drive a boat?
lu
In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
drive a boat"?
In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
Thanks for your reply.
Linda
dontbother
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do
> people say " drive a boat"?
The row rowboats and sail sailboats and perhaps they "operate" bigger
boats (anything under 200 feet long is a boat, but anything over that
is a ship, at least in the US Navy).
> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
> off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a
> boat, too? Thanks for your reply.
Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get on" a
rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in". Other, bigger
boats and ships, however, people "board".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com
"Impatience is the mother of misery."
UC
A boat is piloted.
Passengers board a boat or "go aboard".
dontbother
> lu wrote:
>> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do
>> people say " drive a boat"?
>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and
>> getting off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting
>> off a boat, too?
> A boat is piloted.
Not all boats are piloted. Only some are. Tugboats and ferries, for
instance.
> Passengers board a boat or "go aboard".
the Omrud
> Dear all,
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> drive a boat"?
My boat has no motor, so I sail it. I drive the safety boat when
it's my turn.
> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
Depends on the nature of the boat. You get "into" some boats, and on
others.
--
David
=====
A. Gwilliam
> lu wrote:
>
> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people
> > say " drive a boat"?
> > In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
> > off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat,
> > too?
>
> A boat is piloted.
Here we go again!
> Passengers board a boat or "go aboard".
People also get on ferries and later get off them.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
the Omrud
That would sound extremely pretentious if used in relation to my 12
foot dinghy.
--
David
=====
Adrian Bailey
news:1159032391.2...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Dear all,
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> drive a boat"?
"steer" or "sail"
> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
Yes, though there are plenty of other expressions.
Adrian
Don Phillipson
news:1159032391.2...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> drive a boat"?
For Englishmen, it depends on the type of boat. You row a
rowing boat, sail a sailing vessel, motor in a motorboat etc.
Some other words differentiate between yourself managing
the boat or just sitting still as a passenger.
> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
Yes, nowadays we usually get on or off a boat -- unless it is a
very small one (capacity 20 people or fewer) in which case you
get into the boat and later get out of it. Traditionally for ships,
get on = embark: so that later coinages included debark, with
the prefix for the opposite function, and by analogy embus and
debus (for getting on and off a bus: this was 50 years ago
standard military nomenclature.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Nick Spalding
on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:32:33 +0000 (UTC):
> "lu" <lc...@tp.edu.tw> wrote
>
> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do
> > people say " drive a boat"?
>
> The row rowboats and sail sailboats and perhaps they "operate" bigger
> boats (anything under 200 feet long is a boat, but anything over that
> is a ship, at least in the US Navy).
Unless it's a submarine which is always a boat.
> > In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
> > off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a
> > boat, too? Thanks for your reply.
>
> Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get on" a
> rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in". Other, bigger
> boats and ships, however, people "board".
--
Nick Spalding
A. Gwilliam
> Traditionally for ships,
> get on = embark: so that later coinages included debark, with
> the prefix for the opposite function, and by analogy embus and
> debus (for getting on and off a bus: this was 50 years ago
> standard military nomenclature.)
Not to mention the equally dreadful "deplane" and "detrain" that I
wouldn't have believed if I hadn't heard them for myself. Eurgh!
Nick Spalding
on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:44:45 -0400:
"Detrain" was in The Times crossword yesterday.
--
Nick Spalding
John Kane
lu wrote:
> Dear all,
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> drive a boat"?
There are several words, including drive. However drive sounds a bit
like slang to me as in "I drive frigates" . In many cases I don't
think there is a direct equivalent to drive a car. You may get 'handle
a boat, con a boat, sail a boat, or row a boat among other
expressions.
> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
> Thanks for your reply.
> Linda
For small boats we would generally say "get in a boat". For larger
boats and ships "get on" or "board" are possible expressions. .
ray o'hara
"Nick Spalding" <spal...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:6t3bh213qb5qenvaa...@4ax.com...
> dontbother wrote, in <Xns9848FB...@139.175.55.249>
> on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:32:33 +0000 (UTC):
>
> > "lu" <lc...@tp.edu.tw> wrote
> >
> > > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do
> > > people say " drive a boat"?
> >
> > The row rowboats and sail sailboats and perhaps they "operate" bigger
> > boats (anything under 200 feet long is a boat, but anything over that
> > is a ship, at least in the US Navy).
>
> Unless it's a submarine which is always a boat.
Submarines have been classified as ships for decades.
UC
Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
One gets on board or boards a large boat or ship.
Skitt
> "lu" wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people
>> say " drive a boat"?
>
> "steer" or "sail"
I rowed or drove the ones I owned. I also cruised on those I didn't own. I
have never sailed one, nor have I ever been charged with just steering one.
>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off
>> a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>
> Yes, though there are plenty of other expressions.
I have gotten in a boat and on a boat. I have gotten out of a boat and off
a boat. I have boarded boats and also left them.
It all depends ...
Next -- the difference between a boat and a ship, and who gets to decide it.
--
Skitt
Living in The Heart of the Bay
http://www.ci.hayward.ca.us/
A. Gwilliam
> Next -- the difference between a boat and a ship, and who gets to
> decide it.
Possibly the same people who decide when a hill is in fact a mountain?
A. Gwilliam
> Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
Stephen Calder
For a boat big enough to require a licensed operator the terms are to
skipper the boat, helm the boat, pilot the boat or take the helm. The
person behind the wheel is the helmsman, who helms the boat. The skipper
is the helmsman if there is a crew of only one.
You can board the boat or get on board the boat (get on). You can go
ashore or disembark (get off). "Disembark" is rather formal.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
Nick's comment was made from a UK perspective. Submarines operated
by the Royal Navy[1] are "boats".
[1] I think the navy still has a few submarines.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
the Omrud
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>
> > Traditionally for ships,
> > get on = embark: so that later coinages included debark, with
> > the prefix for the opposite function, and by analogy embus and
> > debus (for getting on and off a bus: this was 50 years ago
> > standard military nomenclature.)
>
> Not to mention the equally dreadful "deplane" and "detrain" that I
> wouldn't have believed if I hadn't heard them for myself. Eurgh!
The first words I heard on US soil, when the DC10 I was on had landed
at JFK in 1975: "You may now deplane at this time". I knew I was
abroad for certain.
--
David
=====
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>lu wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
>> drive a boat"?
>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
>> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>> Thanks for your reply.
>> Linda
>>
>
>For a boat big enough to require a licensed operator the terms are to
>skipper the boat, helm the boat, pilot the boat or take the helm. The
>person behind the wheel is the helmsman, who helms the boat. The skipper
>is the helmsman if there is a crew of only one.
I believe that people who operate racing speedboats - cigarette boats
- "drive" them and are called "drivers".
https://www.cigaretteracing.com/index.cfm?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Skitt
Skitt
> Stephen Calder wrote:
>> lu wrote:
>>> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people
>>> say " drive a boat"?
>>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
>>> off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat,
>>> too? Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> For a boat big enough to require a licensed operator the terms are to
>> skipper the boat, helm the boat, pilot the boat or take the helm. The
>> person behind the wheel is the helmsman, who helms the boat. The
>> skipper is the helmsman if there is a crew of only one.
>
> I believe that people who operate racing speedboats - cigarette boats
> - "drive" them and are called "drivers".
>
> https://www.cigaretteracing.com/index.cfm?
When I owned a sort of a speedboat (a twelve-foot two-seater), I either
drove it or "took it out". Sometimes I let my brother take it out. That
was on the San Joaquin river near Mossdale (Lathrop).
Robert Bannister
> lu wrote:
>
>>Dear all,
>> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
>>drive a boat"?
>>In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
>>bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>>Thanks for your reply.
>>Linda
>
>
> A boat is piloted.
"Piloting" has a very specialised meaning. Perhaps you mean "steered".
Otherwise, I would choose "row" or "sail", possibly intransitive "steam"
or transitive "drive" for a small power boat driven by a non-sailor.
Then there is the word for what people do in boats: "sail" is still
favourite, although for small trips "go for a ride in/on" is possible.
>
> Passengers board a boat or "go aboard".
>
Sounds rather official like the even more formal "embark" and
"disembark". I'd choose "Get in/on" and "get out of/off".
--
Rob Bannister
Don Aitken
And those who operate canal boats (in the UK, at least) "steer" them,
and are called "steerers".
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Don Phillipson
news:4515ab84$0$626$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...
> > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
>
> Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
Engineers disagree.
shadow...@yahoo.com.au
dontbother wrote:
> Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get on" a
> rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in". Other, bigger
> boats and ships, however, people "board".
>
> --
> Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
> Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
> Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com
> "Impatience is the mother of misery."
i agree with this. you get in a boat if its small and you get on a boat
if its large. if the boat is hand moved, like a rowboat, its not
driven. However, if the boat is motorized, it is driven.
--
Galactica 459321
Games that I like to play
<a href=http://www.gamestotal.com/>Multiplayer Online Games</a> <a
href=http://www.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games</a><br><a
href=http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Unification Wars</a> - <a
href=http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Massive Multiplayer Online
Games</a><br><a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Galactic Conquest</a> -
<a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games</a><br><a
href=http://www.stephenyong.com/runescape.htm>Runescape</a><br><a
href=http://www.stephenyong.com/kingsofchaos.htm>Kings of chaos</a><br>
Ted Schuerzinger
23 Sep 2006 17:32:33 GMT:
>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
>> off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a
>> boat, too? Thanks for your reply.
>
> Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get on" a
> rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in". Other, bigger
> boats and ships, however, people "board".
For bigger boats, you can also use the fancier words "embark" and
"disembark".
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
TV Announcer: It's 11:00. Do you know where your children are?
Homer: I told you last night, *no*!
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F06.html>
Ted Schuerzinger
> Skitt wrote:
>
>> Next -- the difference between a boat and a ship, and who gets to
>> decide it.
>
> Possibly the same people who decide when a hill is in fact a mountain?
I don't remember Hugh Grant ever deciding what made a boat a ship.
dontbother
> dontbother <dontb...@mushmail.mom> wrote
>>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and
>>> getting off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and
>>> getting off a boat, too? Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get
>> on" a rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in".
>> Other, bigger boats and ships, however, people "board".
>
> For bigger boats, you can also use the fancier words "embark"
> and "disembark".
I thought about that one for a few seconds and decided that the
chance of anyone getting into a birchbark canoe[1] these days was
probably slim enough to avoid mentioning embarking and disembarking
[1] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bark&searchmode=none
bark (n1.)
"tree skin," c.1300, from O.N. borkr "bark," from P.Gmc.
*barkuz, which is probably related to birch and Low Ger. borke. The
native word was rind.
bark (n2.) Look up bark at Dictionary.com
"any small ship," c.1420, from M.Fr. barque, from L.L. barca
(c.400 C.E.), probably cognate with V.L. *barica (see barge). More
precise sense of "three-masted ship" (17c.) often is spelled barque
to distinguish it.
wowawundo...@yahoo.com.au
i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after this about
embarking and disembarking
Solo Thesailor
> In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> drive a boat"?
It will depend on what you mean, what type of boat, how formal a term
you want to use, and most likely where you are....
The terminology overlaps quite a bit. Here's a summary:
If you mean personally and physically driving/steering a boat, ie at
the wheel/tiller/button/stick,
1) for a small'ish motor-driven boat in general, "I'll drive",
"I drive/operate a (small) ferry (or a water taxi) for a living".
For a medium to large'ish boat and one that is not a ship, "I skipper",
"I operate/pilot a (big) inter-island ferry for a living". You can
use 'drive' particularly when being informal.
2) for a pilot boat on duty (guiding another boat through a narrow
channel or treacherous waters), or for a pilot to drive/take-command-of
a ship "I pilot", I operate a tugboat".
3) For ships including navy ships others with direct experience can
tell you but AFAIK "pilot". The person is the 'captain' or
other more formal ranks.
4) For a sail boat or sailing yacht that is not a small dinghy and is
generally a keel boat (having a heavy fixed keel underneath the
hull/body to help stabilise the boat), including when it is being
motor-driven, "The helmsman/helmswoman/helmsperson/helm helms the
boat/yacht", "Who's going to helm?", "I'll helm", and
more informally "I'll drive", "I'll steer".
Because the skipper (who commands the boat and crew which includes the
helmsperson) is quite often the helmsperson, "I'll skipper" can
imply "I'll helm".
5) For a sailing dinghy, if there are more than 1 person, "I'll
skipper", less often "I'll helm" although the person is equally
called 'the helm', otherwise "I sail my cat(amaran)".
6) For a row boat 'row', for a kayak or canoe, 'paddle', for
a punt 'punt'.
If you mean taking command or making the boat go without specifically
referring to personally and physically driving/steering a boat, then,
1) for a motor-driven boat that is not a ship, "I'll skipper",
"I operate a ferry", "I took the boat out last weekend".
Seeabove about the difference between a skipper and a helmsperson.
2) for a sail boat or sailing yacht, "Let's go for a sail", "I
sail competitively in bay and ocean races as well as cruise anywhere I
can", "He lent us his boat so we took her out for a sail".
3) for bigger boats and ships, AFAIK, 'skipper', 'operate',
'command'.
Generally boating people don't expect landlubbers to know boating
terms and if you're new to boating, it's okay to say whatever you
want to say. If you want to be kind of polite and respectful or jovial
you can always add some words or questions like 'how do you say
that?' with a smile that always goes a long way towards courtesy.
A related comment is that boating people (excluding boasty
luxurious-yacht owners non-operators) like to avoid pretentious
sounding, so many will not say "my yacht" but "my boat", and
similarly "drive/steer" in informal conversation.
I might write about 'get on, get off', 'in', 'up here',
'aboard', etc another time.
If you want further information from more boating people try
rec.boats.cruising, uk.rec.sailing, alt.sailing.asa, rec.boats.
Hope this helps.
Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Solo Thesailor
> >.... Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
OK, as promised...
Generally if it is a commercial boat,
passengers and crew 'board'/'come aboard'/'step aboard' the
boat/ferry/yacht/cruiser/ship, and 'leave'/'get off', 'drive
up onto/into'. Sometimes 'embark' and 'disembark' are used
for passengers particularly if it is a large vessel.
For recreational boats of the size that you have to go 'up' to it
(and it depends on who you speak to and what state of merriment you or
they are in):
'get on', 'get onto', 'climb up onto', "hold on to the
side-stay and haul yourself up here", "get you're a-se up
here", 'climb in' (from the water up into a sailing dinghy), etc.
If you descend ie go 'down' to board a boat:
'get in', 'step into', 'get into', "jump in" (just being
enthusiastic, you'd better not literally jump!), 'com'on down',
"climb down here", 'slide down' (it's true, when it's very low
tide and it's not a floating marina, you sometimes slide down a
side-stay).
General terms:
'board', 'get on board', 'get aboard', 'step on board',
"be on board by 20:00 hrs";
'get off', 'leave', 'step off'.
Pirates, water police, and customs officers 'board' the boat/ship.
You bring the guns or alcohol out or hide them away as the case may be.
:-)
Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Ted Schuerzinger
Sep 2006 02:55:03 GMT:
> i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after this about
> embarking and disembarking
Not everybody uses Google Groups, and can figure out which one is the
"post after this" that you have in mind.
dontbother
> wowawundo...@yahoo.com.au wrote
>
>> i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after this
>> about embarking and disembarking
>
> Not everybody uses Google Groups, and can figure out which one
> is the "post after this" that you have in mind.
Do you really care what someone who doesn't use capital letters in
posts agrees and disagrees with? I don't. Most of the RRs don't
either.
A. Gwilliam
I can confidently [1] assert that you were no longer in Kansas.
[1] With a bit of hesitancy caused by that "were no longer".
A. Gwilliam
> "A. Gwilliam" <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4515ab84$0$626$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...
>
> > > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
> >
> > Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
>
> Engineers disagree.
??
A. Gwilliam
> Somebody claiming to be "A. Gwilliam"
> <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote at Sat, 23 Sep 2006
> 21:46:51 GMT:
>
> > Skitt wrote:
> >
> >> Next -- the difference between a boat and a ship, and who gets to
> >> decide it.
> >
> > Possibly the same people who decide when a hill is in fact a
> > mountain?
>
> I don't remember Hugh Grant ever deciding what made a boat a ship.
??
A. Gwilliam
> Ted Schuerzinger <fe...@bestweb.spam> wrote
> > wowawundo...@yahoo.com.au wrote
> >
> >> i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after this
> >> about embarking and disembarking
> >
> > Not everybody uses Google Groups, and can figure out which one
> > is the "post after this" that you have in mind.
>
> Do you really care what someone who doesn't use capital letters in
> posts agrees and disagrees with? I don't. Most of the RRs don't
> either.
I agree with this erudite and informative post.
A. Gwilliam's sock puppet
> dontbother wrote:
>
> > Ted Schuerzinger <fe...@bestweb.spam> wrote
> > > wowawundo...@yahoo.com.au wrote
> > >
> > >> i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after this
> > >> about embarking and disembarking
> > >
> > > Not everybody uses Google Groups, and can figure out which one
> > > is the "post after this" that you have in mind.
> >
> > Do you really care what someone who doesn't use capital letters in
> > posts agrees and disagrees with? I don't. Most of the RRs don't
> > either.
>
> I agree with this erudite and informative post.
I also agree with this erudite and informative post.
--
He's just this guy, you know?
To e-mail me, replace "adlhnnveyardynvwe" with "devnull"
Robert Lieblich
>
> Ted Schuerzinger wrote:
>
> > Somebody claiming to be "A. Gwilliam"
> > <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote at Sat, 23 Sep 2006
> > 21:46:51 GMT:
> >
> > > Skitt wrote:
> > >
> > >> Next -- the difference between a boat and a ship, and who gets to
> > >> decide it.
> > >
> > > Possibly the same people who decide when a hill is in fact a
> > > mountain?
> >
> > I don't remember Hugh Grant ever deciding what made a boat a ship.
>
> ??
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112966/
--
Bob Lieblich
Who walks up molehills
Peter Duncanson
<bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> "A. Gwilliam" <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4515ab84$0$626$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...
>>
>> > > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
>> >
>> > Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
>>
>> Engineers disagree.
>
>??
Those would be the engineers who tend the engines of the ship -- the
engines that propel the ship through the water, via the propellers.
Those engineers might say that they "drive" the ship, whereas a
helmsman merely "steers" it. After all, if the ship is not moving
the helmsperson can do what ever they like with the helm, it will
make no difference.
A. Gwilliam
Tak!
A. Gwilliam
Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these days?
A. Gwilliam
> Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"?
That's an interesting slip-up. My first draft had an exclamation in
it, and subsequent revision seems to have left it in as a homophone of
the verb "are". I'm sure that's revealing about something.
the Omrud
> Peter Duncanson wrote:
>
> > Those would be the engineers who tend the engines of the ship -- the
> > engines that propel the ship through the water, via the propellers.
> >
> > Those engineers might say that they "drive" the ship, whereas a
> > helmsman merely "steers" it. After all, if the ship is not moving
> > the helmsperson can do what ever they like with the helm, it will
> > make no difference.
>
> Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
> that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these days?
Of course. Not only now, but even in the future.
- Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
--
David
=====
Peter Duncanson
<bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
>that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these days?
Snippets from:
http://www.winchester.k12.ma.us/HomePage/WHS.2000/computered/contest/trans.html
# Captain
# Deck Officer
# Pilot
# Ship Engineer
# Marine Oiler
# Able Seamen
# Sailor
Then under Ship Engineer:
Ship engineers operate, maintain, and repair propulsion engines,
boilers, generators, pumps, and other machinery. Merchant marine
vessels usually have four engineering officers: A chief
engineer, and a first, second, and third assistant engineer.
Assistant engineers stand periodic watches, overseeing the safe
operation of engines and machinery. In this line of work, there
are about 8,600 men or womenn in this line of work, and they
generally earn on average $22.85 per hour, which is suprisingly
on average more than what a captain gets per hour.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_engineering
Marine Engineers are the officers of a ship that operate and
maintain the propulsion and other systems onboard the vessel.
Marine Engineering staff also deal with the "Hotel" facilities
onboard, notably the sewage, lighting, air conditioning and
water systems. They deal with bulk fuel transfers, and require
training in firefighting and first aid, as well as in dealing
with the ship's boats and other nautical tasks- especially with
cargo loading/discharging gear and safety systems, though the
specific cargo discharge function remains the responsibility of
deck officers and deck workers.
...
There are 4 classifications of Marine Engineering licences
throughout the Merchant Marine, those being Chief Engineer, 1st
Engineer, 2nd Engineer, and 3rd Engineer.
A common Engineering crew for a ship is:
* (1) Chief Engineer
* (1) Second Engineer (1st Assistant Engineer)
* (1) Third Engineer (2nd Assistant Engineer)
* (1) Fourth Engineer/s (3rd Assistant Engineer)
* (1-2) Fifth/Junior Engineer/s
* (1) Oiler (non-licenced (un)skilled hands)
* (1-3) Greaser/s (non-licensed (un)skilled hands)
* (1-3) Junior Ratings (non licenced unskilled hands)
And a UK sighting:
http://www.walktheplank.co.uk/wtp/index.php?page=news_archive&action=preview&article_id=11
Seeking Ship's Engineer
Walk the Plank are seeking an experienced Ship's Engineer to
join the crew of the UK's only theatre ship for this Summer's
tour, May 22 to August or part thereof.
Poking about at:
https://www.marine-recruitment.com/candidate/vacList.asp
and doing a Vacancy Search - United Kingdom found, inter alia:
Job Title Vessel
2nd/1st Engineer Bunker Barge
2nd/1st Engineer DP-Accomodation Barge
2nd/1st Engineer Dredger
2nd/1st Engineer Product Tanker
2nd/1st Engineer LPG Carrier
2nd/1st Engineer Construction Barge
2nd/1st Engineer Harbour Tug
2nd/1st Engineer Container
Other engineer categories available for searching are Chief
Engineer, Gas/Cargo Engineer, 3rd Engioneer.
I think the answer to your question is Yes, although the work of a
ship's engineer is not restricted to the engine room.
UC
A. Gwilliam wrote:
> UC wrote:
>
> > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
>
> Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
Perhaps. It depends on what you actually mean.
dontbother
<adlhnnve...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote
> A. Gwilliam wrote:
>
>> dontbother wrote:
>>
>> > Ted Schuerzinger <fe...@bestweb.spam> wrote
>> > > wowawundo...@yahoo.com.au wrote
>> > >
>> > >> i agree with this, and i also agree with the post after
>> > >> this about embarking and disembarking
>> > >
>> > > Not everybody uses Google Groups, and can figure out which
>> > > one is the "post after this" that you have in mind.
>> >
>> > Do you really care what someone who doesn't use capital
>> > letters in posts agrees and disagrees with? I don't. Most of
>> > the RRs don't either.
>>
>> I agree with this erudite and informative post.
>
> I also agree with this erudite and informative post.
Mee, too.
A. Gwilliam
Talk Like a Pirate Day was five days ago.
Robert Lieblich
>
> the Omrud wrote:
[ ... ]
> > - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
>
> Talk Like a Pirate Day was five days ago.
True, but utterly irrelevant.
The gent quoted as addressing Captain Kirk is Montgomery Scott, aka
"Scotty", chief engineer of USS Enterprise, NCC-1701, and the
imitation is of a Scottish broque, not pirate talk.
Tons of info on all this on the Web.
--
Bob Lieblich
Perfectly logical, Captain
Robert Lieblich
>
> A. Gwilliam wrote:
> > UC wrote:
> >
> > > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
> >
> > Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
>
> Perhaps. It depends on what you actually mean.
*Everything* depends on what you actually mean.
--
Bob Lieblich
Who stlil can't read minds
UC
Robert Lieblich wrote:
> UC wrote:
> >
> > A. Gwilliam wrote:
> > > UC wrote:
> > >
> > > > Pilot a small boat, captain a large ship.
> > >
> > > Surely it's a helmsman who actually "drives" a large ship?
> >
> > Perhaps. It depends on what you actually mean.
>
> *Everything* depends on what you actually mean.
Yes. Of course.
the Omrud
> "A. Gwilliam" wrote:
> >
> > the Omrud wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
> >
> > Talk Like a Pirate Day was five days ago.
>
> True, but utterly irrelevant.
>
> The gent quoted as addressing Captain Kirk is Montgomery Scott, aka
> "Scotty", chief engineer of USS Enterprise, NCC-1701, and the
> imitation is of a Scottish broque, not pirate talk.
Broque?
In any case, a "Scottish" broque as imitated by a Canadian, recently
passed away to the great Enterprise in the sky.
--
David
=====
A. Gwilliam
> "A. Gwilliam" wrote:
> >
> > the Omrud wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
> >
> > Talk Like a Pirate Day was five days ago.
>
> True, but utterly irrelevant.
{sigh}
Peter Moylan
> A. Gwilliam <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> had it:
>> Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
>> that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these
>> days?
>
> Of course. Not only now, but even in the future.
>
> - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
The tradition that all engines must be tended by Scots started either
with the railways or with ships - I'm not sure which - but it very
quickly spread to space vessels, even before such space vessels existed.
In the science fiction of the 1930s and 1940s, the engine room was
almost invariably controlled by someone called Scotty.
For reasons that nobody has ever adequately explained, science fiction
on television is fairly consistently about 50 years behind science
fiction in books.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
Stephen Calder
> the Omrud wrote:
>
>> A. Gwilliam <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> had it:
>
>
>>> Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
>>> that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these days?
>>
>>
>> Of course. Not only now, but even in the future.
>>
>> - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
>
>
> The tradition that all engines must be tended by Scots started either
> with the railways or with ships - I'm not sure which - but it very
> quickly spread to space vessels, even before such space vessels existed.
> In the science fiction of the 1930s and 1940s, the engine room was
> almost invariably controlled by someone called Scotty.
>
> For reasons that nobody has ever adequately explained, science fiction
> on television is fairly consistently about 50 years behind science
> fiction in books.
>
My theory: the latest science fiction (for example Peter Hamilton) is
just too weird, man. Takes a while for people to catch up.
Just as the theory of relativity took 50 years to sink in.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
Linz
> the Omrud wrote:
>> A. Gwilliam <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> had it:
>
>>> Ah people working in an engine-room really called "engineers"? For
>>> that matter, do people even actually work in engine-rooms these
>>> days?
>>
>> Of course. Not only now, but even in the future.
>>
>> - Och, no, Captain Kirrrrrk, the engines cannae take ana moooore!
>
> The tradition that all engines must be tended by Scots started either
> with the railways or with ships - I'm not sure which - but it very
> quickly spread to space vessels, even before such space vessels
> existed. In the science fiction of the 1930s and 1940s, the engine
> room was almost invariably controlled by someone called Scotty.
>
> For reasons that nobody has ever adequately explained, science fiction
> on television is fairly consistently about 50 years behind science
> fiction in books.
Tchah, you could have crossposted this one to the SF experts!
Ted Schuerzinger
wrote at Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:44:45 GMT:
>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
>> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>
> Yes, nowadays we usually get on or off a boat -- unless it is a
> very small one (capacity 20 people or fewer) in which case you
> get into the boat and later get out of it. Traditionally for ships,
> get on = embark:
I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening scene,
when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the lady doing
the christening saying something to the effect of "...and all those who
sail *in* it". Of course, this would have been language from 1912; usage
changes quite a bit in 90 years. After all, I've seen books from the
1930s use the words "to-day" and "to-morrow".
Nick Spalding
<Xns984931FA69C98j...@ID-121946.user.dfncis.de>
on Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:56:16 -0000:
> Somebody claiming to be "Don Phillipson" <d.phil...@ttrryytteell.com>
> wrote at Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:44:45 GMT:
>
> >> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting off a
> >> bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
> >
> > Yes, nowadays we usually get on or off a boat -- unless it is a
> > very small one (capacity 20 people or fewer) in which case you
> > get into the boat and later get out of it. Traditionally for ships,
> > get on = embark:
>
> I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening scene,
> when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the lady doing
> the christening saying something to the effect of "...and all those who
> sail *in* it". Of course, this would have been language from 1912; usage
> changes quite a bit in 90 years. After all, I've seen books from the
> 1930s use the words "to-day" and "to-morrow".
Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the traditional
wording when christening a ship.
--
Nick Spalding
Mark Brader
> > I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening scene,
> > when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the lady doing
> > the christening saying something to the effect of "...and all those who
Nick Spalding:
> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the traditional
> wording when christening a ship.
Well, if you're going to bring *facts* into it, the Titanic wasn't
christened anyway.
--
Mark Brader "The world little knows or cares the storm through
Toronto which you have had to pass. It asks only if you
m...@vex.net brought the ship safely to port." -- Joseph Conrad
Mark Wallace
"Ted Schuerzinger" <fe...@bestweb.spam> wrote in message
news:Xns9847D834FA5FF8j...@ID-121946.user.dfncis.de...
> Somebody claiming to be dontbother <dontb...@mushmail.mom> wrote at Sat,
> 23 Sep 2006 17:32:33 GMT:
>
>>> In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
>>> off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a
>>
>> Again, it depends on the type and size of boat. You can't "get on" a
>> rowboat unless it's upside down; you usually "get in". Other, bigger
>> boats and ships, however, people "board".
>
> For bigger boats, you can also use the fancier words "embark" and
> "disembark".
Therefore, given that grass is green, a journey is a bigger boat -- although
I can't recall ever having disembarked from a journey.
Mark Wallace
> UC wrote:
>
>> lu wrote:
>>
>> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people
>> > say " drive a boat"?
>> > In addition, in English, people say getting on a bus and getting
>> > off a bus. Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat,
>> > too?
>>
>
> Here we go again!
>
>> Passengers board a boat or "go aboard".
>
> People also get on ferries and later get off them.
Yes, I got off on a ferry, once. It was either that or three hours of
watching absent dolphins.
Ted Schuerzinger
2006 13:18:59 GMT:
> Nick Spalding:
>> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the traditional
>> wording when christening a ship.
I said I was quoting from memory. :-) The funny thing is, when I was
watching the movie, my very first thought upon hearing that line was of
this thread. (Then again, it may be more scary than funny....)
> Well, if you're going to bring *facts* into it, the Titanic wasn't
> christened anyway.
Don't blame me, blame the guy who wrote "A Night to Remember".
Peter Duncanson
>Ted Schuerzinger:
>> > I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening scene,
>> > when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the lady doing
>> > the christening saying something to the effect of "...and all those who
>> > sail *in* it". Of course, this would have been language from 1912...
>
>Nick Spalding:
>> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the traditional
>> wording when christening a ship.
>
Perhaps that was not always the case in 1912. I din't know.
>Well, if you're going to bring *facts* into it, the Titanic wasn't
>christened anyway.
That's a fair point. The Titanic was "named". It was the passengers
who were "blessed".
(Crew member: This job would be much better if we didn't have all
those blessed passengers on board.)
Robert Lieblich
>
> Ted Schuerzinger wrote
[ ... ]
> > I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening scene,
> > when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the lady doing
> > the christening saying something to the effect of "...and all those who
> > sail *in* it". Of course, this would have been language from 1912; usage
> > changes quite a bit in 90 years. After all, I've seen books from the
> > 1930s use the words "to-day" and "to-morrow".
>
> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the traditional
> wording when christening a ship.
In the best-selling -- and, as I recall, prize-winning -- novel, "The
Sand Pebbles," published in 1962, the captain of USS San Pablo
(American ship sailing the Yengtse River in the Twenties) makes a
point of ensuring that his sailors describe themselves as sailing "in
San Pablo." Standard Navy language, says the cap'n. I don't think
the movie made from the novel included this point, but as compensation
it offers plentiful views of some of the finest movie scenery ever --
a very young Candice Bergen.
US Navy jargon these days is pretty much "on the <name of ship>." You
can even hear it said of submarines. Too many damned landlubbers
going to sea.
--
Bob Lieblich
Who has wrung more salt water out of his socks ...
Pat Durkin
"Peter Duncanson" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:fubbh2pa9e13el0l0...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:34:43 -0400, "ray o'hara" <r...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nick Spalding" <spal...@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>news:6t3bh213qb5qenvaa...@4ax.com...
>>> dontbother wrote, in <Xns9848FB...@139.175.55.249>
>>> on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:32:33 +0000 (UTC):
>>>
>>> > "lu" <lc...@tp.edu.tw> wrote
>>> >
>>> > > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do
>>> > > people say " drive a boat"?
>>> >
>>> > bigger
>>> > boats (anything under 200 feet long is a boat, but anything over
>>> > that
>>> > is a ship, at least in the US Navy).
>>>
>>> Unless it's a submarine which is always a boat.
>>
>>Submarines have been classified as ships for decades.
>>
> Nick's comment was made from a UK perspective. Submarines operated
> by the Royal Navy[1] are "boats".
>
> [1] I think the navy still has a few submarines.
Electric Boat Corporation Internet Home Page Electric Boat Corporation
is the premiere designer and builder of nuclear submarines for the
United States Navy.
www.gdeb.com/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages
Electric Boat Corporation Homepage. Electric Boat Awarded $14 Million
Contract Modification for Submarine Work ... US Navy Awards Electric
Boat $30.7M Contract Modification for Virginia-class ...
>
Peter Moylan
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> The tradition that all engines must be tended by Scots started
>> either with the railways or with ships - I'm not sure which - but
>> it very quickly spread to space vessels, even before such space
>> vessels existed. In the science fiction of the 1930s and 1940s, the
>> engine room was almost invariably controlled by someone called
>> Scotty.
>>
>> For reasons that nobody has ever adequately explained, science
>> fiction on television is fairly consistently about 50 years behind
>> science fiction in books.
>
> Tchah, you could have crossposted this one to the SF experts!
I didn't check the headers. At the time I wrote the above, I had pretty
much reached the point of assuming that every AUE article was being
crossposted to the SF group.
Solo Thesailor
> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
> > drive a boat"?
After much brain-stressing in order to write down what little I think
I know for the benefit of mankind, typos and all, maybe nobody ever
reads it, apart from one kind reader who gave a rating -bless them.
Anyway, I'll continue talking to my 'puter downthread here all alone by
ourselves.....
I just remembered something that might be of interest to people
stepping into/onto a boat and wishing to be polite, there's a custom of
asking...
"Permission to come aboard....",
probably short for: "May I have your permission to come aboard?"
to which the owner will normally give a suitable welcoming reply (but
some rascal of a crewmember might speak out of turn...'jus git yer a-se
up 'ere n stop talkin' sh-t', whereby you....oh nevermind....more
stories elsewhere another day).
Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Tony Cooper
<notforspa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> lu wrote:
>> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
>> > drive a boat"?
>> >.... Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>
>After much brain-stressing in order to write down what little I think
>I know for the benefit of mankind, typos and all, maybe nobody ever
>reads it, apart from one kind reader who gave a rating -bless them.
>Anyway, I'll continue talking to my 'puter downthread here all alone by
>ourselves.....
>
>I just remembered something that might be of interest to people
>stepping into/onto a boat and wishing to be polite, there's a custom of
>asking...
>
>"Permission to come aboard....",
>
That expression is most likely to be used sarcastically or
rhetorically here. It might be used sarcastically by someone about to
step onto a 12' aluminum skiff, or rhetorically by the marine police
to see if you have any illegal fish or do not have the required items
on the boat.
My S-I-L was overtaken by the marine police this weekend when he was
fishing too close to a navy facility in the Jacksonville (FL) area.
The boarding person said "Permission" (that's all they say) with the
full expectation that permission would be granted. This expectation
was enhanced by the presence of a "red hat" (another marine policeman
who was manning a loaded, deck-mounted, machine gun). The gunner
wears a red helmet and red jacket to visibly indicate that he is armed
and ready.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Charles Riggs
wrote:
True. Good man.
--
Charles Riggs
Peter Duncanson
<notforspa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>After much brain-stressing in order to write down what little I think
>I know for the benefit of mankind, typos and all, maybe nobody ever
>reads it, apart from one kind reader who gave a rating -bless them.
>Anyway, I'll continue talking to my 'puter downthread here all alone by
>ourselves.....
You have at least one human reader of the results of your
brain-stressing.
Maria
> Nick Spalding wrote:
>> Ted Schuerzinger wrote, in
>>>
>>> scene, when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the
>>> lady doing the christening saying something to the effect of
>>> "...and all those who sail *in* it". Of course, this would have
>>> been language from 1912; usage changes quite a bit in 90 years.
>>> After all, I've seen books from the 1930s use the words "to-day"
>>> and "to-morrow".
>>
>> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the
>> traditional wording when christening a ship.
>
> True. Good man.
Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and boats
are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its" being the
plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality should have no
bearing upon the matter.
Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just think
of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that. Oh, yes.
Melanie.
--
Maria
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee.
There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name.
A. Gwilliam
> On 26 Sep 2006 06:41:57 -0700, "Solo Thesailor"
> <notforspa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Permission to come aboard....",
>
> That expression is most likely to be used sarcastically or
> rhetorically here.
I'd say that it would be used slightly humorously here, being one of
those things that people think of as "what you have to say"; a bit like
a butcher asking "And what can I do you for?".
Nick Spalding
on Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:06:24 GMT:
> Charles Riggs wrote:
> > Nick Spalding wrote:
> >> Ted Schuerzinger wrote, in
> >>>
> >>> I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening
> >>> scene, when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the
> >>> lady doing the christening saying something to the effect of
> >>> "...and all those who sail *in* it". Of course, this would have
> >>> been language from 1912; usage changes quite a bit in 90 years.
> >>> After all, I've seen books from the 1930s use the words "to-day"
> >>> and "to-morrow".
> >>
> >> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the
> >> traditional wording when christening a ship.
> >
> > True. Good man.
>
> Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and boats
> are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its" being the
> plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality should have no
> bearing upon the matter.
>
> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just think
> of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that. Oh, yes.
> Melanie.
Come off it Maria, we're talking about language not logic.
--
Nick Spalding
Grumpy Old Nerd (fka Old Fogey)
"Maria" <maria...@sbcglobal.net> wrote,
in article <A_dSg.6344$vJ2....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>> Nick Spalding wrote:
>>> Ted Schuerzinger wrote, in
>>>>
>>>> I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening
>>>> scene, when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the
>>>> lady doing the christening saying something to the effect of
>>>> "...and all those who sail *in* it". Of course, this would have
>>>> been language from 1912; usage changes quite a bit in 90 years.
>>>> After all, I've seen books from the 1930s use the words "to-day"
>>>> and "to-morrow".
>>>
>>> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the
>>> traditional wording when christening a ship.
>>
>> True. Good man.
>
>Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and boats
>are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its" being the
>plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality should have no
>bearing upon the matter.
>
>Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just think
>of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that. Oh, yes.
>Melanie.
The one with the roller-skates? ("Melanie Safka")
Arghh!!! Lack of sentiment be the cause of many of the ills what
befall the world today.
Look what we've done to your ar-tickle!
Adrian Pepper
Ontario, Canada.
====
1885 W. C. RUSSELL Strange Voyage I. iv. 36 She was not an Englishman,
though I really forget the nationality of the colour she flew at the
peak.
(1989 OED2 entry for "Englishman")
1865 J. CAMERON Malayan India 274 She is not a slimly built
vessel,..but is of thorough man-of-war build.
(1989 OED2 entry for "slimly")
Ted Schuerzinger
Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:06:24 GMT:
> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
> Oh, yes. Melanie.
You've got a brand new quay??
Maria
> Maria wrote [in reply to Charles]:
>> Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and
>> boats are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its"
>> being the plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality
>> should have no bearing upon the matter.
>>
>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
>
> Come off it Maria, we're talking about language not logic.
This is an old battle. I always say pretty much what I said above, and
Charles (and others) insist I'm wrong.
It's tradition.
--
Maria
Maria
> Arghh!!! Lack of sentiment be the cause of many of the ills what
> befall the world today.
See my reply to Nick.
--
Maria
Maria
> Maria wrote:
>
>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
>
> You've got a brand new quay??
<groan> and <laugh>
--
Maria
Pavel314
> Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:06:24 GMT:
>
>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
I just ran a few tests on Babel Fish http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and
ship comes out:
Masculine in French
Feminine in Spanish and Italian
Neuter in German
Maria
>> Maria wrote:
>>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
>
> I just ran a few tests on Babel Fish http://babelfish.altavista.com/
> and ship comes out:
>
> Masculine in French
> Feminine in Spanish and Italian
> Neuter in German
There's some German in my ancestry. No French, Spanish, or Italian. It
all makes sense now. My mind is influenced by my genes. (There's a joke
in that line somewhere, but I can't quite get at it.)
A. Gwilliam
I think it's generally accepted that the traditional use of "she" to
refer to ships in English, and certain other similar usages, has
nothing to do with grammatical gender. For instance, "scip" was neuter
in Old English, and "bát" was masculine.
Nick Spalding
on Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:49:47 GMT:
> Nick Spalding wrote:
> > Maria wrote [in reply to Charles]:
>
> >> Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and
> >> boats are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its"
> >> being the plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality
> >> should have no bearing upon the matter.
> >>
> >> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
> >> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
> >> Oh, yes. Melanie.
> >
> > Come off it Maria, we're talking about language not logic.
>
> This is an old battle. I always say pretty much what I said above, and
> Charles (and others) insist I'm wrong.
>
> It's tradition.
Traditions in collision!
--
Nick Spalding
Solo Thesailor
> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just think
Awww... Missy, all those sailors at sea, give 'em
someone/something/somegoddess to worship, won't you? Besides, a ship is
definitely feminine....Think about: 'mind of her own', 'needs constant
attention', 'drains money', 'lost her way', 'throws you around', 'gives
hints but never tells you what's wrong', 'dances her
anger..oops..anchor', 'always right', 'needs new wardrobe', la di dah
di dah...
Now, readers.... it was a joke. If you say 'I agree' I'll clobber you.
Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Peter Duncanson
<Pave...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
>I just ran a few tests on Babel Fish http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and
>ship comes out:
>
>Masculine in French
I seem to remember that this caused a period of uncertainty before
the naming and launch in 1960 of the French liner "France".
The ship, masculine, was named after the country, feminine.
The ship was named and launched by Madame de Gaulle, wife of the
President. I believe it was the President who decided that when an
article was necessary the ship should be referred to as "La France".
(I hope I have that right.)
Leslie Danks
[...]
> Awww... Missy, all those sailors at sea, give 'em
> someone/something/somegoddess to worship, won't you? Besides, a ship is
> definitely feminine....Think about: 'mind of her own', 'needs constant
> attention', 'drains money', 'lost her way', 'throws you around', 'gives
> hints but never tells you what's wrong', 'dances her
> anger..oops..anchor', 'always right', 'needs new wardrobe', la di dah
> di dah...
"Owning a wooden boat is like standing under a cold shower trying to keep
warm by tearing up five-pound notes."
--
Les
Charles Riggs
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 26 Sep 2006 06:41:57 -0700, "Solo Thesailor"
><notforspa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> lu wrote:
>>> > In English, what verb do people use for a boat? Do people say "
>>> > drive a boat"?
>>> >.... Do people say getting on a boat and getting off a boat, too?
>>
>>After much brain-stressing in order to write down what little I think
>>I know for the benefit of mankind, typos and all, maybe nobody ever
>>reads it, apart from one kind reader who gave a rating -bless them.
>>Anyway, I'll continue talking to my 'puter downthread here all alone by
>>ourselves.....
>>
>>I just remembered something that might be of interest to people
>>stepping into/onto a boat and wishing to be polite, there's a custom of
>>asking...
>>
>>"Permission to come aboard....",
>>
Absolutely. It is a custom strictly adhered to by the navies of the
world, ("Permission to come aboard, please?" or a variation on that)
and it also holds for private boats. It is considered totally out of
order to do otherwise.
>That expression is most likely to be used sarcastically or
>rhetorically here. It might be used sarcastically by someone about to
>step onto a 12' aluminum skiff,
On a boat of that size, I'd agree. Still, it'd be nice to ask first
unless you know the owner well or the boarding was prearranged.
>or rhetorically by the marine police
>to see if you have any illegal fish or do not have the required items
>on the boat.
They might not even ask at all, I don't know. Unless they perceive
that a crime is in progress, cops generally do ask before entering
one's home, so I'd think that'd apply to a private boat, as well.
>My S-I-L was overtaken by the marine police this weekend when he was
>fishing too close to a navy facility in the Jacksonville (FL) area.
>The boarding person said "Permission" (that's all they say) with the
>full expectation that permission would be granted. This expectation
>was enhanced by the presence of a "red hat" (another marine policeman
>who was manning a loaded, deck-mounted, machine gun). The gunner
>wears a red helmet and red jacket to visibly indicate that he is armed
>and ready.
>
It is unclear to me what you mean.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>> Nick Spalding wrote:
>>> Ted Schuerzinger wrote, in
>>>>
>>>> I was watching "A Night To Remember" tonight, and in the opening
>>>> scene, when the Titanic is being christened, I distinctly heard the
>>>> lady doing the christening saying something to the effect of
>>>> "...and all those who sail *in* it". Of course, this would have
>>>> been language from 1912; usage changes quite a bit in 90 years.
>>>> After all, I've seen books from the 1930s use the words "to-day"
>>>> and "to-morrow".
>>>
>>> Apart from the fact that it should be "in her" that is the
>>> traditional wording when christening a ship.
>>
>> True. Good man.
>
>Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and boats
>are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its" being the
>plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality should have no
>bearing upon the matter.
>
>Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just think
>of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that. Oh, yes.
>Melanie.
As have well-constructed women, well-designed ships have smooth,
graceful shapes. Such shapes are more common in women than in men, so
"she" and "ship", as words, go together naturally. Secondly, ships
have long taken care of men at sea, sometimes a highly dangerous
environment. That a bond should form between them is entirely natural
and understandable. Most men more easily form close bonds to ships
when thinking of them as women, not as men nor as impersonal,
unlovable *it*s. It is more difficult to love an *it*, you'll agree,
and impossible to think of being cared for by an *it*. (Robots may, in
time, modify that, who knows.)
Historically, there have been few women sailors in comparison to men,
so most sailors think of their ships, if of good nature and loveable,
as *she*s. Without even mentioning Reynold's number or alluding to
fluid dynamics, I can assure you that typical ship's shapes help them
glide through the water with ease, steadiness and even grace. Few men
are as smooth and graceful as women, so the sex of ships has long been
thought of as being female. Who even knows how a typical *it* is
shaped, more to the point.
Lastly and perhaps less significantly, it is simply the tradition to
call a ship a she, never a he, and only, in some unfortunate
circumstances, an it.
--
Charles Riggs
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>>My S-I-L was overtaken by the marine police this weekend when he was
>>fishing too close to a navy facility in the Jacksonville (FL) area.
>>The boarding person said "Permission" (that's all they say) with the
>>full expectation that permission would be granted. This expectation
>>was enhanced by the presence of a "red hat" (another marine policeman
>>who was manning a loaded, deck-mounted, machine gun). The gunner
>>wears a red helmet and red jacket to visibly indicate that he is armed
>>and ready.
>>
>It is unclear to me what you mean.
By what, Charles? The "marine police" are not US Marines; they are
police officers assigned to duty on the water. They check for
licenses, safety equipment, the sobriety of the boaters, and the
legality of the fish caught and retained.
The US Navy has a facility there that is the third largest such
facility in the US. Boaters are not allowed to be within certain
distances of Navy ships and facilities. The marine police enforce
this.
Not all of the marine police patrol in boats with mounted machine
guns. When they do, the machine gun operator wears a red helmet and
jacket to visually communicate to the boater that this is the
fucking-a serious boatload of marine police. This serves to eliminate
discussions about "I'll move out, Officer, just as soon as I boat this
grouper and finish this beer".
The boater is aware that the red hat is sitting in the sun sweltering
in the added layer of a red jacket, bored silly, and would welcome the
chance to liven up his day.
Grumpy Old Nerd (fka Old Fogey)
"Maria" <maria...@sbcglobal.net> wrote,
in article <_OkSg.5408$GR....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>:
>Grumpy Old Nerd (fka Old Fogey) wrote, in part:
>
>> Arghh!!! Lack of sentiment be the cause of many of the ills what
>> befall the world today.
>
>See my reply to Nick.
Arghh!!!
The British use of "she" to refer to ships reflects the profound
respect what they has for both ships and women alike, I say!
Were I to encounter a ship referred to as "he", I would expect, er,
him, to be womanned by women sailors, I would!
Still can't figure out the Melanie thing. But a young woman singing to
me parts of Melanie's roller-skate song is one of my few clear memories
of high school.
Look what we've done to your posts, Mar!
There, that's what I should've said the first time.
Adrian Pepper
Ontario, Canada.
====
Now imagining the scolding of Miss Purity Pinker.
A. Gwilliam
> Not all of the marine police patrol in boats with mounted machine
> guns. When they do, the machine gun operator wears a red helmet and
> jacket to visually communicate to the boater that this is the
> fucking-a serious boatload of marine police. This serves to eliminate
> discussions about "I'll move out, Officer, just as soon as I boat this
> grouper and finish this beer".
I'm reminded of being on the Space Coast to see Glenn go up in the
shuttle. More than one sightseeing pilot had to be chased off by
fighters as the time of launch approached.
Which bit of "restricted airspace" don't people understand?
I seem to recall that we were able to catch part of one side of the
warnings being given. Post-9/11 I suspect they might not have been so
forgiving of someone who failed to do anything about the first couple
of metaphorical shots across the bow.
Skitt
Airspace is not the only thing that is restricted during a launch. Quite a
few of the launches have been delayed by boats wandering into restricted
areas of the Atlantic. Things can go wrong, and they have done so in the
past, especially in the early phases of, say, the Polaris and Poseidon
programs (pad launches from the tip of the Cape). Wheee! Everybody, duck!
It's coming right back at us!
--
Skitt
Living in The Heart of the Bay
http://www.ci.hayward.ca.us/
Maria
> Maria wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps this time, I can convince you (and others) that ships and
>> boats are not living beings. They are things. The are its ("its"
>> being the plural of "it"). Historical silliness and sentimentality
>> should have no bearing upon the matter.
>>
>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
>
> As have well-constructed women, well-designed ships have smooth,
> graceful shapes. Such shapes are more common in women than in men, so
> "she" and "ship", as words, go together naturally.
Balloons, bullets, and some bricks have smooth, graceful shapes, too.
Are they referred to, individually, as "she"?
> .......Secondly, ships
> have long taken care of men at sea, sometimes a highly dangerous
> environment. That a bond should form between them is entirely natural
> and understandable. Most men more easily form close bonds to ships
> when thinking of them as women, not as men nor as impersonal,
> unlovable *it*s. It is more difficult to love an *it*, you'll agree,
> and impossible to think of being cared for by an *it*. (Robots may, in
> time, modify that, who knows.)
Okay, what you (a boat guy) just said is no doubt true. Maybe it's not a
persuasive reason to call a ship "she," though. It's hard for someone
who is not a "boat guy" to say.
>
> Historically, there have been few women sailors in comparison to men,
> so most sailors think of their ships, if of good nature and loveable,
> as *she*s. Without even mentioning Reynold's number or alluding to
> fluid dynamics, I can assure you that typical ship's shapes help them
> glide through the water with ease, steadiness and even grace. Few men
> are as smooth and graceful as women, so the sex of ships has long been
> thought of as being female. Who even knows how a typical *it* is
> shaped, more to the point.
>
> Lastly and perhaps less significantly, it is simply the tradition to
> call a ship a she, never a he, and only, in some unfortunate
> circumstances, an it.
My arguments:
A ship is not a human, nor any other living thing.
A "she" is.
This may come up again.
--
Maria
joetaxpayer
Maria wrote:
> My arguments:
>
> A ship is not a human, nor any other living thing.
> A "she" is.
>
> This may come up again.
>
I recently had the privilege of touring a ship that fought during world
war two. One of its crew, now in his 80's was there as part of the
event. When he referred to the ship using the female pronouns instead of
the neutral 'it', should I have stopped him, and corrected him with a
lecture? Or should I only correct my neighbor, who calls his sailboat
'she'?
I'm just curious where you draw the line on this topic.
JOE
Tony Cooper
<bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I'm reminded of being on the Space Coast to see Glenn go up in the
>shuttle. More than one sightseeing pilot had to be chased off by
>fighters as the time of launch approached.
>
>Which bit of "restricted airspace" don't people understand?
>
My son-in-law (late of this thread but snipped out) has problems with
some distance estimations but not others. He apparently can't tell if
he's within 100 yards of a honking great boat, but can tell you - to
the fraction of an inch - the length of a redfish he has hooked but
not yet boated.
Maria
> Still can't figure out the Melanie thing. But a young woman singing
> to me parts of Melanie's roller-skate song is one of my few clear
> memores of high school.
I'm going to the 45th Reunion (of our graduating class) this weekend.
There were no Melanie songs during those high school years. We had the
Shirelles though, and the Supremes, and Elvis, Ricky, the Coasters...
too many to name right now. Those were good music years for teenagers.
(As I remember them, anyway.)
Back to Melanie: Apparently, she did a song about something "longer than
it is wide" being a phallic symbol. That would refer to males, right?
And boats are usually longer than wide, so boats, if sexed they must be,
should be male, not female. See?
But I'd still call them all "its."
--
Maria
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee.
Maria
>
> "Owning a wooden boat is like standing under a cold shower trying to
> keep warm by tearing up five-pound notes."
My husband had a wooden boat (mainly for water-skiing) many years ago.
He'll agree 100% with your quote.
--
Maria
Peter Moylan
>> Besides, if having "gender," a ship would be masculine. Male. Just
>> think of what's-her-name the singer and you'll know why I say that.
>> Oh, yes. Melanie.
>
> As have well-constructed women, well-designed ships have smooth,
> graceful shapes. Such shapes are more common in women than in men, so
> "she" and "ship", as words, go together naturally.
In Maria's favour, it must be said that a ship is more likely to be
pear-shaped than hourglass-shaped.
A catamaran is clearly feminine.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.