This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... It ain't ABOUT George Bush!, geeSUS! Don't fall into this trap. Look, this is between John Kerry and the Swift boat vets, NOT Bush! Kerry apparantly diss's a bunch of swift boat vets *in* Viet Nam, and worse yet, when he came *back*!, THAT is the issue here. He came back to the states to sit there on TV and senate panels and RAILED on these vets calling them baby killers, and murders and the like, so what the fuck does he EXPECT? Kerry had to either address these issues, or explain his actions. You simply CAN'T do what he did and expect NOT to get called on it. He throws his metals away, now wants to put them back on and run for president. He diss's on his fellow vets both in Viet Nam, and then when he comes back, now he wants to discredit them yet AGAIN now, calling them Bush attack dogs. The more Kerry pushed this, the worse its gonna get for him. These Swift boat vets are PISSED, and its *old* vengence, and thats the worst kind. Kerry fucked these people back them, squeeled on them when he came back and called them baby killers, and now calling them Bush cronies - what the fuck could he POSSIBLY expect these vets to do? - kiss his ass?
And so WHAT if someone paid $200,000 to make the ad? Say the ad was FREE to produce (and it wasn't!), worst case would be that they directly PAID each of the 200+ vets. That would be LESS than $1,000 each, and there is NO way a Viet Nam vet is gonna sell out their honor for less than $1,000. And since the mechanics of making TV ads *is* expensive, (worst case again), say it took only $100K to make, that would be less than $500 to each vet for his story. Again, I can't see no vet like this selling our their honor for $500.
Further, the Dems spent THREE million on THEIR ads, and then they get all bent over $100-$200K that didn't EVEN come directly from the Republicans (where the 3 million of the Dems DID!).
Kerry has to be accountable for this, and his actions when he came back to the states when he railed on these vets like this. It would be MUCH MUCH different if Kerry *didn't* throw his metals down, and if he *didn't* do all that senate panel, and TV stuff back in 1971 and was just a regular Viet Nam soldier. For if he WAS, I'd be taking his same position about these ad's, I really would. But the issue * I S * the Swift boat vets ! - he NEEDS to face this, and address it, and thats all there is to it!.
And NOW (to boot)! Kerry is trying to squash free speech and file complaints, and trying to stop the book. Can you feature THAT ? Then he won't release his records. But again, this is about Switft boats vets, and really IS between Kerry and these vets, no one else. Further, its not really even a Dem issue either - its strictly a Kerry v vet issue, and we should just sit back and let Kerry handle it. I'm sorry, I just can't believe that there are 200+ Swift boat vets that are just out for some money to say these things. I heard with my own ears all the things that Kerry said about these vets in 71, and there is no wonder in my mind why we're at this crossroad. People who do things like Kerry did in 9171 just simply has to be accountable for this, thats all. Just like he says Bush needs to be accountale, Kerry needs to be accountable for what he did/said, even IF it was 35 years ago!. This was harsh shit that he said/did to his fellow vets, and it WON'T easily go away, so for Kerry to expect anything ELSE is simply not reasonable.
In case you have trouble, in the part where he refers to atrocities:
"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."
He is saying *what other soldiers told him they did*.
Now, go on and tell me that there were no atrocities committed ib Viet Nam. I'd love to shove that down your throat, too.
ROTFLMAO!!! The ads are paid for by a friend of bush, and a major contributor to his campaigns, and you say they aren't about Bush? Whizzy, you are so pathetic, it's funny.
PlainBill
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:18:52 -0700, "Mr Wizzard" <W...@databasix.com> wrote:
>This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... >It ain't ABOUT George Bush!, geeSUS! Don't fall into this trap. >Look, this is between John Kerry and the Swift boat vets, NOT >Bush! Kerry apparantly diss's a bunch of swift boat vets *in* >Viet Nam, and worse yet, when he came *back*!, THAT is the >issue here. He came back to the states to sit there on TV and >senate panels and RAILED on these vets calling them baby >killers, and murders and the like, so what the fuck does he EXPECT? >Kerry had to either address these issues, or explain his actions. >You simply CAN'T do what he did and expect NOT to get >called on it. He throws his metals away, now wants to put them >back on and run for president. He diss's on his fellow vets both >in Viet Nam, and then when he comes back, now he wants to >discredit them yet AGAIN now, calling them Bush attack dogs. >The more Kerry pushed this, the worse its gonna get for him. >These Swift boat vets are PISSED, and its *old* vengence, >and thats the worst kind. Kerry fucked these people back them, >squeeled on them when he came back and called them baby >killers, and now calling them Bush cronies - what the fuck >could he POSSIBLY expect these vets to do? - kiss his ass?
> And so WHAT if someone paid $200,000 to make the ad? >Say the ad was FREE to produce (and it wasn't!), worst case >would be that they directly PAID each of the 200+ vets. That >would be LESS than $1,000 each, and there is NO way a >Viet Nam vet is gonna sell out their honor for less than $1,000. >And since the mechanics of making TV ads *is* expensive, >(worst case again), say it took only $100K to make, that >would be less than $500 to each vet for his story. Again, >I can't see no vet like this selling our their honor for $500.
> Further, the Dems spent THREE million on THEIR ads, >and then they get all bent over $100-$200K that didn't >EVEN come directly from the Republicans (where the >3 million of the Dems DID!).
> Kerry has to be accountable for this, and his actions >when he came back to the states when he railed on >these vets like this. It would be MUCH MUCH different >if Kerry *didn't* throw his metals down, and if he *didn't* >do all that senate panel, and TV stuff back in 1971 and >was just a regular Viet Nam soldier. For if he WAS, I'd >be taking his same position about these ad's, I really would. >But the issue * I S * the Swift boat vets ! - he NEEDS to >face this, and address it, and thats all there is to it!.
> And NOW (to boot)! Kerry is trying to squash free >speech and file complaints, and trying to stop the book. >Can you feature THAT ? Then he won't release his records. >But again, this is about Switft boats vets, and really IS >between Kerry and these vets, no one else. Further, >its not really even a Dem issue either - its strictly a >Kerry v vet issue, and we should just sit back and >let Kerry handle it. I'm sorry, I just can't believe that >there are 200+ Swift boat vets that are just out for >some money to say these things. I heard with my own >ears all the things that Kerry said about these vets in >71, and there is no wonder in my mind why we're at >this crossroad. People who do things like Kerry did >in 9171 just simply has to be accountable for this, >thats all. Just like he says Bush needs to be accountale, >Kerry needs to be accountable for what he did/said, >even IF it was 35 years ago!. This was harsh shit >that he said/did to his fellow vets, and it WON'T >easily go away, so for Kerry to expect anything ELSE >is simply not reasonable.
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine
> In article <cg70f9$ar...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>, "Mr Wizzard" > <W...@databasix.com> wrote: > [total bullshit about Kerry "railing" at vets and calling them baby > killers]
> > I heard with my own ears all the things that Kerry said about these vets > > in 71.
> In case you have trouble, in the part where he refers to atrocities:
> "They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, > cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and > turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at > civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot > cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the > countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and > the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied > bombing power of this country."
> He is saying *what other soldiers told him they did*.
He also said that HE personally took part in that activity. But that wasn't my POINT! My POINT was that these "other soldiers" are the ones that are now pissed, as in the "other" Swiftboat soldiers (who would of BEEN the other soldiers that told him they did) since the Swiftboat Vets are the ones that he ate/drink/slept/worked with in Nam.
> Now, go on and tell me that there were no atrocities committed > ib Viet Nam. I'd love to shove that down your throat, too.
Yer as bad as they are actually - just "itching" to lash out. You're missing the point really... This little "riff" is *really* between Kerry and these S.B.Vets, and thats all there is to it, and its pretty much out of anyone of *our* hands, as this is old wounds that he opened up, and he's gonna have to face/address it on his own with these SB Vets.
>This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... >It ain't ABOUT George Bush!, geeSUS! Don't fall into this trap. >Look, this is between John Kerry and the Swift boat vets, NOT >Bush! Kerry apparantly diss's a bunch of swift boat vets *in* >Viet Nam, and worse yet, when he came *back*!, THAT is the >issue here. He came back to the states to sit there on TV and >senate panels and RAILED on these vets calling them baby >killers, and murders and the like, so what the fuck does he EXPECT? >Kerry had to either address these issues, or explain his actions. >You simply CAN'T do what he did and expect NOT to get >called on it. He throws his metals away, now wants to put them >back on and run for president. He diss's on his fellow vets both >in Viet Nam, and then when he comes back, now he wants to >discredit them yet AGAIN now, calling them Bush attack dogs. >The more Kerry pushed this, the worse its gonna get for him. >These Swift boat vets are PISSED, and its *old* vengence, >and thats the worst kind. Kerry fucked these people back them, >squeeled on them when he came back and called them baby >killers, and now calling them Bush cronies - what the fuck >could he POSSIBLY expect these vets to do? - kiss his ass?
> And so WHAT if someone paid $200,000 to make the ad? >Say the ad was FREE to produce (and it wasn't!), worst case >would be that they directly PAID each of the 200+ vets. That >would be LESS than $1,000 each, and there is NO way a >Viet Nam vet is gonna sell out their honor for less than $1,000. >And since the mechanics of making TV ads *is* expensive, >(worst case again), say it took only $100K to make, that >would be less than $500 to each vet for his story. Again, >I can't see no vet like this selling our their honor for $500.
> Further, the Dems spent THREE million on THEIR ads, >and then they get all bent over $100-$200K that didn't >EVEN come directly from the Republicans (where the >3 million of the Dems DID!).
> Kerry has to be accountable for this, and his actions >when he came back to the states when he railed on >these vets like this. It would be MUCH MUCH different >if Kerry *didn't* throw his metals down, and if he *didn't* >do all that senate panel, and TV stuff back in 1971 and >was just a regular Viet Nam soldier. For if he WAS, I'd >be taking his same position about these ad's, I really would. >But the issue * I S * the Swift boat vets ! - he NEEDS to >face this, and address it, and thats all there is to it!.
> And NOW (to boot)! Kerry is trying to squash free >speech and file complaints, and trying to stop the book. >Can you feature THAT ? Then he won't release his records. >But again, this is about Switft boats vets, and really IS >between Kerry and these vets, no one else. Further, >its not really even a Dem issue either - its strictly a >Kerry v vet issue, and we should just sit back and >let Kerry handle it. I'm sorry, I just can't believe that >there are 200+ Swift boat vets that are just out for >some money to say these things. I heard with my own >ears all the things that Kerry said about these vets in >71, and there is no wonder in my mind why we're at >this crossroad. People who do things like Kerry did >in 9171 just simply has to be accountable for this, >thats all. Just like he says Bush needs to be accountale, >Kerry needs to be accountable for what he did/said, >even IF it was 35 years ago!. This was harsh shit >that he said/did to his fellow vets, and it WON'T >easily go away, so for Kerry to expect anything ELSE >is simply not reasonable.
``~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`` The New York Times August 20, 2004 Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Anti-Kerry Ad By KATE ZERNIKE and JIM RUTENBERG
After weeks of taking fire over veterans' accusations that he had lied about his Vietnam service record to win medals and build a political career, Senator John Kerry shot back yesterday, calling those statements categorically false and branding the people behind them tools of the Bush campaign.
His decision to take on the group directly was a measure of how the group that calls itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has catapulted itself to the forefront of the presidential campaign. It has advanced its cause in a book, in a television advertisement and on cable news and talk radio shows, all in an attempt to discredit Mr. Kerry's war record, a pillar of his campaign.
How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans...
... A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove.
... the group's television commercial was produced by the same team that made the devastating ad mocking Michael S. Dukakis in an oversized tank helmet when he and Mr. Bush's father faced off in the 1988 presidential election.
The strategy the veterans devised would ultimately paint John Kerry the war hero as John Kerry the "baby killer" and the fabricator of the events that resulted in his war medals. But on close examination, the accounts of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' prove to be riddled with inconsistencies. In many cases, material offered as proof by these veterans is undercut by official Navy records and the men's own statements.
Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry "unfit" had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year.
In an unpublished interview in March 2003 with Mr. Kerry's authorized biographer, Douglas Brinkley, provided by Mr. Brinkley to The New York Times, Roy F. Hoffmann, a retired rear admiral and a leader of the group, allowed that he had disagreed with Mr. Kerry's antiwar positions but said, "I am not going to say anything negative about him." He added, "He's a good man."
In a profile of the candidate that ran in The Boston Globe in June 2003, Mr. Hoffmann approvingly recalled the actions that led to Mr. Kerry's Silver Star: "It took guts, and I admire that."
George Elliott, one of the Vietnam veterans in the group, flew from his home in Delaware to Boston in 1996 to stand up for Mr. Kerry during a tough re-election fight, declaring at a news conference that the action that won Mr. Kerry a Silver Star was "an act of courage." At that same event, Adrian L. Lonsdale, another Vietnam veteran now speaking out against Mr. Kerry, supported him with a statement about the "bravado and courage of the young officers that ran the Swift boats."
"Senator Kerry was no exception," Mr. Lonsdale told the reporters and cameras assembled at the Charlestown Navy Yard. "He was among the finest of those Swift boat drivers."
Those comments echoed the official record. In an evaluation of Mr. Kerry in 1969, Mr. Elliott, who was one of his commanders, ranked him as "not exceeded" in 11 categories, including moral courage, judgment and decisiveness, and "one of the top few" - the second-highest distinction - in the remaining five. In written comments, he called Mr. Kerry "unsurpassed," "beyond reproach" and "the acknowledged leader in his peer group."
... It all began last winter, as Mr. Kerry was wrapping up the Democratic nomination. Mr. Lonsdale received a call at his Massachusetts home from his old commander in Vietnam, Mr. Hoffmann, asking if he had seen the new biography of the man who would be president.
Mr. Hoffmann had commanded the Swift boats during the war from a base in Cam Ranh Bay and advocated a search-and-destroy campaign against the Vietcong - the kind of tactic Mr. Kerry criticized when he was a spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War in 1971. Shortly after leaving the Navy in 1978, he [Hoffman] was issued a letter of censure for exercising undue influence on cases in the military justice system.
Both Mr. Hoffmann and Mr. Lonsdale had publicly lauded Mr. Kerry in the past. But the book, Mr. Brinkley's "Tour of Duty," while it burnished Mr. Kerry's reputation, portrayed the two men as reckless leaders whose military approach had led to the deaths of countless sailors and innocent civilians. Several Swift boat veterans compared Mr. Hoffmann to the bloodthirsty colonel in the film "Apocalypse Now" - the one who loves the smell of Napalm in the morning.
... Mr. Hoffmann's phone calls led them to Texas and to John E. O'Neill, who at one point commanded the same Swift boat in Vietnam, and whose mission against him dated to 1971, when he had been recruited by the Nixon administration to debate Mr. Kerry on "The Dick Cavett Show."
... About 10 veterans met in Ms. Spaeth's office in Dallas in April to share outrage and plot their campaign against Mr. Kerry, she and others said. Mr. Lonsdale, who did not attend, said the meeting had been planned as "an indoctrination session."
What might have been loose impressions about Mr. Kerry began to harden.
"That was an awakening experience," Ms. Spaeth said. "Not just for me, but for many of them who had not heard each other's stories."
The group decided to hire a private investigator to investigate Mr. Brinkley's account of the war - to find "some neutral way of actually questioning people involved in these incidents,'' Mr. O'Neill said.
But the investigator's questions did not seem neutral to some.
Patrick Runyon, who served on a mission with Mr. Kerry, said he initially thought the caller was from a pro-Kerry group, and happily gave a statement about the night Mr. Kerry won his first Purple Heart. The investigator said he would send it to him by e-mail for his signature. Mr. Runyon said the edited version was stripped of all references to enemy combat, making it look like just another night in the Mekong Delta.
"It made it sound like I didn't believe we got any returned fire," he said. "He made it sound like it was a
...
>"jet" <j...@untool.net> wrote in message >news:_OqdnTpaaaBLvrrcRVn-iQ@adelphia.com... >> In article <cg70f9$ar...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>, "Mr Wizzard" >> <W...@databasix.com> wrote: >> [total bullshit about Kerry "railing" at vets and calling them baby >> killers]
>> > I heard with my own ears all the things that Kerry said about these vets >> > in 71.
>> In case you have trouble, in the part where he refers to atrocities:
>> "They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, >> cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and >> turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at >> civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot >> cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the >> countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and >> the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied >> bombing power of this country."
>> He is saying *what other soldiers told him they did*.
>He also said that HE personally took part in that activity. >But that wasn't my POINT! My POINT was that these >"other soldiers" are the ones that are now pissed, as in the >"other" Swiftboat soldiers (who would of BEEN the other >soldiers that told him they did) since the Swiftboat Vets >are the ones that he ate/drink/slept/worked with in Nam.
Of the Swiftboat Vets who actually WERE the ones who "ate/drink/slept/worked" with [Kerry] in Nam", three of those veterans on Kerry's boat that day - Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] was lying.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] account "pure fabrication."
>> Now, go on and tell me that there were no atrocities committed >> ib Viet Nam. I'd love to shove that down your throat, too.
>Yer as bad as they are actually - just "itching" to lash out. >You're missing the point really... This little "riff" is *really* >between Kerry and these S.B.Vets, and thats all there is >to it, and its pretty much out of anyone of *our* hands, >as this is old wounds that he opened up, and he's gonna >have to face/address it on his own with these SB Vets.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group O'Neill helped form, has taken out $500,000 in TV advertising challenging Kerry's highly decorated war record, claiming stories of his heroism were fabricated, and that he wasn't entitled to two of the three Purple Hearts or the Bronze and Silver stars he was awarded.
From his earliest campaign ads, including at least two aired in Tucson, through his rousing speech at the Democratic National Convention, Kerry has highlighted his service in Vietnam as evidence of his leadership ability, particularly at a time of war.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads, running in Ohio, Wisconsin and West Virginia, but not Arizona, say the group formed to "provide solid factual information" about Kerry's tour of duty.
The group includes veterans who served on Swift boats in Vietnam, including some of the commanders who recommended Kerry for the awards they now say he didn't deserve.
Although none served under his command, they say they were close enough to the 1969 events - in some cases within 50 yards - to know the truth.
Although they aren't affiliated with the Republican Party, they are backed by several of the party's longtime big contributors and activists.
A number of them have acknowledged they are still bitter toward Kerry for his highly vocal role more than 30 years ago in Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and his 1971 statements that American soldiers, himself included, committed war crimes in Vietnam.
The anti-Kerry ads are something of a role-reversal from a few months ago, when some top Democratic leaders were questioning President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard during Vietnam.
Although the National Guard has been a prime source of personnel for Iraq, in the Vietnam era it was generally seen as an alternative to being drafted and sent to Vietnam.
In February, Kerry asked his Democratic colleagues to stop challenging Bush on that issue, but stopped short of repudiating their charges.
Similarly, the Bush White House has neither endorsed nor denounced the ad criticizing Kerry's war record, nor asked the group to withdraw it.
Thirty-seven years after the fact the challenge against Kerry's service boils down to one side's word versus the other's. Military records and statements by most crewmen who served with him support Kerry's side, while the recollections of nearly 200 veterans who served at the same time disagree.
This is what is known about the points raised in the dueling TV versions of history:
* Kerry enlisted in 1966, while still a student at Yale. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and to command a Swift boat.
* President Bush enlisted in the National Guard in 1968.
* John O'Neill, one of the founders of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, took over Kerry's command when Kerry was sent home after being awarded his third Purple Heart.
White House tapes from 1971 show O'Neill was recruited by Chuck Colson, then an aide to Republican President Nixon, to debate Kerry on the Dick Cavett Show over Kerry's claims Americans were committing war crimes, and to appear at news conferences. Colson was later convicted for his role in Watergate.
* Merrie Spaeth, the anti-Kerry group's Dallas-based media representative, is a former White House media director under Republican President Reagan. She was a communications consultant to Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr during his investigation of Democratic President Bill Clinton. She gave a maximum $2,000 to the Bush re-election campaign, and has given about $5,000 to other national GOP candidates since 2000.
* As of their last campaign finance filing, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth received $100,000 of their $158,000 in contributions from Bob J. Perry, a Houston home builder. He has contributed at least $260,000 to national Republican candidates and organizations over the last five years. He also gave maximum $2,000 contributions to the Bush 2004 re-election campaign and to Attorney General John Ashcroft's unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign in 2000.
* Significant political contributions could be found for only two leaders of the anti-Kerry group.
* Eleven of the 12 men who actually served with Kerry support his version of events, according to Scripps Howard News Service.
* Although none of Kerry's detractors served on the same boat, retired Adm. Roy F. Hoffmann said they were operating 25 to 50 yards away, while others have described the distance as "a few yards." By contrast, "Tour of Duty," a Kerry biography, describes his wounds and the rescue of Army Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann that resulted in one Purple Heart and his Bronze Star as happening "several hundred yards" from the second boat involved.
The detractors also deny Kerry was under enemy fire when he pulled Rassmann from a river, a claim Rassmann disputes and that is inconsistent with the Navy citation accompanying the award. Rassman is featured in pro-Kerry ads.
In a May interview with the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Hoffmann said he didn't have any firsthand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims.
* A sworn statement by Dr. Louis Letson claims he treated Kerry for a shrapnel wound in the arm that led to his first Purple Heart. He described the wound as a "slight injury" and says a Kerry crewman told him there was no hostile fire and the shrapnel was from a grenade Kerry had thrown himself.
But military medical records provided by the Kerry campaign to the nonpartisan Annenberg Institute show he was treated by a J.C. Carreon, not Letson, and Kerry crewmates deny talking to Letson.
* Navy Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, Kerry's former commander, who appears in the anti-Kerry ad, signed a statement saying he turned down the request for Kerry's first Purple Heart because the wound was insignificant. But in a Boston Globe interview in April, Hibbard acknowledged he eventually acquiesced to the award, despite having questions.
Also, Hibbard's statement describing the wound as "a tiny scratch, less than from a rose thorn" is inconsistent with Letson's description of it as shrapnel lodged in the arm.
Much of Hibbard's statement is devoted to criticizing Kerry for "betrayal of his shipmates" for his anti-war activities after returning from Vietnam.
* Former Lt. Commander George Elliott, another former Kerry commander who appears in the anti-Kerry ad, retracted his comments Thursday, saying he made "a terrible mistake" when he said Kerry didn't deserve a Silver Star for shooting a Viet Cong who was carrying a rocket launcher.
It was Elliott who glowingly recommended Kerry for that award in 1969, and he said he still believes Kerry deserves it. He also recommended Kerry for the Bronze Star.
Elliott said he felt pressured to sign the statement presented by the group because it was rushing to put out an anti-Kerry book before the election.
The little *rift* as you call it is sponsored by GWB and his chief political advisor Karl Rove along with several of the GOP's longtime big contributors and activists such as Rove's pal staunch Republican Houston builder Bob J. Perry who contributed well over $100,000 to the dishonorable and dishonest so-called
...
> He also said that HE personally took part in that activity. > But that wasn't my POINT! My POINT was that these > "other soldiers" are the ones that are now pissed, as in the
They're pissed about something he said 35 years ago, that was true. It's time they got over it and stopped living in denial, like other vets have.
> "other" Swiftboat soldiers (who would of BEEN the other > soldiers that told him they did)
Wrong. The "other soldiers" were soldiers who had served all over Viet Nam, not Swift Boat Vets, who participated in Project Winter Soldier. The point of Winter Soldier was not that soldiers committed war crimes (as it is extensively documented they did) but that the war was damaging to the lives, minds and futures of the soldiers. In retrospect, can you deny that was true?
> since the Swiftboat Vets > are the ones that he ate/drink/slept/worked with in Nam.
The vast majority of the Swift Boat Vets for Truth have never met Kerry, nor did they serve in the same area or at the same time he did. In case you didn't know, there were -thousands- of Swift Boat vets. The 200 supporting Bush are a very small percentage and the more vocal ones have all been shown to have grudges against Kerry for things unrelated to his post war activism.
> > He also said that HE personally took part in that activity. > > But that wasn't my POINT! My POINT was that these > > "other soldiers" are the ones that are now pissed, as in the
> They're pissed about something he said 35 years ago, that was true. > It's time they got over it and stopped living in denial, like other vets > have.
No!, therein lie the problem. They have the RIGHT to call him on in, and in my opinion, the moral obligation to do so. This cat is running for president for gaqd sakes, and if he has unfinished business about some war stuff, then by golly, it high time for him to be accountable for it and address it. Besides the whole honor, and moral aspects of it, its all free speech. If Kerry wouldn't have dredged all this up he wouldn't be in this mess. Moreover, if Kerry didn't DO all that diss'n shit to these vetc in the FIRST place, wouldn't even be at issue.
> > "other" Swiftboat soldiers (who would of BEEN the other > > soldiers that told him they did)
> Wrong. The "other soldiers" were soldiers who had served all over > Viet Nam, not Swift Boat Vets, who participated in Project > Winter Soldier. The point of Winter Soldier was not that soldiers > committed war crimes (as it is extensively documented they did) but > that the war was damaging to the lives, minds and futures of the > soldiers. In retrospect, can you deny that was true?
> > since the Swiftboat Vets > > are the ones that he ate/drink/slept/worked with in Nam.
> The vast majority of the Swift Boat Vets for Truth have never met > Kerry, nor did they serve in the same area or at the same time he did. > In case you didn't know, there were -thousands- of Swift Boat vets. > The 200 supporting Bush are a very small percentage and the > more vocal ones have all been shown to have grudges against Kerry > for things unrelated to his post war activism.
> > > He also said that HE personally took part in that activity. > > > But that wasn't my POINT! My POINT was that these > > > "other soldiers" are the ones that are now pissed, as in the
> > They're pissed about something he said 35 years ago, that was true. > > It's time they got over it and stopped living in denial, like other vets > > have.
> No!, therein lie the problem. They have the RIGHT to call > him on in, and in my opinion, the moral obligation to do so. > This cat is running for president for gaqd sakes, and if he has > unfinished business about some war stuff, then by golly, it high > time for him to be accountable for it and address it. Besides
It's all been addressed. It's all been accounted for. The Swift Boat Vets for Truth lied and it's been proved, over and over. There's no unfinished business.
> the whole honor, and moral aspects of it, its all free speech. > If Kerry wouldn't have dredged all this up he wouldn't be in > this mess. Moreover, if Kerry didn't DO all that diss'n shit > to these vetc in the FIRST place, wouldn't even be at issue.
He didn't, you illiterate clod. Tell you what; you show me where he "dissed" Viet Nam vets.
I'm not calling YOU names here in this thread, and on this issue, so why must YOU resort to this kind of emotional behaviour with me here ? Change your ways, and maybe we can continue.
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 04:40:39 GMT, "Mr Wizzard" <w...@muffy-mail.com> wrote:
>No!, therein lie the problem. They have the RIGHT to call >him on in, and in my opinion, the moral obligation to do so.
They (The so-called Swift Boat Vets for Truth) have a right to LIE about what happened in Viet Nam??
William B. Rood an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry.
Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said that Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised by their superiors.
He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.
"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's Tribune.
Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force and is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.
By William B. Rood Chicago Tribune Published August 22, 2004
There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago--three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969.
One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.
For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions.
Many of us wanted to put it all behind us--the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry's service--even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work.
But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there.
Even though Kerry's own crew members have backed him, the attacks have continued, and in recent days Kerry has called me and others who were with him in those days, asking that we go public with our accounts.
I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me, but that is not why I am writing this. What matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again talk publicly about it.
I was part of the operation that led to Kerry's Silver Star. I have no firsthand knowledge of the events that resulted in his winning the Purple Hearts or the Bronze Star.
But on Feb. 28, 1969, I was officer in charge of PCF-23, one of three swift boats--including Kerry's PCF-94 and Lt. j.g. Donald Droz's PCF-43--that carried Vietnamese regional and Popular Force troops and a Navy demolition team up the Dong Cung, a narrow tributary of the Bay Hap River, to conduct a sweep in the area.
The approach of the noisy 50-foot aluminum boats, each driven by two huge 12-cylinder diesels and loaded down with six crew members, troops and gear, was no secret.
Ambushes were a virtual certainty, and that day was no exception.
Instructions from Kerry
The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush.
We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews about the plan.
The Viet Cong in the area had come to expect that the heavily loaded boats would lumber on past an ambush, firing at the entrenched attackers, beaching upstream and putting troops ashore to sweep back down on the ambush site. Often, they were long gone by the time the troops got there.
The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.
Meanwhile, Kerry ordered our boat to head upstream with his, leaving Droz's boat at the first site.
It happened again, another ambush. And again, Kerry ordered the turn maneuver, and again it worked. As we headed for the riverbank, I remember seeing a loaded B-40 launcher pointed at the boats. It wasn't fired as two men jumped up from their spider holes.
We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ.
With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby.
Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation.
John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore.
The man Kerry chased was not the "lone" attacker at that site, as O'Neill suggests. There were others who fled. There was also firing from the tree line well behind the spider holes and at one point, from the opposite riverbank as well. It was not the work of just one attacker.
Our initial reports of the day's action caused an immediate response from our task force headquarters in Cam Ranh Bay.
Congratulatory message
Known over radio circuits by the call sign "Latch," then-Capt. and now retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, fired off a message congratulating the three swift boats, saying at one point that the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of completely overwhelming the enemy" and that it "may be the most efficacious method of dealing with small numbers of ambushers."
Hoffmann has become a leading critic of Kerry's and now says that what the boats did on that day demonstrated Kerry's inclination to be impulsive to a fault.
Our decision to use that tactic under the right circumstances was not impulsive but was the result of discussions well beforehand and a mutual agreement of all three boat officers.
It was also well within the aggressive tradition that was embraced by the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, then commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam. Months before that day in February, a fellow boat officer, Michael Bernique, was summoned to Saigon to explain to top Navy commanders why he had made an unauthorized run up the Giang Thanh River, which runs along the Vietnam-Cambodia border. Bernique, who speaks French fluently, had been told by a source in Ha Tien at the mouth of the river that a VC tax collector was operating upstream.
Ignoring the prohibition against it, Bernique and his crew went upstream and routed the VC, pursuing and killing several.
Instead of facing disciplinary action as he had expected, Bernique was given the Silver Star, and Zumwalt ordered other swifts, which had largely patrolled coastal waters, into the rivers.
The decision sent a clear message, underscored repeatedly by Hoffmann's congratulatory messages, that aggressive patrolling was expected and that well-timed, if unconventional, tactics like Bernique's were encouraged.
What we did on Feb. 28, 1969, was well in line with the tone set by our top commanders.
Zumwalt made that clear when he flew down to our base at An Thoi off the southern tip of Vietnam to pin the Silver Star on Kerry and assorted Bronze Stars and commendation medals on the rest of us.
Error in citation
My Bronze Star citation, signed by Zumwalt, praised the charge tactic we used that day, saying the VC were
...
>I'm not calling YOU names here in this thread, >and on this issue, so why must YOU resort to >this kind of emotional behaviour with me here ? >Change your ways, and maybe we can continue.
And once again Whizzy runs away when faced with facts. Whizzy, you should face the truth - you ARE an illiterate clod. Your claims have no merit. You are a wart on the internet.
PlainBill He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine
>>No!, therein lie the problem. They have the RIGHT to call >>him on in, and in my opinion, the moral obligation to do so. >They (The so-called Swift Boat Vets for Truth) have a right to LIE >about what happened in Viet Nam??
>William B. Rood an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, >said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission >that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent >portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book >"Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans >who served with Kerry.
>Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, >said that Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet >Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that >was praised by their superiors.
>He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" >untrue.
>"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts >on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has >splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those >of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, >especially when they come from people who were not there," Rood said >in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's Tribune.
>Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip >of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his >citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing >after-action report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and >Kerry's task force and is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.
>By William B. Rood >Chicago Tribune >Published August 22, 2004
>There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more >than 35 years ago--three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of >those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, >1969.
>One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a >Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.
>For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus >of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat >veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver >Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple >Hearts he was awarded for other actions.
>Many of us wanted to put it all behind us--the rivers, the ambushes, >the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for >interviews about Kerry's service--even those from reporters at the >Chicago Tribune, where I work.
>But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have >charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown. The critics >have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit >of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on >all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were >there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they >come from people who were not there.
>Even though Kerry's own crew members have backed him, the attacks have >continued, and in recent days Kerry has called me and others who were >with him in those days, asking that we go public with our accounts.
>I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me, but that is not why I >am writing this. What matters most to me is that this is hurting >crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for >what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again >talk publicly about it.
>I was part of the operation that led to Kerry's Silver Star. I have no >firsthand knowledge of the events that resulted in his winning the >Purple Hearts or the Bronze Star.
>But on Feb. 28, 1969, I was officer in charge of PCF-23, one of three >swift boats--including Kerry's PCF-94 and Lt. j.g. Donald Droz's >PCF-43--that carried Vietnamese regional and Popular Force troops and >a Navy demolition team up the Dong Cung, a narrow tributary of the Bay >Hap River, to conduct a sweep in the area.
>The approach of the noisy 50-foot aluminum boats, each driven by two >huge 12-cylinder diesels and loaded down with six crew members, troops >and gear, was no secret.
>Ambushes were a virtual certainty, and that day was no exception.
>Instructions from Kerry
>The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that >particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not >responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush.
>We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a >clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into >it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers >and beaching the boats. We told our crews about the plan.
>The Viet Cong in the area had come to expect that the heavily loaded >boats would lumber on past an ambush, firing at the entrenched >attackers, beaching upstream and putting troops ashore to sweep back >down on the ambush site. Often, they were long gone by the time the >troops got there.
>The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic >weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on >the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the >attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats >and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or >captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used >to stage ambushes.
>Meanwhile, Kerry ordered our boat to head upstream with his, leaving >Droz's boat at the first site.
>It happened again, another ambush. And again, Kerry ordered the turn >maneuver, and again it worked. As we headed for the riverbank, I >remember seeing a loaded B-40 launcher pointed at the boats. It wasn't >fired as two men jumped up from their spider holes.
>We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one >member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a >thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who >were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I >nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've >checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no >surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that >frequently differ.
>With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, >Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to >search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I >heard gunfire nearby.
>Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the >man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 >rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the >operation.
>John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam >service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a >"loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day >was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in >the kind of garb the VC usually wore.
>The man Kerry chased was not the "lone" attacker at that site, as >O'Neill suggests. There were others who fled. There was also firing >from the tree line well behind the spider holes and at one point, from >the opposite riverbank as well. It was not the work of just one >attacker.
>Our initial reports of the day's action caused an immediate response >from our task force headquarters in Cam Ranh Bay.
>Congratulatory message
>Known over radio circuits by the call sign "Latch," then-Capt. and now >retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, fired off a >message congratulating the three swift boats, saying at one point that >the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of >completely overwhelming the enemy" and that it "may be the most >efficacious method of dealing with small numbers of ambushers."
>Hoffmann has become a leading critic of Kerry's and now says that what >the boats did on that day demonstrated Kerry's inclination to be >impulsive to a fault.
>Our decision to use that tactic under the right circumstances was not >impulsive but was the result of discussions well beforehand and a >mutual agreement of all three boat officers.
>It was also well within the aggressive tradition that was embraced by >the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, then commander of U.S. Naval Forces, >Vietnam. Months before that day in February, a fellow boat officer, >Michael Bernique, was summoned to Saigon to explain to top Navy >commanders why he had made an unauthorized run up the Giang Thanh >River, which runs along the Vietnam-Cambodia border. Bernique, who >speaks French fluently, had been told by a source in Ha Tien at the >mouth of the river that a VC tax collector was operating upstream.
>Ignoring the prohibition against it, Bernique and his crew went >upstream and routed the VC, pursuing and killing several.
>Instead of facing disciplinary action as he had expected, Bernique was >given the Silver Star, and Zumwalt ordered other swifts, which had >largely patrolled coastal waters, into the rivers.
>The decision sent a clear message, underscored repeatedly by >Hoffmann's congratulatory messages, that aggressive patrolling was >expected and that well-timed, if unconventional, tactics like >Bernique's were encouraged.
>What we did on Feb. 28, 1969, was well in line with the tone set by >our top commanders.
>I'm not calling YOU names here in this thread, >and on this issue, so why must YOU resort to >this kind of emotional behaviour with me here ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Mr Wizzard (w...@muffy-mail.com) Subject: Re: EQ sold thousands of people out View: Complete Thread (143 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.dss.hack Date: 2004-02-08 13:10:11 PST
<snip>
So I'm a hypocrite/name caller (you already know this), and I never said I wasn't. [...]
> I'm not calling YOU names here in this thread, > and on this issue, so why must YOU resort to > this kind of emotional behaviour with me here ?
Because it's been proved to you, several times, that Kerry didn't accuse the vets of committing atrocities. He said, quite clearly and distinctly, that he was relaying the word of vets he'd spoken to as part of the Winter Soldier Investigation.
He could have, in pertfect honesty, said they were commiting atrocities, but he didn't.
-- War involves killing, and those who say otherwise are unrealistic at best. No war, however, need involve more than killing the armed enemy who will otherwise kill you. We need to understand this and be prepared to defend ourselves if and when the need arises. I want this book to increase understanding of those survival needs and truths... Compassion, respect for life and human dignity and, above all, honor, must distinguish us if we are worthy of surviving. I trust and hope that we will prove to be worthy of survival.
What's so amusing is that Swift Boat Vets for Truth was started by Roy Hoffmann, whose gung-ho encouragement to shoot anything that moved led to the massacre at Thanh Phong. His policy was to burn 'em out, then kill them.
-- War involves killing, and those who say otherwise are unrealistic at best. No war, however, need involve more than killing the armed enemy who will otherwise kill you. We need to understand this and be prepared to defend ourselves if and when the need arises. I want this book to increase understanding of those survival needs and truths... Compassion, respect for life and human dignity and, above all, honor, must distinguish us if we are worthy of surviving. I trust and hope that we will prove to be worthy of survival.
A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
>`This is what I saw that day'
[Bullshit snipped!]
Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be believed!
George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he received for his service!
It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! How can any true American not support our troops and our President by running for the office at this time? The election should simply be cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job well done!
The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus will punish you.
God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
<nob...@tatooine.homelinux.net> wrote: >A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
>>`This is what I saw that day'
>[Bullshit snipped!]
>Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with >John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift >Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be >believed!
>George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! >While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East >Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was >fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to >fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, >greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts >and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he >received for his service!
>It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth >who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. >Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the >baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his >pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The >frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the >baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry >the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man >with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
>John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He >frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI >and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, >THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever >trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family >are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of >whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
>Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! >How can any true American not support our troops and our President by >running for the office at this time? The election should simply be >cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
>President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him >naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND >ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under >thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who >now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush >then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having >found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, >brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The >terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go >on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for >with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job >well done!
>The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. >They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected >violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
>The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next >election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. >If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to >Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when >judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw >your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. >Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
>You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus >will punish you.
>God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
> A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
> >`This is what I saw that day'
> [Bullshit snipped!]
> Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with > John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift > Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be > believed!
> George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! > While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East > Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was > fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to > fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, > greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts > and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he > received for his service!
> It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth > who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. > Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the > baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his > pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The > frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the > baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry > the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man > with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
> John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He > frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI > and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, > THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever > trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family > are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of > whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
> Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! > How can any true American not support our troops and our President by > running for the office at this time? The election should simply be > cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
> President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him > naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND > ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under > thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who > now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush > then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having > found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, > brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The > terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go > on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for > with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job > well done!
> The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. > They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected > violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
> The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next > election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. > If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to > Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when > judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw > your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. > Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
> You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus > will punish you.
> God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
<giggle>
-- War involves killing, and those who say otherwise are unrealistic at best. No war, however, need involve more than killing the armed enemy who will otherwise kill you. We need to understand this and be prepared to defend ourselves if and when the need arises. I want this book to increase understanding of those survival needs and truths... Compassion, respect for life and human dignity and, above all, honor, must distinguish us if we are worthy of surviving. I trust and hope that we will prove to be worthy of survival.
<nob...@tatooine.homelinux.net> wrote: >A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
>>`This is what I saw that day'
>[Bullshit snipped!]
>Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with >John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift >Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be >believed!
>George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! >While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East >Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was >fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to >fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, >greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts >and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he >received for his service!
>It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth >who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. >Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the >baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his >pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The >frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the >baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry >the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man >with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
>John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He >frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI >and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, >THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever >trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family >are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of >whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
>Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! >How can any true American not support our troops and our President by >running for the office at this time? The election should simply be >cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
>President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him >naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND >ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under >thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who >now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush >then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having >found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, >brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The >terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go >on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for >with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job >well done!
>The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. >They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected >violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
>The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next >election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. >If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to >Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when >judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw >your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. >Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
>You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus >will punish you.
>God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
>>A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
>>>`This is what I saw that day'
>>[Bullshit snipped!]
>>Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with >>John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift >>Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be >>believed!
>>George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! >>While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East >>Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was >>fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to >>fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, >>greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts >>and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he >>received for his service!
>>It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth >>who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. >>Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the >>baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his >>pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The >>frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the >>baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry >>the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man >>with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
>>John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He >>frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI >>and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, >>THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever >>trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family >>are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of >>whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
>>Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! >>How can any true American not support our troops and our President by >>running for the office at this time? The election should simply be >>cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
>>President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him >>naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND >>ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under >>thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who >>now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush >>then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having >>found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, >>brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The >>terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go >>on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for >>with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job >>well done!
>>The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. >>They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected >>violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
>>The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next >>election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. >>If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to >>Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when >>judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw >>your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. >>Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
>>You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus >>will punish you.
>>God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
<nob...@tatooine.homelinux.net> wrote: >A liar says the John F. Kerry earned his silver star! He wrote:
>>`This is what I saw that day'
>[Bullshit snipped!]
>Lies! Lies! ALL LIES! Do not believe any one who says they were with >John F. Kerry the day he won his SILVER STAR! Nobody but Republican Swift >Boat Vets were there! Only THEY know the truth! Only they are to be >believed!
>George W. Bush is the greatest President in the history of the US of A! >While John F. Kerry was taking a vacation in the paradise of South East >Asia piloting a pleasure craft at TAX PAYER EXPENSE, George W. Bush was >fighting the Viet Cong in Texas and Alabama! George W. Bush was forced to >fly OBSOLETE aircraft on his secret missions to attack the Viet Cong, >greatly endangering his own life! John F. Kerry might have 3 purple hearts >and a Silver Star, but George W. Bush has 2 silver fillings, which he >received for his service!
>It is a well known fact that John F. Kerry killed a baby in a loin cloth >who was doing nothing more than shooting a pea shooter into the water. >Kerry disobeyed orders to just move along and come back later to see if the >baby in the loin cloth was still shooting peas, and instead charged his >pleasure craft, with guns blazing, into the baby's position. The >frightened baby fled, with his pea shooter still in hand. Kerry hunted the >baby down and killed him! The evil military complex awarded John F. Kerry >the silver star for killing a BABY! Then Kerry LIED and said it was a man >with a rocket launcher. Lies, all lies!
>John F. Kerry spent all of his youth in a drug induced stupor! He >frequently did cocaine and alcohol and was arrested several times for DUI >and for fighting with his own FATHER! JFK is a member of a secret society, >THE SKULL AND BONES, and went to a yuppie school: YALE. How can you ever >trust anyone who went there? Kerry is no Texas tiger! He and his family >are from Kennybunkport, MAINE! How can you trust New Englanders, all of >whom are LIBERALS, drunks and RICH!
>Now John F. Kerry wants to be President! He is opposing a WAR PRESIDENT! >How can any true American not support our troops and our President by >running for the office at this time? The election should simply be >cancelled! It should be illegal to run against a WAR PRESIDENT!
>President Bush has hunted down Osama Bin Ladin, captured him, stripped him >naked and had him whipped through the streets of NYC straight to GROUND >ZERO where Bin Ladin was executed by firing squad and his body buried under >thousands of tons of debris! President Bush has crushed the terrorists who >now fear and respect the US of A! Only after capturing Bin Ladin did Bush >then turn to the other evil empire of the middle east, IRAQ, and, having >found thousands of nuclear weapons about to be dropped on the US of A, >brought down the NEW HITLER! America is now safer than ever before. The >terror alert level has been dismantled. We are completely safe and can go >on with our lives. The cost of the IRAQ war has been completely paid for >with free oil, which the IRAQI people gave to us in gratitude for a job >well done!
>The IRAQI people love America. They welcomed us with flowers and candy. >They want to be a Christian Nation just like us! They have rejected >violence and Islam! This is the great legacy of George W. Bush!
>The late President Regan and Jesus have teamed up to monitor the next >election. Regan's ghost will be present in every voting both in America. >If you don't vote for George W. Bush, Regan's ghost will report directly to >Jesus your disloyalty. Jesus will place your name in THE BOOK and when >judgement day comes, Jesus, his eyes blazing with lazerbeams, will throw >your filthy soul into the lake of fire. But if you vote for George W. >Bush, you will have 69 virgins in heaven to fuck.
>You must now copy this message and send it to 10 of your friends or Jesus >will punish you.
>God Bless America and George W. Bush, the greatest president ever!
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:18:52 -0700, "Mr Wizzard" <W...@databasix.com> wrote:
>This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... >It ain't ABOUT George Bush! <snip>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lawyer Advising Vets Quits Bush Campaign
Bush Campaign Lawyer Resigns Over Anti-Kerry Ads
By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - One of President Bush's top lawyers resigned from his campaign Wednesday, a day after disclosing that he had given legal advice to a veterans group airing TV ads challenging Democrat John Kerry's Vietnam War service. The guidance included checking ad scripts, the group said.
Benjamin Ginsberg, who also represented Bush in the 2000 Florida recount that made the Republican president, told Bush in a letter that he felt his legal work for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had become a distraction for the re-election campaign.
The Kerry campaign portrayed Ginsberg's departure as another sign of ties between the Bush campaign and the veterans group, which has been airing ads accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam record.
"The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive web of connections between George Bush (news - web sites) and the group trying to smear John Kerry's military record," said Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill. "In fact, it only confirms the extent of those connections."
> >This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... > >It ain't ABOUT George Bush! <snip>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Lawyer Advising Vets Quits Bush Campaign
> Bush Campaign Lawyer Resigns Over Anti-Kerry Ads
> By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer
> WASHINGTON - One of President Bush's top lawyers resigned from his > campaign Wednesday, a day after disclosing that he had given legal > advice to a veterans group airing TV ads challenging Democrat John > Kerry's Vietnam War service. The guidance included checking ad > scripts, the group said.
> Benjamin Ginsberg, who also represented Bush in the 2000 Florida > recount that made the Republican president, told Bush in a letter that > he felt his legal work for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had > become a distraction for the re-election campaign.
> The Kerry campaign portrayed Ginsberg's departure as another sign of > ties between the Bush campaign and the veterans group, which has been > airing ads accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam record.
> "The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive > web of connections between George Bush (news - web sites) and the > group trying to smear John Kerry's military record," said > Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill. "In fact, it only > confirms the extent of those connections."
>> >This fucking thing with these Swift boat vets is just -killing- me here.... >> >It ain't ABOUT George Bush! <snip>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Lawyer Advising Vets Quits Bush Campaign
>> Bush Campaign Lawyer Resigns Over Anti-Kerry Ads
>> By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer
>> WASHINGTON - One of President Bush's top lawyers resigned from his >> campaign Wednesday, a day after disclosing that he had given legal >> advice to a veterans group airing TV ads challenging Democrat John >> Kerry's Vietnam War service. The guidance included checking ad >> scripts, the group said.
>> Benjamin Ginsberg, who also represented Bush in the 2000 Florida >> recount that made the Republican president, told Bush in a letter that >> he felt his legal work for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had >> become a distraction for the re-election campaign.
>> The Kerry campaign portrayed Ginsberg's departure as another sign of >> ties between the Bush campaign and the veterans group, which has been >> airing ads accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam record.
>> "The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive >> web of connections between George Bush (news - web sites) and the >> group trying to smear John Kerry's military record," said >> Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill. "In fact, it only >> confirms the extent of those connections."
>At least the Bush camp made anyone in question resign.
*************************************************************************** ******* "I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," Ginsberg wrote. http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z2ED21329 *************************************************************************** ******* Mr Ginsberg on the Factor with Bill denied being "made to resign" as you claim yet again without offers of proof. <sigh>
I quote and reference the non-partisan INDEPENDENT Yahoo News and you reference some "blogsforbush". LMAO!!!!
Couldn't at least find something less than *FAIR & BALANCED* on FOXNEWS to bolster your claim??
"blogsforbush" LMFAO!!!!
>--mmpow
>Consensus is the absence of leadership - Margaret Thatcher
"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear." - Harry S. Truman
