Moccasin Mary from Tucumcari!
Nick
Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
"How far to Tucumcari?",
is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
Which is correct, please?
Nick
Pat Durkin
"Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1150109948....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Both, I suppose.
It is an Indian (NA) word, and, since it originated in an area in which
the Spanish language was spoken by the conquering nation, there is an
assumption that the vowels would follow that pronunciation line. Maybe
someone here has some experience with native language pronunciation, but
it was either the Spanish descendents or the northern European
descendants who first wrote the word(s). However, the influence of
California English on southwestern Spanish means that the vowels may
have the same sound as is applied by the people who say the words the
most. In other words, English usage prevails.
So, people in a spaghetti western might try the Spanish (probably
strongly influenced by Italian) pronunciation--to rhyme with "starry",
the Hollywood way to San Jose, etc. would be to rhyme it with "carry".
I am trying to recall if the name appears in the songs "Route 66" or
"Atcheson, Topeka and Santa Fe". Both would be older sources of common
pronunciation, and just as reliable in US folk history.
Hatunen
wrote:
English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
between. They're all correct.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Stephen Calder
In his song "Willin'", Lowell George (of Little Feat) sang Tucumcari to
rhyme with scary.
Thanks, I never knew how to spell it before.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
vorot...@yahoo.com
No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
mm
I may agree. But first, how does that apply to Louvul and Norluns?
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
Alan OBrien
news:1150159763.8...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
>> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
>> between. They're all correct.
> No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
> way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
That's not a very good idea. There are many people who don't know how to
pronounce their own name.
Nick
Thanks, Pat - that's an excellent answer - I'm pretty sure it's not in
'Route 66', though. :-)
Nick
Nick
Hatunen wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2006 03:59:08 -0700, "Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
> >
> >Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
> >
> >"How far to Tucumcari?",
> >
> >is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
> >
> >Which is correct, please?
>
> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
> between. They're all correct.
>
Thanks, Dave - three ways, then? :-)
Nick
Hatunen
>
>Hatunen wrote:
>> On 12 Jun 2006 03:59:08 -0700, "Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
>> >
>> >Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
>> >
>> >"How far to Tucumcari?",
>> >
>> >is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
>> >
>> >Which is correct, please?
>>
>> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
>> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
>> between. They're all correct.
>
>No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
>way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
Which citizens did you ask? The anglos or the hispanics?
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
Hatunen
wrote:
>On 12 Jun 2006 17:49:23 -0700, vorot...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Hatunen wrote:
>>> On 12 Jun 2006 03:59:08 -0700, "Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
>>> >
>>> >Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
>>> >
>>> >"How far to Tucumcari?",
>>> >
>>> >is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
>>> >
>>> >Which is correct, please?
>>>
>>> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
>>> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
>>> between. They're all correct.
>>>
>>> ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
>>> * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
>>
>>No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
>>way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
>
>I may agree. But first, how does that apply to Louvul and Norluns?
I'm a graduate of the university there, and the correct
pronunciation is more like L'vul.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
Hatunen
wrote:
Tucumcari is not in the song "Route 66"; The original AT&SF
railway didn't even reach New Mexico; some subsequently acquired
lines did but I'm not sure if any got to Tucumcari. The railroad
never reached Santa Fe for that matter, and the small town of
Lamy, many miles away serves as the Santa Fe rail station.
Bill McCray
> On 12 Jun 2006 17:49:23 -0700, vorot...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Hatunen wrote:
> >> On 12 Jun 2006 03:59:08 -0700, "Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
> >> >
> >> >Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
> >> >
> >> >"How far to Tucumcari?",
> >> >
> >> >is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
> >> >
> >> >Which is correct, please?
> >>
> >> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
> >> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
> >> between. They're all correct.
> >>
> >> ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
> >> * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
> >
> >No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
> >way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
>
> I may agree. But first, how does that apply to Louvul and Norluns?
That's "Lou uh vul", three syllables. Unfortunately, the TV people
mispronounce it regularly.
Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------
Reverse parts of the ISP name and the user name for my e-address
Ad absurdum per aspera
a heavy box: two come carry. ("Almost"? The "o" in "come" is barely
there.) Definite emphasis on the first syllable.
There are various theories about the name. See for instance
http://www.nenewmexico.com/counties.php?title=Tucumcari&search=quay/tucumcari_legends.php
I've also read another story somewhere: that it means "woman's
breast," a name bestowed upon the nearby mountain by some lonesome
fellow whose life might have been improved by a girlfriend and/or the
invention of eyeglasses. One hears such things about the official or
colloquial names of several bits of USAmerican geography here and
there.
--Joe
mm
<McCra...@SpringMind.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:04:02 -0400, mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On 12 Jun 2006 17:49:23 -0700, vorot...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Hatunen wrote:
>> >> On 12 Jun 2006 03:59:08 -0700, "Nick" <paci...@btopenworld.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
>> >> >
>> >> >Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
>> >> >
>> >> >"How far to Tucumcari?",
>> >> >
>> >> >is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
>> >> >
>> >> >Which is correct, please?
>> >>
>> >> English-speaking Americans tend to say too-cum-cary. Spanish
>> >> speakers more accurately say too-coom-kahry. Some say it in
>> >> between. They're all correct.
>> >>
>> >> ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
>> >> * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
>> >
>> >No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is the same
>> >way the residents pronounce it - rhymes with carry.
>>
>> I may agree. But first, how does that apply to Louvul and Norluns?
>
>That's "Lou uh vul", three syllables. Unfortunately, the TV people
>mispronounce it regularly.
I'm not going by TV. I'm going by my native Louvul girlfriend, who I
met in Chicago in 1969. I actually discussed this with her. In fact
she may have corrected my pronunciation.
But I do grant that she might have said Lou'vul or even Lou''vul with
some trailing sound from the first u between the two apostrophes.
Like Lou-a-vul with a at 1/8th normal length. I think that's what you
are indicating too.
Of course Hatunen says it's gotten even shorter since 1969 (unless he
went to college that long ago). Maybe they're all drunk or on uppers
so they can't get the whole "Lou" out these days? Or maybe it's ADD
and they forget what they were saying after the L. :) Of course I'm
prejudiced because I'm thinking most of those he talked to were in
school. Maybe that's not so.
I would have mentioned Bawlamer, but I know natives who do pronounce
it Baltimore. At least I think they do.
>Bill
em...@owlcroft.com
mm wrote:
[... Re: No, it is a city and the only correct way to pronounce it is
the same
way the residents pronounce it . . . .]
>
> I may agree. But first, how does that apply to Louvul and Norluns?
The earlier proposition can only hold when most or all residents
pronounce it in substantially the same way. When that is not the case,
presumably the preferred pronunciation would be that which the majority
of careful speakers use--perhaps what local newscasters say when
referring to the place.
The same principle would cover not merely city names, but all place
names. New York City's Houston Street (HOUSE-T'N) is an example; to
say it like the Texan or the city named after him is simply wrong.
Hatunen
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:41:38 GMT, Bill McCray
><McCra...@SpringMind.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:04:02 -0400, mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>
>>wrote:
>But I do grant that she might have said Lou'vul or even Lou''vul with
>some trailing sound from the first u between the two apostrophes.
>Like Lou-a-vul with a at 1/8th normal length. I think that's what you
>are indicating too.
>
>Of course Hatunen says it's gotten even shorter since 1969 (unless he
>went to college that long ago).
Um. 1965.
>Maybe they're all drunk or on uppers
>so they can't get the whole "Lou" out these days? Or maybe it's ADD
>and they forget what they were saying after the L. :) Of course I'm
>prejudiced because I'm thinking most of those he talked to were in
>school. Maybe that's not so.
"Lou'vul" sounds like more formal speech. In fast csual speech I
think it sounds more like "L'vul". And besides, I got a very nice
certificate with a state seal on it and the signatures of Gov
Edward T Breathitt and Secretary of State Thelma Stovall on it
what commissions me as a Kentucky Colonel so I ought to know.
On the other hand, some of my fellow soldiers at Fort Knox
insisted it had to be "Lewisville"
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
mm
>On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:15:17 -0400, mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:41:38 GMT, Bill McCray
>><McCra...@SpringMind.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:04:02 -0400, mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>
>>>wrote:
>
>>But I do grant that she might have said Lou'vul or even Lou''vul with
>>some trailing sound from the first u between the two apostrophes.
>>Like Lou-a-vul with a at 1/8th normal length. I think that's what you
>>are indicating too.
>>
>>Of course Hatunen says it's gotten even shorter since 1969 (unless he
>>went to college that long ago).
>
>Um. 1965.
>
>>Maybe they're all drunk or on uppers
>>so they can't get the whole "Lou" out these days? Or maybe it's ADD
>>and they forget what they were saying after the L. :) Of course I'm
>>prejudiced because I'm thinking most of those he talked to were in
>>school. Maybe that's not so.
>
>"Lou'vul" sounds like more formal speech. In fast csual speech I
Could be. She was very high-born. Always wore white gloves.
>think it sounds more like "L'vul". And besides, I got a very nice
>certificate with a state seal on it and the signatures of Gov
>Edward T Breathitt and Secretary of State Thelma Stovall on it
I always thought their names were Br'it and St'vul,
even though I only heard about them 5 mintues ago.
>what commissions me as a Kentucky Colonel so I ought to know.
>
>On the other hand, some of my fellow soldiers at Fort Knox
>insisted it had to be "Lewisville"
Hmmm. They should know. They're in the Army.
What about St. Louis. Is it pronounced Louie anywhere other than the
song?
> ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
vorot...@yahoo.com
However someone chooses to pronounce his name is the correct
pronunciation. See "Dick Cheney."
Bill McCray
wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:41:38 GMT, Bill McCray
> <McCra...@SpringMind.com> wrote:
>
> >That's "Lou uh vul", three syllables. Unfortunately, the TV people
> >mispronounce it regularly.
>
> I'm not going by TV. I'm going by my native Louvul girlfriend, who I
> met in Chicago in 1969. I actually discussed this with her. In fact
> she may have corrected my pronunciation.
>
> But I do grant that she might have said Lou'vul or even Lou''vul with
> some trailing sound from the first u between the two apostrophes.
> Like Lou-a-vul with a at 1/8th normal length. I think that's what you
> are indicating too.
That sounds about right.
I was born and raised in Frankfort, about 50 miles from Louisville,
and have lived in Lexington most of the rest of my life, about 75
miles from Louisville. My sister has lived there for many years. Lou
uh vul is what I generally hear from anyone in this area.
> Of course Hatunen says it's gotten even shorter since 1969 (unless he
> went to college that long ago). Maybe they're all drunk or on uppers
> so they can't get the whole "Lou" out these days? Or maybe it's ADD
> and they forget what they were saying after the L. :) Of course I'm
> prejudiced because I'm thinking most of those he talked to were in
> school. Maybe that's not so.
Now that's a possibility. I'm 65 and don't hang around with college
students.
Related to this is the pronunciation of "you all". I have claimed
that it's pronounced as two words in this area. Someone else, from
Lou uh vul I think, says that he always hears it as "y'all". I have
listened to myself and others say it lately and have to admit that it
does sound a lot like "y'all". However, when I say it, I'm thinking
"you all", not "y'all", but my naturally lazy mouth does slur it
together quite a bit. I also believe that others are also thinking
"you all". The reason for thinking that is that the possessive, when
I hear it, is clearly "yourall's", not "y'all's". Unfortunately, I'm
hearing "you all" pronounced "you guys" a lot these days. I don't
know when our state moved into the North.
mm
<McCra...@SpringMind.com> wrote:
>
>
>Related to this is the pronunciation of "you all". I have claimed
>that it's pronounced as two words in this area. Someone else, from
>Lou uh vul I think, says that he always hears it as "y'all". I have
>listened to myself and others say it lately and have to admit that it
>does sound a lot like "y'all". However, when I say it, I'm thinking
>"you all", not "y'all", but my naturally lazy mouth does slur it
>together quite a bit. I also believe that others are also thinking
>"you all". The reason for thinking that is that the possessive, when
>I hear it, is clearly "yourall's", not "y'all's". Unfortunately, I'm
>hearing "you all" pronounced "you guys" a lot these days. I don't
>know when our state moved into the North.
Well, I'm 59 and when I was 14 in Indianapolis, I once saw a girl walk
out the door from the girl's locker room, saying "Bye-bye, you guys".
I don't know who she was talking to, and I was scared to check.
Raymond S. Wise
A Google search for "Tucumcari pronounced" turns up "TOO-kum-kair-ee"
as the pronunciation (spelled "Two Come Carry" on one of the pages),
which is presumably the pronunciation used by the locals of the New
Mexico town.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
mm
wrote:
>
>Nick wrote:
>> Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
>>
>> Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
>>
>> "How far to Tucumcari?",
>>
>> is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
>>
>> Which is correct, please?
>>
>> Nick
>
>
>A Google search for "Tucumcari pronounced" turns up "TOO-kum-kair-ee"
>as the pronunciation (spelled "Two Come Carry" on one of the pages),
>which is presumably the pronunciation used by the locals of the New
>Mexico town.
That's what it says at www.tucumcarinm.com/ .
But here are 5 people named Jones
http://www.411.com/10668/search/FindPerson?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=Jones&city_zip=tucumcari&state_id=NM
and 20 people named Lopez
http://www.411.com/10668/search/FindPerson?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=Lopez&city_zip=tucumcari&state_id=NM
who live in Tucumcari. Someone could call and ask these people how it
is pronounced!
"Cual is la pronunciation de la ciudad in que vive usted?"
Or "in que tu vives?"
IIRC.
Personally, I always use the polite form even though I rarely meet
anyone else who does.
Nick
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
> Nick wrote:
> > Was a character from a Kirk Douglas Western, Man without a Star.
> >
> > Tucumcari rhymed with scary, but, in For A Few Dollars More, the line
> >
> > "How far to Tucumcari?",
> >
> > is enunciated by Lee Van Cleef as rhyming with starry.
> >
> > Which is correct, please?
> >
> > Nick
>
>
> A Google search for "Tucumcari pronounced" turns up "TOO-kum-kair-ee"
> as the pronunciation (spelled "Two Come Carry" on one of the pages),
> which is presumably the pronunciation used by the locals of the New
> Mexico town.
>
Hey - I *noticed* that - wasn't there prior to posting Moccasin Mary...
cos I looked - probably a coincidence, or , perhaps the Tucumcari
Chamber of Commerce saw it! :-D
Nick
Nick
Why there's even a reference
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tucumcari
to Route 66, which Pat mentioned!
Nick
Pat Durkin
"Nick" <anda...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1150458489....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
correct. One of the history pages of northeast New Mexico even mentions
the Santa Fe railroad (AT&SF) having bought some land in the area.
Apparently the town was too far off the main route to complete that
company's plans to route the RR there.
I think the song I had in mind was a Jimmy Rogers one. It was either
"Ten More Miles to Tucumcari" or "Ten More Hours". A coming-home kinda
song. "By the time I get to Phoenix" or "Take me back to Tulsa" and
other truck-driving ditties.
Nick
<g> So there's no railway station at Tucumcari! :-D
Interesting - I've got English Country Garden/A Little Dog Cried by
Jimmie Rodgers - there's somthing like AT&SF on Lee Van Cleef's train
in the movie - I'll check it out - Ten More Miles to Tucumcari sounds
interesting, too. :-)
Nick
Nick
~
UP&SRR in the film - Union Pacific and Southern RR?
And, of course, there *is* a rail link to Tucumcari - oops!
Nick
Hatunen
wrote:
>
>Nick wrote:
>> <g> So there's no railway station at Tucumcari! :-D
>>
>> Interesting - I've got English Country Garden/A Little Dog Cried by
>> Jimmie Rodgers - there's somthing like AT&SF on Lee Van Cleef's train
>> in the movie - I'll check it out -
>~
>~
>UP&SRR in the film - Union Pacific and Southern RR?
>
>And, of course, there *is* a rail link to Tucumcari - oops!
AMTRAK doesn't list a station there. The nearest station is Lamy
(Santa Fe), and it isn't close at all. There isn't even AMTRAK
coach service.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
Nick
Hatunen wrote:
> On 17 Jun 2006 04:20:44 -0700, "Nick" <anda...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Nick wrote:
>
> >> <g> So there's no railway station at Tucumcari! :-D
> >>
> >> Interesting - I've got English Country Garden/A Little Dog Cried by
> >> Jimmie Rodgers - there's somthing like AT&SF on Lee Van Cleef's train
> >> in the movie - I'll check it out -
> >~
> >~
> >UP&SRR in the film - Union Pacific and Southern RR?
> >
> >And, of course, there *is* a rail link to Tucumcari - oops!
>
> AMTRAK doesn't list a station there. The nearest station is Lamy
> (Santa Fe), and it isn't close at all. There isn't even AMTRAK
> coach service.
>
Cor - I was going by my Collins Atlas here in England - you can
normally trust Collins! :-D
Nick