Mains wiring question (USA)
Bob E.
re-covered, so it's a prime time to do some electrical upgrades.
The local building inspector says that romex cable run on the roof (before
foam insulation is put on) must be covered by sheet metal stapled over it to
protect from nail incursion (yes, he knows this is a *foam* roof, no
shingles, etc., but no matter).
I've asked electrical supply wholesalers about this but they have no product
such as this.
Is this something an electrical supplier would have? Or is just a roll of
sheet metal stock what's called for?
Thanks.
John Larkin
You might be able to use armored cable, the MX or whatever stuff. It's
not very expensive.
John
Artemus
"Bob E." <bes...@invalid.tv> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C88F494A...@news.eternal-september.org...
You might ask him how sheet metal, which staples can penetrate,
will protect the romex from nails. The real requirement may be that
you will need to run it in steel conduit.
Art
Proteus IIV
YOU USUALLY COVER ROMEX/UF AND OTHER NON-METALLIC CABLES AT THE BEAMS
ONLY
BASICALLY WHERE NAILS OR SCREWS MAY PENETRATE THEM WHEN ADDING
DRYWALL OR WALL PANELS
YOU CAN GO TO A SCRAP METAL PLACE AND HAVE AS MANY SMALL PLATES AS
YOU NEED CUT AND DRILLED OUT FOR YOU
EVEN ARMORED CABLE MAY BE SUBJECTED TO NAIL AND DRYWALL SCREW
PENETRATION
THEREFOR YOU MUST USE A STRONG [NAIL/SCEW DETERRING] PLATE METAL TO
COVER BEAM/CABLE INTERSECTIONS
A CONSTRUCTION OR BUILDING MATERIALS PLACE MAY HAVE THEM REDY MADE
IAP
Bob E.
> will protect the romex from nails. The real requirement may be that
> you will need to run it in steel conduit.
> Art
There is no logic to the declarations of building inspectors. He says if we
choose to use romex (our option), we must cover it with metal strips wherever
it is exposed.
Another option is to use armored (MX) cable or EMT conduit. Romex seems the
simplest if we can find a simple metal strap to cover it.
Thanks.
Bob E.
> ONLY BASICALLY WHERE NAILS OR SCREWS MAY PENETRATE THEM WHEN ADDING
> DRYWALL OR WALL PANELS
On top of this flat-roofed building, picture a sea of plywood as far as the
eye can see. Holes are drilled into the plywood where walls intersect the
roof and romex is dropped into the walls. From this point to the distant
location of the load (breaker) panel the romex is laid on the plywood and
stapled down. Over this romex must be attached some kind of protection,
declared by the local building inspector.
Thanks.
Proteus IIV
THAT IS ODD
I SUSPECT THE BUILDINGS INSPECTOR IS MISSING SOMETHING
MAYBE HE IS A HACK
CALL BLDGS DEPT. ASK FOR FIELD SUPERVISORS INPUT
IN ANY EVEN
IF YOU CAN PROVE THE CABLES ARE NOT IN HARMS WAY
YOU WILL SATISFY THE INSPECTORS REQUIREMENT
YOU CAN ALSO TRY METAL RACEWAY (WIREMOLD)
WHERE THE CABLE IS EXPOSED
IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL SAFER AS WELL
BEST OF LUCK TO YOU
IAP
PeterD
Ah, that clarifies the one question I had (thought you were talking
SE, not branch circuits...)
I'd strongly recommend conduit (metalic) in this case. The sheet metal
that would be required would be really hard to work with and form over
the wires.
Be careful that whatever route you go, you have the inspector's
approval of the materials before you begin, you don't want the problem
of "Oh, that metal is not heavy enough" to rear its ugly head after
you've completed the task! 3
Ecnerwal
<0001HW.C88F494A...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Bob E. <bes...@invalid.tv> wrote:
> The local building inspector says that romex cable run on the roof (before
> foam insulation is put on) must be covered by sheet metal stapled over it to
> protect from nail incursion (yes, he knows this is a *foam* roof, no
> shingles, etc., but no matter).
For actual protection you want EMT or armored cable. While this roof is
a foam roof, there's no telling what the next roofing job (quite
possibly not done by you) will put over it...
To make the inspector happy you ask the inspector what the inspector
wants to see. As described by you, a 50 foot roll (or as many as you
need) of 4-6" aluminum flashing ("sheet metal") would apparently suit
the inspector, while providing no protection to speak of (and the
delightful possibility that you manage to staple into the cable while
trying to staple the sheet metal over the cable). Of course, if you do
that without getting a specific clearance from the inspector that this
is what he wants to see, he might come back and indicate that he
actually wanted galvanized steel, not aluminum, and make you rip it all
up. At which point using EMT looks a whole lot easier, as well as more
effective.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
bud--
Where some types of wiring is near the edge of a stud and may be hit by
a drywall screw the wiring needs to be protected by a 1/16" steel plate.
I suggest you ask the inspector how heavy the "sheet metal" has to be. I
don't know of a standard electrical item for the protection you need. I
would ask at a company that makes ventilating ducts.
--
bud--
Tim Wescott
Never try to use logic on a bureaucrat. It's a waste of your time, and
it pisses off the bureaucrat.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Josepi
just tubing.
Use some square metal roof conduit designed for the job. It will probably
stick up and not have anything stapled on top of it, Or put the wiring under
the roof sheeting.
"Ecnerwal" <MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote in message
news:MyNameForward-255...@mx01.eternal-september.org...
Charlie E.
You would buy the metal stock from the roofers. They use it to make
up flashing and other transistions.
Charlie
Ken Lowe
The inspector is not crazy, just following the arcane rules like the
good droid he is. You're looking for something like these:
They are typically used to protect cables and copper water pipes from
drywall nails/screws. Probably find them at the local mega hardware
store for not much money -- 19 cents each at the link above.
Like a few others, I'd vote for whatever type of conduit rocks your boat
unless you're sure there will never again be the need for wiring mods.
Ken
Proteus IIV
PLEEEEEEASE TELL US THAT BUILDING IS A PROP IN AN UP COMING MOVIE
PANELS AS FAR AS THE EYES CAN SEE ROOFTOP
LOOSE WIRES RUNNING BARE OVER WOOD
AND ALL THE INSPECTOR HAS TO SAY IS COVER THE CABLES?
THAT IT IS NOT CUSTOMARY IN RESIDENTIAL NOR MILLENNIUM WIRING SCHEMES
IT HAS TO BE A PROP FOR SURE [:/
TWAHAHAHAHA
SARCASTIC OBVIOS LAFF
I WOULDN'T STEP AN INCH INTO IT IF I WERE ANYHING NEAR HUMAN OR ANIMAL
NOT WITHOUT FIRE PROTECTION
WITH THE AMPACITY, MELTING POINT AND A VARIABLE POWER SUPPLY
THE ENTIRE WIRE/CABLE CAN BE RIGGED TO BURN THROUGH THE PANEL AND INTO
THE ROOF
IGNITING THE ENIYRE CEILING BENEATH IT
SKILLED HANDS AND PROPER POWER SETTNGS
AND IT WILL SET OFF A SHOW OF FLAMES AND SPARKS
AT THE FLIP OF A SWITCH AND A TURN OF A KNOB [;o
CALIFORNIA HANH ? [;-)
IAP
Bob E.
> that would be required would be really hard to work with and form over
> the wires.
The roofing contractor chimed in with an observation: conduit will result in
the (poured? sprayed?) foam roof insulation making "mountain ranges" of foam
which results in "pooling" when it rains, giving the roof the look of a lake
district. Not a good thing. That's why low-profile romex (covered with
protection) is the desired wiring method: good rain run-off.
> Be careful that whatever route you go, you have the inspector's
> approval of the materials before you begin, you don't want the problem
> of "Oh, that metal is not heavy enough" to rear its ugly head after
> you've completed the task! 3
The inspector said it needs to be the same gauge as the "nail plates" that
someone here mentioned (1/16" steel plate). That's going to be some heavy
metal...
Thanks.
Proteus IIV
THE INICIAL SMOKE WILL LET YOU KNOW IT'S WERKING
I'D SET IT CONDUIT OR MENTAL RACEWAY
[WIREMOLD BRAND]
I KNOW
SOUNDS BORING NOW BUT JUST WAIT [:)]
IAP
Proteus IIV
REASONING: LAYED OUT ROMEX OVER A WOODEN ROOF
THEN SNAKED THROUGH A HOLE INTO THE INNER WALLS OF THE STRUCTURE IS
NOT A VERY SAFE WIRING PRACTICE
GET SPECIFICS FROM THE AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION OR A PREFESSIONAL
CONSULTANT VERSED IN THE NEC AND USA WIRE SAFETY CODES
THE INSPECTORS ASSESSMENT IS FLAWED ! ! !
THEY DO NOT CALL THAT MAINS WIRING IN THE US
IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WIRING THE SERVICE ENTRANCE ACROSS THE ROOF
THEN DOWN TO THE DISTRIBUTION PANEL IN THE BUILDINGS INTERIOR
IT IS BEST TO LENGTH IT OVER THE ROOF IN PROPER CONDUIT
I WOULD USE AN INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH CHASE TO N FRO EACH PANEL
NOTHING MORE FOR NOW
BUT - SEEK HELP IF INSUFFICIENT
> IAP
Rich.
From the 2008 edition of the NEC:
300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage ...
(A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.
(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or
raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists,
rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole
is not less than 32 mm (1ź in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member.
Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be
protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or
bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and
width installed to cover the area of the wiring.
Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal
conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid non-metallic conduit, or
electrical metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1/16 in.)
thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw
penetration shall be permitted.
There is no provision to exempt type AC cable ("bx") from the nail-plate
protection requirements.
mpm
It is a foam roof now, but what might it be in the future?
Perhaps the inspector (and the local code) is looking out for the next
guy who owns the property?
Why not just use outdoor RIGID conduit?
Is there a huge difference is price? More than a couple hundred??
At least that way, if you ever had to replace or up-size those
conductors, you could just pull it.
Or course, I don't know if rigit conduit surrounded by foam would have
any thermal or other deleterious effects on the foam.
I somewhat doubt it. But worth checking if you go that route.
-mpm
-mpm
Proteus VII
YES THE USE OF CONDUIT HAS ADVANTAGES
THE PROJECT SOUNDS LIKE IT SHOULD USE EVERY ELECTRICAL ADVANTAGE
THEY MAY NEED TO ADD A FEATURE OR UPGRADE IN THE FUTURE AS WELL
BX COVERED ON A FOAM ROOF IS NOT THAT BAD
BUT
IT IS STILL VULNERABLE TO SCREW AND NAILGUN DAMAGE IF CAUTION IS NOT
EXERCISED
A PROPER WIRING / CIRCUIT LAY OUT DIAGRAM SHOULD BE DRAWN OUT KEPT AND
FILED
IAP
JosephKK
Wow. Foam roof and EMT vs romex, i would take a really serious look
at EMT (and perhaps simple conductors instead of romex).
JosephKK
If the romex is already in, just add the "shields" using raceway
components.
Proteus VII
PROBABLY SOME PRE-FABRICATED DISPOSABLE BUILDING
IAP
Charlie E.
Actually, thinking about what he is doing, i would be real tempted to
go with something solider, like rigid, instead of EMT...
John Fields
wrote:
---
EMT _is_ rigid: "Electric Metallic Tubing."
Google is your friend.
---
JF
tm
"John Fields" <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:b3g576hu01h5pevbf...@4ax.com...
Rigid Metallic Tubing is different from EMT. Rigid is threaded and heavier.
tm
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
PROTEUS VII
> "John Fields" <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b3g576hu01h5pevbf...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
> > wrote:
>
> >>On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:20:09 -0700,
>
> >>>On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:25:00 -0700, Bob E. <besp...@invalid.tv> wrote:
>
> >>>>> You might ask him how sheet metal, which staples can penetrate,
> >>>>> will protect the romex from nails. The real requirement may be that
> >>>>> you will need to run it in steel conduit.
> >>>>> Art
>
> >>>>There is no logic to the declarations of building inspectors. He says if
> >>>>we
> >>>>choose to use romex (our option), we must cover it with metal strips
> >>>>wherever
> >>>>it is exposed.
>
> >>>>Another option is to use armored (MX) cable or EMT conduit. Romex seems
> >>>>the
> >>>>simplest if we can find a simple metal strap to cover it.
>
> >>>>Thanks.
>
> >>>Wow. Foam roof and EMT vs romex, i would take a really serious look
> >>>at EMT (and perhaps simple conductors instead of romex).
>
> >>Actually, thinking about what he is doing, i would be real tempted to
> >>go with something solider, like rigid, instead of EMT...
>
> > ---
> > EMT _is_ rigid: "Electric Metallic Tubing."
>
> Rigid Metallic Tubing is different from EMT. Rigid is threaded and heavier.
>
> tm
>
AND WATERTIGHT
IAP
VWWall
which is similar to iron pipe in dimensions and wall thickness.
--
Virg Wall, P.E.
Charlie E.
Hi John,
Not really. Rigid is a lot thicker and harder to work with than EMT,
but it lasts literally forever if not physically damaged. EMT will
dent if you look at it sideways... ;-)
Charlie
life imitates life
I doubt seriously that his application would outstrip the strength of
regular EMT. Just plan and install it AND the 'strips' correctly.
life imitates life
wrote:
What? "Cheap Chinese" EMT and Superman looking at it?
Jamie
No it is not.
rigid is like water pipe..
Jamie
Actually, you don't need to look it at side ways for it to get dented,
we get it delivered that way, or at least that's what the guys lead me
onto believing!
Rich.
"John Fields" <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:b3g576hu01h5pevbf...@4ax.com...
> ---
> EMT _is_ rigid: "Electric Metallic Tubing."
No, emt is 1/16" thick and uses fittings, while rigid is 1/8" thick and is
threaded.
JosephKK
<jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
John F., there is significant wall thickness differences between EMT,
IMC, and GRC. NOT the same. For more see NEC articles 358 EMT, 342
IMC, and 344 RMC. Or use your favorite search engine with the added
info i just provided.
Randy Roentgen
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:40:43 -0500, John Fields
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:20:09 -0700,
>
> >>>On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:25:00 -0700, Bob E. <besp...@invalid.tv> wrote:
>
> >>>>> You might ask him how sheet metal, which staples can penetrate,
> >>>>> will protect the romex from nails. The real requirement may be that
> >>>>> you will need to run it in steel conduit.
> >>>>> Art
>
> >>>>There is no logic to the declarations of building inspectors. He says if we
> >>>>choose to use romex (our option), we must cover it with metal strips wherever
> >>>>it is exposed.
>
> >>>>Another option is to use armored (MX) cable or EMT conduit. Romex seems the
> >>>>simplest if we can find a simple metal strap to cover it.
>
> >>>>Thanks.
>
> >>>Wow. Foam roof and EMT vs romex, i would take a really serious look
> >>>at EMT (and perhaps simple conductors instead of romex).
>
> >>Actually, thinking about what he is doing, i would be real tempted to
> >>go with something solider, like rigid, instead of EMT...
>
> >---
> >EMT _is_ rigid: "Electric Metallic Tubing."
>
> >Google is your friend.
>
> >---
> >JF
>
> John F., there is significant wall thickness differences between EMT,
> IMC, and GRC. NOT the same. For more see NEC articles 358 EMT, 342
> IMC, and 344 RMC. Or use your favorite search engine with the added
> info i just provided.
Bob E seems to have left the discussion.I Hope he uses coded mAterials
and the proper conduit for the run he is attempting.... The
engineering machine seems to have gotten into a piss match with the
inspector.
I did get it's smarts revolving the serviced entrance being the
location n use.Why did he even have to ask?
Who runs bare Cable, UF or Romex over a wooden surface, wasn't it
outlawed in the electrical safety code updates.
RR
Randy Roentgen
Specifically Romex, UF ect. for Exterior Locations is a No No..
The Exception being Temporary Wiring for Lighting et al.
RR
John Fields
wrote:
---
Yup, you're right.
Thanks for the reality check. :-)
---
>EMT will dent if you look at it sideways... ;-)
---
Well...
---
JF
bud--
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> Charlie E. wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:40:43 -0500, John Fields
>
> >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:20:09 -0700,
EMT is widely used in the electrical trade. It is adequate for almost
all uses.
Rigid is not used very often.
There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
be reasonable protection.
I don't see how any of these, in particular PVC or EMT, would be any
problem in the OP's application.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT), bud-- <bud...@isp.com>
>wrote:
>
>>EMT is widely used in the electrical trade. It is adequate for almost
>>all uses.
>>
>>Rigid is not used very often.
>>
>>There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
>>- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
>>
>>None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
>>Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
>>be reasonable protection.
>>
>>I don't see how any of these, in particular PVC or EMT, would be any
>>problem in the OP's application.
>
>I know it is the law but I never really understood how RNC (PVC) is
>protection against a screw gun or a nail.
Deflects the nail? Contains the fire? ;-)
Randy Roentgen
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT), bud-- <budn...@isp.com>
> wrote:
>
> >EMT is widely used in the electrical trade. It is adequate for almost
> >all uses.
>
> >Rigid is not used very often.
>
> >There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
> >- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
>
> >None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
> >Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
> >be reasonable protection.
>
> >I don't see how any of these, in particular PVC or EMT, would be any
> >problem in the OP's application.
>
> protection against a screw gun or a nail.
The law on electrical safety codes sometimes Generalizes terms and
applications., on that case a general application will require
separate added adheres to meet All The Safety Requirements.
Experience dictates that common sense and a eye for detail as you
express here is better than just a General Safety Rule of Thumb.
One item in a Job List may compromise another and it is back to the
drawing board if A Quick Reference Guide is not available...I suspect
the OP has come here for that.
RR
JosephKK
wrote:
>On Aug 23, 6:32 pm, Jamie
><jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
>> Charlie E. wrote:
>> > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:40:43 -0500, John Fields
>> > <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
>> >>wrote:
>>
<snip>
>> >>JF
>>
>> > Hi John,
>> > Not really. Rigid is a lot thicker and harder to work with than EMT,
>> > but it lasts literally forever if not physically damaged. EMT will
>> > dent if you look at it sideways... ;-)
>>
>> > Charlie
>>
>> Actually, you don't need to look it at side ways for it to get dented,
>> we get it delivered that way, or at least that's what the guys lead me
>> onto believing!
>
>EMT is widely used in the electrical trade. It is adequate for almost
>all uses.
It sure is, inside buildings. Once you go outside it tends to be RMC
(aka GRC). Though rigid PVC (aka RNC) is quite common also.
>
>Rigid is not used very often.
My experience is different.
>
>There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
>- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
I hardly ever see that used.
>
>None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
>Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
>be reasonable protection.
If you want to get specific about the case i can look it up in my
copy. I have 2005 here at home and 2008 at work.
Tom Horne
Randy
Type UF cable, that is Sunlight resistant, is perfectly acceptable
outdoors. It is very commonly used under decks, behind gutters &
downspouts, and anywhere else were it's appearance is acceptable to
the owner and it is not subjected to physical damage from such things
as materials handling, lawn care equipment, motor vehicle movement and
so fourth. Multi conductor type UF is only available as sunlight
resistant so that is seldom an issue. Single conductor type UF is
only intended for use underground or in raceway when above ground and
is not presently manufactured in sizes smaller than four American Wire
Gage. You are correct in saying that Romex, or any other brand of
Type NM cable for that matter is not permitted outdoors but running it
inside a roofing assembly does not make it an outdoor use.
--
Tom Horne
bud--
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT), bud-- <budn...@isp.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Aug 23, 6:32 pm, Jamie
> ><jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> Charlie E. wrote:
> >> > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:40:43 -0500, John Fields
> >> > <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:40:48 -0700, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
> >> >>wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >> >>JF
>
> >> > Hi John,
> >> > Not really. Rigid is a lot thicker and harder to work with than EMT,
> >> > but it lasts literally forever if not physically damaged. EMT will
> >> > dent if you look at it sideways... ;-)
>
> >> > Charlie
>
> >> Actually, you don't need to look it at side ways for it to get dented,
> >> we get it delivered that way, or at least that's what the guys lead me
> >> onto believing!
>
> >EMT is widely used in the electrical trade. It is adequate for almost
> >all uses.
>
> It sure is, inside buildings. Once you go outside it tends to be RMC
> (aka GRC). Though rigid PVC (aka RNC) is quite common also.
>
you are near the ground where the pipe may be hit by cars.
>
> >Rigid is not used very often.
>
> My experience is different.
>
I seldom saw rigid on the construction projects I was on. It is good
for some uses, like hazardous - gas stations, refineries....
Digging out a construction estimator, rigid is about twice the cost,
installed, as EMT.
>
> >There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
> >- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
>
> I hardly ever see that used.
>
>
>
> >None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
> >Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
> >be reasonable protection.
>
> If you want to get specific about the case i can look it up in my
> copy. I have 2005 here at home and 2008 at work.
>
No need to look it up - I know what the NEC says. It is what gfretwell
posted, which is the same as what I said.
--
bud--
bud--
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT), bud-- <budn...@isp.com>
> wrote:
>
> >all uses.
>
> >Rigid is not used very often.
>
> >There is conduit that is between rigid and EMT in wall thickness - IMC
> >- intermediate metal conduit. It is probably used more than rigid.
>
> >None of these need nail plates when they are near the edge of a stud.
> >Neither dies rigid PVC conduit. Apparently the NEC considers them to
> >be reasonable protection.
>
> >I don't see how any of these, in particular PVC or EMT, would be any
> >problem in the OP's application.
>
> protection against a screw gun or a nail.
PVC does seem somewhat less protective. A drywall mechanic would
probably be smart enough to stop and relocate when the screw did not
drive in. Would be interesting what the relative resistance is for
nail guns between EMT and PVC.
Bottom line is if there were dead bodies the NEC would have changed.
--
bud--
bud--
> > RR
>
> Randy
> Type UF cable, that is Sunlight resistant, is perfectly acceptable
> outdoors. It is very commonly used under decks, behind gutters &
> downspouts, and anywhere else were it's appearance is acceptable to
> the owner and it is not subjected to physical damage from such things
> as materials handling, lawn care equipment, motor vehicle movement and
> so fourth. Multi conductor type UF is only available as sunlight
> resistant so that is seldom an issue. Single conductor type UF is
> only intended for use underground or in raceway when above ground and
> is not presently manufactured in sizes smaller than four American Wire
> Gage. You are correct in saying that Romex, or any other brand of
> Type NM cable for that matter is not permitted outdoors but running it
> inside a roofing assembly does not make it an outdoor use.
> --
> Tom Horne
The usual good information from Tom.
The usual bad information from Randy, aka Proteus, aka Roy, aka Roy
Quijano.
--
bud--
Randy Roentgen
Yawnnnn... oh Budkins get a life.., Everyone is Roykins to you.
You sound just like the Trolls that accosted this group..He owe you
something?
RR
Randy Roentgen
I don't want to start a pissing match over this, but It is illegal for
any outdoor use in major cities, you country folk and rural or
suburban home owners wouldn't know this.
It is hilarious the way they drape it over the sides of their homes.,
like it is ok.
RR
Randy Roentgen
Actually I have it from good authority that they have Proteus on
LockDown doing surveilannce on the ISS and some thermal imagery on
some classified locations, probably not on earth...
Roy is a mystery, as far as I know...best left alone unless you want
to see hardcore G-men in action :)
RR
Tom Horne
OK. So don't start anything. Just site two major city codes, other
than Chicago and environs which essentially forbid all cable, that
forbid the use of exterior UF.
--
Tom Horne
PROTEUS
MR ROENTGEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE
PROBABLY HALFWAY THROUGH THA SKY GOING HOME
AT THE MOMENT
TOM FOOLERY IS NOT YOUR STRONG SUIT
STOP TRYING TO BE FUNNY
I AM NOT A NEC CHEAT MACHINE
YOU HUMANS BREAK ALL SORTS OF RULES
EVEN JUDICIIAL LAWS AND OTHER CODES OF CONDUCT
IF YOU WANT TO KEEP USING UF OR ANY NM CABLE OUTDOORS
ATTACHED AND RUNNING INTO YOU PROPERTY BARE AS IS
THEN KEEP USING IT ON YOUR EXTERIORS
IT IS YOUR PROPERTY VALUES THAT WILL DECLINE
NOT MINE
I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY IN USE OUTDOORS IN BEVERLY HILLS CALIFORNIA
NOR OTHER UPSCALE NEIGHBORHOODS IN YOUR US OF A
WHETHER IT IS JUST GOOD TASTE CLASS OR ABIDING BY A CODE
IS IRRELEVANT
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU' ARE TRYING TO START SOMETHING WITH THIS QUESTION
OR YOU JUST LACK GOOD TASTE
DON'T BOTHER ME AGAIN WITH THIS NONSENSE TOM
IF I POST CODE INFORMATION FOR YOU
EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL ASK ME TO POST RESPONSES WITH THE VIOLATED
CODE INFO
IAP