fans against each other and rewarding only those that seems to be kool-
aid drinkers. Dialogue can be healthy, but not when you've been given
a steady diet of "best show ever", "finger wiggles" and facial
expressions. As discussed in another post, Garry wrote to fans when
they gave a blow by blow of the show, but Dana's reviews are
prominently posted, and give a song list, and notes any changes.
Change the Barrynet so it's 21st century, and pay someone to do it,
not have a fan who holds the "keys" having power to censor other
fans. It's not fair.
Lower the prices of conventions and make them more reasonable. Tell
us what we, as fans, can do to help Barry's career, not make christmas
ornaments or a birthday card for Barry. Tell us that Barry is going to
be there. And stop with the double edged words that we have to try and
guess what the meaning is.
I agree with Scooter - lose the twitter account, unless there's
something of value to post.
> 3) How do you bring in new fans?
Use every bit of social media you can. Barry was his best when he was
awkward and charming. Now his answers on every talk show are the same
- it's all about the music, just the music. If nothing else, get him a
different acting coach so he can say "I'm obsessed with collecting sea
glass, cows, or playing scrabble" and mean it. Make him more human.
Tell us the dogs names.
Look at what the other artists in your genre are doing - Buble,
Groban, Osmond, Elton, etc. Some are very fan-friendly. Steal from
them! $60(ish) to Groban's fan club gets you private videos and
messages.
> And, when you hand the keys to the office back to Garry at the end of
> 3 months, how would you fill in these blanks:
>
> "Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I hired people who are trained in good customer service".
>
> "Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's
> _Be nice (sorry - couldn't resist that one) "
>
>
(DC) Sharon
Brenda
> 1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
> on the road this summer?
> (because obviously attendance - at least at the Paris - has been a
> problem)
Book some charity concerts in the Gulf region and get your PR firm to
announce all the profits will go into the new Manilow Gulf Animal
Rescue Fund or the new Manilow Wetland Restoration Project (I know a
lot of people down there are hurting too, but you're not gonna piss
off anyone by trying to help some poor bird flapping oil-caked
feathers..)
>
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
1) I know I sound like a broken record, but offer up some contests -
raffles - ANYTHING to let poor people have a shot at getting to Vegas
and meeting Barry backstage.
2) Stop excluding people from stuff (unless there's a valid
restraining order because some fan did something that counts as a
legitimate danger to Barry or his staff.) and
3) And if Barry won't blog no matter how much we beg, then I say we
get him drunk, put a Oija board in front of him and convince him to
start recording hotlines again because, dammit, Judy Garland said
so.
>
> 3) How do you bring in new fans?
Get Barry on every major talk show there is and have him talk candidly
about how happy he is about finally coming out. And then get him to
release some new music. New fans need to get a feeling that he's REAL
and INTERESTING. (and right now, he is - quite frankly - neither, at
least not to potential new fans). In the old days, a lot of us fell
in love with him because yeah, sure, the music was good, but he also
hung out with Linda Allen (who wasn't a beauty queen, so right away a
lot of us thought, "oh good, he isn't a shallow jerk") and had a
really cute puppy dog pictured on the back of his album. So get
someone to interview him at home. Playing with his dogs. And then
talking about the special man in his life. People fall in love with
people who love animals (see #1) and who are honest about who they
are.
>
> And, when you hand the keys to the office back to Garry at the end of
> 3 months, how would you fill in these blanks:
>
> "Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I got a chance to convince Barry that, contrary to what you've evidently told him, fans DO have good ideas sometimes."
>
> and
>
> "Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's for the two of you to stop playing games, be honest, be real, and move away from southern California if that's what it would take to do that. You're both too old for all this silly, pretentious, celebrity/diva nonsense."
Brenda
Faithful fan
Lowering ticket prices I think is a good idea but who is dictating the
ticket prices, Manilow management or Paris management? They might have
to charge a certain ticket price to make a profit on the performance.
Paris is a perfect venue being on the strip but they might generate
more non Manilow faithful fans by lowering the ticket price.
wac...@aol.com
Without looking at any other answers, I would have to say that there
are a number of ways to market his Las Vegas show. For one thing,
there has to be blanket marketing to everyone, not just to the chosen
few (who will eventually run out of money any way). Also, Manilow.com
has to be revamped. If I hired anyone, it would be a professional web
consultant who had experience building websites for celebrities.
Also, Barry needs someone who can help him connect with his fans (not
protect him from them). It's such a huge mistake to alienate people,
and it has and will continue to trickle down to profits. I also think
that having people who can work with Barry to be more accessible on
stage and change up his show from time to time in a more significant
way that would make the general public and possible new fans to keep
coming back for more. Finally, why are ticket prices so friggin'
high???? I know no other entertainer (not even Madonna) who charges as
much as Barry. Lower the prices and you sell out arena shows.
Also, having people who know how to relate to fans would help his
image. Could you imagine how much more positive this board alone
would be if fans were treated with dignity and respect? The might
actually attract more "normal" fans and begin alienating the "crazy"
fans who fuel things like getting people randomly kicked off message
boards. By treating fans with dignity and respect, fans boards
automatically become more positive which would negate the constant
policing of their fan based message boards. By focusing more actual
management tasks and less on policing "so-called fans", Barry's career
track would be more focused and long-range. For instance, helping his
find a record company who respects his creativity and encourage him to
think outside the box. For instance, Ozzie Osborne has a very
reasonable package he offers at his shows whereby couples can actually
get married during his show. The package includes all kinds of neat
things and would be perfect for his new, more romantic show at the
Paris in Vegas which has been a very popular destination wedding
location. He needs to have more affordable packages for his show
which would not just attract the die-hard fans who live to breath his
air, but newer fans could be drawn in by packages that would be geared
more towards them. Finally, I would not tweet or post one thing on
his (Barry's behalf). He would have to learn to do it himself, just
like every other celebrity in this business. That alone could open
the door for more fans.
"Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I started respecting the fans and treated them with the dignity and respect that they deserve".
"Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you is stop
tweeting nonsensical stuff and use Twitter as a marketing tool instead
of using it to torture fans."
Thanks for the great question!
Susan
Jackie
> Let's say Garry, Rob, Kirsten, Chris, Adam, Vicki, Marc and anyone
> else even remotely associated with the management of Barry's career
> decided to take an extended vacation in Europe for the next 3 months
> and put you in charge. You get to hire temps (or interns) and run the
> whole thing - all of it - for the next 3 months, and you've been
> charged with three tasks:
>
> 1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
> on the road this summer?
> (because obviously attendance - at least at the Paris - has been a
> problem)
Just brainstorming off the top of the head right now.
Hire or figure out how to:
- Negotiate or renegotiate with Paris and lower ticket prices.
- Pair up or package a deal with Priceline or a vacation at Vegas type
organization so that his show is reasonably priced and included in on
some deals.
- Get Barry's voice on animated shows, like the Simpsons, figure out
ways he can be a cameo on shows like The Office or even more bizarre -
but fun, True Blood! (For those who read the books, they can't/won't
cast Bubba (Elvis), but it would be a hoot to see a Vegas style act /
celebrity in there.Vampires are huge right now, so being in something
you wouldn't normally associate him with with be awesome!)
- Get some YouTube videos out there and advertise on web sites where
people are checking out vacations or trips. Flash animations or
blurbs in local media / news web sites.
- As opposed to fan club discounts, recognize professions and arrange
a discount for them through their professional organizations.
(Nurses, teachers, etc.)
- News worthy items, press releases. A release of a new song?
Donations to another public school? How about presenting or meeting
the school -- pictures with the students and staff? Right now,
budgets are so very tight across the nation and his bringing a
spotlight to this issue and how vital and important the fine arts are
in the schools would be so welcome - not just in CA but ALL OVER!
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
It'd take more than three months on this one.
For starters, announcements by Barry - himself. Tweets or Facebook
videos or blogging about the music. Elevate the general discussion to
the music, to the art -- so there aren't stupid, rabid posts about his
pants, etc. Once a week is sufficient, but something that indicates:
"Hello to all of you supporting me all these years. I'm reaching out
a bit to recognize you and discuss the music."
A revamped web site and a way to try to reach all those fans that have
drifted back that the house philosophy here isn't "Go away" but "We
miss you and want you back." E-mails or reaching out via the social
media (FB/Twitter, etc.) Soliciting ideas from the fans asking what
they want -- or ideas they have.
Notes or recognition when a fan writes or as a question. Some small
feedback so they know they are valued, appreciated and their thoughts
are considered.
Contests each of the three months - prizes ranging from a t-shirt or a
hat, to a platinum pass. Bring fun and humor back in to being a fan.
Laughter and light heartedness make for a lasting bond, bring up the
endorphins, make for a much more welcoming climate.
> 3) How do you bring in new fans?
Some things mentioned above would assist in this dept. When he's
visible and making cameos, it raises awareness. When he's affordable,
more friends/civilians can attend with those who have been fans for
awhile.
>
> And, when you hand the keys to the office back to Garry at the end of
> 3 months, how would you fill in these blanks:
>
> "Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I made Camp M more open and welcoming."
>
> and
>
> "Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's go on vacation more often and let others come up withe new ideas."
Hi.
1) Deferred because I don't know enough about the Paris requirements
and other deals involved with marketing LV. Also can't comment on the
new Paris show as I haven't seen it - I've only seen the Hilton shows.
2) Stop pitting the fans against each other. Don't give me that dumb
look like you dont' know what I'm talking about. Any time certain
fans are publicly acknowledged as "more equal than others" that split
happens. Each and every musical act that has pulled that stunt
practically castrated themselves. Turning your enemies against each
other only works in international warfare and even then the effect is
temporary at best. If you're scrambling for sales of any kind, you
can't afford to chop off a huge slice of them. Disband the "Mafia" -
now. At least stop rewarding them with positive feedback.
Not everyone is a nutjob. Yes, be secure and be safe because there
ARE a lot of nutjobs. However, someone who has critical comments
about a show is NOT, in and of itself, qualified as a nutjob. Empty
email threats make you look like you're not in control of your own
org. If someone is seriously a problem, be ready to go to court and
file the proper paperwork. Otherwise, it's just annoying. You can
handle it.
Decide what social media you want to use. Then assign a person to
maintain each outlet. (This includes Ning, the BarryNet, what have
you.) Professionals, not fans. (See above re: pitting fans against
each other.) Fans can jump that line between fandom and
professionalism but make sure they've "come over to the dark side"
before you put them in charge of anything. Establish CLEAR AND FAIR
AND CONSISTENT rules for their use. Start each outlet off with a
clean slate by posting the rules. Establish which outlets are open to
the public to participate, and which ones are "value added" services
associated with fan club membership. Have a mandatory weekly meeting
of all interns/staff maintaining online outreach regarding issues that
come up (good as well as bad) including ideas for outreach, fires to
put out, potential nutjobs to be watched, and situations that may lead
to modifying the rules. Make it on Skype if you have to.
3) See #2.
"Garry, I feel the biggest contribution I made to your organization
> was when I __________." added structure to the online outreach to make it easier to manage with less time and effort.
"Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's
> ___________________________." Don't change everything. You obviously have a handle on how to manage your acts because you're adding more to them, and getting them ridiculous amounts of publicity in spite of how different they are (even slackers like Nemesis - good for you for cutting those clowns loose.) Don't even change the way you're using Stiletto as a way of mentoring your younger SigEp brothers. My husband and I wear Greek letters too and mentoring is the most important thing alumni/ae can do to help the next generations transition from college to "real adult" life. More Greek alumni/ae need to see examples of that to follow. Just by implementing basic structure as described above in online outreach will not only bring in more fans and more sales, but will make it easier for your staff to keep order and keep the (real) nutjobs from climbing up your butt.
shado...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Number one I would get Glen Barros' phone numeber. Call him up and
tell him that my client Barry Manilow want's to come back to Concord
Records. Where my client can record brand new material and not have
to record covers. I would shore up the Concord contract before I lay
the
bad news on Sony/BMG head Barry Weise that my client Barry Manilow
wants out of his contract. He is sick and tired of putting out the
covers
that Clive Davis wants. Barry and I will be willing to pay whatever
they
want to get Barry out of his current Arista contract. Then once Barry
and Enoch Anderson have Fifteen Minutes on a demo CD we'll take
it to Concord for them to hear. Barry will be able to hire the best
studio
musicians and backup singers for this. Then I will have a CD debut
for Fifteen Minutes. It will be done exactly like Barbra Streisand's
One Night Only Barbra Striesand and quartet at the Village Vanguard.
The only difference is that the venue will be a bigger one than the
123 seat Village Vanguard. The venue won't be real big like MSG
or Carnegie Hall. Those who will be invited will be BMIFC members
who joined the Barry Manilow Fan Club between it's inception in 1978
and December 1979 before the club went international. If there are
not enough fan club member from back then. Then fan who joined after
January 1980 would get a a crack at the tickets. Tickets would be a
$100 with the entire amount going to the Manilow Music Project. The
money will be given to Progressive High School and two other High
Schools that use to be Eastern District High School before they were
split into three schools and given a name change. Barbra's night at
the
Village Vanguard was both audio and video taped for a CD, CD/DVD
dual disc and a DVD. The money from those would be going to the
Manilow Music Project also.
Number two I would hire the best web designer out there. He or she
would then get together with me and Barry to discuss the Barry Manilow
Internet Fan Club. Barry will have to sit in on the discussions about
the
site. This will take the place of the Barry Net Homepage, Manilow.com,
ManilowUK, ManilowUK.Ning and My Manilow Network.Ning. There would
be all sorts of stuff on the site. along with contests to win prizes.
Tickets,
merchandises and etc. Barry will do a twice a year chat on the sites
chat
section. It would not be like the one Barry did a while back. Where
fans
could post stuff below the Barry and fans chat at the top.
As for BMIFC staff they will be people who don't know much about
Barry.
So that when you call you will get prompt service . The staff will be
very
nice to fans. But they will not have time for idle chit chat with
fans. So no
asking any questions about Barry. Since they won't be able to answer
them.
Same will hold true for the online staff.
Garry my biggets contribution was to get Barry a better contract where
he
can be totally creative. Also to get him away from his crutch Clive
Davis.
Plus teach Barry to put his foot down and say NO! when he has to.
Garry my advice is to follow Joseph Manilow's piece of advice and"Be
Nice".
to the fans But also be firm and say NO! and mean it. When you need to
say
NO!
Linda
Linda
Scooter
>>
>> "Garry, if there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's
>> ___________________________."
>
>
> Retire and take your friends and family with you. out of all of them
> only one person seems to have cared about customer relations and i'm not
> sure any of them know how to correctly handle Barry's career. their egos
> seem to get in the way all too often.
I posted the other day that I was going through some old papers, and found
some correspondence between GCK and a local club. Reb's comment above
reminded me that I also found another piece of correspondence I had
forgotten about.
It was a letter a fan had sent to him way back in 1988. If she were a fan
today, she'd no doubt be posting here on the newsgroup because she had the
kahunas to criticize one of his business ideas. Remember DEC? She was
upset that even though he insisted Barry had nothing to do with DEC, fans
were lured into that "business opportunity" thinking Barry was connected
to it. She basically said he was using fans' emotional ties to Barry in
order to get them to work with DEC by doing things like having a
recruiting table at a BMIFC convention, offering front row Manilow tickets
for high sales, etc. I call this practice "oblique inference." He could
swear all day that Barry had nothing to do with the company, but he used
his client/partner's fan base as a pool of prospective sales people.
Therefore, the fans felt there was a Manilow connection, which is the only
reason some of them signed up. She also felt the whole DEC business
premise was a poor idea. In reality it only lasted a fairly short time --
maybe a couple of years, if that.
Anyway, she received a reply, but it wasn't a professionally typed letter.
It was her original letter with his snarky notes scribbled in red pen in
the margins. There was a "received" date stamp at the top with the date
it landed in the Stiletto office. It was a Saturday. She had included a
SASE, and from the postmark date on the envelope, it appeared he received
her letter, read as he scribbled his comments, and fired it back out in
anger the same day. With all the red notes and arrows, looks like a paper
graded by an angry teacher.
BTW, also in typical fashion, following his angry scribbles, at the bottom
he wrote (no doubt dripping with sarcasm), "Take care -- always great to
hear from you." And he signed it "Garry" with a long tail on the "y"
which was smeared. I had a mental image of him signing his name, and
whipping the paper off the desk to fold it, smearing the ink in the
process. She replied in a very professional manner, but, of course, never
heard from him again. She long ago "went away."
I suppose not much has changed in some areas over the last 22 years...
--
Scooter
Brenda
I started this thread so we could get some constructive suggestions -
and man, for a bunch of "mentally disturbed outcasts" - what great
ideas surfaced! Seems like there are a lot of intelligent people
posting here. (Which is probably one reason Barry monitors what's said
here).
I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to give folks an
opportunity to take shots at Garry.
And if anyone cares-
I have one opinion of him:
He is two different people.
One I love madly -
And the other one totally creeps me out.
But back to the topic at hand - I just love reading everyone's ideas.
Sure hope people keep sharing!
Brenda
Scooter
> I just wanted to clarify -
>
> I started this thread so we could get some constructive suggestions -
> and man, for a bunch of "mentally disturbed outcasts" - what great
> ideas surfaced! Seems like there are a lot of intelligent people
> posting here. (Which is probably one reason Barry monitors what's said
> here).
>
> I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to give folks an
> opportunity to take shots at Garry.
I don't think he respects fans, and was showing yet another example. I
thought it fit in this thread because I think he's one of the reasons the fan
base is shrinking.
> And if anyone cares-
>
> I have one opinion of him:
>
> He is two different people.
>
> One I love madly -
>
> And the other one totally creeps me out.
No matter how many good things he's done in his life, I sure as heck don't
love him. He doesn't creep me out, although I abhor some of the things he's
done.
--
Scooter
wac...@aol.com
> I just wanted to clarify -
>
> I started this thread so we could get some constructive suggestions -
> and man, for a bunch of "mentally disturbed outcasts" - what great
> ideas surfaced! Seems like there are a lot of intelligent people
> posting here. (Which is probably one reason Barry monitors what's said
> here).
>
> I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to give folks an
> opportunity to take shots at Garry.
>
> And if anyone cares-
>
> I have one opinion of him:
>
> He is two different people.
>
> One I love madly -
>
> And the other one totally creeps me out.
>
> But back to the topic at hand - I just love reading everyone's ideas.
> Sure hope people keep sharing!
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
> Scooter wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not at all surprised by some of the amazing ways fans from this
board would answer these questions. There are some great ideas here
and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone in the "home office" (you
know who you are) wouldn't jump on a few of these ideas (they would be
fools not to).
As for Garry, in lieu of taking shots at him (I've already done more
than my share) in hindsight, he was hired for personal reasons and not
because he would be a good manager. I'm sure on some levels he does
have great managerial and/or marketing skills and since he has a very
personal relationship with Barry, whom we all know is a highly
sensitive man, I suspect that heaps of baggage are thrust upon Garry
from time to time. A lot for one many to carry in addition to his own
baggage, which is blatantly clear to at least me.
He does not creep me out in any way, shape or form, but I do find the
fact that he can be gracious and charming to one group of fans, while
attacking others is quite disturbing. One who deals with the public
(as he chooses to do), needs to learn the value of not reacting.
Susan
Scooter
>
> As for Garry, in lieu of taking shots at him (I've already done more
> than my share) in hindsight, he was hired for personal reasons and not
> because he would be a good manager. I'm sure on some levels he does
> have great managerial and/or marketing skills and since he has a very
> personal relationship with Barry, whom we all know is a highly
> sensitive man, I suspect that heaps of baggage are thrust upon Garry
> from time to time. A lot for one many to carry in addition to his own
> baggage, which is blatantly clear to at least me.
>
> He does not creep me out in any way, shape or form, but I do find the
> fact that he can be gracious and charming to one group of fans, while
> attacking others is quite disturbing. One who deals with the public
> (as he chooses to do), needs to learn the value of not reacting.
I wouldn't be surprised if much of his reacting comes from the reaction of
the star demanding reaction from the manager.
--
Scooter
Brenda
Who's the real asshole?
After all these years, I honestly can't answer that question. Makes
my head ache.
Brenda
Scooter
> So the 64,000 question is really:
>
> Who's the real asshole?
>
> After all these years, I honestly can't answer that question. Makes
> my head ache.
Two peas in a pod...?
--
Scooter
wac...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
If by "assholes" you mean those who have poor coping skills, then I
would have to say it's a toss up.
Susan
wac...@aol.com
Exactly what I meant when I commented about all the baggage that Garry
is required to carry around with him (his and Barry's). I'm sure it's
a daunting task and one which he is not really qualified to handle, at
least on a personal level.
He has been pushed to the point of irrational behavior at times,
especially most recently with how he treated Sharon (Nash's Grandma).
Such an action is unjustifiable under any circumstance and certainly
is, in no way, considered professional behavior. Then again, his
relationship with Barry is not based on a professional relationship.
Susan
Dawn
I've posted a few thoughts on my blog about this:
http://genealotech.blogspot.com/2010/06/could-it-be-magic.html
Aloe Vera Dawn
Nash's Gramma
been said. Great ideas, one and all. But one thing occurred to me on
my way to work this morning. I had popped in a mix tape of Barrys
songs, including some only sung in concert. I listened about halfway
through one song, then turned it off. I still can't listen to his
songs without feeling a sense of incredible sadness because the events
of a few months ago have forever soured how I feel about him. I can't
divorce the music from the actions taken on his behalf or at his
behest.
I realized that all the purging of fans from sites, the nasty
treatment of older fans, etc, is deliberate. They WANT the older fans
to go away, and stay away, because we remember. We remember when it
was good and wonderful, and we miss it, and we have only Barry's best
interests at heart when we offer suggestions and commentary. The newer
fans don't know any better. They only know the covers and the the
SMSSG image. Yeah, there's some older fans who ACT like the new fans,
but THEY are the ones who could actually be classified as "misfits" if
I wanted to be that unkind. (the initials LW come to mind) The newer
fans accept what tptb toss at them because they don't know any
better.
And as Scooters posts about the "older" days proves, nothing really
has ever changed in Manilowland. So there is no realistic expectation
that anything will. You all have put forward some excellent
suggestions, but I seriously doubt that anyone will implement them. To
do so would be to pull back the curtain and risk letting Dorothy see
the wizard. And we all know how that turned out.
Sharon
wac...@aol.com
I do agree with you about purging fans who know too much. From their
perspective, fans' ignorance is their bliss.
I don't agree that they wouldn't take any suggestions from here. They
have in the past and will continue to do so without giving any credit
to any one of us, of course. It is one of the many reasons they haunt
this message board and one of their less endearing qualities.
Susan
wac...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Very nice Dawn!
Susan
Dawn
Thank you!
And yes, I agree with you about that, the other thought being that
Barry has his fans at a distance because that's how he wants it. So
all of our ideas about changing how the fans (namely the long term
ones like us here) isn't going to happen because Barry would probably
never allow it. Again, it would be pulling that curtain shielding the
"wizard" too much.
Aloe Vera Dawn
Scooter
>
> I can't really add anything to the conversation that hasn't already
> been said. Great ideas, one and all. But one thing occurred to me on
> my way to work this morning. I had popped in a mix tape of Barrys
> songs, including some only sung in concert. I listened about halfway
> through one song, then turned it off. I still can't listen to his
> songs without feeling a sense of incredible sadness because the events
> of a few months ago have forever soured how I feel about him. I can't
> divorce the music from the actions taken on his behalf or at his
> behest.
As far as not being able to listen to his music, you may get over that with
time. Don't listen to the live stuff for a while. It's too raw. I'm able
to enjoy his older stuff, and HATM. And I do think his last Christmas album
is the best thing he's done since 2001. But I could care less about TV
appearances or seeing him in concert. My last concert was Jan. 2008 in
Dallas, and that was it for me. My husband and I went, and it cost us over
$300 total for seats half way down the side of an arena. And I basically
felt nothing. So I'm saving lots of money. :-)
> I realized that all the purging of fans from sites, the nasty
> treatment of older fans, etc, is deliberate. They WANT the older fans
> to go away, and stay away, because we remember. We remember when it
> was good and wonderful, and we miss it, and we have only Barry's best
> interests at heart when we offer suggestions and commentary. The newer
> fans don't know any better. They only know the covers and the the
> SMSSG image. Yeah, there's some older fans who ACT like the new fans,
> but THEY are the ones who could actually be classified as "misfits" if
> I wanted to be that unkind. (the initials LW come to mind) The newer
> fans accept what tptb toss at them because they don't know any
> better.
>
> And as Scooters posts about the "older" days proves, nothing really
> has ever changed in Manilowland. So there is no realistic expectation
> that anything will. You all have put forward some excellent
> suggestions, but I seriously doubt that anyone will implement them. To
> do so would be to pull back the curtain and risk letting Dorothy see
> the wizard. And we all know how that turned out.
But that's why this newsgroup is important. It does pull back the curtain,
at least a little bit, because people can speak freely about all the
forbidden stuff. Some things really have never changed, and never will in
fanland. But as Susan said, tptb do haunt this newsgroup, and steal ideas.
So maybe they'll use some of what's been posted here. Maybe they'll do
something about Barry's marketing, which I feel has been abismal for decades.
They're marketing him as something he isn't. They need to fix that, and
market him for what he is -- a talented guy who can produce wonderful music.
A real person instead of someone spewing out the same answers in interviews
that he's been giving for the last 30 years. Even civilians are picking up
on his plastic-ness -- and I'm not only talking about his face. ;-)
For any intelligent fan the frustration of how tptb operate can be
infuriating, mainly because we can't do much about it, other than discuss it.
So you either figure out how to deal with it, like venting here, and learning
how to separate the music from all the rest, or you "go away." Although I've
thought many, many times about "going away," I'm still here. Part of that is
that I don't want to give them the satisfaction of running me off. But part
of it is that I enjoy discussions with other fans of this man I've invested
so much money and emotion in for a very long time. :-)
--
Scooter
Hi.
They've got their foot in the door, IMHO. The sites for the Manilow
Music Fund and the concerts that supported it were created by a group
called MindFlood.
I've seen a LOT of website company sites - and this one is the most
brazen, forward, ballsy thing I've ever seen. And that's a GREAT
thing! Not just the blatant innuendo, it's the message behind it.
Websites are not just about conveying information. If they were, we
wouldn't have gotten beyond plain blue links on a steel-grey
background and Times font back in 1995. They are about persuasion and
evoking emotion. So for Barry and an act like his which is all about
evoking emotion, these guys are right up his alley. This is the group
that should be running All Things Manilow Online.
YBA/Kudzu
Scooter
MindFlood also created the Starz merchandise site, which is pretty bland. It
could use some punching up, too.
BTW, all the theme o the MindFlood website, including all those red hearts,
fits with Barry's Paris theme.
Also, I have to say waiting for the homepage to load, (which took a while,
and I've got a pretty fast connection), I kept thinking of Barry sitting
there smoking, smoking, smoking, smoking, coughing, hacking, coughing,
hacking... ;-)
--
Scooter
Jackie
> I just wanted to clarify -
>
> I started this thread so we could get some constructive suggestions -
> and man, for a bunch of "mentally disturbed outcasts" - what great
> ideas surfaced! Seems like there are a lot of intelligent people
> posting here. (Which is probably one reason Barry monitors what's said
> here).
>
> I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to give folks an
> opportunity to take shots at Garry.
>
> And if anyone cares-
>
> I have one opinion of him:
>
> He is two different people.
>
> One I love madly -
>
> And the other one totally creeps me out.
>
> But back to the topic at hand - I just love reading everyone's ideas.
> Sure hope people keep sharing!
>
> Brenda
I think the topic is a great thread. If anything, it gets good ideas
out in the open and perhaps we mention them hoping the ideas get
borrowed or stolen.
Re: Garry, I don't know the guy except through the few postings he's
presented and, of course, the experiences others here have shared
about him. I could be way off base on this, but what I do see or take
out of it all are fans being played or being played with --
manipulated. This is my perception, but basically I am very wary and
don't find that a trustworthy or admirable trait.
I know we all have our moments and we're all human -- but do expect
better treatment of long time fans and am saddened when either reading
a tirade against a newsgroup and charge of being "mentally disturbed
outcasts" or watching a fan get banished over expressing an opinion
where as a normal civilian would never be treated that way.
I'm intrigued by the dividing up of a person - the one side you dearly
love and the one that creeps you out. I think we do that with Barry
as well. You hear about one side of him that is persnickety,
controlling, perfectionistic, and brat-like. Then there is a charming
side. If all parts are schmushed together, would it be someone you'd
generally trust or value as a friend or not?
Jackie
Scooter
>
> I think the topic is a great thread. If anything, it gets good ideas
> out in the open and perhaps we mention them hoping the ideas get
> borrowed or stolen.
>
> Re: Garry, I don't know the guy except through the few postings he's
> presented and, of course, the experiences others here have shared
> about him. I could be way off base on this, but what I do see or take
> out of it all are fans being played or being played with --
> manipulated. This is my perception, but basically I am very wary and
> don't find that a trustworthy or admirable trait.
Absolutely. Happened to me as it's happened to many. Luckily I figured
it out pretty quickly, and repaired the damage.
He also attempts to do it with his Twitter account. That's why I cringe
when fans reply to him. Maybe they'll learn one of these days that he's
not their buddy.
> I know we all have our moments and we're all human -- but do expect
> better treatment of long time fans and am saddened when either reading
> a tirade against a newsgroup and charge of being "mentally disturbed
> outcasts" or watching a fan get banished over expressing an opinion
> where as a normal civilian would never be treated that way.
>
> I'm intrigued by the dividing up of a person - the one side you dearly
> love and the one that creeps you out. I think we do that with Barry
> as well. You hear about one side of him that is persnickety,
> controlling, perfectionistic, and brat-like. Then there is a charming
> side. If all parts are schmushed together, would it be someone you'd
> generally trust or value as a friend or not?
Speaking for myself, I think...not. But I do appreciate the talent.
--
Scooter
Hi.
>
> - Show quoted text -
That could be MF taking guidance from the folks in the office who
decided on what the merchandizing site should look like.
Merchandising has to focus on the products for sale and make it easy
to click through and make your purchase. Understandable, but you have
a point. I can't tell you how many times I've done work for someone
while thinking in the back of my head, "You want WHAT?? What the hell
are you THINKING???"
Re: loading time. Yeah, all-Flash site. I rarely recommend that.
But again, they're promoting their technology so they have to be a bit
fancy schmancier than the regular job.
Jackie
> Let's say Garry, Rob, Kirsten, Chris, Adam, Vicki, Marc and anyone
> else even remotely associated with the management of Barry's career
> decided to take an extended vacation in Europe for the next 3 months
> and put you in charge. You get to hire temps (or interns) and run the
> whole thing - all of it - for the next 3 months, and you've been
> charged with three tasks:
>
> 1) How do you increase attendance/hype for his shows at the Paris and
> on the road this summer?
> (because obviously attendance - at least at the Paris - has been a
> problem)
>
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
>
> 3) How do you bring in new fans?
>
I read this today and figured maybe if the message were coming from a
business like Starbucks vs mere fans -- perhaps it'd be mulled more:
http://mashable.com/2010/06/08/starbucks-mashable-summit/
Jackie
Dawn
Great article! This is exactly the key these days if you want people
walking through your doors. I have no idea if anything will come from
this discussion, but at least it's out there - and not where it will
be deleted. :o)
Aloe Vera Dawn
kimc
> I've posted a few thoughts on my blog about this:http://genealotech.blogspot.com/2010/06/could-it-be-magic.html
>
> Aloe Vera Dawn
Great job, Dawn! I've got an iMac at home, and am seriously missing
it, especially after seeing what you did! A young friend summed up
my feelings about Windows pretty well here:
Kim
Dawn
> On Jun 7, 5:15 pm, Dawn <dawnbushm...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > I've posted a few thoughts on my blog about this:http://genealotech.blogspot.com/2010/06/could-it-be-magic.html
>
> > Aloe Vera Dawn
>
> Great job, Dawn! I've got an iMac at home, and am seriously missing
> it, especially after seeing what you did! A young friend summed up
> my feelings about Windows pretty well here:
>
>
> Kim
Hi Kim!
Thank you for the compliment on the video, and yes I love my Mac. :o)
I just finished watching the YouTube video. That is TOO FUNNY!! I
got a chuckle over using an iPhone for the microphone, but the blue
screen of death at the end really had it for me. LOL!
That was a great parody, though!
Yeah, I helped our 8th grade teacher a few weeks ago make the year end
video for the class graduating our school. She did most of the work,
I just helped get the audio working and then showed her how iDVD
works. She has a brand new iMac. You know I was salivating! LOL.
Take care,
Aloe Vera Dawn
kimc
>
> Brenda
Thought provoking questions with some really good answers!! I think
some changes are obviously in order as far as the relationship with
fans, both old and new. And fresh marketing ideas and tools might
inject some life into things as well.
The most interesting things I've heard Barry do recently were the BBC
radio specials-the Christmas one and the Johnny Mercer special. And he
actually sounded like he was having fun, also.The other TV interviews,
people asking the same questions and getting the same answers, not so
exciting for us. But I know the civilians need to hear it because
maybe they don't keep up with him and don't know what's coming out
until the media blitz. I don't feel that I have to know things like
the names of his dogs( and I am a huge animal freak)-but I would like
to hear him come out with something different to say now and then.
Share something with us we may not have heard before. Doesn't have to
be that personal as far as details, but it would be nice to hear
something firsthand and fresh now and then.
Definitely a great idea to put him out there in places he might reach
people who aren't that familiar with him or where they don't expect to
see him. Who'd expect to see him on True Blood or Boondocks, right?
Family Guy was a good idea and it keeps getting rerun all of the time.
Absolutely put an immediate stop to this antagonizing fans, offending
people, etc. Whatever the real truth is, the perception is that
something very ugly is going on. And that kind of thing is not going
to help sales of any kind.
There is no reason why the band and backups can't learn 10 fan
favorites and have them pull out 2 of them for each performance-if the
old timers knew that they were going to get a 'treat' from Mayflower
or old fan favorites each weekend, it's a little added incentive. Work
with the Paris to have attractive package deals, reduced ticket prices
with a room, contests, giveaways, etc.
Change is never an easy thing, but it won't hurt to do a few things
here and there to shake things up in a good way.
Kim
kimc
>
> Hi Kim!
>
> Thank you for the compliment on the video, and yes I love my Mac. :o)
>
> I just finished watching the YouTube video. That is TOO FUNNY!! I
> got a chuckle over using an iPhone for the microphone, but the blue
> screen of death at the end really had it for me. LOL!
>
> That was a great parody, though!
>
> Yeah, I helped our 8th grade teacher a few weeks ago make the year end
> video for the class graduating our school. She did most of the work,
> I just helped get the audio working and then showed her how iDVD
> works. She has a brand new iMac. You know I was salivating! LOL.
>
> Take care,
>
> Aloe Vera Dawn
I'm sure you were 'lusting'' after that iMac a bit. ;-)
Toby is funny, and also incredibly sweet, as is his girlfriend,- a bit
of a rarity in LA
Glad to see both you and Brenda back!
Kim
marvin
effectively.
I like this one from Kim:
There is no reason why the band and backups can't learn 10 fan
> favorites and have them pull out 2 of them for each performance-if the
> old timers knew that they were going to get a 'treat' from Mayflower
> or old fan favorites each weekend, it's a little added incentive. Work
> with the Paris to have attractive package deals, reduced ticket prices
> Kim
I think TPTB can promote that each show has new songs and
fulfill this promise on each show.
Also, on the road, Barry should::
* offer an additional 30 minutes of showtime and please
forget an opening act.
* when on the road, sing the national anthem of the local
baseball/football/basketball/hockey team where Barry is performing.
* go to local schools and promote the musical instruments
program of your charity and get on the local news TV station and plug
your show at the same time.
In terms of TV appearances:
* make appearances on TV situation comedies or a film as a
guest- and please show your acting skillls and play someone other than
BARRY MANILOW which you have done ad nauseum. Barry did a fair job
playing Tony in "Copacabana" and can play an interesting off the wall
character. Many aging stars did very well by playing characters and it
did wonders for their careers. Just ask Betty White, and even music
stars like Reba McIntire, Bette Midler, Harry Connick, Donny Osmond,
Wayne Newton, even Neil Diamond, who is no great actor, what a little
acting did for their careers- and in all these cases they all got a
boost in their careers.
* make another PBS Special and also make sure that some of
your old great ABC and CBS TV specials are available to PBS.
* make sure if Tony Bennett or any other singing legend
does a duet TV special that you will be one of the duet partners on
the show. Marvin
dcsharon
Also, on the road, Barry should::
> * offer an additional 30 minutes of showtime and please
> forget an opening act.
I'm going to say this isn't going to happen. Barry hasn't been playing
90 minute shows, and the opening acts introduce the audience to
(perhaps) another Stiletto client (Brian Culbertson) or Straight No
Chaser. I don't think we'll ever see another 90 minute show, just
because his hips won't handle it. He hasn't done a 90 minute (plus)
show at an arena for years.
> * when on the road, sing the national anthem of the local
> baseball/football/basketball/hockey team where Barry is performing.
I disagree. I don't want to hear Paul McCartney sing the National
Anthem (unless he foregoes his British citizenship) so I don't want to
hear Barry sing the anthem of another country. If he were to work it
in as an instrumental interlude, that's another matter.
The best thing Barry can do, is be Barry. Not the fake, plastic Barry
that's been around of late, but the charming gawky performer we fell
in love with. Maybe a Snickers commercial might work. But what the
fans want to see, in a nutshell, is Barry being himself, and not
faking it. We know he's out there somewhere, as we used to see
glimpses of him in his writing (the Barry-gram) and the British
interviews.
(DC) Sharon
Nash's Gramma
> > baseball/football/basketball/hockey team where Barry is performing.
>
> I disagree. I don't want to hear Paul McCartney sing the National
> Anthem (unless he foregoes his British citizenship) so I don't want to
> hear Barry sing the anthem of another country. If he were to work it
> in as an instrumental interlude, that's another matter.
>
>
Mexico, etc., singing the national anthem shouldn't be a problem. As
long as he stays in the United States, the national anthem of ANY
sports team will be OUR national anthem.
Sharon
marvin
I did not explain my idea well.
What I meant to say is that when Barry goes on the road, he can
promote himself by singing the national anthem at a baseball,
football, basketball or hockey game as a way of promoting that he is
in town to do an arena show. I did not mean for Barry to actually sing
the national anthem at his shows. Sorry I did not express myself well.
Marvin
Nash's Gramma
That's ok. I think that's a great idea....attend the local sports
event and sing the our national anthem, and let people know he's going
to be doing a show, possibly in that same arena.
Sharon
Scooter
I remember when he sang the anthem at the opening day Dodgers game a while
back. But I think a friend of his in Palm Springs asked him to do it. Maybe
the guy was an owner? CRS
I think he had a keyboard, which did look sorta bizarre at a baseball game.
Usually people just stand there and belt it out, like he did at the two Super
Bowls.
--
Scooter
Totosmom
> 2) How do you improve overall relations with the existing fan base?
>
How about something like a phone call from Barry? Once a month, they
can randomly pick a fan (one that hasn't done the Platinum
experience), and notify them that Barry will be calling on _____ date
at _____ time. Just a nice 5 minute phone conversation where Barry
can connect to some fans on a more personal level, to someone that
may never get the chance to have the face to face experience. Not
only would this result in better relations with existing fans (by not
looking like it's all about the money), but it would mean the world to
the fan and I bet it would also boost the membership of the fan club.
I'm sure it will never happen, but it's something nice to think about.
Bonnie
Reb
5983c0...@r5g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
I know the Singer Ciara does video chats with her fans all the time at
ustream. I was reading that someone asked her to call them in the chat and
she did it. I really admire that she does this type of thing..all from the
privacy and safety of her own home