crooked vs. bent

[Yusuf B Gursey]

in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
ignorance?

[Peter T. Daniels]

The only non-literal use of "bent" I know of is in the title of the
play *Bent*, where it is a euphemism for homosexuality in Nazi Berlin.
Whether the author took it from British usage or invented it, I do not
know.

(What is "alt.english.usage"?)

[Yusuf B Gursey]

a newsgroup that overlaps with alt.usage.english

[Don Phillipson]

"Yusuf B Gursey" <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng." (We might thus
suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
removed from standard language.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

"Crooked" in some general sense of "dishonest" goes well back into
Middle English.
"Bent" in this sense is 20th century. OED says "originally U.S.", but
they have only one 1914 citation that would support this. Like you, I
have the impression that it's now a Br./Am. thing, but maybe it was
not always so.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 9, 8:02 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

>
> > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > ignorance?
>
> These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
> from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng."  (We might thus
> suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
> removed from standard language.)

so I'll rephrase it: might it be a difference between Br. Slang and
Am. Slang?

and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?

[the Omrud]

BrE "bent" in this sense means "dishonest" (not just police). Very common.

- Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
it must be a forgery).

"bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.

--
David

[Peter Young]

On 9 Sep 2012 the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 09/09/2012 12:48, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>> ignorance?

> BrE "bent" in this sense means "dishonest" (not just police). Very common.

> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
> it must be a forgery).

And with the pun on "bent copper", likening a dishonest policeman to a
distorted small coin. Or did someone mention that?

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Pablo]

the Omrud escribió:

> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>

But the adjective "nine-bob" is still used to mean homosexual.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/44500.html

--
Pablo

[James Hogg]

And Bent is the Danish form of Benedict. There's an online Danish joke
shop called "Honest Bent":
http://www.aerligebent.dk/

--
James

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?

Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".

For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
worth 240 times what it's worth today, you could go to a public loo for a
penny (there was even a book called "The good loo guide").

And one definition of "jive" (a kind of dance that was popular back then) was
"a man standing outside a public lavatory with a bent penny."

So a bent copper is a pun on that.

And the following works whether you think of it as bent or crooked:

How do politicians resemble a bunch of bananas?

They're all yellow, they hang together, and there's not a straight one among
them.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Christopher Ingham]

I haven’t heard “bent” used in this way, either, but the_Historical
dictionary of American slang_(1994) gives it as an underworld term
(with a literary example as recent as 1978).

The senses HDAS has for “bent” are (1) “intoxicated by liquor or
drugs” (also_bent out of shape_), (2) “nearly broke or
penniless,” (3a) “_Und._ dishonest, corrupt, crooked,” (3b) “_Und._
stolen,” (4) “perverse, sexually deviant, or unconventional;
kinky,” (5) “angry or excited; [...] out of sorts, not well—usu. in
phr._bent out [of shape]_,” (6) “_Naut._ affected by the bends,” (7)
“Esp._Black E._ old or old-fashioned,” and (8) “demented, crazy.”

Christopher Ingham

[Frederick Williams]

the Omrud wrote:

>
> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
> it must be a forgery).

Was it in one of these venerable newsgroups that I was told that coins
may be forged. but not notes? :-)

--
Where are the songs of Summer?--With the sun,
Oping the dusky eyelids of the south,
Till shade and silence waken up as one,
And morning sings with a warm odorous mouth.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sep 9, 6:06 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 8:02 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > > ignorance?
>
> > These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
> > from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng."  (We might thus
> > suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
> > removed from standard language.)
>
> so I'll rephrase it: might it be a difference between Br. Slang and
> Am. Slang?

I don't remember ever hearing or seeing "bent" to mean "dishonest" in
America. I have seen it in British books.

> and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?

BNC results:

cops: 341, mostly about the police
coppers: 100, probably less than half about the police (but I didn't
check the proportions carefully)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

Do you have any evidence that anyone reads it? Has anyone reading it
crossposted to sci.lang?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 9:56 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> >and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>
> Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>
> For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
> worth 240 times what it's worth today,

How's that? Can you now buy 1 GBP for 1c US?

Back in gold standard days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 5 USD.

In my early days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 2.40 USD, i.e. 1p = 1c.

These days, 1 GBP has sunk to around 1.50 USD.

In the 1950s and 1960s, British money (according to the US standard)
was worth not quite 40% more.

Of course with floating currencies and inflation, you might need to
compare prices on common consumer goods whose supply is quite stable
-- perhaps a pound of wheat flour.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Cf. "queer as a three-dollar bill."

BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made no
sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted to
the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling* and the
wildly successful *The Office* -- are exceptions; *Prime Suspect* took
nothing but the title and the "concept" of a policewoman as the
central character -- and in most cases for no visible reason. "Steptoe
and Son" vs. "Sanford and Son"?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 10:48 am, Frederick Williams <freddywilli...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

> the Omrud wrote:
>
> > - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
> > it must be a forgery).
>
> Was it in one of these venerable newsgroups that I was told that coins
> may be forged. but not notes?  :-)

Horseshoes and such may be forged, but coins are struck or minted.

Fake coins or bills are counterfeited. Forgery refers to documents, so
there can be forged bills, but not forged coins. But the felony would
be counterfeiting, not forgery.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 10:47 am, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> On Sep 9, 7:48 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > ignorance?
>
> I haven’t heard “bent” used in this way, either, but the_Historical
> dictionary of American slang_(1994) gives it as an underworld term
> (with a literary example as recent as 1978).

In what year/era is the novel or story from 1978 set?

[Peter Young]

A former colleague lived for a while in Sweden. On the floor of the
block where he lived were two men called respectively Odd and Bent.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

My newsreader has over 25,000 posts in alt.english.usage from the last 2
years 9 months. This is a much lower rate of posting than in
alt.usage.english but alt.english.usage is alive and well.

There is some crossposting between alt.english.usage and
alt.usage.english but I can't remember noticing any between
alt.english.usage and sci.lang.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Peter Young]

Far too many here and in a.e.u crosspost to far too many groups, in my
opinion. Rant over.

I hardly have time to catch up with the two usage groups, so don't see
sci.lang. Life's too short.

[Bill McCray]

I read alt.english.usage, but not alt.usage.english. When I looked at
both, a.u.e was too active to suit me.

Bill in Kentucky

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Except when it is "cop". Some British newspapers use "cops" rather than
"police" particularly in headlines. An instance I looked at a few
minutes ago:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/big_brother/4527607/Celebrity-Big-Brothers-Rhian-Sugden-calls-in-cops-over-Jasmine-Lennard-Twitter-threats.html

CBB's Rhian calls in cops over Jasmine Twitter 'threats'

CELEBRITY Big Brother babe Rhian Sugden has contacted police after
receiving "threatening" tweets from former housemate Jasmine
Lennard.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:42:55 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

For completeness - "bent" is a type of grass:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bent--2

a stiff grass which is used for lawns and is a component of pasture
and hay grasses.

Agrostis and other genera, family Gramineae: several species...

Being stiff, bent doesn't bend much.

[Christopher Ingham]

On Sep 9, 1:09 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 10:47 am, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 9, 7:48 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > > ignorance?
>
> > I haven’t heard “bent” used in this way, either, but the_Historical
> > dictionary of American slang_(1994) gives it as an underworld term
> > (with a literary example as recent as 1978).
>
> In what year/era is the novel or story from 1978 set?
>

Whitley Strieber’s_The Wolfen_is set in contemporary NYC.

“Maybe the two dead cops were bent...maybe that’s why they were
dead.” [42]

“We’ve got a bent cop’s wife right here.” [45]

I don’t know why Lighter cites Tristan Jones’_Ice!_(1977), as the
author is British, and “He had probably taken his share of the’bent’
booze” [57] refers to the proprietor of a pub in Whitstable.

The antepenultimate citation is from Partridge’s_Dictionary of the
underworld: British and American_, 2nd ed. (1948), p.793: “”A ‘bent
screw’ ...a crooked warden who prepared to traffic with a prisoner.”

Christopher Ingham

[John Varela]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 12:08:57 UTC, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
> it must be a forgery).
>
> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.

In AmE that would be a three-dollar bill.

--
John Varela

Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and
murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure
wind. -- George Orwell

[Trond Engen]

Peter Young:

> On 9 Sep 2012 James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the Omrud wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/09/2012 12:48, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>
>>>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in
>>>> the US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never
>>>> "bent"). is there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng.
>>>> or is it just my ignorance?
>>>
>>> BrE "bent" in this sense means "dishonest" (not just police). Very
>>> common.
>>>
>>> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling
>>> notes, so it must be a forgery).
>>>
>>> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>>
>> And Bent is the Danish form of Benedict. There's an online Danish
>> joke shop called "Honest Bent":
>> http://www.aerligebent.dk/
>
> A former colleague lived for a while in Sweden. On the floor of the
> block where he lived were two men called respectively Odd and Bent.

There are anecdotes about maths teachers having twins named Odd and Even
-- both are common male names in Norway -- but quick googling can't
confirm it.

--
Trond Engen

[John Varela]

[Sci.lang omitted]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 17:28:02 UTC, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

> I can't remember noticing any [crossposting] between
> alt.english.usage and sci.lang.

Now that PTD knows about the existence of aeu there doubtless soon
will be.

[Trond Engen]

Peter T. Daniels:

> BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made no
> sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted to
> the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling*

Now, that's a pity. The original's pure genious.

--
Trond Engen

[Skitt]

Genius.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt

[Trond Engen]

Skitt:

> Trond Engen wrote:
>
>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made
>>> no sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted
>>> to the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling*
>>
>> Now, that's a pity. The original's pure genious.
>
> Genius.

Thanks. I thought something was odd, but couldn't be bothered to look it up.

(And it's a shame you didn't obey your own law.)

--
Trond Engen

[James Hogg]

Peter Young wrote:
> On 9 Sep 2012 James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the Omrud wrote:
>>> On 09/09/2012 12:48, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>>>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>>>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>>>> ignorance?
>>> BrE "bent" in this sense means "dishonest" (not just police). Very common.
>>>
>>> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, so
>>> it must be a forgery).
>>>
>>> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>
>> And Bent is the Danish form of Benedict. There's an online Danish joke
>> shop called "Honest Bent":
>> http://www.aerligebent.dk/
>
> A former colleague lived for a while in Sweden. On the floor of the
> block where he lived were two men called respectively Odd and Bent.

We have a postman called Odd. So when my wife says that the post has
just come, I say: "That's Odd."

--
James

[Skitt]

I allowed myself an exemption.

[tony cooper]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:48:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Many of us who read alt.usage.english also subscribe to
alt.english.usage. There's a small number of posts daily, compared to
aue, but there are some interesting posts and interesting posters
there. I check it daily.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Peter Young]

On 9 Sep 2012 "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

Not even this one? It's triple-posted here!

[Ian Jackson]

In message
<1b7e337d-9823-4b57...@p22g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> writes

>


>
>In my early days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 2.40 USD, i.e. 1p = 1c.

IIRC*, when the UK went decimal (15 Feb, 1971), the UK pound was indeed
worth 2.4 dollars, a 1p = 1c. Spooky!
*But don't quote me.

>
>
--
Ian

[R H Draney]

On Sep 9, 9:58 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made no
> sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted to
> the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling* and the
> wildly successful *The Office* -- are exceptions; *Prime Suspect* took
> nothing but the title and the "concept" of a policewoman as the
> central character -- and in most cases for no visible reason. "Steptoe
> and Son" vs. "Sanford and Son"?

Last year at about this time, we got a transplanted version of the UK
show "Free Agents"...the original lasted six episodes...the US series,
with the same title, was cancelled after four....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 4:10 pm, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <1b7e337d-9823-4b57-a6f8-dc56a1a5f...@p22g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gramma...@verizon.net> writes

>
>
>
> >In my early days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 2.40 USD, i.e. 1p = 1c.
>
> IIRC*, when the UK went decimal (15 Feb, 1971), the UK pound was indeed
> worth 2.4 dollars, a 1p = 1c. Spooky!
> *But don't quote me.

Presumably it wasn't decimalization that caused the fall of the GBP!

Though they probably should have gone back to minting the farthing --
back then, almost two and a half cents could actually buy more than
one of a variety of things.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 1:33 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey
>
>
>
>
>
> <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sep 9, 8:02 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> >> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> >> > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> >> > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> >> > ignorance?
>
> >> These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
> >> from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng."  (We might thus
> >> suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
> >> removed from standard language.)
>
> >so I'll rephrase it: might it be a difference between Br. Slang and
> >Am. Slang?
>
> >and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>
> Except when it is "cop". Some British newspapers use "cops" rather than
> "police" particularly in headlines. An instance I looked at a few

> minutes ago:http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/big_brother/4527607/Cele...

>
>     CBB's Rhian calls in cops over Jasmine Twitter 'threats'
>
>     CELEBRITY Big Brother babe Rhian Sugden has contacted police after
>     receiving "threatening" tweets from former housemate Jasmine
>     Lennard.

They saved three characters with COPS for COPPERS, but gave them back
with "IN "!

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 1:38 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:42:55 +0200, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>

I've only heard of bentgrass.

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

On Sep 10, 6:01 am, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>

OED's one actual American cite is from "A Vocabulary of Criminal
Slang, with some examples of common usages, by Louis E.Jackson,
advised by C.R.Hellyer, City Detective Department", Portland Oregon,
1914.

http://archive.org/details/vocabularyofcrim00jackrich

BENT... Crooked, larcenous. Example: "His kisser shows that he's bent."

[Peter T. Daniels]

Until the last series. When the kooky one left the cast, they didn't
replace him with some totally different off-the-wall character, but
brought in someone almost identical.

Something similar happened on the great series *Night Court*. They had
three different "matrons" -- the first two (Selma Diamond and Florence
Halop) died between seasons -- and each was very much her own
character.

Likewise on *Monk*, his therapist for the first five or so seasons
died over the summer, and his new therapist was Hector Elizondo for
three seasons. (Hector now plays a Basque(!)-American on the Tim Allen
series, and in one episode reference was made to his "accent" --
although he doesn't have one.)

[Jack Campin]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>>>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>>>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>>>> ignorance?

>>> The only non-literal use of "bent" I know of is in the title of the
>>> play *Bent*, where it is a euphemism for homosexuality in Nazi Berlin.

"Bent copper" is a fixed idiom. You don't often (if ever) hear of
other people being "bent" in the sense of "crooked", not even judges.
Even "bent police" would be unusual.

"Bent" for "homosexual" is rather old-fashioned but still common.

>>> (What is "alt.english.usage"?)
>> a newsgroup that overlaps with alt.usage.english
> Do you have any evidence that anyone reads it?

a.e.u is where I'm reading this discussion.

> Has anyone reading it crossposted to sci.lang?

No idea. Hopefully not. I stopped reading sci.lang long ago because
so much of it was devoted to your interminable ranting megalomania.

Followups set.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Peter T. Daniels]

If it was a sitcom and it was broadcast not cable, then I would have
checked it out, unless it was filling in the half hour at the end of
American Idol -- what was the premise? who was in it? or was it on
cable?

[Tak To]

On 9/9/2012 12:54 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sep 9, 9:56 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>>

>> Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>>
>> For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
>> worth 240 times what it's worth today,
>
> How's that? Can you now buy 1 GBP for 1c US?
>
> Back in gold standard days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 5 USD.

Which period of gold standard? The last one ended in
1971 and should have overlapped your "early days".

> In my early days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 2.40 USD, i.e. 1p = 1c.

or 1d = 1c; 1d = 1�.

> These days, 1 GBP has sunk to around 1.50 USD.
>
> In the 1950s and 1960s, British money (according to the US standard)
> was worth not quite 40% more.
>
> Of course with floating currencies and inflation, you might need to
> compare prices on common consumer goods whose supply is quite stable
> -- perhaps a pound of wheat flour.

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 2:01 pm, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>

wrote:
> On Sep 9, 1:09 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Sep 9, 10:47 am, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sep 9, 7:48 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > > > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > > > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > > > ignorance?
>
> > > I haven’t heard “bent” used in this way, either, but the_Historical
> > > dictionary of American slang_(1994) gives it as an underworld term
> > > (with a literary example as recent as 1978).
>
> > In what year/era is the novel or story from 1978 set?
>
> Whitley Strieber’s_The Wolfen_is set in contemporary NYC.
>
> “Maybe the two dead cops were bent...maybe that’s why they were
> dead.” [42]
>
> “We’ve got a bent cop’s wife right here.” [45]

If I came across that in a novel, I wouldn't know what they meant. Is
it by any chance a novelization of the brilliant movie *Wolfen*, with
Albert Finney as a NYPD detective-consultant tracking down werewolves?
(Or was the movie based on a novel?? So the British central character,
and his dialect, wasn't merely a casting choice?)

(It was one of the first uses ever of a steadicam, for the wolf point-
of-view; Harry Bertoia "wind sculptures" were used throughout -- giant
ones in park fountains, little ones on desks, etc. -- it was one of
the first movies I got on Beta tape and it was the one that proved to
me that "full frame" presentation of a movie is a crime against
nature: all the Bertoia sculptures were chopped off the sides!

(Ditto Steve Martin's *Pennies from Heaven*: from time to time the
screen picture freezes into an iconic Edward Hopper or Reginald Marsh
painting, and those effects were completely lost in the full-screen
tape version.)

> I don’t know why Lighter cites Tristan Jones’_Ice!_(1977), as the
> author is British, and “He had probably taken his share of the’bent’
> booze” [57] refers to the proprietor of a pub in Whitstable.
>
> The antepenultimate citation is from Partridge’s_Dictionary of the
> underworld: British and American_, 2nd ed. (1948), p.793: “”A ‘bent
> screw’ ...a crooked warden who prepared to traffic with a prisoner.”
>

[Jack Campin]

> For completeness - "bent" is a type of grass:

> Being stiff, bent doesn't bend much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61htsqJnr1I
http://mysongbook.de/msb/songs/r/riddlesw.html

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 5:51 pm, Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.eduxx> wrote:
> On 9/9/2012 12:54 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Sep 9, 9:56 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>
> >> Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>
> >> For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
> >> worth 240 times what it's worth today,
>
> > How's that? Can you now buy 1 GBP for 1c US?
>
> > Back in gold standard days, 1 GBP was nominally equal to 5 USD.
>
> Which period of gold standard?  The last one ended in
> 1971 and should have overlapped your "early days".

The US went off the gold standard in 1933.

[GordonD]

"Trond Engen" <tron...@engen.priv.no> wrote in message
news:k2ilsc$124$2...@dont-email.me...

Let me hazard a guess - they cut out the sex jokes for the US version?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."

[tony cooper]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:37:49 +0100, "GordonD" <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>"Trond Engen" <tron...@engen.priv.no> wrote in message
>news:k2ilsc$124$2...@dont-email.me...
>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made no
>>> sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted to
>>> the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling*
>>
>> Now, that's a pity. The original's pure genious.
>
>
>Let me hazard a guess - they cut out the sex jokes for the US version?

No, they cut out the humor that had been humour.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:54:04 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sep 9, 9:56�am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>>
>> Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>>
>> For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
>> worth 240 times what it's worth today,
>
>How's that? Can you now buy 1 GBP for 1c US?

A piss that cost you a penny back then will cost you a pound today.

>Of course with floating currencies and inflation, you might need to
>compare prices on common consumer goods whose supply is quite stable
>-- perhaps a pound of wheat flour.

Or in this case, a piss.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>The US went off the gold standard in 1933.

And then went back on it.

Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:31:28 +0200, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>the Omrud escribi�:

>
>> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>>
>

>But the adjective "nine-bob" is still used to mean homosexual.

The full phrase was "as queer as a nine-bob note" was often used for anything
unusual, as were other variants, such as "as queer as a clockwork orange"
(which found its way into the title of a book).

In 1968 a friend of mine, who had been to a theological college in England,
was looking for a bishop to ordain and employ him. The following conversation
ensued:

Bishop: are you married?
Student: No.
Bishop: Are you planning to get married?
Student: No.
Bishop: Why is that?
Student: I'm as queer as a nine bob note.
Bishop: Are you tempted to, er, give expression to these urges?
Student: Frequently.
Bishop: And what do you do in that case?
Student: I masturbate and read a funny book.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 9, 5:46 pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> >>>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> >>>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> >>>> ignorance?
> >>> The only non-literal use of "bent" I know of is in the title of the
> >>> play *Bent*, where it is a euphemism for homosexuality in Nazi Berlin.
>
> "Bent copper" is a fixed idiom.  You don't often (if ever) hear of
> other people being "bent" in the sense of "crooked", not even judges.
> Even "bent police" would be unusual.
>

the sentence in the post:

<<

In the Brian de Palma film The Untouchables are working with the
Chicago police, whereas they were formed precisely
because the police were bent.

>>

> "Bent" for "homosexual" is rather old-fashioned but still common.
>
> >>> (What is "alt.english.usage"?)
> >> a newsgroup that overlaps with alt.usage.english
> > Do you have any evidence that anyone reads it?
>
> a.e.u is where I'm reading this discussion.
>
> > Has anyone reading it crossposted to sci.lang?
>
> No idea.  Hopefully not.  I stopped reading sci.lang long ago because
> so much of it was devoted to your interminable ranting megalomania.
>
> Followups set.

I read sci.lang

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 9, 10:55 am, Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 6:06 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 8:02 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>

> > > "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

>
> > > > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
> > > > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
> > > > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
> > > > ignorance?
>

> > > These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
> > > from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng."  (We might thus
> > > suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
> > > removed from standard language.)
>
> > so I'll rephrase it: might it be a difference between Br. Slang and
> > Am. Slang?
>

> I don't remember ever hearing or seeing "bent" to mean "dishonest" in
> America.  I have seen it in British books.

>
> > and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>

> BNC results:

what's BNC?

>
> cops: 341, mostly about the police
> coppers: 100, probably less than half about the police (but I didn't
> check the proportions carefully)
>

in the reruns of the series "Law and Order, UK" they always use
"copper" instead of "cop" and there is a series in BBC America called
"Copper" about an Irish policeman in Civil War Era New York.


> --
> Jerry Friedman

[R H Draney]

Peter T. Daniels filted:
>
>On Sep 9, 1:38=A0pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>

>wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:42:55 +0200, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >the Omrud wrote:
>>

>> >> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling notes, s=

>o
>> >> it must be a forgery).
>>
>> >> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>>
>> >And Bent is the Danish form of Benedict. There's an online Danish joke
>> >shop called "Honest Bent":
>> >http://www.aerligebent.dk/
>>

>> For completeness - "bent" is a type of grass:http://oxforddictionaries.co=
>m/definition/english/bent--2
>>
>> =A0 =A0 a stiff grass which is used for lawns and is a component of pastu=
>re
>> =A0 =A0 and hay grasses.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Agrostis and other genera, family Gramineae: several spec=

>ies...
>>
>> Being stiff, bent doesn't bend much.
>
>I've only heard of bentgrass.

And I've only heard of Bent Fabric:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFf0ClVLao

....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[R H Draney]

Peter T. Daniels filted:
>
>On Sep 9, 4:50=A0pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:

It ran on NBC on Wednesday nights in the half hour following Christina
Applegate's new show "Up All Night"...starred Hank Azaria (half the population
of Springfield on "The Simpsons") and Kathryn Hahn (star of "Crossing Jordan")
employees at a public relations firm who develop an unsatisfying romantic
relationship...Anthony Head carried over from the Brit version as the same
character...perhaps you were watching "Survivor: South Pacific" or "The X
Factor" on another channel....r

[Christopher Ingham]

The movie was based on the novel.

I’ve never seen the movie, but your assessment of it has piqued my
interest. Maybe the cinematography has been better transmitted in the
DVD version.

Christopher Ingham

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 17:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 9, 10:55�am, Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 9, 6:06�am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 9, 8:02�am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > > "Yusuf B Gursey" <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eef227c3-dbf8-45da...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > > > in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>> > > > US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>> > > > there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>> > > > ignorance?
>>
>> > > These usages are metaphorical or slang, thus one level removed
>> > > from "differences between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng." �(We might thus
>> > > suppose that metaphor or slang in an Internet post is two levels
>> > > removed from standard language.)
>>
>> > so I'll rephrase it: might it be a difference between Br. Slang and
>> > Am. Slang?
>>
>> I don't remember ever hearing or seeing "bent" to mean "dishonest" in
>> America. �I have seen it in British books.
>>
>> > and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>>
>> BNC results:
>
>what's BNC

Bayonet Neill�Concelman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_connector

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 8:25 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>

> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>
> And then went back on it.
>
> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.

Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.

(Basically, William Jennings Bryan's position won, though he didn't.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 6:37 pm, "GordonD" <g.da...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Trond Engen" <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote in message

>
> news:k2ilsc$124$2...@dont-email.me...
>
> > Peter T. Daniels:
>
> >> BTW when *Queer as Folk* was remade in a US version, the title made no
> >> sense whatsoever. Virtually every British series that was adapted to
> >> the US market got a new title -- the disastrous *Coupling*
>
> > Now, that's a pity. The original's pure genious.
>
> Let me hazard a guess - they cut out the sex jokes for the US version?

The problem, for the handful of episodes that were made, was that they
used the original scripts verbatim.

Even in the early episodes of Queer as Folk and The Office, which told
essentially the same story as the first series of each in the
original, the dialogue was not the same.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Ah. Were there as many as four episodes? I thought it was unsuccessful
because the central characters were middle-aged, not particularly
attractive, and realistically unpleasant -- it had tremendous promise.
It was worth sitting through Up Alll Night to get to.

The problems with Up All Night were Christina Applegate (I never cared
for Married with Children, and I saw her on Broadway in Sweet Charity;
couldn't sing, couldn't dance, couldn't act, could do physical comedy)
and Maya Rudolph (whom I never liked even on SNL); and who needs Will
Arnett _not_ being snarky?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 9, 9:52 pm, Christopher Ingham <christophering...@comcast.net>

Indeed it is.

I haven't seen it around in ages, but maybe you can special-order it.

I also really liked *American Werewolf in London*, but that's about it
for werewolf movies. (Not even the Michael J. Fox one.) (I tried the
first 10 minutes of one of the Twilight movies -- either the first or
the second -- on the plane back from Germany. Not sure how I lasted
that long.)

[tony cooper]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sep 9, 8:25�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>
>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>>
>> And then went back on it.
>>
>> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.
>
>Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.

There were exceptions, including an exception for gold coins with
numismatic value.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sep 9, 12:04 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
> Peter Young:

>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9 Sep 2012  James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> the Omrud wrote:
>

> >>> On 09/09/2012 12:48, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> >>>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in
> >>>> the US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never
> >>>> "bent"). is there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng.
> >>>> or is it just my ignorance?
>

> >>> BrE "bent" in this sense means "dishonest" (not just police). Very
> >>> common.
>

> >>> - Bent as a nine-bob note (there never were any nine-shilling

> >>> notes,  so it must be a forgery).

>
> >>> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
>
> >> And Bent is the Danish form of Benedict. There's an online Danish
> >> joke shop called "Honest Bent":
> >>http://www.aerligebent.dk/
>

> > A former colleague lived for a while in Sweden. On the floor of the
> > block where he lived were two men called respectivelyOddand Bent.
>
> There are anecdotes about maths teachers havingtwinsnamedOddandEven
> -- both are common male names in Norway -- but quick googling can't
> confirm it.

The chessgames.com page about the chess player Odd Lie has very
strange comments.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=33393

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sep 9, 6:48 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 10:55 am, Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 9, 6:06 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:>

...

> > > and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>
> > BNC results:
>
> what's BNC?

The British National Corpus, a good place to look for answers to such
questions.

http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/

> > cops: 341, mostly about the police
> > coppers: 100, probably less than half about the police (but I didn't
> > check the proportions carefully)
>
> in the reruns of the series "Law and Order, UK" they always use
> "copper" instead of "cop" and there is a series in BBC America called
> "Copper" about an Irish policeman in Civil War Era New York.

I trust the cops about corpses and the corpus about "cops".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robert Bannister]

On 9/09/12 7:51 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Sep 9, 7:48 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>> ignorance?
>

> The only non-literal use of "bent" I know of is in the title of the
> play *Bent*, where it is a euphemism for homosexuality in Nazi Berlin.

> Whether the author took it from British usage or invented it, I do not
> know.

"bent" has been an alternative in BrE for "dishonest" since I was at
school, which is a very long time ago. I vaguely remember it being used
for homosexuality too, but it wasn't used a lot.


--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 9/09/12 10:00 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>

> Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>
> For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was

> worth 240 times what it's worth today, you could go to a public loo for a
> penny (there was even a book called "The good loo guide").
>
> And one definition of "jive" (a kind of dance that was popular back then) was
> "a man standing outside a public lavatory with a bent penny."
>
> So a bent copper is a pun on that.

There may be a play on words, but I doubt that is the origin.
"Crooked" leads to "bent" (dishonest) and "twisted" (eccentric in an
unsavoury way) quite naturally.


--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

Whoever he may be.

[Snidely]

Steve Hayes explained on 9/9/2012 :

> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>

>> On Sep 9, 8:25ï¿œpm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>
>>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>>>
>>> And then went back on it.
>>>
>>> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.
>>
>> Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.
>>
>> (Basically, William Jennings Bryan's position won, though he didn't.)
>
> Whoever he may be.

Well, presumably if you cared about the Gold Standard and US History,
you'd know or find out.

To bring up the Gold Standard and US History and then make a dismissive
sound about someone involved in that seems to me ... rude ... which
isn't how I normally think of Steve Hayes.

If you didn't care about William Jennings Bryan, just silently letting
it pass would have been more appropriate, but maybe you shouldn't have
gotten into the GS&USH issue in the first place.

/dps
]

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

[James Hogg]

The Norwegian brothers Odd & Even Stranger may be apocryphal.

--
James

[Martin Edwards]

Like the Scottish [anti-gay joke snipped].

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Snidely wrote:
>
> Steve Hayes explained on 9/9/2012 :

>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
[...]

>>> Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.
>>>
>>> (Basically, William Jennings Bryan's position won, though he
>>> didn't.)
>>
>> Whoever he may be.
>>
> Well, presumably if you cared about the Gold Standard and US
> History, you'd know or find out.
>
> To bring up the Gold Standard and US History and then make a
> dismissive sound about someone involved in that seems to me
> ... rude ... which isn't how I normally think of Steve Hayes.
>

If you normally think of Steve Hayes as "AUE's Village Idiot,"
you don't go wrong.

>
> If you didn't care about William Jennings Bryan, just silently
> letting it pass would have been more appropriate, but maybe you
> shouldn't have gotten into the GS&USH issue in the first place.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[Trond Engen]

James Hogg:

A lot of confusion but not, disappointingly, the odd lie.

Lie is a very common surname, originating as a farmname. There are farms
all over the country named Li "hillside". <ie> is an archaic (danified)
spelling of long [i]. It can also be written with final (etymological
but silent) -d.

> The Norwegian brothers Odd & Even Stranger may be apocryphal.

Probably. Stranger is a rare surname. Oslo's legendary mayor Rolf
Stranger (<http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Stranger>) is the only one
I can remember ever having heard of, and I see that he adopted the name
after his mother's father's mother.

--
Trond Engen

[Frederick Williams]

Steve Hayes wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:31:28 +0200, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>

> >the Omrud escribió:

> >
> >> "bent" is also outdated impolite slang for homosexual.
> >>
> >
> >But the adjective "nine-bob" is still used to mean homosexual.
>
> The full phrase was "as queer as a nine-bob note" was often used for anything
> unusual, as were other variants, such as "as queer as a clockwork orange"
> (which found its way into the title of a book).
>
> In 1968 a friend of mine, who had been to a theological college in England,
> was looking for a bishop to ordain and employ him. The following conversation
> ensued:
>
> Bishop: are you married?
> Student: No.
> Bishop: Are you planning to get married?
> Student: No.
> Bishop: Why is that?
> Student: I'm as queer as a nine bob note.
> Bishop: Are you tempted to, er, give expression to these urges?
> Student: Frequently.
> Bishop: And what do you do in that case?
> Student: I masturbate and read a funny book.

Were I the bish, I would have asked which book.

Was your friend ordained and employed?

--
Where are the songs of Summer?--With the sun,
Oping the dusky eyelids of the south,
Till shade and silence waken up as one,
And morning sings with a warm odorous mouth.

[Bill McCray]

On 9/9/2012 9:14 PM, R H Draney wrote:
>
> Kathryn Hahn (star of "Crossing Jordan")

I thought Jill Hennessy was star of that show. Has the meaning of
"star" deteriorated to the extent that anyone on the show regularly is
considered to be a star?

Bill in Kentucky

[Daniel James]

In article <$Lkn2LMt...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson wrote:
> IIRC*, when the UK went decimal (15 Feb, 1971), the UK pound was
> indeed worth 2.4 dollars, a 1p = 1c. Spooky!

No, no, if one UK pound was worth 2.4 US Dollars then 1p was worth 2.4
cents ...

.. but 1d = 1c, yes. That would have been so.

> *But don't quote me.

Oops! Sorry, I just did.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <VA.000006a...@me.invalid>, Daniel James
<dan...@me.invalid> writes

I simply don't know how or why I put "p" instead of "d".
--
Ian

[John Varela]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:10:40 UTC, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

There really was a Houston heiress named Ima Hogg. Her sister,
Youra, was imaginary.

--
John Varela

Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and
murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure
wind. -- George Orwell

[John Varela]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 00:29:05 UTC, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>
> And then went back on it.
>
> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.

That's not quite right. Roosevelt called in all the gold coinage and
the "gold back" paper money, which was redeemable for gold. US
citizens were no longer permitted to own gold coins and were
restricted to fiat currency and, after 1964, base metal coins.
Except, as Tony says, citizens could own gold coins for numismatic
reasons.

For American citizens who wanted to invest in gold, Credit Suisse
got around this by selling claims to kruger rands in their vaults;
the investor didn't actually own the gold, he only owned claims to
the gold, but the claims were bought and sold at the bullion spread.

Another way to invest in gold was to buy stock in gold mining
companies.

Meanwhile, the US did not go off the gold standard. A dollar was
worth 1/35 ounce of gold, devalued from (I think it was) 1/24, even
though citizens were no longer permitted to own gold. Gold was,
however, used for settling international accounts until the US went
off the gold standard entirely in the early '70s.

We are now permitted to own gold in the land of the free.

A common-date $10 gold piece is today worth about $1,800 and $1000
of silver dimes is worth over $20,000.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:05:10 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes explained on 9/9/2012 :
>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>

>>> On Sep 9, 8:25�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>>
>>>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>>>>
>>>> And then went back on it.
>>>>
>>>> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.
>>>
>>> Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.
>>>
>>> (Basically, William Jennings Bryan's position won, though he didn't.)
>>
>> Whoever he may be.
>
>Well, presumably if you cared about the Gold Standard and US History,
>you'd know or find out.

I don't greatly care about it, but was just pointing it out.

The reason I remembered it was that going *off* the gold standard gave new
life to marginal mines.

>To bring up the Gold Standard and US History and then make a dismissive
>sound about someone involved in that seems to me ... rude ... which
>isn't how I normally think of Steve Hayes.

I wasn't being dismissive, I was merely pointing out my ignorance of the
identity of the person mentioned.

>
>If you didn't care about William Jennings Bryan, just silently letting
>it pass would have been more appropriate, but maybe you shouldn't have
>gotten into the GS&USH issue in the first place.

The only issue I was concerned with was when the price of gold ceased to be
fixed at $US35.00 an ounce, and that it wasn't in 1933.

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:57:10 +0100, Frederick Williams
<freddyw...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes wrote:

>> In 1968 a friend of mine, who had been to a theological college in England,
>> was looking for a bishop to ordain and employ him. The following conversation
>> ensued:
>>
>> Bishop: are you married?
>> Student: No.
>> Bishop: Are you planning to get married?
>> Student: No.
>> Bishop: Why is that?
>> Student: I'm as queer as a nine bob note.
>> Bishop: Are you tempted to, er, give expression to these urges?
>> Student: Frequently.
>> Bishop: And what do you do in that case?
>> Student: I masturbate and read a funny book.
>
>Were I the bish, I would have asked which book.
>
>Was your friend ordained and employed?

Yes, but I can't remember if it was by that bishop.

[Steve Hayes]

On 10 Sep 2012 16:53:36 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 00:29:05 UTC, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>>
>> And then went back on it.
>>
>> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.

>Meanwhile, the US did not go off the gold standard. A dollar was
>worth 1/35 ounce of gold, devalued from (I think it was) 1/24, even
>though citizens were no longer permitted to own gold. Gold was,
>however, used for settling international accounts until the US went
>off the gold standard entirely in the early '70s.

Ok, but that last bit was the point that I was trying to make.

"For example, under the Bretton Woods monetary system, which existed from 1948
to 1971, gold was defined in terms of a gold price of $35.00/oz."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/05/30/a-new-gold-standard-needs-the-right-gold-price/2/

In other words, not 1933, but 1948-1971.

"The first element of the Bretton Woods Accord was to peg the U.S. dollar to
the price of gold at $35.00 an ounce, using the Gold Standard."
http://www.traderslog.com/bretton-woods-accord/

And if anyone wants the exact date on which the Gold Standard ended (which I
had forgotten, I just remembered it was in the early 1970s), see this:

"The Bretton Woods System, enacted in 1946 created a system of fixed exchange
rates that allowed governments to sell their gold to the United States
treasury at the price of $35/ounce. "The Bretton Woods system ended on August
15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon ended trading of gold at the fixed
price of $35/ounce."
http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard.htm

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 10, 1:05 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:05:10 -0700, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Steve Hayes explained on 9/9/2012 :
> >> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sep 9, 8:25 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>
> >>>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>> The US went off the gold standard in 1933.
>
> >>>> And then went back on it.
>
> >>>> Gold was $US35.00 an ounce until the early 1970s.
>
> >>> Gold could not be privately owned from 1933 to 1971 or whenever.
>
> >>> (Basically, William Jennings Bryan's position won, though he didn't.)
>
> >> Whoever he may be.
>
> >Well, presumably if you cared about the Gold Standard and US History,
> >you'd know or find out.
>
> I don't greatly care about it, but was just pointing it out.
>
> The reason I remembered it was that going *off* the gold standard gave new
> life to marginal mines.
>
> >To bring up the Gold Standard and US History and then make a dismissive
> >sound about someone involved in that seems to me ... rude ... which
> >isn't how I normally think of Steve Hayes.
>
> I wasn't being dismissive, I was merely pointing out my ignorance of the
> identity of the person mentioned.

He was the Democratic candidate for president three times. One of the
most famous lspeeches in American oratory (at the 1896 Convention)
ends with the line "You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of
gold."

> >If you didn't care about William Jennings Bryan, just silently letting
> >it pass would have been more appropriate, but maybe you shouldn't have
> >gotten into the GS&USH issue in the first place.
>
> The only issue I was concerned with was when the price of gold ceased to be
> fixed at $US35.00 an ounce, and that it wasn't in 1933.

No one suggested it was.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:26:22 +0200, Trond Engen
<tron...@engen.priv.no> wrote in
<news:k2k856$5l1$1...@dont-email.me> in
alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english,sci.lang:

[...]

> Lie is a very common surname, originating as a farmname.
> There are farms all over the country named Li "hillside".
> <ie> is an archaic (danified) spelling of long [i]. It
> can also be written with final (etymological but silent)
> -d.

Aha. So it's <hl��>?

[...]

Brian

[Trond Engen]

Brian M. Scott:

Yes. Most famously, maybe, Erik the red's family farm in Greenland,
<Brattahl��> "Steep hillside>. It's not what you'd expect as the first
choice for settlement! But I suppose, a steeper hillside catches more of
the summer sun and makes for a faster thaw and better growth.

I should say that the -e might also stem from the feminine plural ending
so ubitiquous in names for settlements, i.e. < ON <Hl��ir>, but I can't
think of any example where it's pronounced /2lie/ in the modern
language. Except for a part of my hometown, by some, but I think that's
a reading pronunciation after the archaizing spelling.

--
Trond Engen

[Tom P]

On 09/09/2012 02:03 PM, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> On Sep 9, 11:48 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> in a post I heard the expression "the police were bent". here in the
>> US I had always heard "the police were crooked" (never "bent"). is
>> there here a difference between Br. Eng. and Am. Eng. or is it just my
>> ignorance?
>

> "Crooked" in some general sense of "dishonest" goes well back into
> Middle English.
> "Bent" in this sense is 20th century. OED says "originally U.S.", but
> they have only one 1914 citation that would support this. Like you, I
> have the impression that it's now a Br./Am. thing, but maybe it was
> not always so.
>

To my ear it sounds like 1950s Hollywood, "a bent cop", meaning one with
criminal connections.

[R H Draney]

Jerry Friedman filted:
>
>On Sep 9, 6:48=A0pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Sep 9, 10:55=A0am, Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > cops: 341, mostly about the police
>> > coppers: 100, probably less than half about the police (but I didn't
>> > check the proportions carefully)
>>
>> in the reruns of the series "Law and Order, UK" they always use
>> "copper" instead of "cop" and there is a series in BBC America called
>> "Copper" about an Irish policeman in Civil War Era New York.
>
>I trust the cops about corpses and the corpus about "cops".

I never trust a corps in a copse....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Tom P]

..And there is a cottage by yonder lea
This couple's married and does agree
So maids be loyal when your love's at sea
For a cloudy morning
For a cloudy morning brings in a sunny day.
- dark eyed sailor.

In sailing, leeward is the side away from wind, or downwind.

[R H Draney]

Bill McCray filted:

Never watched it, and that's the identification Wiki came up with when I looked
for another way to identify Hahn other than as the female lead in "Free
Agents"....

Checking their entry for "Crossing Jordan", I see a sidebar listing six names
under the heading "Starring"....r

[Robert Bannister]

On 11/09/12 5:37 AM, Tom P wrote:

> In sailing, leeward is the side away from wind, or downwind.

Clearly another possibility for the origin of "loo".
--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:37:26 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:

>In sailing, leeward is the side away from wind, or downwind.

And "leeway" is the tendency of sailing ships to drift off course to leeward,
which is undesirable. But landlubbers often speak of leeway as if it were
desirable.

[Robert Bannister]

On 11/09/12 11:02 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:37:26 +0200, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
>> In sailing, leeward is the side away from wind, or downwind.
>
> And "leeway" is the tendency of sailing ships to drift off course to leeward,
> which is undesirable. But landlubbers often speak of leeway as if it were
> desirable.
>
>

Surely only in the sense of "Give me some leeway" - in other words, give
me room to thread-drift... I mean drift off course.

--
Robert Bannister

[alien8er]

On Sep 9, 10:03 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 9/09/12 10:00 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 05:06:32 -0700 (PDT), Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> and I understand from BBC America that "cop" is "copper" in Britain?
>
> > Which is presumably the origin of the term "bent copper".
>
> > For anyone who can remember back to the 1950s and 1960s when British money was
> > worth 240 times what it's worth today, you could go to a public loo for a
> > penny (there was even a book called "The good loo guide").
>
> > And one definition of "jive" (a kind of dance that was popular back then) was
> > "a man standing outside a public lavatory with a bent penny."
>
> > So a bent copper is a pun on that.
>
> There may be a play on words, but I doubt that is the origin.
> "Crooked" leads to "bent" (dishonest) and "twisted" (eccentric in an
> unsavoury way) quite naturally.

So what, exactly, does Beckham bend?


Mark L. Fergerson

[R H Draney]

alien8er filted:

He's since gone into the Spice trade....r

[Trond Engen]

Tom P:

Eng. 'lea' is a different word, Germanic *lauxaz "clearing". (Eng. -ea-
is the regular outcome of -au-.) It may be the same as the -loo of
'Waterloo', but I think I also have seen the latter explained as the
same -l� "plain by water" as in 'Oslo'.

> In sailing, leeward is the side away from wind, or downwind.

Yet a different word. This corresponds to Norwegian 'le' "shielding,
protection (from wind or rain)", ON <hl�>, PNG *hlewa- "warmth,
shieldedness". This may be the first element of the recurrent name from
early Runic inscriptions, <hlewagastiR>.

--
Trond Engen

[pauljk]

"Daniel James" <dan...@me.invalid> wrote in message
news:VA.000006a...@me.invalid...

> In article <$Lkn2LMt...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> IIRC*, when the UK went decimal (15 Feb, 1971), the UK pound was
>> indeed worth 2.4 dollars, a 1p = 1c. Spooky!
>
> No, no, if one UK pound was worth 2.4 US Dollars then 1p was worth 2.4
> cents ...
>
> .. but 1d = 1c, yes. That would have been so.

... by which you meant 1d = 1¢, yes?

>> *But don't quote me.
>
> Oops! Sorry, I just did.

Me too, being sorry, that is.

pjk

[pauljk]

"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MUSbRuL2...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...

Well it didn't get displayed the right way up even on our
screens down here down under.

pjk