eco-tableware?
lcy
I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
Peter Moylan
Cutlery.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Spehro Pefhany
<gro.nalyomp@retep> wrote:
>lcy wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
>Cutlery.
I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Arcadian Rises
wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:49:30 +1100, the renowned Peter Moylan
>
> <gro.nalyomp@retep> wrote:
> >lcy wrote:
> >> Dear all,
> >> � � � I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
> >> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. �But I am
> >> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
> >> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? �Thank you very much!
>
> >Cutlery.
>
> I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
>
I believe the question was how to make people aware that the OP is
environmentally correct, especially when eating with own eating
utensils in order to save the environment the trouble of digesting one
set of disposable cutlery.
If you say "eco-cutlery" or "eco-eating-utensils" those pieces must be
bio-degradable, otherwise, you mislead the people.
Since I cannot think of a comprehensive word, I suggest you wear a T-
shirt with your written manifesto about saving the environment by
eating with your own cutlery.
TrysB
How about using the current buzz-word green? --as in: I
brought my own greenware to use at the restaurant.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Gary T. Bentley
TrysB: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdqlz/profile.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------
mm
<Arcadi...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 26, 9:59?pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:49:30 +1100, the renowned Peter Moylan
>>
>> <gro.nalyomp@retep> wrote:
>> >lcy wrote:
>> >> Dear all,
>> >> ? ? ? I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> >> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. ?But I am
>> >> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> >> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? ?Thank you very much!
>>
>> >Cutlery.
>>
>> I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
>>
>
>I believe the question was how to make people aware that the OP is
>environmentally correct, especially when eating with own eating
>utensils in order to save the environment the trouble of digesting one
>set of disposable cutlery.
>
>If you say "eco-cutlery" or "eco-eating-utensils" those pieces must be
>bio-degradable, otherwise, you mislead the people.
Well, if you use the same metal utensils for decades, I think that
would be eco-friendly.
But otoh, eco-cutlery sounds an awful lot like Ecko-cutlery.
>
>Since I cannot think of a comprehensive word, I suggest you wear a T-
>shirt with your written manifesto about saving the environment by
>eating with your own cutlery.
I agree.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
mm
<trysb-...@englishforums.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me
>> when eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I
>> am wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
>How about using the current buzz-word green? --as in: I
> brought my own greenware to use at the restaurant.
>
Have you ever tried to eat soup with a lettuce leaf?
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Gary T. Bentley
>
>TrysB: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdqlz/profile.htm
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Fred
"TrysB" <trysb-...@englishforums.com> wrote in message
news:8ebc9eda68aa43bc...@englishforums.com...
>> Dear all,
> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me
>> when eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I
>> am wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
> How about using the current buzz-word green? --as in: I
> brought my own greenware to use at the restaurant.
>
>
annily
> On Nov 26, 9:59�pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:49:30 +1100, the renowned Peter Moylan
>>
>> <gro.nalyomp@retep> wrote:
>>> lcy wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> � � � I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. �But I am
>>>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? �Thank you very much!
>>> Cutlery.
>> I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
>>
>
> I believe the question was how to make people aware that the OP is
> environmentally correct, especially when eating with own eating
> utensils in order to save the environment the trouble of digesting one
> set of disposable cutlery.
>
I was puzzled when reading the OP, because disposable cutlery never
occurred to me when "eating out" was mentioned. I assumed he was talking
about eating in a restaurant, and although I don't do that often, I
don't think many of them use disposable cutlery.
--
Long-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia,
which may or may not influence my opinions.
annily
Oh, I suppose he was talking about fast-food places, not what I think of
as restaurants.
Steve Hayes
I'm wondering how that protects the environment?
Does it mean you never wash them, and so save water?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
R H Draney
>
>On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:21:47 -0800 (PST), lcy <lcyi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
>I'm wondering how that protects the environment?
>
>Does it mean you never wash them, and so save water?
For the chopsticks, at least, it means one *does* wash them, later at home,
instead of throwing out the disposable ones provided by most takeaway places
(after first breaking them to prevent their retrieval and use by tanuki, of
course) and thus not only cluttering up the environment but depleting the stock
of wood used to make them....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Steve Hayes
>Steve Hayes filted:
>>
>>On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:21:47 -0800 (PST), lcy <lcyi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dear all,
>>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>>eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>>wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>>chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>
>>I'm wondering how that protects the environment?
>>
>>Does it mean you never wash them, and so save water?
>
>For the chopsticks, at least, it means one *does* wash them, later at home,
>instead of throwing out the disposable ones provided by most takeaway places
>(after first breaking them to prevent their retrieval and use by tanuki, of
>course) and thus not only cluttering up the environment but depleting the stock
>of wood used to make them....r
Perhaps the OP should clarify what he or she means by "eating out".
When I get stuff from a takeaway joint I useually bring it home to eat, so it
is not really "eating out". And taking my own cutlery and other utensils along
to a takeaway joint only to bring them home again seems a bit pointless.
To me "eating out" means going to a restaurant and sitting down for a meal,
and I can't see how taking my own utensils would save the environment. In the
restaurant they probably throw even the unused utensils into the wash, just to
be on the safe side -- "health and safety" regulations probably demand it.
the Omrud
obAUE:
That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring" something
unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has to have
"take" there.
I am at home:
- I always take my computer to the office in the morning.
- I always bring my computer home in the evening.
I am at the office:
- I always bring my computer to the office in the morning.
- I always take my computer home in the evening.
--
David
annily
> lcy wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
> obAUE:
>
> That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring" something
> unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has to have
> "take" there.
>
Yes, good point. I would always use "take" in that context too.
tsuidf
> annily wrote:
> > I was puzzled when reading the OP, because disposable cutlery never
> > occurred to me when "eating out" was mentioned. I assumed he was talking
> > about eating in a restaurant, and although I don't do that often, I
> > don't think many of them use disposable cutlery.
>
> Oh, I suppose he was talking about fast-food places, not what I think of
> as restaurants.
I'm guessing the original poster may have been writing from China,
where this is a quite current debate, particularly among university
students. Many Chinese restaurants traditionally use bamboo/wood
chopsticks which are thrown away after one use. There has been quite
a 'campaign' (in the sense of popular movement, not government-
imposed) to bring one's own chopsticks and then reuse them.
Given the massive deforestation of northern China over the last couple
of hundred years, this seems laudable even if some water is used for
washing. But greater minds than mine undoubtedly have done the
calculations somewhere.
cheers from Brussels,
Stephanie
Mike Barnes
Or the person you're speaking to is at the destination.
My wife phones me at the office:
Wife: I want to use the computer this evening
Me: I'll bring it home with me
I agree that BrE would have "take" in the original question. I'm not
accustomed to using disposables even when eating out[1], so I don't have
a term for the other sort. The best answer I can come up with is "non-
disposable".
[1] I actually have no idea whether chopsticks are washed and re-used; I
just assume they are.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
James Hogg
> the Omrud wrote:
>> lcy wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>
>> obAUE:
>>
>> That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring"
>> something unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has
>> to have "take" there.
>>
>
> Yes, good point. I would always use "take" in that context too.
But if the invitation says "Bring a bottle" I usually obey and bring one.
--
James
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>lcy wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
>obAUE:
>
>That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring" something
>unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has to have
>"take" there.
I took it to mean that he/she was already at the restaurant where they were
eating out, and had brought their own cutlery with them. But it seems from
what others have said that I may have been wrong about the restaurant, but in
that case, "bring" was part of the misle.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>lcy wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
>obAUE:
>
>That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE.
Well now...
> You can't "bring" something
>unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has to have
>"take" there.
>
>I am at home:
>- I always take my computer to the office in the morning.
>- I always bring my computer home in the evening.
>
>I am at the office:
>- I always bring my computer to the office in the morning.
>- I always take my computer home in the evening.
That use of bring is still in use in Northern Ireland. I still recall an
occasion when my my boss spoke to a visitor. The visitor was there to
meet people who were in different buildings. When it was time to for him
to leave and go to see the next person my boss offered to escort him:
"Shall I bring you to X?". (He actually used "will" instead of "shall"
but that is another matter.) That was a completely normal way for my
boss (and some others) to express himself.
OED:
bring, v.
{dag}2. To convoy, escort, accompany (a person) on his way. Obs.
exc. dial.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Pat Durkin
news:ligvg5d96p7uble8n...@4ax.com...
usage from New Yorkers, including my brother-in-law.)
Richard Chambers
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
news:JWLPm.9164$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
From my hazy recollections of evening classes ten years ago, the Spanish do
this in a different way. They appear to choose "bring" or "take" from the
point of view of the person they are talking to, not from their own point of
view. Thus, if (in English) "I take it to you", then the same concept in
Spanish is "I bring it to you". From the point of view of the person I am
speaking to, that is exactly what I am doing.
I sometimes do exactly the same in English:-
"I will meet you tomorrow at Wuthering Heights for a picnic. I shall bring a
cold roast chicken with me. Would you like to bring some bread rolls and a
bottle of wine?"
I have never been misunderstood, even though this is the Spanish-type
construction, choosing bring/take from the point of view of the person I am
talking to. Not only that, but doing it from her point of view when,
tomorrow, she will be at a different location, i.e. at the picnic spot. The
brain is a fantastic computer to work that one out.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
aquachimp
I think you've already found the answer;
My own... spoon, fork, chopsticks.
Frank ess
Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:21:47 -0800 (PST), lcy <lcyi...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
> I'm wondering how that protects the environment?
>
> Does it mean you never wash them, and so save water?
Oh, ick.
My wife talks of the eco-tableware used in her early
high-in-the-Sierra-Madre life: meat was placed directly on the coals
of a fire; when cooked, a piece would be picked up using two corn
tortillas, one in each hand; the meat torn by pulling, and consumed
along with the tortillas, spreading grease all over hands and face.
Finished the meat, another tortilla would be used as napkin, cleaning
the hands and face before being consumed.
No knives (well, maybe /one/), forks, spoons, napkins - disposable or
otherwise. Eco-friendly to a fault.
--
Frank ess
Chuck Riggs
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:49:30 +1100, the renowned Peter Moylan
><gro.nalyomp@retep> wrote:
>
>>lcy wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>
>>Cutlery.
>
>I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
Does the diner who brings both Western-style utensils and chopsticks
have anything in common with he who wears both a belt and braces?
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
aquachimp
wrote:
And following from that, since you bring your own (utensils/
chopsticks) could call yourself an eco-diner.
You don't have to stick to finding a label for what you eat with.
Pat Durkin
news:e2446e0a-ca5e-4f3b...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 27, 5:53 pm, aquachimp <aquach...@aquachimp.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2:21 am, lcy <lcyiu3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> > I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
> > eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
> > wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
> > chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
> I think you've already found the answer;
>
> My own... spoon, fork, chopsticks.
aquachimp: And following from that, since you bring your own
(utensils/
chopsticks) could call yourself an eco-diner.
You don't have to stick to finding a label for what you eat with.
Pat:
And if you say you are bringing your own, you don't need to have them
assume you are making a political statement. You are just promising
not to embarrass them or the waiters or the other diners who might
think you don't trust that the silverware is dirty.
Might as well bring your own glass, cup, plate. It makes a
"statement". Or, as the new buzzwords go, you are creating "a
teachable moment".
John Varela
<stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
> I'm guessing the original poster may have been writing from China,
> where this is a quite current debate, particularly among university
> students.
That seems likely. It would explain the chopsticks, but not the
fork and the omission of a knife.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
aquachimp
> "aquachimp" <aquach...@aquachimp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:e2446e0a-ca5e-4f3b...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 27, 5:53 pm, aquachimp <aquach...@aquachimp.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27, 2:21 am, lcy <lcyiu3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Dear all,
> > > I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
> > > eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
> > > wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
> > > chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>
> > I think you've already found the answer;
>
> > My own... spoon, fork, chopsticks.
>
> aquachimp: And following from that, since you bring your own
> (utensils/
> chopsticks) could call yourself an eco-diner.
> You don't have to stick to finding a label for what you eat with.
>
> Pat:
> And if you say you are bringing your own, you don't need to have them
> assume you are making a political statement.
You've lost me there. Who is "them"?
>You are just promising
> not to embarrass them
them" too?
>or the waiters or the other diners who might
> think you don't trust that the silverware is dirty.
Trust that the silverware is clean surely?
> Might as well bring your own glass, cup, plate. It makes a
> "statement".
The T-shirt idea might be more effective, along with being easier.
> Or, as the new buzzwords go, you are creating "a
> teachable moment".Is there such a word as learnable?
John Varela
wrote:
The invitation is presumably issued from the location to which the
bottle will be brought. Is that correct BrE?
In AmE I have never made that fine distinction about "bring". If
it's with me or to be with me, then I'm bringing it (along),
regardless of the direction of travel.
John Varela
In AmE I would use "take" there. Having always worked in secure
facilities, there would probably be a requirement for the visitor to
be escorted, so it wouldn't be a question, it would be a statement:
"I'll take you to X now," although in truth it more likely would be
"I'll have my secretary escort you..." unless the visitor was a VIP.
James Hogg
My usage would agree with yours there.
--
James
the Omrud
I would rebel and take one.
--
David
the Omrud
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:03:48 UTC, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> annily wrote:
>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>> lcy wrote:
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>>>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>>>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>>>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>>> obAUE:
>>>>
>>>> That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring"
>>>> something unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE has
>>>> to have "take" there.
>>>>
>>> Yes, good point. I would always use "take" in that context too.
>> But if the invitation says "Bring a bottle" I usually obey and bring one.
>
> The invitation is presumably issued from the location to which the
> bottle will be brought. Is that correct BrE?
I can't accept "to which the bottle will be brought". It has to be "taken".
> In AmE I have never made that fine distinction about "bring". If
> it's with me or to be with me, then I'm bringing it (along),
> regardless of the direction of travel.
Indeed. Our differences shall keep us sane.
--
David
R H Draney
>
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:00:15 UTC, tsuidf
><stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing the original poster may have been writing from China,
>> where this is a quite current debate, particularly among university
>> students.
>
>That seems likely. It would explain the chopsticks, but not the
>fork and the omission of a knife.
The fork may be a simple extension of the principle to cover eating at a
Western-style restaurant....
Bringing one's own knife to dine might expose one to charges of carrying a
concealed weapon....r
Skitt
> John Varela filted:
>> tsuidf wrote:
>>> I'm guessing the original poster may have been writing from China,
>>> where this is a quite current debate, particularly among university
>>> students.
>>
>> That seems likely. It would explain the chopsticks, but not the
>> fork and the omission of a knife.
>
> The fork may be a simple extension of the principle to cover eating
> at a Western-style restaurant....
>
> Bringing one's own knife to dine might expose one to charges of
> carrying a concealed weapon....r
I don't think they use knives there. The edges of spoons have to do. They
do get bent, though. I've been exposed to the lack of knives in the
Philippines and here in the USA, at Filipino parties. I used to kid the
Filipinos that they, apparently, can't be trusted with sharp objects.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Skitt
> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> lcy wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
>>>> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
>>>> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
>>>> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>>
>>> Cutlery.
>>
>> I would say "eating utensils". Chopsticks don't count as cutlery.
>
> Does the diner who brings both Western-style utensils and chopsticks
> have anything in common with he who wears both a belt and braces?
Oy!
--
Skitt (AmE)
James Silverton
> Oy!
Have you seen a really expert Chinese cook cutting cooking meats with
the large chopsticks that they use? Those might count as cutlery even if
made of wood.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Mike Lyle
In Ireland, one brings the dog for a walk. I wonder if, in the same
sort of way, our usage may sometimes be a little flexible. Yes, David's
rule is right; but if I'm _thinking_ of myself in the office though
actually at home I think I might well use "bring": does that seem
likely? And of course the "bring a bottle" style would apply if I were
talking to somebody on the telephone from my home: "Can you bring some
plant food to the office, please?"
--
Mike.
Bill McCray
>
> From my hazy recollections of evening classes ten years ago, the Spanish do
> this in a different way. They appear to choose "bring" or "take" from the
> point of view of the person they are talking to, not from their own point of
> view. Thus, if (in English) "I take it to you", then the same concept in
> Spanish is "I bring it to you". From the point of view of the person I am
> speaking to, that is exactly what I am doing.
>
> I sometimes do exactly the same in English:-
> "I will meet you tomorrow at Wuthering Heights for a picnic. I shall bring a
> cold roast chicken with me. Would you like to bring some bread rolls and a
> bottle of wine?"
> I have never been misunderstood, even though this is the Spanish-type
> construction, choosing bring/take from the point of view of the person I am
> talking to. Not only that, but doing it from her point of view when,
> tomorrow, she will be at a different location, i.e. at the picnic spot. The
> brain is a fantastic computer to work that one out.
There is not reason that anyone would be bothered by that usage. It is
perfectly normal English, at least the way I hear it used around here.
"Bringing" is involved when something or someone is accompanying the
speaker or the listener when the listener and speaker are coming
together. I can bring something to you, you can bring something to me,
and either is us can bring something to a place where we will both be.
If the movement does not involve us coming together, the word must be
"take".
When someone says something like "I'm bringing a book back to the
library" and the listener not going to be at the library, it sounds
horribly wrong. Yet I hear it on TV often, so I assume it's common
usage in either New York and/or California (because the scriptwriters
tend to be in those two places).
Would you really say "I will take the book to you"? I can't imagine
saying that in normal English. It would have to be "I will bring the
book to you." But I would "take the book" to anyone else but you.
Bill in Kentucky
Bill McCray
> Richard Chambers wrote:
>>
>> From my hazy recollections of evening classes ten years ago, the
>> Spanish do this in a different way. They appear to choose "bring" or
>> "take" from the point of view of the person they are talking to, not
>> from their own point of view. Thus, if (in English) "I take it to
>> you", then the same concept in Spanish is "I bring it to you". From
>> the point of view of the person I am speaking to, that is exactly what
>> I am doing.
>>
>> I sometimes do exactly the same in English:-
>> "I will meet you tomorrow at Wuthering Heights for a picnic. I shall
>> bring a cold roast chicken with me. Would you like to bring some bread
>> rolls and a bottle of wine?"
>> I have never been misunderstood, even though this is the Spanish-type
>> construction, choosing bring/take from the point of view of the person
>> I am talking to. Not only that, but doing it from her point of view
>> when, tomorrow, she will be at a different location, i.e. at the
>> picnic spot. The brain is a fantastic computer to work that one out.
>
> There is not reason that anyone would be bothered by that usage. It is
> perfectly normal English, at least the way I hear it used around here.
"... no reason ..." not "... not reason ...". Note to self: Don't add
something after proofreading without reproofreading.
James Hogg
> Bill McCray wrote:
>> There is not reason that anyone would be bothered by that usage. It
>> is perfectly normal English, at least the way I hear it used around here.
>
> "... no reason ..." not "... not reason ...". Note to self: Don't add
> something after proofreading without reproofreading.
Otherwise you might have to do some reproof-reading.
--
James
Steve Hayes
Did she consider the carbon footprint of the fire? <GDR>
Pat Durkin
news:hepaqo$m3t$1...@news.albasani.net...
Left it for you to catch!
Pat Durkin
them" too?
Wassa matta you? "Them" and "They" is "People", or anyone who is not
you and I. The anonymous judges who make life miserable, all the
while they think they are improving the world.
>or the waiters or the other diners who might
> think you don't trust that the silverware is dirty.
Trust that the silverware is clean surely?
Surely.
> Might as well bring your own glass, cup, plate. It makes a
> "statement".
The T-shirt idea might be more effective, along with being easier.
> Or, as the new buzzwords go, you are creating "a
> teachable moment".
Is there such a word as learnable?
Yes. Or "unlearnable".
Richard Chambers
> James Hogg wrote
>> But if the invitation says "Bring a bottle" I usually obey and bring one.
>
> The invitation is presumably issued from the location to which the
> bottle will be brought. Is that correct BrE?
>
> In AmE I have never made that fine distinction about "bring". If
> it's with me or to be with me, then I'm bringing it (along),
> regardless of the direction of travel.
In BrE, if I were talking to you in person, I would:-
1. Bring a bottle to your party.
2. Take a bottle to Laura's party
3. Take a bottle to London
4. Ask you to bring a bottle to my party
In other situations, I would:-
5. Respond positively to my wife's reminder to take a bottle to your
party.
6. Understand her when she asks "Do we have to bring a bottle?"
7. Understand her when she asks "Do we have to take a bottle?"
Example 1 is a case where I have transposed "bring" and "take", by
expressing the action from the point of view of the person I am speaking to,
rather than from my own point of view. I am not quite sure what my wife is
doing in example 6 but it seems, to me, to be a satisfactory way (neither
better nor worse than example 7) of expressing the action in BrE.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
LFS
> John Varela wrote
>
>> James Hogg wrote
>
>>> But if the invitation says "Bring a bottle" I usually obey and bring one.
>> The invitation is presumably issued from the location to which the
>> bottle will be brought. Is that correct BrE?
>>
>> In AmE I have never made that fine distinction about "bring". If
>> it's with me or to be with me, then I'm bringing it (along),
>> regardless of the direction of travel.
>
> In BrE, if I were talking to you in person, I would:-
> 1. Bring a bottle to your party.
> 2. Take a bottle to Laura's party
Ooh, I've always wanted to be given a surprise party, have you let the
cat out of the bag?
[..]
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Richard Chambers
> In BrE, if I were talking to you in person, I would:-
> 1. Bring a bottle to your party.
> 2. Take a bottle to Laura's party
> 3. Take a bottle to London
> 4. Ask you to bring a bottle to my party
> In other situations, I would:-
> 5. Respond positively to my wife's reminder to take a bottle to your
> party.
> 6. Understand her when she asks "Do we have to bring a bottle?"
> 7. Understand her when she asks "Do we have to take a bottle?"
>
> Example 1 is a case where I have transposed "bring" and "take", by
> expressing the action from the point of view of the person I am speaking
> to, rather than from my own point of view. I am not quite sure what my
> wife is doing in example 6 but it seems, to me, to be a satisfactory way
> (neither better nor worse than example 7) of expressing the action in BrE.
--------------------
Having posted the above, further thought has made me think that the
transposition demonstrated in example 1 (from the point of view of the
speaker to that of the listener) is not the only type of transposition that
can take place. Another type of transposition, in time, can also be
observed.
Suppose that John Varela and I are both in London. Suppose that:-
My party is on 7 December, in Leeds
Laura's party is on 14 December, in Oxford
John's party is on 21 December, in eastern USA (or wherever he lives).
Speaking to John in London, in BrE, I might:-
8. Ask him to bring a bottle to my party.
9. Ask him to take a bottle to Laura's party.
10. Assure him that I will bring a bottle to his party.
There is nothing extraordinary about example 9, which uses the standard
meaning of "take".
Example 8 is interesting, because it uses the standard definition of
"bring", but allows for a time-warp so that, in several days time, the
destination is no longer London, but my new location in Leeds.
Example 10 uses a transposition of point of view (from that of the speaker
to that of the listener, "take" transposing to become "bring")
simultaneously with a time-warp. I am not going to "bring" the bottle to
John's current location in London as I speak to him, but to where he will be
located on 21 December. Two transpositions for the price of one.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
James Hogg
> Two transpositions for the price of one.
Have you forgotten that this is Buy Nothing Day?
--
James
Bill McCray
So true.
Bill in Kentucky
Chuck Riggs
Are only two AUE members lacking a sense of humour or are there more?
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Pat Durkin
news:bbi2h5hkt7916e6ls...@4ax.com...
Well, Chuck. There's you, for one.
James Hogg
Let he who is without sin among you hurl the first "Oy!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_He_Who_Is_Without_Sin...
--
James
Pat Durkin
news:herq8g$71f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Well, then. Let him. Oy'll be blest if I care.
My groundhog might complain, though.
mm
wrote:
>John Varela filted:
>>
>>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:00:15 UTC, tsuidf
>><stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing the original poster may have been writing from China,
>>> where this is a quite current debate, particularly among university
>>> students.
>>
>>That seems likely. It would explain the chopsticks, but not the
>>fork and the omission of a knife.
>
>The fork may be a simple extension of the principle to cover eating at a
>Western-style restaurant....
>
>Bringing one's own knife to dine might expose one to charges of carrying a
>concealed weapon....r
I know someone who was charged with a concealed spork.
:)
But seriously, I know someone who was charged with "carrying a
concealed weapon" because he had a machete in a closed latched
suitcase in the backseat of his car, in the middle of the night on the
highway when no one was around, let alone awake. Don't go to Queen
Anne's County Maryland.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
Richard Chambers
I do this sort of thing, wherever I can within the subject matter of the
thread, to unobtrusively check up on you and satisfy myself that you are
reading all my posts. A failure to reply would have been taken as a "No".
Take care, you are being discreetly monitored from a secret office in Leeds.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
LFS
My ontological security depends, in part, on finding my name in posts so
I occasionally search for it via Ggle Gps but I don't reply to them all.
And I don't reply to everything I read. So this may invalidate the
assumptions on which your research is based.
Chuck Riggs
<dur...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
You must have missed the joke too, Smart Alec.
Richard Chambers
I've lost count now. Does this make it two, three or four?
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
John Varela
wrote:
> But seriously, I know someone who was charged with "carrying a
> concealed weapon" because he had a machete in a closed latched
> suitcase in the backseat of his car, in the middle of the night on the
> highway when no one was around, let alone awake. Don't go to Queen
> Anne's County Maryland.
Some 30 years ago I had a brief layover in Guatemala City. At that
time the terminal was full of small stands, mostly staffed by
Indians, selling souvenirs. I bought a machete in a fancy leather
scabbard worked to say "Guatemala" and was, unthinkingly, casually
walking back to the airplane carrying my souvenir machete when
Security stopped me...
They were very courteous, checked my machete, and I retrieved it in
Mexico City. I still have it; in fact it's about ten feet from
where I'm sitting now. Can you imagine people selling machetes in
an airport terminal today? And what would happen to someone who
tried to carry one on board?
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Maria Conlon
> Dear all,
> I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with me when
> eating out for the reason of environmental protection. But I am
> wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon, fork and
> chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
Just today, I came across a sig quote which may qualify for this thread:
"I thought about how mothers feed their babies with tiny little spoons
and forks, so I wondered what do Chinese mothers use. Toothpicks?" (No
attribution that I know of.)
Btw: No offense meant; I apologize if any is taken.
--
Maria Conlon
Peter Moylan
It took us all a while to understand the assumptions behind Icy's
posting. The story, as I now understand it, is that Icy's own chopsticks
are washable. If he were eating out, his hosts would offer him
disposable wooden chopsticks, which are less ecologically desirable. It
is not yet clear to me whether this happens everywhere, or only with
friends who don't care about polluting the environment. Icy, if you are
still with us, it would be of interest to know the background. Or
perhaps I should ask Stephanie, who appears to know the background and
has the virtue of not being one of those people who ask a question and
then disappear. Are disposable chopsticks really so common? If so, what
is the objection to chopsticks that can be washed? My own chopsticks are
recycled over and over again, and I haven't noticed any disadvantages.
Now that I think of it, I don't have any chopsticks at present. I'd
better buy some. All of my cutlery went to my ex-wife, who doesn't know
how to use chopsticks but who has all the characteristics of a dog in a
manger. Still, I can remember what I used to have. Some looked like
ivory but were probably plastic. Others were painted wood. All had a
long life. Indeed, I had those chopsticks for a good thirty years;
longer than I had a wife. They were durable. They could be washed over
and over again, without any sign or deterioration. Given those features,
why would anyone possibly want to use disposable chopsticks? The
disposable ones are cheaper, I know, but the difference in price would
have been wiped out after half a dozen uses. And they certainly didn't
make the food taste better. When dining at the Chinese equivalent of
McDonald's, I've been put off by the unattractive disposable chopsticks.
Getting back to Maria's point: toothpicks, I suppose, would be directly
comparable to disposable chopsticks. They would be thrown away after one
use. Is that the right way to feed babies? My best guess, based on total
ignorance, is that chopstick-using cultures would instead use the same
sort of chopsticks as are used by adults. Although I suspect that the
spoon would play a much larger role in the feeding of young children.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Pat Durkin
news:dxizd0mOwXzR-pn2-WLfIMODrCdLW@localhost...
Forty years ago, July, '69, as I entered a sparkling new terminal from
the plane (we are speaking of air travel, right?) in Guatemala City, I
nearly passed out with shock, for the circular mezzanine was lined
with soldiers in some awful green uniforms, guns at the ready, who
were looking down at all of us below. I don't know if that happened
with all arriving flights. There were paramilitary uniforms of
various colors at each intersection in the downtown area as we drove
through the city. Strangely, I didn't notice these "traffic police" a
week later, as we left, and wasn't aware of them at the airport,
either.
Come to think of it, though, on trips to Italy and Spain during the 5
years around that time, I seemed to notice many more policemen in
those countries than in the US. I wonder, was my awareness more
stimulated _because_ I was in a foreign land, or (aside from
Guatemala) or do uniforms actually make individuals less perceivable
when one is going about one's daily activities?
LFS
>
> Forty years ago, July, '69, as I entered a sparkling new terminal from
> the plane (we are speaking of air travel, right?) in Guatemala City, I
> nearly passed out with shock, for the circular mezzanine was lined
> with soldiers in some awful green uniforms, guns at the ready, who
> were looking down at all of us below. I don't know if that happened
> with all arriving flights. There were paramilitary uniforms of
> various colors at each intersection in the downtown area as we drove
> through the city. Strangely, I didn't notice these "traffic police" a
> week later, as we left, and wasn't aware of them at the airport,
> either.
>
> Come to think of it, though, on trips to Italy and Spain during the 5
> years around that time, I seemed to notice many more policemen in
> those countries than in the US. I wonder, was my awareness more
> stimulated _because_ I was in a foreign land, or (aside from
> Guatemala) or do uniforms actually make individuals less perceivable
> when one is going about one's daily activities?
>
>
I remember back in the 1960s, on my earliest visits to countries in
continental Europe, being very conscious that the police were armed.
There did seem to be more of them about than at home and I think the
noticeable weaponry was what made me more aware of their presence. In
those days, it was very unusual indeed to see anyone armed on the
streets of the UK.
I'm not sure what difference uniforms make. These days everyone seems to
wear dayglo jackets over everything and the number of police officers on
the streets is very limited.
Robin Bignall
wrote:
Late in 1977, after having had a wood-burning grate installed in our
new house in France* I happened to see an antique shop as I was
passing through Eton on a business trip to England. I bought a set of
brass fire irons on a stand, and since I had carry-on luggage only,
carried them through wrapped in brown paper. When asked, I replied
"fire irons", upon which two large blokes grabbed me under the armpits
and lifted me off the ground, while two more gingerly delved into the
package.
I hate to think what would happen today in that situation.
* the house was built with the bottom of the chimney leading to a
square hole in the wall, covered with plasterboard. One then had a
choice of having a chimney breast and wood or solid fuel grate
installed to one's taste.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
R H Draney
>
>Late in 1977, after having had a wood-burning grate installed in our
>new house in France* I happened to see an antique shop as I was
>passing through Eton on a business trip to England. I bought a set of
>brass fire irons on a stand, and since I had carry-on luggage only,
>carried them through wrapped in brown paper. When asked, I replied
>"fire irons", upon which two large blokes grabbed me under the armpits
>and lifted me off the ground, while two more gingerly delved into the
>package.
>
>I hate to think what would happen today in that situation.
And then there was the time we all went to Juarez, and my grandmother decided to
add to her collection of glazed Mexican flowerpots...when asked if she had
bought anything while in Mexico, she sweetly smiled and said "just a little
pot"....
Fortunately for all of us, the border guard was used to dealing with addled
little old ladies....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Mike Barnes
>Robin Bignall filted:
>>
>>Late in 1977, after having had a wood-burning grate installed in our
>>new house in France* I happened to see an antique shop as I was
>>passing through Eton on a business trip to England. I bought a set of
>>brass fire irons on a stand, and since I had carry-on luggage only,
>>carried them through wrapped in brown paper. When asked, I replied
>>"fire irons", upon which two large blokes grabbed me under the armpits
>>and lifted me off the ground, while two more gingerly delved into the
>>package.
>>
>>I hate to think what would happen today in that situation.
>
>And then there was the time we all went to Juarez, and my grandmother
>decided to
>add to her collection of glazed Mexican flowerpots...when asked if she had
>bought anything while in Mexico, she sweetly smiled and said "just a little
>pot"....
Last year, I was checking in for a long-haul flight.
"Has anyone given you anything to take on board?"
"Yes"
[she pauses]
"I said HAS ANYONE GIVEN YOU ANYTHING TO TAKE ON BOARD?"
"Yes"
[she pauses again, scratches head]
"Can I see it?"
[I gesture to a cardboard box about a foot cubed]
"What's in it?"
"I'm not sure. I'm told it's a mushroom-growing kit"
[another pause]
"OK, then"
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Chuck Riggs
Has it been said lately? Usenet conversations are awkward and easily
misunderstood.
Robin Bignall
I didn't think it was so easy to import portable nuclear weapons.
R H Draney
They're brought in by bakeries, in boxes marked "yellow cake"....r
mm
I was in Guatamala City about 18 months after you were, but I never
got to see the airport. I was there for 7 weeks, and spent about a
week elsewhere in Guatamala, plus one night lying in a ditch with a
broken leg, in the same country. (The leg accounts for 6 of the weeks
in Guatamala City. The ditch was dry, but it had a stone bottom.
Hence the broken leg.)
>nearly passed out with shock, for the circular mezzanine was lined
>with soldiers in some awful green uniforms, guns at the ready, who
>were looking down at all of us below. I don't know if that happened
>with all arriving flights. There were paramilitary uniforms of
>various colors at each intersection in the downtown area as we drove
>through the city. Strangely, I didn't notice these "traffic police" a
>week later, as we left, and wasn't aware of them at the airport,
>either.
The level of "security" had definitely dropped by the time I got
there. The guards at the border with Mexico didn't seem more numerous
than one would expect (and prior to that I'd only entered Canada and
Mexico), and the curfew was still in effect, but at 1 AM, not at 11 or
at 9 PM as it had been at different stages earlier. So when I was
waiting for a bus at 11:30PM (It didnt' occur to me that the buses
might not run all night.) a tiny car pulled up, a man in uniform
jumped out from the passenger seat and questioned me a little, then
jumped back in the car away and pulled away like in a Benny Hill skit.
Five seconds later another car pulled up, a man in a uniform popped
out and motioned for me to get in the car. I sat between the driver
and him, hoping they wouldn't notice I was wearing a wig. The
Guatamalan police didn't like wigs because the communist bank robbers
wore them. Especially I hoped they didn't notice at the police
station or prison or wherever they were taking me.
He zoomed through the night like in a Kafka movie** and after 5 or 10
minutes pulled quickly to a stop, jumped out, and motioned for me to
get out. I did, he jumped back in and the car pulled away quickly like
in a Kafka novel. I had no idea where I was but I looked around at
street numbers and street signs and realized I was a block from the
street my hotel was on. I remembered that was one of the questions
the first cop had asked me, Where am I staying?
**Joey Kafka, the great movie director...?? Make that a Kafka novel.
My hotel at 9th Avenue and about 18th St. or 13th. Hotel Gran Central
iirc, was only a block from the Guatamalan Supreme Court. The
chauffer driven limousine(s?) were parked in front, black 4-door
Chevrolets, with rear-view mirrors in both the front and back seat.
Someone explained to me that it was so the SCourt judge could check
himself, and not rely only on the driver, whether his car was being
followed.
The news carried a story when the toy store reopened at 9th Avenue and
21st St. Had it been a US paper, the story or picture caption would
have said that it was blown up killing 13 by communist guerrillas, but
since it was Guatamala, the caption just said it was reopening. (I met
the only survivor of the bombing. The only person there but not
killed. She was in fine condition when I met her.)
You were there when more of this stuff was happening. I was there
when it had tapered off, and even what I describe iess force on
display than there had been.
>Come to think of it, though, on trips to Italy and Spain during the 5
>years around that time, I seemed to notice many more policemen in
>those countries than in the US. I wonder, was my awareness more
>stimulated _because_ I was in a foreign land, or (aside from
>Guatemala) or do uniforms actually make individuals less perceivable
>when one is going about one's daily activities?
>
--
mm
<mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>
>Last year, I was checking in for a long-haul flight.
>
>"Has anyone given you anything to take on board?"
>"Yes"
> [she pauses]
>"I said HAS ANYONE GIVEN YOU ANYTHING TO TAKE ON BOARD?"
>"Yes"
> [she pauses again, scratches head]
>"Can I see it?"
> [I gesture to a cardboard box about a foot cubed]
>"What's in it?"
>"I'm not sure. I'm told it's a mushroom-growing kit"
> [another pause]
>"OK, then"
I'm glad she asked proper questions. I'll bet they don't all do that.
I think Heathkit bombs are about a foot cubed.
>
>--
>Mike Barnes
>Cheshire, England
--
Richard Bollard
wrote:
>Robin Bignall filted:
>>
>>Late in 1977, after having had a wood-burning grate installed in our
>>new house in France* I happened to see an antique shop as I was
>>passing through Eton on a business trip to England. I bought a set of
>>brass fire irons on a stand, and since I had carry-on luggage only,
>>carried them through wrapped in brown paper. When asked, I replied
>>"fire irons", upon which two large blokes grabbed me under the armpits
>>and lifted me off the ground, while two more gingerly delved into the
>>package.
>>
>>I hate to think what would happen today in that situation.
>
>And then there was the time we all went to Juarez, and my grandmother decided to
>add to her collection of glazed Mexican flowerpots...when asked if she had
>bought anything while in Mexico, she sweetly smiled and said "just a little
>pot"....
>
>Fortunately for all of us, the border guard was used to dealing with addled
>little old ladies....r
Many years ago I placed my briefcase to be X-rayed. The examiner was
greatly puzzled by something on the display and kept re-checking it.
Eventually, and with palpable relief, he announced that it was just a
set of darts and let me proceed.
I then remembered that I had a spare set of arrows in the case.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
R H Draney
>
>Many years ago I placed my briefcase to be X-rayed. The examiner was
>greatly puzzled by something on the display and kept re-checking it.
>Eventually, and with palpable relief, he announced that it was just a
>set of darts and let me proceed.
>
>I then remembered that I had a spare set of arrows in the case.
I once passed through security just ahead of some dimwit who had a spray-paint
nozzle in his case...the shadow looked, from all angles, exactly like a small
pistol...I don't know if he ever made his flight....
(And then there was the woman who refused to step through the metal detector
because she was pregnant)....r
Jerry Friedman
> Robin Bignall filted:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:36:47 +0000, Mike Barnes
> ><mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>
> >>"Has anyone given you anything to take on board?"
> >>"Yes"
> >> [she pauses]
> >>"I said HAS ANYONE GIVEN YOU ANYTHING TO TAKE ON BOARD?"
> >>"Yes"
> >> [she pauses again, scratches head]
> >>"Can I see it?"
> >> [I gesture to a cardboard box about a foot cubed]
> >>"What's in it?"
> >>"I'm not sure. I'm told it's a mushroom-growing kit"
> >> [another pause]
> >>"OK, then"
>
> >I didn't think it was so easy to import portable nuclear weapons.
>
> They're brought in by bakeries, in boxes marked "yellow cake"....r
Or by sporting-goods stores, marked "fishin' tackle".
--
Jerry Friedman has eaten salad from an orange Fiestaware bowl.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> James Hogg wrote:
>> annily wrote:
>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>> lcy wrote:
>>>>> Dear all, I always bring my own spoon, fork and chopsticks with
>>>>> me when eating out for the reason of environmental protection.
>>>>> But I am wondering if there is a term to refer to the spoon,
>>>>> fork and chopsticks, such as "eco-spoon"? Thank you very much!
>>>>
>>>> obAUE:
>>>>
>>>> That use of "bring" is not possible in BrE. You can't "bring"
>>>> something unless you are where the object is to be brought. BrE
>>>> has to have "take" there.
>>>
>>> Yes, good point. I would always use "take" in that context too.
>> But if the invitation says "Bring a bottle" I usually obey and
>> bring one.
>
> I would rebel and take one.
My intuitive reading would be that if I bring a bottle, they have one
more, while if I take a bottle, they have one fewer.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is a popular delusion that the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |government wastes vast amounts of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |money through inefficiency and sloth.
|Enormous effort and elaborate
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |planning are required to waste this
(650)857-7572 |much money
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Skitt
You keep talking about a Guatamala. Is that anywhere near Guatemala?
--
Skitt (AmE)
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>My intuitive reading would be that if I bring a bottle, they have one
>more, while if I take a bottle, they have one fewer.
Mine too.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Chuck Riggs
Chuck Riggs
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:16:32 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com>
>wrote:
>
>>My intuitive reading would be that if I bring a bottle, they have one
>>more, while if I take a bottle, they have one fewer.
>
>Mine too.
Whether I bring a bottle to a party or take one, it seems to me that
the result is the same.
John Varela
wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:05:46 +0200, Steve Hayes
> <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:16:32 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>My intuitive reading would be that if I bring a bottle, they have one
> >>more, while if I take a bottle, they have one fewer.
> >
> >Mine too.
>
> Whether I bring a bottle to a party or take one, it seems to me that
> the result is the same.
As long as you say "to" or the context is clear. Otherwise there is
a difference between "I'll bring a bottle" and "I'll take a bottle".
Robin Bignall
>Richard Bollard filted:
>>
>>Many years ago I placed my briefcase to be X-rayed. The examiner was
>>greatly puzzled by something on the display and kept re-checking it.
>>Eventually, and with palpable relief, he announced that it was just a
>>set of darts and let me proceed.
>>
>>I then remembered that I had a spare set of arrows in the case.
>
>I once passed through security just ahead of some dimwit who had a spray-paint
>nozzle in his case...the shadow looked, from all angles, exactly like a small
>pistol...I don't know if he ever made his flight....
>
Something similar happened to me on exit from the States one time. I
saw the X-ray and there was clearly an automatic pistol in my carry-on
bag. They searched the bag but nothing was found. The "barrel" was a
metal tube of dental bleach tablets, the "butt" a calculator, and
something wiry had formed a "trigger guard" just by the way they had
moved when the bag was placed under the machine.
the Omrud
Enjoying the bunkum which is "Flashforward" though I am, the ease with
which FBI agents seem to be able to carry their loaded guns wherever
they go is concerning me.
A few weeks ago, three of them had flown to a meeting in Congress or one
of those other big buildings in Washington. As they went back to their
car, they were set upon by armed assassins, but they drew their weapons
and fired back. Are FBI agents allowed to take their guns on planes?
In this week's episode, two of them went to Hong Kong without permission
(and hence without local support) with their guns. We know it was their
own guns because a person they met there knew the serial number of one
of the guns. They got into a pointy-gun standoff with some armed local
police (let's remember that this is now China) and later one of them was
sacked over the phone so he handed his gun to his colleague *in the
airport* in full view of everybody. Do FBI agents expect to be able to
wander into China carrying weapons?
I can't wait for the episode which will feature London (we know this
because part of the story is that they've seen the future). Will they
wave their guns around in Heathrow?
--
David
tony cooper
My daughter's father-in-law is a retired FBI Special Agent. (All FBI
agents are "Special Agents") I don't know what he did in the early
part of his career, but he spent several years on some sort of flying
squad that handled kidnappings. Then, he must have pissed off a
supervisor because he ended up in Florida chasing down counterfeit
videotapes. He's not particularly forthcoming about his experiences.
I'd ask him about the gun thing, but I fear he might explode. He
can't stand any movie or television show that includes an FBI agent as
a character. If he's within earshot of a television show about the
FBI he starts speaking in some tongue in common with sailors and
stevedores.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Enjoying the bunkum which is "Flashforward" though I am, the ease with
> which FBI agents seem to be able to carry their loaded guns wherever
> they go is concerning me.
>
> A few weeks ago, three of them had flown to a meeting in Congress or
> one of those other big buildings in Washington. As they went back to
> their car, they were set upon by armed assassins, but they drew their
> weapons and fired back. Are FBI agents allowed to take their guns on
> planes?
Yes, but. There are a whole bunch of rules, which apply to all law
enforcement officers, spelled out in 49 CFR 1544.219
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/pdf/49cfr1544.219.pdf
Most of clause (1) would trivially apply to an FBI special agent, and
I'd presume that they all are required to take the required "Law
Enforcement Officers Flying Armed" training program. Claus (2) covers
the reason for flying armed, and they'd presumabl fall under "(iii) On
official travel required to report to another location, armed and
prepared for duty". But (clause 3), they have to notify the airline
that they are planning to fly armed at least an hour before the flight
(except in an emergency) and identify themselves as law-enforcement
operators. (As federal agents, they don't need to present an
authorizing letter from their agency.) The airline then has to make
sure that the identity of the armed person "is known to the
appropriate personnel who are responsible for security during the
boarding of the aircract" and notify the flight crew of the location
of the armed passenger. (They're not allowed to close the doors until
the notification is complete.) And the airline has to forward the
information to the flight crew of every connecting flight they'll be
on.
Also interesting is that if you're flying armed, you're not allowed to
consume alcohol or have done so within 8 hours prior to boarding. And
you have to keep the weapon within reach (on your person if in
uniform, concealed otherwise), and you're specifically prohibited from
putting it in an overhead storage bin.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |I value writers such as Fiske.
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |They serve as valuable object
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |lessons by showing that the most
|punctilious compliance with the
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |rules of usage has so little to do
(650)857-7572 |with either writing or thinking
|well.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --Richard Hershberger
the Omrud
> Most of clause (1) would trivially apply to an FBI special agent, and
> I'd presume that they all are required to take the required "Law
> Enforcement Officers Flying Armed" training program. Claus (2) covers
> the reason for flying armed, and they'd presumabl fall under "(iii) On
> official travel required to report to another location, armed and
> prepared for duty". But (clause 3), they have to notify the airline
> that they are planning to fly armed at least an hour before the flight
> (except in an emergency) and identify themselves as law-enforcement
> operators. (As federal agents, they don't need to present an
> authorizing letter from their agency.) The airline then has to make
> sure that the identity of the armed person "is known to the
> appropriate personnel who are responsible for security during the
> boarding of the aircract" and notify the flight crew of the location
> of the armed passenger. (They're not allowed to close the doors until
> the notification is complete.) And the airline has to forward the
> information to the flight crew of every connecting flight they'll be
> on.
...
Interesting, thanks. I don't suppose there are any actual rules about
off-duty FBI agents and China.
--
David
Chuck Riggs
Suppose again for at least some of them, depending on what work the
agent is engaged in. There are also more travel restrictions on many
military and other government employees than there are on ordinary
American citizens.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:16:25 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
Yes, that little "to" can be critical.