any "chronic" lucid dreamers who deeply questioning reality?

[reality...@gmail.com]

Hello readers of usenet alt.dreams.lucid,

It seems many in this group are looking for techniques to have more
lucid dreams, out of a desire for novelty. That's cool! But I'm
afraid that my own experiences have gone far past entertainment, and
have raised serious questions and issues that I'm not able to put
aside.

(Indeed: When I started six years ago, I spent a lot of time wondering
about how to stay in dreams longer. Now I am usually more concerned
with how to wake up!)

It's tough to explain to the average person how much one's worldview
can change after clocking dozens of hours interrogating the dream
environment directly. Those who do not have lucid dreams--or who have
them infrequently--can easily dismiss them as a subconscious flight of
fancy. Yet I've become convinced that there is something fundamental
involving communication with worlds and beings which are "as real as"
the people one meets on the street.

I'm livid at psychiatry's narrow attitudes about lucid dreaming and
"astral projection", but I also haven't been pleased with religious
movements or conspiracy theorists. When things started getting intense
for me, I looked into previously-taboo ideas like chakras and Jesus and
alien mind control. I was willing to suspend my disbelief in the words
and look for patterns suggesting they were attempts to describe things
that related to me. My eagerness to explore created vague situations
with "teachers" who seemed more interested in controlling knowledge
than in coming clean about their own uncertainties.

Now I am thick-skinned and skeptical, but the very detailed lucid dream
experiences have not stopped. For the past year my strongest hope has
been to contact people who are in my situation. I've tried handing out
my contact information to beings of all sorts while in dreams and
telling them to write me when they wake up, but nothing has arrived.
So I am trying this the "old-fashioned" way.

(Usenet is fairly old fashioned, isn't it? I tend to like the features
of LiveJournal better ... look me up as LiveJournal user
"realityhandbook" ... some dream documentation and weird theories!)

Hope this spoke to at least someone out there. Best wishes and I will
try to keep up with posts here. Maybe I'll even figure out how to
reply to some!

[clave_scri...@spl.at]

i'm not a chronic lucid dreamer but enjoyed your post, especially about
seeking patterns and asking being in dreamstates to reply in the
physical

have you experimented with lying dowmn to sleep in the lucid dream,
maybe since your so good at it over and over again, to enhance
lucidity?

have you asked to meet your inner self?

have you tried to convert the lucid dream into an obe?

post back!

[reality...@gmail.com]

Hello, glad you liked the post.

As I mentioned, I've sort of run the gambit in terms of things that
I've tried. Over time I have found that I no longer need any real
gimmicks to stay in a lucid dream, though falling backwards is my
general device for getting out (and usually going to another dream).
Lying down is similar.

For keeping lucidity, maintaining a kind of detached calm helps. Not
looking too directly at those I am talking to has been important; I
think there is a kind of natural snap to alertness we have when we
notice something staring at us.

I've called out to meet many individuals...specific people in my life,
God(?), or celebrities living or dead. I have been able to call up
physical likenesses of people but the personality has never really
seemed to match them. Overall these particular summonings are rarely
worth recounting, when compared with other journeys. My "OBE"s and
tours of what seem to be real world locations or floating above my body
quickly deviate into alternate geographies and situations.

I have several lists of things to ask when I become lucid, though I
usually am too intrigued to hit my checklist. Sometimes I think to ask
"What is the coolest invention that you've had lately?" Usually the
answer is lame, I actually had someone describing cholesterol-free eggs
(my planet has that already, sigh). Another time I asked "What was the
hot Christmas gift in this dimension last year?" (they pulled a Rubik's
cube out of a drawer)

I've asked friends to think of questions I can ask them about
themselves..and then if I see them in a dream I try to extract the
answers. As I mentioned in my post, I will frequently attempt to
provide contact information by which I can be found on the web...and
I'll ask for similar information from them. Google obviously provides
hits for practically anything you type, so I wind up chasing my tail
usually...but there have been some pretty interesting finds.

[clave_scri...@spl.at]

great

how do you convert a lucid dream to obe - is that the "falling
backwards" bit?

tell me more about your obes, how they happen, how you know it's obe
and not a dream, etc., please?

my 100% lucid dreams and lucid obes are few and far between, but i do
often get names, and responses to questions and suggestions, then i try
to google them too, and sometimes get interesting hits

read any good books on the subject lately? i just finished "the
magical child" by pearce, and while not specifically about lucid
dremaing or obes, they are mentioned, the book is more about the
consciousness of being human at different age stages, and how play is
key to everything really

[alles]

When you write: "...For keeping lucidity, maintaining a kind of

detached calm helps. Not
looking too directly at those I am talking to has been important; I
think there is a kind of natural snap to alertness we have when we

notice something staring at us...."

This is true, but the way you write it it reminds me of something else
i read in some LD-website: that to maintain lucid it is important not
to fix the eyes into staring, but keep them moving, for it alows the
REM to go on, and the staring pulls one out of REM... Also i read
somewhere people use looking left and right (imitating REM) as a
LD-inductiontechnique...

[John Chilton]

Clave,
I was going to ask if that book you read by a "Pierce" was a one Joseph
Chilton Pierce and instead I went and checked it out myself
and found that it was. Years ago I read another book by him called the
Crack in the Cosmic Egg, New constructs of mind and Reality.
That was also very good. He is one of those brave souls that once again
herolds the strength and value of individual worth, meaning quest
and adventure. He would like everyone to take a look inside at that greater
inner reality out of which we arise so as to better lay our blueprints out
as to what we build here individually and en masse. But short of experience
of the intuition and with a sense of "play" and adventure one can not
understand the intuitional side of the self, the mind/soul as it were.
People with strict rigid lines of belief as to incarnate evil for instance,
they don't do too well in out of body states, they can not trust enough, it
is too threatening. We all have a pretty good handle on the brain,well
sort of, lol, but none the less there is little support for the intuition
expecially in science and even in religion, unusually enough. For science
the intuition is far too subjective as it stresses objectivity and for the
church well they would just as rather men not be making any observations
that pose questions that threaten the status quo which shores up their
power and influence. It would not due that men have a more direct line to
their origins as it might just put them out of a job. Heaven forbid.
Ultimately a trance is a trance is a trance, but if you are lucid in a
trance you will generally bring back with you more memory of the events
there it seems. That is my standard. If I have functioning of my critical
factors and I am able to question with the intent of gathering data, I am
lucid and I am I think, also very likely OBE. In my experience the most
interesting and valuable OBE experiences were those in which I was able to
set things up in such a way that I was able to short circuit the descent
pattern in some regard, reach the transition point from here to there and
then accelarate through the window into the other side , my eyes opening
there , finding myself in my room and my body immobile on my back and then
sitting up out of coincidence with my form. After having gone through
sometimes unbelievable vibrational sensations in the process. I think it
ment the most to me, because it seemed the most real with no loss of thread
from here to there. Although my real valuable psychic material, deeply
prophetic stuff, on a personal level or otherwise, never came from such
states, they were always from simple dream states it seemed.

Sincerely,
Chilt

"clave_scri...@spl.at" <clave_...@spl.at> wrote in message
news:1135788740.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[kstre...@aol.com]

Once I had a lucid dream in which I was watching myself dressed up as a
jester "playing" with other jesters. We were easily picking each other
up in the air and spinning each other around. I remember thinking,
"Maybe I should just try flying out of body now."

At that point, I shifted from watching the scene to taking off as if I
were Wendy in Peter Pan with my arms stretched out in front of my head.
I felt myself gaining altitude but just going through clouds. I
remember thinking, "What's the good of going out of body if you can't
see anything?"

At that point, I started losing altitude in a free fall. Wasn't
scared, just reestablished my arms and hit the "up" button and I
started climbing out of the clouds and into the stars.

It was wonderful. I gained and gained speed and was whizzing through
the cosmos. Then I heard someone talking to me as if through
headsets. As I'm a Hemi-Sync user, I felt to see if I was wearing
headphones. When I discovered I wasn't, I got a little freaked. I
"knew" it was one of my guides, and I just freaked.

I decided to go back into my body and just followed the energetic
contrail back down - very fast, much faster than I ascended. Soon,
with a thud, I bombed back into my solar plexus and could feel the
reverberations down to the soles of my feet. It was such an intense
landing that I woke up immediatey and dowsed myself with some
frankincense oil for protection as I felt that my normal physical self
was not quite "sealed off."

It was a very cool experience and one I'd like to repeat but haven't.
I typically am a very strong lucid dreamer, but this is the only one
where I went soaring.

[Anima Rising]

PS - About Joseph Chilton Pierce. He lives on the New Land very close
to the Monroe Institute in Virginia. He is the author of both Magical
Child and Crack in the Cosmic Egg. His most recent book is The Biology
of Trancendence and I highly recommend it!

[clave_scri...@spl.at]

hey chilt

yeah i read that one too - argeed, wonderful stuff, i resonate

it seems the different categories of experience offer us different
abilities and information, i heard somebody speak on the differences
bertween remote viewing and obes, and las tnight i was discussing with
ssomeone the value to the individual of natural, or unadulterated
dreaming, for instance, just letting a dream, be a dream, be a dream

[clave_scri...@spl.at]

great story, i like the headphone hemi-sync point of realization

you induced an obe through LDing

try it again and see, that is will yourself ob when in a LD and see
what happens

anwway, monroe had some experiences like that, going to the edge of all
that is known - challenge your "guide"

mischievously