On the noun 'material'

[Lazypierrot]

Would you please tell me a suitable noun to refer to the phrase ***a single sheet of stainless steel*** in the following sentence ?

Creating a cell phone battery case from ***a single sheet of stainless steel required the finest skill***.

I wonder if I can use "material" to refer to it, or if "material" only refers to "stainless steel".

I need your help.

Cordially,

LP

[Ian Jackson]

In message <026e4a96-4acb-488c...@googlegroups.com>,
Lazypierrot <lazyp...@gmail.com> writes

I think you are asking whether "material" can refer to the battery case
(as well as the sheet of stainless steel).

I would say that the answer is 'no'. "Material" is an all-embracing,
general name for something which something is made of/from. It often
refers to cloth, but it could be almost anything (including stainless
steel). It does not refer to the finished product. You would therefore
not normally refer to a battery case as "material".
--
Ian

[tony cooper]

"Material" would be any substance appropriate for the application. If
the item was created with a single sheet of plastic, "material" could
be substituted for plastic. However, the rest of the description
("required the finest skill") might not be applicable if the material
was easier to form than stainless steel.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[tony cooper]

You might, however, refer to what the battery case is made of as
"material" if you don't know what it is. The generic meaning is
useful there.

[Lazypierrot]

2012年5月25日金曜日 7時51分03秒 UTC+9 tony cooper:

Thanks a lot everyone for your kind comments. So, is it that "material" can refer to "a sheet of stainless steel" because the battery case is made of a sheet of stainless steel?

To put it in another way, are bothe of the following expressions possible? Or only 1 is possible?

1 the material of the battery case is stainless steel
2 the material of the battery case is a sheet of stainless steel, not a combination of some sheets

LP

[alien8er]

Do you intend to refer to the stainless steel in a clause added to
the original sentence, or in another sentence entirely that, in
context, clearly refers to the original? I see no reason not to.

"Creating a cell phone battery case from ***a single sheet of

stainless steel required the finest skill***. The material is very
stiff."

Or...

"Creating a cell phone battery case from ***a single sheet of

stainless steel required the finest skill*** due to the material's
stiffness ".

...or similar.

Hope that helps.


Mark L. Fergerson

[Lazypierrot]

2012年5月25日金曜日 9時37分45秒 UTC+9 alien8er:

I am very sorry that I made a big mistake of putting the last *** mark in the wrong position, which has confused you. It should have been as follows:

Creating a cell phone battery case from ***a single sheet of stainless steel*** required the finest skill.

What I would like to know is whether ***a single sheet of stainless steel*** can be refered to as "material", as in the following sentence.

Creating a cell phone battery case from the material required the finest skill.

Cordially

LP

[Ian Jackson]

In message <inetr7t7p02ekera6...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony.co...@gmail.com> writes

That is what the OP is referring to. The material the battery case is
made of is stainless steel. However, you would not normally refer to the
case - as a case - as "material".

That said, don't the armed forces sometimes refer to equipment
(vehicles, weapons, ships, weapons etc) - ie the collection of things
which are necessary to carry out the task - as "materielle"?
--
Ian

[Lazypierrot]

2012年5月25日金曜日 16時11分33秒 UTC+9 Ian Jackson:

I am sorry that my explanation is so poor that I cannot make my point understood. I understand that a battery case is not material. What I would like to know is whether ***a sheet of stainless steel*** that a battery case is made of can be referred to as "material". More specifically, although I understand that "stainless steel" is called "material," but can I call ***the sheet*** of stainless steel "material"? I'd appreciate your help.

Cordially

LP

[Ian Jackson]

In message <fb60763f-b651-476e...@googlegroups.com>,
Lazypierrot <lazyp...@gmail.com> writes
>20120 >> In message <inetr7t7p02ekera6...@4ax.com>, tony cooper

I can see no reason why you cannot also call the sheet of the "the
material" "the material".

But once the sheet of stainless steel has been made into a battery case,
you would probably call it a "component", a "component part", a "piece
part" or a simply "part". If it was made from several parts, you might
call it "an assembly" or a "sub-assembly"

In the clothing industry, you would usually refer to the cloth which the
clothes are made from as "the material". Obviously, "the material" is
made of "other materials" (cotton, wool, nylon etc). Before these
"materials" are processed and made into cloth, you might call them "raw
materials". It's only when material is made into something which is
finished (or is partly finished) that you would not call it "material".
--
Ian

[Daniel James]

In article <92111eed-cf58-4545...@googlegroups.com>,

Lazypierrot wrote:
> What I would like to know is whether ***a single sheet of stainless
> steel*** can be refered to as "material", as in the following
> sentence.
>
> Creating a cell phone battery case from the material required the
> finest skill.

I think the answer to that is "no".

Most people reading that sentence will think that you are talking about
the skill required to manufacture the case from stainless steel, and
will miss the important point that you are talking about a single sheet.

Depending on the context in which the sentence will appear you might be
able to use some form of words such as:

Creating a cell phone battery case in this way required the
finest skill.

or

Creating a cell phone battery case from this material in this
way required the finest skill.

BTW I don't find "the finest skill" sounds quite natural. I'd suggest "a
high degree of skill".

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 08:11:33 +0100, Ian Jackson

I think that is normally spelt "materiel" although pronounced
"materielle".

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/materiel?q=materiel

materiel
noun
[mass noun]

military materials and equipment:
"the shipping of materiel south into the battle zone"

Origin:
early 19th century: from French matériel, adjective (used as a noun)

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Ian Jackson]

In message <ikqur79jg5tvrfvrd...@4ax.com>, "Peter
Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes

I did wonder about the spelling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materiel
et al.
--
Ian

[Don Phillipson]

"Lazypierrot" <lazyp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb60763f-b651-476e...@googlegroups.com...

> . . . I understand that a battery case is not material. What I would

> like to know is
> whether ***a sheet of stainless steel*** that a battery case is made of
> can be
> referred to as "material". More specifically, although I understand that
> "stainless
> steel" is called "material," but can I call ***the sheet*** of stainless
> steel "material"?

Getting back to basics . . .
1. Any physical stuff may be called material (as distinct from the ideas
embodied
in the material, e.g. the shape, design, dimensions, etc.)
2. Grammar is no help here; (all your variants were grammatically
correct.)

> What I would like to know is whether ***a single sheet of stainless
> steel***

> can be refered to as "material", as in the following sentence.
>
> Creating a cell phone battery case from the material required the finest
> skill.

This is very suitable on two conditions.
1. Earlier in the text, you must specify that a single sheet of stainless
steel
is the only material under discussion.
2. Reword THIS for THE viz.
Creating a cell phone battery case from this material required the finest
skill.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Bill McCray]

"The finest skill" isn't something I would expect to hear. "The utmost
skill" or "the greatest skill" sound more natural to me.

Bill in Kentucky

[hls]

"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >>

> I can see no reason why you cannot also call the sheet of the "the
> material" "the material".

In this case, what distinguishes a single sheet from a half sheet?
"Stainless steel" is a material of construction. "303 Stainless Steel" is
more meaningful. " An 8" x 6" sheet of 303 stainless steel" is even
more defined.


"Sheet" .

[Ian Jackson]

In message <OcydndhAvco7AyLS...@giganews.com>, hls
<h...@nospam.nix> writes

I feel that, somewhere, one of us has missed the point of the original
question.
--
Ian

[hls]

"tony cooper" <tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4hetr79dotshqj2ef...@4ax.com...

>>
> "Material" would be any substance appropriate for the application. If
> the item was created with a single sheet of plastic, "material" could
> be substituted for plastic. However, the rest of the description
> ("required the finest skill") might not be applicable if the material
> was easier to form than stainless steel.

> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

There is no requirement that the "material" be appropriate for the
application. We would hope appropriate materials would be chosen
but that is not a condition of the sentence.

[hls]

"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:es5fvMGo...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...

I doubt that either of us has missed all the points that are raised by the
original question. A poor sentence is just a poor sentence. It is like
painting onesself into a corner, I think. Sometimes we talk ourselves
into a situation from which it is difficult to recover gracefully.

[musika]

hls wrote:
>
> I doubt that either of us has missed all the points that are raised
> by the original question. A poor sentence is just a poor sentence.
> It is like painting onesself into a corner, I think. Sometimes we
> talk ourselves into a situation from which it is difficult to recover
> gracefully.

ObAEU: oneself.
--
Ray
UK

[tony cooper]

Of course it is a requirement. The original sentence was (skipping
the asterisks) "Creating a cell phone battery case from a single sheet
of stainless steel required the finest skill."

It's understood in that sentence that a cell phone battery case *can*
be made from the material, and - if so - the material must be
appropriate for the use. The requirement is that the material can be
formed into a cell phone battery case, not that the material make a
case that will hold up under use.



--

[Ian Jackson]

In message <u3tvr71h6bnem25q7...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony.co...@gmail.com> writes

I'm not sure that I understand which way you are arguing. A battery case
can be made from many types of material. Some (such as stainless steel)
are suitable. Others (such as cheese) - while they COULD be used to make
a battery case - are totally unsuitable!
--
Ian

[tony cooper]

I think we have to assume that the sentence involves a realistic
situation. There's no context to indicate that it's a joke.

With that assumption, the material has to be suitable for construction
of the project. It may not be suitable in the long-run as a durable
material, but there's an implied suitability here.

The sentence belongs in comparative context. Making the case out of
one sheet of stainless requires more skill than making the case out of
sections welded together sort of thing.

It is the substitution of "material" for a specific type of stock that
is up for discussion, not if the sentence could be about something
silly. The OP is wondering how something he intends to write can be
re-worded and if "material" is an appropriate substitution.




--

[Lazypierrot]

2012年5月26日土曜日 7時44分15秒 UTC+9 tony cooper:

Yes, Tony! That is what I really would like to know. After all, is it correct to say that "material" is an appropriate substitution for "a sheet of stainless steel"?

Cordially

LP

2012年5月26日土曜日 7時44分15秒 UTC+9 tony cooper:

[tony cooper]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 18:59:30 -0700 (PDT), Lazypierrot
<lazyp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>2012?5?26???? 7?44?15? UTC+9 tony cooper:

Certainly. Stainless steel is a material. If you don't want to
specify the material, then "material" is just fine.

It is similar to saying "The box is made of wood" instead of saying
"The box is made of cypress wood". Wood is the material, and cypress
is the type of material (wood).

[Jerry Avins]

"Material" can refer to anything solid, including woven cloth. The
sentence you want using a dummy noun -- "flib" will do -- would clarify
your question.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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[Jerry Avins]

I would write "Creating a cell phone battery case from *this* material
required *great* skill" provided that the nature of the material had
been previously defined.

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

[Don Phillipson]

"Bill McCray" <billm...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jpo531$op4$1...@news.albasani.net...

>> Creating a cell phone battery case from this material required the finest
>> skill.
>
> "The finest skill" isn't something I would expect to hear. "The utmost
> skill" or "the greatest skill" sound more natural to me.

"Finest" suggests precision in ways utmost and greatest do not
(cf. the standard phrase fine detail.) This makes the term appropriate
for precision engineering.

[Jerry Avins]

On 5/26/2012 7:44 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
> "Bill McCray"<billm...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:jpo531$op4$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>>> Creating a cell phone battery case from this material required the finest
>>> skill.
>>
>> "The finest skill" isn't something I would expect to hear. "The utmost
>> skill" or "the greatest skill" sound more natural to me.
>
> "Finest" suggests precision in ways utmost and greatest do not
> (cf. the standard phrase fine detail.) This makes the term appropriate
> for precision engineering.

"Fine" in the sense of "precise" is akin to "fine" in the sense of
"thin". (Fine point, fine line, fine detail, fine hair, etc.) The "fine"
in "fine skill" seems more akin to me to that to that in "fine horse" or
"fine art" A skilful engineer can be said to have done a fine job.
That's not quite the same as having exhibited fine skill.

See also "fine motor" as opposed to "gross motor", fine gold, and other
uses.

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