> On 01/11/12 12:05, Guy Barry wrote:
> > I may be wrong, but wasn't "programme" the original BrE spelling in
> > the computing sense? I thought "program" had come about because of
> > American influence.
> Yes. My first serious computer programming was done in Atlas
> Autocode, which used "programme" [though underlined] as one of its
> reserved words. By then, "program" was accepted as a variant spelling,
> but "-mme" was preferred. But the American spelling soon took over,
> and in fact, as has been suggested, adds a useful distinction.
> I don't know whether there are any other AmE influences in
> UK programming languages of the period. Nowadays, words such as
> "color" have crept into language libraries, but at least it's then
> easy for BrE programmers to provide their own versions with the
> "correct" spelling; not so easy* with reserved words.
> * Though, many years ago, we had a friend who went to France on
> vacation, came back, and wouldn't stop talking about how much he
> liked the country, the people and the language. So we hacked his
> compiler to make all the reserved words French. He was less than
> chuffed. But at least he stopped talking.
I encountered COBOL in France in 1969 that had all the keywords in
French. I wasn't called upon to write in it I am glad to say, I just
saw it in passing.
-- Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
>> > "It is also clear that the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the
>> > last century,
> A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts.
> I copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu"
> before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in
> Google Groups the character was missing, so it appeared to say "the mass
> of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the last century" - which would be
> pretty serious!
>> Liquids evaporate by molecules gaining enough energy to escape from
>> the liquid. It seems to me that it would be quite possible for
>> molecules to escape from solids, too, although the rate of escape
>> would be much, much lower than for liquids, given that the molecules
>> are much more strongly bound together.
> You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well?
> Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
No, "Sublimation is the process of transformation directly
from the solid phase to the gas phase without passing through
an intermediate liquid phase. Sublimation is an exothermic
phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures
below a substance's triple point in its phase diagram." (WP)
> > > "It is also clear that the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the
> > > last century,
> A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts. I
> copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu"
> before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in Google
> Groups the character was missing, so it appeared to say "the mass of the IPK
> lost perhaps 50 g over the last century" - which would be pretty serious!
> > Liquids evaporate by molecules gaining enough energy to escape from the
> > liquid. It seems to me that it would be quite possible for molecules to
> > escape from solids, too, although the rate of escape would be much, much
> > lower than for liquids, given that the molecules are much more strongly
> > bound together.
> You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well?
> Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
Not necessarily. Freeze-drying, of coffee or corpses, involves having
such a low pressure that water quickly evaporates from ice, leaving a
dry residue.
If you drop an atom bomb, all sorts of things nearby, move from a
solid to a gaseous phase very quickly. Nothing forces them to hang
about in a liquid phase first.
If you've encountered 'dry ice', you'll have seen the condensation of
water in droplets where the cold CO2 has become a gas straight from
the solid lumps of CO2, known as 'dry ice'. You need a much higher
pressure to get liquid CO2.
"Lanarcam" wrote in message news:50928e26$0$14784$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
> Le 01/11/2012 15:26, Guy Barry a crit :
> > You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well?
> > Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
> No, "Sublimation is the process of transformation directly
> from the solid phase to the gas phase without passing through
> an intermediate liquid phase. Sublimation is an exothermic
> phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures
> below a substance's triple point in its phase diagram." (WP)
I'd forgotten about sublimation, but doesn't that only occur at certain temperatures and pressures? Would a lump of metal in a vault in Paris be able to sublime?
>> > You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well?
>> > Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
>> No, "Sublimation is the process of transformation directly
>> from the solid phase to the gas phase without passing through
>> an intermediate liquid phase. Sublimation is an exothermic
>> phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures
>> below a substance's triple point in its phase diagram." (WP)
> I'd forgotten about sublimation, but doesn't that only occur at certain
> temperatures and pressures?
Yes, below the triple point.
> Would a lump of metal in a vault in Paris
> be able to sublime?
>> > "It is also clear that the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the
>> > last century,
> A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts. I
> copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu"
> before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in
> Google Groups the character was missing, so it appeared to say "the mass
> of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the last century" - which would be
> pretty serious!
>> Liquids evaporate by molecules gaining enough energy to escape from
>> the liquid. It seems to me that it would be quite possible for
>> molecules to escape from solids, too, although the rate of escape
>> would be much, much lower than for liquids, given that the molecules
>> are much more strongly bound together.
> You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well?
> Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
I'm sure ice can evaporate, which I think is called sublimation. If you Hang laundry out on a cold day, it will freeze, but will dry, although it probably takes longer. If ice can, other solids should be able to.
In article <IEvks.84442$9H4.34...@fx17.am4>, Guy Barry wrote:
> You're saying it could be possible for solids to "evaporate" as well? > Wouldn't they have to go through a liquid state first?
The process is known as sublimation. Whether a solid substance melts or evaporates when it is heated depends on the nature of the substance and on the pressure. Solid carbon dioxide sublimes at room pressure (which, I suppose, is why they call it /dry/ ice).
92. No provision contained in or made under this or any other Act prevents the use of “gram” or “gramme” as alternative ways of spelling that unit, and the same applies for other units in
the metric system which are compounds of “gram”.
On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:16:13 -0400, Bill McCray <billmcc...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>On 11/1/2012 5:32 AM, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "It is also clear that the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the
>> last century, and possibly significantly more, in comparison to its
>> official copies. The reason for this drift has eluded physicists who
>> have dedicated their careers to the SI unit of mass. No plausible
>> mechanism has been proposed to explain either a steady decrease in the
>> mass of the IPK, or an increase in that of its replicas dispersed
>> throughout the world."
>Liquids evaporate by molecules gaining enough energy to escape from the >liquid. It seems to me that it would be quite possible for molecules to >escape from solids, too, although the rate of escape would be much, much >lower than for liquids, given that the molecules are much more strongly >bound together.
That was called sublimation when I was at school.
-- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
>> > "It is also clear that the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 g over the
>> > last century,
>A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts. I >copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu" >before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in Google >Groups the character was missing, so it appeared to say "the mass of the IPK >lost perhaps 50 g over the last century" - which would be pretty serious!
Well I'm glad to hear that Google groups mangles messages gated in as well as
those gated out, so that those who send messages that are difficult to read
also receive mangled messages. For what it's worth, I found the mu quite
readable, unlike a lot of stuff sent by people on Google groups, with their
long lines etc.
-- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 14:26:52 -0000, "Guy Barry" > <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts. I
> >copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu"
> >before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in > >Google
> >Groups the character was missing, so it appeared to say "the mass of the > >IPK
> >lost perhaps 50 g over the last century" - which would be pretty serious!
> Well I'm glad to hear that Google groups mangles messages gated in as well > as
> those gated out, so that those who send messages that are difficult to > read
> also receive mangled messages. For what it's worth, I found the mu quite
> readable, unlike a lot of stuff sent by people on Google groups, with > their
> long lines etc.
I didn't send it via Google Groups - I sent it via my newsreader. However sometimes I read messages on Google Groups as well as in my reader (I find it useful if I want to get an overview of a thread).
I occasionally post using the old version of Google Groups as well, if I'm having problems with my newsfeed. It doesn't produce any long lines, unlike the new version. I find it quite an acceptable alternative.
> In message <C6adnWJ2j4YRTw3NnZ2dnUVZ_oKdn...@vex.net>
> Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>> Robert Bannister:
>>> There are only a limited number of latitudes where daylight saving is
>>> acceptable.
>> Yes, and that limit is zero.
> I love daylight saving time. It moves an hour from the useless 5am range
> to the useful 8pm range.
For those of us who get up just after 5 and prefer to dine by artificial light, (candles are nice, but not always convenient) I cannot possibly agree. Moreover, if you weren't fast asleep during the best hours of the day, you would be surprised at just how many people are out and about at that time.
However, the whole argument has no economic sense; it is purely a question of who are morning persons and who are night people, and whether night people prefer to operate in daylight or in the dark.
> M-W lists it as an alternative, but we normally pronounce it with
> secondary stress on the short A so it needs the double M.
Yes, it's like "kidnapped". In American spelling one sometimes sees
"kidnaped" and "programer", but the doubled letters are more usual.
-- Mark Brader, Toronto | "It is one thing to praise discipline, and another
m...@vex.net | to submit to it." -- Miguel de Cervantes, 1613
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:05:48 -0000, Guy Barry wrote:
> > (is it "programing" in AmE spelling?).
> M-W lists it as an alternative, but we normally pronounce it with
> secondary stress on the short A so it needs the double M.
What does "secondary stress" mean in this context? As far as I'm concerned secondary stress can only occur in words of three syllables or more, and it can't occur on a syllable next to the one with the primary stress. E.g. "programmatic" has a secondary stress on the first syllable and a primary stress on the third. "Program" and "programming" have no secondary stress.
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnk97j5s.n06.g.kreme@mbp55.local...
> In message <8Ypks.131086$Tf3.53...@fx12.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I used to think that until I had a job that started at 6am.
> What sort of sadistic bastard makes people come in at 6am?
There was no sadistic bastard involved. I ran a newsagent's, which opened at 6.45am. There wouldn't have been much point in opening it at 9am, because you sell most newspapers early in the morning. I did the early shift because it was much easier to cover it myself than try to get the staff to do it. And it meant I finished at 2pm every day, which was great. Still miss the job.
> > Even now I think that British Summer Time goes on for too long
> I think it starts too early. Traditionally (well, meaning 'as it was
> when i was young') it started the first Sunday in April, which seems
> about right. In the US it seemed a little perverse to end it right
> before Halloween.
It starts in the second of week of March in the US now, right? It used to start in mid-March here, but in the interests of European harmonization they moved it to the end of March. I wouldn't mind if they moved it earlier again, but there's little chance of that happening.
> > And I gather that in the US you now go on until the first week in > > November
> When we changed from April to mid March we also added a week at the end,
> I don't know if Halloween was a consideration, but I expect it was.
That's what I read - it was supposed to be dangerous for children to go out trick-or-treating in the dark. Which I thought was the whole point, but then I was brought up in less safety-conscious days.
> Halloween has two completely different components:
> 1) Little kids (0-12 or so) go out door to door collecting candy
> (trick or treating). Since they are little kids, the more
> light hours the better.
> 2) Adult parties, which often don't even start until 10pm and so
> have no relationship to DST.
> It appears that at least the adlut Halloween has become something of a
> thing in the UK in recent years, if passing references on TV are to be
> believed.
If they have, it's completely passed me by. Traditionally we've tended to focus more on Bonfire Night (November 5th) here, though Halloween has always been observed as well. I certain remember making pumpkin masks at primary school. I thought the tradition started here and spread to the US, but it seems to be seen as mainly an American thing now.
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnk97jd8.n06.g.kreme@mbp55.local...
> In message <IEvks.84442$9H4.34...@fx17.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > A good example of the pitfalls of using non-ASCII characters in posts. > > I
> > copied the above from Wikipedia complete with the Greek character "mu"
> > before "g" (i.e. 50 micrograms). However when I read it just now in > > Google
> > Groups the character was missing,
> Googlegroup's incompetence is no reason to avoid standard UTF-8
> characters. We saw the µ character just fine.
Who are "we"? I'm aware that I'm writing for people on Google Groups just as much as people with regular news servers. I read the group in both formats.
>> In message <8Ypks.131086$Tf3.53...@fx12.am4>
>> Guy Barry <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> > I used to think that until I had a job that started at 6am.
>> What sort of sadistic bastard makes people come in at 6am?
>There was no sadistic bastard involved. I ran a newsagent's, which opened >at 6.45am. There wouldn't have been much point in opening it at 9am, >because you sell most newspapers early in the morning. I did the early >shift because it was much easier to cover it myself than try to get the >staff to do it. And it meant I finished at 2pm every day, which was great. >Still miss the job.
>> > Even now I think that British Summer Time goes on for too long
>> I think it starts too early. Traditionally (well, meaning 'as it was
>> when i was young') it started the first Sunday in April, which seems
>> about right. In the US it seemed a little perverse to end it right
>> before Halloween.
>It starts in the second of week of March in the US now, right? It used to >start in mid-March here, but in the interests of European harmonization they >moved it to the end of March. I wouldn't mind if they moved it earlier >again, but there's little chance of that happening.
>> > And I gather that in the US you now go on until the first week in >> > November
>> When we changed from April to mid March we also added a week at the end,
>> I don't know if Halloween was a consideration, but I expect it was.
>That's what I read - it was supposed to be dangerous for children to go out >trick-or-treating in the dark. Which I thought was the whole point, but >then I was brought up in less safety-conscious days.
>> Halloween has two completely different components:
>> 1) Little kids (0-12 or so) go out door to door collecting candy
>> (trick or treating). Since they are little kids, the more
>> light hours the better.
>> 2) Adult parties, which often don't even start until 10pm and so
>> have no relationship to DST.
>> It appears that at least the adlut Halloween has become something of a
>> thing in the UK in recent years, if passing references on TV are to be
>> believed.
>If they have, it's completely passed me by. Traditionally we've tended to >focus more on Bonfire Night (November 5th) here, though Halloween has always >been observed as well. I certain remember making pumpkin masks at primary >school. I thought the tradition started here and spread to the US, but it >seems to be seen as mainly an American thing now.
Halloween is celebrated here in Northern Ireland. Bonfire Night
(November 5th), in general, is not.[1] The Halloween celebrations, like
November 5th in GB, are partly partly family parties at home and partly
organised public festivities. Lots of fireworks are used at both home
and public parties. I don't think things are quite the same as they are
in the US.
Banks of the Foyle Halloween Carnival, Derry~Londonderry (27 - 31
October):
Ireland's largest street party returns with a packed five-day
programme, culminating in a magnificent fireworks display
and a glorious parade through the city's atmospheric streets. This
year's line-up includes a catwalk parade for the best-dressed
revellers, a Halloween ball and jammhouse, ghost stories and
Halloween film screenings, markets and children's workshops.
Halloween Metro Monster Mash, Belfast (28 October):
Attractions will include live on-stage music and dance performances,
walkabout entertainers, breathtaking fire shows, wacky workshops and
special guests. Free 'ghost buses' will whisk little ghouls and
goblins to and from the event at The Odyssey [Arena].
[1] There are Bonfire/Guy Fawkes Night (Nov 5th) parties with fireworks
at the military bases in NI. The soldiers and their families are from
all parts of the UK and the children, in particular, expect the Guy
Fawkes parties with fireworks that they are accustomed to.
> In message <afgg86F8pn...@mid.individual.net>
> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> On 1/11/12 9:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <C6adnWJ2j4YRTw3NnZ2dnUVZ_oKdn...@vex.net>
>>> Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>>>> Robert Bannister:
>>>>> There are only a limited number of latitudes where daylight saving is
>>>>> acceptable.
>>>> Yes, and that limit is zero.
>>> I love daylight saving time. It moves an hour from the useless 5am range
>>> to the useful 8pm range.
>> For those of us who get up just after 5 and prefer to dine by artificial
>> light, (candles are nice, but not always convenient) I cannot possibly
>> agree. Moreover, if you weren't fast asleep during the best hours of the
>> day, you would be surprised at just how many people are out and about at
>> that time.
>> However, the whole argument has no economic sense; it is purely a
>> question of who are morning persons and who are night people, and
>> whether night people prefer to operate in daylight or in the dark.
> It is an economic issue. A lengthened evening allows people more time
> after work to do stuff with their kids, like dinners and movies and
> shopping. A lengthened morning just gives you more daylight for when you
> are getting ready for work/school, and has no economic advantages.
But people aren't stopped from taking their children out in the evenings when it gets dark in midwinter, well before the children's bedtimes. Why would they need lengthened evenings? The whole process makes more sense for events dependant on sunshine, not on the clock, like farmer. Although I don't think farmers have any particular problem with getting up with the chickens in order to get that extra hour, so maybe that story about it all being started to help farmers be more productive during wartime wasn't true.
I rather like daylight savings time - I even liked the double daylight savings time experiment, which puts me in a tiny minority here - but I am also usually an early riser. People living further north than I do tend to object to having their children waiting for school buses in the dark,though.
> >just as much as people with regular news servers. I read the group in
> >both formats.
> I wonder how many of my posts you see there.
All of them, though they expire after seven days. They're clearly flagged, e.g. "Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Nov 9, 3:36 pm)".
"Cheryl" wrote in message news:afi7egFkc8mU1@mid.individual.net...
> Although I don't think farmers have any particular problem with getting up > with the chickens in order to get that extra hour, so maybe that story > about it all being started to help farmers be more productive during > wartime wasn't true.
Wasn't it an energy-saving measure? If there's more daylight in the evenings then less energy is used in heating and lighting people's homes. In this country I believe it was first introduced during the First World War as a way of saving coal.
>> Although I don't think farmers have any particular problem with getting up >> with the chickens in order to get that extra hour, so maybe that story >> about it all being started to help farmers be more productive during >> wartime wasn't true.
>Wasn't it an energy-saving measure? If there's more daylight in the >evenings then less energy is used in heating and lighting people's homes. >In this country I believe it was first introduced during the First World War >as a way of saving coal.
"Modern DST was first proposed by New Zealand entomologist George Vernon Hudson, although many publications incorrectly credit Willett.
Using his own financial resources, in 1907 William published a pamphlet "The Waste of Daylight". In it he proposed that the clocks should be advanced by 80 minutes in four incremental steps during April and reversed the same way during September. The evenings would then remain light for longer, increasing daylight recreation time and also saving ₤2.5 million in lighting costs. He suggested that the clocks should be advanced by 20 minutes at a time at 2 am on successive Sundays in April and be retarded by the same amount on Sundays in September.
Through vigorous campaigning, by 1908 Willett had managed to gain the support of a Member of Parliament (MP), Robert Pearce, who made several unsuccessful attempts to get it passed into law. A young Winston Churchill promoted it for a time, and the idea was examined again by a parliamentary select committee in 1909 but again nothing was done. The outbreak of the First World War made the issue more important primarily because of the need to save coal. Germany had already introduced the scheme when the bill was finally passed in Britain on 17 May 1916 and the clocks were advanced by an hour on the following Sunday, 21 May, enacted as a wartime production-boosting device under the Defence of the Realm Act. It was subsequently adopted in many other countries.
William Willett did not live to see daylight saving become law, as he died of influenza in 1915 at the age of 58."
