The Birthplace?
suave harv
'great pictures' thread, I started thinking about the whole 'birthplace'
thing. It appears they are saying that the shack there now is the actual
shack he was born in. If it isn't, (and I don't believe it is), and they are
charging admission, is this not illegal?
IWMa...@aol.com
OK I admit it
I've always thought it was the house where he was born.
Where does it say otherwise?
Keeping Elvis #1
Ian
Bill
If they are claiming it's the original house and it's not, then yes I
would say it's illegal. They can state that it's a reproduction and
charge people to see it, though.
Bill
Richard Palmer
wrote:
The floor is genuine. That's what I was always led to believe. The
rest is made from scratch (plus none of the furniture is genuine, but
is stuff gathered from either family members or is "of the period").
It's like when there is an old painting and it's been 99% restored
over the hundreds of years since it was originally done. Is it still a
genuine Da Vinci or whatever?
I say not, others may disagree. Either way, in the case of the house,
it was the place that affected me the least emotionally of all the
places I saw. It's completely sterile.
Richard
Dawn in Memphis
>From: Richard Palmer r.pa...@virgin.net
>Date: 12/27/2004 10:44 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <mje0t0587j77q6hvg...@4ax.com>
It's also been 'moved' from it's original property, hasn't it?
>
Bill
Reminds me of a joke that I heard a juggler say about an axe he was
about to toss around: This axe belonged to Abe Lincoln. The only thing
that had to be replaced was the head and the handle.
Bill
suave harv
I know two people that visited Tupelo in the early seventies. They were
shown round an old shack. . and were told it was Elvis' birthplace.
One local pointed to a jumble of wood, half covered in weeds ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE ROAD and said "that's the remains of the proper shack. . but
it's ruined so we show people around this one instead, but he was born in
that one".
When they returned in the eighties, a new shack had appeared on the site of
the one they looked around.
Now, if it's a mock up, fair enough. But the dedication on the plaque states
it is THE house. But from what I gather, it ain't even on the right side of
the road!!
suave harv
> I say not, others may disagree. Either way, in the case of the house,
> it was the place that affected me the least emotionally of all the
> places I saw. It's completely sterile.
Mark & I didn't even visit Tupelo when we went . . and I don't think it's
top of our list when we return. But to be fair, an 'Elvis holiday' should,
by rights, include Tupelo I suppose.
Richard Palmer
Well if I'd gone all the way to the USA solely to see Elvis sights,
and I hadn't gone to Tupelo, then I'd have felt a bit of a dick. But
my view has always been that it means nothing in the overall picture.
Graceland is where he chose to live, and where he died. Sun is where
he made his first records, and without Sun....who knows?
But he had no choice where he was born, and he left before he had any
say where he went next.
Richard
suave harv
> say where he went next.
I know what you mean. I have friends that have to go everywhere when they
visit Memphis. . Forest Hills Cemetery, Baptist Memorial Hospital. . what's
all that about?
The idea of seeing Elvis' Memphis to me, means seeing places where he sung &
enjoyed himself, and where he wanted to be. I'm not going there to tick off
places on a list. . I want to have some fun, listen to some music on Beale
and check out the jumpsuits.
Luckily, Mark, who I travel with, feels the same. Before we went, we visited
Anne Nixon, who showed us her Memphis scrapbooks. There was leaves from
Graceland pressed, pictures of houses where he lived for only a few weeks,
pictures of plaques mentioning him, all manner of minutiae. After we left,
he said to me "we haven't got to see all that, have we?". I knew then I was
going with the right person.
--
www.suaveharv.com
Broadway
>>would say it's illegal. They can state that it's a reproduction and
>>charge people to see it, though.
>>
>>Bill
>
>The floor is genuine. That's what I was always led to believe. The
>rest is made from scratch (plus none of the furniture is genuine, but
>is stuff gathered from either family members or is "of the period").
>
>It's like when there is an old painting and it's been 99% restored
>over the hundreds of years since it was originally done. Is it still a
>genuine Da Vinci or whatever?
>
>I say not, others may disagree. Either way, in the case of the house,
>it was the place that affected me the least emotionally of all the
>places I saw. It's completely sterile.
>
>Richard
I have nothing to go on but what's been said over the years.
I thought it was THE house, just in another location.
The stuff inside reminds me of that discussion we had a few months back about
the Lauderdale Courts apartment- it looks like a rabid Martha Stewart fan had
their way with the old shotgun shack. It could be alot better.
_________________________________________________
ALADDIN137
>From: Bill batca...@adelphia.net
>Date: 12/27/2004 7:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <41D027A6...@adelphia.net>
>
>If they are claiming it's the original house and it's not, then yes I
>would say it's illegal. They can state that it's a reproduction and
>charge people to see it, though.
>
>Bill
I heard that it is in fact exactly where Elvis and his Twin Brother were born.
However, for appearance sake, it has been upgraded a bit. I don't think they
tore it down and rebuilt a new versian. lol
~Genie
ALADDIN137
>From: "suave harv" skar...@freebird.de
>Date: 12/27/2004 2:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <cqq1d1$9lf$1...@hercules.btinternet.com>
>
>Now, if it's a mock up, fair enough. But the dedication on the plaque states
>it is THE house. But from what I gather, it ain't even on the right side of
>the road!!
>
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard Palmer
wrote:
>I have nothing to go on but what's been said over the years.
> I thought it was THE house, just in another location.
Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, it was several years ago now, but
I'm fairly sure that I asked the "guide" (if a woman standing in a
room that small can be called a guide) about the house, and she
confirmed that it was only the floor that was original.
That would make sense, because as soon as it became a tourist
attraction they'd have had to beef it up for security, and make it
much more water/damp proof.
Richard
Richard Palmer
We went on a bus tour around Memphis and the surrounding area, and the
guide pointed out lots of Elvis-related places. We did the whole thing
in less than a day, and stopped off at a couple of buildings. It was
good to do it that way, and I took a load of photo's. It's interesting
to see those buildings, but I had no great desire to get out and stand
in front of the hospital for example.
Aside from Sun studios which I've mentioned many times already, one of
the most goose-bumpy moments for me, came when we were let into Humes
High, and I left the party for a few seconds and walked alone down one
of the corridors. I had one of those flashback moments where I
suddenly imagined all these teenage kids jostling each other, and
there in the middle of them all looking completely unique, was a young
Elvis. Like a kind of 'Moses parting the red sea' thing, as everyone
stood aside to let him past.
You think that kind of thing only happens in films, but it happened to
me. Spooky.
Richard
suave harv
> Aside from Sun studios which I've mentioned many times already, one of
I played the piano at Sun. Not too well I might add, my hands were shaking!
How silly is that?
The funny thing, Mark took a little video with his camera whilst I was
playing. I was a bit upset he didn't take a photo. . but he (quite rightly)
said "but I filmed it!!! what more do you want?". But I wanted a photo for
my album. Well you would, wouldn't you?
Anyway, afterwards, whilst on Beale, I looked at my digital camera and there
were two pictures of me playing piano at sun! An American couple had picked
my camera up whilst I was playing, and took a couple of snaps. I was well
pleased!
They were a great couple. . after I had played (manic boogie woogie) the
shook my hand and said "man, that was awesome". I think it made their trip
to Sun more special, seeing these English lads in Memphis for the first
time, and getting to play the piano.
Visiting Sun is like having sex with a girl you've fancied for ages. You
can't quite believe you're in there, and before you know it, it's over!
Broadway
>the most goose-bumpy moments for me, came when we were let into Humes
>High, and I left the party for a few seconds and walked alone down one
>of the corridors. I had one of those flashback moments where I
>suddenly imagined all these teenage kids jostling each other, and
>there in the middle of them all looking completely unique, was a young
>Elvis. Like a kind of 'Moses parting the red sea' thing, as everyone
>stood aside to let him past.
>
>You think that kind of thing only happens in films, but it happened to
>me. Spooky.
>
>Richard
Was it a special function or is Humes open to touring?
I never did any of this stuff...
_________________________________________________
Broadway
>can't quite believe you're in there, and before you know it, it's over!
>
>
It is my Memphis highlight.
I like to hit a chord or two and imagine what it actually sounded like in
there.
_________________________________________________
// Mr. T
I have heard it was located on the other side of the road as well, suave
harv.
Mr. 007, could you perhaps shed light on this... Are you out there Bill?
In any case, in the early 60s Albert Hand of the FC "Elvis Monthly" and an
associate took Vernon on a drive to Tupelo. Below is a small taste of a more
thorough report later printed in "Elvis Monthly";
"Vernon had not visited his old hometown for 15 years and had not seen
Elvis' birthplace for 25 years. (snip) "Look 't that Mr. Hand, Hulme High
School. Elvis went there after doing the rounds at one or two schools, then
we moved to Memphis. A lot of fans think he went there all the time.
Probably the papers gave that impression, but this wasn't so. He wasn't
there very long at all". Vernon pointed out another school where Elvis had
previousely attended, but unfortunately he couldn't remember the name of it.
"Where is it, where is it", he muttered. Then suddenly, a sharp intake of
breath. "look Mr. Hand, he whispered fiercely, "my old truck company." There
before us on the right, stood a lenghty building with gaping archways where,
presumably, the trucks left the hidden inside yard. (snip)
Vernon stopped and his eyes lid up.
"Hey Red" he bellowed.
An overalled figure stopped pushing a trolley he was steering, and looked
round in faint bewilderment. Then he dropped the trolley with a heavy
clatter and roared: "Vern! You old son of a gun!"
And then there followed a lively five minutes chat between two old pals
(snip)
"S'long Red!"
Then the moment was over.
"There's the road", said Vernon quietly and he flicked his left-hand
indicator, before moving up a narrow road on the left-hand side of the main
truck route.
"The house is along here", he went on. "Now there are thousands of
photographes knocking around, supposed to be Elvis' house. Once again it was
a magazine's fault. I told them where the house was, but they took the wrong
picture and lots of fans followed suit and also took the wrong one. Well,
there'll be no mistake this time, eh Mr. Hand?", and the Cadillac drew to a
halt.
We'd arrived.
I tried the door. I couldn't believe it! It was open! (snip) I pushed the
door open and stepped inside (snip) Vernon spoke quietly from behind me.
"My, my! Just as it was. In that corner, Mr. Hand, Elvis drew his first
breath". He pointed to the left hand side of the room. We were all three
visibly affected.
*Note:* Vernon pointed out the corner immediate to the left when entering
the door, just inside from the window behind the hammock chair (or whatever
it's called) now located on the porch. BTW, was this hammock chair there
when the Presley's lived at the house? Vernon did not mention it not beeing
there, but he did mention that he used to sit on the stairs "on those hot
summer evenings". And also, on a picture I have of Vernon sitting on the
stairs it looks more like he's sitting on the porch with his feets on the
last tread of the stairs. But perhaps the ground has been sinking a bit
since then...? ;-)
Vernon spoke again.
"Just look at the size of this room! Do you know it had two double-beds,
an`it don't look big enough to hold a cot!" He paused in true,
honest-to-goodness astonishment. "Little window there, little window there.
Oh yes, and this door over there, let's go see...".
Quickly, almost eagerly he went to the inside door on the right-hand side of
the bedroom, and passed through into the 2nd room. Vernon stopped and gave a
slow whistle of wonder.
"Mr. Hand", he muttered, it's just like yesterday". He pointed out imagenary
sticks of furniture and pointed to the place where the sink used to be.
Lovingly he fingered the fireplace, which now had no surround, then he
quickly jerked open the closet door on the right alongside it. He laughed
softly. "I put this in `cos we hadn't much room. Guess it left less room
than ever, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. And it's still here,
durn me if it ain't!"
(snip)
And with the normality of the exit, so Vernon's tenseness seemed to go too,
and from that moment we were treated to a wonderful reminiscence of "the old
days".
- Of how Elvis used to potter across the road to go up to his little church,
which is still in tip-top condition and used daily by worshippers, and
stands a few yards away from the front of the house, across the road.
*Note:* Does this description of location fit with where the house is
located today?
- Of the house itself, which "Paw and me built with our to bare hands".
- Of the well at the side of the home where they used to draw water: "And it
was a real good well, too".
*Note:* This well was located on the right side of the house. When looking
from where the statue is today it was located directly between the window
far back to the right and the corner of the house. Just a meter or two from
the outside wall. Any trace of this well today...?
- Of the tree which "Paw planted", and I remember Vernon made three wrong
calculations before he finally slapped the tree-trunk and said proudly:
"Yupp! This is the one."
*Note:* This tree was standing on the same side as the well was located,
with the boughs almost covering parts of the roof.
Well, that's all from Vernon's visit.
But, BTW, was this by any chance also his last visit to Old Saltillo
Road...? And how about Elvis, did he really visit his first home at least
once a year as some authors report? I think not, but would you care to
comment on this Marty?
I unsuccessfully tried to find a story in "Revelations" on one occasion
Elvis sent Lamar Fike (I think it was, or am I wrong here?) down to Tupelo
to get a firsthand picture of his childhood. I also seem to remember
something about Elvis himself taking some of the guys to Tupelo for a
sightseeing but this may very well be wrong as well. Could you please give
us the facts here Marty? Thanks.
But further... Richard Palmer wrote:
> Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, it was several years ago now, but
> I'm fairly sure that I asked the "guide" (if a woman standing in a
> room that small can be called a guide) about the house, and she
> confirmed that it was only the floor that was original.
Perhaps you are right, Richard, but the floor on the outside porch looks to
be completely different to me when comparing old pictures with newer. And I
am not thinking of the paint. The stairs is also totally different with no
hand rail except a couple of sticks holding a crosspiece on the right side.
Even the bricks holding the house looks different. But of course, the main
floor may still be the same, but I honestly doubt it very much. Remember,
this house was not lived in for a number of years and when there is no
upkeep whatsoever the disrepair start to show very quickly. Also, this house
was built more than 70 years ago. It's purpose was to house a small family,
well, only Vernon and Gladys at the time of course, but Elvis was born soon
afterwards. It was not built to handle crowds by the thousands 70+ years
later. BTW, isn't that one of the explanation why the 2nd floor at Graceland
is closed to the public, that the floor wouldn't handle it? Perhaps if
Vernon had done some joiner's work at Graceland as well it would've handled
it nicely ;-)
Anyway, the house was first opened to the public in June 1971 so I would
immediate guess a potential house moving must have occurred before this
date. But when looking at a picture from August 1973 (on print in "Caught in
a Trap") it looks like the tree "Paw" planted is located on the right
spot... Hmmm...!?!
But this fit nicely with what you wrote, suave harv, about the house being
located on different locations in the early seventies compared to the
eighties.
It must be noted that I have never been to Tupelo, and have not seen the
house or the surroundings firsthand, except on film and pictures.
But, another thing, how about the infamous tornado that swept through Tupelo
April 5, 1936...
Where was the Presley's at the moment of the storm...? Is the somewhat
"standard" story on how Vernon and Gladys took refuge in Jessie and Minnie
Mae's home, with Gladys holding her baby tight really true..?
This is how Vernon remembered it, as told to Albert Hand:
"On the night of the tornado, when in silent horror, they had all three of
them sat in the house (Note: that is their own house!) and heard it go clean
past them a few hundred yards away. And how they woke up in the morning,
thankful and surprised to find themselves still alive and miraculously
unscathed whilst all around lay battered scenes of destruction at the hand
of the Almighty".
--
Tormod
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes with this automated fix!
http://tinyurl.com/1sfn
suave harv
it's around 1962. I think it may have been on the same trip the Albert Hand
met Elvis whilst filming Kid Galahad.
I'll try and dig it out, and scan the pictures and post a link. I recall the
one of Vernon sitting on the porch. Leave it with me . .
--
suave harv
http://www.suaveharv.com/tupelo.htm
--
My post '63 monthlies are tucked away, but I found this in a 1968 issue. . .
took by Albert Hand, and seeing as Vernon Himself pointed out the shack, we
can assume this is the original shack I reckon.
I've not re-sized the picture, to keep the quality. Sorry to none
broad-banders. But the pics aren't that good quality anyway.
MARTY
"suave harv" <skar...@freebird.de> wrote in message
news:cqre1o$ce2$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Suave,
You need to date more or date different girls. I've been to Sun many, many
times back in the 50's up to modern times and I have never equated it with
getting laid.
Marty
>
>
Richard Palmer
wrote:
>Was it a special function or is Humes open to touring?
We went out on the bus, and had no idea where we were going. We landed
up at Humes. This was a UK Fan Club event, but I think that I can
recall some friends of mine telling me that they had been in a couple
of years before so maybe it's not hard to get a trip organised.
The school must have been on holiday of course, because this was mid
morning and on a week day.
Perhaps the highlight was going into the auditorium and sitting
looking out over the same stage where Elvis would have played the
guitar. That's the kind of place that has real meaning, not some
"is-it-isn't-it-real" wooden fake of a shack where he did little else
but shit his pants and suck on his mothers tit.
I can't help but be crude some days.
Richard
MitziLucky
>From: Richard Palmer r.pa...@virgin.net
>Date: 12/28/2004 12:27 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <4i43t0ph5lu96ff5a...@4ax.com>
Lucky
MitziLucky
>From: "suave harv" skar...@freebird.de
>Date: 12/28/2004 11:11 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <cqs0jg$8v8$1...@titan.btinternet.com>
Thanks Suave,
I see how it really was....damn.
Hard to believe.....damn.
Lucky
// Mr. T
> http://www.suaveharv.com/tupelo.htm
> My post '63 monthlies are tucked away, but I found this in a 1968 issue. .
.
> took by Albert Hand, and seeing as Vernon Himself pointed out the shack,
we
> can assume this is the original shack I reckon.
That's undoubtedly pictures from the same visit, very nice. BTW, you don't
have to search old EM's for the complete story as it was re-printed in EW
#421, the EW Extra issued on Jan. 8th, 1995.
I have made the pictures used in the article available here:
http://home.no.net/idse/tupelo/
Bill Burk
>> >>
I'm out here, Tormod, trying to thaw out from this damned Norwegian winter
you blew into Memphis last Onsdag !!!!
I'm afraid, at this very moment, I can only add to the mystery because I
have seen one photo of the birthplace house that was supposed to be the
original one . . . and it had NO windows on the right side (toward the
statue).
As to location, as I remember, Aunt Annie Presley told us during our TUPELO
YEARS book interview, that the house was at that same location and the
larger Presley family house was "up the hill a-ways," meaning about where
the chapel stands today.
Vernon (you say) remembered building the house with his father; whereas
Uncle Vester told us HE and his father had built that house from the ground
up, saying Vernon was only 17 and didn't know all that much about carpentry;
that ALL Vernon did was bring Vester and his father the lumber and nails.
I have this afternoon tried to make contact with a person in Tupelo who
should be able to shed light on this, but it being the week after Christmas,
a lot of people are still away from home. Will keep trying, however.
As to Vernon pointing out to Albert Hand the church across the street and
saying that was the church he attended --- NOT SO !!! The church the
Presley's attended was of a different denomination and is still located
about 2, 3 long blocks west of the birthplace home and, until recently, was
still an Assembly of God church. It's down nearer to the creek.
SO ... it seems when Vernon was with Hand, Vernon's memory might have been a
little shaky; or his brain might have had some extra fluid.
007
--
******************
Bill E. Burk
Publisher, Elvis World Magazine
[Remove "NOSP" from my e-mail address]
MARTY
"Bill Burk" <beb...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:s_jAd.1180473$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Also in over 20 years around Elvis and his father I never heard him call his
father "Paw".
I was told that George klein and Janelle McComb built that house with their
bare hands and it was them that suggested to Mr. and Mrs. presley that they
should move in there and give birth to a boy who would one day be known as
The King Of Rock N' Roll.
By the way, I have some more of that water for sale.
Marty
SouthPaw
That man sure got around! ;) More ways than one...
"MARTY" <moon...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:OskAd.7$sE...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Broadway
>thorough report later printed in "Elvis Monthly";
>
>"Vernon had not visited his old hometown for 15 years and had not seen
>Elvis' birthplace for 25 years. (snip) "Look 't that Mr. Hand, Hulme High
>School. Elvis went there after doing the rounds at one or two schools,
Tormod, that was a fabulous and most interesting post.
Thank you.
_________________________________________________
// Mr. T
> Tormod, that was a fabulous and most interesting post.
> Thank you.
Glad you liked it Broadway!
// Mr. T
> I'm out here, Tormod, trying to thaw out from this damned Norwegian
> winter you blew into Memphis last Onsdag !!!!
Damn Bill, I thought you'd like it ;-)
> I'm afraid, at this very moment, I can only add to the mystery
> because I have seen one photo of the birthplace house that was
> supposed to be the original one . . . and it had NO windows on the
> right side (toward the statue).
No windows...?! This was a new turning...! What do you think of this Bill?
Is this picture published somewhere?
But anyway, I was able to find another picture of the house, supposedly
taken in 1956. Unfortunately it does not show the right side of the house,
only the front, and left side... This photo is even inscribed on the back by
Elvis confirming it really is "The house where I was born and grew up in
Tupelo"..!! (please see link below).
> As to location, as I remember, Aunt Annie Presley told us during our
> TUPELO YEARS book interview, that the house was at that same location
> and the larger Presley family house was "up the hill a-ways," meaning
> about where the chapel stands today.
There are a lot of different reminiscence around for sure, but that is
somewhat understandable of course. It was a very long time ago, and if the
house was indeed moved later on it probably only added more confusion...
Uncle Vester wrote in his book that the house was just a few feet away from
the big house, but then again, Vester also wrote that the costs building the
hose was covered by the $200 in damages Elvis' parents was awarded after a
truck crashed into their car...!?!
BUT, for once(!), I think Vester was indeed right when he wrote the house
was just a few feet away from the big house, and that Aunt Annie Presley was
wrong when telling you the larger Presley family house was "up the hill
a-ways," and best of all, I think I can prove it...!! Please click:
http://home.no.net/idse/tupelo/
And please post your interpretation on this picture, thanks.
> Vernon (you say) remembered building the house with his father;
> whereas Uncle Vester told us HE and his father had built that house
> from the ground up, saying Vernon was only 17 and didn't know all
> that much about carpentry; that ALL Vernon did was bring Vester and
> his father the lumber and nails.
Well, Uncle Vester also wrote in his book that "Vernon, Jessie and I take on
the task of building a home for Gladys, Vernon, and the expected child".
BUT, they did NOT expect a child at this time...! As far as I know the house
was built the summer of 1933, and Elvis was not born until a year and a half
later. Anyhow, I would not think that Uncle Vester, only 18 months older,
had that much more knowledge about carpentry than Vernon. One thing is for
sure, people sure do remember things differently.
> I have this afternoon tried to make contact with a person in Tupelo
> who should be able to shed light on this, but it being the week after
> Christmas, a lot of people are still away from home. Will keep
> trying, however.
Should be interesting, thanks.
// Mr. T
> I unsuccessfully tried to find a story in "Revelations" on one
> occasion Elvis sent Lamar Fike (I think it was, or am I wrong here?)
> down to Tupelo to get a firsthand picture of his childhood.
I did remember this incorrect, it was not Lamar Fike but Larry Geller whom
Elvis asked to take the pink Cadillac and drive down to Tupelo. This story
was not in the "Revelations" but in one of Geller's own books, "If I Can
Dream". Geller wrote in the book: "He wanted me to see with my own eyes what
he was talking about".
Are you reading this Mr. Geller, and if so, do you remember what year this
happen?
In the following segment you make reference to your first few weeks in
Memphis so my guess would be that your visit to Tupelo happened the same
time, that being the summer of 1964, right?
Therefore, if I am correct when guessing the year to be 1964, your visit
took place only a year or two after Albert Hand and Vernon's visit. But
what's making me wonder is the following lines in printed in your book;
"I got back into the car and drove on to the house Elvis was born in. When
he asked me to go there, I had wondered how I'd ever find that one little
house, but, as it turned out, once you were in Tupelo there was no way you
could miss it. Sign posted everywhere directed one and all to Old Saltillo
Road and the birthplace of the town's beloved son. Within minutes I was
there".
I am wonderingly thinking where all the signs came from..? This because, as
I wrote in a previous post, there was no signs whatsoever directing to the
house a year or two earlier. Vernon even tried to explain to some reporters
where the house was located and they picked the wrong one.
Or did your visit simply happen long after 1964?
If you still drop by AEK sometimes, Geller, I'd appreciate your comments.
Thanks.
> I also seem to remember something about Elvis himself taking some of the
> guys to Tupelo for a sightseeing but this may very well be wrong as
> well. Could you please give us the facts here Marty? Thanks.
Do you have any recollection on this Marty? Thanks.
// Mr. T
> As to Vernon pointing out to Albert Hand the church across the street
> and saying that was the church he attended --- NOT SO !!! The church
> the Presley's attended was of a different denomination and is still
> located about 2, 3 long blocks west of the birthplace home and, until
> recently, was still an Assembly of God church. It's down nearer to
> the creek.
>
> SO ... it seems when Vernon was with Hand, Vernon's memory might have
> been a little shaky; or his brain might have had some extra fluid.
Bill, I did not answer your last sentence in my previous post...
First, Vernon did not say the church across the street was the church he
attended, he said: "Elvis used to potter across the road to go up to his
little church". I guess a little church like that with presumably lively and
spirited people around every now and then would gain attention from a little
boy living just across the street. But the way I understood Vernon's
utterance, he could just as well have said "Elvis used to potter across the
road to go up to his little [e.g] fire station", or whatever.
But I got a bit startled over something else... This church, a St. Mark's
Methodist church, located directly across the road was as far as I
understand totally razed from the tornado! Elvis was only 15 months at the
time of the tornado and probably didn't "potter" around anywhere at all at
that age (I presume that "potter" is somewhat synonymous with "toddle"
here?) And according to "Elvis & Gladys" the church would not be rebuilt for
several years...". Ergo the church was not even there, at least not in
function, while Elvis lived across the street.
But then again, perhaps the church was not totally damaged by the tornado
after all, if some framework of the building was just abandoned to be
falling to pieces I can certainly understand it got attention from a little
boy. But if this is correct, where was, the supposedly overprotective,
Gladys? Such a building would presumably be a rather dangerous playground,
don't you think?
I don't know about Vernon's brain having had some extra fluid before or
then, but perhaps they were all "potter"-ing and "toddle"-ing around down
there wondering where the h*ll their house had been moved to now... ;-)
BTW, do they still use BT and AT as an indication of time in the Tupelo
area?
MARTY
"// Mr. T" <tor...@tcbb.no**remove-this-plus-one-b**> wrote in message
news:gmxAd.2115$Sl3....@news4.e.nsc.no...
Yes, we took a few trips to Tupelo.
I was there when Sheriff Mitchell gave him the badge, we spent most of the
time we were there in the jail. That was the day after Sonny's wedding and
if you notice Elvis is wearing the same clothes he wore the night before at
the wedding.
We also visted Shake Rag which was across the street from Green Street and
the times we were there we visted the Elvis Presley Park land. Most of the
times we spent in the jail. That was his law enforcement fascination. I
remember looking at one of the padded cells. i can tell you if you weren't
crazy when you were put in one of them, it was so small you'd be crazy when
you got out.
I remember on one occasion there, Joe's father died in Chicago and I called
from the jail to send flowers from Elvis and also from the guys.
Marty
// Mr. T
> Yes, we took a few trips to Tupelo.
>
> I was there when Sheriff Mitchell gave him the badge, we spent most
> of the time we were there in the jail. That was the day after
> Sonny's wedding and if you notice Elvis is wearing the same clothes
> he wore the night before at the wedding.
>
> We also visted Shake Rag which was across the street from Green
> Street and the times we were there we visted the Elvis Presley Park
> land. Most of the times we spent in the jail. That was his law
> enforcement fascination. I remember looking at one of the padded
> cells. i can tell you if you weren't crazy when you were put in one
> of them, it was so small you'd be crazy when you got out.
>
> I remember on one occasion there, Joe's father died in Chicago and I
> called from the jail to send flowers from Elvis and also from the
> guys.
Thank you Marty.
Do you remember if you ever went by Old Saltillo Road while in Tupelo? And
if so, did Elvis ever go up to and/or into the house?
MARTY
Yes, we went to Old Saltillo, if my memory serves me right, it was just down
the road on the other side of the railroad tracks from where the jail was
then.
Marty
// Mr. T
Thanks Marty,
May I also ask you, what is your opinion on whether the house has been moved
or not?
I would also like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year, and
also a Happy Birthday this upcoming Monday.
MARTY
Thank you for the good wishes Tormod and a Happy New Year to you too.
I do not think that is the original house. Now the floor might be the same
as they claim but I don't see how the floor would have held up all those
years. Those places rot when they are neglected for years.
They probably did some rebuilding and refurbishing. I can tell you that the
furnishings are not the originals.
Marty
MARTY
"AFriend" <rkennedy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1104433201.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> MARTY wrote:
> > I can tell you that the
> > furnishings are not the originals.
> >
> > Marty
>
No, I don't know but they were not at Graceland. Elvis hated them. That's
why he hated antiques. He said he grew up with old crap and he didn't need
anymore in his life after he made it big.
Marty
>
// Mr. T
> I was there when Sheriff Mitchell gave him the badge, we spent most
> of the time we were there in the jail. (...)
BTW, was this by coincidence the same jail that Vernon was thrown into not
long after he, along with Gladys' brother Travis and some other guy,
falsified a $4 check, probably to be either $40 or 14 worth? And if so, was
this also the same jail that Vernon was locked up in the next six months
before the trail took place, or was this a different jail?
It is also notable that Vernon's father did not pay the bail to get his son
out of jail (while waiting for the trail) while he did help pay the bail to
get Gladys' brother out...!
And one more thing... Sheriff Mitchell gave Elvis the badge, right there in
the jail, on Dec. 29, 1970... And only a few weeks after this incident the
album "Elvis country" was released... On the cover of this album they used a
photograph of Elvis at the "age two or three". Or perhaps, was he more
precise somewhere around 2 years and 10 months...?
Elaine Dundy has an interesting theory on this photo in her book "Elvis &
Gladys" [quote:] "Something about the way Gladys, her cheek pressed against
Elvis' little hat, has extended her arm behind him and is gripping Vernon's
shoulder makes one wonder if this photograph was not actually taken at the
police station and at Gladys' insistence that she and Vernon and Elvis have
this remembrance of them all together to cherish in the harsh months to
follow". [end quote] Dundy also mention the fact that the background looks
like stark gray cement.
Interesting theory, don't you think?
MARTY
No, I believe this jail had been built since then.
How the hell would Elaine Dundy know. I think the last thing Mrs. Presley
wanted to do is take a picture of her and Elvis at the jail.
Vernon served his sentence at the main Mississippi penetentiary, Parchman
Farm, which is no piece of cake. It is about 75 miles from Tupelo.
Marty
Tony
house was at last earmarked for preservation by the state of
Mississippi. With money raised by the Elvis Presley Memorial Foundation,
it was repainted, rewired, reroofed and redecorated to a condition
approximating that of the late 1930's."
From "Travels With Elvis,",,,,,"The only original elements are the
floors, walls, fireplace, doorframes and window frames."
// Mr. T
I must admit Marty, what you say makes sense, of course.
Do you happen to know if any of Elvis' entourage from the early days was
interviewed for this book? I am perhaps especially thinking of Red West. He
was indeed quoted on several pages in the book, so I remember looking twice
for his name on the "gratitude page" when first reading the book, but
strangely enough, I couldn't find his name in there.
> Vernon served his sentence at the main Mississippi penetentiary,
> Parchman Farm, which is no piece of cake. It is about 75 miles from
> Tupelo.
According to Dundy's book [quote:] "The Lee County courthouse records do not
list anyone standing bail for Vernon. It must therefore be concluded that
Vernon spent the next six months before the trial in custody". [end quote].
If this is correct then Vernon had to be in custody from the moment he was
arrested until the trial took place, on May 24, 1938, - about six months
later.
Hi Tony,
May I ask, what is your personal opinion on whether the information you
provided in the last sentence are correct? If I remember correctly you
visited Tupelo and Elvis' (supposed to be) birthplace not that long ago.
I might be wrong here, but I have somewhat hard to believe that there's
anything left of the original house at all, plus, I believe, that the "new"
house is located on a different spot. Notwithstanding, a discussion about
whether or not it is, or is not, is appropriate, don't you think? But, based
on the very few replies on this thread, I must admit that not many share my
point of view.
In any case, I think it's somewhat naive to take every word said by Janelle
McComb on this matter to be the truth and nothing but the truth. Although
some authors and others do... But how could she possibly know...??
--
Mr. T
Life is what's happening while we're busy making other plans
- John Lennon
Tony
provided in the last sentence are correct? If I remember correctly you
visited Tupelo and Elvis' (supposed to be) birthplace not that long ago.
I might be wrong here, but I have somewhat hard to believe that there's
anything left of the original house at all, plus, I believe, that the
"new" house is located on a different spot. Notwithstanding, a
discussion about whether or not it is, or is not, is appropriate, don't
you think? But, based on the very few replies on this thread, I must
admit that not many share my point of view.
In any case, I think it's somewhat naive to take every word said by
Janelle McComb on this matter to be the truth and nothing but the truth.
Although some authors and others do... But how could she possibly
know...??"
I visited the birthhouse in '96 and I do believe it's the actual house.
I don't believe a deception of that magnitude could be carried out. I
believe the quote from the book is essentialy correct. The house I live
in is a bit older than the birthhouse and all the flooring is original
with the exception of two rooms, and additional flooring was put over
the original in those two rooms. The front porch has been replaced
twice. There has been some remodeling down thru the years, but virtually
all of the house is original.
A cyberfriend of mine emailed the birthouse website and inquired if
the house is in the original location. They replied that it is. But, I
choose to believe it has been moved. I've seen more than one segment on
TV that said it has, plus I came across a website awhile back and one of
the workers involved in the relocation commented on it. Maybe it was
necessary to move the house when the park was established. If indeed it
has been moved, I guess the management insists on claiming that's the
original site for historical reasons. They probably think the tourists
would be upset knowing that isn't the original site and attendance might
drop off. You would think something like this would be relatively easy
to verify(one way or the other) but it looks as if we'll never have the
definitive truth. I think Billy Smith was born in 1943. If the house was
moved after Elvis became famous, I bet he would have been old enough to
remember. There should also still be enough of Elvis' relatives still
living in Tupelo to know.
MARTY
"Tony" <Sha...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14548-41D...@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net...
-------------------------------------
I just spoke with Billy and he said that the house is not in the original
location, it was moved to the park area for tourist purposes.
He also said that they took the original house and basically replaced some
things in it because it was in bad shape after all those years since Elvis
lived there.
That should settle this debate.
Marty
>
>
Tony
not in the original location, it was moved to the park area for tourist
purposes.
He also said that they took the original house and basically replaced
some things in it because it was in bad shape after all those years
since Elvis lived there."
-------------------------------------------
That's great to finally know for sure.
Thanks, Marty.
// Mr. T
> I visited the birthhouse in '96 and I do believe it's the actual
> house. I don't believe a deception of that magnitude could be carried
> out. I believe the quote from the book is essentialy correct. The
> house I live in is a bit older than the birthhouse and all the
> flooring is original with the exception of two rooms, and additional
> flooring was put over the original in those two rooms. The front
> porch has been replaced twice. There has been some remodeling down
> thru the years, but virtually all of the house is original.
> A cyberfriend of mine emailed the birthouse website and inquired if
> the house is in the original location. They replied that it is. But, I
> choose to believe it has been moved. I've seen more than one segment
> on TV that said it has, plus I came across a website awhile back and
> one of the workers involved in the relocation commented on it. Maybe
> it was necessary to move the house when the park was established. If
> indeed it has been moved, I guess the management insists on claiming
> that's the original site for historical reasons. They probably think
> the tourists would be upset knowing that isn't the original site and
> attendance might drop off. You would think something like this would
> be relatively easy to verify(one way or the other) but it looks as if
> we'll never have the definitive truth. I think Billy Smith was born
> in 1943. If the house was moved after Elvis became famous, I bet he
> would have been old enough to remember. There should also still be
> enough of Elvis' relatives still living in Tupelo to know.
Tony, it looks like your assumptions deserves an A+ ;-)
// Mr. T
> I just spoke with Billy and he said that the house is not in the
> original location, it was moved to the park area for tourist purposes.
>
> He also said that they took the original house and basically replaced
> some things in it because it was in bad shape after all those years
> since Elvis lived there.
>
> That should settle this debate.
>
> Marty
Thanks Marty.
Colin B
It's the actual shack.
But it isn't in the original location.
Colin B
"suave harv" <skar...@freebird.de> wrote in message
news:cqp0fp$2f4$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Looking at that (very good) slideshow, featuring Elvis' birthplace, on the
> 'great pictures' thread, I started thinking about the whole 'birthplace'
> thing. It appears they are saying that the shack there now is the actual
> shack he was born in. If it isn't, (and I don't believe it is), and they
> are
> charging admission, is this not illegal?
>
> --
> www.suaveharv.com
>
>
>
Colin B
But reading some of the other replies,
it might not be !
Better wait for Bill Burk to come back
on that one !
Colin B
"Colin B" <colin....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:crbghl$o8i$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
MARTY
> Harv -
>
> But reading some of the other replies,
> it might not be !
>
> Better wait for Bill Burk to come back
> on that one !
>
> Colin B
All due respect to Bill, Billy Smith would know better since he spent days
and nights in it when Elvis still lived there.
Marty
Colin B
Maybe so, but Bill Burk has promised to
come back on here with an answer.
Billy Smith hasn't !
Colin B
"MARTY" <moon...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:D_dCd.10014$7N4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
MARTY
> Marty -
>
> Maybe so, but Bill Burk has promised to
> come back on here with an answer.
>
> Billy Smith hasn't !
>
> Colin B
I posted Billy's answer the other day.
Marty
IWMackay
>location, it was moved to the park area for tourist purposes.
>
>He also said that they took the original house and basically replaced some
>things in it because it was in bad shape after all those years since Elvis
>lived there.
>
>That should settle this debate.
>
>Marty
It's in the same place it was in '78.
They've removed the slope down to the road and made the road wider.
The first time I went, they'd just cut Vernon's tree down and they gave each of
the UK Fan Club members a piece of the tree in a plastic bag along with a
postcard and a bit of cotton.
The woman I was talking to had been going since '72 and when we pulled up, she
said right away "the tree's gone" and told me where it was.
It still had remnants of the other buildings in the street in '78.
In the Museum, they have a letter from Vester stating that it is the house that
E was born in, that he built it and that it had not been moved when he was
there, I think, in '79.
I complained yesterday to the guy that runs it - I think he's called Guy. I
told him they were destroying the context with that stupid path and he gave me
the crap about the americans with disabilities act. It really looks
completely false - worse than ever.
I still remember being at Tupelo in '78 and speaking to one of the women from
the Garden Heights club (one of those Billie or Bobby names) and when I asked
her Jesse, she took me over the hill at the back and pointed to where he was
buried. She said he wasn't buried in Priceville.
Like Richard, I've never felt anything about the house itself but we shouldn't
have any doubt that Tupelo was a big factor in moulding Elvis. That guy who's
quoted on their 'story wall' from Shakerag who clearly remembers the black kids
and white kids playing together and E going along to their singings - that will
have shaped Elvis.
I went to East Trigg Baptist on Sunday and it was a pretty powerful service,
singing and preaching. The pastor kicked off the service by welcoming the
congregation and saying it was particularly nice to see an "integrated
congregation" - me. It was pretty intimidating going in as I didn't want to
make the churchgoers uncomfortable but they welcomed me with open arms
(literally) and treated me very well. I can't even beging to understand
Elvis' feelings when he went there. Maybe Bill will be able to explain it but
I certainly feel that Tupelo will only have helped his comfort level with black
music and, through that, people.
You can talk and you can talk
Keeping Elvis #1
Ian
(remove 'Naespam' from address for email)
MARTY
"IWMackay" <iwma...@aol.comNaeSpam> wrote in message
news:20050111174459...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Back in the 50's when Elvis went to East Trigg it usually was very
intergrated. there were a number of whites in the audience including me.
The main feature of those services was the music and Dr. W. Herbert Brewster
the preacher who could really talk that talk. He was dynamic and he was
great to listen to, as was the music, no matter what your religion.
Marty
freed...@aol.com
service,
singing and preaching. The pastor kicked off the service by welcoming
the
congregation and saying it was particularly nice to see an "integrated
congregation" - me. It was pretty intimidating going in as I didn't
want to
make the churchgoers uncomfortable but they welcomed me with open arms
(literally) and treated me very well. I can't even beging to
understand
Elvis' feelings when he went there. Maybe Bill will be able to
explain it but
I certainly feel that Tupelo will only have helped his comfort level
with black
music and, through that, people.
You can talk and you can talk
Keeping Elvis #1
Ian
>
Ian,
You always do the most interesting things during Elvis week.
I have wanted to attend one of those services since I moved here.
Since you had such a pleasant experience, now I really want to
do it even more.