fronting of adverbials
Ray
Is the following ok?
Better than Tom, John defended himself.
I'd appreicate your help.
Ray
mm
<raymondali...@yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Is the following ok?
>
>Better than Tom, John defended himself.
What does that mean?
John defended John better than Tom defended Tom?
John is better than Tom in general and that's why he defended himself,
or why he was able to defend himself.
Maybe it would be clear in context, but you gave us no context.
>
>I'd appreicate your help.
>
>Ray
--
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Indianapolis 7 years
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Ray
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:01:26 -0800 (PST), Ray
>
> >Hi,
>
> >Is the following ok?
>
> >Better than Tom, John defended himself.
>
> What does that mean?
>
> John defended John better than Tom defended Tom?
This is my intended reading. On this reading, is it correct to front
the adverbial?
QT
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:01:26 -0800 (PST), Ray
> <raymondali...@yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is the following ok?
> >
> > Better than Tom, John defended himself.
>
> What does that mean?
>
> John defended John better than Tom defended Tom?
>
> John is better than Tom in general and that's why he defended himself,
> or why he was able to defend himself.
>
> Maybe it would be clear in context, but you gave us no context.
>
> >
> > I'd appreicate your help.
> >
> > Ray
I'm not a native speaker, but I'd assume it is meant to mean (ugh)
something like "Unlike Tom, John defended himself".
--
qt
James Hogg
> On Dec 13, 4:43 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:01:26 -0800 (PST), Ray
>>
>> <raymondaliasapoll...@yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Is the following ok?
>>> Better than Tom, John defended himself.
>> What does that mean?
>>
>> John defended John better than Tom defended Tom?
>
> This is my intended reading. On this reading, is it correct to front
> the adverbial?
No. It doesn't work. It's not idiomatic and no one will understand what
you mean.
--
James
Marius Hancu
Perhaps:
Better than Tom in self-defense, was John.
Better than Tom in self-defense, John was, for sure.
Not that I like it very much, but just for the sake of having "Better"
first.
Marius Hancu
Don Phillipson
> > <raymondali...@yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
> >
> > > Is the following ok?
> > >
> > > Better than Tom, John defended himself.
> >
> > What does that mean?
> >
> > John defended John better than Tom defended Tom?
> >
> > John is better than Tom in general and that's why he defended himself,
> > or why he was able to defend himself.
> >
> > Maybe it would be clear in context, but you gave us no context.
"QT" <quicktransU...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:xn0giuj8...@nntp.aioe.org...
> I'm not a native speaker, but I'd assume it is meant to mean (ugh)
> something like "Unlike Tom, John defended himself".
No: as actually found, this usually means both attempted
to defend themselves and John defended himself more
successfully than did Tom.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Bill McCray
I see any of three interpretations of the original:
1. John defended himself better than Tom defended himself.
2. John defended himself better than he defended Tom.
3. John defended himself better than Tom defended John.
I have no reason to believe one interpretation over the others. Putting
the "better than Tom" first or last doesn't change the ambiguity.
Bill in Kentucky
Glenn Knickerbocker
>Is the following ok?
>Better than Tom, John defended himself.
Nope. The ambiguity in part of speech of "better" makes this too
confusing. It sounds as if John is better, or the mere fact of his
self-defense is better. Make it unambiguously adverbial and it works
fine, though: "More adeptly than Tom," "Better than Tom did," etc.
�R >@< >@< >@< >@< >@< http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/emopvere.html
"insulting me; that is one of alt.religion.kibology's purposes" --jwgh
John Lawler
As you've been told already, no it's not.
The reason is that you categorized it wrong.
You have heard about fronting adverbials,
like Yesterday I arrived vs I arrived yesterday.
True, this happens. However, only to adverbials.
And "better than Tom" is *not* an 'adverbial'.
Anything with a comparative adjective or
adverb in it is part of a comparative
construction and can't be separated from it.
Don't try to label and categorize words; that's
not how grammar works. English grammar
is about *constructions*, not parts of speech
or individual words.
-John Lawler - http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue
"Academic integrity still plagues campus"
Headline, University of Michigan Daily 11/12/02