Mirror Bubble
ThreeWolves
this time matrix. How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law for
this place. Am I acting myself, or am I fitting into what would be an
appropriate mirror for the other person to see. Then where is me in all
that. I would have to give up myself and become a reflection, knowingly so
and with awareness to find any freedom in this system at all.
h elmer | espeance
ThreeWolves wrote:
> I must become mirrors for those that are around me. It seems to be a law in
> this time matrix.
why "must" you and why so about the "law"?
> How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
> individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law for
> this place.
what is your definition of freedom and individuality, without "others"
could you have it?
> Am I acting myself, or am I fitting into what would be an
> appropriate mirror for the other person to see. Then where is me in all
> that. I would have to give up myself and become a reflection, knowingly so
> and with awareness to find any freedom in this system at all.
the reference to being a mirror, or a reflection is fascinating, as
they are indeed different
if you're the mirror you are actually the substance that reflects
if you're the reflection you are something less dense and more ethereal
you may be neither, either, or both, for others
it's not an all or nothing game where you appear the same to everyone -
there is only approximation and consensus on who you are and what your
identity means, first of all have meaning for yourself, when you become
buoyant in yourself then you can be empathic and emphatic about other's
perceptions of you, and make adjustments if you feel it is a choice
that will benefit you
you're at least your own consciousness, her with a physical body
attached
identify freedom, set your intent upon that, be adaptive of your
definition as you change, and see what happens
maybe meditate on it for a few days, or longer, or ask for some dream
answers to your apparent dilemma
the_patron_saint_of_anomalies
is this how the reflexion appears?
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(;;;;;;;;~;;;;;?\?\?;;;;;;;;;)~~
??~?????~~~''''? ???~????
ThreeWolves
"h elmer | espeance" <espe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153953620.1...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> hmm
>
> ThreeWolves wrote:
> > I must become mirrors for those that are around me. It seems to be a law
in
> > this time matrix.
>
> why "must" you and why so about the "law"?
This is because it 'appears' impossible to get away from it. How could it be
anything else but a law. There doesn't seem to be choice, so in here I used
the word "must", even though me having to with my intent really, currently,
had nothing to do with it. So must would be the wrong word.
>
> > How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
> > individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law
for
> > this place.
>
> what is your definition of freedom and individuality, without "others"
> could you have it?
Could I have freedome without something to relate to. As everything is a
thought, I would not know I exist without having all these variouse objects,
things, people, animals, awarenesses to compare myself to. It is based on a
point of reference. Point of observation. This is the law of relativity.
Everything is relative to everything else. You are right. If I was to exist
in a vacume, I could compare myself to nothing but the nothingness, therfore
I would become nothingness. Intersting many try to become this nothingness.
Are they attempting to separate themselves from the illusion created by
everything around them. To again see themselves as a thought form in it's
purest essence. I percieved myself once as liquid light.light that moved
like water. With the thought I would take on any form, for there was no
limitation in that state. Thought manifested itself instantatiously. In a
reality like that how could I relate to anything. I would have to encounter
another consciousness that acted separately from my own. Yet we are one
within the sea of awareness. (mind going blank) LOL.
I would say yes and know. Without others I would be free to be in any of
it's forms, yet without others there would be nothing to compare itself to
to know weather I was free or not. I might say I would then be limited as
there would be nothing or no one to engage with.
h elmer | espeance
>
> This is because it 'appears' impossible to get away from it. How could it be
> anything else but a law. There doesn't seem to be choice, so in here I used
> the word "must", even though me having to with my intent really, currently,
> had nothing to do with it. So must would be the wrong word.
i might tell you everything is choice, your choosing all of it right
now, and all of your past choices have led to the present - other
people are mirrors and reflections of and for you
universal laws which you refer to, in my opinoin, are not immutable,
but individual and mass creations, springing from our relationship to
the universal mystery and existence, more possibly than not with a
basis in myth
can you let go of these "laws", for awhile?
i'd like to have some more fluid expereinces like that, of actually
being the fluid consciousness
anyhow the way i see it, and in line with our conversation (i think),
is memory is partial to corruption/pruning in our biomachines, we're
not in stasis and can't assimilate all knowledge while traversing
through time, similarity and dissimilarity (contrast, difference)
catalyze insight and change through a variety of situations; violent,
despondent sensual, esctatic, etc.
i'll get to your response in the other post later 3w
ThreeWolves
> i might tell you everything is choice, your choosing all of it right
> now, and all of your past choices have led to the present - other
> people are mirrors and reflections of and for you
>
So you are telling me that Sacred Law is choice. In a way it is. We can
choose to break Sacred Law and many have chosen to take this rout. What I
feel needs to be understood by me is what must be followed, and what can be
bent, and what can be broken without karmic backlash. Then that agian is
choice. When holding the one point alot of the laws of gravity for instance
seem to be bent. The laws of muscles and streangth are broken. This is an
example I can come up with.
> universal laws which you refer to, in my opinoin, are not immutable,
> but individual and mass creations, springing from our relationship to
> the universal mystery and existence, more possibly than not with a
> basis in myth
>
They are creations for the physical reality in which we live. The Nagual
would have different laws, such as My word is Law. I could ignore it, and
then might not have a desired outcome in my little rebellion. Then again
their is allways common sense.
Every anarchist derams of living in a reality without laws. HeHe
Interesting point. To perceive reality from the higher dimensions or from
source, yet exist here. It feels like a paradox for their are different
rules and different truths in each place.
ThreeWolves
Azure
ThreeWolves wrote:
Yep, the reason for the equation.
ThreeWolves
ThreeWolves
slider
"ThreeWolves" wrote...
### - if the millipede tried to work out which leg it's going to move next
in which order etc... then chances are it'd just slowly seize up and fall
over :)
Azure
slider wrote:
>
> "ThreeWolves" wrote...
> >I must become mirrors for those that are around me. It seems to be a law in
> > this time matrix.
Mirror/Bubble is right, like Calighostro(?) the mirror or water, it
"Reflects", the Dark Temple vs the Light, as in the Taj.
Lady of the Lake
Lug
Paris
Water!
How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
> > individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law for
> > this place.
No, you do not reflect their wisdom, you mix it with your dispersion,
you control the lights output.
Each Spectrum is different and creates unique energy.
You as mirror are the projecting dispersion of the spectral light which
enters "YOU".
h elmer | espeance
ThreeWolves wrote:
> >
> > i might tell you everything is choice, your choosing all of it right
> > now, and all of your past choices have led to the present - other
> > people are mirrors and reflections of and for you
> >
> So you are telling me that Sacred Law is choice. In a way it is. We can
> choose to break Sacred Law and many have chosen to take this rout. What I
> feel needs to be understood by me is what must be followed, and what can be
> bent, and what can be broken without karmic backlash. Then that agian is
> choice. When holding the one point alot of the laws of gravity for instance
> seem to be bent. The laws of muscles and streangth are broken. This is an
> example I can come up with.
>
i don't even know what "sacred law" is!
if you believe in karma, and understand that time is simultaneous, then
what you do now effects the past as well as the present and future
gravity is not understood scientifically, only that it exists
everything is convulsing, converging and diverging, blinking and
pulsing, diametric and posimetric - so when we try to describe this
(even though we're unaware of that fact), we simply are drawing a rough
map of a glimpse or glimmer of the potential we experience
> > universal laws which you refer to, in my opinoin, are not immutable,
> > but individual and mass creations, springing from our relationship to
> > the universal mystery and existence, more possibly than not with a
> > basis in myth
> >
> They are creations for the physical reality in which we live. The Nagual
> would have different laws, such as My word is Law. I could ignore it, and
> then might not have a desired outcome in my little rebellion. Then again
> their is allways common sense.
>
interesting, i think if everyone beleived differently, physical laws
would actually be different, or perceived differently, our beliefs
filter our perceptions
yes there are root assumptions, gravity, time, etc., so what is it
about these that is the bother again?
> Every anarchist derams of living in a reality without laws. HeHe
>
> > can you let go of these "laws", for awhile?
so can you?
h elmer | espeance
true!
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> inserts below 3w
>
> ThreeWolves wrote:
> > >
> > > i might tell you everything is choice, your choosing all of it right
> > > now, and all of your past choices have led to the present - other
> > > people are mirrors and reflections of and for you
> > >
> > So you are telling me that Sacred Law is choice. In a way it is. We can
> > choose to break Sacred Law and many have chosen to take this rout. What I
> > feel needs to be understood by me is what must be followed, and what can be
> > bent, and what can be broken without karmic backlash. Then that agian is
> > choice. When holding the one point alot of the laws of gravity for instance
> > seem to be bent. The laws of muscles and streangth are broken. This is an
> > example I can come up with.
> >
> i don't even know what "sacred law" is!
>
> if you believe in karma, and understand that time is simultaneous, then
> what you do now effects the past as well as the present and future
So then some of the Books which I find have changed, have changed for some cause
other than my irrationality?
Then some one is "Tampering" with Destiny.
That would be the Ring.
The Curse can only be broken when it is "Returned to the Deep Waters" I am the
Mother Male of the "Ocean".
h elmer | espeance
why would irrationality be the only thing to do with it?
nothing is predetermined, destiny is a fabrication, and doesn't exist
unless you buy into it
there is no curse on anything to me
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> azure finally speaks in words i understand, funny note too slider, how
> true!
### - don't pay to be 'too' rational/scientific about everything heh :)
+ just an observation that most of the things we do are actually achieved in
like unthinking manner... walking for example, or driving a car... in fact
even thinking & talking is like playing a musical instrument in that it only
flows/works/plays correctly when rationality per-se (thinking about it) is
somewhat suspended/pushed into the background (e.g. learning to drive
actually means learning to perform all the required combined/coordinated
movements involved in doing so 'unconsciously' with reason just doing the
steering :)
(pray you never wake up while driving on the freeway iow hehe :)
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
If you have "The Ring" there is!
Time to open the Doors I need it.
h elmer | espeance
what does it say about our consciousness then, or ideas about our
consciousness?
slider
h elmer | espeance...
> ha - seriously, that's an interesting observation
>
> what does it say about our consciousness then, or ideas about our
> consciousness?
### - smile, that it's all just a load of old nonsense perhaps? :)
people 'dreaming' of being awake but who are in fact not?
just the mental musings of the dreaming-sleepy justifying their current
state of dulled awareness having a non-lucid dream of there actually being a
completely rational world in which 'they' are in-control?
and ultimately, a massive collective denial of the way things 'actually'
are?
who knows! but from that pov it certainly ain't the way we 'think' it is ;)
ThreeWolves
Slider Wrote:
> who knows! but from that pov it certainly ain't the way we 'think' it is
;)
>
>
How many people do you know that have even come close to the way it actually
is, and have you even done this yourself, or are you trapped within the same
thing as everyone else, we are all just guessing/intending:) Just some might
have more of an educated guess than others. Closest I have got to an
explanation is the unified field, yet even with that I am faking it until
one day I might make it. Hehe --- think happy thoughts!!!!!
ThreeWolves.
slider
ThreeWolves wrote...
> >
>
> Slider Wrote:
>> who knows! but from that pov it certainly ain't the way we 'think' it is
> ;)
>>
>>
>
>
> How many people do you know that have even come close to the way it
> actually
> is,
### - several... including one that went all the way and didn't return
and have you even done this yourself, or are you trapped within the same
> thing as everyone else, we are all just guessing/intending:)
### - i have, so it's not all just guessing/intending
Just some might
> have more of an educated guess than others. Closest I have got to an
> explanation is the unified field,
### - there are no rational 'explanations' as such, nor will there be in the
future, quantum theory being really no more than a rational acknowledgement
of the existence of phenomena extending beyond the rational/logical per
se...
yet even with that I am faking it until
> one day I might make it. Hehe --- think happy thoughts!!!!!
### - the only thing that 'fakes' things is the rational-mind by continually
trying to explain the inexplicable merely as a justification of itself and
the way it wants/needs to function in order to survive as a functioning +
autonomous unit...
e.g. from the rational pov everything perforce simply 'must' be rational
and/or conform to the criterion of reason per se else the subject matter
under examination will automatically be found to be false/rationally unsound
and dismissed...
however, a simple process of observation quickly reveals that the 'nature'
of knowledge isn't confined merely to the realm of reason alone in the sense
that the 'flow' of knowledge & understanding doesn't actually 'cease' when
reason per se is suspended but instead actually expands inordinately beyond
what is then seen (with hindsight) as the deliberately rationally-limiting
factor of reason per se which is obviously employed to channel everything
conforming to its own criterion while at the same time totally ignoring
anything that doesn't (acts/is-employed as a perceptual filter iow)
ThreeWolves
Just some might
> > have more of an educated guess than others. Closest I have got to an
> > explanation is the unified field,
>
Slider Wrote:
> ### - there are no rational 'explanations' as such, nor will there be in
the
> future, quantum theory being really no more than a rational
acknowledgement
> of the existence of phenomena extending beyond the rational/logical per
> se...
>
>
>
I hear a lot about formlessness. At first I would try to associate it with
chaos, yet even that has a form and a pattern to it in the big picure. For
me it is a feeling, yet cannot be put into thought that makes sense. Even in
the dissorientation of feeling like my body is no longar physical with waves
of something passing threw me, can this even be formlessness as I can sort
of put it into words or try to rationalize it. Part of me goes, how could
one step into formlessness yet still function here and where would be the
purpose. Or is it a state of experience one experiences for a moment, then
it is gone, and we return to the human condition with a new perspective. Is
it the state of expansion where there is no separation, no security, only
expansion. It felt as if the universe existed within me. Yet even this I try
to rationalize. Try to understand it. I put myself into a protective buble
so that I can feel that I at least have some kind of boundry to myself as
this is known. To let go of the ratoinal mind, does this mean one must loose
touch with this world and everyone in it, only to find another. Yet here we
get locked up. HeHe. There must be some functionality, yet the mind must be
able to let go. Is it the edge, a highwire, a freefall, or floating in a
viod vacume, or none of the above and outside explination. I feel like I am
just playing with myself trying to find a rational explination for something
that is not rational. Yet my intent is giving away the addiction of the
illusion I have been programed with, I suppose to change my point of
reference.
>
>
> yet even with that I am faking it until
> > one day I might make it. Hehe --- think happy thoughts!!!!!
>
> ### - the only thing that 'fakes' things is the rational-mind by
continually
> trying to explain the inexplicable merely as a justification of itself and
> the way it wants/needs to function in order to survive as a functioning +
> autonomous unit...
>
> e.g. from the rational pov everything perforce simply 'must' be rational
> and/or conform to the criterion of reason per se else the subject matter
> under examination will automatically be found to be false/rationally
unsound
> and dismissed...
>
> however, a simple process of observation quickly reveals that the 'nature'
> of knowledge isn't confined merely to the realm of reason alone in the
sense
> that the 'flow' of knowledge & understanding doesn't actually 'cease' when
> reason per se is suspended but instead actually expands inordinately
beyond
> what is then seen (with hindsight) as the deliberately rationally-limiting
> factor of reason per se which is obviously employed to channel everything
> conforming to its own criterion while at the same time totally ignoring
> anything that doesn't (acts/is-employed as a perceptual filter iow)
>
>
>
>
--- To function without a belief system, only to use what is most
appropriate for the moment. I think to myself is it possible to be this
fluid. I am constantly going to newer deapths of where I am attached. Of
where I am not willing to let go of what I think is. Then create the fight,
the war againsed what is to hold onto what is known. Sometimes it is like I
am fighting for my very life, for my very sanity. And all it is, is fear.
That simple, yet I purposfully try to slit my own throat with it. HeHe. Even
now, I am creating all this drama around "trying" to understand, yet isn't
my understanding I have to let go of whith clarity being an enemy here. All
I have to do is not take it so personally, yet in the deapth of my core that
feels like betraying the very fabric of who I think I am. LOL It feels like
I am killing myself and nurturing myself at the same time. Te have self care
in the death, held safe in the womb of whakan. Even in the knowing of the
ruthlessness of nature, yet at the same time, love beyond measure.
ThreeWolves
>
>
slider
ThreeWolves wrote...
> Just some might
>> > have more of an educated guess than others. Closest I have got to an
>> > explanation is the unified field,
>>
>
>
> Slider Wrote:
>
>> ### - there are no rational 'explanations' as such, nor will there be in
> the
>> future, quantum theory being really no more than a rational
> acknowledgement
>> of the existence of phenomena extending beyond the rational/logical per
>> se...
>>
>>
>>
>
> I hear a lot about formlessness. At first I would try to associate it with
> chaos, yet even that has a form and a pattern to it in the big picure.
> For
> me it is a feeling,
### - exactly... it's a feeling, an 'experience' of something that exists in
the vacuum of reason (where no reason per se exists) and as such represents
the 'indescribable'
the terms 'void' and/or 'no-thing' being just about as close to a
description of this altered state that reason/language can arrive at...
(it's reasons best description of a perceptual state wherein reason itself
is unavailable)
yet cannot be put into thought that makes sense. Even in
> the dissorientation of feeling like my body is no longar physical with
> waves
> of something passing threw me, can this even be formlessness as I can sort
> of put it into words or try to rationalize it. Part of me goes, how could
> one step into formlessness yet still function here and where would be the
> purpose. Or is it a state of experience one experiences for a moment, then
> it is gone, and we return to the human condition with a new perspective.
> Is
> it the state of expansion where there is no separation, no security, only
> expansion. It felt as if the universe existed within me. Yet even this I
> try
> to rationalize. Try to understand it. I put myself into a protective buble
> so that I can feel that I at least have some kind of boundry to myself as
> this is known.
### - it's a kind of 2-way gate (can be made to operate that way) in that
suspending reason 'brings' the experience and re-invoking reason 'dispels'
it, thus (after stepping out) one finds oneself walking along a tightrope
that can be easily swayed one way or another merely depending on how one
shifts one's weight/balance etc...
To let go of the ratoinal mind, does this mean one must loose
> touch with this world and everyone in it, only to find another.
### - yup + yeeharr! :)
Yet here we
> get locked up. HeHe. There must be some functionality, yet the mind must
> be
> able to let go. Is it the edge, a highwire, a freefall, or floating in a
> viod vacume, or none of the above and outside explination.
### - perfect... so now just zero in on (follow/stick with) that feeling,
realising that it takes only a small act of will to deliberately keep reason
at-bay just enough to allow the experience to continue without
interfering/meddling with it... until 'afterwards'
i.e. rule of thumb is don't analyse anything until 'after' the experience
itself has ended, something that to me most closely resembles the situation
of lucid dreaming, in that being/allowing oneself to be too rational under a
dreaming situation automatically results in being booted from the lucid
dreaming state...
I feel like I am
> just playing with myself trying to find a rational explination for
> something
> that is not rational. Yet my intent is giving away the addiction of the
> illusion I have been programed with, I suppose to change my point of
> reference.
### - if you keep going down that road you'll eventually bump into all the
answers hehe, imho it just takes a long time to discipline the rational mind
into shutting up on demand :)
### - one balances the (rational) fear with the mystery (the wonder) of it
all... i.e. one simply looks 'out' on the outside-world instead of
continually looking inward at the self that's having the experience ("forget
the self and you will fear nothing" hehe:)
> That simple, yet I purposfully try to slit my own throat with it. HeHe.
> Even
> now, I am creating all this drama around "trying" to understand, yet isn't
> my understanding I have to let go of whith clarity being an enemy here.
### - reason may cease but strangely understanding carries on albeit in an
entirely different fashion/manner... (i.e. one begins to just 'know' things
instead of having to figure everything out ;)
All
> I have to do is not take it so personally, yet in the deapth of my core
> that
> feels like betraying the very fabric of who I think I am. LOL It feels
> like
> I am killing myself and nurturing myself at the same time. Te have self
> care
> in the death, held safe in the womb of whakan. Even in the knowing of the
> ruthlessness of nature, yet at the same time, love beyond measure.
### - sounds like you're doing just fine 3-wolves... and just experiencing
(enjoying) the initial puzzlement, the mystery... of being... of being
alive... of being alive & going to die... and of there being no answers to
the situation (no rational ones anyway hehe :)
it's the awareness of something that just shouldn't be but is... it's the
IS-ness and the BEING-ness of the Now, it is the awareness of ALIVE-ness in
the Now (the only thing that actually exists!)
iow, the poet within is being born/coming to life... plus you have obviously
been giving him the correct food so the right thing to do is to just let it
carry on growing/eating :)
-----------------------
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
connection to the starry dynamo in the machin-
ery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
contemplating jazz, "
--(extract from Ginsberg's : 'Howl' :)
h elmer | espeance
barely aware of what's going on around us, most of the time
it gets to the whole idea of awareness for me, that the best we can do
is be aware that the total of existence is mostly passing by, it's an
intrigue and mystery, and remains mostly unexplained
unified field is an idea whose time has not come
maybe with CERN coming online, and hopefully lending to the definition
of what dark energy and dark matter are, and elsewhere gravity, all in
a more scientific manner, will help with that
from the center of the universe
h elmer | espeance
h elmer | espeance
it in mind though then it is a kind of form, at least as a boundry
surrounding emptiness
if we were able to experience full formlessness, we would be nothing,
and be everyting at once, so we would reach into the infinite of all
conceptions, we aware and unaware of it at the same time
why must there be functionality, maybe there's just orientation, or
assimialtion, or synthesis, or . . . i mean to me there are many
filters to conceive things through
> I hear a lot about formlessness. At first I would try to associate it with
> chaos, yet even that has a form and a pattern to it in the big picure. For
> me it is a feeling, yet cannot be put into thought that makes sense. Even in
> the dissorientation of feeling like my body is no longar physical with waves
> of something passing threw me, can this even be formlessness as I can sort
> of put it into words or try to rationalize it. Part of me goes, how could
> one step into formlessness yet still function here and where would be the
> purpose. Or is it a state of experience one experiences for a moment, then
> it is gone, and we return to the human condition with a new perspective. Is
> it the state of expansion where there is no separation, no security, only
> expansion. It felt as if the universe existed within me. Yet even this I try
> to rationalize. Try to understand it. I put myself into a protective buble
> so that I can feel that I at least have some kind of boundry to myself as
> this is known. To let go of the ratoinal mind, does this mean one must loose
> touch with this world and everyone in it, only to find another. Yet here we
> get locked up. HeHe. There must be some functionality, yet the mind must be
> able to let go. Is it the edge, a highwire, a freefall, or floating in a
> viod vacume, or none of the above and outside explination. I feel like I am
> just playing with myself trying to find a rational explination for something
i really like what you say below, so true for all of us, huh?
> that is not rational. Yet my intent is giving away the addiction of the
> illusion I have been programed with, I suppose to change my point of
> reference.
>
> --- To function without a belief system, only to use what is most
> appropriate for the moment. I think to myself is it possible to be this
> fluid. I am constantly going to newer deapths of where I am attached. Of
> where I am not willing to let go of what I think is. Then create the fight,
> the war againsed what is to hold onto what is known. Sometimes it is like I
> am fighting for my very life, for my very sanity. And all it is, is fear.
> That simple, yet I purposfully try to slit my own throat with it. HeHe. Even
> now, I am creating all this drama around "trying" to understand, yet isn't
> my understanding I have to let go of whith clarity being an enemy here. All
> I have to do is not take it so personally, yet in the deapth of my core that
> feels like betraying the very fabric of who I think I am. LOL It feels like
> I am killing myself and nurturing myself at the same time. Te have self care
> in the death, held safe in the womb of whakan. Even in the knowing of the
> ruthlessness of nature, yet at the same time, love beyond measure.
>
there's that word function "again", insert the words i mentioned above,
any difference?
To orient without a belief system . . .
To assimilate without a belief system . . .
To synthesize without a belief system . . .
i don't know, i've been shuffing off belief systems too, and we end up
with what seth calls root assumptions, like the basis for our
expereince in physical reality, and other constants, such as color, or
vibration
the beleif systems definitely led us to where we are, even in our
shuffing of them, so they serve a great expereintial purpose, and point
of reference
i'm not sure if we can completely get out of belief systems, but we can
pick for ourselves what ones we think are best for us
the part about fear is humongous, and if you're not suceptible to
mental instability, then i suggest moving into the place of fear,
embracing it, really to become fearless, not to adopt a new belief
system, but to know oneself and keep coming from a place of growth,
which you obviously are
cheers
> ThreeWolves
>
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> i'm not sure if we can completely get out of belief systems, but we can
> pick for ourselves what ones we think are best for us
### - we can certainly pick & choose between them...
but hell = becoming stuck in any one of them :)
---------------------
"A clever man learns something new every day, whereas a wise man tries every
day to forget something he's previously learned." --zen saying :)
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> to replhy to slider and 3w - i get that what's happening is that we're
> barely aware of what's going on around us, most of the time
### - or conversely... we're aware only of what we think is important + have
prioritised accordingly
>
> it gets to the whole idea of awareness for me, that the best we can do
> is be aware that the total of existence is mostly passing by, it's an
> intrigue and mystery, and remains mostly unexplained
### - from 'this' pov the process of awakening begins with becoming aware of
being aware... i.e. one begins to question/probe awareness per se instead of
always being totally immersed/thoroughly involved in it
>
> unified field is an idea whose time has not come
### - yeah but will they really understand it, or just like everything else,
turn/streamline it all into something that suits 'them' and the way they
want/prefer to see everything/themselves
>
> maybe with CERN coming online, and hopefully lending to the definition
> of what dark energy and dark matter are, and elsewhere gravity, all in
> a more scientific manner, will help with that
### - i doubt it... mainly because the rigid path of science doesn't
actually include becoming aware of being aware/of stepping back from their
whole adopted approach to life & being alive
so yes we're missing most of what's passing us by, but only because of an
insistence on being thoroughly involved in certain pre-selected/known
'aspects' of awareness whilst ignoring everything else/the bigger picture
-----------------
"With our thoughts we make the world." --buddha :)
h elmer | espeance
least dump what we consider useless baggae from the system(s) we have
an affinity with or are drawn too, and keep the awareness that they are
belief systems, so as not to be coming from a place of judgement (but
damn, ii just feel like some belief systems, or ways of being-thinking
are better than others too)
as far as your quote, who needs to try?
h elmer | espeance
except what we define
smiles
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> yes, for sure, i still am in line w/ 3w though, to transcend, or at
> least dump what we consider useless baggae from the system(s) we have
> an affinity with or are drawn too, and keep the awareness that they are
> belief systems, so as not to be coming from a place of judgement (but
> damn, ii just feel like some belief systems, or ways of being-thinking
> are better than others too)
>
> as far as your quote, who needs to try?
### - i guess i was maybe trying to point something out to you albeit in a
very indirect manner? (jus' tryin' to be a bit subtle m8, know wot i mean?
smile:)
i.e. that yes we can certainly pick & choose between aaaaall those whacky
belief systems, some certainly being much better than others depending on
what result you're looking for etc... the 'question' (i.e. my previous
indirect question, backed up/reinforced with the strange quote etc)
being/is...
what if 'clarity' (the perception of reality as it actually is) is actually
more the result of simply 'refusing' to perceive via 'any' sets of
whatever-coloured glasses/beliefs and/or belief-systems... and/or if it
comes to that: without 'any' system or systems of language whatsoever! what
then?
(hence the quote, which i'm sure you'll understand now only really makes
sense in that particular context, a context i was attempting to put you in
touch with/inviting you to consider... check it out :)
>
> slider wrote:
>> h elmer | espeance wrote...
>>
>> > i'm not sure if we can completely get out of belief systems, but we can
>> > pick for ourselves what ones we think are best for us
>>
>> ### - we can certainly pick & choose between them...
>>
>> but hell = becoming stuck in any one of them :)
>>
>> ---------------------
>>
>> "A clever man learns something new every day, whereas a wise man tries
>> everyday to forget something he's previously learned." --zen saying :)
>
h elmer | espeance
but i still say one needn't try to forget, we can't help it . . .
enlightenedly
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> yes being "nothing", is that what you;re getting at?
> but i still say one needn't try to forget, we can't help it . . .
### - smile, well i wouldn't say that Reality is 'nothing' exactly, just
that it's an attainable state of awareness that exists 'beyond' thought &
language (a reality that for example obviously existed long before we humans
invented language in an attempt to 'define' everything for our rather
simplistic understanding & convenience...)
the quote i included being indicative of some sort of 'path' to attaining
it, thus implying that it doesn't just happen by itself but in fact requires
a deliberate effort to be made in that direction lest one's default-mode
(that of habitually applying various systems of ideas to everything) remains
fully intact and functioning and which perforce unwittingly acts as a
deliberately crafted block/filter to experiencing an 'unclouded' perception
of the whole : clarity
iow (and to be a little more direct) i hardly think that indulging in the
operating/applying of various systems of language (e.g. perhaps even because
one has realised that one system IS actually better than another for
attaining certain things) no-matter how clever or contrived and/or how
powerful they might be (e.g. for the working of so-called magic perhaps?)
will ever lead to freedom per se, but leads instead merely to a place where
one is still slave to language, that even if this function has been expanded
to 1000 languages it still remains within the domain of language per se...
like why even 'allow' an attachment (to systems of language) when inner
silence is key to perceiving a Reality that exists beyond all that?? :)
(plus sorry to be so direct, but i'm putting you on the spot so to speak ;)
h elmer | espeance
"perforce"!? just kidding!
well, it seems to me that we're speaking of "being nothing" and
"perceiving reality"
and, by being nothing i mean what you say, having an awareness beyond
thought and language, pure being
if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
my being, what does that all mean?
in our occidental minds, we may need to think about it to get there,
but i wonder if in some other cultures, people are not more akin to
living in "that" awareness all the time, for example, they don't have
an analytical scientific culture
yet, some people i believe are more natural at this, the
intuitive/psychic function, which is our birthright, ties into this
awareness, is a coping-survival mechanism, and sees in wholes rather
than parts, first
you make a good point, about being hardwired for language, that all
philosophy is basically language, and therefore to rely on a philosophy
(belief system), is a kind of crutch, which language is at the root of,
and interferes with our perception
let's explore this conundrum, if our beliefs filter our perception,
then without any beliefs we would perceive everything (as it it really
is), or perceive absolutely nothing, it is kind of one in the same
we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
ineffable answer
does reality exist outside of my perception?
is reality what one makes it?
is it a combination of both?
as far as attachment or not, all variety of expression is valid (we
only judge it not to be so), so while some seek to be unattached,
others are finding value fullfillment in their experience by being
attached - i don't like to call it thus, but using your conceptions,
then aren't we just switching out one kind of "enslavement" for
another?
what is freedom?
howie
chris
> "perforce"!? just kidding!
> well, it seems to me that we're speaking of "being nothing" and
> "perceiving reality"
> and, by being nothing i mean what you say, having an awareness beyond
> thought and language, pure being
> if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
> everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
> oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
> my being, what does that all mean?
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> hmm . . . speaking of language, would you quit inserting that word
> "perforce"!? just kidding!
### - perforce i will lol :)
>
> well, it seems to me that we're speaking of "being nothing" and
> "perceiving reality"
>
> and, by being nothing i mean what you say, having an awareness beyond
> thought and language, pure being
### - it's virtually impossible to talk about it in any meaningful terms,
but perhaps it's something more basic (older) than language (language being
like a kind of later plugin?:) and/or related more to raw animal awareness
but with an added pinch of intelligence + the added ability to be aware of
being aware? (smile:)
>
> if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
> everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
> oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
> my being, what does that all mean?
### - doesn't 'mean' anything (and/or is beyond meaning per se:) so the
right thing to do is to stop trying to make it make some kind of sense
related to whatever philosophy/trying to make it fit into some kind of
scheme known or unknown etc (behaviour almost guaranteed to keep it all in a
background state) and just leap in and go for a swim :)
an oceanic feeling you say? well then yes go for a swim in it instead of
trying to understand it from 2 meters away (i.e. it's not absolutely
necessary to understand 'how' one swims in order to enjoy doing it :)
>
> in our occidental minds, we may need to think about it to get there,
> but i wonder if in some other cultures, people are not more akin to
> living in "that" awareness all the time, for example, they don't have
> an analytical scientific culture
### - exactly :)
>
> yet, some people i believe are more natural at this, the
> intuitive/psychic function, which is our birthright, ties into this
> awareness, is a coping-survival mechanism, and sees in wholes rather
> than parts, first
### - imho it's in us all without exception and just more pronounced in some
more than in others is all (which seems to be nature's way) - the fact that
we live in a society basically dedicated to eradicating all such former
knowledge in-favour of the modern rational approach to all and sundry is an
added factor whereby awareness is deliberately streamed/channelled in order
to produce a particular 'type' of perception (perception can be groomed)
>
> you make a good point, about being hardwired for language, that all
> philosophy is basically language, and therefore to rely on a philosophy
> (belief system), is a kind of crutch, which language is at the root of,
> and interferes with our perception
### - if nothing else it proves that perception can indeed be moulded to
fit, a realisation which at least leaves one with a choice (i.e. to mould or
not to mould, that is the question hehe :)
>
> let's explore this conundrum, if our beliefs filter our perception,
> then without any beliefs we would perceive everything (as it it really
> is), or perceive absolutely nothing, it is kind of one in the same
### - nice probe, plus if you mean swimming without attempting to analyse
how you're doing it and so just enjoying the experience + learning from it
directly + thereby... then yes i'd totally agree with your allusion (there's
2 totally different bodies of available knowledge :)
>
> we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
> ineffable answer
### - the kind of reality we're talking about can never be a 'what is':)
>
> does reality exist outside of my perception?
### - Being is the reality... getting stuck in/being born into some
arbitrary hell is another kind of reality, one that mankind in general
has yet to master (probably due to his attachment to the variety of them)
>
> is reality what one makes it?
### - one of the problems with this little extra bit of awareness us humans
have is that it certainly can be what we make it, at least until a person
learns to island-hop, whereon it all eventually becomes much of a muchness
(i.e. if you've seen one cult then you've seen them all kinda thing)
>
> is it a combination of both?
### - is the experience of swimming a combination of both?? (laughing:)
>
> as far as attachment or not, all variety of expression is valid (we
> only judge it not to be so), so while some seek to be unattached,
> others are finding value fullfillment in their experience by being
> attached - i don't like to call it thus, but using your conceptions,
> then aren't we just switching out one kind of "enslavement" for
> another?
### - that was certainly my point about beliefs systems per se intelligently
applied or otherwise (ultimately just the swapping of one prison cell for
another)
>
> what is freedom?
### - as one guy put it : the freedom to perceive all that's humanly
possible to perceive? :)
but in our present context i guess that freedom = the freeing of perception
from the huge spectrum of prison cells (of different beliefs and/or systems)
of language-based ideas we're currently locked into...
ThreeWolves
"slider" <sli...@anashram.com> wrote in message
news:450144ad$0$2686$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
So what happens when we step into the guift of toungs, where we step out of
language and step into pure understanding and communication?
Azure
ThreeWolves wrote:
The Idea of the Bubble is the Universal flow of the waters.
The Ancients taught how it connected all life.
That it was the water which reflected the energies of Nature.
White Taj and Dark Taj.
The Yin Yang of life.
The Energies were said to be visible when in the northern regions when the
winter comes.
They said the Xtalisation of the water caused the release of energy which caused
the lights which we could see.
They went on the assert that the energy which caused the lights was a force
which the body could absorb and use.
It seems like Quartz, water emits energy when it transforms from liquid to
solid.
During the process it crystallizes and picks up a charge which is capable of
being used.
The Bubble I spoke of is the Water Force.
The River the waters which return onto itself the cycle of energy in real time.
To look upon the water and see between its planes the glisten takes shape which
only the inner self sees, but many are those who can in fact see it.
Water, Mirror.
Look on the reflection of the Cyclops looking back from the mirror.
Between you and it is a hall of nothingness, the substance of all things.
slider
ThreeWolves wrote...
>> will ever lead to freedom per se, but leads instead merely to a place
> where
>> one is still slave to language, that even if this function has been
> expanded
>> to 1000 languages it still remains within the domain of language per
>> se...
>>
>
>
> So what happens when we step into the guift of toungs, where we step out
> of
> language and step into pure understanding and communication?
### - had to think about this one hehe, but imho stepping away from language
activates the human ability to probe/explore countless alternate places in
awareness of which language, and all that can be done with language, is only
one possible option/place...
realising that, the challenge then becoming to track through/across that
huge perceptual potential without just becoming lost (and/or stuck) all-over
again in something equally undesirable or worse...
iow, one will have to decide for themselves if in stepping away from
language (entering into an altered state) & then standing in such a place as
'the gift of tongues' is the best possible place out of all those countless
1000's to be...
personally i think it's best to just step away from language (including all
such language-based religious connotations) altogether, which logically
speaking would also include the so-called 'gift of tongues' :)
i.e due to the bewildering array of possible perceptual configurations that
suddenly becomes available, one has to make quite a conscious effort not to
allow oneself to get too wacky out there lest one risks becoming lost/stuck
all-over again albeit in something different... and because ultimately;
swapping one prison cell for another isn't the same as being freed from
prison altogether...
Azure
slider wrote:
I came to find a healer,
But was instead to find I am the Dagon, Dock en Fisherman/Fishman, the House of
the Healer Dock Ta, and was told Physician Heal thyself.
The wound I sought to heal, is healed, but left great scar, Daniel 8:
But now I face a form of repeat battle.
Nemesis has brought me full circle for ELPH.
Joel 2:, I am a descendant of Moab, Eocaidh, of the "Red Brows", the House of
the Dalriadians, was one of her named Husbands.
Her children are the "Cairbre".
The Orkhan of the Dal/Mogh Lamha.
Orcknie's.
The Tribes of the Miden, the Hawks or Eagles, (Burial Site).
ThreeWolves
I think my only question here is when we communicate in images and in
feelings or in knowing, is this still within the guift of toungs in that it
is a form of communication, thus could it be difined as a languags even
though there really is no written or spoken form of it. Yet a communication
or understanding does take place between two consciousnesses. Me and the
image or knowledge being presented.
ThreeWolves
>
>
slider
3 Wolves wrote...
>> > So what happens when we step into the guift of toungs, where we step
>> > out
>> > of
>> > language and step into pure understanding and communication?
>>
>> ### - had to think about this one hehe, but imho stepping away from
> language
>> activates the human ability to probe/explore countless alternate places
>> in
>> awareness of which language, and all that can be done with language, is
> only one possible option/place...
> I think my only question here is when we communicate in images and in
> feelings or in knowing, is this still within the guift of toungs in that
> it
> is a form of communication, thus could it be difined as a languags even
> though there really is no written or spoken form of it. Yet a
> communication
> or understanding does take place between two consciousnesses. Me and the
> image or knowledge being presented.
### - then i'd just say to forget 'the gift of tongues' part of it
altogether as being anything to do with anything and/or which is only
confusing to the issue at hand...
which properly speaking would be 'direct' communication (of images/feeling &
vibes etc) which has nothing whatsoever to do with 'language' and more to do
with the area (of perception) that immediately opens up when language per se
is temporarily blocked/suspended...
or (hehe:) do you really think people didn't communicate before language was
invented? (i.e. of course they did, just like all animals do (sort of
telepathically) only humans were much smarter (predators) than the average
animal, and have thus for example a bigger available range of perception of
which the invention + use of language is only 'one' possible option out of
many :)
Azure
What are Hieroglyphs and Petroglyphs?
> >
h elmer | espeance
in article 1153980993.5...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
the_patron_saint_of_anomalies at bis...@k.st wrote on 7/27/06 1:16 am:
>
> ThreeWolves wrote:
>> I must become mirrors for those that are around me. It seems to be a law in
>> this time matrix. How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
>> individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law for
>> this place. Am I acting myself, or am I fitting into what would be an
>> appropriate mirror for the other person to see. Then where is me in all
>> that. I would have to give up myself and become a reflection, knowingly so
>> and with awareness to find any freedom in this system at all.
>
> is this how the reflexion appears?
>
>
> ?.-?~~~~??~`?.?
> ?~?,.? ?,..? ~?
> |?o~? ~ o~ __?~.,,??___
> (? (_, )?/~?;;;;;;;;;;;;;;~?-.,?
> ?~\,?.?| ?--- ? ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;?
> (_?.??~;;;;;;;?;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-,?
> ~?;;;;;;; `? ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;???.??-??~~~~~?-.?
> ~?.?~~~ ?;;;;;;;;~??~ ?? ~??
> ~? ~?';;;?,?~ ~? ~?
> ~, ~?;;;;;| | |
> ~? \??~? | ?~?
> ~? ~? ?-~???,,..---??????~~~~~~~??????
> ?~ ,? ?~?????~~?????:::::::::::::::??~??~
> ~? ?` ~? ? ?;? ? ?-?? ? ?? ? ?~
> ?? ~? `?~~? ?? ?~~? ~?
> ~?? ?~?--? ~?.? ?~?-?-??? ~?
> '? ? \? ~?
> ?.~__,..-..?-?~__,..-.,,_\?
> (;;;;;;;;~;;;;;?\?\?;;;;;;;;;)~~
> ??~?????~~~''''? ???~????
>
h elmer | espeance
and your attention and focus are also different
>
>
> h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
>> inserts below 3w
>>
>> ThreeWolves wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i might tell you everything is choice, your choosing all of it right
>>>> now, and all of your past choices have led to the present - other
>>>> people are mirrors and reflections of and for you
>>>>
>>> So you are telling me that Sacred Law is choice. In a way it is. We can
>>> choose to break Sacred Law and many have chosen to take this rout. What I
>>> feel needs to be understood by me is what must be followed, and what can be
>>> bent, and what can be broken without karmic backlash. Then that agian is
>>> choice. When holding the one point alot of the laws of gravity for instance
>>> seem to be bent. The laws of muscles and streangth are broken. This is an
>>> example I can come up with.
>>>
>> i don't even know what "sacred law" is!
>>
>> if you believe in karma, and understand that time is simultaneous, then
>> what you do now effects the past as well as the present and future
>
> So then some of the Books which I find have changed, have changed for some
> cause
> other than my irrationality?
> Then some one is "Tampering" with Destiny.
> That would be the Ring.
> The Curse can only be broken when it is "Returned to the Deep Waters" I am the
> Mother Male of the "Ocean".
>
>
h elmer | espeance
in article 44d94d2a$0$18536$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net, slider at
sli...@anashram.com wrote on 8/8/06 9:53 pm:
>
> h elmer | espeance wrote...
>
>> azure finally speaks in words i understand, funny note too slider, how
>> true!
>
> ### - don't pay to be 'too' rational/scientific about everything heh :)
>
> + just an observation that most of the things we do are actually achieved in
> like unthinking manner... walking for example, or driving a car... in fact
> even thinking & talking is like playing a musical instrument in that it only
> flows/works/plays correctly when rationality per-se (thinking about it) is
> somewhat suspended/pushed into the background (e.g. learning to drive
> actually means learning to perform all the required combined/coordinated
> movements involved in doing so 'unconsciously' with reason just doing the
> steering :)
>
> (pray you never wake up while driving on the freeway iow hehe :)
>
>
>
>
>>> Am I acting myself, or am I fitting into what would be an
>>>>> appropriate mirror for the other person to see. Then where is me in
>>>>> all
>>>>> that. I would have to give up myself and become a reflection,
>>>>> knowingly so
>>>>> and with awareness to find any freedom in this system at all.
>>>>
>>>> ### - if the millipede tried to work out which leg it's going to move
>>>> next
>>>> in which order etc... then chances are it'd just slowly seize up and
>>>> fall
>>>> over :)
h elmer | espeance
please
in article 44D195B8...@pharae.org, Azure at ta...@pharae.org wrote on
8/3/06 1:20 am:
>
>
> slider wrote:
>>
>> "ThreeWolves" wrote...
>>> I must become mirrors for those that are around me. It seems to be a law in
>>> this time matrix.
>
> Mirror/Bubble is right, like Calighostro(?) the mirror or water, it
> "Reflects", the Dark Temple vs the Light, as in the Taj.
> Lady of the Lake
> Lug
> Paris
> Water!
>
> How the fuck am I suppost to find freedom, or a sense of
>>> individuality if I must become mirrors for others as a part of the law for
>>> this place.
>
> No, you do not reflect their wisdom, you mix it with your dispersion,
> you control the lights output.
> Each Spectrum is different and creates unique energy.
> You as mirror are the projecting dispersion of the spectral light which
> enters "YOU".
slider
### - I.O.W = in other words...
"h elmer | espeance" <espe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:C17A6FED.693E%espe...@gmail.com...
h elmer | espeance
to me that depends on circumstances
but I see what your inferring about making fools out of ourselves
clownishly
in article 10iMg.23320$kO3....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com, chris at
cr...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 9/8/06 12:46 pm:
]
h elmer | espeance
results and attaining certain things through or from belief systems, and
that's a part of the equation
i think that also falls into deriving meaning and value fulfillment
in article 450144ad$0$2686$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net, slider at
sli...@anashram.com wrote on 9/8/06 5:19 am:
h elmer | espeance
in article 4502a335$0$564$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net, slider at
sli...@anashram.com wrote on 9/9/06 6:13 am:
>> if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
>> everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
>> oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
>> my being, what does that all mean?
>
> ### - doesn't 'mean' anything (and/or is beyond meaning per se:) so the
> right thing to do is to stop trying to make it make some kind of sense
> related to whatever philosophy/trying to make it fit into some kind of
> scheme known or unknown etc (behaviour almost guaranteed to keep it all in a
> background state) and just leap in and go for a swim :)
>
> an oceanic feeling you say? well then yes go for a swim in it instead of
> trying to understand it from 2 meters away (i.e. it's not absolutely
> necessary to understand 'how' one swims in order to enjoy doing it :)
so be, in being?
>> yet, some people i believe are more natural at this, the
>> intuitive/psychic function, which is our birthright, ties into this
>> awareness, is a coping-survival mechanism, and sees in wholes rather
>> than parts, first
>
> ### - imho it's in us all without exception and just more pronounced in some
> more than in others is all (which seems to be nature's way) - the fact that
> we live in a society basically dedicated to eradicating all such former
> knowledge in-favour of the modern rational approach to all and sundry is an
> added factor whereby awareness is deliberately streamed/channelled in order
> to produce a particular 'type' of perception (perception can be groomed)
"latent" is the word i've had on my mind lately
i agree
>> you make a good point, about being hardwired for language, that all
>> philosophy is basically language, and therefore to rely on a philoso phy
>> (belief system), is a kind of crutch, which language is at the root of,
>> and interferes with our perception
>
> ### - if nothing else it proves that perception can indeed be moulded to
> fit, a realisation which at least leaves one with a choice (i.e. to mould or
> not to mould, that is the question hehe :)
working on my morning coffee, cartoons on in the background, back in a few .
. . ok
now, that's the uk spelling of "mold", but still there's no better word,
acculturation/enculturation,
>> let's explore this conundrum, if our beliefs filter our perception,
>> then without any beliefs we would perceive everything (as it it really
>> is), or perceive absolutely nothing, it is kind of one in the same
>
> ### - nice probe, plus if you mean swimming without attempting to analyse
> how you're doing it and so just enjoying the experience + learning from it
> directly + thereby... then yes i'd totally agree with your allusion (there's
> 2 totally different bodies of available knowledge :)
i want to make sure i'm lucid on this though:
experiential knowledge
(subjective, intuitive, phenomenal, sensational, etc.)
and
rational knowledge
(objective, analytic, cartesian, scientific, etc.)
the latter of which is an exploded subset of the first
comments?
>> we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
>> ineffable answer
>
> ### - the kind of reality we're talking about can never be a 'what is':)
is it a "why is" then? or just a colossal question mark?
>> does reality exist outside of my perception?
>
> ### - Being is the reality... getting stuck in/being born into some
> arbitrary hell is another kind of reality, one that mankind in general
> has yet to master (probably due to his attachment to the variety of them)
>
>> is reality what one makes it?
>
> ### - one of the problems with this little extra bit of awareness us humans
> have is that it certainly can be what we make it, at least until a person
> learns to island-hop, whereon it all eventually becomes much of a muchness
> (i.e. if you've seen one cult then you've seen them all kinda thing)
>
>> is it a combination of both?
>
> ### - is the experience of swimming a combination of both?? (laughing:)
>
(this is initially why i responded to this, laughing too), anyhow, by
combination i meant what we create and some sort of hard reality that exists
besides our consciousness
h elmer | espeance
channeling information too:
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=5734
in article 0PkNg.543713$IK3.10035@pd7tw1no, ThreeWolves at
three...@shaw.ca wrote on 9/11/06 4:46 pm:
h elmer | espeance
from your paradigm then what happens when a water crystal melts
your handle on archetypes and myth seems profound, so what does the
cyclops ref mean?
h elmer | espeance
maybe you can translate the symbologies and concepts into laymans terms
for me?
thanks
h elmer | espeance
petrog.s are carved into stone and i guess could be described as more
"primitive"
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
>i really enjoyed this post, snipped, and inserts below
>>> if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
>>> everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
>>> oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
>>> my being, what does that all mean?
>>
>> ### - doesn't 'mean' anything (and/or is beyond meaning per se:) so the
>> right thing to do is to stop trying to make it make some kind of sense
>> related to whatever philosophy/trying to make it fit into some kind of
>> scheme known or unknown etc (behaviour almost guaranteed to keep it all
>> in a
>> background state) and just leap in and go for a swim :)
>>
>> an oceanic feeling you say? well then yes go for a swim in it instead of
>> trying to understand it from 2 meters away (i.e. it's not absolutely
>> necessary to understand 'how' one swims in order to enjoy doing it :)
>
> so be, in being?
### - well yes : living & being just like the animals do (in the moment &
silent) - the difference being that humans are actually quite a lot more
aware than the animals, something that becomes immediately apparent once
inner-silence is entered into... (i.e. even without language we're still
smarter/more aware than animals can ever be)
>
>>> yet, some people i believe are more natural at this, the
>>> intuitive/psychic function, which is our birthright, ties into this
>>> awareness, is a coping-survival mechanism, and sees in wholes rather
>>> than parts, first
>>
>> ### - imho it's in us all without exception and just more pronounced in
>> some
>> more than in others is all (which seems to be nature's way) - the fact
>> that
>> we live in a society basically dedicated to eradicating all such former
>> knowledge in-favour of the modern rational approach to all and sundry is
>> an
>> added factor whereby awareness is deliberately streamed/channelled in
>> order
>> to produce a particular 'type' of perception (perception can be groomed)
>
> "latent" is the word i've had on my mind lately
>
> i agree
### - 'forced' into latency after generations of deliberately expanding
thought & thinking until thought & thinking became the default/norm/took
precedence in our awareness...
>
>>> you make a good point, about being hardwired for language, that all
>>> philosophy is basically language, and therefore to rely on a philoso phy
>>> (belief system), is a kind of crutch, which language is at the root of,
>>> and interferes with our perception
>>
>> ### - if nothing else it proves that perception can indeed be moulded to
>> fit, a realisation which at least leaves one with a choice (i.e. to mould
>> or
>> not to mould, that is the question hehe :)
>
> working on my morning coffee, cartoons on in the background, back in a few
> .
> . . ok
>
> now, that's the uk spelling of "mold", but still there's no better word,
> acculturation/enculturation,
### - the programming of many civilisations (for whatever sociological
reasons they had at the time, the culture of the day) has revealed the
process + how it works/shapes/bends perception... the challenge of being
aware of this being to 'self-manipulate' hehe (iow to deliberately explore
perception (the near unknown) by deliberately manipulating it)
>
>>> let's explore this conundrum, if our beliefs filter our perception,
>>> then without any beliefs we would perceive everything (as it it really
>>> is), or perceive absolutely nothing, it is kind of one in the same
>>
>> ### - nice probe, plus if you mean swimming without attempting to analyse
>> how you're doing it and so just enjoying the experience + learning from
>> it
>> directly + thereby... then yes i'd totally agree with your allusion
>> (there's
>> 2 totally different bodies of available knowledge :)
>
> i want to make sure i'm lucid on this though:
>
> experiential knowledge
> (subjective, intuitive, phenomenal, sensational, etc.)
>
> and
>
> rational knowledge
> (objective, analytic, cartesian, scientific, etc.)
>
> the latter of which is an exploded subset of the first
>
> comments?
### - you 'could' say that... plus well, yes... at least in the sense that
the latter has gradually gained dominance over the former until the former
has become almost a kind of myth... which if realised from the intellectual
pov creates 2 seemingly available pov's: that of an invented self & not-self
>
>>> we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
>>> ineffable answer
>>
>> ### - the kind of reality we're talking about can never be a 'what is':)
>
> is it a "why is" then? or just a colossal question mark?
### - (going for a short-circuit here;) - so do you think the animals ever
look around with that kind of question on/in their minds? (i.e. there's no
possible solutions/answers for us, there's only choices:)
>
>>> does reality exist outside of my perception?
>>
>> ### - Being is the reality... getting stuck in/being born into some
>> arbitrary hell is another kind of reality, one that mankind in general
>> has yet to master (probably due to his attachment to the variety of them)
>>
>>> is reality what one makes it?
>>
>> ### - one of the problems with this little extra bit of awareness us
>> humans
>> have is that it certainly can be what we make it, at least until a person
>> learns to island-hop, whereon it all eventually becomes much of a
>> muchness
>> (i.e. if you've seen one cult then you've seen them all kinda thing)
>>
>>> is it a combination of both?
>>
>> ### - is the experience of swimming a combination of both?? (laughing:)
>>
> (this is initially why i responded to this, laughing too), anyhow, by
> combination i meant what we create and some sort of hard reality that
> exists
> besides our consciousness
### - personally i think that's just going too far? at least in the sense
that i really don't think a cow (or any animal) would never even
'ask/consider' something like that...
meaning... that to truly suspend all thought & thinking is to deliberately
place oneself (perception-wise) far beyond all such ideas and conceptions,
and from which pov something like that would actually require a step
back/down into areas of rationality to deal with...
iow imho the real problem is with the seeming autonomy of the rational mind,
an autonomy which in reality is nothing more than a form of inertia, a
gathered momentum which doesn't stop (or change direction) until
deliberately or accidentally interfered with... (which if you think about it
is the very 'essence' of Existentionalism, in that realising the whole
thrust of rationality per se is to limit & proscribe the infinite into
seemingly manageable chunks, one simply begins to turn it all off, the
better to explore the reality hidden in the background and/or long held
at-bay 'by' it...
a tool that became a shield that became a prison...
we took a step towards extinction : we 'specialised' :)
(probably seemed like a good idea at the time? plus little did we know the
trouble we'd get into with it ultimately heh, basically a journey into and
exploration of... insanity! lol :)
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
> as i re-read and catch up on this thread, i'm noticing your comments about
> results and attaining certain things through or from belief systems, and
> that's a part of the equation
>
> i think that also falls into deriving meaning and value fulfillment
### - only if one is 'looking' for derived meanings and value fulfilments...
the (often) cynical manipulation of belief systems to produce
sociological results is probably ultimately responsible for producing our
modern world of confusion and collective gullibility/suggestibility...
h elmer | espeance
experience, whether we're looking for it or not
h elmer | espeance
slider wrote:
> h elmer | espeance wrote...
>
> >i really enjoyed this post, snipped, and inserts below
>
> >>> if we modulate that up, i notice i can bring this awareness into my
> >>> everday existence, like right now, it is a kind of background feeling,
> >>> oceanic, other times i don't notice it, or allow only that to permeate
> >>> my being, what does that all mean?
> >>
> >> ### - doesn't 'mean' anything (and/or is beyond meaning per se:) so the
> >> right thing to do is to stop trying to make it make some kind of sense
> >> related to whatever philosophy/trying to make it fit into some kind of
> >> scheme known or unknown etc (behaviour almost guaranteed to keep it all
> >> in a
> >> background state) and just leap in and go for a swim :)
> >>
> >> an oceanic feeling you say? well then yes go for a swim in it instead of
> >> trying to understand it from 2 meters away (i.e. it's not absolutely
> >> necessary to understand 'how' one swims in order to enjoy doing it :)
> >
> > so be, in being?
>
> ### - well yes : living & being just like the animals do (in the moment &
> silent) - the difference being that humans are actually quite a lot more
> aware than the animals, something that becomes immediately apparent once
> inner-silence is entered into... (i.e. even without language we're still
> smarter/more aware than animals can ever be)
you're often referring to animal awareness, being and experience, and i
have to agree that the animals have much that we can learn from, maybe
more than each other, and us typing back and forth here (duh!)
what we have, your difference, is the moment of reflection, and object
constancy (combined which allow us past contemplation and probable
extrapolation)
> >>> yet, some people i believe are more natural at this, the
> >>> intuitive/psychic function, which is our birthright, ties into this
> >>> awareness, is a coping-survival mechanism, and sees in wholes rather
> >>> than parts, first
> >>
> >> ### - imho it's in us all without exception and just more pronounced in
> >> some
> >> more than in others is all (which seems to be nature's way) - the fact
> >> that
> >> we live in a society basically dedicated to eradicating all such former
> >> knowledge in-favour of the modern rational approach to all and sundry is
> >> an
> >> added factor whereby awareness is deliberately streamed/channelled in
> >> order
> >> to produce a particular 'type' of perception (perception can be groomed)
> >
> > "latent" is the word i've had on my mind lately
> >
> > i agree
>
> ### - 'forced' into latency after generations of deliberately expanding
> thought & thinking until thought & thinking became the default/norm/took
> precedence in our awareness...
forced by our own choices to explore certain aspects of experience in
physical reality
> >>> you make a good point, about being hardwired for language, that all
> >>> philosophy is basically language, and therefore to rely on a philoso phy
> >>> (belief system), is a kind of crutch, which language is at the root of,
> >>> and interferes with our perception
> >>
> >> ### - if nothing else it proves that perception can indeed be moulded to
> >> fit, a realisation which at least leaves one with a choice (i.e. to mould
> >> or
> >> not to mould, that is the question hehe :)
> >
> > working on my morning coffee, cartoons on in the background, back in a few
> > .
> > . . ok
> >
> > now, that's the uk spelling of "mold", but still there's no better word,
> > acculturation/enculturation,
>
> ### - the programming of many civilisations (for whatever sociological
> reasons they had at the time, the culture of the day) has revealed the
> process + how it works/shapes/bends perception... the challenge of being
> aware of this being to 'self-manipulate' hehe (iow to deliberately explore
> perception (the near unknown) by deliberately manipulating it)
cheers
> >>> let's explore this conundrum, if our beliefs filter our perception,
> >>> then without any beliefs we would perceive everything (as it it really
> >>> is), or perceive absolutely nothing, it is kind of one in the same
> >>
> >> ### - nice probe, plus if you mean swimming without attempting to analyse
> >> how you're doing it and so just enjoying the experience + learning from
> >> it
> >> directly + thereby... then yes i'd totally agree with your allusion
> >> (there's
> >> 2 totally different bodies of available knowledge :)
> >
> > i want to make sure i'm lucid on this though:
> >
> > experiential knowledge
> > (subjective, intuitive, phenomenal, sensational, etc.)
> >
> > and
> >
> > rational knowledge
> > (objective, analytic, cartesian, scientific, etc.)
> >
> > the latter of which is an exploded subset of the first
> >
> > comments?
>
> ### - you 'could' say that... plus well, yes... at least in the sense that
> the latter has gradually gained dominance over the former until the former
> has become almost a kind of myth... which if realised from the intellectual
> pov creates 2 seemingly available pov's: that of an invented self & not-self
i'm getting confused now, in the first half of your response we are in
accord, but then you lend your thought to a new idea(?) what do you
mean by "inverted self & not-self"?
> >>> we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
> >>> ineffable answer
> >>
> >> ### - the kind of reality we're talking about can never be a 'what is':)
> >
> > is it a "why is" then? or just a colossal question mark?
>
> ### - (going for a short-circuit here;) - so do you think the animals ever
> look around with that kind of question on/in their minds? (i.e. there's no
> possible solutions/answers for us, there's only choices:)
no the animals don't have that kind of question on their minds (the
strange hold is on me), so wemake choices, and be aware of the journey,
path, and not focus on the destination (i seem to recall something
about a warrior's path in SR or DJ:YWK to this effect, might as well
add some inference to posting in adc . . . )
> >>> does reality exist outside of my perception?
> >>
> >> ### - Being is the reality... getting stuck in/being born into some
> >> arbitrary hell is another kind of reality, one that mankind in general
> >> has yet to master (probably due to his attachment to the variety of them)
> >>
> >>> is reality what one makes it?
> >>
> >> ### - one of the problems with this little extra bit of awareness us
> >> humans
> >> have is that it certainly can be what we make it, at least until a person
> >> learns to island-hop, whereon it all eventually becomes much of a
> >> muchness
> >> (i.e. if you've seen one cult then you've seen them all kinda thing)
> >>
> >>> is it a combination of both?
> >>
> >> ### - is the experience of swimming a combination of both?? (laughing:)
> >>
> > (this is initially why i responded to this, laughing too), anyhow, by
> > combination i meant what we create and some sort of hard reality that
> > exists
> > besides our consciousness
>
> ### - personally i think that's just going too far? at least in the sense
> that i really don't think a cow (or any animal) would never even
> 'ask/consider' something like that...
what is too far? can you clarify? i'm losing the train of thought
here
ok, remembering you'd mentioned in another thread on this subject about
reality being an attainable state of awareness, and something that
existed long before humanity was around
> meaning... that to truly suspend all thought & thinking is to deliberately
> place oneself (perception-wise) far beyond all such ideas and conceptions,
> and from which pov something like that would actually require a step
> back/down into areas of rationality to deal with...
>
> iow imho the real problem is with the seeming autonomy of the rational mind,
> an autonomy which in reality is nothing more than a form of inertia, a
> gathered momentum which doesn't stop (or change direction) until
> deliberately or accidentally interfered with... (which if you think about it
> is the very 'essence' of Existentionalism, in that realising the whole
> thrust of rationality per se is to limit & proscribe the infinite into
> seemingly manageable chunks, one simply begins to turn it all off, the
> better to explore the reality hidden in the background and/or long held
> at-bay 'by' it...
>
> a tool that became a shield that became a prison...
yes, nicely put, though i do see the aspect of existentialism - that
focuses the consciousness on oneself, and for self-responsibility,
self-analysis, and self-experimentation, as healthy
> we took a step towards extinction : we 'specialised' :)
a direction, which needs cource correction
> (probably seemed like a good idea at the time? plus little did we know the
> trouble we'd get into with it ultimately heh, basically a journey into and
> exploration of... insanity! lol :)
yeah a step in reaction to other previous insanity and imbalances too
slider
### - sort of + not really disagreeing... but again, only if one is actively
seeking such intellectual stimulation, and because in the moment such things
are not a consideration at all (e.g. only with some sort of an intellectual
'hindsight' can one possibly say things like that/come to that conclusion, a
hindsight that's blasted away by the immediacy of the moment one is
experiencing kind of thing)
h elmer | espeance wrote...
slider
h elmer | espeance wrote...
>> > so be, in being?
>>
>> ### - well yes : living & being just like the animals do (in the moment &
>> silent) - the difference being that humans are actually quite a lot more
>> aware than the animals, something that becomes immediately apparent once
>> inner-silence is entered into... (i.e. even without language we're still
>> smarter/more aware than animals can ever be)
>
> you're often referring to animal awareness, being and experience, and i
> have to agree that the animals have much that we can learn from, maybe
> more than each other, and us typing back and forth here (duh!)
### - lol :)
>
> what we have, your difference, is the moment of reflection, and object
> constancy (combined which allow us past contemplation and probable
> extrapolation)
### - just so long as one understands that to do that is to actually depart
from the experience of the immediate moment
>> > "latent" is the word i've had on my mind lately
>> >
>> > i agree
>>
>> ### - 'forced' into latency after generations of deliberately expanding
>> thought & thinking until thought & thinking became the default/norm/took
>> precedence in our awareness...
>
> forced by our own choices to explore certain aspects of experience in
> physical reality
### - to the exclusion of everything else, yes... even to the exclusion of
reality per se (so powerful is the mind + its ability to focus)
>> > experiential knowledge
>> > (subjective, intuitive, phenomenal, sensational, etc.)
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > rational knowledge
>> > (objective, analytic, cartesian, scientific, etc.)
>> >
>> > the latter of which is an exploded subset of the first
>> >
>> > comments?
>>
>> ### - you 'could' say that... plus well, yes... at least in the sense
>> that
>> the latter has gradually gained dominance over the former until the
>> former
>> has become almost a kind of myth... which if realised from the
>> intellectual
>> pov creates 2 seemingly available pov's: that of an invented self &
>> not-self
>
> i'm getting confused now, in the first half of your response we are in
> accord, but then you lend your thought to a new idea(?) what do you
> mean by "inverted self & not-self"?
### - 'invented' not inverted... in the sense that really there is only the
one original awareness, added now to which is an intellectually 'invented'
awareness... that gives, from the pov of the latter, the illusion of there
actually being more than just the one awareness...
e.g. from the intellectual pov there's 2 possible available perceptions of
the world, but from the pov of the original awareness there's only itself
and the things you can do with it which 'includes' inventing an illusionary
intellectual awareness and then seeing everything from what looks like 2
possible pov's
>
>> >>> we get down to the eternal question, what is reality? with an
>> >>> ineffable answer
>> >>
>> >> ### - the kind of reality we're talking about can never be a 'what
>> >> is':)
>> >
>> > is it a "why is" then? or just a colossal question mark?
>>
>> ### - (going for a short-circuit here;) - so do you think the animals
>> ever
>> look around with that kind of question on/in their minds? (i.e. there's
>> no
>> possible solutions/answers for us, there's only choices:)
>
> no the animals don't have that kind of question on their minds (the
> strange hold is on me), so wemake choices, and be aware of the journey,
> path, and not focus on the destination (i seem to recall something
> about a warrior's path in SR or DJ:YWK to this effect, might as well
> add some inference to posting in adc . . . )
### - not easy to convey/impart... but in buddhism (for example) one is
aware of the path one is on right up to the point when the path itself is
abandoned (i.e. at some point you have to get off the road/path in order to
become one with the thing one was travelling along a path looking for...
e.g. one follows the finger pointing at the moon (the path) until the moon
itself is seen and then the path (to seeing it) is forgotten... iow one's
destination is not the same as the path 'leading' to that destination...
kind of thing (the path is not the destination)
>> >>> is reality what one makes it?
>> >>
>> >> ### - one of the problems with this little extra bit of awareness us
>> >> humans
>> >> have is that it certainly can be what we make it, at least until a
>> >> person
>> >> learns to island-hop, whereon it all eventually becomes much of a
>> >> muchness
>> >> (i.e. if you've seen one cult then you've seen them all kinda thing)
>> >>
>> >>> is it a combination of both?
>> >>
>> >> ### - is the experience of swimming a combination of both??
>> >> (laughing:)
>> >>
>> > (this is initially why i responded to this, laughing too), anyhow, by
>> > combination i meant what we create and some sort of hard reality that
>> > exists
>> > besides our consciousness
>>
>> ### - personally i think that's just going too far? at least in the sense
>> that i really don't think a cow (or any animal) would never even
>> 'ask/consider' something like that...
>
> what is too far? can you clarify? i'm losing the train of thought
> here
### - smile, i guess what i'm sorta saying is that to even 'consider' such
things from an intellectual pov (something that seems utterly correct from
the pov of the intellect/reason) is to actually miss the point AND the
moment! (iow i'm probably suggesting that intellect doesn't even actually
'exist' in the moment and that to try to carry it there (into the moment) is
to actually 'miss' hitting the target (the moment) and to remain in
intellectuality & reason...
>
> ok, remembering you'd mentioned in another thread on this subject about
> reality being an attainable state of awareness, and something that
> existed long before humanity was around
### - sure...
>
>> meaning... that to truly suspend all thought & thinking is to
>> deliberately
>> place oneself (perception-wise) far beyond all such ideas and
>> conceptions,
>> and from which pov something like that would actually require a step
>> back/down into areas of rationality to deal with...
>>
>> iow imho the real problem is with the seeming autonomy of the rational
>> mind,
>> an autonomy which in reality is nothing more than a form of inertia, a
>> gathered momentum which doesn't stop (or change direction) until
>> deliberately or accidentally interfered with... (which if you think about
>> it
>> is the very 'essence' of Existentionalism, in that realising the whole
>> thrust of rationality per se is to limit & proscribe the infinite into
>> seemingly manageable chunks, one simply begins to turn it all off, the
>> better to explore the reality hidden in the background and/or long held
>> at-bay 'by' it...
>>
>> a tool that became a shield that became a prison...
>
> yes, nicely put, though i do see the aspect of existentialism - that
> focuses the consciousness on oneself, and for self-responsibility,
> self-analysis, and self-experimentation, as healthy
### - initially, yes... and because for some people being an intellectual IS
their path to perfection (i.e. for them it's the finger pointing at the
moon) which if trained properly/given direction actually raises reason per
se up out of the mire (and hook/trap) of average human endeavour until it
begins to reflect upon itself and its own workings + ultimately the way it
colours/filters one total perception of the world, a point at which it
becomes possible (for reason, and because it sees the possibility of it) to
begin to hold itself back thus allowing one to increasingly perceive
accordingly/beyond it...
>
>> we took a step towards extinction : we 'specialised' :)
>
> a direction, which needs cource correction
### - absolutely! or possibly not depending on how one considers the
intellect first comes into being... (e.g. first one has to 'have' a
functioning intellect before then training it to learn to hold itself back)
>
>> (probably seemed like a good idea at the time? plus little did we know
>> the
>> trouble we'd get into with it ultimately heh, basically a journey into
>> and
>> exploration of... insanity! lol :)
>
> yeah a step in reaction to other previous insanity and imbalances too
### - from 'that' pov there appears to be at least 2 levels of reason... the
average one, and the one that eventually learns to perceive itself as a
deliberately 'limiting' factor in terms of perceiving and/or of acting/being
in the world...
e.g. it's at that precise point you get Sartre sitting in some small local
park/garden, and for the first time allowing himself to deliberately
perceive the world (or that garden anyway) from a 'non-intellectual' pov
(e.g. he describes the garden 'smiling' at him when he turns to go hehe:)
a form of drugs 'without' the drugs? heh heh heh :)
ThreeWolves
>
> >
> > what we have, your difference, is the moment of reflection, and object
> > constancy (combined which allow us past contemplation and probable
> > extrapolation)
>
> ### - just so long as one understands that to do that is to actually
depart
> from the experience of the immediate moment
>
>
000 I have been introduced to the five second rule, I can be fully in my
mastery for the next five seconds, thus untill infinity, what a trip.
Azure
ThreeWolves wrote:
Zen concept of the Beautiful Life of Nothingness, worse an Apathetic Concept
at that.
To Concern yourself with anything is but a trap.
Sorry as a Physical Being I am trapped and apathy is not the answer which
enlightens me!
Azure
ThreeWolves wrote:
>
> "Azure" <ta...@pharae.org> wrote in message
> news:4563F1E8...@pharae.org...
> > > >
> > > ThreeWolves Wrote:
> > >
> > > 000 I have been introduced to the five second rule, I can be fully in my
> > > mastery for the next five seconds, thus untill infinity, what a trip.
> >
> > Zen concept of the Beautiful Life of Nothingness, worse an Apathetic
> Concept
> > at that.
> > To Concern yourself with anything is but a trap.
> > Sorry as a Physical Being I am trapped and apathy is not the answer which
> > enlightens me!
> >
> >
>
> 000 Maybe get it down to being present and new every nano second, or would
> that to be an act of redundancy. Even though time can be stepped out of, I
> feel that at times I do have to live in it. LOL.
Like you say:
Even though time can be stepped out of, I
feel that at times I do have to live in it.
Me I don't follow the Orthodox Teachings, and find myself going more and
more to the Feminine.
D'Anu, the She who was the "Great Mother", the Mag-Danu!
Everyone wants different Gods my god is better than yours.
Most are "Local Gods" "People", born of Flesh.
"GOD" is different and defined as such.
Few catch the difference.
But the "ONE", D'Anu, the "Shea" is a concept which when looked upon is
actually shared across the world.
Each Religion which has it's basis in "One God", does actually stem from
the same source.
Yhvh, Y-O-Gah, Elph, D'Anu, Gia, Wakontonka(?Please enlighten don't take
insult if I am wrong on spelling).
The One is the Concept Karnac drove the people out for.
Hind became the hunted.
Hunters chased the Hind across the world.
Mayan/Maian, Wet Nurse of Akhinaton and Neffertti.
Eric the Red did not find America by Chance, he was following an Ancient
Legend.
Guess what it exists, American Stonehendge, a Hyksus (Scoti/Egyptian)
Artifact on the American East Coast.
Magic People who vanished in relation to the
Night of the Kachina.
ThreeWolves
> Artifact on the American East Coast.
> Magic People who vanished in relation to the
> Night of the Kachina.
Can you tell me more about the Night of the Kachina
ThreeWolves
Azure
What I know of it, my side disappeared that night.
The legends talk of a battle where in the Hopi ate the Ancient Ones who
Built the Cliff Dwellings (Castles in the Clouds).
That night they learned of their wrongs.
Do not eat of the Salmon of Knowledge, unless you want the Knowledge.
The Great Mother and her People made the Hopi AWARE, that night.
paveh...@gmail.com
Prescott Sheldon Bush
M A D E B Y J A C K P A R S O N S ? ! *
http://mars.systemsfirst.com/Colorized/1P132181463ESF05A6P2560.jpg
" Frank Malina, Jack Parsons, Jack Sarfatti "
http://sinisterforces.info/SF1_samples_text/SF1b.htm
http://leonardo.info/isast/frankstory.html
"'You could give Aristotle a tutorial.
And you could thrill him to the core
of his being. Aristotle was an
encyclopedic polymath, an all time
intellect. Yet not only can you know
more than him about the world.
You also can have a deeper
understanding of how everything works.
Such is the privilege of living after
Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Planck,
Watson, Crick and their colleagues.'"
--Richard Dawkins
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~dawkins/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bush Land Purchase in Paraguay: http://tinyurl.com/y43k6e
Iraq war 'helped al-Qaeda recruit'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3756650.stm
"The war in Iraq probably helped boost al-Qaeda
recruitment, according to a report from leading
Western think-tank.
"The report, the annual Military Balance by the
International Institute for Strategic Studies
in London, does not dwell on the causes of the war.
But it does consider its effects and has some
highly critical comments.
"It says that the risks of terrorism to Westerners
and Western assets in Arab countries 'appeared to
increase after the Iraq war began in March 2003'..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3756650.stm
Bush Crime Family plans
escape route to South
American sanctuary
to avoid International
War Crimes Tribunal.
http://tinyurl.com/y2oxmv
Robert Gates, George W. Bush's choice to replace
Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary, is a trusted
figure within the Bush Family's inner circle, but there
are lingering questions about whether Gates
is a trustworthy public official. [...]
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/110906.html
Planned Bush Land Purchase in Paraguay
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=5699
Paraguay
There are rumors circulating in Latin America
that the Bush family plans to purchase 98,000 acres
of land in Paraguay. It has been reported that the
president's daughter, Jenna Bush, is involved with
the purchase and may be the owner of the land.
The land purchase is near the triple border
between Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina, and
stands over one of the largest reserves of fresh
water on the planet, a gigantic aquifer that lies
under parts of Brazil, Urugay, Paraguay and
Argentina, and is larger than Texas and
California put together.
The alleged purchase has caused concern among
leftist governments in the region, because of the
huge natural resources in the area. However, the
Bush family is also associated with a environmental
reserve in the area called the
Fatherland Foundation, or Fundacion Patria.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=5699
"Bush - Nazi Dealings Continued Until 1951" - Federal Documents
By John Buchanan and Stacey Michael
http://tinyurl.com/ukdq from The New Hampshire Gazette
After the seizures in late 1942 of five U.S. enterprises
he managed on behalf of Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen,
Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush,
failed to divest himself of more than a dozen
"enemy national" relationships that continued until
as late as 1951, newly-discovered U.S. government
documents reveal.
By 1953, he had his shitbrained son involved.
George HW Bush would eventually distinguish
himself and do his daddy proud by getting deeply
involved with fanatical right wing elements of
the CIA and Cuban exile community who would
eventually be involved in the assassination
of president Kennedy.
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/George_H.W._Bush_JFK_assassination_letter
"In 1953, Bush got money from Brown Brothers
Harriman and, with partners Hugh and Bill Liedtke,
formed Zapata Petroleum. By the late 1950s they
were millionaires. Bush bought subsidiary Zapata
Off-Shore from his partners and went into business
on his own in 1954. By 1958, the new company was
drilling on the Cay Sal Bank in the Eastern Gulf of
Mexico. These islands had been leased to Nixon
supporter and CIA contractor Howard Hughes
the previous year and were later used as a base
for CIA raids on Cuba. The CIA was using
companies like Zapata to stage and supply
secret missions attacking Fidel Castro's Cuban
government in advance of the Bay of Pigs invasion.
The CIA's codename for that invasion was
"Operation Zapata." In 1981, all Securities and
Exchange Commission filings for Zapata Off-Shore
between 1960 and 1966 were destroyed. In
other words, the year Bush became vice president,
important records detailing his years at his drilling
company disappeared. In 1969, Zapata bought
the United Fruit Company of Boston, another
company with strong CIA connections."
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com
Land Purchase In Paraguay Ahead
Of Expected War Crimes Charges
http://tinyurl.com/y43k6e
£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:05:02 GMT, Indrid Cold <indri...@op.net>
wrote:
Two Scientists Describe An Extraterrestrial
Biological Entity Called Linda Moulton Howe
http://www.boomspeed.com/joseph2/J-Rod.htm
http://www.2012.com.au/Credo.html
|||0o0|||
Credo Mutwa: ... Far too many people fall into the temptation of
looking upon these "aliens" as supernatural creatures.
They are just solid creatures, sir. They are like us; and,
furthermore, I'm going to make a statement here which will
come as a surprise: the Grey aliens, sir, are edible. Surprised?
Martin: Please continue.
Credo Mutwa: I said, sir, the Grey aliens are edible.
Martin: Yes, I heard that and I'm anxious to....
Credo Mutwa: Their flesh is protein, just as animal flesh on Earth is,
but, anyone who ingests Grey alien flesh comes very, very close to
death. I nearly did.
[...]
And this feeling of amazing intensity of feeling lasted for over
2 months. When I listened to music, it was as if there was music
behind the music, behind the music. When I painted pictures-which
is what I do for a living-and when I was holding a particular
color on the tip of my brush, it was as if there were other colors
in that color. It was an indescribable thing, sir. Even now I cannot
describe it.
Great Zulu Shaman And Elder Credo Mutwa
http://www.2012.com.au/Credo.html
[ See also: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com ]
|||____________________________________________________|||
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"... The simultaneous incarnations also start 3rd density
with a clean memory slate in order to participate in the Game.
But this group is adding to the Higher Self's memories from all
incarnations at once, scattered throughout Earther 3rd density
time periods. In both cases NO pre-Game memories are lost, just
hidden. What can work against spiritual advancement is the
desire for physical immortality..." -- Matrix V
Leading Edge International Research Group
http://www.trufax.org/matrix5/welcome.html
£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$£&$
<> The older you get the stronger in potency your amygdala grows
<> for Draco Reptilian Recreational Consumption. Everybody
<> knows that. Everybody knows!! Everybody knows!!!!
<> Everybody knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<> http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/amygdala.htm
<> Memes... http://users.ox.ac.uk/~dawkins/
<>
<> [][ The Lizzy Empress, "4D-Self", is having a banquet tonight!
<> Please round up 50,000 3rd-Density-Humanoids from any one
<> of our many fine local, neuroentertainment-livestock-facilities.
<> Be certain to prep all candidates by neuro-shock-reality
<> enhancement, sub cardiac arrest levels only. Fully apprise
<> them all of their former comfortable delusions and immanent
<> excrutiatingly painful and subjectively near eternal
<> hyper-attenuated demise.You may choose the dessert. ][]
<>
<> [][Waiter, I'll have the quadruped mammal raised in a
<> confined indoor pen and pseudo-humanely slaughtered,
<> char-broiled , thinly sliced and tastefully
<> arranged on a warmed, ceramic plate, please.][]
The Consortium for Independent Journalism, Inc.
http://consortiumnews.com/
... Kozyrev simply went ahead and DID IT - see:
http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/kozyrev.txt
As Time has to do with Rotation, there are many possibilities here.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=n+a+kozyrev+paper&btnG=Google+Search
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Aleksandrovich_Kozyrev
Confessions of a Crop-Circle Maker:
An Interview with John Lundberg
By Caryn Anscomb
http://www.starstreamresearch.com/confessions.htm
[...]
"It really was a revelation to me,
seeing the disconnect between what
we were doing -- flattening cereal
crop with planks of wood -- and
what our works audience was
perceiving, which could be
anything from physiological and
psychological effects brought on
by visiting the circles, to
electronic equipment failures or
malfunctions, alleged curative
powers, or the inverse, reports
of people feeling nauseous in our
creations. I think this was the
hook that pulled us deeper into
the phenomenon, all of the
narratives that were attached to
our work, the mythology and
folklore that was built up around
it. It can be very intoxicating
and exciting for an artist.
We weren't pushing paint around
on a canvas that sat in a sterile
gallery environment; we were quite
literally forming and shaping the
culture that surrounded us.
The circles we created could be
seen as virulent mind viruses or
memes that traveled right around
the world permeating both
underground and popular culture.
I have to say that when Rod and
I were first creating circles,
we didn't have a clear idea of
the origin of the other circles
out there in fields, we were
completely open about who or what
were the authors. To give you an
insight into our early thought
processes, we had designed a
series of formations that used
sigils, (pictorial spells),
after lots of discussion we
actually decided not to create
any of those designs, just in
case the spells actually worked!"
-- John Lundberg
www.circlemakers.org
http://www.starstreamresearch.com/confessions.htm
_\|/_
The great Robert Anton Wilson might describe
these works of art as: "Futurist Psychology
and Guerilla Ontology..."
http://www.rawilson.com/who.html
The late, great Nikolai Aleksandrovich Kozyrev
might describe these works of art as:
"Torsion fields and their experimental cereal-mythic manifestations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Aleksandrovich_Kozyrev
And, the late great Sigil Magician, Austin Osman Spare, might describe
these works of art as: "An Unparalleled Focus of Magickial Will."
"Sigils are the art of believing,
my invention for making belief organic,
ergo, true belief." A.O.S. [1886-1956]
http://www.hermetic.com/spare/auto_drawing.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=Austin+Osman+Spare
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Austin+Osman+Spare%2C+SIGIL
http://www.starstreamresearch.com/confessions.htm
The Stargate Conspiracy
by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince (1999)
http://www.namebase.org/sources/fL.html
Acharya S.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm
"... JEHOVAH 1 is a VENGEFUL GOD OF WRATH!
JEHOVAH 1 - a.k.a. YAHWEH - is a mad alien,
full of eyes round about, He cometh with the
clouds, radioactive, all-pervading, He has
forged His covenant with the SubGenius
in CHAINS of GENETIC PROGRAMMING and DEMANDS
OBEISANCE to His caveman sense of humor.
He has been denying us SLACK and what He is
making us do dates back to Homo Connectus,
First Whole Man; only by letting our bodies
obey the Code of financial lust survival
that is built into them can our brains
be freed from his INEVITABLE FIST."
http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet_p4.html
Extremely Low Frequency: http://tinyurl.com/asgj
Microwaving Iraq by "William Thomas"
A Convergence Weekly exclusive on secret US attempts to
"pacify" Iraq with microwave weapons.
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Microwaving_Iraq.htm
Desperate to improve images of civilian carnage, US commanders
are using portable electromagnetic-frequency weapons in Fallujah
and other "hot spots" in the Sunni Triangle to pacify restive
neighborhoods with invisible EM radiation. "Active Denial"
antenna arrays mounted on Humvees are also being deployed to
panic and disperse hostile crowds by flash-burning exposed
flesh with microwaves. But unintended side effects from the
hidden rooftop transmitters are reportedly triggering violent
attacks by exposed insurgents--while leading to AWOL rates
of up to 15% among US forces disoriented by these same weapons,
as well as the electromagnetic emanations from high-power
radars, radios and "jammers".
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Microwaving_Iraq.htm
RED UFO: http://tinyurl.com/yar65v
RED UAV: http://tinyurl.com/ylwzhn
RED RED: http://tinyurl.com/yeqv62
MORPHIC FIELDS AND MORPHIC RESONANCE
An Introduction
by Rupert Sheldrake
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Morphic/morphic_intro.html
----------------------------------------------------------
In the hypothesis of formative causation, discussed in
detail in my books A NEW SCIENCE OF LIFE and
THE PRESENCE OF THE PAST, I propose that memory is
inherent in nature. Most of the so-called laws of
nature are more like habits.
My interest in evolutionary habits arose when I was
engaged in research in developmental biology, and
was reinforced by reading Charles Darwin, for whom
the habits of organisms were of central importance.
As Francis Huxley has pointed out, Darwin's most
famous book could more appropriately have been
entitled The Origin of Habits.
Morphic fields in biology Over the course of fifteen years
of research on plant development, I came to the conclusion
that for understanding the development of plants, their
morphogenesis, genes and gene products are not enough.
Morphogenesis also depends on organizing fields.
The same arguments apply to the development of animals.
Since the 1920s many developmental biologists have
proposed that biological organization depends on fields,
variously called biological fields, or developmental
fields, or positional fields, or morphogenetic fields.
All cells come from other cells, and all cells inherit
fields of organization. Genes are part of this
organization. They play an essential role.
But they do not explain the organization itself.
Why not?
Thanks to molecular biology, we know what genes do.
They enable organisms to make particular proteins.
Other genes are involved in the control of protein
synthesis. Identifiable genes are switched on and
particular proteins made at the beginning of new
developmental processes. Some of these
developmental switch genes, like the
Hox genes in fruit flies, worms,
fish and mammals, are very similar.
In evolutionary terms, they are highly conserved.
But switching on genes such as these cannot in
itself determine form, otherwise fruit flies would
not look different from us.
Many organisms live as free cells, including many
yeasts, bacteria and amoebas. Some form complex
mineral skeletons, as in diatoms and radiolarians,
spectacularly pictured in the nineteenth century
by Ernst Haeckel. Just making the right proteins
at the right times cannot explain the complex
skeletons of such structures without many other
forces coming into play, including the organizing
activity of cell membranes and microtubules. ...
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Morphic/morphic_intro.html
* K i n g o f t h e R o c k e t M e n
http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/132_parsons.shtml
"All stories are true,
every last one of them.
All myths, all legends,
all fables.
If you believe them true,
then they are true.
If you don't believe them,
then all that can be said
is that they are true
for someone else
--Dave Sim, 'Cerebus.'
http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/richard_metzger_anti-christ_superstar.html
h elmer | espeance
at slider's response . . .
care to give more info on that?
:)
h elmer | espeance
energy from water, and thought, reified in water crystals
back for another round on this thread, a new year's round
in article 450BA13E...@pharae.org, Azure at ta...@pharae.org wrote on
9/16/06 2:01 am:
> Kewl, glad to see this thread still running, but it kind of wandered.
>
> ThreeWolves wrote:
>
>> "slider" <sli...@anashram.com> wrote in message
>> news:450144ad$0$2686$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> So what happens when we step into the guift of toungs, where we step out of
>> language and step into pure understanding and communication?
>
h elmer | espeance
in article BWKIg.478039$Mn5.74262@pd7tw3no, ThreeWolves at
three...@shaw.ca wrote on 8/28/06 6:24 pm:
> ThreeWolves Wrote:
>
> Just some might
>>> have more of an educated guess than others. Closest I have got to an
>>> explanation is the unified field,
>
> Slider Wrote:
>
>> ### - there are no rational 'explanations' as such, nor will there be in the
>> future, quantum theory being really no more than a rational acknowledgement
>> of the existence of phenomena extending beyond the rational/logical per
>> se...
>>
>
> I hear a lot about formlessness. At first I would try to associate it with
> chaos, yet even that has a form and a pattern to it in the big picure. For
> me it is a feeling, yet cannot be put into thought that makes sense. Even in
> the dissorientation of feeling like my body is no longar physical with waves
> of something passing threw me, can this even be formlessness as I can sort
> of put it into words or try to rationalize it. Part of me goes, how could
> one step into formlessness yet still function here and where would be the
> purpose. Or is it a state of experience one experiences for a moment, then
> it is gone, and we return to the human condition with a new perspective. Is
> it the state of expansion where there is no separation, no security, only
> expansion. It felt as if the universe existed within me. Yet even this I try
> to rationalize. Try to understand it. I put myself into a protective buble
> so that I can feel that I at least have some kind of boundry to myself as
> this is known. To let go of the ratoinal mind, does this mean one must loose
> touch with this world and everyone in it, only to find another. Yet here we
> get locked up. HeHe. There must be some functionality, yet the mind must be
> able to let go. Is it the edge, a highwire, a freefall, or floating in a
> viod vacume, or none of the above and outside explination. I feel like I am
> just playing with myself trying to find a rational explination for something
> that is not rational. Yet my intent is giving away the addiction of the
> illusion I have been programed with, I suppose to change my point of
> reference.
>
i feel that your ultimate experience of formlessness must be
thoughtlessness, unawareness, disintegration, dis-cohesion, and the loss of
identity, and maybe it very well be - but we are assuming in our normal
bodily concept of space, we can entertain, that it doesn't end up that
perceived distance limits perceived self-awareness
yes, in human form to me it is an experience to bring back, perspective
no, well and yes, letting go of the rational is the answer, so that we
function in from a place of total integration, but we still come to a
sensibility, and in as much our world seems to (or does) change - it doesn't
matter how it actually comes about
for me i would say it's none of the above, but more like being a painter,
and having a playful and creative relationship with existence
I do this too, and am not so far from getting away from it, the bouncing
between a scientific rational viewpoint and a spacious mind, each time I
stay in the spacious longer, and it's better!
>> yet even with that I am faking it until
>>> one day I might make it. Hehe --- think happy thoughts!!!!!
>>
>> ### - the only thing that 'fakes' things is the rational-mind by
> continually
>> trying to explain the inexplicable merely as a justification of itself and
>> the way it wants/needs to function in order to survive as a functioning +
>> autonomous unit...
>>
>> e.g. from the rational pov everything perforce simply 'must' be rational
>> and/or conform to the criterion of reason per se else the subject matter
>> under examination will automatically be found to be false/rationally
> unsound
>> and dismissed...
>>
>> however, a simple process of observation quickly reveals that the 'nature'
>> of knowledge isn't confined merely to the realm of reason alone in the
> sense
>> that the 'flow' of knowledge & understanding doesn't actually 'cease' when
>> reason per se is suspended but instead actually expands inordinately
> beyond
>> what is then seen (with hindsight) as the deliberately rationally-limiting
>> factor of reason per se which is obviously employed to channel everything
>> conforming to its own criterion while at the same time totally ignoring
>> anything that doesn't (acts/is-employed as a perceptual filter iow)
>>
>
> --- To function without a belief system, only to use what is most
> appropriate for the moment. I think to myself is it possible to be this
> fluid. I am constantly going to newer deapths of where I am attached. Of
> where I am not willing to let go of what I think is. Then create the fight,
> the war againsed what is to hold onto what is known. Sometimes it is like I
> am fighting for my very life, for my very sanity. And all it is, is fear.
> That simple, yet I purposfully try to slit my own throat with it. HeHe. Even
> now, I am creating all this drama around "trying" to understand, yet isn't
> my understanding I have to let go of whith clarity being an enemy here. All
> I have to do is not take it so personally, yet in the deapth of my core that
> feels like betraying the very fabric of who I think I am. LOL It feels like
> I am killing myself and nurturing myself at the same time. Te have self care
> in the death, held safe in the womb of whakan. Even in the knowing of the
> ruthlessness of nature, yet at the same time, love beyond measure.
>
> ThreeWolves
>
it's interesting what slide says about "results" as a part of the belief
system coin - I think in physical reality we have certain root beliefs that
serve us, so it may be impossible to function without a belief system, but
we can notice our own beliefs, and refocus ourselves to ones that have a
more natural or beneficial feel and outcome for us
somebody told me something towards the end of the year (even in the case of
adventures in consciousness), trust in allah, but tether your camel - then
you'll come back to a unity of experience, without getting lost, ripped of,
etc. (of course a part of you is the camel here . . . )
what is "whakan"?
nature is aggressive, even violent, but not ruthless in my estimation, which
implies some kind of malevolent intent
we're mirrors for each other, let's keep trampling our fears
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> i think that's a line fr0m a song, but i don't get it, even when i look
> at slider's response . . .
>
> care to give more info on that?
Slider loves singing in the Rain, the rain makes the flowers grow.
Unless it gets to much.
Floods cause damage not assistance.
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> the other facet this post reminds me of is the research of emoto, and hado,
> energy from water, and thought, reified in water crystals
Which is where I started it from.
Not their research, I went farther back.
Hoar's, Frost Giants.
Those who believed the xtalization of the waters during freezing released energy
which some could use.
An action like Quartz.
Water is an ultimate conductor.
h elmer | espeance
enough yet for him
anyhow, the line came to me, "it's gonna be a bright, bright, sun shiny
day"
so sarcasm prevails
h elmer | espeance
emoto beleives (from a reference in shinto) that spirits of the
deceased are water vapor
conductively
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
> yes berry blue - i don't know where you dig your info
>
> emoto beleives (from a reference in shinto) that spirits of the
> deceased are water vapor
>
> conductively
>
D'Anu calls me jerbel and how the "Hind" and Tribes of Set, or the Ass
of a Man, became the Joke.
So I find far less anger in why people tend to insult me lately.
Especially when D'Anu is doing it in jest.
Water is the Tribes of the Yellow Witch, Bears of the Cave of the North
Wind.
Winter Hurricanes, or Si Pan Divine Winds.
Daughters of Nature, the River of Life.
Grew up in the real and teachings of the Ra or Ahura Mazda, the ones
"Born of Fire".
Dad was Fire House of Rama,
Mom was Water House of Lug (Luck/Loch).
Poseidon, Fu Xi Donn, Bears of Fu Xi or Xion.
Dagon (Docken) Fish Men, House of Nun,
the "Fish".
Ancient Bigots Term for Women.
Dagon, Fish Man, She Male.
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
> yeah, saw him the other day cursng the sky becuase ti hadn't rained
> enough yet for him
>
> anyhow, the line came to me, "it's gonna be a bright, bright, sun shiny
> day"
>
> so sarcasm prevails
>
Everyone doing Rain Dances, Snow Dances, then they wonder why the
weather sucks.
Dreaming of a White Christmas Huh!
Enjoy!
Somebody turn off the bubble machine.
h elmer | espeance
verbiage for "azure", it was not intended . . . only fun!
tribes of set? where can i get a quick rundown of that?
i'm familiar w/ ahura mazda, and i think that name is interestingly
japanese sounding
so we go from water, ice, to vapor, winds, fire, i see the connection
hydro-zoroasterically
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
> snap - if you're inferring i insulted you by the use of parallel
> verbiage for "azure", it was not intended . . . only fun!
I been being down trodden by the Sasser Bigots lately and I am full of
Cold Prickleys right now.
Hunters bring out the Beast in me.
>
> tribes of set? where can i get a quick rundown of that?
Snap back.
Egyptology, Set and his brother got into a fight, Pharaoh drew a line
Set got the Mountains and beyond from where he came, his brother got the
deserts and Africa.
From there it is into Scythian Legends.
Horse Man or Ass Man, Eponym.
>
> i'm familiar w/ ahura mazda, and i think that name is interestingly
> japanese sounding
Very Scythian, Ahura, Horea, Heirs.
Heirs of Ra, the Ma Gi Da, Heirs of the Mountain.
Numbers 13:
Poseidon is Fu Xi Donn, or the Bears Heirs of Fu Xi.
>
> so we go from water, ice, to vapor, winds, fire, i see the connection
>
> hydro-zoroasterically
Yeah, Fire and Ice.
Never looked at it before.
Fire Yes, Water No.
My Mother was the House of the River, my Father was the House of Fire.
The 2 Rivers.
River Jordan, Styx, is the Danube, Caucasus Mountains Noah's Cave, and
the Cave of Abraham and David.
The other River is the Yukon to ANWR the Plain where Adams Caves is
located.
>
>
h elmer | espeance
Azure wrote:
> h elmer | espeance wrote:
> >
> > snap - if you're inferring i insulted you by the use of parallel
> > verbiage for "azure", it was not intended . . . only fun!
>
> I been being down trodden by the Sasser Bigots lately and I am full of
> Cold Prickleys right now.
not sure i even want to know who they are . . . been there 8)
> Hunters bring out the Beast in me.
>
> > tribes of set? where can i get a quick rundown of that?
>
> Snap back.
>
> Egyptology, Set and his brother got into a fight, Pharaoh drew a line
> Set got the Mountains and beyond from where he came, his brother got the
> deserts and Africa.
> From there it is into Scythian Legends.
> Horse Man or Ass Man, Eponym.
>
nice, who was the brother?
> > i'm familiar w/ ahura mazda, and i think that name is interestingly
> > japanese sounding
>
> Very Scythian, Ahura, Horea, Heirs.
> Heirs of Ra, the Ma Gi Da, Heirs of the Mountain.
> Numbers 13:
> Poseidon is Fu Xi Donn, or the Bears Heirs of Fu Xi.
> >
> > so we go from water, ice, to vapor, winds, fire, i see the connection
> >
> > hydro-zoroasterically
>
> Yeah, Fire and Ice.
> Never looked at it before.
> Fire Yes, Water No.
> My Mother was the House of the River, my Father was the House of Fire.
> The 2 Rivers.
> River Jordan, Styx, is the Danube, Caucasus Mountains Noah's Cave, and
> the Cave of Abraham and David.
> The other River is the Yukon to ANWR the Plain where Adams Caves is
> located.
well, what i'm getting at is the circle-cycle too, the heat (fire),
melts ice; boils, evaporates, steams water to vapor, it condensates,
and returns, all the time falling back on the flame, either temporarily
extinguishing it, or cooling the coals, embers, lava-magma - it is kind
of symbolic of ego and consciousness meeting the void, at the point of
contact, it is utter life, and a "wresstling w/ god"
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> Azure wrote:
> > h elmer | espeance wrote:
> > >
> > > snap - if you're inferring i insulted you by the use of parallel
> > > verbiage for "azure", it was not intended . . . only fun!
> >
> > I been being down trodden by the Sasser Bigots lately and I am full of
> > Cold Prickleys right now.
> not sure i even want to know who they are . . . been there 8)
>
> > Hunters bring out the Beast in me.
> >
> > > tribes of set? where can i get a quick rundown of that?
> >
> > Snap back.
> >
> > Egyptology, Set and his brother got into a fight, Pharaoh drew a line
> > Set got the Mountains and beyond from where he came, his brother got the
> > deserts and Africa.
> > From there it is into Scythian Legends.
> > Horse Man or Ass Man, Eponym.
> >
> nice, who was the brother?
I "believe" it was Horous he was waging war with.
>
>
> > > i'm familiar w/ ahura mazda, and i think that name is interestingly
> > > japanese sounding
> >
> > Very Scythian, Ahura, Horea, Heirs.
> > Heirs of Ra, the Ma Gi Da, Heirs of the Mountain.
> > Numbers 13:
> > Poseidon is Fu Xi Donn, or the Bears Heirs of Fu Xi.
> > >
> > > so we go from water, ice, to vapor, winds, fire, i see the connection
> > >
> > > hydro-zoroasterically
> >
> > Yeah, Fire and Ice.
> > Never looked at it before.
> > Fire Yes, Water No.
> > My Mother was the House of the River, my Father was the House of Fire.
> > The 2 Rivers.
> > River Jordan, Styx, is the Danube, Caucasus Mountains Noah's Cave, and
> > the Cave of Abraham and David.
> > The other River is the Yukon to ANWR the Plain where Adams Caves is
> > located.
>
> well, what i'm getting at is the circle-cycle too, the heat (fire),
> melts ice; boils, evaporates, steams water to vapor, it condensates,
> and returns, all the time falling back on the flame, either temporarily
> extinguishing it, or cooling the coals, embers, lava-magma - it is kind
> of symbolic of ego and consciousness meeting the void, at the point of
> contact, it is utter life, and a "wresstling w/ god"
Sort of!
War between the Orange and the Green if you can follow.
Orange is the Magic of Fire.
Green is the Magic of Water.
Also Day and Night.
Sun Orange/Red, Moon Green.
Baghavadghita tells the tale in its beginning.
Aton and Amon
The Colors are Thermal Responses.
It is something which shows in the air around you.
Ice is Cold
Fire is Hot
Cold Prickleys, Warm Fuzzies.
Pastel Shades of Red and Green.
Some are Red/Orange and some are Green.
My Mother she while Orange wer actually the green.
And Me Father who while Green
is actually the orange of the sun it would seem.
Both Sidthes.
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
It is the energy released during the xtalization of the waters, there the
vapors roll, the electricity flows, the water is "Alive".
h elmer | espeance
about evaporating - what energy transference is attributed there? is
that also a form of "melting"?
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
> so melting means the substance has absorbed, and is conducting? what
> about evaporating - what energy transference is attributed there? is
> that also a form of "melting"?
Freeze Thaw, the Xtals appear the True Conductive Force.
Like Quartz.
Perhaps it is the Thermal Shock itself when the Frigid Absorbs the Heat
or the Heat becomes Frozen.
h elmer | espeance
On Jan 19, 12:24 am, Azure <t...@pharae.org> wrote:
> h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
>
>
> > so melting means the substance has absorbed, and is conducting? what
> > about evaporating - what energy transference is attributed there? is
> > that also a form of "melting"?Freeze Thaw, the Xtals appear the True Conductive Force.
Azure
h elmer | espeance wrote:
>
> transference, energy moves
Right, and Aural Energy around you is interrelated to that, your body is
a heat radiation, energy force which causes reactions around you.
It is at the flux where the force of the energy itself is generated and
transferable.
This from Caveman?
Frost Giants and Frozen Vapors?
Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> transference, energy moves
>
> On Jan 19, 12:24 am, Azure <t...@pharae.org> wrote:
> > h elmer | espeance wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > so melting means the substance has absorbed, and is conducting? what
> > > about evaporating - what energy transference is attributed there? is
> > > that also a form of "melting"?Freeze Thaw, the Xtals appear the True Conductive Force.
> > Like Quartz.
> > Perhaps it is the Thermal Shock itself when the Frigid Absorbs the Heat
> > or the Heat becomes Frozen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > well, what i'm getting at is the circle-cycle too, the heat (fire),
> > > > > melts ice; boils, evaporates, steams water to vapor, it condensates,
> > > > > and returns, all the time falling back on the flame, either temporarily
> > > > > extinguishing it, or cooling the coals, embers, lava-magma - it is kind
> > > > > of symbolic of ego and consciousness meeting the void, at the point of
> > > > > contact, it is utter life, and a "wresstling w/ god"
> >
> > > > It is the energy released during the xtalization of the waters, there the
> > > > vapors roll, the electricity flows, the water is "Alive".
Here is one for the topic for you.
Did you know there are 2 Light Wave Bands.
One Oxygen the other Nitrogen.
The Greens and Reds are the Oxy while the Hot Pinks and Purples are Nitrogen.
Did you know that either Monday or Tuesday Morning at like 4:20 am the United States did wage
war on Nature and Did there on, Launch Missiles at the Northern Lights.
Have you noticed the Purple Glare since.
Crudey almost phosphorescent Green at the ground with a Brilliant Purple Glare to the
Aiethiers.
Even been on tv, you can see the purple.
Purple is Justice/Judgment.
Zappo
:
: h elmer | espeance wrote:
:
:
::transference, energy moves
:
:
:
She's a Killer Queen
Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind
Anytime
Recommended at the price
Insatiable an appetite
Wanna try?
To avoid complications
She never kept the same address
In conversation
She spoke just like a baroness
Met a man from China
Went down to Geisha Minah
Then again incidentally
If you're that way inclined
Perfume came naturally from Paris
For cars she couldn't care less
Fastidious and precise
Chorus
Drop of a hat she's as willing as
Playful as a pussy cat
Then momentarily out of action
Temporarily out of gas
To absolutely drive you wild, wild
She's all out to get you
Chorus
Recommended at the price
Insatiable an appetite
Wanna try?
You wanna try
Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
Zappo wrote:
>
> She's a Killer Queen
>
Never thought about or saw that as prophetic statement before.
Especially one about me.
Zappo
HUMOR ALERT
Azure, Baroness of the North Pole wrote:
:
:
:
We emit-time in all directions.
The more power you gain the more
the more troublesome your own echo.
: Zappo wrote:
:
:
::She's a Killer Queen
I was joshing around.
Not turning Joshua into an ING
But simply pranking about.
I'll give you those tokens
from the casino if you go help
the russians build new stuff and
rebuild old stuff worth recreating.
Red John & Dick Dastardly
are team leaders until they are
ready to hold spirit elections in
their new realms & domains.
Its a good place to invest 32371-T
Because walking around with that
much loot draws soulflys with missions.
Mahmoud still won't have sex with his
72 anal virgin mullahs from para-dice
and their swiss bank account doweries.
The entire kingdom of islam rests on him
performing his sacred duties before the faithful.
He's a shy fellow.
-----------------------------------------------------
Each being that exists here exists
in many other physical locations.
I strive to avoid "Jury of Piers"
where beings here are censored by
majority vote of their peers as piers.
from other locales.
I encourage long distance
equitable transaction between
"In-Stances" of prime selfs.while
insuring against lose of their homeworld.
Each being has a home that is sanctuary.
This world is sponsored by
The Infinite Mystery and serves
6.8 billion purposes as of this day as today.
-----------------------------------------------------
Stay out of "energy double" trouble.
h elmer | espeance
elements, how does that effect things?
not sure what the rest of the post is getting at - cue up "outer
limits" music?
smiles
On Feb 17, 12:39 am, "Azure, Baroness of the North Pole"
slider
### - smile, although much calmed, azure's now come to/reached the
'conspiracy-layer'?
i mean, c'mon azure... while i respect your much improved demeanour, the
conspiracy-layer is just another man-made illusion created by people (for
various reasons) taking the occasional obvious contradiction/lie to the
extreme instead of recognising it for what it really is and pushing-up
through it like the layer of dirt it's been turned into/has become...
and because that's what young lotus shoots/blooms have to do ;)
"h elmer | espeance" <espe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171934126.5...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
h elmer | espeance wrote:
> no i didn't know about spectra analysis being done through different
> elements, how does that effect things?
Your joking right?
Don't do that to me.
Alchemy?
Aura's?
Ritual Candles?
Color has an immense teaching.
Red/Orange and Green?
Dusk and Dawn, the Point of Frost and Vaporization?
Take an Incandescent Light Bulb, a Black Light and a Good Red Heat Lamp, and stand under each.
Is there a difference?
>
>
> not sure what the rest of the post is getting at - cue up "outer
> limits" music?
>
> smiles
>
> On Feb 17, 12:39 am, "Azure, Baroness of the North Pole"
> <t...@pharae.org> wrote:
> > h elmer | espeance wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > transference, energy moves
The post is aimed at those who took my post about the Bubble and made it a Thread.
There has been a Marked Difference in the Horizons Colors since they launched Missiles at the
Aurora last week.
My understanding is it was not the Lights in General they wanted but the Red Ring, Proper.
Bullseye.
THOOM!
Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
slider wrote:
You are a PUTZ.
You deny the Tara Buddha, the concept of the Om.
You Follow the Fat Guy and have no concept of the Green Witch.
Buddha was a Woman.
You have no concept of the "Rainbow Bridge".
The Gates to Heaven, the Place where Life Began, the Cave of Adam and Eve,
Asgard what ever you call it, is a Myth to you.
Ellysium does not exist, there is no Garden.
Wanna Bet?
And it "IS UNDER ATTACK".
Nature has a Navel and like Bill Cosbey once sort of said " Don't play with your
navel, it might pop and then you'll go shooting all over the room".
I like the Legends of Hel any way, so who cares if the succeed in destroying the
Gates to Heaven.
Then I get to Become the True Osiris.
Last Time around and all, man broke Heaven so only Hel survived.
I Win.
Woof
Said, Cerberus
slider
just azure wrote...
> slider wrote:
>
>> ### - smile, although much calmed, azure's now come to/reached the
>> 'conspiracy-layer'?
>>
>> i mean, c'mon azure... while i respect your much improved demeanour, the
>> conspiracy-layer is just another man-made illusion created by people (for
>> various reasons) taking the occasional obvious contradiction/lie to the
>> extreme instead of recognising it for what it really is and pushing-up
>> through it like the layer of dirt it's been turned into/has become...
>>
>> and because that's what young lotus shoots/blooms have to do ;)
> You are a PUTZ.
> You deny the Tara Buddha, the concept of the Om.
> You Follow the Fat Guy and have no concept of the Green Witch.
### - and you just insult anyone who disagrees with you ya know, are you a
bully? + i have no concept because 'concepts' ain't where it's at azure
hehe... concepts are 2 for a penny :)
> Buddha was a Woman.
### - buddha was... is as far as i go... no need to add anything after that,
anything after that is mere concept and not reality per se but man-made
realities of which there is no end... unless you stop doing it :)
> You have no concept of the "Rainbow Bridge".
### - yes, i have no concept hehe.. i instead try to always deal with
reality and not man-made 'concepts' of reality... there IS a difference :)
> The Gates to Heaven, the Place where Life Began, the Cave of Adam and Eve,
> Asgard what ever you call it, is a Myth to you.
### - not myths but 'concepts' - a concept of reality is never the reality
itself, a concept is always second-hand :)
> Ellysium does not exist, there is no Garden.
### - according to that story man didn't even know he was naked let-alone in
a garden azure... iow only those who are not IN the garden think in terms of
gardens hehe:)
> Wanna Bet?
> And it "IS UNDER ATTACK".
### - you are the one doing all the attacking... you have monologue but not
dialogue
> Nature has a Navel and like Bill Cosbey once sort of said " Don't play
> with your
> navel, it might pop and then you'll go shooting all over the room".
### - lol :)
> I like the Legends of Hel any way,
### - personal preference is a sure block to reality and the way it really
is, iow learn to like what IS rather than what you can invent and/or
conceptually relate to
so who cares if the succeed in destroying the
> Gates to Heaven.
> Then I get to Become the True Osiris.
> Last Time around and all, man broke Heaven so only Hel survived.
> I Win.
> Woof
> Said, Cerberus
### - sheesh at all those crazy conceptual ideas... where's your inner
silence azure!
(clue: concepts, no matter how clever or complex, are just convoluted
thoughts and nothing more - so why trust them so implicitly? ;)
+ it's not your fault you were brought-up on a diet of conspiracy theory and
such like... but you 'can' recognise that layer for what it is (just a bunch
of emotive ideas) and wilfully push up through it/them
where you might just find there's some very nice people waiting to say
hello;)
ME-Again
rather interesting debate about our good'ol humanity, with a
definite taste of present.
I salute you Slider.
Of course you know me if you can write:
"### - i always assume people know everything until they show me they
don't?:)"
If I know just that; it's enough for me to suggest you reconsider.
I don't like top-posting, but I'll abide by your present standards.
Please, accept my words before you judge them; And I believe you can.
Nowhere Azure wrote about a 'conspiracy'.
It is your correct understanding that rationalize his purpose.
For in short the proper definition of a conspiracy is:
"is simply about a secret agreement between a number of parts."
We can agree, even if one not knows everything, that this is indeed
taking place at every levels of our societies.
What Azure is talking about in rather 'MYSTICAL' ways, and through
a formidable determination of inspiration is the actions of the
Government of his country.
<<Kodiak Launch Complex / Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation>>
I found a miscellaneous link to the effect that PURPLE is getting RED.
http://www.interceptorshield.com/
There is no illusion in that.
There is no lie in your own understanding it's about conspiracy.
(AKA: secret agreements, wanting to be kept as secret as possible.)
You Slider, suggest we take it as it 'Really is'...
But I wonder if you are as learned in 'reality' as you claim to be about illusions.
;)
You are obviously NOT Azure.
And Azure not you.
If you are closer to a Lotus, then you need that 'crap'/'fertilizer' as well
as the other 'Lotus' around.
In my eye.. Azure is certainly a Lotus !.. Even if he's not growing like the
standard common version, pale and white.
Diversity wants him to be colorful to Black.
He speeks the tongue of OGHM and seeks the understanding of origins.
There is no man-made illusion except yours Slider.
All is real; Names are incomplete but Understanding completes them.
When you reach the point where there is no boundary between the Lotus
and the 'contradictions' it stands upon; You can see as many colors as
Azure conveys.
You sate that you respect the much calmed Azure.
I suggest that you admire the storms coming as well.
-----
I agree with Azure.... What used to be phosphorescent Green is
turning to Purple....
-----
P.S. I still like you very much, Slider...That's why I care to share
a reflexion in the mirror. . :D
slider wrote in message ...
slider
"ME-Again" wrote...
> smile, although much quieter slider now come to gather in this
> rather interesting debate about our good'ol humanity, with a
> definite taste of present.
>
> I salute you Slider.
> Of course you know me if you can write:
> "### - i always assume people know everything until they show me they
> don't?:)"
> If I know just that; it's enough for me to suggest you reconsider.
>
> I don't like top-posting, but I'll abide by your present standards.
> Please, accept my words before you judge them; And I believe you can.
### - hey how's it going my friend, i'm terrible with names, but i never
forget a vibe hehe:)
>
> Nowhere Azure wrote about a 'conspiracy'.
> It is your correct understanding that rationalize his purpose.
> For in short the proper definition of a conspiracy is:
> "is simply about a secret agreement between a number of parts."
> We can agree, even if one not knows everything, that this is indeed
> taking place at every levels of our societies.
### - ah okay... i see what you're saying + this one is easy to deal with (+
which will enclose a small gift/token of my esteem;)
i.e. in the past azure has told me about her house and the 'old-boys' from
the 'naughty government' being unfair with the home owners over some sort of
pollution and/or lack of compensation for it to her etc etc (no need to go
into details) something that a very angry but otherwise helpless/impotent
azure has had to become a giant/monster in order to be able to deal with
hehe (temper temper azure:)
mad scientists shooting coloured dyes into the sky to tint the aurora purple
or whatever, potentially being just another example (to azure) of this
equally wanton carelessness of the rationalists, or better yet another
conspiracy by them to further damage the world without having to pay any
compensation etc etc, which before you know it has swelled into a whole
bunch of conspiracies, linked conspiracies, potential conspiracies,
conspiracies about conspiracies lol, which of course it's entirely possible
to become lost in...
and azure... who's probably feeling slightly bored these days... is (imho)
exhibiting that boredom by trifling with a layer of thought & thinking i've
called (in my post to her) the conspiracy layer
this 'conspiracy layer', if you examine it, being an area in awareness
comprised of a huge pile of highly emotionally charged thoughts and ideas
that have the capability of violently reawakening the whole thought process
which was otherwise attempting/learning to keep itself still... the
equivalent of which would be like throwing huge stones into an otherwise
nearly still/calmed lake of water (Splosh!!:)
>
> What Azure is talking about in rather 'MYSTICAL' ways, and through
> a formidable determination of inspiration is the actions of the
> Government of his country.
>
> <<Kodiak Launch Complex / Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation>>
> I found a miscellaneous link to the effect that PURPLE is getting RED.
> http://www.interceptorshield.com/
>
> There is no illusion in that.
> There is no lie in your own understanding it's about conspiracy.
> (AKA: secret agreements, wanting to be kept as secret as possible.)
### - for a semi-trained/disciplined mind... hitting that conspiracy layer
is to become involved (and/or reinvolved) in a whole bunch of powerfully
emotive ideas that have the potential to stir one's whole lake up into
another frenzy of waves making waves upon waves upon more waves until
stillness is no more/entirely forgotten/submerged/completely swamped from
view (smile:)
a more trained/experienced mind will treat the conspiracy layer (a group of
like-thoughts) with contempt and/or as the cheap wine it really is (not even
worth a second look kind of thing, piss hehe;)
>
> You Slider, suggest we take it as it 'Really is'...
> But I wonder if you are as learned in 'reality' as you claim to be about
> illusions.
> ;)
### - very good hehehe :)
> You are obviously NOT Azure.
> And Azure not you.
### - true, but are we not also all buddha? :)
> If you are closer to a Lotus, then you need that 'crap'/'fertilizer' as
> well
> as the other 'Lotus' around.
### - yes it's there, endless amounts of it... but the point is to 'rise
above' it :)
>
> In my eye.. Azure is certainly a Lotus !.. Even if he's not growing like
> the
> standard common version, pale and white.
### - agreed everyone is buddha, it's in us all, no exceptions :)
> Diversity wants him to be colorful to Black.
> He speeks the tongue of OGHM and seeks the understanding of origins.
### - azure indeed wants to be a special case, but she'll just have to get
used to the idea of being just like everyone else, we're all in the same
boat ya know, no exceptions... it's also easier that way for all concerned,
especially azure who needs to lighten-up a little (giants get dreadfully
tense ya know:)
>
> There is no man-made illusion except yours Slider.
> All is real; Names are incomplete but Understanding completes them.
### - take away all the names and a different understanding arises: an
understanding that gradually understands not to try to understand everything
(smile + hehehe:)
besides... it's a bit late to be looking for origins... i mean we're here
now, the seed has already been planted so to speak, there's nothing anyone
can do about it, we have to deal with this, today, right now, and to be
scooting-off on a search for origins is to be having a day-off from dealing
with ourselves in the now which is the only reality that exists and which
remains virtually unexplored because everyone else is scooting about
figuring out this, that and the other rather than living in the moment, the
now... dreams instead of reality, ideas and concepts instead of direct
experience, rationality is a form of 'backing-away' from life:)
>
> When you reach the point where there is no boundary between the Lotus
> and the 'contradictions' it stands upon; You can see as many colors as
> Azure conveys.
### - i think it's all black & white to azure...
you have to rise above the cess pool to experience colour ;)
>
> You sate that you respect the much calmed Azure.
> I suggest that you admire the storms coming as well.
### - there is also a calm 'after' a storm... a moment of respite, a chance
to gather your wits and/or to review your experiences... storms perforce
will come again, next time you might even sail right over them, possibly
even learn to enjoy them eventually, the tide comes in and the tide goes
out, in the end it doesn't matter, in or out, night or day, it's all the
same... it's more easy to walk in a straight line now heh:)
>
> -----
> I agree with Azure.... What used to be phosphorescent Green is
> turning to Purple....
> -----
### - shhh be still, one is not supposed to let anything disturb one's
meditation! (smile;)
>
> P.S. I still like you very much, Slider...That's why I care to share
> a reflexion in the mirror. . :D
### - (smile ;)