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Jerry Avins
May 25, 2012, 6:16:48 PM5/25/12
to
I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both. All
claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both. All
claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Bill McCray
May 25, 2012, 6:30:44 PM5/25/12
to
On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
brother and it makes more sense.
> All
> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
Bill in Kentucky
Jerry Avins
May 26, 2012, 12:23:03 AM5/26/12
to
On 5/25/2012 6:30 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>
> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
> brother and it makes more sense.
My wife's brother ("pesky kid brother" when he was 5 and she 11). I
> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>
> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
> brother and it makes more sense.
ought to have been clear.
>> All
>> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
>
> I don't know of any, but there probably are some.
GordonD
May 26, 2012, 4:11:11 AM5/26/12
to
"Jerry Avins" <j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:HUYvr.15599$FL5....@newsfe03.iad...
marriage".
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."
news:HUYvr.15599$FL5....@newsfe03.iad...
> On 5/25/2012 6:30 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>>
>> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
>> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
>> brother and it makes more sense.
>
> My wife's brother ("pesky kid brother" when he was 5 and she 11). I ought
> to have been clear.
>
>>> All
>>> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>>> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>>> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
I would differentiate by "related through blood" and "related through
>> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>>
>> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
>> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
>> brother and it makes more sense.
>
> My wife's brother ("pesky kid brother" when he was 5 and she 11). I ought
> to have been clear.
>
>>> All
>>> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>>> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>>> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
marriage".
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
May 26, 2012, 6:49:24 AM5/26/12
to
On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:11:11 +0100, "GordonD" <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
In BrE we sometimes use the phrases "blood relatives", those with shared
DNA, and "in-laws", those related by marriage (connected by law).
When a couple are "living together as husband and wife", as the official
phrase puts it, without being married, I think of their equivalent of
"in-laws" as "out-laws". However, I've not tried using that phrase in
real life.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
wrote:
DNA, and "in-laws", those related by marriage (connected by law).
When a couple are "living together as husband and wife", as the official
phrase puts it, without being married, I think of their equivalent of
"in-laws" as "out-laws". However, I've not tried using that phrase in
real life.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
GordonD
May 26, 2012, 7:54:31 AM5/26/12
to
"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:stc1s7hqesackhvoe...@4ax.com...
Isaac Asimov claimed he used to refer to his daughter's boyfriends as
"sins-in-law".
news:stc1s7hqesackhvoe...@4ax.com...
"sins-in-law".
semir...@my-deja.com
May 26, 2012, 7:07:26 PM5/26/12
to
On May 25, 11:16 pm, Jerry Avins
>I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both. All
>claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>those with whom I share DNA and those who don't? Jerry
I know of no recognised way to make the distinction.
It is, however, easy enough to talk of "my own nephews" and
"my wife's nephews", and make clear your reasoning for the
difference.
"Our nephews" would be a term to include both sets.
>I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both. All
>claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>those with whom I share DNA and those who don't? Jerry
It is, however, easy enough to talk of "my own nephews" and
"my wife's nephews", and make clear your reasoning for the
difference.
"Our nephews" would be a term to include both sets.
Bill McCray
May 26, 2012, 7:09:37 PM5/26/12
to
On 5/26/2012 6:49 AM, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:11:11 +0100, "GordonD"<g.d...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Jerry Avins"<j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
>> news:HUYvr.15599$FL5....@newsfe03.iad...
>>> On 5/25/2012 6:30 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>>>>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>>>>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>>>>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>>>>
>>>> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
>>>> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
>>>> brother and it makes more sense.
>>>
>>> My wife's brother ("pesky kid brother" when he was 5 and she 11). I ought
>>> to have been clear.
>>>
>>>>> All
>>>>> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>>>>> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>>>>> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
>>
>>
>> I would differentiate by "related through blood" and "related through
>> marriage".
>
> In BrE we sometimes use the phrases "blood relatives", those with shared
> DNA, and "in-laws", those related by marriage (connected by law).
One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:11:11 +0100, "GordonD"<g.d...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Jerry Avins"<j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
>> news:HUYvr.15599$FL5....@newsfe03.iad...
>>> On 5/25/2012 6:30 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2012 6:16 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
>>>>> I have several nieces and nephews. Some are children of my sisters,
>>>>> while others are children of my brother-in-law. I am related only to the
>>>>> former by blood, but my own children are equally related to both.
>>>>
>>>> I originally took brother-in-law to be your sister's husband, which
>>>> caused lots of confusion. I realized that he could be your wife's
>>>> brother and it makes more sense.
>>>
>>> My wife's brother ("pesky kid brother" when he was 5 and she 11). I ought
>>> to have been clear.
>>>
>>>>> All
>>>>> claim me as their favorite uncle, which is undeniably true: I am the
>>>>> only living uncle any of them has. What adjectives properly attach to
>>>>> those with whom I share DNA and those who don't?
>>
>>
>> I would differentiate by "related through blood" and "related through
>> marriage".
>
> In BrE we sometimes use the phrases "blood relatives", those with shared
> DNA, and "in-laws", those related by marriage (connected by law).
us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
> When a couple are "living together as husband and wife", as the official
> phrase puts it, without being married, I think of their equivalent of
> "in-laws" as "out-laws". However, I've not tried using that phrase in
> real life.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
May 26, 2012, 8:03:44 PM5/26/12
to
>> When a couple are "living together as husband and wife", as the official
>> phrase puts it, without being married, I think of their equivalent of
>> "in-laws" as "out-laws". However, I've not tried using that phrase in
>> real life.
>
>Bill in Kentucky
Daniel James
May 27, 2012, 3:01:05 PM5/27/12
to
In article <jprnrd$ecu$1...@news.albasani.net>, Bill McCray wrote:
> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
I think it's more like "self-in-law", isn't it?
> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
Cheers,
Daniel.
Jerry Avins
May 27, 2012, 4:08:29 PM5/27/12
to
On 5/26/2012 7:09 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
...
> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>
> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
That seems reasonable. Even without a marriage license, she could be
your common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
...
> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>
> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
your common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
Ian Jackson
May 27, 2012, 4:30:46 PM5/27/12
to
In message <_Qvwr.9962$br3....@newsfe10.iad>, Jerry Avins
<j...@ieee.org> writes
"common law wife". It confers no legal status on the wife, so she does
not enjoy any of the legal privileges and benefits which are provided by
marriage or civil partnership.
--
Ian
<j...@ieee.org> writes
>On 5/26/2012 7:09 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
>> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
>> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
>> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>>
>> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
>
>That seems reasonable. Even without a marriage license, she could be
>your common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
>
Apparently, in the UK (all of it), there is legally no such thing as a
>
> ...
>
>> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
>> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
>> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
>> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>>
>> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
>
>That seems reasonable. Even without a marriage license, she could be
>your common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
>
"common law wife". It confers no legal status on the wife, so she does
not enjoy any of the legal privileges and benefits which are provided by
marriage or civil partnership.
--
Ian
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
May 27, 2012, 6:08:16 PM5/27/12
to
repute" but that was abolished by the Family Law (Scotland) Act 2006.
Ian Jackson
May 28, 2012, 3:16:49 AM5/28/12
to
In message <ia95s7henogjjn30a...@4ax.com>, "Peter
Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
In the Jewish tradition, isn't there a whole plethora of names for the
in-laws and their relations (for example, there's a name for "my
mother-in-law's brother's daughter's uncle")?
--
Ian
Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
in-laws and their relations (for example, there's a name for "my
mother-in-law's brother's daughter's uncle")?
--
Ian
GordonD
May 28, 2012, 6:19:38 AM5/28/12
to
"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5eB2jaH2...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
I remember some years ago people were trying to come up with a term for a
person with whom one was in a relationship that was between 'girlfriend' and
'wife'*, since the phrase 'common-law wife' was seen as awkward and maybe
even a bit patronising (the 'common' bit.) In Scotland the term 'bidie-in'
(i.e. the person who bides or lives with you) was suggested but never caught
on. And then almost overnight everybody was using the word 'partner', which
is ideal. Anybody know when that was first used?
* It should be assumed that female pronouns include the male ones as well.
news:5eB2jaH2...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
person with whom one was in a relationship that was between 'girlfriend' and
'wife'*, since the phrase 'common-law wife' was seen as awkward and maybe
even a bit patronising (the 'common' bit.) In Scotland the term 'bidie-in'
(i.e. the person who bides or lives with you) was suggested but never caught
on. And then almost overnight everybody was using the word 'partner', which
is ideal. Anybody know when that was first used?
* It should be assumed that female pronouns include the male ones as well.
GordonD
May 28, 2012, 6:20:12 AM5/28/12
to
"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:z1kE57Bh...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
May 28, 2012, 7:05:10 AM5/28/12
to
On Mon, 28 May 2012 11:19:38 +0100, "GordonD" <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:5eB2jaH2...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <_Qvwr.9962$br3....@newsfe10.iad>, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org>
>> writes
>>>On 5/26/2012 7:09 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
>>>> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
>>>> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
>>>> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>>>>
>>>> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
>>>
>>>That seems reasonable. Even without a marriage license, she could be your
>>>common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
>>>
>> Apparently, in the UK (all of it), there is legally no such thing as a
>> "common law wife". It confers no legal status on the wife, so she does not
>> enjoy any of the legal privileges and benefits which are provided by
>> marriage or civil partnership.
>
>
>I remember some years ago people were trying to come up with a term for a
>person with whom one was in a relationship that was between 'girlfriend' and
>'wife'*, since the phrase 'common-law wife' was seen as awkward and maybe
>even a bit patronising (the 'common' bit.) In Scotland the term 'bidie-in'
>(i.e. the person who bides or lives with you) was suggested but never caught
>on. And then almost overnight everybody was using the word 'partner', which
>is ideal. Anybody know when that was first used?
>
Judging by the quotations in the OED, "partner" has been in use for a
husband or wife, or a sexual partner, for a long time, but not in quite
the legal or quasi-legal sense you are asking about.
7.a. A person who is linked by marriage to another, a spouse; a
member of a couple who live together or are habitual companions; a
lover.
Now increasingly used in legal and contractual contexts to refer
to a member of a couple in a long-standing relationship of any
kind, so as to give equal recognition to marriage, cohabitation,
same-sex relationships, etc.
1667 Milton Paradise Lost x. 128, ... the partner of my life.
1749 T. Smollett Regicide ii. viii. 27 What means the gentle
Part'ner of my Heart?
1789 A. Francis Poet. Transl. Song of Solomon Pref. p. viii, She
speaks but little; just enough to convince her royal partner of
the preference her heart gives him.
1816 R. Southey Poet's Pilgrimage i. i. viii, So forth I
set..And took the partner of my life with me.
1879 F. W. Farrar Life & Work St. Paul II. ix. xxxii. 69 The
believing wife or husband might win to the faith the unbelieving
partner.
1884 W. Cudworth Dial. Sketches 112 He cud liv o' luv, if shoo
wor nobbut his pairtner.
1977 Gay News 24 Mar. 14/3 It is relatively easy for homosexual
partners to back-track from their mistakes in partner selection.
1994 Origins Autumn 7/1 If my partner was a man, even if we
weren't married I would have got Unemployment Insurance.
2000 Adv. Driving (Inst. Adv. Motorists) Summer 51/2 If you are
a married or cohabiting man, try adding your partner to your
insurance policy.
>* It should be assumed that female pronouns include the male ones as well.
--
wrote:
>"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:5eB2jaH2...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <_Qvwr.9962$br3....@newsfe10.iad>, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org>
>> writes
>>>On 5/26/2012 7:09 PM, Bill McCray wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> One day a reporter and I were just chatting, when a woman walked up to
>>>> us. The reporter said "Do you know Pat"? I said "Yes, we're related by
>>>> marriage." She thought a minute and said "Are you saying that you're
>>>> married to her?" I said "Yes." The reporter liked my answer.
>>>>
>>>> So does that make Pat my wife-in-law?
>>>
>>>That seems reasonable. Even without a marriage license, she could be your
>>>common-law wife. It's an honorable status.
>>>
>> Apparently, in the UK (all of it), there is legally no such thing as a
>> "common law wife". It confers no legal status on the wife, so she does not
>> enjoy any of the legal privileges and benefits which are provided by
>> marriage or civil partnership.
>
>
>I remember some years ago people were trying to come up with a term for a
>person with whom one was in a relationship that was between 'girlfriend' and
>'wife'*, since the phrase 'common-law wife' was seen as awkward and maybe
>even a bit patronising (the 'common' bit.) In Scotland the term 'bidie-in'
>(i.e. the person who bides or lives with you) was suggested but never caught
>on. And then almost overnight everybody was using the word 'partner', which
>is ideal. Anybody know when that was first used?
>
husband or wife, or a sexual partner, for a long time, but not in quite
the legal or quasi-legal sense you are asking about.
7.a. A person who is linked by marriage to another, a spouse; a
member of a couple who live together or are habitual companions; a
lover.
Now increasingly used in legal and contractual contexts to refer
to a member of a couple in a long-standing relationship of any
kind, so as to give equal recognition to marriage, cohabitation,
same-sex relationships, etc.
1667 Milton Paradise Lost x. 128, ... the partner of my life.
1749 T. Smollett Regicide ii. viii. 27 What means the gentle
Part'ner of my Heart?
1789 A. Francis Poet. Transl. Song of Solomon Pref. p. viii, She
speaks but little; just enough to convince her royal partner of
the preference her heart gives him.
1816 R. Southey Poet's Pilgrimage i. i. viii, So forth I
set..And took the partner of my life with me.
1879 F. W. Farrar Life & Work St. Paul II. ix. xxxii. 69 The
believing wife or husband might win to the faith the unbelieving
partner.
1884 W. Cudworth Dial. Sketches 112 He cud liv o' luv, if shoo
wor nobbut his pairtner.
1977 Gay News 24 Mar. 14/3 It is relatively easy for homosexual
partners to back-track from their mistakes in partner selection.
1994 Origins Autumn 7/1 If my partner was a man, even if we
weren't married I would have got Unemployment Insurance.
2000 Adv. Driving (Inst. Adv. Motorists) Summer 51/2 If you are
a married or cohabiting man, try adding your partner to your
insurance policy.
>* It should be assumed that female pronouns include the male ones as well.
--
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