Problem with "issue"
Caesar Romano
incorrect. Now everything is an "issue". For example, at one time an
alcoholic might have been described as having an "alcohol problem".
Now that person only has "alcohol issues".
Does anyone know why this change came about?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.
Pete
news:liqvj5hef8aigdvrj...@4ax.com:
> It seems that several years ago the word "problem" became politically
> incorrect. Now everything is an "issue". For example, at one time an
> alcoholic might have been described as having an "alcohol problem".
> Now that person only has "alcohol issues".
>
> Does anyone know why this change came about?
It's part of a drift towards piss-elegance.
The word 'issue' was adopted because the word 'problem' is blunt. If you
can persuade your customers that they have issues with your product, rather
than problems, then suddenly your product is problem-free! No-one likes
problems. Nasty things. An issue is more user-friendly.
Virgin Media write me letters starting 'Hello You': so cuddly you could
just EAT them. They get confused on their internet support page, which they
call 'My page'. 'My broadband isn't working', it says. 'If you try doing
<such-and-such> it should work. Is my broadband working now?' My? Your?
Whose is it? My Computer, My Documents and My Pictures (but not My
Registry) are symptoms of the same tendency. When I first came across 'My
Computer' I changed its name to 'My Little Pony', which messed the computer
up quite badly.
I saw a bit of an American sitcom this evening in which a woman, hearing a
knock at her door, called out 'Who is this?' I suppose the old fashioned
'who is that' or 'who is there' are a bit blunt, though the person outside
might well have wondered if a guessing game was in the offing.
Here in the UK recently one sometimes hears 'yourself' used instead of
'you': 'Here is a letter I've been asked to give yourself'. 'You' is
perceived as too blunt. Or perhaps there's a dim memory of the English
lesson in which they were taught not to say 'me and him went to the park';
the lesson that has produced lines like 'they asked he and I to go to the
park'.
People my age had it drummed into them as children that it was proper, on
most occasions, to say 'lady' rather than 'woman'. Feminists later
corrected this. But a lot of people were left confused, including the
police, who, instead of questioning a woman, now question a female. I have
heard young women in London talking about walking into a room where there
were several men and two or three females. When I hear 'females' used in
this way I always wonder what species they are.
People who are interested in language and people who aren't are all fine.
It's the ones in between who mess it all up!
Peter
mm
wrote:
>It seems that several years ago the word "problem" became politically
>incorrect.
It has nothing to do with politically incorrect. I'm sure you'll find
that some counselors and therapists got better results when they
didn't label people as having problems. That's often seen by the
person as an accusation of weakness or incompetence. Issue connotes
someone who disagrees, more as an equal.
Others tried it and also saw an improvement.
If they stick to the word issue, at least with many people**, they can
have a much better discussion, get and help the client get just as
much understanding as if they had called them problems. The goal of a
counselor or a therapist should be the well-being of the client, and
not a slavish devotion to the use of one particular word. Words are
here to serve us and not the other way around.
**A good counselor or therapist will know how to vary his method to
suit the particuarl person he's dealing with,
> Now everything is an "issue". For example, at one time an
>alcoholic might have been described as having an "alcohol problem".
>Now that person only has "alcohol issues".
>
>Does anyone know why this change came about?
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
aquachimp
In the alcohol example I see a difference between problem and issues.
I have a problem with booze: it doesn't like me; it makes me feel
unwell, this sometimes raises social issues.
The problem relates to me personally, the issues relate to the
problems that problem can lead to.
Caesar Romano
>> If the well known issue of steel buildings collapsing or weakening
>> under fire isn't real why do you suppose applying fireproofing
>> material to steel structural elements is a absolute requirement in
>> modern building codes?
where a building-collapse is described as an "issue" rather than a
"problem".
I wonder if the people in the building would consider it an issue
rather than a problem.
Ian Jackson
<Sp...@uce.gov> writes
"Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
as frequently as they can. Maybe they get paid for each time they say
it. I visibly wince each time I hear it (at least, when used as a
euphemism for a more-appropriate word - which it usually is). I've often
heard it used at an alarming frequency of repetition - as many as four
times in fifteen seconds. It's even worse than "decimate". I hate the
word!!
--
Ian
HVS
> Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> "Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem
>> use it as frequently as they can. Maybe they get paid for each
>> time they say it. I visibly wince each time I hear it (at
>> least, when used as a euphemism for a more-appropriate word -
>> which it usually is). I've often heard it used at an alarming
>> frequency of repetition - as many as four times in fifteen
>> seconds. It's even worse than "decimate". I hate the word!!
>
> One hears these barbarisms on a daily basis.
The over-use of "issues" is hardly a new phenomenon, though: Tony
Benn was being mocked for his use and pronunciation of the word 30 or
40 years ago, I think.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
mm
>
>Now, for a really good meldrew, notice how telefolk
>almost always introduce items with the word 'now'.
I havent' noticed that yet but I have noticed that they do say things
to give the impression the news just happened. In one case it was 8
hours earlier but they said "is forming" or something like that.
For people who just got home from work and didn't listen to the radio
during the day, it gives the impression the station is doing a great
job, and that's what the station wants.
mm
Good distinction. It also applies to the building-collapse thing.
I've never heard anyone call a building collapse an issue, or even a
problem (unless the building was run-down and abandoned). It's called
a calamity or a tragedy. But what to do about a building that is in
danger of collapse is both a problem and an issue. Can it be
reinforced, can/should the tree leaning in its direction be cut down?
Is the building so dangerous that it should be condemned and torn
down? What about the other 100 buildings that have similar problems
but not so severe? With the buildings that are in pretty good
condition still, what to do with all the people renting apartmentts in
them. Can just one apartment on each floor be evactuated, since the
problem is only at one corner?** Issue: "a point, matter, or dispute,
the decision of which is of special or public importance: the
political issues." RHD
**My mother owned a building like this. About 5 stories tall, my
uncle's bar and grill, in which my father was a half-partner, was on
the first floor, until my uncle died and the bar was rented or sold.
My uncle had no children, so we still owned the building, lived
hundreds of miles away, and the city found or someone reported to the
city a vertical crack right at the corner, which when I saw it was 20
feet long or more. Engineers said it couldn't be repaired at a
reasonable price. The city made everyone with a corner apartment move
out, but the rest was rented for 2 more years or more. Eventually the
whole building was condemned, the building (really, the lot) bought by
the city, eventually torn down, and the lot sold for a fast food
restaurant. There was a problem, the crack and the risk of
collapse, and there were lots of issues about what to do about it and
when, and who would pay.
Caesar Romano
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote Re Re: Problem with
"issue":
>"Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
>as frequently as they can. Maybe they get paid for each time they say
>it. I visibly wince each time I hear it (at least, when used as a
>euphemism for a more-appropriate word - which it usually is). I've often
>heard it used at an alarming frequency of repetition - as many as four
>times in fifteen seconds. It's even worse than "decimate". I hate the
>word!!
Well put.
John Varela
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
> as frequently as they can.
ObAUE: Why the single scare quotes around media?
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Ian Jackson
<OLDl...@verizon.net> writes
>On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:51:19 UTC, Ian Jackson
><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
>> as frequently as they can.
>
>ObAUE: Why the single scare quotes around media?
>
--
Ian
HVS
In 'effect', that question asks 'why' one shouldn't place 'quotes'
around any 'word' that you feel 'like' presenting that 'way'.
The 'answer' is that it's 'not' standard to 'do' so in standard
'English'.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Some people here seem to have an issue with "issue". They issue
declarations of detestation of "issue".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Ian Jackson
<use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes
--
Ian
Pete
news:2ql1k5527b3vprtdu...@4ax.com:
> I've never heard anyone call a building collapse an issue, or even a
> problem (unless the building was run-down and abandoned). It's called
> a calamity or a tragedy. But what to do about a building that is in
> danger of collapse is both a problem and an issue.
What to do about the building is surely a question.
>... There was a problem, the crack and the risk of
> collapse, and there were lots of issues about what to do about it and
> when, and who would pay.
Or there were the problems of the crack and the risk of collapse, and there
were the questions of what to do about it, when, and who should pay.
Peter
HVS
Not all issues are questions, though: judging whether the answers to
those questions should be based on social, physical, economic or
other factors raises issues rather than questions.
John Varela
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <dxizd0mOwXzR-pn2-pMuk6TQIY7Z4@localhost>, John Varela
> <OLDl...@verizon.net> writes
> >On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:51:19 UTC, Ian Jackson
> ><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> "Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
> >> as frequently as they can.
> >
> >ObAUE: Why the single scare quotes around media?
> >
> Hell - why not?
Now that I think about it, 'media' was probably worth an Oy!
Ian Jackson
>On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 20:48:27 UTC, Ian Jackson
><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <dxizd0mOwXzR-pn2-pMuk6TQIY7Z4@localhost>, John Varela
>> <OLDl...@verizon.net> writes
>> >On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:51:19 UTC, Ian Jackson
>> ><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Issue" is an abominable word. The 'media' and politicians seem use it
>> >> as frequently as they can.
>> >
>> >ObAUE: Why the single scare quotes around media?
>> >
>> Hell - why not?
>
>Now that I think about it, 'media' was probably worth an Oy!
>
"He wasn't able to comment on the issue, but a statement would be issued
later".
--
Ian
Robin Bignall
Is that a problem?
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
HVS
Aren't both 'issues' and 'problems' now supposed to be seen as
'opportunities'?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
If the glass is half full.
Robin Bignall
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
Don't you get the feeling sometimes that the world is becoming
overpopulated with people who have too much money, too much time and
hardly any sense?
HVS
Well, I'd happily end that question after the 12th word.
(And who originated the saying that "Everyone except you and me is
either stupid or mad; and I'm not too sure about you..."?)
Ian Jackson
<use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes
--
Ian
Barb Knox
S.B. <s...@home.inv> wrote:
> HVS wrote:
>
> > who originated the saying that "Everyone except you and me is
> > either stupid or mad; and I'm not too sure about you..."?
>
> "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou is
> a little queer"
obAEU: Shouldn't that be "thou art"?
> "Robert Owen (1771�1858)...was a social reformer and one
> of the founders of socialism and the cooperative movement."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Owen
--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum videtur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------
Patok
> S.B. <s...@home.inv> wrote:
>> HVS wrote:
>>
>>> who originated the saying that "Everyone except you and me is
>>> either stupid or mad; and I'm not too sure about you..."?
>> "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou is
>> a little queer"
>
> obAEU: Shouldn't that be "thou art"?
Is there something in the history of aeu (maybe some long and
notable discussion that I'm not aware of) to explain why you question
this particular correct phrase?
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
Ian Jackson
<crazy.d...@gmail.com> writes
>Barb Knox wrote:
>> S.B. <s...@home.inv> wrote:
>>> HVS wrote:
>>>
>>>> who originated the saying that "Everyone except you and me is
>>>>either stupid or mad; and I'm not too sure about you..."?
>>> "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou is
>>> a little queer"
>> obAEU: Shouldn't that be "thou art"?
>
> Is there something in the history of aeu (maybe some long and
>notable discussion that I'm not aware of) to explain why you question
>this particular correct phrase?
>
of "All t'world's a little queer - 'cetp'n thee an' me - and even thee's
a little queer".
--
Ian
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
That's the version I'm familiar with.
As for the second "thee", OED says:
thee, pers. pron.
3. Used as nom., instead of thou.
Often so used dialectally, and, in recent times, usually by
Quakers, esp. with vb. in 3rd pers. sing.; but th or th unemphatic
often represents both thou and thee.
John Varela
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Aren't both 'issues' and 'problems' now supposed to be seen as
> >'opportunities'?
> >
> Or "challenges".
It depends on the kind of problem. If it's operational
inefficiencies, or poorly designed software, or strangers sneaking
into the White House, then what we truly have is an opportunity for
improvement. If it's pirates stealing ships and holding crews
hostage, we have a challenge.
aquachimp
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:54:25 UTC, Ian Jackson
>
> > >Aren't both 'issues' and 'problems' now supposed to be seen as
> > >'opportunities'?
>
> > Or "challenges".
>
> It depends on the kind of problem. If it's operational
> inefficiencies, or poorly designed software, or strangers sneaking
> into the White House, then what we truly have is an opportunity for
> improvement. If it's pirates stealing ships and holding crews
> hostage, we have a challenge.
>
> --
> John Varela
> Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Erm, and where do "issues", (meaning excuses) fit in there?
John Varela
I don't know how "issues" got to be "excuses", but I thought in this
subthread we were classifying issues and problems.
aquachimp
Ah I was following a line of thought. issues to challenges to
opportunities (or the other way around) and then I remembered how
often a claim to have "issues" is sometimes rejected as adopting
excuses for certain types of behaviour.