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Message from discussion Have these words been deleted?
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Alan Jones  
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 More options Jun 16 2003, 2:24 pm
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
From: "Alan Jones" <a...@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:20:54 +0100
Local: Mon, Jun 16 2003 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: Have these words been deleted?

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.n...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns939C981D5E6whhvans@62.253.162.114...

> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:31:27 GMT, UpNorthBob wrote
[...]
> > This group is
> > like most of the other ones in which I have tried to
> > participate - patronized by a few regulars who banter back
> > and forth. As soon as a new person comes in with some
> > question or observation, we get nothing but smart-ass
> > comments. Sorry to invade your personal domain.
> Sorry you feel that way.  Your original post displayed what can often
> ben seen in this group:  a new person comes in and, by means of a
> loaded question, displays a hackneyed and under-researched view of
> English usage.

> So let's return to your original post.
[...]
>         It's getting increasingly frustrating to hear professional
>         (supposedly) speakers utter sentences such as, "He's a
>         person THAT will work LESS hours for a smaller AMOUNT of
>         dollars."
> Ah:  I think that can probably be taken to imply that you feel that
> these are "incorrect" usages, whilst the words you prefer are the
> "correct" ones.  That's more like parading an ill-informed prejudice
> rather than asking a question or offering an observation.

> If -- prior to jumping in with both feet -- you'd cared to spend a
> little time perusing the archive of this group and the FAQ pages of
> alt.usage.english, you'd find that many posters here do not consider
> such changes to be indicative of a decline in either linguistic or
> general educational standards.

>         Also has the term "stricter" always been used rather than
>         "more strict?"

> Probably.  It's certainly the single most common method of forming a
> comparative;  if it gets used often enough it will qualify as becomes
> standard" English.

Two further notes:

In BrE, "that" is, and as far as I know always has been, fully acceptable as
an alternative to "who" and "whom" when introducing a defining/restrictive
adjectival clause. I don't know why or when the superstition arose that it
is somehow wrong.

The use of the suffixes -er and -est is certainly standard in BrE for
"strict", as for most one- and two- syllable adjectives. The "more strict"
form has become commoner [sic] in my lifetime (some 65 years of reading and
writing English, almost 40 of them teaching it) but seems to me generally
awkward and ugly.

Alan Jones


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