Is any of this even cost effective yet?
Jane_Galt
being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
--
- Jane Galt
"Remember that there is no such dichotomy as 'human rights' versus 'property
rights.' No human rights can exist without property rights. Since material
goods are produced by the mind and effort of individual men, and are needed
to sustain their lives, if the producer does not own the result of his
effort, he does not own his life. To deny property rights means to turn men
into property owned by the state. Whoever claims the 'right' to
'redistribute' the wealth produced by others is claiming the 'right' to treat
human beings as chattel." -- Ayn Rand
Jim Rojas
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>
>
>
Don't waste you time with solar. I use RPM technology to generate 3KW
for under $1000, 24/7, rain or shine.
Jim Rojas
sno
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>
>
>
thing....the aprox number of years is relatively easy to
calculate...figure out your fuel/electric costs for a year...and then
figure out the costs for a solar installation at your
location...dividing will tell you aprox how many years the payback will
take...I have been told/heard that until solar goes under one dollar a
watt an installation is not cost effective except in some special
situations....
This is for photovoltaic, hot air/liquid panels for heating or hot
water are a different story....in most locations can be reasonably cost
effective....
hope helps...have fun...sno
--
Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.
m II
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
The bigger panels, around here, are now starting to approach 3 dollars a
watt. The biggest problem and cost is the storage. Batteries are heavy
and expensive. The payback time takes years, if ever, if you include
regular battery replacement. Even with a grid tie system, it takes
forever to break even.
I do it as a learning thing. That, and the fact I can gloat when the
grid shuts down. A freezer full of frozen food helps to offset battery
costs.
I've learned I can't use the microwave (130 amp battery draw). You have
to relearn how to cook and use gas or propane. A way of keeping the
luxuries is the use of a big healthy generator running a few hours a
day. You can get your cooking or laundry done and have a battery charger
boosting storage while it's running. I've quit using the electric dryer
and went back to a clothes line.
mike
Jane_Galt
Jane_Galt
> On 12/18/2010 2:06 PM, Jane_Galt wrote:
>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>>
>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>
>>
>>
> The length of time you consider "cost effective" is a personal
> thing....the aprox number of years is relatively easy to
> calculate...figure out your fuel/electric costs for a year...and then
> figure out the costs for a solar installation at your
> location...dividing will tell you aprox how many years the payback will
> take...I have been told/heard that until solar goes under one dollar a
> watt an installation is not cost effective except in some special
> situations....
So when will THAT be?
Jane_Galt
> On 10-12-18 12:06 PM, Jane_Galt wrote:
>
>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>>
>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>
>
> The bigger panels, around here, are now starting to approach 3 dollars a
> watt. The biggest problem and cost is the storage. Batteries are heavy
> and expensive. The payback time takes years, if ever, if you include
> regular battery replacement. Even with a grid tie system, it takes
> forever to break even.
One big problem is that the power company doesnt have to pay you the same,
when you send the power back to the grid, as what you paid them for it.
That stinks.
> I do it as a learning thing. That, and the fact I can gloat when the
> grid shuts down. A freezer full of frozen food helps to offset battery
> costs.
>
> I've learned I can't use the microwave (130 amp battery draw). You have
> to relearn how to cook and use gas or propane. A way of keeping the
> luxuries is the use of a big healthy generator running a few hours a
> day. You can get your cooking or laundry done and have a battery charger
> boosting storage while it's running. I've quit using the electric dryer
> and went back to a clothes line.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
--
z
news:Xns9E527B20E3052J...@216.196.97.142:
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right
> now?
>
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>
>
>
It depends on how much you pay for electicity now. If your power company
started charging 50cents a KWH or higher then maybe it'd be worth it.
Many of us in this group don't have ready access to the grid, so while
expensive, solar, wind and hydroelectric are better than nothing.
I can tell you these do pay off if the alternative is buying fuel for a
generator ;)
-Zachary in Oregon
Curbie
<Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote:
>With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
>being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
>about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>
>I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>
There is a lot personal considerations that goes into evaluating an
alternate-energy system, environmental concerns or self-sufficiency
concerns may have personal value to you and trying guess what the
price of energy will be in 30-40 years, energy costs will be higher,
but how much higher will effect the return-on-investment numbers also.
It's hard to compare an energy system without something to compare it
to, and here again, who knows what the future will bring for grid or
any other source of energy, so much depends on your view of the
future.
Curbie
Curbie
>for under $1000, 24/7, rain or shine.
Please tell me your not advocating an over-unity system that defies
the laws of physics as there are currently known.
Curbie
sno
> sno<s...@opelc.com> wrote :
>
>> On 12/18/2010 2:06 PM, Jane_Galt wrote:
>>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>>>
>>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The length of time you consider "cost effective" is a personal
>> thing....the aprox number of years is relatively easy to
>> calculate...figure out your fuel/electric costs for a year...and then
>> figure out the costs for a solar installation at your
>> location...dividing will tell you aprox how many years the payback will
>> take...I have been told/heard that until solar goes under one dollar a
>> watt an installation is not cost effective except in some special
>> situations....
>
> So when will THAT be?
>
>
>
something you should get before you do anything...many utilities offer
them for free....they will use a blower door to find any leaks....and
thermal cameras to determine where insulation needs to be improved...and
will advise you on what to do....
Some people have reported up to 30 percent decrease in costs of energy
after audits and following recommendations....some insulation and
blocking leaks are relatively inexpensive...in most cases you can do
yourself...and payback can be in very little time....
have fun....sno
Jim Rojas
> Jim Rojas<jro...@tech-man.com> wrote :
>
>> Jane_Galt wrote:
>>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>>>
>>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Don't waste you time with solar. I use RPM technology to generate 3KW
>> for under $1000, 24/7, rain or shine.
>>
>> Jim Rojas
>>
>
> What is it?
>
RPM is generating power using pulse width circuits, AC/DC motors and
generators.
Before you start getting into any type of power generation, you need to
stop the nonsense of trying to sell back any excess power to the grid.
Once you do that, your mind will open to offsetting your usage, rather
than trying to make a few pennies to offset your startup costs.
Start off small like I did. My first RPM generated 600 watts. Then I
connected it to the grid. Once I saw the reduction in my bill, I used
the savings to buy more parts to generate more power. Now than I am up
to 3KW, My electric bill is one two thirds of what it use to be. My goal
is to get to 10KW, so I can run my central air in the summer months.
Once I get to the 10KW range, I can switch on my auto power transfer
switch and only use the grid when my system is down for maintenance, or
if it totally fails.
Jim Rojas
Morris Dovey
> sno <s...@opelc.com> wrote :
>> The length of time you consider "cost effective" is a personal
>> thing....the aprox number of years is relatively easy to
>> calculate...figure out your fuel/electric costs for a year...and then
>> figure out the costs for a solar installation at your
>> location...dividing will tell you aprox how many years the payback will
>> take...I have been told/heard that until solar goes under one dollar a
>> watt an installation is not cost effective except in some special
>> situations....
>
> So when will THAT be?
It's an already-solved problem. The web page at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
shows an early 2007 heating installation that paid for itself before the
end of 2009. If you click on the photo you get a page with installation
photos.
The "when" is pretty much up to you.
--
Morris Dovey
Jim Rojas
Overunity?
Jim Rojas
Curbie
>water are a different story....in most locations can be reasonably cost
>effective....
I couldn't agree more with this IMPORTANT notion, whether it's energy
for domestic heating, or energy for electricity, it all takes money
from the same pocket, and it seems to me finding the best energy
return-on-investment would be the best idea, regardless of whether
that energy is in the form of heat or electricity.
Curbie
Curbie
wrote:
>Overunity?
hypothetical machines that produce more work or energy than they
consume.
Bruce Gordon
> I've learned I can't use the microwave (130 amp battery draw). You have
> to relearn how to cook and use gas or propane.
You just need to rethink your Battery/Inverter voltage decision. If you
went to 24 Vdc, your current draw would be 65 Amps, and at 48 Vdc would
be 32.5 Amps. when running inverters with power draws greater than 1Kw,
you really need to move to 24 Vdc minimum, and for 3-4Kw, 48 Vdc, is
mandatory....
--
Bruce in Alaska add path before the @ for email
Josepi
"Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in message What is it?
Josepi
Me thinks this guy promotes OU machines or plans on Youtube in a mass
marketing scam.
Ask him how Searl and Lou Brits are doing.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:od7qg65m423l31cj7...@4ax.com...
Josepi
larger scale. A neighbour is installing a 120kW system right now.
Batteries are not allowed and the systems stay fairly simple.
They must be on the roof
There cannot be any other alternate sources included.
I believe most experienced and educated users will tell you the break even
point would be about 40 cents / kWh to even pay the interest on the money
investment loss and make it possible to ever get a payback. Some will tell
you the payback is 6-8 years at 10 cents/kWh but most can't multiply two
numbers together or tell you the difference between power and energy.
Solar thermal is a different beast, cheaper and payback times are much
quicker.
"Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in message
news:Xns9E528460330D6J...@216.196.97.142...
One big problem is that the power company doesnt have to pay you the same,
when you send the power back to the grid, as what you paid them for it.
- Jane Galt
hubops
>In Ontario they pay you 80.2 cents per kWh and makes a good investment on a
>larger scale. A neighbour is installing a 120kW system right now.
>Batteries are not allowed and the systems stay fairly simple.
>They must be on the roof
>There cannot be any other alternate sources included.
I think the installation needs to be 10 kw or less
to qualify for the 80 cent microFIT pricing. ?
Your neighbours 120 kw system will still collect him
a premium taxpayer-assisted price for his green power
.. but not 80 cents.
The rules are changing, though. I stand to be corrected.
John T.
Jim Rojas
120KW equals what? $2 million dollars in solar panels?...not a real
world solution for the average person is it? Most people are more
comfortable spending no more than they would pay in a year to the
utility company. ($100 a month x 12 = $1200 a year) My setup cost under
that, and I am in my third year. So my return on investment was 2.5 years.
We are not trying to shift the wealth from a big utility to a
manufacturer of solar panels, but become more self sufficient at a
reasonable cost.
I was told by my utility company that I could not connect my RPM to the
grid. I would have to have it installed by a licensed electrician.
That's true only if I planned to sell power back to the grid. Since I
have no interest in collecting pennies, I told them I would find another
solution. Then I find out grid tie inverters do just that. Then they
tell me I am limited to 5KW. Anything more would require expensive
permits, and engineers drawnings. So I will stop at 5KW, and build a 2nd
unit to provide me the other 5KW if needed. I will alternate their use,
and let them know that the second unit is a backup...PERFECTLY LEGAL.
They tried to get me to shutdown my 3KW unit twice. But since I proved
to them my RPM has islanding protection, they stopped harassing me about
2 years ago.
Jim Rojas
Curbie
the laws of physics as there are currently known.
that defies the laws of physics as they're are currently known???
Simple question, why is the answer so elusive???
Curbie
ghio
Paid 10k for solar, power company wanted 36k to connect me to the
grid. 26k ahead the day I turned the system on. Sounds good to me.
Jane_Galt
> "Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in
> news:Xns9E527B20E3052J...@216.196.97.142:
>
>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right
>> now?
>>
>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>
>>
>>
>
> It depends on how much you pay for electicity now. If your power company
> started charging 50cents a KWH or higher then maybe it'd be worth it.
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15305162?source=commented-business
Looks like 4.5-9 cents a kwh
"The first tier is figured as 500 x 0.03125 to yield 15.63 kwh at 4.6 cents
per kwh, costing 72 cents.
The second tier is figured as 107 x 0.03125 to yield 3.34 at 9 cents per
kwh, costing 30 cents.
This was approved by the Colorado Public Utilities Commission last year
when it approved Xcel's $128 million rate hike and the two-tiered system.
Read more: Xcel's complicated rate changes jolt some customers - The Denver
Post http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15305162?source=commented-
business#ixzz18Vs23o8l
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content:
http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse "
> Many of us in this group don't have ready access to the grid, so while
> expensive, solar, wind and hydroelectric are better than nothing.
>
> I can tell you these do pay off if the alternative is buying fuel for a
> generator ;)
>
> -Zachary in Oregon
>
I guess. If I was really rich and buying a survival retreat in a rural
area...
Jane_Galt
> On 12/18/2010 2:59 PM, Jane_Galt wrote:
>> sno<s...@opelc.com> wrote :
>>
>>> On 12/18/2010 2:06 PM, Jane_Galt wrote:
>>>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>>>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
>>>> I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right
now?
>>>>
>>>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The length of time you consider "cost effective" is a personal
>>> thing....the aprox number of years is relatively easy to
>>> calculate...figure out your fuel/electric costs for a year...and then
>>> figure out the costs for a solar installation at your
>>> location...dividing will tell you aprox how many years the payback will
>>> take...I have been told/heard that until solar goes under one dollar a
>>> watt an installation is not cost effective except in some special
>>> situations....
>>
>> So when will THAT be?
>>
>>
>>
> Who knows...your guess is as good as mine.....a home energy audit is
> something you should get before you do anything...many utilities offer
> them for free....
No Xcel here in Denver. I think they want like $150.
> they will use a blower door to find any leaks....and
> thermal cameras to determine where insulation needs to be improved...and
> will advise you on what to do....
>
> Some people have reported up to 30 percent decrease in costs of energy
> after audits and following recommendations....some insulation and
> blocking leaks are relatively inexpensive...in most cases you can do
> yourself...and payback can be in very little time....
>
> have fun....sno
>
--
Jane_Galt
>>
>>
> Who knows...your guess is as good as mine.....a home energy audit is
> something you should get before you do anything...many utilities offer
> them for free....they will use a blower door to find any leaks....and
> thermal cameras to determine where insulation needs to be improved...and
> will advise you on what to do....
>
> Some people have reported up to 30 percent decrease in costs of energy
> after audits and following recommendations....some insulation and
> blocking leaks are relatively inexpensive...in most cases you can do
> yourself...and payback can be in very little time....
>
> have fun....sno
>
I just called Xcel about energy audits.
They have $60, $90 and $120 ones.
The $90 one adds a pressure test to the house and the $120 one adds IR to
that.
Curbie
>Looks like 4.5-9 cents a kwh
The DOE has Colorado at $0.1176 per kWh for residential???
http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html
Curbie
Jane_Galt
Jim Rojas
Let me get this straight...By your definition, a person running any
device that doesn't pollute, or line the pockets of some rich fat
corporation, considered an overunity device?
Jim Rojas
Jim Rojas
Excellent...Good for you.
Jim Rojas
Jim Rojas
RPM is a combination of technologies that have been around for a very
long time. This is all hands on stuff...no plug & play here.
a PWM (pulse width modulator) allows a DC motor, or a set of trigger
coils to spin at much higher frequency speeds than of 60Hz limitation
now has. A VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) can be used on 220-480 AC
motors to accomplish the same thing. So a DC motor rated at 24VDC
1800RPM 60Hz can spin at speeds upwards to 10,000RPM and 300+Hz. This
gives the motor more low end torque, while consuming the same or less
energy. The key here is torque.
So imagine the PWM motor directly attached to a 50-100 pound flywheel,
spinning at let's say 1000 RPM. You can then use a series of
magnetically driven pulleys to spin a series of AC and/or DC motors at
same RPM or higher by making different pulley sizes. The result is much
less drag, and the ability to compensate for load drag using a auto
servo circuit to keep RPM constant under heavier loads.
Watch this video to see the magdrive in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldu5l8_Ips&feature=related
This video will explain in full detail how to build one:
This video shows you how to build a grid tie inverter with off the shelf
parts:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=PTranCypress#p/u/0/12E6bQ1OksU
Here is a video on what a Bedini circuit is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA
I took several different ideas, and made it work for my RPM setup. What
I did on my setup was to use the Bedini approach to run & charge 2 banks
of batteries that only run my PWM.
My PWM is run with the Bedini style circuit. Battery Bank A (24v 18AH)
runs my PWM. The Bedini then charges Battery Bank B (24v 18AH). I then
use a DPDT relay, and an mechanical appliance timer to swap batteries.
Bank A drives the PWM, Bank B charges, then after an hour Bank B then
drives the PWM, and Bank A charges.
Jim Rojas
Jim Rojas
There is nothing hypothetical about using what you been taught in a
different way.
I looked at the Bedini circuit, and said it is a good idea. But to
expect it to create loads of power on the fly required a slightly
different approach. I saw the Bedini circuit as a piece of the puzzle.
I then saw Hatem's Cog Wheel as another piece that can fit.
By taking parts of this and the other ideas, my RPM still outperforms a
$10K solar setup hands down. My RPM can grow for a few dollars, and runs
24/7.
You can use standard car alternators and modify them to generate loads
of usable power. The key is not to drive you devices into oblivion. We
all know the faster you spin an alternator, the more amps you get. My
PWM can easily drive a car alternator to 10,000 RPM. But how long will
it last before the windings go up in smoke and has to be rebuilt? A few
days? Why not just run it at 1000-1500 RPM so we can easily get a few
years out of it? Why not just use 300amp windings and rectifiers? at
idle speed, that's 150 amps! (1800 watts)
The same goes with grid tie inverters...sure it says it's rated at 250
watts, but if it constantly gets that 250 watts 24/7, it will burn out
quickly.
The key is to run everything slower, and allow your inverters to work at
50-60 percent load max. So, I have 2 grid tie circuits each supposedly
capable at providing 3000 watts each, running at 50 percent load for the
past 2 years. I have yet to replace a single component. My grid tie heat
sink is slightly warm to the touch. Try that with a 250 watt grid tie
unit. I bet the fan runs the entire time and can get really hot!
Jim Rojas
m II
True enough. My only excuse is that all I had available at the time were
12 volt inverters, including a 3000 watt unit. An advantage to 12 volts
is the plentiful source of automotive stuff which can be adapted. The
mp3 car stereo sounds great. In an emergency I could also boost the
battery bank from the car.
If I were starting from scratch, I'd probably try to go with 36 volts.
mike
Curbie
>device that doesn't pollute, or line the pockets of some rich fat
>corporation, considered an overunity device?
words, this isn't very complicated, that wasn't my definition, it's
the scientific definition; try wikipedia for overunity.
But get this straight... by my definition a SCAM is plan to dupe
people out of their time or money, and ALL overunity plans are flat
out scams that are physically impossible in terms of our current
understanding of the laws of physics.
A person has asked an honest question about a real alternative-energy
device and your response was "Don't waste you time" with real, do your
magic plan, only problem is, you won't give a straight answer as to
HOW your magic plan generates energy.
So how about skipping the gibberish, "double talk" and links to other
people's gibberish and, "double talk" and give us a straight clear
answer, where does your plan's energy come from, the grid, mars,
push-pull ward-farce, Richardson, thin air - what???
Now, let's take a look at your "rich fat corporation" non-sense, can
you explain why your "rich fat corporations" haven't built devices
from the these internet links and gotten richer and fatter, they all
have to be greedy enough???
Curbie
Jim Rojas
Just follow the threads more closely. You will find others have already
asked the same questions, but more politely.
Jim Rojas
Jim Rojas
I have no financial incentive on any posts I offer here, other than
trying to help others to save money. I offer what I have tried and
tested for free.
I always use my real name and my real email address in every one of my
posts. Sure I am new to this group, but if you do a quick Google search,
you will find I have been posting on newsgroups since 1996.
Jim Rojas
Jim Rojas
Fat rich corporations currently use hydro electric, nuclear, and coal
for decades. Hydro electric destroys eco systems, nuclear creates steam
using deadly radiation, coal pollutes, and drives our CO2 levels through
the roof.
Geothermal plants like in Greenland could make all the current electric
plants obsolete, and much cheaper to run. But cheaper to run means they
would be forced to drop rates...that's counterproductive in a capitalist
system. We will just have to wait until gas prices hit $8 a gallon like
it is now in many parts of Europe, in order to see any real changes in
this country.
Jim Rojas
Curbie
reading your gibberish, and "double talk" and have read the links to
other people's gibberish and "double talk" and wasted my time there
too.
I have politely asked you give us a straight clear answer on where
does your plan's energy come from, but you've refused to provide a
simple clear answer.
I'm sorry if you soiled your delicate sensibilities, but you're the
one trashing real alternative-energy solutions and advocating
overunity non-sense, you need to grow a set if you insist on
continuing to dupe people with this un-explained pipe-dream, because
it only gets uglier from here.
Now, for the 4th time, where does your device get it's energy???
Curbie
Jim Rojas
I am reposting this again for those of you who missed it...
Jim Rojas
Curbie, I have been married for 30 years. I have no delicate sensibility
left... :)
Jim Rojas
Curbie
>trying to help others to save money. I offer what I have tried and
>tested for free.
>
>I always use my real name and my real email address in every one of my
>posts. Sure I am new to this group, but if you do a quick Google search,
>you will find I have been posting on newsgroups since 1996.
goal was misinformation, scams are scams no matter what the goal is.
We'll keep at this till there's no doubt to any reader that you have
no simple, straight forward answer to this very simple question:
Where does the energy your device produces (or doesn't) come from???
Curbie
Jim Rojas
Curbie...I feel your pain.
Jim Rojas
Josepi
That is correct. He will only obtain 71.3 cents / kWh being over 10kW
http://fit.powerauthority.on.ca/Page.asp?PageID=122&ContentID=10195&SiteNodeID=1098&BL_ExpandID=259
"hubops" <nos...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in message
news:v2eqg6lq0ea32n2a8...@4ax.com...
Jim Rojas
I heard USA utilities pay 1-3 cents per KW. Is this true?
Jim Rojas
Jane_Galt
> It is perpetual motion disguised as a definition avoiding nutbar.
>
>
> "Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in message What is it?
>
>
>
>
Swell.
Jane_Galt
>
> I heard USA utilities pay 1-3 cents per KW. Is this true?
>
> Jim Rojas
>
I just cited 4.5 to 9 cents from Xcel.
Curbie
What pain, oh I get it, you think you've found a clever new way NOT to
give a simple answer to a simple question.
So, tell us for the FIRSTtime; where your device get the energy it
produces???
Curbie
>plants obsolete, and much cheaper to run. But cheaper to run means they
>would be forced to drop rates...that's counterproductive in a capitalist
>system. We will just have to wait until gas prices hit $8 a gallon like
>it is now in many parts of Europe, in order to see any real changes in
>this country.
geothermal activity close to the surface which is rare in the US, but
you still didn't explain why your "rich fat corporations" haven't
built devices from the these internet links and gotten richer and
Does any see a pattern of this guy changing the subject in an effort
not to answer a simple question???
Curbie
Jane_Galt
Jane_Galt
Jane_Galt
m II
So, really now...where does the energy your device produces (or doesn't)
come from??
Are you claiming you are getting more power out than you are putting in?
To me the thing looks like nothing more than a magnetic coupling.
What is the ratio of the power being put IN to the power being put OUT?
mike
Josepi
120kW should cost you about $600k installed, mounted and running.
This is based on $3 per watt of PV panel, racking, cogen inverters under
groups of panels, wiring, permits and labour.
At 8% money fees $600k x 0.08 = $48k per annum interest fees.
120kW of panels at insolation factor (here) of 1155kWh/kW/annum x $0.713/kwh
120kW x 1155 x 0.713 = $98,821 per annum
Definitely a profit to be made at these high rates of incentive!
Obviously government subsidized and without would be a dead loss for any
investor with a calculator. This subsidy has put quite a few large PV panel
manufacturers into business here and our prices have dropped from over
$10/Watt down to $3/Watt for PV panels from all this. Meanwhile the grid has
been getting the boost it needs to deter some grid expansion costs for a few
more years, saving the consumers money and environmental costs, down the
road, also.
"Jim Rojas" <jro...@tech-man.com> wrote in message
news:N3bPo.14120$l9.1...@newsfe07.iad...
120KW equals what? $2 million dollars in solar panels?...not a real
world solution for the average person is it? Most people are more
comfortable spending no more than they would pay in a year to the
utility company. ($100 a month x 12 = $1200 a year) My setup cost under
that, and I am in my third year. So my return on investment was 2.5 years.
We are not trying to shift the wealth from a big utility to a
manufacturer of solar panels, but become more self sufficient at a
reasonable cost.
I was told by my utility company that I could not connect my RPM to the
grid. I would have to have it installed by a licensed electrician.
That's true only if I planned to sell power back to the grid. Since I
have no interest in collecting pennies, I told them I would find another
solution. Then I find out grid tie inverters do just that. Then they
tell me I am limited to 5KW. Anything more would require expensive
permits, and engineers drawnings. So I will stop at 5KW, and build a 2nd
unit to provide me the other 5KW if needed. I will alternate their use,
and let them know that the second unit is a backup...PERFECTLY LEGAL.
They tried to get me to shutdown my 3KW unit twice. But since I proved
to them my RPM has islanding protection, they stopped harassing me about
2 years ago.
Jim Rojas
Josepi
the same as it was last time.
When you mention Bedini and a motor, we all know it is a complete scam.
Bedini has only ever produced a more efficient way of charging and
rejuvenating batteries. Bedini makes no claims to produce more energy than
he puts in or uses. The Bedini energy production is all complete nonsense
and not based on Bedini's accomplishments. He would be insulted and may take
legal action against people using his name. Try Telsa for a SCAM that is
harder be litigated from.
You still have not supplied this group, again, with the source of your
energy. You appear to have very poor knowledge of any energy facts, quoting
this BS repeatedly. Most of the people here know the difference between
power and energy, know what a fornm factor and power factor is (except m
II). I doubt you do either or you would save your nonsense for another
place.
"Jim Rojas" <jro...@tech-man.com> wrote in message
news:BefPo.16752$YC1....@newsfe04.iad...
Josepi
"Jim Rojas" <jro...@tech-man.com> wrote in message
news:ypfPo.59956$wf4....@newsfe05.iad...
Josepi
"Jim Rojas" <jro...@tech-man.com> wrote in message
news:64fPo.14145$Zf2....@newsfe17.iad...
z
news:Xns9E52B251E1912J...@216.196.97.142:
> z <z...@yada.yada.com> wrote :
>
>> "Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in
>> news:Xns9E527B20E3052J...@216.196.97.142:
>>
>>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the
>>> point of being cost effective for running my house in the short
>>> term? I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but
>>> right now?
>>>
>>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It depends on how much you pay for electicity now. If your power
>> company started charging 50cents a KWH or higher then maybe it'd be
>> worth it.
>
> http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15305162?source=commented-busine
> ss
>
> Looks like 4.5-9 cents a kwh
>
> "The first tier is figured as 500 x 0.03125 to yield 15.63 kwh at 4.6
> cents per kwh, costing 72 cents.
>
> The second tier is figured as 107 x 0.03125 to yield 3.34 at 9 cents
> per kwh, costing 30 cents.
>
> This was approved by the Colorado Public Utilities Commission last
> year when it approved Xcel's $128 million rate hike and the two-tiered
> system.
The great thing about making your own power is that you don't have to go
looking up all that stuff. So i'll pass on reading all that crap. I make
my own power -- but I can tell you it costs a heck of a lot more than 9
cents a KWH. But it's mine.
Also you don't have to wait for someone to fix it when it goes bad, so
that's nice.
The downside is that YOU have to go fix it when it fails.. but at least
you have no one else to blame for it ;)
>
>
> Read more: Xcel's complicated rate changes jolt some customers - The
> Denver Post
> http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15305162?source=commented-
> business#ixzz18Vs23o8l Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its
> content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse "
>
>
>> Many of us in this group don't have ready access to the grid, so
>> while expensive, solar, wind and hydroelectric are better than
>> nothing.
>>
>> I can tell you these do pay off if the alternative is buying fuel for
>> a generator ;)
>>
>> -Zachary in Oregon
>>
>
> I guess. If I was really rich and buying a survival retreat in a rural
> area...
>
Or if you grew up here in the boonies maybe. If you were rich you
wouldn't have to worry about buying fuel for your generator.
Plenty of people in rural areas still don't have ready access to power --
even in the USA. My power company wanted around 200,000 dollars to get
power to my house and that was in the early 80's.
Now i'd probably be twice that.
Upside is I can shoot in any direction without worry of hitting a
neighbor and have some of the best salmon & steelhead fishing known to
man within 100 yards of my front porch.
But no pizza delivery .. or high speed interenet .. or microwave ..
but nobody complains if I piss off my porch either ..
so it goes
-zachary
Curbie
Sorry, he chose your honest question to advocate this non-sense.
Curbie
Jim Rojas
> Jim Rojas<jro...@tech-man.com> wrote :
>
>> Curbie wrote:
>>> I HAVE followed these threads closely, I have wasted my time on the
>>> reading your gibberish, and "double talk" and have read the links to
>>> other people's gibberish and "double talk" and wasted my time there
>>> too.
>>>
>>> I have politely asked you give us a straight clear answer on where
>>> does your plan's energy come from, but you've refused to provide a
>>> simple clear answer.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry if you soiled your delicate sensibilities, but you're the
>>> one trashing real alternative-energy solutions and advocating
>>> overunity non-sense, you need to grow a set if you insist on
>>> continuing to dupe people with this un-explained pipe-dream, because
>>> it only gets uglier from here.
>>>
>>> Now, for the 4th time, where does your device get it's energy???
>>>
>>> Curbie
>>
>> I am reposting this again for those of you who missed it...
>>
>>
>> RPM is a combination of technologies that have been around for a very
>>
>> a PWM (pulse width modulator) allows a DC motor, or a set of trigger
>> coils to spin at much higher frequency speeds than of 60Hz limitation
>> now has. A VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) can be used on 220-480 AC
>> motors to accomplish the same thing. So a DC motor rated at 24VDC
>> 1800RPM 60Hz can spin at speeds upwards to 10,000RPM and 300+Hz. This
>> gives the motor more low end torque, while consuming the same or less
>> energy. The key here is torque.
>>
>> So imagine the PWM motor directly attached to a 50-100 pound flywheel,
>> spinning at let's say 1000 RPM. You can then use a series of
>> magnetically driven pulleys to spin a series of AC and/or DC motors at
>> same RPM or higher by making different pulley sizes. The result is much
>> less drag, and the ability to compensate for load drag using a auto
>> servo circuit to keep RPM constant under heavier loads.
>>
>> Watch this video to see the magdrive in action:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldu5l8_Ips&feature=related
>>
>>
>> This video will explain in full detail how to build one:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/profile?annotation_id=annotation_932309&user=MindF
>> reer&feature=iv#p/u/0/TMxkkz2VTGA
>>
>>
>> This video shows you how to build a grid tie inverter with off the shelf
>> parts:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=PTranCypress#p/u/0/12E6bQ1OksU
>>
>>
>> Here is a video on what a Bedini circuit is:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA
>>
>> I took several different ideas, and made it work for my RPM setup. What
>> of batteries that only run my PWM.
>>
>> My PWM is run with the Bedini style circuit. Battery Bank A (24v 18AH)
>> runs my PWM. The Bedini then charges Battery Bank B (24v 18AH). I then
>> use a DPDT relay, and an mechanical appliance timer to swap batteries.
>> Bank A drives the PWM, Bank B charges, then after an hour Bank B then
>> drives the PWM, and Bank A charges.
>>
>> Jim Rojas
>>
>>
>
> Well what drives the whole thing, to PRODUCE ENERGY?
>
Yes. I didn't invent the technology. I just made it work for my needs. I
live on a 1/4 acre lot. So there isn't much room here form large arrays
of any kind.
I can't use solar. I have 2 giant trees that block the sun during its
most effective time.
I can't use wind, because there not enough of it here to make it useful.
I can biodeisel to run a 10KW genset, but the neighbors would complain.
My RPM setup is in a small 8x8 metal shed, under the trees, and doesn't
make much noise. Its somewhere in the low 60db range. If I close the
shed, and stand 20 feet away, I don't hear it running at all. My nearest
neighbor only hears it running if I leave the shed door open.
Jim Rojas
m II
It's one of these free energy motors. One of them is claimed to be
120,000 percent efficient. The inventors of these things are all secret
Trillionaires.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter1.pdf
mike
m II
Brain damage must be a horrible thing. Try running for political office.
Your type is already well established there.
mike
Josepi
Internet places and they all seem to stem from the same problem.
The "scientists" do not understand how to read a meter or understand what
their equipment is really telling them.
They wind a motor with two coils or more on each pole. They create a
feedback circuit that triggers a transistor switch from each pole's second
winding that drives the main coil with a stronger pulse. The motor turns,
usually after being hand started only. The second winding produces sharp
pulsed voltage spikes which they also rectify and feed to a second battery.
They meter the input battery and the output spikes. Now the take the output
spike and multiply the voltage they get (on some cheap meter reading a bad
form factor) time the current (same waveform problem) and voila! Big watts
output for only small input.
And on top of it all they have a turning motor that all the ibeciles think
can turn a huge generator and produce more free energy. Research YouTube and
you will see that every one of these morons have been challenged to make the
circuit self running withot any battery and never give a response.
I am sure these are promoted by the magnet selling companies. The inspiring
videos are made by the original electrical magicians that spoof the idiotic
crowd. You can buy plans to wind a two pole generator on your fingers for
$49 for the 12 page download instruction document in many places. I have
personally had over 2000 of these garbage videos removed from youtube with
the help of a few others.
There may be some pyamid scheme happening here too that suckers buy into and
then have to scam others to recoup the thousands of dollars they have spent.
"Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in message
news:Xns9E52D92898937J...@216.196.97.142...
Jim Rojas
> Well I asked, so explain whatcha got.
>
RPM is a combination of technologies that have been around for a very
long time. This is all hands on stuff...no plug & play here.
a PWM (pulse width modulator) allows a DC motor, or a set of trigger
coils to spin at much higher frequency speeds than of 60Hz limitation
now has. A VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) can be used on 220-480 AC
motors to accomplish the same thing. So a DC motor rated at 24VDC
1800RPM 60Hz can spin at speeds upwards to 10,000RPM and 300+Hz. This
gives the motor more low end torque, while consuming the same or less
energy. The key here is torque.
So imagine the PWM motor directly attached to a 50-100 pound flywheel,
spinning at let's say 1000 RPM. You can then use a series of
magnetically driven pulleys to spin a series of AC and/or DC motors at
same RPM or higher by making different pulley sizes. The result is much
less drag, and the ability to compensate for load drag using a auto
servo circuit to keep RPM constant under heavier loads.
Watch this video to see the magdrive in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldu5l8_Ips&feature=related
This video will explain in full detail how to build one:
This video shows you how to build a grid tie inverter with off the shelf
parts:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=PTranCypress#p/u/0/12E6bQ1OksU
Here is a video on what a Bedini circuit is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA
I took several different ideas, and made it work for my RPM setup. What
I did on my setup was to use the Bedini approach to run & charge 2 banks
Jim Rojas
> man within 100 yards of my front porch.
>
> But no pizza delivery .. or high speed interenet .. or microwave ..
>
> but nobody complains if I piss off my porch either ..
>
> so it goes
>
> -zachary
Curbie would argue that such a place does not really exist... :)
I live in Tampa Bay. 10 minutes from the nearest boat ramp. The waters
here are still clean. Once you get out of the bay, the water is such a
pretty blueish color.
If it wasn't for all the tiger sharks I go out more often. I still get
sea sick for some reason.
Jim Rojas
Jane_Galt
>
> Or if you grew up here in the boonies maybe. If you were rich you
> wouldn't have to worry about buying fuel for your generator.
>
> Plenty of people in rural areas still don't have ready access to power --
> even in the USA. My power company wanted around 200,000 dollars to get
> power to my house and that was in the early 80's.
>
> Now i'd probably be twice that.
Whew.
> Upside is I can shoot in any direction without worry of hitting a
> neighbor
Oh I'm jealous! I want some shootin property some day.
> and have some of the best salmon & steelhead fishing known to
> man within 100 yards of my front porch.
Ohhh!
> But no pizza delivery .. or high speed interenet
Dont they have satellite broadband yet?
>.. or microwave ..
>
> but nobody complains if I piss off my porch either ..
>
> so it goes
Ah but why piss on the porch? LOL
Jane_Galt
z
> z wrote:
>> "Jane_Galt"<Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in
>> news:Xns9E52B251E1912J...@216.196.97.142:
>>
>>> z<z...@yada.yada.com> wrote :
>>>
>>>> "Jane_Galt"<Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in
>>>> news:Xns9E527B20E3052J...@216.196.97.142:
>>>>
>>>>> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching
>>>>> the point of being cost effective for running my house in the
>>>>> short term? I'm not talking about amortizing the cost over 50
>>>>> years, but right now?
>>>>>
>>>>> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It depends on how much you pay for electicity now. If your power
>>>> company started charging 50cents a KWH or higher then maybe it'd be
>>>> worth it.
>>>
>>> http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_15305162?source=commented-busi
>>> ne ss
mmm tampa .. nice .. it must be warm there. No firewood cutting or
freezing rain huh?
I get sea sick even now working on our tuna/crab boat some times. I
skipped crabbing this year .. getting too old for that shit. Those boys
are out there now pulling pots in the sleet and rough waters, not getting
much in yet as the dungies are sly this year looks like. Glad to be on
tera firma.
I'd bet if we were all standing around drinking a beer you and curbie and
the rest would all get along just fine. Once you'd argued it all out
Back in the day me and my dad built this cabin and then the land use laws
changed it all to forest use only -- so nobody else could build here
(legally). I grew up here but went away to the city (school etc.) for a
while. He's kicked off a while back so I moved back in about 10 years
ago. Thus no power or other infrastructure since nobody else will ever
live here:
http://www.homebrewhydro.com/cabin.jpg
Still got the old outhouse too .. you city people shitting inside your
nests.. ain't civilized
-zachary
Jane_Galt
:)
Well there are two things that are relatively free, the sun and nuclear.
Both need to be harnessed though, which aint free.
Now I used to do some work on heliostats, which were cool, but dont know if
that technology is very relevant for home use yet. It took 30 good sized
mirrors with tracking and a tower, to generate about a megawatt, from what
I heard.
Then of course nuclear, but the government and the loons would have to get
out of the way.
If it didn't have everything to do with redistribution of wealth, they'd
agree to run the whole country on safe clean nuclear.
"There is enough nuclear fuel to last far longer than man will inhabit the
earth." - Physics Professor Emeritus Dr. Howard Hayden, author of The
Energy Advocate
Nowdays they can recycle nuclear waste ( and of course it CAME from the
earth anyway, even if they wanted to bury it ), and they have pre-packaged
power plant designs that could be pre-approved and built very quickly. We
could be running this whole country, including small vehicles, on nuclear,
within 20 years, but of course that wouldn't fit the Progressive
socialists' pseudo-environmentalist, actual redistribution of wealth
agenda.
We could be running the whole country on safe clean nuclear energy, homes,
businesses and cars, within 20 years, if government and the enviro-nazis
would just GET OUT OF THE WAY.
Jane_Galt
> Yes. I didn't invent the technology. I just made it work for my needs. I
> live on a 1/4 acre lot. So there isn't much room here form large arrays
> of any kind.
>
> I can't use solar. I have 2 giant trees that block the sun during its
> most effective time.
>
> I can't use wind, because there not enough of it here to make it useful.
>
> I can biodeisel to run a 10KW genset, but the neighbors would complain.
>
> My RPM setup is in a small 8x8 metal shed, under the trees, and doesn't
> make much noise. Its somewhere in the low 60db range. If I close the
> shed, and stand 20 feet away, I don't hear it running at all. My nearest
> neighbor only hears it running if I leave the shed door open.
>
> Jim Rojas
>
It's getting boring asking you over and over again; What provides the energy
for it?
Last chance, or meet my plonk file!
z
news:Xns9E52E8675E744J...@216.196.97.142:
> z <z...@yada.yada.com> wrote :
>
>
>>
>> Or if you grew up here in the boonies maybe. If you were rich you
>> wouldn't have to worry about buying fuel for your generator.
>>
>> Plenty of people in rural areas still don't have ready access to
>> power -- even in the USA. My power company wanted around 200,000
>> dollars to get power to my house and that was in the early 80's.
>>
>> Now i'd probably be twice that.
>
> Whew.
>
>> Upside is I can shoot in any direction without worry of hitting a
>> neighbor
>
> Oh I'm jealous! I want some shootin property some day.
Plenty in Colorado isn't there? Maybe go get some land near Hunter S
Thompsons place.. but that's probably pretty spendy.
>
>> and have some of the best salmon & steelhead fishing known to
>> man within 100 yards of my front porch.
>
> Ohhh!
>
>> But no pizza delivery .. or high speed interenet
>
>
> Dont they have satellite broadband yet?
The hills in the way. Also for the work I do the latency is too high
(near a second or more). Old school ssh terminal is actually faster with
dialup.
>
>>.. or microwave ..
>>
>> but nobody complains if I piss off my porch either ..
>>
>> so it goes
>
> Ah but why piss on the porch? LOL
Because you can!
>
>
Jane_Galt
Truly.
Insanity is doing the same failed thing over & over and expecting different
results.
Jane_Galt
> "Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in
> news:Xns9E52E8675E744J...@216.196.97.142:
>
>> z <z...@yada.yada.com> wrote :
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Or if you grew up here in the boonies maybe. If you were rich you
>>> wouldn't have to worry about buying fuel for your generator.
>>>
>>> Plenty of people in rural areas still don't have ready access to
>>> power -- even in the USA. My power company wanted around 200,000
>>> dollars to get power to my house and that was in the early 80's.
>>>
>>> Now i'd probably be twice that.
>>
>> Whew.
>>
>>> Upside is I can shoot in any direction without worry of hitting a
>>> neighbor
>>
>> Oh I'm jealous! I want some shootin property some day.
>
> Plenty in Colorado isn't there? Maybe go get some land near Hunter S
> Thompsons place.. but that's probably pretty spendy.
No money, I'm barely payin the bills here in the city. <sigh>
>>> and have some of the best salmon & steelhead fishing known to
>>> man within 100 yards of my front porch.
>>
>> Ohhh!
>>
>>> But no pizza delivery .. or high speed interenet
>>
>>
>> Dont they have satellite broadband yet?
>
> The hills in the way. Also for the work I do the latency is too high
> (near a second or more). Old school ssh terminal is actually faster with
> dialup.
Whew.
>>
>>>.. or microwave ..
>>>
>>> but nobody complains if I piss off my porch either ..
>>>
>>> so it goes
>>
>> Ah but why piss on the porch? LOL
>
> Because you can!
LOL! There ya go!
hubops
> Meanwhile the grid has been getting the boost it needs
> to deter some grid expansion costs for a few more years,
> saving the consumers money and environmental costs, down the
>road, also.
... w h o should be running for politics, now ! :-)
Ontario's micro solar power installations will not have any
significant effect on the supply grid. The 1600 megawatts
of wind power barely makes a ripple - except on those
ideal windy days when demand is high.
It has served to create a nice little feel-good-green industry
completely subsidized by the taxpayers and ratepayers.
John T.
Jim Rojas
> Jim Rojas<jro...@tech-man.com> wrote :
>
>
>> Yes. I didn't invent the technology. I just made it work for my needs. I
>> live on a 1/4 acre lot. So there isn't much room here form large arrays
>> of any kind.
>>
>> I can't use solar. I have 2 giant trees that block the sun during its
>> most effective time.
>>
>> I can't use wind, because there not enough of it here to make it useful.
>>
>> I can biodeisel to run a 10KW genset, but the neighbors would complain.
>>
>> My RPM setup is in a small 8x8 metal shed, under the trees, and doesn't
>> make much noise. Its somewhere in the low 60db range. If I close the
>> shed, and stand 20 feet away, I don't hear it running at all. My nearest
>> neighbor only hears it running if I leave the shed door open.
>>
>> Jim Rojas
>>
>
> It's getting boring asking you over and over again; What provides the energy
> for it?
>
> Last chance, or meet my plonk file!
>
I already posted this reply 3 times...
My PWM motor is run with a Bedini style circuit. Battery Bank A (24v
18AH) runs my PWM motor. The Bedini circuit then charges Battery Bank B
(24v 18AH). I then use a DPDT relay, and an mechanical appliance timer
to swap batteries. Bank A drives the PWM, Bank B charges, then after an
hour Bank B then drives the PWM, and Bank A charges.
I hope this is clear. If not I can elaborate even more.
Jim Rojas
Curbie
>I already posted this reply 3 times...
>
>My PWM motor is run with a Bedini style circuit. Battery Bank A (24v
>18AH) runs my PWM motor. The Bedini circuit then charges Battery Bank B
>(24v 18AH). I then use a DPDT relay, and an mechanical appliance timer
>to swap batteries. Bank A drives the PWM, Bank B charges, then after an
>hour Bank B then drives the PWM, and Bank A charges.
>
>I hope this is clear. If not I can elaborate even more.
A simple explanation is neither too difficult nor asking too much
given his claims.
For example:
Combustion engines (either internal or external) use heat derived from
fuel to expand gas creating motion to generate electricity - simple to
explain.
Wind or water provides the motion for turbines to generate electricity
- simple to explain.
PV's absorb photons of light and release electrons to generate
electricity - simple to explain.
Like the Wizard if Oz; scams are only believable if no one looks
behind the curtain, and in fact, the very reason there is a curtain is
to hide the scam.
That's the reason this scammer uses a curtain of evasion, gibberish,
"double talk", and links to more of the same, to try and keep this
fraud believable by never clearly answering the simple question: How
does this device produce power?
Curbie
(PeteCresswell)
>
>Overunity?
I think the elephant in the room is "Where does the energy go in
to the system?" Water wheel? Windmill?
--
PeteCresswell
Jim Rojas
There was no evasion. You just decided not to read the relevant portion
that answered your question numerous times. You asked what runs my
device, I told you numerous times. I guess you are expecting me to say
something different each time.
Read the posts again. Maybe ask someone else to read it to you. It seems
your anger is getting in the way of your objectivity.
I wondered why this group has very little participation. Your replies
quickly answered that question. If you don't like what I have to say,
just ignore my posts...simple solution.
Jim Rojas
x
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term?
"environmentalist lunacy" and perhaps we can help.
> I'm not talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
You want it to pay the first month? That's just silly.
>
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
Then you haven't bothered to do even a little shopping.
Vaughn
>
Jim Rojas
You are asking me to explain it like you were a child. I gave you more
credit than that. Ok...here goes:
A PWM requires a DC power source to run. My PWM is connected to a
battery which is 24VDC 18AH, Or (2 12VDC 18AH batteries connected in series)
The PWM is connected to a 24 volt DC motor, which draws 24VDC 20AMPS,
or 480 watts.
The DC motor is now spinning.
My DC motor has a 6 inch diameter plywood pulley attached to it. The
weighted flywheel is mounted behind the pulley, which slowly builds up
kinetic energy when it spins. The pulley has neodymium magnets mounted
on its edge all facing North.
Next to the motor, I have a small 12VDC 70A GM CS130 alternator. It
spins at idle speed to provide a 30 Amp charging voltage for both
battery banks.
A small 100 watt 120v car inverter is used to run the mechanical timer.
A small 12VDC 100ma transformer is plugged into the timer. The timer is
set to turn on and off every hour. The transformer is connected to the
coil of a 12VDC DPDT relay, which is rated to handle 50 Amps across each
set of contacts.
The alternator output is then connected to both commons of the DPDT
relay. The alternator charging voltage sensing wires are also connected
to prevent overcharging.
Battery Bank A is connected to the normally closed side of the DPDT
relay, while Battery Bank B is connected to the normally open side of
the DPDT relay.
The next 3 alternators are mounted directly opposite of the CS130
alternator. These are GM AD244 200A High Output models. They have been
converted to one wire output. This eliminates the need to add the
voltage sensing circuit wiring, and the alternator's rotor is now self
excited. No external power source needed to generate an electrical field.
Each alternator generates roughly 100 AMPS at idle speed. They each have
the same 6 inch mag drive pulley system. So they each give me 12VDC
100AMPS, which gives me my 3KW DC output. I think my setup should handle
1 or 2 more alternators.
I then connect the the full DC output from the alternators to my grid
tie circuits. In the event of a total blackout, I do have 2 2000 watt
standard car inverters I can connect via extension cords to my
refrigerators and laptops if needed. Other than that I do have a 6500
watt gasoline powered generator as well.
Jim Rojas
Curbie
gallons came out every would say that was a nice illusion, but no one
would say it's real, same thing with poring nickels down the "magic
pipe" and having dimes pop out, just an illusion.
The illusion this scammer wants people to believe is he is poring 1kW
of electricity into his magic motor and 2kw are popping out, the
difference is, the magician is trying to entertain people and scammers
try to harm people.
All energy conversion processes known to science consumes energy in
the conversion process, this scam defies the laws of physics as there
are currently known, but instead of selling this notion and helping
the world out of the energy crisis, instead of call the press and
demonstrating a "better" way to for the masses to produce energy, this
scammer chooses to post on the internet, trashing real ways to produce
electricity and advocating people waste their time and money chasing
an illusion.
This type of scammer gets their jollies by making people's bad
situations even worse.
Curbie
Curbie
There are two simple and easily explained flaws to this scam:
1) The first flaw is the bogus way they explain how magnets work,
in scamville, magnets that are fixed to a flywheel are attracted to
stationary magnet not fixed to the flywheel, the flywheel magnets are
attracted to stationary magnet as they approach turning the flywheel,
but MAGICALLY stops the attraction as the flywheel rotates the magnets
apart from each other - absolute non-sense - an equal magnetic force
that serves to increase rotation as the magnets approach each other
also serves to decrease rotation as the magnets rotate away from each
other, for a net power gain of ZERO.
2) The second flaw is the KEY to the scam, since energy cannot be
created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another, where
is the excess energy coming from, and the answer is that there is NO
excess energy, just an excess lie, and if you pore 1kW into this magic
motor, less than 1kW comes out - a simple time tested reality.
This and all other overuntiy energy ideas are flat-out scams, take a
moment to think!
Curbie
Jim Rojas
You are more than welcome to stop by my home to see the unit running
yourself. A picture of my setup or video would be a complete waste of
time. It is people like yourself that continue to keep this country
addicted to foreign oil.
Keep paying those high utility rates. Our local utility raised their
rates 40 percent just under 2 years ago. We have entire poorer
neighborhoods 30 miles south of my location that can no longer afford to
pay their high electric bills. All you hear is generators running
everywhere. Harbor Freight Tools can't get enough solar panel kits in
fast enough...real sad.
So in the summer months when I used my central AC, my bill used to be
was $200-250, went to $400 a month. Since my mortage payment is only
$477 a month, this was totally unacceptable. Since I already had my 600
watt unit running, I upgraded it to the AD244 and added 2 more I got
from a salvage yard for $35 each.
Why not use all that energy you have inside you to help people, instead
of badgering them and calling them names?
Jim Rojas
Curbie
scam believable are:
Why "rich fat corporations" haven't built devices from these internet
links and gotten richer and fatter???
Why he isn't selling or giving this notion to power companies and
helping the world out of the energy crisis???
Why he doesn't call the press and demonstrating a "better" way to for
the masses to produce energy???
How his magnets behave like no others known???
Where the energy he claims this device is producing is coming from???
Why hundreds of years old laws of physics don't apply to his device???
Why he's so intent on harming people???
It is scammers like this that keeps this country addicted to foreign
oil by advocating chasing this non-sense instead of something real,
remember he's the one not "helping" by not taking this non-sense to
power companies or the press or anyone who could help.
I do use all that energy I have inside me to help people, by helping
them not to get scammed. If you don't like being called a scammer,
STOP scammimg people.
This is a flat out scam perpetrated by a flat out scammer.
Curbie
Jim Rojas
My daughter and her 3 children moved in with us. We never have enough
hot water. So I replaced my 40 gallon hot water heater with a homemade
tankless water heater. The entire thing cost me under $100 to build. I
even reused the elements and thermostats from my old 40 gallon unit. I
guess this is another scam as well?
I replaced my 3 layer shingle roof a year ago with an all metal roof. I
got estimates of $20-24K. THAT'S CRAZY! I saw an ad on Craigslist of a
guy selling used metal building siding. It turned out it all came from a
5 year old metal building being torn down to make room for a new
shopping mall. I purchased 60 25ft sheets of these commercial grade
panels for $1000 total. Needless to say I won't ever need a new roof in
my lifetime.
I buy all my vehicles from an auction. I keep the car 5 years and sell
it for what I originally paid for it. Then I go to the auction and buy
another 3 year old car. Many of these auction cars that have under
10,000 miles on them. So when it comes time to sell my now 8 year old
car, it still has retained its retail value.
I don't shop at local supermarkets or fancy price clubs. I buy my bulk
meat at a commercial wholesale distributor...the same place your
supermarkets buy from. I buy my everyday items from a Walmart
Supercenter. Why? Because their prices are always the same in general.
The local supermarket charges $5.69 for a gallon of milk. Walmart it is
$3.49 everyday for the same brand. I buy my fruit & veggies from the
farmers market. 50-75 percent savings, without even trying.
I have been self employed since 1986. I don't have any credit card
balances, and have no outstanding debt of any kind. I once had 13
credit/charge cards, but I realized over 20 years ago the inherent evil
in carry such debt. So I paid them all off, and have been debt free ever
since.
Am I cheap? Maybe. But I saved tons of money over the years by doing
things myself, and thinking a different way.
Jim Rojas
Curbie
scammer ignores in his effort to keep his scam believable:
1) Why "rich fat corporations" haven't built devices from these
internet links and gotten richer and fatter???
2) Why he isn't selling or giving this notion to power companies and
helping the world out of the energy crisis???
3) Why he doesn't call the press and demonstrating a "better" way to
for the masses to produce energy???
4) How his magnets behave like no others known???
5) Where the energy he claims this device is producing is coming
from???
6) Why hundreds of years old laws of physics don't apply to his
device???
This is a flat out scam perpetrated by a flat out scammer.
Curbie
Jim Rojas
It amazes me how some people faced with something they don't fully
understand as a scam or lie, but follow archaic religious beliefs
blindly, without question or doubt...As a species, we will be lucky to
survive the next ice age.
Tesla was laughed at and ridiculed for decades. Today we enjoy the
fruits of his labor. He died alone and broke. I guess most of you are
doomed to the same fate.
Think about that the next time you shop for a high ticket item you
really can't afford without a charge card. Do I really need to spend
$40K on a brand new car? Do I really need that $2500 55 inch LED TV? Why
is my 2000sq ft, $750K home better than your 2000sq ft $150K home?
Location? Why is my property taxes more than a Walmart employees annual
salary? Why is my property taxes under $1K a year? Location?
Most of you go about your daily lives without a bloody care in the
world. It is only when your job lays you off and your spouse, or your
property values go down, that you ever notice what is really going on
around you...We the sheepeople...Why does Jim pay $265 a month for good
healthcare coverage when mine just went up to over $500 a month? Location?
Just take a moment and realize just how foolish most of you waste your
hard earned money. Your greed created the Madovs of this country...and
it doesn't just end there...every aspect of your life has been
controlled by those who dictate what you should pay for everyday items.
Curbie would argue that it's all Obama's fault...
Jim Rojas
Curbie
scammer ignores in his effort to keep his scam believable, but now
this scammer is throwing in religion, politics, the President, Madoff,
and the kitchen-sink in a desperate effort to change the subject and
AVOID ANSWERING SOME SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
I don't care how complex this scammer wants to make his "magic pipe"
SEEM, these dreamed-up details ARE the scam-curtain, where the excess
energy he claims to produce is coming from, that is THE question that
he is trying to hide with his scam-curtain and the reason he's
avoiding simple questions.
Where does the excess energy come from, mars, the tooth fairy, out of
thin air - where??? - Simple question.
The amount of sparkles he puts on his "magic pipe" is only there to
deceive and confuse, he wants you to believe he can pore a gallon or
nickels or 1kW in one end, and 2 gallons or dimes or 2kW will
magically pop out the other end. He wants you to believe something can
be made from nothing if we all just had his magic pipe - absolute
non-sense, he must be smoking his.
Think about it for a moment, if someone chained a whole bunch of his
"magic pipes" together, they could supply all the world's energy needs
with a single 9v battery, and this scammer wants you to believe this
non-sense.
Going to pull any more monkeys out of your butt, in a further attempt
to aviod answering some simple questions??? You haven't tried Bigfoot,
or the tooth fairy yet.
Bob F
If what you reply is nonsensical gibberish, which it is, you shouldn't expect
anything more than what you get here.
Morris Dovey
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
Hmm - whether you realized it or not, your question is ambiguous.
Assuming that you have no shortage of sunshine:
Photovoltaic (PV) systems can be cost-effective if you're off-grid and
lack other means of producing electricity - but that doesn't mean
they're inexpensive, just that they may be less expensive than other
power sources.
Passive solar air-heating panels are, or should be, better than 85%
efficient (compared to the less than 10% efficiency of PV panels) and
should be cost-efficient regardless of whether you're on the grid or not.
Solar DHW systems may be cost-efficient but will generally require an
active control system and availability of electrical power for the
control system and circulator pump.
Besides for this group, news:alt.solar.pv is usually a good place to
find people who have specific expertise in PV systems - and
news.alt.solar.thermal is a good place to find expertise in thermal systems.
> I see 5 watt solar panels selling for $100. Come on.
It's usually not difficult to find a bad price. There are bargains to be
found, but you'll need persistence and determination to find them. If
you're willing to do a bit of reading and aren't afraid to DIY, you can
buy relatively inexpensive PV cells on eBay and build your own panels.
I've seen a number of credible how-to web pages and the panels don't
look very difficult to build if you have (or can take the time to
acquire) basic woodworking/metalworking and soldering skills.
I can't resist pointing out that Rand's stated concept of a truly
virtuous person was, in every case, someone who went all-out to learn
and to acquire skills, and then apply both to the creation of new wealth. :)
--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
PGP Key ID EBB1E70E
Jim Wilkins
> ...>
> Battery Bank A is connected to the normally closed side of the DPDT
> relay, while Battery Bank B is connected to the normally open side of
> the DPDT relay.
> Jim Rojas
Do these two battery banks recharge each other through your Bedini
circuit, or do you charge them from an external source?
jsw
bw
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:u98sg6l7gu7ph5l5g...@4ax.com...
The primary energy source is pure manure.
bw
"Jane_Galt" <Jane_...@GaltsGulch.xyy> wrote in message
news:Xns9E527B20E3052J...@216.196.97.142...
> With all the environmentalist lunacy, is solar even approaching the point
> of
> being cost effective for running my house in the short term? I'm not
> talking
> about amortizing the cost over 50 years, but right now?
>
>
Solar photovoltaic panels have a niche, ie where there is no grid available.
Solar photovoltaic panels will never replace the grid. It's a fact based on
thermodynamic reality.
Find some old copies of Home Power Magazine. Each one will have a couple
stories about practical off-grid power systems.
Jane_Galt
Josepi
Well stated.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lddsg6t4dt0icfcho...@4ax.com...
Josepi
is always malalligned with magic energy sources.
Tesla is credited with developing three phase power systems and improving
the current technology with electrical motors and generators and that is it.
The rest was while he was hearing voices in his head and dying of
starvation.
"Curbie" <jim.ric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aarsg6dslgidis723...@4ax.com...
Josepi
one of them.
The programmes are designed to accomplish more than just improve the rate of
fuel(s) consumption in the short term. These green sources need to be
explored and developed and somebody has to pay for them.
Nuclear energy cannot handle short term loading and other sources that can
need to be present...or would you prefer more acid rain and coal usage
pollution?
"hubops" <nos...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in message
news:483sg6d9pjp6v9qf8...@4ax.com...
Jim Rojas
I use a small GM CS130 alternator to charge the batteries.
Jim Rojas
hubops
I support green initiatives - wholeheartedly -
but I think they should be treated with honesty.
Don't try to disguise it as helpful to the grid reliability
or helping long term supply issues.
... until we have affordable mega-watt storage.
ps - China is buying up all those companies.
John T.
>You need to decide what programme you are talking about before critisizing
>one of them.
>The programmes are designed to accomplish more than just improve the rate of
>fuel(s) consumption in the short term. These green sources need to be
>explored and developed and somebody has to pay for them.
>Nuclear energy cannot handle short term loading and other sources that can
>need to be present...or would you prefer more acid rain and coal usage
>pollution?
>>... w h o should be running for politics, now ! :-)
Josepi
areas and reducing the need for heavier conductors in times of peak deamnd.
PV co-ordinates very well with A/C loads and can eliminate many dirtier
input methods at peak demand times.
I have seen energy prices go to over $80 per kWh during times when the peak
demand was predicted accurately or in time to launch more generators during
these times. If they miss and cannot get a generator online fast enough they
have to beg, borrow or steal fromanother energy provider and in lieu of
previous agreements to purchase prearranged units they pay through the nose
in a blackmail style purchase agreement.
Watch the bottom price chart indicator. When the load exceeds the expected
demand (upper chart), anything can happen in price (lower chart)
http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/marketdata/marketToday.asp
There is no disguise for smal percentages of system size. Every kWh produced
saves our fuels and higher pollution methods from working. PV and windpower
can be turned on and off at will, mostly. Of course there is a limit to the
percentage of system that can be tolerated from these alternative supplies.
Check California PG&E energy rates and you will see that many of these
alternative energy sources are cheaper than grid power at peak times, even
on a planned load basis.
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS
I doubt we will ever have mega-watt storage. Power is not a unit that can be
stored but energy can be. This is happenning with some Hydro-Electric damns
now. They pump water back up in off peak times to offset the capacity
shortage during peak times. Other storage methods have mostly been too
expensive and too short term (at that scale) compared to "Green" supply
techniques.
We still have lots of energy learning to do yet.
"hubops" <nos...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in message
news:tbctg6daoht1alq0k...@4ax.com...