Notes on DL
TulgeyWood
* Fantasyland looks to have had some painting done! Gepetto's sign is fixed.
Yay!
* New Frontierland/Plaza gardens complex looks very nice from what's in view.
* Grand Californian, World of Disney, Downtown Disney and the Plaza area are
looking very inviting and attractive.
* New Disneyland Hotel color is okay.
* Entrance to DCA is a miracle of poor planning. The intended postcard,
photo-op view is hampered not only by the uglyiest of non-art mural designs,
but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with the Hilton and
powerlines, rendering the whole picture ineffective. Knowing those things were
not going anywhere, how did they place the focal point of the entrance where it
is? Urban intrusion or not, this view can't be what they intended.
Jon Nadelberg
>
> * Fantasyland looks to have had some painting done! Gepetto's sign is fixed.
> Yay!
>
> * New Frontierland/Plaza gardens complex looks very nice from what's in view.
>
> * Grand Californian, World of Disney, Downtown Disney and the Plaza area are
> looking very inviting and attractive.
>
Very nice to hear you say positive things. It gives more credence to
your negative comments.
> * New Disneyland Hotel color is okay.
>
From the photos, it doesn't look like it's even been painted.
> * Entrance to DCA is a miracle of poor planning. The intended postcard,
> photo-op view is hampered not only by the uglyiest of non-art mural designs,
> but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with the Hilton and
> powerlines, rendering the whole picture ineffective. Knowing those things were
> not going anywhere, how did they place the focal point of the entrance where it
> is? Urban intrusion or not, this view can't be what they intended.
Well, it's a mosaic. Apparently, they hired some Bulgarian artist to
specially create this thing out of ceramic tile. This is rumor, though.
I don't see why you criticize it so much. It's not that bad. The thing
that loks bad in the entrance is the droopy Golden Gate Bridge. The sun
icon in the back is kind of neat looking. I like how it's framed. Not
much can be done about the Hilton, unless they bought it and ripped it
down.
--
See 1970s Disneyland!
http://home.pacbell.net/jonvn
Mandelbrot
>* Entrance to DCA is a miracle of poor planning. The intended postcard,
>photo-op view is hampered not only by the uglyiest of non-art mural designs,
>but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with the Hilton and
>powerlines, rendering the whole picture ineffective.
This simply not true if you are at ground level. From the Monorail, yes, you
can see the Hilton and the powerlines. But not from ground level. Glad to see
you still hate the mural.
>Knowing those things were
>not going anywhere, how did they place the focal point of the entrance where
>it
>is? Urban intrusion or not, this view can't be what they intended.
Not to mention the fact that there is this ugly eight foot tall construction
wall blocking everything. I mean, what the hell were they thinking?
Mandelbrot
Mr. Liver
"Mandelbrot" <apsi...@aol.communism> wrote
>>* Entrance to DCA is a miracle of poor planning.
>>The intended postcard, photo-op view is hampered
>>not only by the uglyiest of non-art mural designs,
>>but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with
>>the Hilton and powerlines, rendering the whole
>>picture ineffective.
>This simply not true if you are at ground level. From
>the Monorail, yes, you can see the Hilton and the
>powerlines. But not from ground level.
This simply isn't true either. It really depends on how close you are to
the entrance. From inside Disneyland it's real easy to see the convention
center and Hilton over the park.
>Glad to see you still hate the mural.
It's an ugly mural. It would have looked much better had they just painted
it to look like real mountains. Of course it would have looked much much
better had they just used the rock effect they used for Tomorrowland's
entrance. But what can you do.
>Not to mention the fact that there is this
>ugly eight foot tall construction wall
>blocking everything. I mean, what the
>hell were they thinking?
Too bad they couldn't afford any trees.
--
Mr. Liver
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.measureo.com
On AIM: Mr Liver - ICQ: 1421609
"Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise."
Mandelbrot
>>This simply not true if you are at ground level. From
>>the Monorail, yes, you can see the Hilton and the
>>powerlines. But not from ground level.
>
>This simply isn't true either. It really depends on how close you are to
>the entrance. From inside Disneyland it's real easy to see the convention
>center and Hilton over the park.
>
From where exactly? I know they were very visible from the Skyway and the
Rocket Jets both those are long gone. Wait. Lemme guess: the crest of the
third lift on Thunder Mountain, the loading platform of the Main Street
Disneyland Railroad station, and....hmm...where else? The Monorail, obviously,
but that's only once you are outside the park. I guess if you look back
through the entrance tunnels you could spot the Hilton. But why would you look
for that?
>It's an ugly mural. It would have looked much better had they just painted
>it to look like real mountains. Of course it would have looked much much
>better had they just used the rock effect they used for Tomorrowland's
>entrance. But what can you do.
I really liked the look of the entrance in the earliest concept artwork for
DCA. It was simply two large tile-roofed Spanish-style buildings. Simple but
very California. I actually like the tile murals but I don't think they
represent the best idea that could have been come up with.
>>Not to mention the fact that there is this
>>ugly eight foot tall construction wall
>>blocking everything. I mean, what the
>>hell were they thinking?
>
>Too bad they couldn't afford any trees.
They would have obstructed the "postcard" view. It does seem kind of weird that
there will be such a huge plain open area between the parks but that may serve
to ease the potential congestion in that area. That said, however, I wish the
big beautiful fountain made the cut.
Mandelbrot
Jon Nadelberg
> >Too bad they couldn't afford any trees.
>
> They would have obstructed the "postcard" view. It does seem kind of weird that
> there will be such a huge plain open area between the parks but that may serve
> to ease the potential congestion in that area. That said, however, I wish the
> big beautiful fountain made the cut.
>
Maybe the fountain would have clogged the area, or they didn't want
another Cosmic Waves going on in the Esplanade.
Jon Nadelberg
"Mr. Liver" wrote:
>
> "Mandelbrot" <apsi...@aol.communism> wrote
> >Glad to see you still hate the mural.
>
> It's an ugly mural.
It's a mosaic.
Tjames Madison
>
>"Mandelbrot" <apsi...@aol.communism> wrote
>
>>>* Entrance to DCA is a miracle of poor planning.
>>>The intended postcard, photo-op view is hampered
>>>not only by the uglyiest of non-art mural designs,
>>>but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with
>>>the Hilton and powerlines, rendering the whole
>>>picture ineffective.
>
>>This simply not true if you are at ground level. From
>>the Monorail, yes, you can see the Hilton and the
>>powerlines. But not from ground level.
>
>This simply isn't true either. It really depends on how close you are to
>the entrance. From inside Disneyland it's real easy to see the convention
>center and Hilton over the park.
You can see them from inside Disneyland?!? I guess some hack must have
designed that place.
>>Glad to see you still hate the mural.
>
>It's an ugly mural.
Looks nicer than Mary Blair's stuff to me.
RoR-Alucard | http://www.pigdog.org
~Yo Soy Un Pistolero~
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>designed that place.
i heard it was budget cuts ;)
.....BhRiGGa BLaZiNi.....
~El Blazini Familia~
"A empire thats second to none"
Jon Nadelberg
I don't have the names yet, but it was apparently done by a Bulgarian
artist. The size of this mosaic is pretty impressive, and if that's all
done with individually crafted tiles, it's quite an accomplishment.
TulgeyWood
can see the Hilton and the powerlines. But not from ground level. <<
My observation was not made from the monorail, but from ground level, dead
center, peeking through the construction windows provided to showcase this
monstrosity.
TulgeyWood
DCA. It was simply two large tile-roofed Spanish-style buildings. Simple but
very California. <<
Good idea!
TulgeyWood
>>It's a mosaic.<<
It's an ugly mosiac.
TulgeyWood
artist. <<
Sort of like shooting your western in Italy. Do we not have any Californian
Artists?
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
and ur a ugly homo
.....BhRiGGa BLaZiNi.....
"OkAy, Hot HOv', tOo hOt tO hOld,LaDies loVe Me loNg tiMe liKe 2pAc's
sOul"--JiGGa
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>Good idea!
you know damn well if they went through wtih that idea you'd have something
bad to say bout it,.nothing makes you happy.
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>center, peeking through the construction windows provided to showcase this
>monstrosity.
the park doesnt even open for another 3/4 months....im pretty positive they
will plant trees or do something to obscure the view of the hilton
etc......dont be so quick to say they "WILL NEVER " cuz you always end up
biting ur tongue =)
Jon Nadelberg
You might think so, but at least we're using the right word.
I haven't seen it up close. From the photos, it looks to be as good or
better than other mosaic type works in the area. If you want to see a
couple of others, I suggest going to Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills, which
has one about American History, or go to Mt. Sinai Memorial Park next
door, which has one about the history of Jews in America. Both are
right near the Disney Studio. In fact, you can go out to the front gate
of the studio, look across the street to St. Joseph's, turn left, and
see Forest Lawn.
Although it is a slightly different style, the mosaic at DCA compares
favorably to those.
Here's a web page from Forest Lawn on their Hollywood Hills mosaic:
http://www.forestlawn.com/parks/hh_birth_liberty.html
Here is a photo of the mosaic from Mt. Sinai, which has a web page at
http://www.mt-sinai.com/index.html
http://www.mt-sinai.com/images/photos/image_home.gif
Maybe you just don't like mosaics.
Jon Nadelberg
Maybe we don't who can do this sort of thing.
Mandelbrot
>>>I don't have the names yet, but it was apparently done by a Bulgarian
>artist. <<
>
>Sort of like shooting your western in Italy.
MMMmmmm......spaghetti.
>Do we not have any Californian
>Artists?
I know of no art school that teaches the art of the mosaic. Perhaps Rhode
Island School of Design, but I doubt it. I think mosaic artists would have a
tough time making a living and are hence a rare breed. Even in California.
Mandelbrot
The Doctor
Or filming outspace movies on earth. Cheap bastards, Walt would have
never done that.
The Doctor
"And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean
all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when
you're good and crazy, oooh oooh oooh, the sky is the
limit!"-The Tick
Anonymous Remailer
>
> tulgeywood wrote:
>
> >>>I don't have the names yet, but it was apparently done by a Bulgarian
> >artist. <<
> >
> >Sort of like shooting your western in Italy.
>
>
> >Do we not have any Californian
> >Artists?
>
> Island School of Design, but I doubt it. I think mosaic artists would have a
> tough time making a living and are hence a rare breed. Even in California.
>
> Mandelbrot
----
Then, how Californian is the mural then? Maybe they should have used a
more Californian kind of medium?
CS
--
ExoNet Anonymous Remailer <http://www.exonet.org/remailer/>
TulgeyWood
Been there to visit Walt. Didn't notice any murals. I have seen more than a
few in my time though. I love the Eyvind Earle murals on the old Home Savings
buildings!!!
TulgeyWood
Not really. As I said, I think the Grand Californian and Downtown Disney are
looking nice. The suggested DCA entrance approach that featured mission style
buildings would likely have complimented the attractive DTD area around it.
Again, a good idea.
TulgeyWood
will plant trees or do something to obscure the view of the hilton
etc......dont be so quick to say they "WILL NEVER " cuz you always end up
biting ur tongue =)<<
I hope they do, 'cause its ugly as is. Ask your bosses to move on it!
TulgeyWood
never done that.<<
You right. He would have used a real artist like Mary Blair, Eyvind Earle or
Claude Coats to design the thing. I'm sure there are modern equivalents out
there.
TulgeyWood
Looks like they don't teach this in Bulgaria either...
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>buildings would likely have complimented the attractive DTD area around it.
>Again, a good idea.
bad idea,it would belnded it TOO much to DtD
Jon Nadelberg
>
> >>I suggest going to Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills<<
>
> Been there to visit Walt. Didn't notice any murals.
That's because it is a mosaic.
Jon Nadelberg
I don't think these people did this sort of thing. Looks like a pretty
specialized type of work.
Jon Nadelberg
>
> TulgeyWood wrote:
> >
> > >>I suggest going to Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills<<
> >
> > Been there to visit Walt. Didn't notice any murals.
>
> That's because it is a mosaic.
>
Oh, and you probably didn't find Walt Disney there, either. He's not at
that cemetery.
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>that cemetery.
>
>
I heard walt was back east somewhere,but I could be wrong.
Luv you long time,
.....BhRiGGa BLaZiNi.....
The Doctor
Wait a second, you don't even know the artist who is making the
mosaic. How do you this person isn't a "Real" artist? I also fail to
see why you would have to have a Californian artist design the mosaic.
Heck, a foreign artist would probably do a better job visualizing the
"Spirit" of California, as they wouldn't have their vision polluted by
living in the state all of their life.
Also, congrats on clipping my post to make my quote appear out of
context. You should be a politician.
Mandelbrot
>> The suggested DCA entrance approach that featured mission style
>>buildings would likely have complimented the attractive DTD area around it.
>>Again, a good idea.
>
> bad idea,it would belnded it TOO much to DtD
Actually, there are no buildings in DTD in that style. But it would have been
a smoother transition between DTD and the entrances to both parks. As it is
now, DCA's entrance is quite eye catching and some would say that detracts from
the surroundings. If I can find a link to that conceptual artwork showing the
original concept for DCA's entrance I will post it here.
Mandelbrot
Jon Nadelberg
>
> >Oh, and you probably didn't find Walt Disney there, either. He's not at
> >that cemetery.
> >
> >
He's in Forest Lawn, Glendale. That is a different cemetery than Forest
Lawn, Hollywood Hills. I think Roy Disney is in Hollywood Hills.
Mandelbrot
>It's specialized and labor intensive. I, personally, don't think anybody
>should use it unless the subject is timeless and the structure is going
>to be around a long, long time.
>
>If the subject isn't timeless it's a victim to changes in style. The
>image you thought was really cute suddenly becomes dated (with little
>chance that the dated subject will shift back into style.
>
>If the structure is "temporary" then you've spent a lot of money and
>time on something that will eventually be discarded. And the
>restoration costs may exceed any perceived benefit of moving the
>exhibition and/or restoring it.
>
The Mary Blair murals in Tomorrowland are the perfect example of this. Whether
she was a great artist or not, her style was very very '60's and definitely not
timeless. Of her two mosaics, one was destroyed, and one remains but is badly
damaged. I don't think any piece of visual art for a theme park, be it paint,
or tile mosaic, or whatever, is meant to be an enduring artistic masterpeice to
be preserved for generations.
Mandelbrot
Mandelbrot
> >>I know of no art school that teaches the art of the mosaic. <<
>
>Looks like they don't teach this in Bulgaria either...
>
As far as mosaics go, this one (or two actually) really does look well
thought-out and well executed. It is unquestionably more complex and more
interesting than the TL Mary Blair murals.
Mandelbrot
Jon Nadelberg
It's commercial art, really. It's not the mona lisa.
Jon Nadelberg
The Blair murals (which truly were ugly) where just painted square
ceramics. These tiles are all different shapes, and fit together like a
giant jigsaw puzzle. It's an extremely more complex and challenging
process.
Mandelbrot
>>Oh, and you probably didn't find Walt Disney there, either. He's not at
>>that cemetery.
>>
>>
>
> I heard walt was back east somewhere,but I could be wrong.
He is indeed East of Hollywood Hills but not far. His remains are at Forest
Lawn in Glendale.
Mandelbrot
Jon Nadelberg
TulgeyWood
don't go to the Hollywood Hills (Warner Bros.) FL much.
TulgeyWood
ceramics. These tiles are all different shapes, and fit together like a
giant jigsaw puzzle. It's an extremely more complex and challenging
process.<<
The Blair murals featured individually fired, highly detailed tiles. At least
use some truth in your fucked-up spin. Mary's murals were solid design work,
the DCA mural looks like it came from the art park in Santa Barbara and junior
spilled Tang on it on the way home (and colored some redwoods on it with his
Crayolas).
Annual Passholder
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa wrote:
> >It's an ugly mosiac.
>
> and ur a ugly homo
> .....
and ur a hateful littleman and you suck!
AP
ooozing Xmas oooze
TulgeyWood
Actauly, I'm kinda cute...
Jon Nadelberg
>
> In article <3A00F623...@pacbell.net>, Jon Nadelberg> I'm taking a shot here and saying that the Mona Lisa was commercial art.
>
http://www.kausal.com/leonardo/leonardo_mona_lisa.shtml
Jon Nadelberg
>
> >>The Blair murals (which truly were ugly) where just painted square
> ceramics. These tiles are all different shapes, and fit together like a
> giant jigsaw puzzle. It's an extremely more complex and challenging
> process.<<
>
> The Blair murals featured individually fired, highly detailed tiles.
I know exactly what they were. They were tiles that were painted then
kilned. It's a much simpler process than what is being put in the DCA
entraceway. It's so simple, I had it done for tiles in my kitchen.
Anyone can do it who can paint.
> At least
> use some truth in your fucked-up spin.
What I said was the EXACT truth. No spin, and certainly not fucked up.
Sorry.
> Mary's murals were solid design work,
> the DCA mural looks like it came from the art park in Santa Barbara and junior
> spilled Tang on it on the way home (and colored some redwoods on it with his
> Crayolas).
The Tomorrowland Blair murals were paintings done on tile which were
then baked by kiln into place. There is nothing wrong with this type of
thing, but it is not the same thing as what is going into the front of
DCA at all.
What's going into the front of DCA is a mosaic of tiles of individuals
colors that create the whole image. You may like or dislike the
subject, but it's a very impressive piece of art being put out in front
of the place.
If you think it is so simple, I suggest taking a 3x3 foot piece of
plywood, and creating a tile mosaic that looks like something on it.
Report back your results.
Jon Nadelberg
>
> In article <3A0183E2...@pacbell.net>, Jon Nadelberg
> <jo...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> I'm taking a shot here and saying that the Mona Lisa was commercial art.
> >>
> >
> >http://www.kausal.com/leonardo/leonardo_mona_lisa.shtml
>
>
> I think I see where you're going with that. I thought it was
> "commercial" because it was commissioned portaiture. But I can see where
> you might mean it's NOT commercial because it's not meant as an
> advertisement.
>
> I'll go with you on this one, but I think it could go either way in
> broad terms.
It could. And commercial art CAN rise to the level of great art. It
has to have a timeless quality that speaks to the emotions of a great
many people. This mosaic might rise to that level. A lot of it depends
on people's reaction to it once it is done. My guess is though that
people will not likely stare at it and find great emotional feelings or
substance in it. It's supposed to be a postcard, after all. But you
never know.
To me, commercial art is stuff you might see adorning a bank wall or
something. Something nice to keep the wall from looking blank.
Something without deeper emotional impact other than "that looks nice"
or "that looks ugly."
For this to be high art for me, when I see it, it would have to be more
than just a base presentation of different aspects of California. It
would need to evoke a feeling, even if of awe, and give a sense of
itself other than what it is on its face portraying.
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>
hateful? nah,just honest =)
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
is that what ur mom tells you?
Matt
Do you dislike the mosiacs in WDW, namely inside Cinderella's castle? I
think you just don't like Mosiacs. Mary Blair was a hack corporate
artist.
Matt
--
Have a problem with what I am saying?
Please visit: http://www.kungaloosh.com/matt.asp
All you need to do is fill out the complaint form.
EnergiFlow
>* Grand Californian, World of Disney, Downtown Disney and the Plaza area are
>looking very inviting and attractive.
I think the city deserves kudos too for initiating long overdue improvements to
the DL area. It's such a relief to see the surrounding streets in better shape,
devoid of the absurd ugliness of the past. Ratty wood telephone poles and
hideous "hicktown" motel/commercial signs have been eliminated, and
respectable, even lavish, landscaping has finally been installed (I wonder,
however, whether city planners realize the huge thicket of smaller trees
they've planted in some areas will grow up to be a mass of trunks and
concrete-lifting roots). DTD, the new hotel and all the civic improvements can
make up for any shortcomings of DCA.
>* New Disneyland Hotel color is okay.
However, what a shame if the garish 1950s rooftop sign on the DL Hotel isn't
scrapped. I was hoping also that the renovation would be more elaborate. The
former Pacific, now DCA Hotel, at least got a more substantive exterior
facelift.
>but the horizon behing the sun icon is cluttered with the Hilton and
>powerlines, rendering the whole picture ineffective.
If DCA's horizon, as seen from ground level, includes the presence of intrusive
buildings and those dreary power lines and steel poles along Katella and
Harbor, it will be interesting what perceptions visitors, media types and
reporters have of this. The unfortunate fact is that Disney's biggest problem
in Calif remains their inability to own more land around the DL resort.
Janet H.
MurDaH MaCK BhRiGGa
>
eeeeeeeeewww
.....BhRiGGa BLaZiNi.....
we murdaraz baby
TulgeyWood
TulgeyWood
think you just don't like Mosiacs.
I love good mosiacs, Althea Redmond's Cinderella mosiacs are lovely, as is
Mary's remaining mosiac mural in the Contemporary. As previously posted, I'm a
fan of Eyvind Earle's Home Savings mosiacs as well.
>>Mary Blair was a hack corporate
artist.<<
Three Caballeros
Song of the South
Once Upon a Wintertime
Cinderella
Legend of Sleepy Hollow
Johnny Appleseed
Alice in Wonderland
Peter Pan
It's a Small World
...I'm sure your legacy will last as long. If you die tomorrow, no one will
ever know you were here. We will always be looking at Mary's work, whether you
like it or not.
TulgeyWood
scrapped. <<
That sign is the only charming thing left in the Disneyland Hotel. It is an
icon.
Matt
TulgeyWood wrote:
>
> Do you dislike the mosiacs in WDW, namely inside Cinderella's castle? I
> think you just don't like Mosiacs.
>
> I love good mosiacs, Althea Redmond's Cinderella mosiacs are lovely, as is
> Mary's remaining mosiac mural in the Contemporary. As previously posted, I'm a
> fan of Eyvind Earle's Home Savings mosiacs as well.
Well that is just great. I don't think that you could call the thing in
the Contemp a mosiac.
>
> >>Mary Blair was a hack corporate
> artist.<<
>
> Three Caballeros
> Song of the South
> Once Upon a Wintertime
> Cinderella
> Legend of Sleepy Hollow
> Johnny Appleseed
> Alice in Wonderland
> Peter Pan
> It's a Small World
> ...I'm sure your legacy will last as long. If you die tomorrow, no one will
> ever know you were here. We will always be looking at Mary's work, whether you
> like it or not.
You know how many OTHER PEOPLE worked on those movies? Are you going to
discount the work of the thousands of folks that brought those movies to
life? Marc Davis, Ward Kimball, Ollie Johnston....? I find this to be
absolutely heinous on your part. You should be ashamed. And as far as
people remembering me....What about you? You are just some wacked out
fruitcake that posts inane shit about mosiacs sucking.
EnergiFlow
>That sign is the only charming thing left in the Disneyland Hotel. It is an
>icon.
Everyone's perceptions vary so greatly. Makes me think of that lyric, You say
po-ta-tah, I say po-ta-to. While you're bothered by the new murals, I find them
okay to so-so. If anything, I have more problems with the palm trees scattered
throughout the entryway. As currently arranged and installed, they seem
intrusive and meager. And then, of course, there's things like Mulholland
Madness. Personally, I think using the word "charming" and DL Hotel together is
an oxymoron. Considering the elegance of many of the hotels in WDW and the new
hotel next to DCA, the DL Hotel is a drab 1950s building, unimpressive enough
even without its oversized east-facing roofline sign.
Janet H.
TulgeyWood
discount the work of the thousands of folks that brought those movies to
life? <<
I am talking only about the color and design aspects attributable to Mary
Blair.
Jon Nadelberg
>
> tulge...@aol.com (TulgeyWood) wrote:
>
> >That sign is the only charming thing left in the Disneyland Hotel. It is an
> >icon.
>
> po-ta-tah, I say po-ta-to. While you're bothered by the new murals, I find them
> okay to so-so. If anything, I have more problems with the palm trees scattered
> throughout the entryway. As currently arranged and installed, they seem
> intrusive and meager. And then, of course, there's things like Mulholland
> Madness. Personally, I think using the word "charming" and DL Hotel together is
> an oxymoron. Considering the elegance of many of the hotels in WDW and the new
> hotel next to DCA, the DL Hotel is a drab 1950s building, unimpressive enough
> even without its oversized east-facing roofline sign.
Yeah, I think the Disneyland Hotel is a real throwback to a different
era, and not a particularly good one. I much prefer the Grand
Californian style of hotel to the souless set of concrete boxes that
make up the Disneyland Hotel. At least they tried to do something nice
with the Paradise Pier Hotel, but I think these places should all be
detonated and rebuilt.
I also think that right now, Mullhulland Madness is the least appealing
looking thing in the park, but we're only seeing it from the exterior.
Once inside, it'll be interesting to see if it looks any better.
Matt
TulgeyWood wrote:
>
> >>You know how many OTHER PEOPLE worked on those movies? Are you going to
> discount the work of the thousands of folks that brought those movies to
> life? <<
>
> I am talking only about the color and design aspects attributable to Mary
> Blair.
Great, I think they weren't as nice as others work.
TulgeyWood
I think Mary Blair was a goddess of color and design. Even as a child, before
I knew who she was, I responded specifically and uniquely to her work. I get a
great emotional boost from her color sensibilty in particular, and from her
fascinating graphics sensibility. She and Eyvind Earle are two of the Disney
Studio artists whose work still fascinates when removed from the context of the
film. We are lucky they had such a great commercial showcase for their talents
in Walt's features and parks.
Matt
Aside from Small World and a few murals I can't remember one thing she
did. Ward Kimball was a better artist in my book. Let's not forget Ken
Anderson.
Jon Nadelberg
>
> TulgeyWood wrote:
> >
> > >>Great, I think they weren't as nice as others work. <<
> >
> > I think Mary Blair was a goddess of color and design. Even as a child, before
> > I knew who she was, I responded specifically and uniquely to her work. I get a
> > great emotional boost from her color sensibilty in particular, and from her
> > fascinating graphics sensibility. She and Eyvind Earle are two of the Disney
> > Studio artists whose work still fascinates when removed from the context of the
> > film. We are lucky they had such a great commercial showcase for their talents
> > in Walt's features and parks.
>
> Aside from Small World and a few murals I can't remember one thing she
> did. Ward Kimball was a better artist in my book. Let's not forget Ken
> Anderson.
Most of Mary Blair's work never made it to the screen. Her 2D style of
drawing made it very difficult for animators to adapt to. Because of
this, her work mostly consisted of color stylings for the animated
features. That's kind of why you don't remember a lot of work by her.
Her art was very difficult to translate into animation.
She did artwork for several children's books, but quit the studio right
before Peter Pan was released. In that film, she was responsible again
for the color rendering. That is her main legacy with regards to the
animated features.
TulgeyWood
drawing made it very difficult for animators to adapt to. Because of
this, her work mostly consisted of color stylings for the animated
features. That's kind of why you don't remember a lot of work by her.
Her art was very difficult to translate into animation.<<
As an Art Director/Color Stylist, Mary's job was to influence and create a
direction for the overall look of the film. Once Upon a Wintertime, Johnny
Appleseed, Blame it on the Samba, Three Caballeros, Legend of Sleepy Hollow,
Cinderella, Song of the South, Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland all contain
design elements heavily adapted from Mary's personal style as well being guided
by her color sensibilty. Walt was frustrated that her style was watered down
so much from the inspirational art, and this is why he empowered Eyvind Earle
for "Sleeping Beauty".
TulgeyWood
Anderson.<<
They were genius, but character artists - - a different skill.
TulgeyWood
did. <<
Like most executive types, you probably haven't seen the films.
Mandelbrot
>As an Art Director/Color Stylist, Mary's job was to influence and create a
>direction for the overall look of the film.
An art director/color stylist will influence the look of a film, but the
production designer really determines the look of the film.
> Once Upon a Wintertime, Johnny
>Appleseed, Blame it on the Samba, Three Caballeros, Legend of Sleepy Hollow,
>Cinderella, Song of the South, Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland all contain
>design elements heavily adapted from Mary's personal style as well being
>guided
>by her color sensibilty. Walt was frustrated that her style was watered down
>so much from the inspirational art, and this is why he empowered Eyvind Earle
>for "Sleeping Beauty".
>
>
Walt was the boss. He could have just as easily likewise empowered Mary Blair,
but didn't. I'm sure there was a reason for that.
Mandelbrot
"You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry....
You will some day." --Lester Burnham
MousePlanetFab
>did.
The whole "look" of the animated sections of Song of the South was hers. She
did initial character design for Cinderella, and tons of other stuff.
Fab
The Fabulous Disney Babe at MousePlanet
http://www.mouseplanet.com
The Magic....Made Easy!
Davko58
The murals were hideous. The ones there now are also hideous.
IASW's look repulsed me even as a child. I hated the exposed parts of
the dolls, the cabbage patch like look of the dolls, and the whole
non-Disney appearance of the entire attraction. The colors were also
annoying. I thought (and still think) it looked cheap and tacky.
Davko58
Jon Nadelberg
TulgeyWood wrote:
>
> >>Most of Mary Blair's work never made it to the screen. Her 2D style of
> drawing made it very difficult for animators to adapt to. Because of
> this, her work mostly consisted of color stylings for the animated
> features. That's kind of why you don't remember a lot of work by her.
> Her art was very difficult to translate into animation.<<
>
> As an Art Director/Color Stylist, Mary's job was to influence and create a
> direction for the overall look of the film.
Well, actually, most of her work was not used in this manner. She
chiefly did colors, which she did extremely well. Most of her character
work was too difficult to translate to animation.
> Once Upon a Wintertime, Johnny
> Appleseed, Blame it on the Samba, Three Caballeros, Legend of Sleepy Hollow,
> Cinderella, Song of the South, Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland all contain
> design elements heavily adapted from Mary's personal style as well being guided
> by her color sensibilty. Walt was frustrated that her style was watered down
> so much from the inspirational art, and this is why he empowered Eyvind Earle
> for "Sleeping Beauty".
Eyvind Earle's backgrounds were nice as they were, but as backgrounds
for animation, they were too busy and distracting. Sleeping Beauty was
a failure at the box office, nearly sinking the studio. If it weren't
for Disneyland propping up the animation department, the studio very
likely would have folded.
Someone wrote up a very nice biography of Mary Blair. You can find it
at:
http://www.lorenjavier.com/popculture/maryblair.html
Mr. Liver
[http://www.jps.net/cwa/] where she met her husband, Lee Blair, and also
obtained her knowledge of watercolors. Lee Blair joined Disney in 1938 and
later in 1940 Mary Blair would join her husband to work at Disney.
In 1941 When Disney compiled a team of animators to travel to South America,
Lee Blair was assigned to the group, and Mary asked to join them. On this
fateful trip, Walt would fall in love with Mary’s watercolors and style. She
became an art supervisor on "The Three Caballeros" and worked with future
Imagineer Ken Anderson. Like Ken, Mary would go on to work on several of the
Disney Animated Feature Films including Song of the South, Peter Pan, and
Cinderella. Despite her bad vision Walt was heard crediting Mary with using
colors he never knew existed.
In 1953 Mary Blair retired to work on her own projects. She was an
accomplished illustrator for children’s novels. But as fate would have it
Walt personally asked her to come back to work on some projects for
Disneyland, one of which was ‘it’s a small world." Mary’s sketches would
come to life in "it’s a small world" and many of dolls and sets were
directly inspired by her work. When the attraction was moved from the New
York World’s Fair to it’s permanent home at Disneyland, a great façade and
clock tower was designed by Blair.
Blair also created murals for two of Walt’s projects, two murals which
adorned the walls of the New Tomorrowland in 1967, and another mural which
went into the Contemporary Resort at Walt Disney World. When Walt died, with
her final projects completed Mary left Disney again. She died in 1978.
--
Mr. Liver
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.measureo.com
On AIM: Mr Liver - ICQ: 1421609
"Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise."
TulgeyWood
>>hideous... also hideous... repulsed me even as a child... I hated...
annoying.... cheap and tacky...<<
And who are the negative forces around here?
Jon Nadelberg
You.
Davko58
>
> Davko 58 wrote in one post the words/terms:
And therefore proving wrong Tulgey's repeated charges that I am somehow
some sort of Disney shill who sees no wrong anywhere in the Resort...
> >>hideous... also hideous... repulsed me even as a child... I hated...
> annoying.... cheap and tacky...<<
> And who are the negative forces around here?
You. The difference between us is I like and dislike some stuff,
depending on how it hits me. You appear to hate everything, sort of
like Mr. Liver.
Davko58
Mr. Liver
"Davko58" <Dav...@sprintmail.DEAD.com> wrote:
>You. The difference between us is I like
>and dislike some stuff, depending on
>how it hits me. You appear to hate
>everything, sort of like Mr. Liver.
Gosh that's not true. I happen to adore 'it's a small world'. It's just a
wonderful and timeless attraction. I just wish they would paint the outside
is all.
The Doctor
>Gosh that's not true. I happen to adore 'it's a small world'. It's just a
>wonderful and timeless attraction. I just wish they would paint the outside
>is all.
Ok Liver, I'd had my suspicions, but you've now just proven you are
pure evil. :-)
The Doctor
"And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean
all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when
you're good and crazy, oooh oooh oooh, the sky is the
limit!"-The Tick
Davko58
> "Davko58" <Dav...@sprintmail.DEAD.com> wrote:
> >You. The difference between us is I like
> >and dislike some stuff, depending on
> >how it hits me. You appear to hate
> >everything, sort of like Mr. Liver.
> Gosh that's not true. I happen to adore 'it's a small world'. It's just a
> wonderful and timeless attraction. I just wish they would paint the outside
> is all.
You're just saying that.
Davko58
Mr. Liver
"Davko58" <Dav...@sprintmail.DEAD.com> wrote:
>>Gosh that's not true. I happen to adore
>>'it's a small world'. It's just a wonderful
>>and timeless attraction. I just wish they
>>would paint the outside is all.
>You're just saying that.
I'll admit that my love for small world is a very recent thing. Up until a
couple months ago, I didn't much care for going through the non holiday
version. But after being dragged through it by my family, I found myself
enjoying it like I never thought I would!
There are a lot of things that can be done to make it better though. I
sorta wish they would rerecord the attraction audio (this is actually
something I want them to do for pirates and mansion too).
Oh and paint the outside too!
TulgeyWood
depending on how it hits me. You appear to hate everything, sort of
like Mr. Liver.<<
Contrarywise, I love without qualification...
...Disneyland
...the collective works of Walt Disney, filmaker, producer, artist, futurist,
storyteller, populist
...specific works of Walt Disney Studios artists: Eyvind Earle, Mary Blair,
Marc Davis, Ward Kimball, Ken Annakin, David Swift, Richard and Robert Sherman,
Oliver Wallace, George Bruns, Milt Kahl, Eric Larson, Frank Thoma, Ollie
Johnston, Claude Coats, Ken Anderson, Harper Goff, Carl Barks, Floyd
Gottfredson, Emile Kuri, Bill Walsh, Don DaGradi, Joe Grant, Bill Peet, Robert
Stevenson, Terry Gilkyson, Frank Smith, Buddy Baker, Bill Justice, X Atencio,
Ken O'Connor, Walt Peregoy, Tom Oreb, Jack Hannah, David Hand, Larry Morey,
Frank Churchill, Ken Darby, Fred Moore, Bill Tytla, T.Hee, Ub Iwerks, Les
Clark, etc.
...Walt Disney's films: Snow White, Pinocchio, Dumbo, Bambi, Cinderella, Three
Caballeros, Melody Time, Ichabod and Mr Toad, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan,
Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, One Hundred and One Dalmatians, Song of
the South, Treasure Island, 20, 000 Leagues Under the Sea, Old Yeller, Swiss
Family Robinson, The Parent Trap!, Darby O'Gill, Thrid Man on the Mountain, The
Absent-Minded Professor, Three Lives of Thomasina, Pollyanna, The
Moon-Spinners, Mary Poppins, Babes in Toyland, The Jungle Book, Winnie the Pooh
and the Honey Tree, Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day, Steamboat Willie, The
Klondike kid, The Whoopie Party, Two-Gun Mickey, Shanghaeid, Mickey's Good
Deed, Gulliver Mickey, Gallopin Gaucho, Mickey's Service Station, The
Dognapper, Building a Building, Thru the Mirror, The Band Concert, Pluto's
Jugement Day, Society Dog Show, Lend a Paw, Symphony Hour, Mickey's Rival,
Mickey's Trailer, Lonesome Ghosts, Lambert the Sheepish Lion, Susie the Blue
Coupe, Der Fuhrer's Face, Reason and Emotion, Chicken Little, Pigs is Pigs,
Trick or Treat, Donald's Crime, Donald's Dilemma, Hockey Homicide, In the Bag,
Up a Tree, Blame it on the Samba, Grand CanyonScope, Toot Whistle Plunk and
Boom, Donald's Happy Birthday, Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color, The
Mickey Mouse Club, Zorro, Davy Crockett, Living Desert, Vanishing Prairie,
White Wilderness, etc.
...Park Attractions: The Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Carbibbean, Sleeping
Beauty Castle, Alice in Wonderland, Adventure Thru Inner Space, Carousel of
Progress, Space Mountain, Swiss family treehouse, Mark Twain, Tom Sawyer
Island, Submarine Voyage, Skyway, Monorail, It's a Small World, Toontown,
Amewrica the Beautiful, Main Street USA, New Orleans Square, Golden Horseshoe
Revue, Tahitian Terrace, Enchanted Tiki Room, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln
(original version), Casey Jr, StoryBook Land, Matterhorn, AstroJets, Dumbo,
Peter Pan, Mr Toads Wild Ride, Primeval World, Railroad
...Paul Frees, Sterling Holloway, Eleanor Audley, Walt Disney, Pinto Colvig,
Clarence Nash, Bobby Driscoll, Kathryn Beaumont, Ilene Woods, Adriana
Casselotti, Hayley Mills, Annette Funicello, James MacArthur, Tommy Kirk, Kevin
Corcoran, Julie Andrews, Dick Van Dyke, Fred MacMuurray, Brian Keith, Maureen
O'Hara, Darlene Gillespie, Guy Williams, Suzanne Pleshette, Roddy MacDowall,
Dean Jones, Fess Parkert, Buddy Ebsen, Patrick MacGoohan, the Mello Men, etc.
...Minnie Yoo Hoo, Donald Duck Song, Mickey Mouse March, Someday My Prince Will
Come, When You Wish Upon a Star, Let's Get Together, The Monkey's Uncle, Zip a
Dee Doo Dah, Sooner or Later, Pecos Bill, Blue Shadows, Headless Horseman, I've
Got No Strings, A Dream is a Wish, Second Star to the Right, He's a Tramp,
Bella Notte, Once Upon ADream, Cruella DeVil, Swisskapolka!, Feed the Birds
(and about 50 other songs)...
...Walt Disney Productions/Walt Disney Company films: The Love Bug, Bedknobs
and Broomsticks, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Mulan, The
Nightmare Before Christmas, Toy Story, Toy Story II
... and I like lots of non-Disney related things too!
Matt
> I'll admit that my love for small world is a very recent thing. Up until a
> couple months ago, I didn't much care for going through the non holiday
> version. But after being dragged through it by my family, I found myself
> enjoying it like I never thought I would!
>
> There are a lot of things that can be done to make it better though. I
> sorta wish they would rerecord the attraction audio (this is actually
> something I want them to do for pirates and mansion too).
Well Mr. Knowitall, that is newly recorded music in the ride. I believe
it was replaced when DLP opened. It is not the original music. At
least not that main theme. Probably the individual countries are
original. Who knows though?
> Oh and paint the outside too!
Agreed.
Matt
--
Annual Passholder
Davko58 wrote:
Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
>
> Davko58
--
Annual Passholder -
The WHOLE F'N SHOW
Matt
Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
with the giant backpack full of patches?
Matt
Davko58
> Panhandling Asshole wrote:
> > Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
> Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
> with the giant backpack full of patches?
He's the 500 lb. guy with 376 buttons, the Indy hat, the earpiece dialed
into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
will be laid during this century. He might even know some dead Russian
royalty.
Davko58
Matt
Davko58 wrote:
>
> Matt wrote:
>
> > Panhandling Asshole wrote:
>
> > > Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
>
> > Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
> > with the giant backpack full of patches?
>
> He's the 500 lb. guy
Me?
> with 376 buttons, the Indy hat, the earpiece dialed
> into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
> will be laid during this century.
Well this sounds exactly like me, but I have the West Side Operations
channel in my earpiece.
> He might even know some dead Russian royalty.
You think these people try to recreate royal Russian cuisine? BAM!
Davko58
> Davko58 wrote:
> > Matt wrote:
> > > Panhandling Asshole wrote:
> > > > Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
> > > Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
> > > with the giant backpack full of patches?
> > He's the 500 lb. guy
> Me?
Sorry, I meant to say the 600 lb. guy.
> > with 376 buttons, the Indy hat, the earpiece dialed
> > into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
> > will be laid during this century.
> Well this sounds exactly like me, but I have the West Side Operations
> channel in my earpiece.
I usually have the IASW song playing on cassette in my Walkman.
> > He might even know some dead Russian royalty.
> You think these people try to recreate royal Russian cuisine? BAM!
Blackened Chicken Kiev?
Davko58
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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Matt
Davko58 wrote:
>
> Matt wrote:
>
> > Davko58 wrote:
>
> > > Matt wrote:
>
> > > > Panhandling Asshole wrote:
>
> > > > > Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
>
> > > > Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
> > > > with the giant backpack full of patches?
>
> > > He's the 500 lb. guy
>
> > Me?
>
> Sorry, I meant to say the 600 lb. guy.
Oh that wouldn't be me. I can actually fit into one seat of Space
Mountain. I have seen folks take up both seats.
> > > with 376 buttons, the Indy hat, the earpiece dialed
> > > into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
> > > will be laid during this century.
>
> > Well this sounds exactly like me, but I have the West Side Operations
> > channel in my earpiece.
>
> I usually have the IASW song playing on cassette in my Walkman.
Is it the original 1964 version or the newer EDL FL IASW version?
> > > He might even know some dead Russian royalty.
>
> > You think these people try to recreate royal Russian cuisine? BAM!
>
> Blackened Chicken Kiev?
I don't know if that would be that good. I like the original fried
outside.
BUTTER!
Annual Passholder
Davko58 wrote:
> Matt wrote:
>
> > Panhandling Asshole wrote: (mightly clever fvor a F'N idiot)
>
> > > Then stay the F'N hell outta Fantasyland, Magic-Hater!
>
> > Are you the freak that runs around the park playing Uno? Or the one
> > with the giant backpack full of patches?
>
> He's the 500 lb. guy with 376 buttons, the Indy hat, the earpiece dialed
> into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
> will be laid during this century. He might even know some dead Russian
> royalty.
>
Attempt to get a clue, ok asshole? Dead Russian royalty SUCK. Sounds
like you know a few of them. Please get a schmeeble of a clue ya F'N STUPID
ASSHOLE before you interpret what or who anyone is. And as for your sexual
ponderings, you worry about what or who YOU fuck, ok dickhead?
>
> Davko58
What a F'N jerk.
Davko58
> Attempt to get a clue, ok asshole? Dead Russian royalty SUCK.
But you sound so much like the people who pretend that they are.
Must be a self-hating AP'er.
> Sounds
> like you know a few of them. Please get a schmeeble of a clue ya F'N STUPID
> ASSHOLE before you interpret what or who anyone is.
Your name is Annual Passholder. That says it all.
> And as for your sexual
> ponderings, you worry about what or who YOU fuck, ok dickhead?
Hehe. He had no answer.
As William Shatner said to the lame trekkie on SNL after asking him if
he ever kissed a girl, "Move out of your parent's basement!"
punkro...@webtv.net
apsi...@aol.communism (Mandelbrot) wrote:> tulgeywood wrote:> > > >>I know
of no art school that teaches the art of the mosaic. <<> >> >Looks like they
don't teach this in Bulgaria either...> >> > As far as mosaics go, this one
(or two actually) really does look well> thought-out and well executed. It
is unquestionably more complex and more> interesting than the TL Mary Blair
murals.Ahg, those murals were just plain gross. Nasty 70's harvest colors.
And those aren't just plain browns and yellows, they have that pukey look to
them. But the DCA mural is too bright and pastel looking, like someone made
it with sidewalk chalk.> > Mandelbrot>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
punkro...@webtv.net
wrote:> > > TulgeyWood wrote:> > > > >>Great, I think they weren't as nice as
others work. <<> > > > I think Mary Blair was a goddess of color and design.
Even as a child, before> > I knew who she was, I responded specifically and
uniquely to her work. I get a> > great emotional boost from her color
sensibilty in particular, and from her> > fascinating graphics sensibility.
Small World wasn't pink when she designed it, it was gold and white. Gold
and white are okay, but pink is just stupid. She and Eyvind Earle are two of
the Disney> > Studio artists whose work still fascinates when removed from
the context of the> > film. We are lucky they had such a great commercial
showcase for their talents> > in Walt's features and parks.> > Aside from
Small World and a few murals I can't remember one thing she> did. Ward
Kimball was a better artist in my book. Let's not forget Ken> Anderson.Marc
Davis. That guy gave the Haunted Mansion and Pirates more then just moving
animatronics, he gave those rides true character. > > Matt> -- > Have a
problem with what I am saying?> Please visit:
http://www.kungaloosh.com/matt.asp> All you need to do is fill out the
complaint form.>
abe
> > > into the Disneyland custodial channel, and no chance in hell that he
> > > will be laid during this century.
>
> > Well this sounds exactly like me, but I have the West Side Operations
> > channel in my earpiece.
>
Man...if your hearing that all say i bet you want to kill everyone by noon.
worst place to get stuck is in IASW.