OT. LADIES Health issues. Read this!!!
Peg!
insurance changes...files being scattered to the 4 winds...lack of
time..too many other health issues taking up my brain, etc., etc.
And, on a fluke (as I have not visited a gynecologist nearly at
all in my life except for when I was pregnant with Katy), I had a pap
smear done.
It came back one step down from the worst possible case scenario
(invasive cancer). Yet, hearing that one has "Carcinoma in situ and
severe dysplasia" is not all that comforting.
The waiting on results has been hell...the waiting from procedure to
procedure (Pap smear to colposcopy to conization) has been unnerving in
the extreme. The not knowing if this will end with the next procedure,
or whether they will call for something more is nerve-racking.
Ladies...Go in yearly for this exam. Don't let it slide. It's worth it
to hear year after year that all is ok...or even to hear that the
results are "A little suspicious". It is an imminently treatable
condition when caught early on, but if not, it can mean an incompetent
cervix, hysterectomy, and potentially, death.
Keep up on it, as cervical problems can go for years without symptoms,
and can kill you before you even know your sick.
Lynn
--
Bosun on the "Running Sore" Official unofficial
ale taster...anytime, anyplace, anyones. Personal
quote: "Don't know, don't care, gimme a Guinness.
To e-mail me, write to Peg at Pyrates dot com.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Peldyn
for 20 yrs. She died June 2 1997 of advanced cervical cancer. It didn't have to
happen.
Lynn, you have my best wishes for your recovery. I hear that chemo is very
effective when combined with radiation therapy.
Peldyn
Gaffer Applewright
We are all pulling for you
Gaffer
Lisa (ImWench157)
Peg! wrote in message <7vhhod$8cu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> For many years I have been ignoring certain aspects of my health...many
>insurance changes...files being scattered to the 4 winds...lack of
>time..too many other health issues taking up my brain, etc., etc.
>
>And, on a fluke (as I have not visited a gynecologist nearly at
>all in my life except for when I was pregnant with Katy), I had a pap
>smear done.
>
>It came back one step down from the worst possible case scenario
>(invasive cancer). Yet, hearing that one has "Carcinoma in situ and
>severe dysplasia" is not all that comforting.
>
>The waiting on results has been hell...the waiting from procedure to
>procedure (Pap smear to colposcopy to conization) has been unnerving in
>the extreme. The not knowing if this will end with the next procedure,
>or whether they will call for something more is nerve-racking.
>
>Ladies...Go in yearly for this exam. Don't let it slide. It's worth it
>to hear year after year that all is ok...or even to hear that the
>results are "A little suspicious". It is an imminently treatable
>condition when caught early on, but if not, it can mean an incompetent
>cervix, hysterectomy, and potentially, death.
>
>Keep up on it, as cervical problems can go for years without symptoms,
>and can kill you before you even know your sick.
>
>Lynn
Lynn....please let us know how you are doing, and what we can for you during
all this. I won't blow sunshine up your bilge pump, you have a lot ahead of
you...but I hope you do know you don't have to go through it alone.
Lisa
Wench #157
Assassin #003
D'Cupcake MacDobhran
Member - Guild of St. Wilde
http://www.mindspring.com/~ljsalim
Wenches Forever, Forever Wenches
Stress is when you wake up screaming
and you realize you haven't gone to sleep yet.
Peg!
own circumstances well enough in my haste to warn others to be dilligent
about their health in this area...
Me: "Carcinoma in situ, severe dysplasia".
This means that I have a very localized form of cancer. It has so little
to do with invasive cancer that it is more commonly referred to as a
"pre-cancerous" condition.
My report also came back with a potential for problems at the glandular
level. Meaning that there is a potential that the suspicious tissue
could be intratuterine as well, and not just confined to the cervix.
So, for me, it will likely not mean chemo or radiation, but could mean a
hysterectomy.
They are trying to eradicate any and all of the "pre-cancerous" tissue
to insure that it *not* become an invasive malignancy.
What I am waiting on is to hear how far this will go. Will it be that
the conization (to be done Late November) will get rid of whatever
tissue there is that is abnormal, or will this go the distance and mean
the need for a hysterectomy?
Which is another reason why I wrote. It doesn't have to be cancer to be
scary, and mean risk and potential surgery.
Go get yourselves checked out, Ladies. It's worth the time, effort, and
potential embarrassment.
Lynn
Trong
Peg! <bosu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> Go get yourselves checked out, Ladies. It's worth the time, effort,
and
> potential embarrassment.
>
> Lynn
>
> Bosun on the "Running Sore" Official unofficial
>
I'm the first to admit that i don't know everything about everything
(stop snickering!), and i certainly don't know much at all about being
a woman. I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I can't
imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm asking so
others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so that i
may understand. If answering public is in itself embarassing, e-mail is
kewl too.
--
Trong Trongersoll, Hermit from the Hills,
Ogre Extrodinaire, Bount. Bod. Guild, Supporter #3
Ren.Geek NJ:NYRF
AIM: Trongersol
ja...@my-deja.com
> I'm the first to admit that i don't know everything about everything
> (stop snickering!), and i certainly don't know much at all about being
> a woman. I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I
can't
> imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm asking so
> others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so that i
> may understand. If answering public is in itself embarassing, e-mail
is
> kewl too.
>
> --
> Trong Trongersoll, Hermit from the Hills,
> Ogre Extrodinaire, Bount. Bod. Guild, Supporter #3
> Ren.Geek NJ:NYRF
> AIM: Trongersol
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Well, here's what I find embarrasing about the whole procedure. You go
into a room, take off all of your clothing and put on a skimpy rag of a
"gown" that would get you arrested if you wore it in public. Then
someone you've never seen before in your life (if you don't go often,
or if, like me, you have a stinkin' HMO who won't let you designate a
GYN), who is (more and more as I get older) probably about ten years
younger than you, comes in, and asks you several very personal
questions. Then you get to hoist your feet over your head,
spread-eagled, into stirrups, while this stranger sits on a stool at
your crotch, pulls a light into position, and pokes and prods you with
various metallic instruments in tender areas most of us reserve for our
significant others. Hence the embarrassment.
That said, I must agree with Peg! that Pap smears and annual exams are
very important. It's not like skin cancer, where you can see the mole
developing and say, "hey, I'd better get a doctor to look at that." And
I'm speaking as someone who *loathes* pelvic exams. For me, they aren't
just uncomfortable, they *hurt*. Just this year, it was finally
explained to me that I am among the small percentage of women whose
uteruses are tipped towards the back, instead of the front. It's kind
of like being left-handed, and results in more painful exams. If I'd
known that ten years ago, I wouldn't have avoided having my exams done
for so long. They're still going to hurt, but at least I'll know why,
and won't feel like such a wimp. So my advice is, ignore the
embarrassment, get your exams done every year, and ASK QUESTIONS.
Climbing off the soapbox now.
Peg!, I'm glad to read your clarification that it's not full cancer, but
"pre-cancerous" is scary enough. Please do keep us posted on how you
are doing, and know that you have our support.
--
Susan
Wench #457
The Wicked Wench of the West
Wm. Iserman
Peg! wrote:
> After reading the replies thusfar, I think I may have not explained my
> own circumstances well enough in my haste to warn others to be dilligent
> about their health in this area...
>
> Me: "Carcinoma in situ, severe dysplasia".
>
> This means that I have a very localized form of cancer. It has so little
> to do with invasive cancer that it is more commonly referred to as a
> "pre-cancerous" condition.
>
> My report also came back with a potential for problems at the glandular
> level. Meaning that there is a potential that the suspicious tissue
> could be intratuterine as well, and not just confined to the cervix.
>
> So, for me, it will likely not mean chemo or radiation, but could mean a
> hysterectomy.
>
> They are trying to eradicate any and all of the "pre-cancerous" tissue
> to insure that it *not* become an invasive malignancy.
>
> What I am waiting on is to hear how far this will go. Will it be that
> the conization (to be done Late November) will get rid of whatever
> tissue there is that is abnormal, or will this go the distance and mean
> the need for a hysterectomy?
>
> Which is another reason why I wrote. It doesn't have to be cancer to be
> scary, and mean risk and potential surgery.
>
> Go get yourselves checked out, Ladies. It's worth the time, effort, and
> potential embarrassment.
>
> Lynn
>
> Bosun on the "Running Sore" Official unofficial
> ale taster...anytime, anyplace, anyones. Personal
> quote: "Don't know, don't care, gimme a Guinness.
> To e-mail me, write to Peg at Pyrates dot com.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Peg,
What you're facing is serious enough! I hope and pray that you will only
need the conization. If The Doctor recommends a hysterecomy, Please get a
second opinion!Preferably from a female surgeon.I now that this may sound
sexist but studies are showing that too many doctors reach for the big gun
when they hear CA(cancer). Fully examine all possible models of treatment
for this as there are many new treatments and procedures that are not as
radical. I am telling you this so that you do not have to go through the
'joy' of Hormone replcement therapy.(Mother in Law in the middle of it now).
You are in my prayers, get well.
WRI
painter of ceramics
1/4 of a Unicorn's Tale
God of Nothing
WharWulv DarWulv of Sarcastica, Hunch back hider to the cathedral on
the sarcastican square
Owner of Leather Luxuries; Manufacturers of Leather Armor and Doublets,
Importers of Fine Pewter
Lyonesse
> I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I can't
>imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm asking so
>others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so that i
>may understand.
You're right, in a perfectly logical world going to any kind of doctor is just
something we do... no big deal. But gynocologists are a rather specific type of
doctor, and going to them is not as simple as going to your regular physician
(though it should be).
But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing (especially
since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think), cold metal
tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only significant
others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of circumstances.
It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very vulnerable to lie on
our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a virtual
stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I don't know if
there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are probably
right up there.
So... because many women are scared/embarassed/uncomfortable wit the whole
idea... they don't go. And unfortuantely, more often than not, when they *do*
go their fears are confirmed and they're in pain and/or diagnosed with
something because they didn't go on a regular basis. A vicious cycle,
unfortunately.
alla aardvark,
Lyonesse
__
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Tyma's one and only Irascible Sidekick
Ticklin Ma'Groin of Clan Ma'Groin fame
Ren Geek!
Wench-Jade #752
Bard #037
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Official Member of the Benevolent Ruler Clique
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of Doom! Award
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For AFR FAQ's click on http://member.aol.com/jmcathcart/afr.html
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
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Peg!
> > Go get yourselves checked out, Ladies. It's worth the time, effort,
> and potential embarrassment.
To which, Trong replied (snipped for brevity):
> I can't imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm
> asking so others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why,
> so that i may understand.
And I answer:
Many women find trips to the gynecologist to be extremely unnerving and
are left feeling very vulnerable. Women who have instances of previous
sexual abuse are even more likely to have troubles in this area (AND
are amongst the ones with a greater potential for cervical
abnormalities).
I have heard it told to other men thusly...
Picture being at the proctologists. The Doctor your HMO has assigned you
is a gay man. While he has you on your knees and his finger in your
nether regions, he then tries to make small talk with you. This is as
close to what it is like to have a male gynecologist checking you over
while asking you what you do for a living.
Which is why my gynecologist is female.
In any case, no matter the gender or the circumstance, you are flat on
your back with your legs spread akimbo in those wonderful stirrups, and
someone is inserting cold or hot (depending) metal objects into an
orafice that most women only share with people they love deeply and
trust implicitly and you are more than likely mostly naked while all
this is occuring...what's to like?
I am not meaning to sound flippant here...just wanted to paint an
appropriate picture for you.
Cyd
> > I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I can't
> >imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm
> asking so
> >others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so
> that i
> >may understand.
And Lyonesse didst gently answer:
> You're right, in a perfectly logical world going to any kind of
> doctor is just
> something we do... no big deal. But gynocologists are a rather
> specific type of
> doctor, and going to them is not as simple as going to your
> regular physician
> (though it should be).
> But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing
> (especially
> since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think),
> cold metal
> tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only
> significant
> others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of
> circumstances.
And COLD instruments to boot! I'd like to know who the wise guy was who
invented the metal speculum... you'd think with the invention of modern
plastics they'd have come up with something a bit more on the
comfortable side... And why does every GYN office have to be hovering
somewhere around 65 degrees?
> It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very
> vulnerable to lie on
> our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a
> virtual
> stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I
> don't know if
> there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are
> probably
> right up there.
Actually, as an addendum to Lynn's original post, the gentlemen should
be getting themselves checked frequently as well... A friend of mine
recently went through the most trying circumstance of his life... He is
now a eunich due to testicular cancer... and fighting for his life
because it spread before they caught it... So now he is missing
equipment and going through all kinds of chemo and radiation because he
didn't get regular checkups... Sorry guys, don't mean to get graphic on
you (I think I just heard the universal sound of every guy on this
group covering the family jewels), but because he didn't get himself
checked out on a regular basis, he is now incapable of having children
ever, and may possibly be risking death within a few years because he
didn't bother with at least yearly appointments.
> So... because many women are scared/embarassed/uncomfortable wit
> the whole
> idea... they don't go. And unfortuantely, more often than not,
> when they *do*
> go their fears are confirmed and they're in pain and/or diagnosed
> with
> something because they didn't go on a regular basis. A vicious
> cycle,
> unfortunately.
*nod* I admit, I don't go as often as I should. It IS embarassing,
uncomfortable, and just plain scary at best. At best, you have someone
poking and prodding where you'd much rather they not. At worst, you may
have some of your worst fears come to life. Either circumstance is not
something the average woman relishes, and it is "easier" to avoid the
doctor than to face the possible truths. Some women would much rather
just not know than have to deal with something when it comes up, even
if it might wind up killing them.
Lynn, it can't be comfortable talking about this. But thanks for
bringing it up. At the very least, some of us may get the wake up call
we need. And you know we are here for you...
Lady Celena
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Sheila D. Lind
in - training looking and prodding with wise looks and comments of what
a classic case this is of........ Remind me to never go to a teaching
hospital again. LOL
P.S. This was in England, I was 19 and it hasn't stopped me from seeing
my gyn regularly.
Shelagh of Morrison
Wench Madame # 765
Bard # 99
Lyonesse wrote in message
<19991101113118...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Trong didst gently ask:
>
< snip>
Trong
rapidly coming to the conclusion that this was too personal to ask
here. My question truly was posted becaue i wanted to understand. That
said...
In article <0a0133f8...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com>,
Cyd <c.duvel...@ieee.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> And COLD instruments to boot! I'd like to know who the wise guy was
who
> invented the metal speculum... you'd think with the invention of
modern
> plastics they'd have come up with something a bit more on the
> comfortable side... And why does every GYN office have to be hovering
> somewhere around 65 degrees?
>
they do make them out of clear plastic as well as metal.
I've been thinking about the gown responses i've gotten. I'm thinking
maybe supply your own gown? a chemise made with an opague material, and
slit up the back should fill the bill, and since its a garment many
here in A.F.R are already comfortable wearing, the familiarity of the
garment might help some of the anxiety. If they give ya hard time about
wearing it. hey, your paying the outrages bills, they can bugger off.
>
> Actually, as an addendum to Lynn's original post, the gentlemen should
> be getting themselves checked frequently as well... A friend of mine
> recently went through the most trying circumstance of his life... He
is
> now a eunich due to testicular cancer... and fighting for his life
> because it spread before they caught it... So now he is missing
> equipment and going through all kinds of chemo and radiation because
he
> didn't get regular checkups... Sorry guys, don't mean to get graphic
on
> you (I think I just heard the universal sound of every guy on this
> group covering the family jewels), but because he didn't get himself
> checked out on a regular basis, he is now incapable of having children
> ever, and may possibly be risking death within a few years because he
> didn't bother with at least yearly appointments.
>
*cringing* um did he at least get fake ones put in so that he appears
normal???? They make them for animals, i have to assume that they make
them for people too.
>
> *nod* I admit, I don't go as often as I should. It IS embarassing,
> uncomfortable, and just plain scary at best. At best, you have someone
> poking and prodding where you'd much rather they not. At worst, you
may
> have some of your worst fears come to life. Either circumstance is not
> something the average woman relishes, and it is "easier" to avoid the
> doctor than to face the possible truths. Some women would much rather
> just not know than have to deal with something when it comes up, even
> if it might wind up killing them.
>
now this i can associate with. this i understand.
> Lynn, it can't be comfortable talking about this. But thanks for
> bringing it up. At the very least, some of us may get the wake up call
> we need. And you know we are here for you...
>
> Lady Celena
>
yeah, what she said! *sitting scrounched up glaring at Cyd*.
*thinking* cut them off? whats there to live for then?
--
Trong Trongersoll, Hermit from the Hills,
Ogre Extrodinaire, Bount. Bod. Guild, Supporter #3
Ren.Geek NJ:NYRF
AIM: Trongersol
Liz /cozit
Lyonesse wrote:
>
> Trong didst gently ask:
>
> > I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I can't
> >imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm asking so
> >others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so that i
> >may understand.
>
> You're right, in a perfectly logical world going to any kind of doctor is just
> something we do... no big deal. But gynocologists are a rather specific type of
> doctor, and going to them is not as simple as going to your regular physician
> (though it should be).
>
> But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing (especially
> since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think), cold metal
> tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only significant
> others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of circumstances.
>
> It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very vulnerable to lie on
> our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a virtual
> stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I don't know if
> there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are probably
> right up there.
>
> So... because many women are scared/embarassed/uncomfortable wit the whole
> idea... they don't go. And unfortuantely, more often than not, when they *do*
> go their fears are confirmed and they're in pain and/or diagnosed with
> something because they didn't go on a regular basis. A vicious cycle,
> unfortunately.
Hmmm...to put this in relative terms most men will understand... (Guess
you haven't had a 30+ yr. old physical, Trong?)... Ya know that
prostrate exam thing y'all are supposed to go through? (Caught my
husband by surprise)....now imagine that yearly from your teens, till
you die...and it takes longer and involves more instruments as well as
sample taking...though up a different route.
Oh, and that's in addition to being prodded elsewhere on the exterior of
your body....
-Elisabeth
Richard Michalski or Anne Frates
>
> And COLD instruments to boot! I'd like to know who the wise guy was who
> invented the metal speculum... you'd think with the invention of modern
> plastics they'd have come up with something a bit more on the
> comfortable side... And why does every GYN office have to be hovering
> somewhere around 65 degrees?
>
If that's happening to you, you should speak up...doctors don't always
think of these things, but they can do something about it. For instance,
mine always has the instruments warmed in warm water, and kept under a
heat lamp...and the nurse who charts you in checks that the temperature
is okay...they've even offered fuzzy footies when they thought I might
be chilled. Still not pleasant, but it sure makes you happier to know
that they're paying attention to the little comforts, and makes me feel
that they're paying attention to the bigger ones too.
Queen Maggie
Lyonesse
>think of these things, but they can do something about it. For instance,
>mine always has the instruments warmed in warm water, and kept
>under a
>heat lamp...and the nurse who charts you in checks that the temperature
>is okay...they've even offered fuzzy footies when they thought I might
>be chilled. Still not pleasant, but it sure makes you happier to know
>that they're paying attention to the little comforts, and makes me feel
>that they're paying attention to the bigger ones too.
>
::nodnodnod:: My gyno does the same... my biggest complaint is the examination
gown. It does not fit me in any way, shape or form. I end up feeling like a
whale tucked into a dinner napkin and spend most of my pre-exam time trying to
arrange the few square inches of cloth in some configuration that will maintain
my dignity. Ugh.
Dearbhaile
internal exam. It certainly is ALOT different than going to your family
doctor about a cold or a stomach ache.
My first one came at the tender age of 15. I had an ovarian cyst rupture on
my right ovary and 2 more were found on the left.
It was my father who forced my mother to take me to an ob/gyn. When you are
a virgin, who never even has been seen or touched by another man, it is very
scary and not something you look forward to. (the resultant surgery was a
cake walk compared to the office visit)
However now, at 23, I must go every 6 months to make sure I'm still okay
because of consistent "abnormal" test results. (never look forward to it,
dread it immensely, but do it for the sake of my daughter who needs a
healthy mother to care for her).
--
Dearbhaile Cormac, aka Jeannie
MDRF Fixture
Mommy to "Lyssa of the Cat O' Nine Tails"
RenGeek
Wannabe Wench
Wannabe Assassin
Wannabe RenMerc
"Wish in one hand, spit in the other, see which one gets filled first" -
Great-Grandma Tyler
Sine Spence of Clan MacDuff
Lyonesse <mand...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:19991101113118...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
PyrateLady
else would I looke?) and saw that someone had thoughtfully taped up there a
poster of a pretty impressionist print! I appreciated the thoughtfulness, but
it also cracked me up.
"...beige... I think I'll paint the ceiling beige."
Kat Fairbanks
Navigator and webmeistro, the Pyrates Royale
http://www.pyrates.com
Also known as Darcy, hammered dulcimer soloist
http://members.aol.com/DarcyNB/
Liz /cozit
Liz /cozit
PyrateLady wrote:
>
> I'll never forget one visit in particular... I looked up at the ceiling (where
> else would I looke?) and saw that someone had thoughtfully taped up there a
> poster of a pretty impressionist print!
Hmmm...same thing happened to me once...haven't noticed it since...but I
haven't been in that particular room since. Lucky me, it was the room I
was in for a "non-stress test" shortly before Eliana was born...and as I
was there for over an hour, it was much appreciated (you can only read a
not so gripping paperback for so long...)
-Elisabeth
Theresa Grant
Lyonesse wrote:
> But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing (especially
> since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think), cold metal
> tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only significant
> others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of circumstances.
>
> It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very vulnerable to lie on
> our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a virtual
> stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I don't know if
> there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are probably
> right up there.
How sad.
I took control of my health when I selected a woman doctor. The gowns aren't
paper, she's got a fabulous bedside manner, her instruments aren't cold, and she
listens to me.
For a $15 co-pay I get to see the doctor of my choice, and Blue Cross doesn't even
sneeze.
Any woman who is enduring something like the above quoted description needs to take
stock, take control, do some homework, and select a doctor that works FOR her,
instead of treating her like a slab of meat.
I get a pap done every year right around my birthday -- it's my birthday present to
myself, to make sure that I'm healthy.
--
Theresa Grant
Wench, Mommy, Realtor
Goddess of Chocolate
Andrew's Proud Mommy!
Ca Madame (#386)
"Welcome to California, Home of the Happy Wenchwalks!"
"...our wenches ROCK the earth!"
Lyonesse
>
>I took control of my health when I selected a woman doctor. The gowns aren't
>paper, she's got a fabulous bedside manner, her instruments aren't cold, and
>she
>listens to me.
>
>For a $15 co-pay I get to see the doctor of my choice, and Blue Cross doesn't
>even
>sneeze.
>
>Any woman who is enduring something like the above quoted description needs
>to take
>stock, take control, do some homework, and select a doctor that works FOR
>her,
>instead of treating her like a slab of meat.
>
>I get a pap done every year right around my birthday -- it's my birthday
>present to
>myself, to make sure that I'm healthy.
>
I have control of my health, thank you. I *like* my gynocologist. She is nice
and friendly, has a wonderful bedsire manner, and keeps her instruments warm. I
have faith that she is doing all that she can for me and my health. (There is
nothing she can do about the examination gowns, we've talked about it before.
Though the new ones are cloth, they are still made in a standard size... too
small to be comfortable for most women I know). I am one of the lucky ones who
could find a good doctor within my HMO's circle.
My point in the above description was to explain why most women shy away from
their yearly exams.
Unfortuantely, *many* women put up with unpleasant exams with unfriendly
doctors and there is truly nothing they can do about it. For most of us, HMO's
dictate who we may see and when. Many cannot keep one doctor and must instead
switch every time they need an exam.
In a perfect world, we all find doctors we like and with whom we are
comfortable. But this is not a perfect world and with the stranglehold that
HMO's are gaining, our freedom to select doctors is dwindling rapidly. True,
you can still simply pay to see a doctor of your choice... but how many of us
can afford *that*?
Add to that the fact that women's health issues are secondary concerns in many
large HMO's and most of the women in this country are slowly finding themselves
in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
I'm glad that you found a doctor you trust who is covered by Blue Cross. I only
wish that all women could be so lucky.
alias Lady Hannah Maxwell
>I took control of my health when I selected a woman doctor. The gowns aren't
>paper, she's got a fabulous bedside manner, her instruments aren't cold, and
>she
>listens to me.
>
I can chime in on this one too. My new gyno (not the one who mis-diagnosed the
breast cancer) is great. Rooms are cozy and warm, and instead of paper gowns,
big, thick robes. And she talks about EVERYTHING, no issue is small or
overlooked. I'm impressed by this doctor, unfortunatly I know she is not the
norm. But it still doesn't stop me from dreading the twice yearly experience.
gah,
Lady Hannah
Those who hear not the music, think the dancers mad
BumperCarBeatriceOfSarcasticaWheelsAndSquealsForAll
ArtificerToTheGodOfNothing,WhoCreatesTheArtsOfNothing
Life may not be the party I had envisioned but while still here I shall dance
St.Wilde
Cyd
> I'll never forget one visit in particular... I looked up at the
> ceiling (where
> else would I looke?) and saw that someone had thoughtfully taped
> up there a
> thoughtfulness, but
> it also cracked me up.
> "...beige... I think I'll paint the ceiling beige."
*snarf* Owww... Thank you Kat, for now giving me jujifruits up the back
of my nose...
Lady Celena (gotta eat that halloween candy SOMETIME... You wouldn't
believe how much winds up at work...)
Marcy
>big, thick robes.
Just chiming in with a reason for paper gowns and sheets...someone has to wash
'em if they're cloth, which means an external laundry service or having a
washer and dryer in the office. I used to work for a physician who was two
years out of residency (read: under a mountain of debt) He is a damn fine man
who really fights the good fight...and can't get on the big HMO's because he's
not part of an established clinic. (And because he was on his own, he was also
footing the bill for it *all*) Disposable is usually more cost effective.
My two most recent docs have had cloth gowns and sheets (and have been
established in that area as long as I can remember)...and they are both faboo
(and male.) I also have a serious comfort level with them...as I used to see
them nearly daily at the hospital and at social functions (and one of them at
church.)
Find a doctor of whatever gender you are comfortable with...ask the staff about
the conditions in advance...ask your friends about their docs...not getting the
answers you like? Keep searching. You deserve to have a situation that is as
optimal as possible (it ain't gonna be perfect)...that goes for men and women
alike...and go for ice cream after... ;)
The current situation of health care and related suckiness is being hashed out
in the HMO thread...I realize that a lot of people are limited to a very few
physicians, and they may not be to your liking...However, a lot of insurance
plans don't cover your well woman visit (don't get me started...it wasn't even
eligible to apply toward the *deductible* *thwap*), so I tend to go to the
doctor of my choice...since I am paying for it anyway.
Hey? How did I get a foot taller? *stepping off of soapbox*
Marcy Kincaid aka Sissy MacDobhran
The First Wench of the Apocolypse
The Mistress of Smarmy
Wench #682 MCL
Carrier of Watermelons
Leech Wrangler
Wonder Beagle Mommy
"Sometimes it's a bitch, sometimes it's a breeze"
cure the PLAGUE to email
Cyd
I don't know, haven't asked. It's a sensitive enough topic as it is...
Although I will tell you one thing... It's true what they say about how
half of it is in the brain... They may have taken them away, doesn't
mean he still doesn't get urges... Although his boyfriend said he
didn't care about it, as long as he still had his companionship... man,
that's love.
> yeah, what she said! *sitting scrounched up glaring at Cyd*.
> *thinking* cut them off? whats there to live for then?
You're asking the wrong person that question, hon... Besides, tell that
to a woman who's just had a radical mastectomy due to breast cancer...
Methinks there's a hell of a lot more to live for than just that, hon...
Lady Celena
Theresa Grant
Lyonesse wrote:
> I'm glad that you found a doctor you trust who is covered by Blue Cross. I only
> wish that all women could be so lucky.
It could simply be my area, but every doctor whom I would wish to see is covered by
Blue Cross. In fact, most of them accept almost every plan available. I must be in
a blessed insurance region.
zski
. Still not pleasant, but it sure makes you
happier to know
> that they're paying attention to the little comforts, and makes me feel
> that they're paying attention to the bigger ones too.
My college gyne clinic even had posters on the
ceiling for you to read while you were "up on
blocks", as it were. I particularly laughed when
I saw "300 reasons why a cucumber is better than a
man" stuck to teh ceiling tiles! Indignity goes
down a lot better with some humor.
--
Wendy Z
Wench Wear Costumes
Chicago, IL
Renaissance Fashion Victim
Wench #525
"Though she be but little, she is fierce"
www.pages.ripco.net/~zski
zski
Just this year, it was finally
> explained to me that I am among the small percentage of women whose
> uteruses are tipped towards the back, instead of the front. It's kind
> of like being left-handed, and results in more painful exams.
Ow - my sympathies. Mine's that way too. (yeah,
I know - WAY too much info) Still, at least you
now know why.
Cyd
> Just this year, it was finally
> > explained to me that I am among the small percentage of women
> whose
> > uteruses are tipped towards the back, instead of the front.
> It's kind
> > of like being left-handed, and results in more painful exams.
Wendy followed with:
> Ow - my sympathies. Mine's that way too. (yeah,
> I know - WAY too much info) Still, at least you
> now know why.
> --
Add me to the list of strange ones... And now to the list of TMIs...
Lady Celena (You have my sympathies... And my empathy...)
MARISETT
fortunate enough to have never experienced the cold metal ones. On my first
visit I almost laughed out loud at one with a little penlight attached to it!
Wishing eveyone good health!
Marisett
Layta Feradayta of Sarcastica, The oops elf.
All-knowing, all-seeing, still can't arrive anywhere on time!
Liz /cozit
Trong wrote:
> >
> I've been thinking about the gown responses i've gotten. I'm thinking
> maybe supply your own gown? a chemise made with an opague material, and
> slit up the back should fill the bill, and since its a garment many
> here in A.F.R are already comfortable wearing, the familiarity of the
> garment might help some of the anxiety. If they give ya hard time about
> wearing it. hey, your paying the outrages bills, they can bugger off.
>
Try paper...not cloth...with an extra piece to put over your lap while
waiting, for "modesty's sake"....And I can't imagine how someone even a
little heavier than I would feel with the silly things...they jusy
barely reach round...
-Elisabeth
Liz /cozit
Theresa Grant wrote:
>
> Any woman who is enduring something like the above quoted description needs to take
> stock, take control, do some homework, and select a doctor that works FOR her,
> instead of treating her like a slab of meat.
>
Umm, I actually like the midwife I see each time...see another in the
practice around town from time to time, too. Doesn't get ya by the
paper and general dislike of the exam, though.
OTOH, sure beats the guy I went to when the HMO of the time didn't give
you a choice. Old fashioned as in meet in his office first and talk
there afterwards...but also had a bunch of samples of a new allergy med.
he offered me (hey, they worked...usually...and they were out and
advertised the next year)...but what's a gyn doing getting other meds
from the drug companies?
-Elisabeth
Lyonesse
>covered by
>Blue Cross. In fact, most of them accept almost every plan available. I must
>be in
>a blessed insurance region.
Yes, you are in a blessed insurance region. Or you happen to live in a region
populated by doctor's you'd feel comfortable visiting. Most women do *not* have
this luxury... not by a long shot.
Sterling Lumpkin
got "the 30 thing" to worry about) but I've heard many a sad
story from the matronly side of my family ... and am glad to
hear that doctors are beginning to improve on how they handle the
ladies checkups.
Now if only more would get a clue ... and if only your GYN would
talk with my doc ... As long as he doesn't put a cucumber poster
up! --Grin--
Sterling
zski <zs...@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:381E5164...@ripco.com...
SnowCat
> Yes, you are in a blessed insurance region. Or you happen to live in a region
> populated by doctor's you'd feel comfortable visiting. Most women do *not* have
> this luxury... not by a long shot.
>
> alla aardvark,
> Lyonesse
Health insurance? What's that?
I haven't had any since 1989.
I've worked on average 45 hours a week at whatever job I was employed at for the
past 10 years, but since I was temping or working jobs that only supervisors were
offered insurance .... no insurance.
Be happy that you at least have an option available to you.
With my current work chaos, I'm not going to have insurance for a while, unless I
get married.
--
SnowCat
Wench #48 Madame Cum Laude
"You are like a pair of Siamese cats rolled into one body." Silent Rage to me.
D'Cat McFreak, Ingrid MacDobhran
AIM = SnowCat48 ICQ# 21629465
High Priestess to the AFR Goddess of Love, Hopefilled Guardian of
Compassion and Possessor of Honorable Rescues
Pendent Initiate to the Guild of St. Wilde
IDIC
Anvil
Cyd wrote:
> > Trong didst gently ask:
> > > I curious, what is potentially embarassing about this? I can't
> > >imagine what could be embarassing, but thats just me, so i'm
> > asking so
> > >others can explain to me what would be embarassing and why, so
> > that i
> > >may understand.
>
> And Lyonesse didst gently answer:
> > You're right, in a perfectly logical world going to any kind of
> > doctor is just
> > something we do... no big deal. But gynocologists are a rather
> > specific type of
> > doctor, and going to them is not as simple as going to your
> > regular physician
> > (though it should be).
> > But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing
> > (especially
> > since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think),
> > cold metal
> > tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only
> > significant
> > others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of
> > circumstances.
>
> And COLD instruments to boot! I'd like to know who the wise guy was who
> invented the metal speculum... you'd think with the invention of modern
> plastics they'd have come up with something a bit more on the
> comfortable side... And why does every GYN office have to be hovering
> somewhere around 65 degrees?
>
> > It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very
> > vulnerable to lie on
> > our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a
> > virtual
> > stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I
> > don't know if
> > there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are
> > probably
> > right up there.
>
> Actually, as an addendum to Lynn's original post, the gentlemen should
> be getting themselves checked frequently as well... A friend of mine
> recently went through the most trying circumstance of his life... He is
> now a eunich due to testicular cancer... and fighting for his life
> because it spread before they caught it... So now he is missing
> equipment and going through all kinds of chemo and radiation because he
> didn't get regular checkups... Sorry guys, don't mean to get graphic on
> you (I think I just heard the universal sound of every guy on this
> group covering the family jewels), but because he didn't get himself
> checked out on a regular basis, he is now incapable of having children
> ever, and may possibly be risking death within a few years because he
> didn't bother with at least yearly appointments.
After the age of 25 Men should start getting Prostate exams once every 5 years,
and once every year after the age of 35. When this exam is given, most of the
other tests are done as well. I had my first of such exams not to long ago, and
I think that it is probably the closest men get to what you ladies go through.
It sucks, but do it! because it doesn't suck as much as dieing. Anvil
Rogue 353
Lyonesse
>Health insurance? What's that?
>
>I haven't had any since 1989.
>I've worked on average 45 hours a week at whatever job I was employed at for
>the
>past 10 years, but since I was temping or working jobs that only supervisors
>were
>offered insurance .... no insurance.
>Be happy that you at least have an option available to you.
>With my current work chaos, I'm not going to have insurance for a while,
>unless I
>get married.
::nodnodnod:: Absolutely... another concern we've all overlooked. While there
are plenty of us trapped in HMO's with limited medical choices, at least we
have the choices.
The only reason I have health insurance is my status as a full-time student. I
lose my insurance in May and will then be uncovered for at least a year while I
work my way into my chosen profession (eeek! the real world!). The prospect of
having no health coverage is, frankly, rather frightening.
zski
>
> Health insurance? What's that?
>
> I haven't had any since 1989.
>
> I've worked on average 45 hours a week at whatever job I was employed at for the
> past 10 years, but since I was temping or working jobs that only supervisors were
> offered insurance .... no insurance.
Like I said, I was in the same boat - temped for
8 years, no insurance. Thanks to the sliding fee
scale at Planned Parenthood, i was able to get
this exam for about $50. Even if you can't afford
one every year (though I did, but barely) it
sounds like it's been long enough that you NEEEEED
to go in and get checked.
Yeah, it's not easy to think about, but as someone
already said on this thread, it sure beats dying.
Marcy
>)...but what's a gyn doing getting other meds
>from the drug companies?
Seeing as how they are the only doctor that some women see all year, I find it
very convenient. I asked my doctor for refills on my allergy meds when I saw
him.
Liz /cozit
SnowCat wrote:
>
>
> Health insurance? What's that?
>
> I haven't had any since 1989.
>
> I've worked on average 45 hours a week at whatever job I was employed at for the
> past 10 years, but since I was temping or working jobs that only supervisors were
> offered insurance .... no insurance.
>
> Be happy that you at least have an option available to you.
>
> With my current work chaos, I'm not going to have insurance for a while, unless I
> get married.
You might want to look around. I know that it's not available
everywhere, and it's a *little* more expensive (but not that much, and
not always), but there are a number of insurance companies out there
that do individual policies now.
There are also companies that have policies for the self-employed. And
there's always the opportunity to join some career related organization
and get insurance through them.
It's harder to find...especially if you have a "pre-existing condition",
but it's out there...in many areas, at least.
(I have friends who fit into several of the above categories, recieve
mail related to them and have looked into it a bit as DH is thinking
about consulting/working for himself soon...but we actually have
insurance through his work still.)
-Elisabeth
SnowCat
> SnowCat wrote:
> > With my current work chaos, I'm not going to have insurance for a while, unless I
> > get married.
>
> You might want to look around. I know that it's not available
> everywhere, and it's a *little* more expensive (but not that much, and
> not always), but there are a number of insurance companies out there
> that do individual policies now.
> -Elisabeth
At a $150 to $200 a month .... it impossible ... I'm better off paying out of pocket for
the few visits I make ... The sliding scale at Planned Parenthood is a godsend (A
vitamin a day keeps the obstetrician away), and my chiropractor has a special discount
plan for cash/no insurance patients. so when I broke my fanny a couple months ago, I
went to him for the x-rays instead of the hospital ...
Purchasing
> there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are probably
myself, to make sure that I'm healthy.
Actually, I have a similar little treat for myself every year around my B-Day. I like
to dress up in the aformentioned little paper gowns, and give MYSELF prostate exams. I
like to spoil myself, as you can see.
But in all seriousness, no. Men are very fortunate. We no longer have to endure such
violations as prostate exams. Science spares us the rod, and gives us a urine test. I
personally kinda miss the whole thing. In fact, I had a dream the other night, in which
my doctor and I were in a meadow with daisies all around. We were running in what
seemed like slow motion into each others open arms...<sigh>.
Don Patrick Pagewell
-= "Don" =-
Theresa Grant wrote:
> Lyonesse wrote:
>
> > But, gyno exams involve miserable paper dresses that cover nothing (especially
> > since the dresses are designed for women sizes 4 - 6 I think), cold metal
> > tables, and fingers and instruments in places that normally only significant
> > others would be permitted to see in the most intimate of circumstances.
> >
> > It does not embarass us so much as make us feel very, very vulnerable to lie on
> > our backs, legs in the air, while we are poked and prodded by a virtual
> > stranger. I've never been a man or had a physical as a man, so I don't know if
> > there's a comparable procedure... but prostate or hernia exams are probably
> > right up there.
>
> How sad.
>
> I took control of my health when I selected a woman doctor. The gowns aren't
> paper, she's got a fabulous bedside manner, her instruments aren't cold, and she
> listens to me.
>
> For a $15 co-pay I get to see the doctor of my choice, and Blue Cross doesn't even
> sneeze.
>
> Any woman who is enduring something like the above quoted description needs to take
> stock, take control, do some homework, and select a doctor that works FOR her,
> instead of treating her like a slab of meat.
>
> I get a pap done every year right around my birthday -- it's my birthday present to
> myself, to make sure that I'm healthy.
>
Peldyn
likely to be only localized. I have a best friend who went through a similiar
condition and she is doing great now! She has to get frequent cell tests and
blood tests since an ovary was also involved, but she is in complete remission.
Take care Lynn, we are all rooting for you!
Peldyn
Lady Shay
>
> Health insurance? What's that?
>
> I haven't had any since 1989.
I wasn't as bad off. I went without insurance for most of a year, after I
left college and before I got hired on to my current job. Considering the
fact that I'm hypoglycemic, get horrible migraines, and will have to get
knee surgery soon (and none of this was in records, so it was not a
"previous condition", so my insurance couldn't get out of covering me...
Plus I just had my wisdom teeth removed. I love insurance. Though I have
found out that health departments will do physicals for either a very
minimal charge or for free... I've had very good luck with receiving basic
health care through the health departments in Michigan.
I have PHP now, and I was lucky that I knew of a very good doctor who was
in the program. She's my sister's doctor, and because I was family I was
able to get into her practice even though she hasn't taken "new" patients
in over 6 months.
Most states over health insurance programs for children (CHIP - Childrens
Health Insurance Programs). The CHIP program in Michigan is MIChild, and
the company I work for is currently running the program for the State.
Health insurance is very important to have, and if you know of anyone who
has children currently not covered by insurance, urge them to contact
their local CHIP program. Adults not covered by insurance can contact
their local health department or FIA for information on programs they
might qualify for.
Lady Shay McLaughlin, Bard #45
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Official RenGeek of alt.fairs.renaissance
http://www.geocities.com/shaiana
97.3% FaireFolk corrupt - In Need of Professional Help
Cinderella of Sarcastica, Keeper of the StepWitch
International Wenches Guild - Wench #519
First Adopted Daughter of God
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Wench 3:16
"For God so loved the wenches, He gave his only begotten Son..."
-Earnbrand Aelbwine
Rocket (Veronica)
>
> I'm beginning to think i should have kept this question to myself. I'm
> rapidly coming to the conclusion that this was too personal to ask
> here. My question truly was posted becaue i wanted to understand. That
> said...
I have never had to live through anything like this, so I am not
speaking from experience, but...
I think some women might feel embarrassed because they no longer feel
like a complete woman. They feel that if they don't have a uterus, or
ovaries, and cannot reproduce, then they are not truly women. I do not
agree with this idea, but I have seen patients who do.
>
> *cringing* um did he at least get fake ones put in so that he appears
> normal???? They make them for animals, i have to assume that they make
> them for people too.
>
They do make fake testicles. At one time they were made of metal, but I
think those were too heavy, so they started making them out of plastic.
They look pretty good when they're in too. Just a little bit of humor
here folks. Anyone want to guess what color the plastic was??? Blue.
> >
> *thinking* cut them off? whats there to live for then?
Actually, from what I understand, a man is still *very* capable of
having sex after having his testicles removed, he just cannot get anyone
pregnant. Some people might think of that as the bright side.
> --
> Trong Trongersoll, Hermit from the Hills,
> Ogre Extrodinaire, Bount. Bod. Guild, Supporter #3
> Ren.Geek NJ:NYRF
> AIM: Trongersol
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Rocket
--
So Many men, So many reasons not to sleep with any of them
Yeah, I know I can't spell
PMS = Prepare to meet Satin. Ask my boyfriend.
DarlaMed
in a city that has a medical school or a nursing school, they can do certain exams for
free. They also have all the phone numbers for available state programs if you have any
medical or dental conditions that need attention.
For example, my school has been running a breast screening clinic for several years as part
of an ongoing study. Also, every year students do "well woman" exams on paid volunteers.
And then usually once or twice a year, there are diabetes clinics, etc. etc. etc.
(and yes, sometimes (but not always) a student does the exam, but under the supervision of
an instructor.....and the instructors have to know their stuff.....at least in my school
they do!)
And, as someone who is going into the healthcare field, I don't really care for the way our
health system is set up! I think one of the most important things is to have a provider you
can trust, and to be able to go to the same provider time and time again!! When you are
sick you definately don't want to be worried about if the provider knows his/her stuff or
not (well, same for when you are healthy too!)
DarlaMed :>
Josephine Marie Thane
> Actually, I have a similar little treat for myself every year around my
> B-Day. I like
> to dress up in the aformentioned little paper gowns, and give MYSELF
> prostate exams. I
> like to spoil myself, as you can see.
> But in all seriousness, no. Men are very fortunate. We no longer have to
> endure such
> violations as prostate exams. Science spares us the rod, and gives us a
> urine test. I
> personally kinda miss the whole thing. In fact, I had a dream the other
> night, in which
>
> my doctor and I were in a meadow with daisies all around. We were running
> in what
> seemed like slow motion into each others open arms....
>
<TWEEEEEEET!!!>
<Yellow flag flutters to the ground>
15 yard penalty! Too Much Information!
--
Josephine Marie Thane
IWG #870, Jade Wench
Bard #122
Founder, Minstrosity
Chaotic Good, 43.6363636363636% insane
72% Un-Intelligent, 60% Pure
Enarra
> Don Patrick Pagewell (for some reason) shared:
>
> > Actually, I have a similar little treat for myself every year around my
> > B-Day. I like
> > to dress up in the aformentioned little paper gowns, and give MYSELF
> > prostate exams. I
> > like to spoil myself, as you can see.
> > But in all seriousness, no. Men are very fortunate. We no longer have to
> > endure such
> > violations as prostate exams. Science spares us the rod, and gives us a
> > urine test. I
> > personally kinda miss the whole thing. In fact, I had a dream the other
> > night, in which
> >
> > my doctor and I were in a meadow with daisies all around. We were running
> > in what
> > seemed like slow motion into each others open arms....
> >
>
> <TWEEEEEEET!!!>
> <Yellow flag flutters to the ground>
> 15 yard penalty! Too Much Information!
Back where I come from (in California) we used to call this kind of thing a
"Roughing the Listener" penalty... though in this case it's a "Roughing the
Reader" penalty...
Enarra
AutumnDWlf
Some of you already know that I work in the medical field, and Ladies, I am
happy to report that on occassion those speculums ( also used in the
inquisition) are used on men. And decidedly NOT where they are comfortable.
("Honest Doc, I have no idea how THAT got stuck up there...) ;)
My Gynie is a wonderful, gentle, kind, man who truly takes his pts into
consideration. He heats the instruments, the exam rooms, and warms his hands
first. He also takes the time to explain everything that he will be doing
first, again as the exam progresses, and has a great sense of humor.
(THIS is the humor part..) He told me that when he first opened his practice
he performed an exam on another MD who placed a glass eye inside of herself
before her exam. He was somewhat nervous about the situation, and wanted to be
certain he did everything by-the-book.When the time came to visualise her
cervix, something was staring right back at him!(ack!) He was so suprised he
actually checked his light, looked again, and not knowing what else to do, held
up one finger and said "ok, now follow my finger"! (LOL!) They both cracked
up, and he said he had to leave the room for 15 minutes to compose himself. :)
Josephine Marie Thane
Oh, my Goddess! That's good!
"Here's looking at you, kid."
AutumnDWlf wrote:
--
Josephine Marie Thane
IWG #870, Jade Wench
Bard #122
59.1% RenFaire Corrupt
Founder, Minstrosity
Chaotic Good, 43.6363636363636% insane,
72% Un-Intelligent, 60% Pure,
35% Weird but only 38.3% weirdness corrupt