lead pencils
DL
Is this from English or is it perhaps from some word in German?
--
Regards,
David Lindstrom
ioi...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi
>
> Would anyone know why lead pencils are designated B for soft?
>
> Is this from English or is it perhaps from some word in German?
I think I've read that "B" stands for "bold".
DL
<ioi...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi> wrote in message
news:3AAB00A3...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi...
That's an odd pair; H for hard and B for bold.
DL
Polar
wrote:
>Would anyone know why lead pencils are designated B for soft?
>
>Is this from English or is it perhaps from some word in German?
Pencil in German is Bleistift. Maybe they were all Bs at first
and then gradations came in? Just blue-skying.
--
Polar
J Cheung
> <ioi...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi> wrote
> > > Would anyone know why lead pencils are designated B for soft?
> > >
>
> That's an odd pair; H for hard and B for bold.
My understanding is that H stands for hard, as mentioned, but B stands for
black.
John
Peter Duncanson
Confirmed by the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
(Of course the lead in a lead pencil is not lead but graphite.)
--
Peter D.
ioi...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi
You're correct. More info about pencil grades can be found at:
http://www.pencilpages.com/articles/grades.htm
DL
<ioi...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi> wrote in message
news:3AAB87A1...@iiooioi.ioiiio.ioi...
Thank you!
David Lindstrom
J Cheung
similar to HB. Wonder what 'F' stands for ?
Also, although lead pencils are made from graphite, I suppose in the early
days, they must be made from 'lead'. Now my question is why, even in the
early days, call them 'lead pencils', when 'pencils' will do ? Does it
mean in the early days, there are pencils made from materials other than
lead ?
John
"DL" <D_Lin...@Bigpond.com> wrote >
Martin Ambuhl
>
> The webpage is interesting. And this reminds me, there is an F grade very
> similar to HB. Wonder what 'F' stands for ?
Fine
John Dean
J Cheung <stche...@YYsingnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:98h2br$asf$1...@dahlia.singnet.com.sg...
> The webpage is interesting. And this reminds me, there is an F grade very
> similar to HB. Wonder what 'F' stands for ?
>
> Also, although lead pencils are made from graphite, I suppose in the early
> days, they must be made from 'lead'. Now my question is why, even in the
> early days, call them 'lead pencils', when 'pencils' will do ? Does it
> mean in the early days, there are pencils made from materials other than
> lead ?
I was always taught that you can ride a horse but a pencil must be lead.....
--
John Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
J Cheung
I did guess that 'F' may stand for 'Fine'. On the other hand, why call it
'fine', implying that the other grades are not 'fine' ?
John
Polar
Are you using the sense of "fine" as "very good"? Maybe they
mean "fine" as "very thin lines".
--
Polar
J Cheung
I take it to mean 'satisfactory', 'reasonable', 'good', or 'very good'.
On the other hand, even if I took it to mean 'very thin' (not very thin
lines), my question would still be still valid, wouldn't it ?
And of course hardness, softness or blackness of the 'lead' has no bearing
on whether the 'lead' is thin or not.
John
Arbub
J Cheung wrote in message <98ionj$dke$1...@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>...
<snip>
>I take it to mean 'satisfactory', 'reasonable', 'good', or 'very good'.
>
>On the other hand, even if I took it to mean 'very thin' (not very thin
>lines), my question would still be still valid, wouldn't it ?
>
>And of course hardness, softness or blackness of the 'lead' has no bearing
>on whether the 'lead' is thin or not.
>
>John
Check out the Derwent Cumberland Pencil Museum at
they've got more answers about pencils than you have questions !
HTH
GT
JB
Obviously you are not a lead-pencil draftsman (draughtsman), for whom
the lead grades are most important. The lead grades have nothing
directly to do with product quality or thinness.
A lead-pencil draftsman will ordinarily use several (at least 4)
different grades of lead in making a single engineering/architectural
drawing - say 6H for 'invisible' guidelines, 2H for fine but strong
lines, H for strong bold lines, and HB or B for hand lettering. The
selections depend on the draftsman's preference, and the weight of his
'hand'. The darker/softer the lead, the less it will hold a point;
the B-leads won't hold a sharp point at all, and are used only for
lettering (with frequent pointing) and for freehand drawing or for
shading, similar to using charcoal sticks. Different types of
drafting paper (known as vellum - of which there are many grades) take
lead differently and require different leads and techniques. Much of
a draftsman's time during the making of a drawing is spent pointing
his leads to the degree of sharpness which particular linework or
lettering requires.
No draftsman uses thin-manufactured leads (such as Pentel 0.5mm) for
drawing linework; such leads might be used for lettering. Draftsmen
use leads that are about 1/8" thick, in mechanical leadholders,
pointing them using special mechanical sharpeners or sandpaper.
A 'Fine' lead originally designated a reasonably dark lead that would
reasonably hold a reasonably fine point for a reasonably long time,
meaning that a fairly long, uniform, dark, fine(narrow) line can be
drawn at a single pass (and all lines *must* be drawn at a single
pass). F leads divide the soft, dark B leads from the hard H leads.
The harder the lead, the less lead it leaves on the paper, therefore
the better it keeps its point. A 9H lead is often called a 'nail',
and could probably be used as such.
Other than paper(vellum) and graphite leads, there was often used
mylar(plastic) drafting film requiring plastic leads. These leads
had/have a different grading system from graphite leads.
If all this lead-pointing and lead-grading sounds complicated,
remember that the eraser is also part of the lead-draftsman's kit;
this was a big improvement over inked drawings, where drafting
mistakes or design changes were costly.
These days, of course, with the advent of computer-aided-design (CAD),
hand drafting is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
--JB
vellov
"Arbub" <ar...@wegroup.co.uk> wrote in message
<snip q about lead in pencils>
> Check out the Derwent Cumberland Pencil Museum at
>
> www.pencils.co.uk
>
> they've got more answers about pencils than you have questions !
The museum itself is an astonishing place. One of the few things to do on a
wet day in Keswick, of which there are many. I learned more than I wanted to
know about pencils, although the baroque Victorian displays of pen nibs
arranged in symmetrical patterns by the thousand were hallucinogenic in the
way that good stained glass windows can be. The industry was located there
because of the proximity of graphite mines...I've long harboured a fantasy
about offering tours that showcase the more bizarre aspects of British life,
and the pencil museum would definitely be on the Lake District sector, along
with nearby Windscale or Sellafield or whatever they now call it to convince
us that it isn't pouring plutonium into the sea any more.
With respect,
vellov
Richard Crowley
> "Arbub" <ar...@wegroup.co.uk> wrote
> > Check out the Derwent Cumberland Pencil Museum at
> > www.pencils.co.uk
> > they've got more answers about pencils than you have questions !
> The museum itself is an astonishing place. One of the few things to do on
a
> wet day in Keswick, of which there are many. I learned more than I wanted
to
> know about pencils, although the baroque Victorian displays of pen nibs
Indeed! A visit to the museum was one of the highlights of my last trip to
Rightpondia.
See my "trip report" reference:
http://www.xprt.net/~rcrowley/Euro96/Euro9619.htm
RC in Oregon
Wes Groleau
> > Yes. The switch to clay and graphite was due to the realization that
> > licking the lead (why did people do that?)
>
> Because it made them work better. You've been spoilt by these new-fangled
> easy-flowing graphite contraptions.
But lead is an insoluble metal. How would saliva make it work better?
--
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
meirm...@erols.com
<wwg...@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> posted:
>
>> > Yes. The switch to clay and graphite was due to the realization that
>> > licking the lead (why did people do that?)
>>
>> Because it made them work better. You've been spoilt by these new-fangled
>> easy-flowing graphite contraptions.
>
>But lead is an insoluble metal. How would saliva make it work better?
I know nothing, but maybe some of the water let the lead slide over
the paper better, while parts of the lead stuck out and still left
their mark. It doesn't seem intuitive but if you figure some of those
people were doing this for a good reason.... Maybe the water fills in
the low spots in the paper or lubricates the ascents from valleys to
crests, so the pencil doesn't caught on them and as the pencil slides
over the high spots, the paper spots, it pushes off the water like a
snow plow and then the following part of the lead leaves its mark.
Doesn't wetting a brillo pad or a woven steel or copper or brass pad
make it slide better over dirty dishes? Or is this only that the
water breaks down the dried food? I don't think it is only that.
I saw on tv that geckos have hairs on their feet that are so small
they can get in between parts (molecules) of sheet glass and that's
how they can climb up a glass terrarium. Other than stickiness
(whatever that is at the microscopic level) this is the only
hypothesis some people could come up with, and by golly it's true.
mei...@QQQerols.com If you email me, please let me know whether
remove the QQQ or not you are posting the same letter.
Robert Lieblich
>
> In alt.english.usage on Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:07:26 -0500 Wes Groleau
> <wwg...@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> posted:
>
> >
> >> > Yes. The switch to clay and graphite was due to the realization that
> >> > licking the lead (why did people do that?)
> >>
> >> Because it made them work better. You've been spoilt by these new-fangled
> >> easy-flowing graphite contraptions.
> >
> >But lead is an insoluble metal. How would saliva make it work better?
>
> I know nothing, but maybe some of the water let the lead slide over
> the paper better, while parts of the lead stuck out and still left
> their mark.
It isn't lead. Whatever is in the center of the pencil, surrounded
by the framework (be it wood, metal, plastic, whatever), that
transfers to the paper or other writing medium is called "the
lead." The "lead" in almost all pencis that write black is
graphite. The "lead" in colored pencils is wax, oil, or a
water-soluble material. Dye gives the color, of course. See
<http://www.gourdsbyjeanie.com/ztutorial.htm>.
Henry Petroski wrote a book named *The Pencil: A History of Design &
Circumstance*, and it has more than 400 pages about nothing but
pencils. Published 1990. I haven't read it, but I recall the
reviews -- "Just the thing you'll like if you like this sort of
thing."
Wes Groleau
> It isn't lead. Whatever is in the center of the pencil, surrounded
> by the framework (be it wood, metal, plastic, whatever), that
> transfers to the paper or other writing medium is called "the
> lead." The "lead" in almost all pencis that write black is
> graphite. The "lead" in colored pencils is wax, oil, or a
You didn't read what you quoted! It's called lead because
it used to BE actual lead, plumbum, plomo. It was changed
to graphite to avoid the consequences of people licking it.
We were arguing about why they did that.
Roberta Davies
>
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:57:18 +0000, Roberta Davies
> <roberta...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> >Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:31:43 -0500, Wes Groleau
> >> <wwg...@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Also, although lead pencils are made from graphite, I suppose in the early
> >> >> days, they must be made from 'lead'. Now my question is why, even in the
> >> >
> >> >licking the lead (why did people do that?
> >>
> >
> >I've never licked a pencil point (yuk), but I believe the purpose
> >of doing this is to lubricate the tip. Low-quality pencils skip
> >and stutter and are generally exasperating; a little dab of
> >wetness might help.
> >
> >I don't think pencils, in the modern sense, were ever made from
> >real lead. Something in the back of my mind says that a lump of
> >lead will make a greyish mark, and this was used for some sort of
> >marking somewhere around Roman times. Something else in the back
> >of my mind (and slightly to the left) says that graphite was once
> >thought to contain lead. One, both, or neither of these little
> >voices may be telling the truth.
> >
> >Robbie
>
> In my youth we had indelible pencils which would only work if you
> wetted the tip. Many clerks and the like had purple tongues from
> licking these pencils. I kid you not...
I forgot about those. In the Hounds of the Internet (a Sherlock
Holmes mailing list) we were trying to sort out whether those
things still existed. Does anyone here know?
Robbie
Mark Wallace
Wes Groleau <wwg...@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
3AB75F58...@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com...
Don't shout at him; he's only just woken up.
--
Mark Wallace
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