One Of Hatter's Best Kept Drawing Sekrats
Onideus Mad Hatter
accurate and easily workable base form is to use the 3D Rendering
application Poser. It comes with a variety of human forms (or you can
even create your own) and then you can easily reposition them and move
around their limbs to create any sort of scene you like. The neat
part is that it can even render in outline mode, then you can simply
import it into yer graphics editor of choice, draw in teh facial
features you want and the hair, color it up good and proper and BOOM!
Easy breezy highly accurate drawings. Oh you can also go ahead and
render out the skin tone too if you want to save yourself even more
time, then you just need to digitally paint yer clothing bits on top
of the body form. Even if you don't use it directly like that it's
good for a base reference, much better than those little wooden dolls
they have for pencil/ink artists cause the computer gives you an
accurate 2D representation.
And yes, a lot of that "AMAZING" work that you see on Deviant Art is
done using techniques like that. See that's why I say the more I
learn the more I'm killing my idols, because more often than not their
"AMAZING" techniques are often just extremely simplistic but clever
use of software.
That said though, I tend to actually favor hand/mouse drawn art work
as it usually has more style...it may not be absolutely real life
perfect...but that gives it a uniqueness and also shows a stronger
ability in drawing.
As far the "AMAZING" color/shading/lighting you see in a lot of that
Deviant Art stuff...yeah...not actually that amazing when you look at
the actual techniques being used:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Muses/Getty_Tutorial_-_How_To_Color_Eyes.png
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Muses/Getty_Tutorial_-_How_To_Color_Hair.png
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Muses/Getty_Tutorial_-_How_To_Soft_Cell_Shade.png
Those are some of the best tutorials I've picked up on teh subject,
props go out to Getty for makin em.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
Wavy G
thee.
So basically, your secret of drawing is, like, the virtual,
s00per-tecknilogical version of tracing?
Onideus Mad Hatter
Yup, but it's a completely manipulative trace form, allowing you to
produce extremely realistic, originally posed figures with amazing
speed. It's especially handy for drawing comics.
Wavy G
*Sigh*
Jerry Holkins (do a Google search) is spinning in his grave.
Onideus Mad Hatter
Uh, why would I need to run a Google search? And in what part of the
Land of Stupid is "Tycho" dead?
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
salami met bami
"Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> schreef in bericht
news:l1his2da9sdf1idki...@4ax.com...
> If you're drawing a human figure, one of the best ways to get a highly
> accurate and easily workable base form is to use the 3D Rendering
> application Poser. It comes with a variety of human forms (or you can
> even create your own) and then you can easily reposition them and move
> around their limbs to create any sort of scene you like. The neat
> part is that it can even render in outline mode, then you can simply
> import it into yer graphics editor of choice, draw in teh facial
> features you want and the hair, color it up good and proper and BOOM!
> Easy breezy highly accurate drawings. Oh you can also go ahead and
> render out the skin tone too if you want to save yourself even more
> time, then you just need to digitally paint yer clothing bits on top
> of the body form. Even if you don't use it directly like that it's
> good for a base reference, much better than those little wooden dolls
> they have for pencil/ink artists cause the computer gives you an
> accurate 2D representation.
Nothing wrong with that.
Even the old artists used the camera obscura techniek
to make more realistic paintings, scientifically proven.
Fred Doyle
> If you're drawing a human figure, one of the best ways to get a highly
> accurate and easily workable base form is to use the 3D Rendering
> application Poser. It comes with a variety of human forms (or you can
> even create your own) and then you can easily reposition them and move
> around their limbs to create any sort of scene you like. The neat
> part is that it can even render in outline mode, then you can simply
> import it into yer graphics editor of choice, draw in teh facial
> features you want and the hair, color it up good and proper and BOOM!
> Easy breezy highly accurate drawings. Oh you can also go ahead and
> render out the skin tone too if you want to save yourself even more
> time, then you just need to digitally paint yer clothing bits on top
> of the body form. Even if you don't use it directly like that it's
> good for a base reference, much better than those little wooden dolls
> they have for pencil/ink artists cause the computer gives you an
> accurate 2D representation.
>
ever hear of rotoscoping?
--
Fred Doyle
Jeckyl
other newbies. Just because it may be something that those who are
professionals, or more experienced, already know and take for granted is no
reason to be harsh. He is still learning (and if we're lucky, we can all
say we are still learning .. when you stop learning, you might as well be
dead).
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
Yup, it's basically the current most advanced form of that technique.
Although in the digital world it's often referred to as cell shaded
rendering. It's also been used in various video games like Zelda:
Windwaker and Dark Cloud II. Most modern day cartoons series and
movies also use the technique...except for the Simpsons who last I
checked still employed Chinese slave labor to hand paint their cells.
:(
Wavy G
Ahh, I see you did the Google search like I requested. Thanks for
complying. It really makes reading my posts easier to comprehend for
the weaker-minded, lol.
> --
>
>Onideus Mad Hatter
>mhm ą x ą
Onideus Mad Hatter
Oh boy, Raving Retard here thinks he's the only one whose heard of
Penny Arcade now. *rolls eyes*
Tell me, are you like ~trying~ to look stupid...or is it just
happening natural for you?
Wavy G
I can't tell. I've been trying for so long, I don't know if it
happens natural or not anymore. But boy, I sure did get you, and but
good, yes?
Love,
Wavy G
fsds...@gmail.com
> I'm going to have to jump in here and say that, I probably would not
> suggest using that method... It all depends on what you are doing,
> but I wouldn't start drawing off of rough geometry like that... The
> poser models aren't that great to start off, and image reference is
> probably the next best thing to real life. The poser models don't
> have that level of realism needed, like cording of muscle and
> expression.
>
As you said yourself, it depends. For someone trying to learn
anatomy, I'd agree that the Poser models are not the route to go.
However, for a reference for body positioning, it can really be quite
handy. Also, you can quickly set up any pose, from any angle very
quickly -- removing the need to find a photo reference in just the
right pose, or hiring a model.
> Also, I followed your tut links provided, and if you really want to
> grow as an artist... dont draw anime. If you want to copy...copy the
> masters. You might actually be able to learn something there. Anime
> will only impede your growth... its crap. Its out of proportion and
> definitely not something worth replicating. I cant understand how in
> those cartoons, they can have amazing scenery and effects, but when it
> came to the people, they decided to let their kids do the
> cartooning... I guess It just stuck after that. lol.
>
Anime, like all forms of abstract art, can be difficult to understand
and master. On the surface, it can be easy to dismiss it, but in many
cases the simplification of the body form serves a specific purpose.
The difficulty in conveying emotion is proportional to the complexity
of the drawing. The more detail, the more work the audience has to do
to interpret the intended emotions. This is why many of the more
realistically drawn cartoons simply bypass showing emotion entirely.
With Anime, however, emotion is key to the storytelling. By
distilling the characters to their most basic forms -- eyes and mouths
-- it becomes possible to very quickly and easily display a huge range
of emotions and expression. The subtleties that we take for granted
in real life need to be exaggerated in the abstract to have the same
impact.
The best Anime artists are VERY well versed in anatomy and elements
that appear "out of propotion" are rendered that way for specific
effect. It is a style with its own rules and whether you are aware of
the rules or not, good Anime follows them.
I would say that copying the Anime style without a basic understanding
of anatomy is a mistake and will lead to breaking "anatomical rules"
without an understanding for WHY those rules are being broken.
But it's not fair to dismiss that style as worthless just because it
doesn't happen to appeal to you.
-- Robert
Onideus Mad Hatter
...so now you're claiming that you trolled me...by making yourself
look like a fucking retard...uh...ya know, that's not really so much
"trolling" as it is...well...being a fucking retard. HTH
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Wavy G
Is this an admission of defeat? Very well, I accept. Man, you must
really feel dumn, what with being trolled by a "retard" and all. I
WIN!!@! i'M SO HAPPY, I'M GOING TO GO OFF NOW AND PRACTICE MY ART OF
TRACING COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!! WHEE!@
Daedalus
This hace been a very great usenet battle!
Please include me on your mailing lits!
Jade
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>I'm going to have to jump in here and say that, I probably would not
>suggest using that method... It all depends on what you are doing,
>but I wouldn't start drawing off of rough geometry like that... The
>poser models aren't that great to start off, and image reference is
>probably the next best thing to real life. The poser models don't
>have that level of realism needed, like cording of muscle and
>expression.
...uh...what the fuck version of Poser are YOU referring to?
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Usenet/Poser_5_Model.png
DUM DUM DUM DUM
Oh yeah, certainly there's no cording of muscle there...you fuckin
retard. As for expressions, um, hello, it comes with a WHOLE FUCKING
LIBRARY of expressions. *rolls eyes*
>Also, I followed your tut links provided, and if you really want to
>grow as an artist... dont draw anime.
Okay, first of all n00b, those tutorial can be used for ANY type of
drawing. OBVIOUSLY you didn't actually READ any of them, because
they're not even FOR anime. Last I checked all anime characters were
CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
(although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
and attempt that in a cartoon).
> If you want to copy...copy the
>masters.
Oh please, do share, who ARE these "masters" that you're referring to?
>You might actually be able to learn something there.
Yeah like what a fuckin poser ass n00b you are.
>Anime will only impede your growth... its crap.
Any so called artist who considers ANY form of art to be "crap" is no
artist in my book, just some fuckin uneducated poser.
> Its out of proportion and definitely not something worth replicating.
Well of COURSE it's out of proportion you stupid doorknob. *rolls
eyes* Yeesh, where the fuck did this idiot come from? Art school for
retards?
>I cant understand how in
>those cartoons, they can have amazing scenery and effects, but when it
>came to the people, they decided to let their kids do the
>cartooning... I guess It just stuck after that. lol.
Well of course *YOU* can't understand, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!
I mean even if you want to set aside the ARTISTIC reasons for doing it
are so you utterly dimwitted that you don't comprehend HOW the
animation process works? I mean, hello, dumbass, you would have to
individually color/texture THIRTY DIFFERENT IMAGES for ONE SECOND of
animation (or 15 if ya wanted to make it look cheap). Maybe in THE
LAND OF FUCKING STUPID that's something incredibly easy for a NOOB
like you to shit out over the course of an hour. However in the REAL
WORLD...not so much. Again, at some point it might be really cool if
someone were to actually attempt such a feat (I myself have grand
plans on trying to animate out a few SCENES of my Care Bears fan fic
using such methods), however a WHOLE MOVIE...that would take nothing
short of a whole ARMY of high end artists who were all magically
capable of producing the EXACT same style. *rolls eyes* At best you
can use 3D models and render out cell shaded output, but it never
looks very good, it's always too formulaic look, it doesn't have
that...human touch to it.
>And trust me, this little "trick" is not what makes artists great,
No apparently running at the fuckin mouth like you do is what you
think makes an artist great...at least, you know, IN THE LAND OF
FUCKING STUPID.
>it is the thought process... you could learn all these little tidbits,
>read, do every tutorial, and still be terrible.
Or in your case you could be an unproducing fuckwit running at the
mouth on Usenet with nothing but a lot of hot air and ignorance backin
up yer snitting little tantrum.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Fred Doyle
"Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote
> Last I checked all anime characters were
> CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
> (although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
> and attempt that in a cartoon).
>
Jeckyl
I agree with you there:
Glyphics
"Jeckyl" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12snaak...@corp.supernews.com...
I'm an artist - I see crap art all the time. it's just an opinion.
- Scott
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>
Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the backgrounds), what
about it?
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Jeckyl
There's a big difference between a personal opinion that one thinks a
particular work of art is crap (yes .. there are lots of pieces of 'crap'
art out there), and saying that an entire art form is crap and not worthy of
being studied by others. ie the difference between "I don't like it" and "I
don't like it, therefore noone else should like it or do it"
Unless of course you are an art critic .. and not many art critics are
actually artists :) Those that can, do .. those that can't become critics.
--
Jeckyl
Jeckyl
> And trust me, this little "trick" is not what makes artists great, it
> is the thought process... you could learn all these little tidbits,
> read, do every tutorial, and still be terrible.
Even a machine can be proficient at doing something .. but it is soul and
emotion and creativity (not just skill) that makes art.
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
That's why computer rendered cell shading (3D Models rendered in 2D)
will never look as good as say these:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_1.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_2.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_3.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_4.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_5.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_6.jpg
Unfortunately that level of artistic product takes a rather severe
amount of time to produce, which is why there are no animated features
of any kind that make use of it. Animated features look, at best,
like nyah:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Cell_Shaded_Example.jpg
Personally, my current ultimate goal as an artist is to achieve a
level of skill where I can produce such highly detailed work as the
examples I gave and then to create an ACTUAL animated sequence lasting
at LEAST one minute. At about 15 frames a second I'll need to produce
around 900 pieces...no easy task...and one that has never been
achieved before.
Fred Doyle
>> "Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote
>>> Last I checked all anime characters were
>>> CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
>>> (although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
>>> and attempt that in a cartoon).
>>>
>> Ever see Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away?
>
> Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the backgrounds), what
> about it?
Um, no, not really.
There's a very limited amount of computer animation in it, ripples in
the mud bath, steam in the bathhouse, but most of the character
animation is traditional animation not cell shading. Look at some of the
books on the artwork of the movie, or watch the Japanese TV special on
the second DVD disc to see some of the production techniques.
Fred Doyle
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
>
>>> "Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote
>>>> Last I checked all anime characters were
>>>> CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
>>>> (although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
>>>> and attempt that in a cartoon).
>>>>
>>> Ever see Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away?
>>
>> Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the backgrounds), what
>> about it?
>Um, no, not really.
Um, yes, really.
>There's a very limited amount of computer animation in it,
WRONG!
D00d, I have a copy of the fuckin DVD right here with the whole gawd
damn "making of" portion on it, most of the entire freakin movie
(outside of the backgrounds) is computer rendered. They had a few
artists doing key frames and then they had the lesser artists creating
the sub frames via software and doing limited manipulations. After
which they were cell shaded on the computer using the most simplistic
techniques imaginable (in order to save time).
>ripples in
>the mud bath, steam in the bathhouse, but most of the character
>animation is traditional animation not cell shading.
...isn't that what I said in the first place? Yeesh, it's like I'm
fuckin talkin to myself here.
>Look at some of the
>books on the artwork of the movie, or watch the Japanese TV special on
>the second DVD disc to see some of the production techniques.
Again, I got it right on my fuckin drive, ALL of the moving character
animation is cell shaded, NONE OF IT is done to the level of say these
examples:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Fred Doyle
> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:13:21 -0500, Fred Doyle <fdo...@nycap.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
>>
>>>> "Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote
>>>>> Last I checked all anime characters were
>>>>> CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
>>>>> (although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
>>>>> and attempt that in a cartoon).
>>>>>
>>>> Ever see Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away?
>>> Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the backgrounds), what
>>> about it?
>
>> Um, no, not really.
>
> Um, yes, really.
>
>> There's a very limited amount of computer animation in it,
>
> WRONG!
>
> D00d, I have a copy of the fuckin DVD right here with the whole gawd
> damn "making of" portion on it, most of the entire freakin movie
> (outside of the backgrounds) is computer rendered. They had a few
> artists doing key frames and then they had the lesser artists creating
> the sub frames via software and doing limited manipulations. After
> which they were cell shaded on the computer using the most simplistic
> techniques imaginable (in order to save time).
Oh good, I'm glad you've got the DVD. I assume when you say you're
you're looking at the "making of" portion, you mean the Nippon TV
special about the making of the film. If not, let me know what you're
looking at. Please, tell me what part you're looking at. Time
code,perhaps of what you are seeing that indicates that there is any
cell shading in the film. I'd like to go look it up on the discs. I have
them, too and wold like to know what you are seeing.
Also in terms of "cell shaded," so that we are talking the same
terminology, I assume you are meaning a technique that starts with a
traditional computer generated 3D description of an object or a scene
and uses specialized rendering techniques to make the object or scene
appear hand drawn, much like described here:
http://www.antisphere.com/Research/Cartoon.php
and here
http://www.antisphere.com/Research/RR-2919.php
or
http://www.answers.com/topic/cel-shaded-animation
or as defined here
http://www.cpupedia.com/definition/cel-shaded+animation.aspx
If not, please let me know what you mean by cell shading and where your
definition comes from.
>
>> ripples in
>> the mud bath, steam in the bathhouse, but most of the character
>> animation is traditional animation not cell shading.
>
> ....isn't that what I said in the first place?
No,not at all. all you said when asked if you had ever seen Spirited
Away was, "Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the
backgrounds), what about it?" Nothing about mud baths or steam or
anything, other than, "Yeah, pretty much all cell shaded (except for the
backgrounds), what about it?" Perhaps you could quote what you said that
had anything to do about mud baths or steam, or anything other than
"pretty much all cell shaded"
> Yeesh, it's like I'm fuckin talkin to myself here.
Now we finally agree on something.
> Again, I got it right on my fuckin drive, ALL of the moving character
> animation is cell shaded,
Time code that indicates that please?
--
Fred Doyle
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>> WRONG!
>>
>> D00d, I have a copy of the fuckin DVD right here with the whole gawd
>> damn "making of" portion on it, most of the entire freakin movie
>> (outside of the backgrounds) is computer rendered. They had a few
>> artists doing key frames and then they had the lesser artists creating
>> the sub frames via software and doing limited manipulations. After
>> which they were cell shaded on the computer using the most simplistic
>> techniques imaginable (in order to save time).
>Oh good, I'm glad you've got the DVD.
...what is that supposed to be a joke? Um, hello, Mad Hatter here,
famous data/media pirate, 7 terabyte data archive...honestly, what
*haven't* I seen. My range of media exposure is WAY beyond most
people, not only in mainstream forms but those in the underground and
fan based communities. Covering all genres too from cosplay art to
video editing to digital art, rendering, model building, music, etc,
etc.
>I assume when you say you're
>you're looking at the "making of" portion, you mean the Nippon TV
>special about the making of the film. If not, let me know what you're
>looking at. Please, tell me what part you're looking at. Time
>code,perhaps of what you are seeing that indicates that there is any
>cell shading in the film. I'd like to go look it up on the discs. I have
>them, too and wold like to know what you are seeing.
>
>Also in terms of "cell shaded," so that we are talking the same
>terminology, I assume you are meaning a technique that starts with a
>traditional computer generated 3D description of an object or a scene
>and uses specialized rendering techniques to make the object or scene
>appear hand drawn, much like described here:
>http://www.antisphere.com/Research/Cartoon.php
>and here
>http://www.antisphere.com/Research/RR-2919.php
>or
>http://www.answers.com/topic/cel-shaded-animation
>or as defined here
>http://www.cpupedia.com/definition/cel-shaded+animation.aspx
>
>If not, please let me know what you mean by cell shading and where your
>definition comes from.
No, no, no, that's referring to cell shading in terms of 3D MODELING
(which isn't even what they used). When I say cell shaded I'm
referring to DIGITAL PAINTING. Using SOLID BLOCKS OF COLOR, like
nyah:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Cell_Shaded_Example.jpg
As opposed to using BLENDED COLOR like nyah:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_1.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_2.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_3.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_4.jpg
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_adg/Non_Cell_Shaded_Anime_Style/Example_5.jpg
Can you see the difference? If you can't see the difference there's
not much point in continuing this conversation.
>> Again, I got it right on my fuckin drive, ALL of the moving character
>> animation is cell shaded,
>Time code that indicates that please?
Uh, that's on you. Provide the time code IN THE MOVIE ITSELF that has
MOVING CHARACTERS with BLENDED COLORING rather than CELLS OF SOLID
COLOR.
As far as the "making of" video, um, you can see what software they're
using, there's one bit in there where there's a flunkie DIGITALLY
DRAWING intermediary frames from the key frames...no 3D anything about
it. Aside from the backgrounds and some of the effects all the moving
characters are digitally drawn and digitally painted using cell
shading techniques...again cell shading in reference to DIGITAL
PAINTING and NOT 3D rendering, those are two entirely separate things.
Furthermore, most all of the character talking animation in that
movie, like most all non-3D rendered anime/cartoons is flat/static.
If you ever want to REALLY prove your skills as an animator try
digitally drawing out a character whose moving their head and talking
at the same time. Or, another uber high end animation technique is to
have a character moving around, walking, running, etc and then to have
the "camera" or user perspective move AROUND the character in motion.
With 3D animation that's rendered in cell shade mode it's pretty easy
(although very easy to spot it as computer generated) but to HAND DRAW
that sort of thing...*whistles*...makes the "great artists" of
centuries past look like amateurs by comparison.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Wavy G
Oh, don't think this is over just yet, Jade. Any time now, he's gonna
come back with, "Uhh, but no, uh, I was the won torlling YOU! *I'm*
teh k00l haxxor h33r!!!" LOL, it's gonna be pathetic, so be sure to
stick around, LOL.
Onideus Mad Hatter
>>>>Tell me, are you like ~trying~ to look stupid...or is it just
>>>>happening natural for you?
>>>I can't tell. I've been trying for so long, I don't know if it
>>>happens natural or not anymore. But boy, I sure did get you, and but
>>>good, yes?
>>...so now you're claiming that you trolled me...by making yourself
>>look like a fucking retard...uh...ya know, that's not really so much
>>"trolling" as it is...well...being a fucking retard. HTH
>Is this an admission of defeat? Very well, I accept. Man, you must
>really feel dumn, what with being trolled by a "retard" and all. I
>WIN!!@! i'M SO HAPPY, I'M GOING TO GO OFF NOW AND PRACTICE MY ART OF
>TRACING COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!! WHEE!@
That's a lovely tantrum, would you like to throw another or should I
just change your diapers and put you to bed, child?
Wavy G
thee.
>On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 15:21:41 -0500, Wavy G <Ims...@WavyG.org> wrote:
>
>>>>>Tell me, are you like ~trying~ to look stupid...or is it just
>>>>>happening natural for you?
>
>>>>I can't tell. I've been trying for so long, I don't know if it
>>>>happens natural or not anymore. But boy, I sure did get you, and but
>>>>good, yes?
>
>>>...so now you're claiming that you trolled me...by making yourself
>>>look like a fucking retard...uh...ya know, that's not really so much
>>>"trolling" as it is...well...being a fucking retard. HTH
>
>>Is this an admission of defeat? Very well, I accept. Man, you must
>>really feel dumn, what with being trolled by a "retard" and all. I
>>WIN!!@! i'M SO HAPPY, I'M GOING TO GO OFF NOW AND PRACTICE MY ART OF
>>TRACING COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!! WHEE!@
>
>That's a lovely tantrum, would you like to throw another or should I
>just change your diapers and put you to bed, child?
Hmm, well...I'm not really ready for bed yet. I don't have to get up
for work or anything like that tomorrow, so the rest of my evening is
still wide open. I'm actually putting on my trousers RIGHT NOW, and
I'm getting ready to go out to a "bar" and have a few beverages (and
hopefully, meet a few pretty ladies, *wink*). I'm not likely to throw
any further tantrums this evening (alcohol is a mild sedative), so I
may not require your assistance any further tonight. Oh, and
actually, I have already gone to the toilet and I have powdered my
buttocks, but thank you for the offer, Sweet Clown Prince of Usenet.
Fred Doyle
>
> No, no, no, that's referring to cell shading in terms of 3D MODELING
> (which isn't even what they used). When I say cell shaded I'm
> referring to DIGITAL PAINTING. Using SOLID BLOCKS OF COLOR,
Oh... NOW I get it. You threw out a term without really knowing what it
meant.
--
Fred Doyle
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>> No, no, no, that's referring to cell shading in terms of 3D MODELING
>> (which isn't even what they used). When I say cell shaded I'm
>> referring to DIGITAL PAINTING. Using SOLID BLOCKS OF COLOR,
>Oh... NOW I get it. You threw out a term without really knowing what it
>meant.
Oh look, another one of "those". Deficients like you are always an
enigma to me. I mean, I just don't understand how a person can be so
retarded to the point where they *SO* firmly believe that a word or
phrase can only have SINGLE meaning and will actually argue, at length
about it with you.
*rolls eyes*
Free cl00 child, from the VERY BEGINNING of this thread I understood
the DEFINITIONS..TIONS..S..that's an S as in MULTIPLE MEANINGS, write
it the fuck down if yer still having problems. And in EVERY instance
of using the term there was ALWAYS VERY CLEAR CONTEXT between talking
about 3D RENDERING and DIGITAL PAINTING. YOU are the idiot who did
not comprehend that the word had more than one meaning and YOU are the
idiot who fumbled through the discussion looking like an idiot.
Further, and this is a very interesting thing to note. A few months
back I was in a NEAR IDENTICAL discussion to this one over on PoE with
some utter fuckin retard like you who thought that it only had ONE
definition...the really funny part about it...is that he was trying to
argue that the ONLY definition was the OPPOSITE of the one YOUR trying
to argue as the ONLY definition...LOL...you two are like
polar-retards. ^_^
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Jeckyl
> meant.
A bit like an earlier episode with 'pre-multiplied rgb' :)
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
In that you were wrong then too...yeah.
See that's the difference between me and you kids, when I act arrogant
and egotistical...it's because I'm right. When you kids do
it...eh...not so much most of the time. Or it's like you only half
understand something so then when someone asks for an explanation you
give half of an answer but present it as a whole answer and then it
doesn't make any sense. And then you wind up getting all indignant
and pissy cause the guy you explained it to is like, "Huh?"
Hopefully none of you will ever subject the world to something as
torturous as a text book full of your halfisms...*shudder*...then
again, maybe that's where your CURRENT half understanding came from in
the first place.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Jeckyl
> In that you were wrong then too...yeah.
No .. YOU were very clearly wrong in just about everything you said in that
thread. I know it must be embarrassing for you, sorry to have brought it up
again.
To summarise, you started a thread asking how to convert rgb into a hex
string. Then suddenly you started talking about "pre-multiplied rgb" and
complaining that you could find no information on it. So when those of us
who REALLY know what the term means (because it is a technique we actually
use in digital image processing and in things like the internals of Flash
Player) took the time to try to explain it to you, you went off on one of
your little insult tantrums again. Yet the problem was that you used a
technical term for completely the wrong meaning (a meaning it does not
have), which explained why you couldn't find any information on it that
seemed relevant to converting RGB values to hex.
It seems whenever you find out you're wrong, or don't know what you're
talking about, you start with these tantrums to try to divert attention away
from your mistake / shortcoming. And judging by the number of times I've
seen you posting that way .. you must make a lot of mistakes :)
It is a very imature way of dealing with mistkaes, and a very poor way of
dealing with people. If your real life behaviour is anything like it is
here, you must be very lonely (and probably served some time in jail by
now).
> See that's the difference between me and you kids, when I act arrogant
> and egotistical...it's because I'm right.
Oh, you are funny.
> Hopefully none of you will ever subject the world to something as
> torturous as a text book full of your halfisms...*shudder*...then
> again, maybe that's where your CURRENT half understanding came from in
> the first place.
God help the world if you ever write anyhting .. mind you. it probably
wouldn' get past the censors for its offensive language :)
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
>>>A bit like an earlier episode with 'pre-multiplied rgb' :)
>> In that you were wrong then too...yeah.
>No .. YOU were very clearly wrong in just about everything you said in that
>thread. I know it must be embarrassing for you, sorry to have brought it up
>again.
Uh, you're the one who keeps attempting to molest it for brownie
points, Kiddo, not me. Musta sure bothered you, what with how you
can't seem to let it go.
>To summarise, you started a thread asking how to convert rgb into a hex
>string. Then suddenly you started talking about "pre-multiplied rgb" and
>complaining that you could find no information on it. So when those of us
>who REALLY know what the term means (because it is a technique we actually
>use in digital image processing and in things like the internals of Flash
>Player) took the time to try to explain it to you, you went off on one of
>your little insult tantrums again. Yet the problem was that you used a
>technical term for completely the wrong meaning (a meaning it does not
>have), which explained why you couldn't find any information on it that
>seemed relevant to converting RGB values to hex.
Your revisionist history is quite comforting to you I'm sure, however
reality tells a very different story. In fact as I recall there were
more than THREE "oh wait, no wait, did I just say that" posts coming
from you and the other doorknobs trying to "explain" the answer.
The funniest part was when you idiots (I don't remember if it was you
in particular) thought I was talking about premultiplied alpha values
and started retarding off information slurped up out of Wikipedia that
you "interpreted" to try and "explain" what I was talking about.
Then of course there was the whole, "All I want is a formula." that I
repeated over and over and over and FUCKING OVER again all the while
you and the other doorknobs kept tripping over yourselves with
halfwitted "explanations" of strawmen that never had fuck all to do
with what I even asked for in the first place.
Oh but hey, it's no bother to me, yer the retard whose apparently
being kept up at night thinkin about it. Seriously kiddo, yer like a
dog with a bone, let it go already.
>It seems whenever you find out you're wrong, or don't know what you're
>talking about, you start with these tantrums to try to divert attention away
>from your mistake / shortcoming. And judging by the number of times I've
>seen you posting that way .. you must make a lot of mistakes :)
You know what I think bothers you the most, Kiddo? It's the fact that
for all the "mistakes" you like to try and convince yourself that I
make...I'm the one who keeps on producing and you're the one
who...well...doesn't.
And the other fact of the matter is that so far every one of your
"suggestions" or "ideas"...has been pretty gawd damn lackluster.
Whether you want to talk about the 2 second speed increase on the save
button for the sprite generator or your "float" code that's got such a
shaky rendition of Brownian motion that it looks like a fuckin crack
addict goin through rehab.
You contribute VERY LITTLE to *MY* endeavors and you don't seem to
produce ANYTHING of your *OWN*. Perhaps if you spent less time
obsessing over some random argument/discussion involving hex/rgb
conversion and focused more on actually furthering your skills you
might not be such a fuckin joke.
See that's the other big difference between you and I. See I act
arrogant, I mean I'm like ego asshole numero uno...and to a lesser
extent, you act that way too. The difference is that while *I* use
that mentality as a way of FURTHERING my art and my ability, you tend
to use it as an EXCUSE to NOT produce anything. I mean for as much as
I claim to be so high and mighty I have NEVER claimed to have known
EVERYTHING...where as you pretty much have...on more than one
occasion...which again I think is interesting considering your
lackluster contributions.
>It is a very imature way of dealing with mistkaes, and a very poor way of
>dealing with people. If your real life behaviour is anything like it is
>here, you must be very lonely (and probably served some time in jail by
>now).
Oh boy, break out the fuckin Hatter Label Maker, here comes another
retard lookin for retribution. That helps you cope with your
inferiority, doesn't it? I mean to try and LABEL me as being "lonely"
or whatever, it helps you to try and justify your own failing stance
in life.
>> Hopefully none of you will ever subject the world to something as
>> torturous as a text book full of your halfisms...*shudder*...then
>> again, maybe that's where your CURRENT half understanding came from in
>> the first place.
>God help the world if you ever write anyhting .. mind you. it probably
>wouldn' get past the censors for its offensive language :)
Guess again:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.design.graphics/msg/460b86866553263b
http://forums.swishzone.com/index.php?showtopic=42700
See unlike you, when I help people...I tend to DROP the whole ego
maniac routine...where as you practically fuck it up the ass tryin to
compensate for your inferiority complex.
And just to drive the point home once again...you produce
NOTHING...me...shit I'm churnin out new material practically every
other fuckin day:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
Jeckyl
> can't seem to let it go.
First time I've mentioned it since that thread really.
> In fact as I recall there were
> more than THREE "oh wait, no wait, did I just say that" posts coming
> from you and the other doorknobs trying to "explain" the answer.
Poor recollection on your part
There was at least one by you when you icorrectly implemented the code i
gave you and got wrong results.
> The funniest part was when you idiots (I don't remember if it was you
> in particular) thought I was talking about premultiplied alpha values
Maybe it was because YOU are the one who started talking about it. Your
memory is very poor.
> Then of course there was the whole, "All I want is a formula." that I
> repeated over and over and over and FUCKING OVER again
My first post in that thread was the correct formula for giving a hex string
from rgb values.
> You know what I think bothers you the most, Kiddo? It's the fact that
> for all the "mistakes" you like to try and convince yourself that I
> make...I'm the one who keeps on producing and you're the one
> who...well...doesn't.
> And just to drive the point home once again...you produce
> NOTHING...me...shit I'm churnin out new material practically every
> other fuckin day:
> http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
You ever used a program salled SWiSH max? Guess who wrote that.
--
Jeckyl
Jeckyl
(he gets very confused) .. here's a summary of the posts in that infamous
thread about hex conversion:
> Hatter: refers to some bad MM example code to convert RGB to HEX ie:
var rgb:String = "0x"+ r.toString(16)+g.toString(16)+b.toString(16);
> Hatter: says he has similar problem. Says he has color "13,162,189 ..
> comes up as DA2BD .. which produces 218,43,13"
> Jeckyl: posts corrected formula which doesn't have a problem with
> producing incorrect hex results ie:
var rgb : String = "0x" + ((r*256+g)*256+b).toString(16);
> Hatter: says it does not solve his problem because he doesn't have rgb
> numbers. But his question says he does.
> Hatter: says he's searched for "premultiplied RGB codes" (first time he's
> mentioned that term) and "hex conversion" and not found anything
> Hatter: asks 'what the fuck *IS* a "premultiplied RGB value"' and that he
> was "spending HOURS searching the Internet I can't even find ONE
> reference"
(Google turns up over 17000 hits)
> two other posters gives links to info on premultiplied alpha
> (premultiplied alpha is a particular example of premultiplied rgb)
> another poster explains in more detail about conversion of individual rgb
> values to hex
> Hatter: asks for a simple formula / equation (for premultiplied rgb)
> another poster gives a simple formula for premultiplied rgb, why it is
> used, and a simple example
> Jeckyl: says a leading zero does not change a hex value
> Jeckyl: says if a leading zero IS making a difference, then the code doing
> the conversion back from hex must be buggy
(as it turned out the code Hatter had for hex->rgb was indeed buggy)
> Jeckyl: asks for more info of the context of "premultiplied rgb value"
> hatter is asking about
> Jeckyl: says that premultiplying rgb usually means pre-multiplying the r g
> and b values by an alpha value.
> Jeckyl: says that pre-multiplying isn't complicated.. its just
> multiplication, and gives an example
> Hatter: confuses jeckyl with another poster by not reading the names
> (jeckyl vs jasen)
> Hatter: misreads jasen's instructions for converting rgb to hex
> Hatter: comes up with (r*256+g)*256+b (ie the formula I posted in my first
> reply) and says "we have a formula now".
> Hatter: cannot understand why the conversion works and thinks it may be a
> 'mathematical palor trick' or shortening the number of bits
> Hatter: cannot says the the info about premultiplying rgb by alpha says
> nothing about premultiplied rgb, and starts insulting a poster for not
> reading.
> Jeckyl: (in reply to hatter's first post about premultiplied rgb) asks why
> Hatter didn't mention it before
> Hatter: claims that "THAT'S WHAT I WAS POSTING" (he wasnt, he was talking
> about hex conversion)
> Hatter: starts posting links to his sprite generator to try to show how
> clever he is
> Jeckyl: re-explains premultiplied rgb
> Jeckyl: explains how rgb values are stored in 8-bit bytes and so can be
> combined into a single 24-bit number
> Hatter: abuses me for not understanding the context (which he hadn't
> explained anyway)
> Hatter: says "Have you ever even HEARD of the bitmap data class" (this is
> the first time he mentions this)
> Hatter: asks for a way to get a leading zero in hex string
> Hatter: cannot understand that a leading zero makes no difference to a hex
> value, and quotes irrelevant info
> Hatter: says that his program is putting a zero on the end of DA2BD to get
> DA2BD0 and abuses me for it
> Hatter: now incorrectly thinks putting rgb values in a 24-bit number is
> meaningless for color representation, and is actually for image
> compression
> Jeckyl: exaplins the premultiplied rgb is unrelated to the original
> question about hex conversion.
> Jeckyl: gives an efficient formula for doing the converstion AND adding
> the leading zero, ie:
var rgb : String = "0x" + ("000000" +
((r*256+g)*256+b).toString(16)).substr(-6);
> Jeckyl: gives efficient code for converting 24-bit number from getPixel
> into separate r,g,b values:
var tmp = clr;
var b = tmp & 255;
tmp >>= 8;
var g = tmp & 255;
tmp >>= 8;
var r = tmp & 255;
> Jeckyl: gives efficient code for converting separate r,g,b valuse int a
> 24-bit number:
var clr = (r*256+g)*256+b;
> Jeckyl: gives efficient code for converting 24-bit number into hex stirng
> with leading zero(s)
var hexstring = ("000000" + clr.toString(16)).substr(-6);
> Hatter: makes unsubstantiated claim that Jeckyl's code is 7 times slower
> that what he is doing
> Jeckyl: posts a benchmakr script comparing his method and with Hatters:
> Jeckyl's is neary 6 times faster
> Jeckyl: posts compiled script to show why Hatter code is bigger and slower
> Hatter: posts a link to a version of his site, supposedly using my code,
> that fails.
(it fails because Hatter didn't code it correctly)
> Hatter: posts a "oh wait, partial bad on my end" admitting he was wrong,
> and that my method is faster, but somehow that still means I 'lose'
> Jeckyl: offers to look at hatters code to see if he can see any problems
> Hatter: claims the problems are in my code
> Hatter: posts some of his code, and expects me to 'backpedal'
> Jeckyl: points out the error in Hatters code (stuff he added that I had
> not posted)
> Hatter: reports it now works and is a bit faster, but that its a waste of
> his time
> Jeckyl: suggest increasing frame rate or using setInterval to get even
> faster processing
Of course, the full thread is much longer, mostly due to Hatters increasing
insults and abuse, and his ridiculously long sig :)
That should lay the whole episode to rest.
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
>> Musta sure bothered you, what with how you
>> can't seem to let it go.
>First time I've mentioned it since that thread really.
LOL, do you REALLY want me to start citing Google links? Cause
really, it'll only take me about 28 and a half seconds to bitch slap
you otherwise.
>> In fact as I recall there were
>> more than THREE "oh wait, no wait, did I just say that" posts coming
>> from you and the other doorknobs trying to "explain" the answer.
>Poor recollection on your part
Yeah I tend not to obsess over stupid, pointless bullshit...where as,
you know, you tend to WALLOW in it.
>There was at least one by you when you icorrectly implemented the code i
>gave you and got wrong results.
That's because you presented your code as a replacement for only part
of my code and I had simply replaced that part without actually taking
the bother to even look at the mechanics of your code, which actually
required replacement of a LARGER section of code that you did not
bother to outline in your description...again, please spare the world
the frustration and DO NOT write any text books.
>> The funniest part was when you idiots (I don't remember if it was you
>> in particular) thought I was talking about premultiplied alpha values
>Maybe it was because YOU are the one who started talking about it. Your
>memory is very poor.
LOL, you're claiming *MY* memory is poor?! Uh, look up the thread you
stupid fuckin retard:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.2600/browse_frm/thread/1d3171cbd3025a93
At NO POINT did I EVER mention the word "alpha", so I don't see how
*I* could have been the one who started talking about it, you stupid
moron.
>> Then of course there was the whole, "All I want is a formula." that I
>> repeated over and over and over and FUCKING OVER again
>My first post in that thread was the correct formula for giving a hex string
>from rgb values.
And the problem is that, that is ALL it was. Again DON'T EVER WRITE A
TEXT BOOK. Knowing you you'll fill it up with random formulas with no
explanations at all and then at the end of the book you'll start
trying to insult your reader for not magically being able to
comprehend your invisible context and explanations.
That's basically the gist of the that whole thread. I asked for
something, you presented an incoherent, out of context piece of
garbage code that, obviously someone who wasn't familiar with RGB Hex
conversion WOULD NOT KNOW ABOUT (unless maybe they were psychic) and
then you start raggin the fuck off on em cause they couldn't read your
idiot mind.
Essentially it's like someone shows up in a cooking newsgroup and
says, "Hey, I've never made a cake before in my life, can someone tell
me how to do it?" And then you respond with:
2 cups flour
2 cups sugar
2 teaspoon cinnamon
2 teaspoon baking soda
1 1/2 cups oil
4 Eggs
1 lb. finely grated carrots
At which point the person who, AGAIN has NEVER MADE A CAKE BEFORE IN
THEIR LIFE asks, "Um...yeah but how do I make a cake?"
After which you and a half dozen other stupid, drooling, morons start
circle jerking and slurping up each others asses about how important
you all think you are and how "dumb" the original poster is because,
golly gee whiz, he can't seem to READ YOUR FUCKING MIND.
That's often the problem with deficients like yourself, it's like you
gain some slight measure of technical skill which you THINK puts you
above all the rest of reality and then you use that as an EXCUSE to
stop producing and to start jacking yourself off at any given moment.
>> You know what I think bothers you the most, Kiddo? It's the fact that
>> for all the "mistakes" you like to try and convince yourself that I
>> make...I'm the one who keeps on producing and you're the one
>> who...well...doesn't.
>
>> And just to drive the point home once again...you produce
>> NOTHING...me...shit I'm churnin out new material practically every
>> other fuckin day:
>> http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
>You ever used a program salled SWiSH max? Guess who wrote that.
ROTFLMAO...oh get this, junior here claims he WROTE THE WHOLE FUCKING
SWISHMAX PROGRAM!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...*Hatter falls over the floor
laughing*...
...no, seriously...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...*gasp*
...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... `, D
....LOL...oh gawd, that's fuckin .sig material right there!
Oh I have just GOT to email business development about this. I think
the email is gonna go a lil something like this:
:Uh yes, hello, there's some crazy messed up d00d on Usenet named
:"Jeckyl" frothing on about RGB/Hex conversion and claiming to have
:wrote your entire SwishMax program...yes, that's right, the WHOLE
:program.
BTW Junior, even *IF* you were the one who magixally wrote the WHOLE
program, well that's not ~exactly~ something to be proud of. I mean
granted the overall interface of the program is leaps and bounds above
Macromedia Flash...but come on, any idiot could pretty much SHIT a GUI
that worked better than Macromedia's slop.
You ought to spend less time running around Usenet tryin to posture
yourself as some kind of important little asshole and more time FIXING
THE BUGS IN YOUR SOFTWARE. Right the fuck up at the top of my list
would be the LAG when dealing with Swish files that contain more than
say a few hundred image objects. Or how about that bitch of a
nuisance when you're importing dozens of different numbered images and
it PUTS THEM IN BACKWARDS! o_O And no, that little manual backwards
multiple selection technique with the shift key to get it to reverse
the file name order in the Windows open file dialogue box doesn't make
any difference, it STILL put the fuckers into the timeline in REVERSE
ORDER. And then of course if ya have over say 25 of them, well every
time you try moving ONE the gawd damn stupid thing stalls and
LAGS...and I'm using a gawd damn dual 2.4 Ghz Xeon system with four
fucking gigs of memory fer cryin out loud!
Yeesh...and to think you were tryin to bitch about the speed that *MY*
code was runnin at...tha fuck... *rolls eyes*
Jeckyl
> *I* could have been the one who started talking about it, you stupid
> moron.
I see you're getting hung up on that word 'alpha'. You see, premultipled
alpha is simply a particular case of premultiplied rgb, which you were
asking about.
Premultiplied rgb is where image color data is stored with the red, green,
and blue values already multiplied (pre-multiplied) by some factor. This is
done as an optimisation for later image processing (to avoid doing that same
multiplication possibly many times).
Premultiplied alpha is a particular (and most common) example of
premultiplied rgb, where the r, g and b values for a pixel are multiplied by
its alpha value.
That's why those kind people, who were trying to help you understand
premultiplied rgb, posted links to articles about premultiplied alpha.
So, the leap from you asking about premultiplied rgb to replies about
premultiplied alpha is great, and was relevant.
However, the leap from you asking about hex conversion to your post suddenly
being all about pre-multiplied rgb was a huge one.
I can only assume that, because the formula for converting an RGB value into
a HEX string involved some multiplication, that you thought that was
'premultiplied rgb'. Perhaps you'd heard or read the terms somewhere before
and thought that's what it was. That would explain why the articles you
must have found when looking for 'premultiplied rgb' made no sense to you
and were unrelated to hex conversion.
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>> ...uh...what the fuck version of Poser are YOU referring to?
>I am not talking about the program itself....
Uh oh, backpedal, LOOK OUT!
>I am talking about the meshes.
Oh I see...cause that certainly makes a difference.
>They are not photo realistic models and are also a step away
>from reality.
Um, hello, fucking retard, pretty much ALL art is "a step away from
reality", if it wasn't, it wouldn't be art! *rolls eyes* I swear,
where did this dumbfuck n00b crawl out from?
>> Oh yeah, certainly there's no cording of muscle there...you fuckin
>> retard.
>Exactly my point.
You missed the sarcasm, Kiddo...might wanna get yerself checked for
Asperger's.
>You think I dont understand CG?
You don't understand a LOT of things, child.
>> Okay, first of all n00b, those tutorial can be used for ANY type of
>> drawing. OBVIOUSLY you didn't actually READ any of them, because
>> they're not even FOR anime. Last I checked all anime characters were
>> CELL SHADED, not individually hand painted to detail frame by frame
>> (although that would be really cool if someone were to actually try
>> and attempt that in a cartoon).
>haha... these "amazing" tutorials were so basic...
Oh really? Well, perhaps you can show us some "advanced"
tutorials...nah, didn't think you could, Poser. But hey, don't let
that stop you from runnin at the mouth.
>and you are calling me a noob.
Yeah, n00b. I mean, are you fucking retarded? Do you think popping
up out of nowhere with NO WORK, NO SITES, NO EXAMPLES, NO PORTFOLIO,
NO NOTHING behind you and then to start yappin off at the mouth about
how you THINK something is "basic" without even taking any effort to
try and explain WHY you think it's "basic"...yeah...it doesn't really
get much more n00b than that, Junior.
>Im sorry but I learned dodge and burn the first 20 minutes
>on PS.
...wait, it took you TWENTY MINUTES?! Well shit, Poser Boi, I guess
if ya had, had that tutorial I posted ya could have figured it out in
about FIVE minutes...then again yer pretty damn slow so maybe TEN
might be a safer estimate.
>And there is 3d shading plugins to make renderings look like
>sketches and illustrations. But oh wait.... you wont find that on
>poser. ha.
Um...actually yeah, Poser has a WHOLE VARIETY of rendering output
options, maybe not as many as say Maya or 3Ds Max, but you can
certainly churn out cell shaded rendering you fuckin doorknob. And
further, THAT would actually be a infinitely MORE basic/noob level
technique than the material covered in the tutorials links I posted.
With 3D rendered cell shading it requires zero effort, zero skill and
produces formulaic looking hooha. Using the tutorial links I posted
you actually need to have some measure of skill, you actually have to
DO WORK and it's human driven painting, which makes it more
interesting to look at.
>Still though.... I saw your site. dont call anyone a noob.
Well if you saw the Backwater site that's one of my oldest and most
out of date sites. Why don't you try this on for size:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
He, he, he...you couldn't even fuckin BREATH at my level, you stupid
fuckin n00b. Oh but hey, why don't you try proving me wrong? Come
on, step it the fuck up and let's see some of YOUR work, Mouth. Or is
pulling shit out of yer ass all the better you're capable of
producing? Don't fuck with me kid...I'll rip ya apart and mind fuck
ya into a Hatter Addict if yer not careful. `, )
>> > If you want to copy...copy the
>> >masters.
>> Oh please, do share, who ARE these "masters" that you're referring to?
>Oh the masters? oh geez... you must really be a noob to the art
>world.... DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Donatello and Ra<COCK SLAP>
LOL...again you missed the sarcasm. Free cl00 n00b, retarding off the
most cliche names in art history does NOT make you sound like some
kind of a seasoned art veteran, it just makes you sound like a fuckin
n00b who doesn't know shit about art outside of what he slurped the
fuck up out of his 7th grade art appreciation class.
>> Yeah like what a fuckin poser ass n00b you are.
>Your right... I am new to poser... I dont use it at all actually. But
>3D progs are almost all the same. I use the big boy applications,
>C4D, Max, Modo.
Well no, you don't use them. See in order to use those programs you
would need to know WHY you should be using each one, when and for what
SPECIFIC tasks...you don't. I mean you are SUCH a fuckin n00b ass
retard that you would actually try and COMPARE 3DSMax to Poser?
ROTFL...I mean on the most superficial of levels they're both 3D
rendering apps, but they're not even REMOTELY related to each other in
WHAT YOU WOULD USE THEM FOR. *rolls eyes*
>> Any so called artist who considers ANY form of art to be "crap" is no
>> artist in my book, just some fuckin uneducated poser.
>Thats fine with me. I would loathe to be awed by you, lol. And I am
>talking about recycling a style over and over instead of reinventing
>yourself is the crap.
Uh, you would need to GET a style first for that to even happen,
Junior. So far all you got is Jack and shit...and Jack left town.
>> I mean even if you want to set aside the ARTISTIC reasons for doing it
>> are so you utterly dimwitted that you don't comprehend HOW the
>> animation process works? I mean, hello, dumbass, you would have to
>> individually color/texture THIRTY DIFFERENT IMAGES for ONE SECOND of
>> animation (or 15 if ya wanted to make it look cheap).
>Hahaa! run it at 24f at min there champ! obviously you don't know how
>the animation process works.
*froup line amended*
Get this, this stupid ass n00b job thinks ALL ANIMATION is clockin at
a minimum of 24 frames a second...LOL...yeah maybe if the only
animation you're familiar with is Disney derivative dumpster diving
over the past couple decades, you stupid fuckin poser n00b.
>Maybe in THE
>> LAND OF FUCKING STUPID that's something incredibly easy for a NOOB
>> like you to shit out over the course of an hour. However in the REAL
>> WORLD...not so much. Again, at some point it might be really cool if
>> someone were to actually attempt such a feat (I myself have grand
>> plans on trying to animate out a few SCENES of my Care Bears fan fic
>> using such methods), however a WHOLE MOVIE...that would take nothing
>> short of a whole ARMY of high end artists who were all magically
>> capable of producing the EXACT same style. *rolls eyes* At best you
>> can use 3D models and render out cell shaded output, but it never
>> looks very good, it's always too formulaic look, it doesn't have
>> that...human touch to it.
>Lol... thats funny. Good luck with that. I'll show you the ani I am
>working on, when I get done with it...
Uh huh, *SURE* you will. You won't show us shit, Junior...cause
that's all you got. LOL
>and "mr. Im a god" I am doing it at 30 fps
As retarded as you are you probably can't even explain WHY you've
chosen that frame rate. Yer probably like, "Uh...er...it was the
default?" LOL
>and am planning on doing segments that will run together
>to make hopefully a 1 hour film.
Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk...
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
Oh look at that, LIVE animation examples. That's the difference
between you and I, I actually got stuff to back up my claims...you've
got nothing but a lot of hot air.
Hell, my AMVs alone could severely beat the fuckin shit out of
anything you're capable of producing:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/feelingthis.avi
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/twistof.avi
That last one has some of the most untouched levels of uncut animation
to music/beat synch you can find. Most n00bs like you get to choppin
frames at the beats, those on my level have the skill to flawlessly
match the animation itself to the music.
Buy hey, you wanna compare stuff that's "in the works", right? Well
hells bells, why don't ya try this on for size, Junior:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/DS9_Faux_Movie_Trailer_Sample.avi
>Or maybe I will just do a CG ani...
Yeah that'd be the cheap ass N00B way to do it. Make sure it's REALLY
cheesy lookin, try and make it as plastic looking as possible, yeah,
boy I bet THAT'LL look just awesome.
>I dunno yet.
Yeah, what with how you don't even have the skillz yet to actually
back up any of this bullshit yer dreamin about.
>> Or in your case you could be an unproducing fuckwit running at the
>> mouth on Usenet with nothing but a lot of hot air and ignorance backin
>> up yer snitting little tantrum.
>lol... I think you should follow your own words on this.
Sorry Junior, but I've got dozens upon dozens of examples of custom,
high end, professional grade product in nearly every discipline of
computer tech there is, from programming to graphic design to
rendering, to gaming, to animation, to video editing, to networking,
you name, I've got it...you on the other hand...you have NOTHING.
*shrugs* Just remember, I didn't make reality, I just beat you with
it.
>Alright, I'm done with you... I could rant and rave, but I dont have
>the time or patience for this.... onto the actual logical responses.
Actually you don't have the work to back up your lies and bullshit,
you fuckin poser.
>Good response... I have some questions though... If anime is great at
>displaying emotion.... why do they have 3 mouth positions, and have to
>display whatever the hell it is with the little tear drop thing?
>Also, when it comes time for animation, its like they drop it down to
>like 10 fps
There are a whole variety of style of anime, some use a WHOLE LOT more
than 3 mouth positions, however in most cases the emotion in anime is
meant to be conveyed THROUGH THE EYES (and to a lesser extent the
hair/hair color), because of that the mouth/nose is purposefully made
smaller and more lip movements more subtle so as not to detract from
the eyes.
>Also, I actually like a few anime... so I dont hate it so outright.
>Comic book artists can take the style and make it thier own... I
>havent seen too many anime flicks that really do that. It is all
>regurgitation.
You obviously haven't seen ANY anime outside of the hacked up,
repackaged, Americanized garbage they show on Cartoon Network.
Coincidentally, most of the anime series they pick up, tend to be the
ones targeted towards kids (sans some of the stuff shown on adult swim
that's ~mostly~ uncut, like Cowboy Bebop.
Also, it's like some retard saying all black people look the
same...well, yeah, if you've had very little exposure to black people
and grew up in some backwards, hick run little racist run town...sure,
most black people probably do look the same to you. But if you're
INVOLVED with the people/culture and APPRECIATE IT then you start to
see that it's not all "black and white" and there is in fact a LOT of
difference between individual black people (or in this case individual
animes).
Basically what I'm saying...is that you're an art racist. ^_^
>I respect all forms of art.... I just hate seeing people chasing each
>other down the same path. It doesn't lead to innovation.
Art racists like you don't lead to anything other than hot air and a
bunch of poser driven failed dreams. Yer no artist kid...and you
probably never will be.
>I would love to see another DaVinci in our lifetime...
"I just hate seeing people chasing each other down the same path. It
doesn't lead to innovation."
Wow...how much of a stupid ass n00b retard do ya gotta be to
contradict yourself WITHIN TWO SENTENCES!
>Yah... better explained?
Cry...and then give up and run home, you stupid little failure. Gawd
I hate stupid ass poser n00bs. `, \
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>Hope you'll enjoy Hatters response .. he's a funny guy.
Do you wanna take bets on whether it'll turn him into a Hatter Addict?
If it does I think I'll name him "Stank". ^_^
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
>
>Oh look at that, LIVE animation examples.
Wow, a moving text. How impressive!
>That's the difference
>between you and I, I actually got stuff to back up my claims...you've
>got nothing but a lot of hot air.
>
>Hell, my AMVs alone could severely beat the fuckin shit out of
>anything you're capable of producing:
>
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/feelingthis.avi
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/twistof.avi
>
>That last one has some of the most untouched levels of uncut animation
>to music/beat synch you can find. Most n00bs like you get to choppin
>frames at the beats, those on my level have the skill to flawlessly
>match the animation itself to the music.
That may be, but from what I remember, the edit was long and boring, and
didn't tell anything.
>Buy hey, you wanna compare stuff that's "in the works", right? Well
>hells bells, why don't ya try this on for size, Junior:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/DS9_Faux_Movie_Trailer_Sample.avi
But, where is your recoloured WoO-dress? Never heard anything of that
anymore...
>>Or maybe I will just do a CG ani...
>Yeah that'd be the cheap ass N00B way to do it. Make sure it's REALLY
>cheesy lookin, try and make it as plastic looking as possible, yeah,
>boy I bet THAT'LL look just awesome.
He'll be in good company with you then with your "Subtle_Animation" ;-)
Because that one contains more cheese than Holland can produce in a year.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Subtle_Animation/
>>
>>Oh look at that, LIVE animation examples.
>Wow, a moving text. How impressive!
Show me a similar example of that effect. Wait, no, even better, show
me YOUR OWN example of that effect. Yeah...fail...and hey, feel bad
about it too. ^_^
>>That's the difference
>>between you and I, I actually got stuff to back up my claims...you've
>>got nothing but a lot of hot air.
>>
>>Hell, my AMVs alone could severely beat the fuckin shit out of
>>anything you're capable of producing:
>>
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/feelingthis.avi
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/twistof.avi
>>
>>That last one has some of the most untouched levels of uncut animation
>>to music/beat synch you can find. Most n00bs like you get to choppin
>>frames at the beats, those on my level have the skill to flawlessly
>>match the animation itself to the music.
>That may be, but from what I remember, the edit was long and boring, and
>didn't tell anything.
Well it's a bit genre specific, if yer a fan of the show(s) then
you'll get all the references and it'll make more sense. In this case
though I'm presenting them merely from a technical standpoint, not
from a subjective critique seeking one.
>>Buy hey, you wanna compare stuff that's "in the works", right? Well
>>hells bells, why don't ya try this on for size, Junior:
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_video/DS9_Faux_Movie_Trailer_Sample.avi
>But, where is your recoloured WoO-dress? Never heard anything of that
>anymore...
Yeah I kinda got caught up with this:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/
My endeavors tend to revolve around those who most enjoy my work and
who are most vocal about it. As far as the Alice dress
recolor...well...there didn't seem to be much interest in it and the
other side couldn't even sum up the balls to produce their own using
their supposed magixal plugin.
>>>Or maybe I will just do a CG ani...
>>Yeah that'd be the cheap ass N00B way to do it. Make sure it's REALLY
>>cheesy lookin, try and make it as plastic looking as possible, yeah,
>>boy I bet THAT'LL look just awesome.
>He'll be in good company with you then with your "Subtle_Animation" ;-)
>Because that one contains more cheese than Holland can produce in a year.
Hey, I finally managed to get a negative critique on the new logo!
Granted it's a lil dimwitted and there doesn't seem to be any
motivation behind it outside of some failing effort at verbal
retribution...but uh...well it's nice to know I haven't completely
hammered out perfection to the point of completely shutting up all the
Hatter Addicts and wannabe Hatter Addicts. I tell ya what, the scary
thing is that even acting like a complete asshole isn't enough
anymore. I mean it used to be that's all I had to do to garner a
negative response to my work, but now...yeah...a lot of times I'll
rack up praise even from peeps I verbally hammer the fuck into the
wall. I think it's a good gauge of my skill though and I'm looking
forward to pushing myself to even higher levels this year.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Max Grrl
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Um, no. He's written a few tutorials for me and they were actually
completely professional sounding, accurate, concise, and well . . .
perfect. He came off as an "approachable professor." Easy to
understand, yet technical and UNinsulting (some tutorials either talk
over your head or talk to you as if you're a moron . . . he did
neither).
All in all, I'd buy a book if he ever decided to publish.
> --
> Jeckyl
>
>
--
Max Grrl
---
"When he pulled it out you tackled me" Porchmonkey4Life admits he's been
sucking Snarky's cock AGAIN in response to my question "Are you done
"effortlessly" sucking his cock yet?" o_O
MID: <GvExh.50229$WI6.24306@trnddc04>
"Does my doggie's c0ck taste better than yours?" Porchy admits sucking Hat's
cock!! o_O
MID: <RCWxh.2254$384.981@trnddc05>
"Unlike you my brain in his my head." Porchy regales Rev with his blinding
intellect in MID: <K43zh.120$Aa5.66@trnddc01>
Jeckyl
> completely professional sounding, accurate, concise, and well . . .
> perfect. He came off as an "approachable professor." Easy to
> understand, yet technical and UNinsulting (some tutorials either talk
> over your head or talk to you as if you're a moron . . . he did
> neither).
Well .. its good to hear that at least he shows some manners, respect and
professionalism outside of newsgroups/forums.
I couldn't imagine he's have any work if his professional manner were
anything like what it is here.
--
Jeckyl
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>> Um, no. He's written a few tutorials for me and they were actually
Well I'm not entirely a ball of sunshine and kittens in the
"professional" world though. I consider myself an artist, not a
professional, as such I can have a very low tolerance for beuracracy,
stupidity and pointlessness. I won't hesitate to drop a client at the
drop of a hat if I start to think they're wasting my
time/talent/skill. If you're professional with me I'll be
professional with you, but if you start retarding about, missing
deadlines, coming up short on whatever it is you need to be
contributing to the project to make it happen...yeah...find someone
else, cause I don't waste the fuckin effort on wishy washy clients who
can't even figure out where they're at, let alone what they want. In
other words, I'm fair...but I'm tough.
A mindset I picked up from my "mentor", Ken Beasley...he didn't so
much teach me about computers so much as he taught me how to teach
myself about computer tech, whilst giving me the tools, equipment and
environment in which to learn. I was made a technical coordinator for
the school district by the 10th grade and very quickly learned the
business end of the computer world as well as the technical end. Our
dristrict, despite being in the middle of fucking nowhere, wound up
being one of the most technologically advanced schools in the state.
Mostly because we learned very quickly how to wheel and deal with
large corporations, who would donate tons of "old" computer equipment
to us as a tax write off. Some of it worked, some of it didn't, so I
made it my primary job at the time to strip everything apart down to
its basic components, then tested every individual piece of equipment,
organized them, inventoried and then set to work building machine
after machine, constantly upgrading older models, building an entire
network from scratch, setting up teacher email, computerized
attendance tracking, video conferencing (mostly we just used that for
fun), websites, the school newspaper and all sorts of other goodies
and hoo ha. Within a year we were running our own technology fair.
Good times. ^_^
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Jeckyl
It sounds like it would have been exciting times for you back then.
--
Jeckyl
Elan Magavi
"Onideus Mad Hatter" <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote in message
news:ki9ss2tv6vhqsj0ft...@4ax.com...
My friend your work is amatuer at best.. and very poor at worst. You were
gloating about the same horrid images two years ago. It is, simply horrible.
Max Grrl
Hatter <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
You suck!!! Do you have ANY fucking idea how something like that would
have fucking curled my toes?! MY school didn't get to the fucking
technological age until AFTER I graduated (two fucking years no
less!!). Now, though, my high school's won several awards for it's
(yes) DESIGN department. : )
Tell me you didn't share that without the express purpose of bragging
and rubbing my nose in it. : )
They actually teach basic graphic design now. Unfort, they treat it
like a "vocational" class like woodshop or auto hobby shop. : /
>
> --
>
> Onideus Mad Hatter
> mhm น x น
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
<El...@nomailnospam.com> wrote:
>My friend your work is amatuer at be<COCK SLAP>
Which work, specifically? Oh and please, do try and formulate enough
NOT stupid to actually attempt an ARGUMENT to back up your fuckwitted
little failed attempt at blindly lashing out at me.
While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and post some of YOUR OWN
work...just so we can all get a good idea of what your basis of
comparison is. `, )
Henry Schmidt
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:28:56 GMT, "Elan Magavi"
> <El...@nomailnospam.com> wrote:
>
>> My friend your work is amatuer at be<COCK SLAP>
>
Diaperboi are you now slurping on Magavi c0cks? Is that your new
favorite c0ckflavor of the moment?
How many c0cks will it take to satisfy your c0ck cravings? First you go
after mine, my doggy's, malscribetard's, K-man's, Uncle Zed's, Mind
Brain's, DevMcKinHole's and now Magavi's.
You are a str8 up easy c0ckslurping slut.
Onideus Mad Hatter
<schm...@nottelling.nope> wrote:
>Dia<COCK SLAP>
Sorry Porchy, but you've been replaced already:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/Porchy/
Henry Schmidt
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 05:02:34 GMT, Henry Schmidt
> <schm...@nottelling.nope> wrote:
>
>> Dia<COCK SLAP>
>
Diaperboi is going jizz crazy again. I think my doggy squirted too
violently into his mouth.
Diaperboi, what is your favorite c0ck flavor? MOnkey? Doggy? Mindbrain?
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>Show me a similar example of that effect. Wait, no, even better, show
>me YOUR OWN example of that effect. Yeah...fail...and hey, feel bad
>about it too. ^_^
I did not make such an effect. Nor do I tend to do so. But that does not
mean I can have an opinion about your work :-)
[snip]
>>That may be, but from what I remember, the edit was long and boring, and
>>didn't tell anything.
>
>Well it's a bit genre specific, if yer a fan of the show(s) then
>you'll get all the references and it'll make more sense. In this case
>though I'm presenting them merely from a technical standpoint, not
>from a subjective critique seeking one.
Well, I give you that one.
[...]
>My endeavors tend to revolve around those who most enjoy my work and
>who are most vocal about it. As far as the Alice dress
>recolor...well...there didn't seem to be much interest in it and the
>other side couldn't even sum up the balls to produce their own using
>their supposed magixal plugin.
I was one of those with the "magixal plugins". Tell you what, in two months
it's time for the NAB again (http://www.nabshow.com/). So, make you way to
Las Vegas, and make sure you go past the Autodesk-booth. You'll see with
your own eyes that all your manual labour was for nought, as their demo's
whill show you how this recolouring can be done very easily.
[...]
>Hey, I finally managed to get a negative critique on the new logo!
>Granted it's a lil dimwitted and there doesn't seem to be any
>motivation behind it outside of some failing effort at verbal
>retribution...but uh...well it's nice to know I haven't completely
>hammered out perfection to the point of completely shutting up all the
>Hatter Addicts and wannabe Hatter Addicts. I tell ya what, the scary
>thing is that even acting like a complete asshole isn't enough
>anymore. I mean it used to be that's all I had to do to garner a
>negative response to my work, but now...yeah...a lot of times I'll
>rack up praise even from peeps I verbally hammer the fuck into the
>wall. I think it's a good gauge of my skill though and I'm looking
>forward to pushing myself to even higher levels this year.
What you need to understand that _your_ opinion about your work is not
important. As a potential client/employer, _I_ am the one who needs to
start drooling because your work is so special. But frankly, the bobbing
text doesn't really do it for me. It's so basic. You may get a boner out of
it, but I don't. Not even viagra would help me.
But the good thing is you see progres in your work. Plenty of people hit a
wal, and don't move forward anymore. But as long as you feel you are, keep
up the practising, and who knows where ou'll be in a couple of years :-)
--
Jeckyl
>>rack up praise even from peeps I verbally hammer the fuck into the
I think it says more about the professionalism and good nature of those poor
people you seem to take such joy in trying to hammer .. that they are honest
and forthright enough to give you an unbiased opinion on your work, without
all the hammering that you tend to give others.
Mind you .. I've noticed that you've actually started to be almost nice to
me now :) Maybe I should count myself honored :)
--
Jeckyl
Elan Magavi
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:28:56 GMT, "Elan Magavi"
> <El...@nomailnospam.com> wrote:
>
>>My friend your work is amatuer at be<COCK SLAP>
>
> Which work, specifically?
ALL OF IT. You are a rank amateur.
>Oh and please, do try and formulate enough
> NOT stupid to actually attempt an ARGUMENT to back up your fuckwitted
> little failed attempt at blindly lashing out at me.
>
> While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and post some of YOUR OWN
> work...just so we can all get a good idea of what your basis of
> comparison is. `, )
Comparing your works to ANYTHING. You lose. I would not stoop so low as to
compare my work to the crap you posted and are still bragging about years
later. My friend if you spent as much time working as you do blowing terds
your work may get better. But I sincerely doubt you have the talent to go
much beyond the crap you have done.
Elan Magavi
"Jeckyl" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12t02c4...@corp.supernews.com...
>> >a lot of times I'll
>>>rack up praise even from peeps I verbally hammer the fuck into the
>>>wall. I think it's a good gauge of my skill though.
> Mind you .. I've noticed that you've actually started to be almost nice to
> me now :) Maybe I should count myself honored :)
As honored as you would be if you stepped in someone else's shit.
> --
> Jeckyl
>
>
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
>>Show me a similar example of that effect. Wait, no, even better, show
>>me YOUR OWN example of that effect. Yeah...fail...and hey, feel bad
>>about it too. ^_^
>I did not make such an effect. Nor do I tend to do so.
You confuse "won't" with "can't".
>But that does not mean I can have an opinion about your work :-)
LOL, you're right, you can't have an opinion. You CAN however have a
NONpinion if you like...although it'd be an exercise in pointless
stupidity at best.
>>My endeavors tend to revolve around those who most enjoy my work and
>>who are most vocal about it. As far as the Alice dress
>>recolor...well...there didn't seem to be much interest in it and the
>>other side couldn't even sum up the balls to produce their own using
>>their supposed magixal plugin.
>I was one of those with the "magixal plugins". Tell you what, in two months
>it's time for the NAB again (http://www.nabshow.com/). So, make you way to
>Las Vegas, and make sure you go past the Autodesk-booth. You'll see with
>your own eyes that all your manual labour was for nought, as their demo's
>whill show you how this recolouring can be done very easily.
Right...with their PREMADE demos...right...that none of you seem to be
able to reproduce...right...tell me...are you REALLY that fuckin
retarded? You sound like the kind of dribbling idiot who watches
those "As Seen On TV" ads and actually has the stupidity to think that
the product is going to work even half as good as the way it's being
presented under CONTROLLED circumstances.
>>Hey, I finally managed to get a negative critique on the new logo!
>>Granted it's a lil dimwitted and there doesn't seem to be any
>>motivation behind it outside of some failing effort at verbal
>>retribution...but uh...well it's nice to know I haven't completely
>>hammered out perfection to the point of completely shutting up all the
>>Hatter Addicts and wannabe Hatter Addicts. I tell ya what, the scary
>>thing is that even acting like a complete asshole isn't enough
>>anymore. I mean it used to be that's all I had to do to garner a
>>negative response to my work, but now...yeah...a lot of times I'll
>>rack up praise even from peeps I verbally hammer the fuck into the
>>wall. I think it's a good gauge of my skill though and I'm looking
>>forward to pushing myself to even higher levels this year.
>What you need to understand that _your_ opinion about your work is not
>important.
LOL, actually it's the most important thing there is. If I didn't
care about my work, nor the quality...well it would CERTAINLY reflect
itself in the work, regardless of your dribbling little NONpinions.
>As a potential client/employer, _I_ am the one who needs to
>start drooling because your work is so special. But frankly, the bobbing
>text doesn't really do it for me. It's so basic. You may get a boner out of
>it, but I don't. Not even viagra would help me.
Actually your reaction is the point. I was TRYING to go for subtlety.
And it is VERY often the NONpinion of n00bs that a lot of what they
see, effects wise, is some incredibly easy process that has more to do
with buying software or magixal plugins than it does about actual
skill or ingenuity. These froups however are NOT for the point of
LOOKING FOR CLIENTS, they're about THE TECHNICAL MERIT, ANALYSIS and
DISCUSSION of techniques, examples, works, etc. So to me, in THESE
FROUPS if you don't find the work to be high end or noteworthy...it's
because YOU ARE A NOOB and quite frankly, you don't ~really~
belong...at least not in the discussion. If you wanna sit on the
sidelines and keep yer fuckin mouth shut while those with the actual
skill wanna hammer it out, hey, that's fine...but don't be so
fuckwitted as to inflict your primate like understanding of video
editing and graphic design onto those of us professionals and artists
who are trying to have a "grown up" discussion. If I ask for PERSONAL
critiques that's one thing, but if I don't, that means I'm looking for
TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, in which case you should just keep your fuckin
mouth shut, n00b.
>But the good thing is you see progres in your work. Plenty of people hit a
>wal, and don't move forward anymore. But as long as you feel you are, keep
>up the practising, and who knows where ou'll be in a couple of years :-)
No matter where I am, it'll always be beyond your level of
understanding.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Onideus Mad Hatter
<El...@nomailnospam.com> wrote:
>>>My friend your work is amatuer at be<COCK SLAP>
>> Which work, specifically?
>ALL OF IT. You are a rank amateur.
Your rank amateur attempts at verbal retribution are as laughable as
your pissy little fit throwing backpedal attempt.
>>Oh and please, do try and formulate enough
>> NOT stupid to actually attempt an ARGUMENT to back up your fuckwitted
>> little failed attempt at blindly lashing out at me.
>>
>> While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and post some of YOUR OWN
>> work...just so we can all get a good idea of what your basis of
>> comparison is. `, )
>Comparing your works to ANYTHING. You lose. I would not stoop so low as to
>compare my work to the crap you posted and are still bragging about years
>later. My friend if you spent as much time working as you do blowing terds
>your work may get better. But I sincerely doubt you have the talent to go
>much beyond the crap you have done.
That's a ~lovely~ backpedal, Junior. But these facts still remain:
1. You don't have any websites of your own to put up for comparison.
2. You have no actual arguments behind your accusations.
3. My sites collectively rack up MILLIONS of hits and just in the past
three months my Alexia rating has shot up over 900%.
4. For every lame witted attempt at trying to say my sites are no good
I can post links to ten that say otherwise (and coincidentally those
people actually have REASONS for liking them).
5. You are a VERY angry little snit filled tweenage muppet fuck.
6. Every time you post I laugh, because I know how much my incredible
level skill bothers the fuck out of you, especially when I throw out a
good level of egoism and bragging along with it.
7. You have nothing.
8 You ARE nothing.
9. Put it down.
10. You're done.
11. It's time for bed.
*Hatter takes lil Elan by the hand, changes her wet diaper and put her
in her crib for a much needed nap.*
I think maybe you'll be a bit less fussy after you have a nap, child.
^_^
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ą x ą
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>You confuse "won't" with "can't".
You seem to know people without knowing them. Interesting... :-)
>>But that does not mean I can have an opinion about your work :-)
>
>LOL, you're right, you can't have an opinion. You CAN however have a
>NONpinion if you like...although it'd be an exercise in pointless
>stupidity at best.
Good. If you can't stand any criticism about your work, you have to realise
you will never excel in your work, as you will never work out how to
improve it.
>>I was one of those with the "magixal plugins". Tell you what, in two months
>>it's time for the NAB again (http://www.nabshow.com/). So, make you way to
>>Las Vegas, and make sure you go past the Autodesk-booth. You'll see with
>>your own eyes that all your manual labour was for nought, as their demo's
>>whill show you how this recolouring can be done very easily.
>
>Right...with their PREMADE demos...right...that none of you seem to be
>able to reproduce...right...tell me...are you REALLY that fuckin
>retarded? You sound like the kind of dribbling idiot who watches
>those "As Seen On TV" ads and actually has the stupidity to think that
>the product is going to work even half as good as the way it's being
>presented under CONTROLLED circumstances.
You watch too much disclaimers with the tvc's ;-) A trained eye can see if
demo is a difficult one or not.
[...]
>>What you need to understand that _your_ opinion about your work is not
>>important.
>
>LOL, actually it's the most important thing there is. If I didn't
>care about my work, nor the quality...well it would CERTAINLY reflect
>itself in the work, regardless of your dribbling little NONpinions.
Of course you can have an opinion about your own work, but your own opinion
is NOT important when it comes to judging your work compared to that of
your peers.
[...]
>Actually your reaction is the point. I was TRYING to go for subtlety.
>And it is VERY often the NONpinion of n00bs that a lot of what they
>see, effects wise, is some incredibly easy process that has more to do
>with buying software or magixal plugins than it does about actual
>skill or ingenuity. These froups however are NOT for the point of
>LOOKING FOR CLIENTS, they're about THE TECHNICAL MERIT, ANALYSIS and
>DISCUSSION of techniques, examples, works, etc. So to me, in THESE
>FROUPS if you don't find the work to be high end or noteworthy...it's
>because YOU ARE A NOOB and quite frankly, you don't ~really~
>belong...at least not in the discussion. If you wanna sit on the
>sidelines and keep yer fuckin mouth shut while those with the actual
>skill wanna hammer it out, hey, that's fine...but don't be so
>fuckwitted as to inflict your primate like understanding of video
>editing and graphic design onto those of us professionals and artists
>who are trying to have a "grown up" discussion. If I ask for PERSONAL
>critiques that's one thing, but if I don't, that means I'm looking for
>TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, in which case you should just keep your fuckin
>mouth shut, n00b.
Well, there is your problem. I will say this in words of your choice so you
will understand it better: your work is very mediocre. You wish you were a
professional, but you are not. If you seriously want to discuss your work,
you should first work on the way you discuss your work. Calling your peers
names, will quickly put them off, and you will stay blind, and never learn.
Really, a professional won't be interested in teaching you anything,
because of the way you talk.
>No matter where I am, it'll always be beyond your level of
>understanding.
Yep, you understand yourself very well: five steps beyond me :-))
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
Oh, oh, hey check this out, I woke up this morning and I'm PSYCHIC!
Okay, hang on...*channels psychic energy*...I predict...that lil Ass
Huffer...is gonna run the fuck at the mouth, won't actually post ANY
kind of arguments to back up ANY of his fuckwitted claims and will
utterly FAIL to provide ANY proof of his nonexistent skill!
^_^
>>You confuse "won't" with "can't".
>You seem to know people without knowing them. Interesting... :-)
Yup, I'm psychic now. I have gaydar too.
*Hatter waves his hand over Ass Huffer's stubby little head*
You seem to be...73% homosexual.
>>>But that does not mean I can have an opinion about your work :-)
>>LOL, you're right, you can't have an opinion. You CAN however have a
>>NONpinion if you like...although it'd be an exercise in pointless
>>stupidity at best.
>Good.
Well, it's nice to see you agree that your opinion is as worthless as
the shit I wiped from my ass this morning.
>If you can't stand any criticism about your work, you have to realise
>you will never excel in your work, as you will never work out how to
>improve it.
Well you be sure and let me know when you manage to find someone who
actually has the capability and comprehension to critique one of my
sites, mmmkay Ass Huffer? In the mean time I suppose you can keep
retarding off NONpinions based on who pissed in yer online Cheerios
and whether or not yer on the rag. You need a tampon, Marty? Cause I
bet Mara will give you one if you ask her.
>>Right...with their PREMADE demos...right...that none of you seem to be
>>able to reproduce...right...tell me...are you REALLY that fuckin
>>retarded? You sound like the kind of dribbling idiot who watches
>>those "As Seen On TV" ads and actually has the stupidity to think that
>>the product is going to work even half as good as the way it's being
>>presented under CONTROLLED circumstances.
>You watch too much disclaimers with the tvc's ;-) A trained eye can see if
>demo is a difficult one or not.
Is this the same "trained eye" that can't even reproduce the same
results...AT ALL, on his own? Or are you speaking about the imaginary
lurker supporting you in email? Does he have the "trained eye"? Is
it like a ninjitsu move or something? Is it like...one must cross the
lake of fire and climb to the top of the great mountain and face the
ice weasels before j00 can mastar teh "trained eye"...snatch the
pebble from my hand, little grasshopper.
Or are you simply pulling shit out of yer ass again? Wait, wait, let
me use my psychic powers and find out.
*waves hand over Ass Huffer's head*
*suddenly starts beating Ass Huffer the fuck over the head whilst
screaming "WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING STUPID!"*
...yup, I was right, pulling shit out yer ass.
>>LOL, actually it's the most important thing there is. If I didn't
>>care about my work, nor the quality...well it would CERTAINLY reflect
>>itself in the work, regardless of your dribbling little NONpinions.
>Of course you can have an opinion about your own work, but your own opinion
>is NOT important when it comes to judging your work compared to that of
>your peers.
...now ya see, that reason alone is why you are, and always will be, a
FAILED little poser n00b.job wholly incapable of producing ANYTHING.
I mean the very idea of basing the entire worth of your effort on
random fuckin assholes is just...absolutely fucking retarded at best.
Here's a free cl00 for ya, Bumbles...this shit is an art, and REAL
artists don't make art for other people, THEY MAKE IT FOR
THEMSELVES...and if some other people pass along and they like it too,
hey, all the better. But NO REAL ARTIST would take the effort to try
and cater their creative efforts to the drooling, little, group think,
sheeple, bitch whiners who hate their work.
>[...]
>>Actually your reaction is the point. I was TRYING to go for subtlety.
>>And it is VERY often the NONpinion of n00bs that a lot of what they
>>see, effects wise, is some incredibly easy process that has more to do
>>with buying software or magixal plugins than it does about actual
>>skill or ingenuity. These froups however are NOT for the point of
>>LOOKING FOR CLIENTS, they're about THE TECHNICAL MERIT, ANALYSIS and
>>DISCUSSION of techniques, examples, works, etc. So to me, in THESE
>>FROUPS if you don't find the work to be high end or noteworthy...it's
>>because YOU ARE A NOOB and quite frankly, you don't ~really~
>>belong...at least not in the discussion. If you wanna sit on the
>>sidelines and keep yer fuckin mouth shut while those with the actual
>>skill wanna hammer it out, hey, that's fine...but don't be so
>>fuckwitted as to inflict your primate like understanding of video
>>editing and graphic design onto those of us professionals and artists
>>who are trying to have a "grown up" discussion. If I ask for PERSONAL
>>critiques that's one thing, but if I don't, that means I'm looking for
>>TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, in which case you should just keep your fuckin
>>mouth shut, n00b.
>Well, there is your problem. I will say this in words of your choice so you
>will understand it better: your work is very mediocre.
See, again, there's you with a drooling little accusation, a random
NONpinion, presented it a COMPLETELY subjective and inconsequential
manner, with NO basis of comparison AT ALL...and yer basically having
a snit cause, well damn...I just can't seem to fucking care. o_O
*shrugs*
It's like, Oooo...the retard whose produced all of...NOTHING...pops
the fuck up on Usenet and whines that my sites are "mediocre". Here's
a free cl00 for ya, Ass Huffer...the NINE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT
INCREASE in my Alexia stats over the past three months seem to pretty
much just bitch slap you right the fuck across the face with how
retarded you are. Boy that sure must be a bitch, innt?
And really, if you think THIS:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
...yeah...I'd say it's pretty obvious that yer just seekin a lil bit
of Hatter retribution there, Kiddo. My advice...try not to be so
fuckin transparent about it, mmmkay?
>You wish you were a professional, but you are not.
No, actually I'm an artist, not a professional, guess ya musta just
missed my .sig there, Bumbles.
>If you seriously want to discuss your work,
>you should first work on the way you discuss your work.
Yeah, if I act really nice and humble then I can get ALL SORTS of ass
slurping and circle jerking good fun!
Sorry kiddo, but unlike you I'm not some failed little ego, so I
really don't require any senseless slurpage. I mean essentially what
you're trying to whine is that if I'm nice to you, you'll respond
with:
"Your site looks great!"
Instead of:
"Your site looks mediocre."
...free cl00, my lil failure, BOTH THOSE NONPINIONS ARE WORTHLESS!
>Calling your peers names, will quickly put them off, and you will stay
>blind, and never learn.
WRONG!
By being egotistical and attackful I can push people into a corner and
force them into an adversarial, combative and offensive stance. At
that point, the target will do EVERYTHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN to try and
"get back" or "show up" the person. Now here's the neat trick, Ass
Huffer...those with no level of skill, those who just run the fuck at
the mouth, those like yourself...when YOUR pushed into a corner...you
can't counter with fuck all more than, "Your site is mediocre."
Where as someone of *MY* level of skill and expertise...well...this is
what happens when *I* get pushed into a corner:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.2600/msg/4b47f3ee736bd86a
He, he, he...now don't you wish you had that ability? Don't you wish
you actually had the knowledge and intelligence to rip apart my sites
based on PURE TECHNICAL FUNCTION, CAPABILITY and USABILITY...see if ya
had that ability...you woulda used it by now, Kiddo. Those with
skill, those like SpaceGirl and Jeckyl...they're ALWAYS quick to
hammer the hard facts in an argument.
And then you can use those UBER HARSH critiques to further your work
to a level that you would have NEVER been able to reach otherwise.
See when you piss someone off and corner them...well if they got the
skill, they're not just gonna critique yer sites, they're gonna
critique them at a GOD LEVEL form of expectation. Hell, I've hammered
some peeps so bad they've actually gone so far as to try and hold me
accountable for SINGLE PIXEL LEVEL ERRORS.
For a retard like you, you show up in some froup, lickin everyone's
ass and then you present your work...which at best garnishes a few
halfassed circle jerk compliments and then that's it...YOU DON'T LEARN
FROM THAT, you stupid fuckin poser. And since you're *SO* nice and
humble, well the REAL professionals are NOT even gonna bother with
you, why should they? I mean that'd be like beating up a retarded kid
fer fuck sake. At most yer gonna get a pat on the head, a cookie and
then you'll be passed along like lil Johnny Flunk who got As for
having a positive 'attitude'. Sorry kiddo, but yer very much apart of
the Barney generation and because of that you'll never be anything
more than a stupid poser.
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>Here's a free cl00 for ya, Bumbles...this shit is an art, and REAL
>artists don't make art for other people, THEY MAKE IT FOR
>THEMSELVES...and if some other people pass along and they like it too,
>hey, all the better. But NO REAL ARTIST would take the effort to try
>and cater their creative efforts to the drooling, little, group think,
>sheeple, bitch whiners who hate their work.
You call that bobbing-letter thing, art? I have seen paintings made by
monkeys and elephants which qualify for Art, but this is hardly worth to be
called art. Your work is the work of a beginner.
>It's like, Oooo...the retard whose produced all of...NOTHING...pops
>the fuck up on Usenet and whines that my sites are "mediocre". Here's
>a free cl00 for ya, Ass Huffer...the NINE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT
>INCREASE in my Alexia stats over the past three months seem to pretty
>much just bitch slap you right the fuck across the face with how
>retarded you are. Boy that sure must be a bitch, innt?
Of course you have an increase in hits, because you mention the link, and
everybody is curious and wants to know what the others are laughing or
quibling about. You don't need to be a rocket-scientist to figure out the
increase :-)
>And really, if you think THIS:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
>
>Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
>http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
*yawn* I can't stand the long download time. Besides, a professional
creates a website which is accesible to a multitude of browsers and
platforms. Limiting yourself to Flash is very amateurish, as you cut-out a
lot of potential people who might watch your site.
>>You wish you were a professional, but you are not.
>
>No, actually I'm an artist, not a professional, guess ya musta just
>missed my .sig there, Bumbles.
Ah well, many great artist was recognized after their death....
>>If you seriously want to discuss your work,
>>you should first work on the way you discuss your work.
>
>Yeah, if I act really nice and humble then I can get ALL SORTS of ass
>slurping and circle jerking good fun!
>
>Sorry kiddo, but unlike you I'm not some failed little ego, so I
>really don't require any senseless slurpage. I mean essentially what
>you're trying to whine is that if I'm nice to you, you'll respond
>with:
>
>"Your site looks great!"
>
>Instead of:
>
>"Your site looks mediocre."
>
>...free cl00, my lil failure, BOTH THOSE NONPINIONS ARE WORTHLESS!
No, you misunderstand me. If you're work is mediocre, I will tell you
regardlesly, but if you're a nice person, I'll tell you why I think it is.
Can't be bothered to type it out now :-)
>>Calling your peers names, will quickly put them off, and you will stay
>>blind, and never learn.
>
>WRONG!
>
>By being egotistical and attackful I can push people into a corner and
>force them into an adversarial,
I see you have never ventured out in forums where professionals attend.
People with an attitude like your's won't last long, and you won't
definetly be fed information to improve your work.
>He, he, he...now don't you wish you had that ability? Don't you wish
>you actually had the knowledge and intelligence to rip apart my sites
>based on PURE TECHNICAL FUNCTION, CAPABILITY and USABILITY...see if ya
>had that ability...you woulda used it by now, Kiddo. Those with
>skill, those like SpaceGirl and Jeckyl...they're ALWAYS quick to
>hammer the hard facts in an argument.
Well, I just gave you two reasons why the Scarebears are not that great.
>For a retard like you, you show up in some froup, lickin everyone's
>ass and then you present your work...which at best garnishes a few
>halfassed circle jerk compliments and then that's it...YOU DON'T LEARN
>FROM THAT,
You are among the wrong kind of people if they act like that. My work get's
seriously criticised, and I love to hear comments, good or bad, because I
learn from all of them. You need to get out of the door a bit, and talk
with real people about your work. Fuming behind your keyboard won't really
do it. You will learn nothing.
Fred Doyle
"Martin Heffels" <goo...@flikken.net> wrote
> You call that bobbing-letter thing, art? I have seen paintings made by
> monkeys and elephants which qualify for Art, but this is hardly worth to
> be
> called art. Your work is the work of a beginner.
>
What I don't get is why people feel a need to convince him that he is no
artist. I've never seen him involvedin a Usenet conversation about art,
especially professional art, i.e. art that allows you to earn a living,
where at some point, he didn't reveal himself to be completely clueless.
If he wants to make a fool of himself, get out of the way. He's good at
playing the fool, and degenerate into ad hominim attacks. Do you believe
what he writes?
Fred Doyle
Martin Heffels
wrote:
>Do you believe what he writes?
No. So you say it's a waste of my time trying to convince him?
Fred Doyle
"Martin Heffels" <goo...@flikken.net> wrote in message
news:enh3t2ti7s0h8lnjh...@4ax.com...
Doesn't his posting history prove that? Some people CAN'T learn or be
convinced.
Fred Doyle
Fred Doyle
"Jeremy Shank" <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote
> When you have bad work you don't post it out there for
> every one to see and tell them why it is the greatest thing ever.
Sure you do, if you want to inhibit criticism by making people think it is a
waste of time to offer criticism. If that doesn't work, you attack the
critic. Sound familiar?
Fred Doyle
Martin Heffels
wrote:
>Doesn't his posting history prove that? Some people CAN'T learn or be
>convinced.
Itcertainly does. Maybe he thinks that he can become great by discarding
every criticism. But that won't really work, since a lot of people have the
attention-span of of a fly, so you will really have to stand out with your
work. Hatter looks like he re-invented the wheel, and talks proudly about
it how good he is for inventing the wheel. But _we_ have seen the wheel
before already....
PerfectReign
chisel and etched in the wall:
>>And really, if you think THIS:
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
>>
>>Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
>>http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
>
> *yawn* I can't stand the long download time. Besides, a professional
> creates a website which is accesible to a multitude of browsers and
> platforms. Limiting yourself to Flash is very amateurish, as you cut-out a
> lot of potential people who might watch your site.
Though I don't like having Flash either, please tell me from whom it
limits? AFAIK, pretty much any browser can run Flash, with the possible
exception of Lynx.
Mattie may be an ass, but it IS his website and he can do whatever the
fuck he wants on it.
>
>>For a retard like you, you show up in some froup, lickin everyone's ass
>>and then you present your work...which at best garnishes a few halfassed
>>circle jerk compliments and then that's it...YOU DON'T LEARN FROM THAT,
>
> You are among the wrong kind of people if they act like that. My work
> get's seriously criticised,
Like your grammar?
> and I love to hear comments, good or bad, because
> I learn from all of them. You need to get out of the door a bit, and
> talk with real people about your work. Fuming behind your keyboard won't
> really do it. You will learn nothing.
--
kai
Free Compean and Ramos
http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46
Martin Heffels
<perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>Though I don't like having Flash either, please tell me from whom it
>limits? AFAIK, pretty much any browser can run Flash, with the possible
>exception of Lynx.
The problem is that not everybody wants to use Flash, and consider it evil.
That means you leave out the people who prefer HTML and the people with
visual disabilities, because the latter can't do anything with a
Flash-based website.
>Mattie may be an ass, but it IS his website and he can do whatever the
>fuck he wants on it.
Of course he can. But a good webdesigner keeps designing their website with
different ways of accessing it, in mind. It's "website design basics 101".
PerfectReign
chisel and etched in the wall:
> On 13 Feb 2007 16:19:11 GMT, PerfectReign
> <perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>
>>Though I don't like having Flash either, please tell me from whom it
>>limits? AFAIK, pretty much any browser can run Flash, with the possible
>>exception of Lynx.
>
> The problem is that not everybody wants to use Flash, and consider it
> evi
That - for the most part - includes me. However, it IS his choice, and to
say bad things about it is simply poor taste on your end.
> That means you leave out the people who prefer HTML and the people
> with visual disabilities, because the latter can't do anything with a
> Flash-based website.
Yeah, well, too bad. Those with visual disabilities wouldn't be able to
enjoy the experience. What percentage of people are we talking about?
Less than 1%. (My wife used to work with VI children.)
>
>>Mattie may be an ass, but it IS his website and he can do whatever the
>>fuck he wants on it.
>
> Of course he can. But a good webdesigner keeps designing their website
> with different ways of accessing it, in mind. It's "website design
> basics 101".
If one wants to. Besides - web design is so....90s. Who wants to design a
site these days, anyway? Get a template, slap it up. The really slick
stuff takes place behind the scenes.
As I always say, THIS is my idea of a great website...
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/
Max Grrl
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
> On 13 Feb 2007 16:19:11 GMT, PerfectReign
> <perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>
> >Though I don't like having Flash either, please tell me from whom it
> >limits? AFAIK, pretty much any browser can run Flash, with the possible
> >exception of Lynx.
>
> The problem is that not everybody wants to use Flash, and consider it evil.
> That means you leave out the people who prefer HTML and the people with
> visual disabilities, because the latter can't do anything with a
> Flash-based website.
Your point is more than valid. While I personally enjoy Flash sites
for the most part, it's not customizable for those with vision
problems, AKA poor vision, and color blindness (there are more that
suffer from that than most think). HTML is always the best bet for
satisfying a larger audience.
Too, since Flash enables designers to work outside of the accepted
norms in terms of navigation (especially) and content, using Flash runs
the risk of alienating a spectrum of audience who doesn't have much
experience (or a lack of attention span) in actually searching for
content.
And before anyone says "Well that kind of person is stupid," bear in
mind that not everyone is as savvy as you . . . and if you're looking
for a wide audience with your site, you *have* to consider the "lowest
common denominator" or else, there's no point. Sort of like selling
cars and saying that you'll only sell to people who are over 6 feet
tall. If you alienate your potential clients before they even walk in
the door, how well can you *really* sell? And how will you support your
site?
>
> >Mattie may be an ass, but it IS his website and he can do whatever the
> >fuck he wants on it.
>
> Of course he can. But a good webdesigner keeps designing their website with
> different ways of accessing it, in mind. It's "website design basics 101".
But that's if the main purpose is to sell something. In cases where
it's for fun, for one's own knowledge advancement, or just for
something to do, it doesn't really matter. It can be however that
person wants it to be. Frankly, I think Hat (since I believe the
discussion is really about him and site), does it for *him* and no one
else.
--
Max Grrl
---
"When he pulled it out you tackled me" Porchmonkey4Life admits he's been
sucking Snarky's cock AGAIN in response to my question "Are you done
"effortlessly" sucking his cock yet?" o_O
MID: <GvExh.50229$WI6.24306@trnddc04>
"Does my doggie's c0ck taste better than yours?" Porchy admits sucking Hat's
cock!! o_O
MID: <RCWxh.2254$384.981@trnddc05>
"Unlike you my brain in his my head." Porchy regales Rev with his blinding
intellect in MID: <K43zh.120$Aa5.66@trnddc01>
Martin Heffels
<perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>That - for the most part - includes me. However, it IS his choice, and to
>say bad things about it is simply poor taste on your end.
So you say that criticism is not allowed then? Only to accept his choice
because it is _his_ choice?
>
>> That means you leave out the people who prefer HTML and the people
>> with visual disabilities, because the latter can't do anything with a
>> Flash-based website.
>
>Yeah, well, too bad. Those with visual disabilities wouldn't be able to
>enjoy the experience. What percentage of people are we talking about?
>Less than 1%. (My wife used to work with VI children.)
7% of the male population in the US has problems with red/green, and 0.4%
of the females. If you want to know a bit how they see colours:
http://www.iamcal.com/toys/colors/
Te core idea of HTML is that the end-user can determine how a page looks
like on his/her screen, to accomodate to visual imparities. This you take
away completely with Flash. And since more and more Flash is used, more and
more people are barred accessing information.
>As I always say, THIS is my idea of a great website...
>
>http://losangeles.craigslist.org/
That one is easy to navigate :-)
Martin Heffels
>But that's if the main purpose is to sell something. In cases where
>it's for fun, for one's own knowledge advancement, or just for
>something to do, it doesn't really matter. It can be however that
>person wants it to be. Frankly, I think Hat (since I believe the
>discussion is really about him and site), does it for *him* and no one
>else.
It does matter, even if the site is for fun. The only good use for Flash is
slideshows.
-m-
PerfectReign
chisel and etched in the wall:
> On 13 Feb 2007 17:05:55 GMT, PerfectReign
> <perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>
>>That - for the most part - includes me. However, it IS his choice, and to
>>say bad things about it is simply poor taste on your end.
>
> So you say that criticism is not allowed then? Only to accept his choice
> because it is _his_ choice?
>
Yes.
If he were creating a website for the DMV or CIA or some other
three-letter acronym, then he must make it accessible and compliant.
Because he is making it for himself, we have no right to criticize. I'm
not saying you cannot do it, but he has just as much right to come back
and tell you to FOAD.
>>
>>> That means you leave out the people who prefer HTML and the people
>>> with visual disabilities, because the latter can't do anything with a
>>> Flash-based website.
>>
>>Yeah, well, too bad. Those with visual disabilities wouldn't be able to
>>enjoy the experience. What percentage of people are we talking about?
>>Less than 1%. (My wife used to work with VI children.)
>
> 7% of the male population in the US has problems with red/green, and
> 0.4% of the females. If you want to know a bit how they see colours:
> http://www.iamcal.com/toys/colors/
Check this out - look at my two fingers rubbing each other - it is the
world's smallest violin.
Again, if there is a need to provide accessibility, then fine. Because it
is a personal site, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
>
> Te core idea of HTML is that the end-user can determine how a page looks
> like on his/her screen, to accomodate to visual imparities. This you
> take away completely with Flash. And since more and more Flash is used,
> more and more people are barred accessing information.
>
>>As I always say, THIS is my idea of a great website...
>>
>>http://losangeles.craigslist.org/
>
> That one is easy to navigate :-)
Yeah, now I'm looking at diesel suburbans. There are three of 'em listed.
Hmmm....
Martin Heffels
<perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>If he were creating a website for the DMV or CIA or some other
>three-letter acronym, then he must make it accessible and compliant.
Yes, I understand that :-)
>Because he is making it for himself, we have no right to criticize. I'm
>not saying you cannot do it, but he has just as much right to come back
>and tell you to FOAD.
He _asks_ for criticism. He says "here, look at my yadayada-site, it is
great". Now that is an open invitation to criticism to me.....
>Again, if there is a need to provide accessibility, then fine. Because it
>is a personal site, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
Yesyesyes
Max Grrl
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
How so? Most art is "mere" self-expression. Only in rare cases is it
really meant for anything other than fun, enjoyment, and relaxation
(considering that there are likely more "paint-by-number" sets and "Bob
Ross how-to" books sold than actual working graphic artists).
A friend of mine paints - and quite badly - but for her, it is fun,
it's relaxing, and a better use of her time than just sitting about
watching TV. And she displays with pride, her paintings on her walls .
. .
So how are Flash sites for *fun* different? Because they are digital
rather than traditional media? Because they are open to the public?
Kind of reminds me of the old joke: A guy walks up to a gorgeous model
at a nudist colony and asks her for sex. She takes one look at his tiny
penis and says "Just who do you expect to pleasure with *that* little
thing." The guy smiles and says "Me."
Like his itty-bitty weenie, art is for many, just *fun* and the only
critic they're going to be concerned about is themselves.
And that's exactly what the *spirit* of art is about.
>
> -m-
Max Grrl
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
> On 13 Feb 2007 22:10:11 GMT, PerfectReign
> <perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>
> >If he were creating a website for the DMV or CIA or some other
> >three-letter acronym, then he must make it accessible and compliant.
>
> Yes, I understand that :-)
>
> >Because he is making it for himself, we have no right to criticize. I'm
> >not saying you cannot do it, but he has just as much right to come back
> >and tell you to FOAD.
>
> He _asks_ for criticism. He says "here, look at my yadayada-site, it is
> great". Now that is an open invitation to criticism to me.....
*sigh*
But negatively critiquing someone's art is tantamount to telling
someone their baby is fugly. You *can* do that, but it's not exactly
fair.
For one, because you as a critic (rather than the creator of the said
art) have *no* idea what was going on in the person's mind as they did
it. You have no idea what the person was *going* for.
And most artists *do* see the critic as the uneducated idiot, it's
true. But I think that's because they had the guts and initiative to DO
it in the first place, where typically the critic has not. Thus, if you
haven't "suffered", you have no cl00 on what art *is*. Also, so many
critics get hung up on trees not being green and brown . . . or horses
being oddly purple. Art is not always meant to be realistic. Art is not
always meant to be pretty. It's in, most cases, a statement.
My father is an artist and he always taught me that art is art for
art's sake - trying to critique the visual representation of what's in
another's mind is simply pointless unless you're renting the space,
too.
Now obviously, that's not the case in *commercial* arts. There, you're
distilling what's in the other person''s mind into a visual
representation of their psyche, business, editorial, et al. And if a
client wants you to illustrate in child-like fashion, a pig sitting on
the back of a donkey, you can say "What the hell?" but it's *STILL*
art.
>
> >Again, if there is a need to provide accessibility, then fine. Because it
> >is a personal site, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
>
> Yesyesyes
>
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
>>Here's a free cl00 for ya, Bumbles...this shit is an art, and REAL
>>artists don't make art for other people, THEY MAKE IT FOR
>>THEMSELVES...and if some other people pass along and they like it too,
>>hey, all the better. But NO REAL ARTIST would take the effort to try
>>and cater their creative efforts to the drooling, little, group think,
>>sheeple, bitch whiners who hate their work.
>You call that bobbing-letter thing, art? I have seen paintings made by
>monkeys and elephants which qualify for Art, but this is hardly worth to be
>called art. Your work is the work of a beginner.
...you just...you don't get it, do ya? I mean I go and verbally
hammer ya the fuck right into the wall and you STILL don't get it. Is
it something in the water that's making you so gawd awfully stupid or
what? How exactly is it that a person can be *SO* Jesus raping stupid
that they can't even figure out the difference between a NONPINION and
a CRITIQUE? Did you ride the short bus or something, Marty? Is that
the problem we're having here? Cause honestly, I just don't see how
we can proceed any further until you can figure out the difference
between jacking off random attempts at insulting and actually managing
to point out SPECIFIC problems with the site in regards to usability,
design, function, navigation, etc. Really, about the ONLY coherent
you could come up with in regards to my logo is that some people might
feel kinda sea sick lookin at it for a long time...but then it's
unlikely that they would go to my site simply to stare at my logo for
hours on end and again the animation is subtle enough that it's not
really going to be a bother.
Let's see...what else...oh you could try and nitpick about the
monochromatic color scheme I guess...that's a bit of a subjective
analysis though than objective one, although generally speaking being
able to use multiple colors in a way that remains pleasing shows a
higher level of skill...but on the other hand the more colors you add,
the greater the number of people who won't like the design as much
from a subjective view (at least that's what the research I've done
shows, not sure if anyone else has bothered to do any color taste
studies).
Now ya see there, Bumbles, you are *SO* gawd damn deficient that *I*
actually had to try and come up with reasons FOR YOU about how the
design may not be so good (from a technical standpoint). Now then,
maybe if you're feeling ~slightly~ less fuckin retarded you can try it
out too! Go on, Bumbles, let's see if you can do it!
>>It's like, Oooo...the retard whose produced all of...NOTHING...pops
>>the fuck up on Usenet and whines that my sites are "mediocre". Here's
>>a free cl00 for ya, Ass Huffer...the NINE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT
>>INCREASE in my Alexia stats over the past three months seem to pretty
>>much just bitch slap you right the fuck across the face with how
>>retarded you are. Boy that sure must be a bitch, innt?
>Of course you have an increase in hits, because you mention the link, and
>everybody is curious and wants to know what the others are laughing or
>quibling about. You don't need to be a rocket-scientist to figure out the
>increase :-)
The increase wouldn't be sustained if that were true, you bumbling
retard. People would look, move on and never come back. Besides
which, I only see a small handful of retarded jackasses whining about
my sites, just because you're the LOUDEST little fit throwing snits
doesn't mean that your jealousy induced hate rage is shared amongst
the millions of visitors going to my site...although you know...you
are so utterly fuckwitted, that I bet you ACTUALLY think that your
NONPinion is shared amongst millions.
The bottom line is that my sites generate more praise and respect than
they do whining and fit throwing from children like yourself. I
understand though, I mean about your jealousy, it must really burn you
up in side to be a talentless, unproducing little fuckwit and then to
have someone like me come along and rub yer idiot fuckin face in it.
>>And really, if you think THIS:
>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
>>
>>Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
>>http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
>*yawn* I can't stand the long download time.
Yeah the 6.2 seconds on the SLOWEST broadband connection, hoo boy,
*THAT* sure is a LONG time to wait for a site to load up.
Coincidentally, you stupid fucking retard, the official,
professionally created site...yeah, it actually LOADS SLOWER than
mine...by about 3 seconds. DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM!
It's that whole, "thinking" thing I believe you keep fucking yourself
up on.
>Besides, a professional
>creates a website which is accesible to a multitude of browsers and
>platforms. Limiting yourself to Flash is very amateurish, as you cut-out a
>lot of potential people who might watch your site.
WRONG!
Flash is *THE* most cross operating system and cross browser
compatible solution that exists PERIOD. You have got to be a fuckin
stupid ass retard to think that W3C deficiency comes anywhere the fuck
even close to contending against the level of cross compatibility that
you get with Flash. There's only ONE thing Flash won't work
on...Lynx...of course, neither will AJAX based sites either, so in
either even you would need a plain text fall back version for
that...less than 1% of the computing populous.
>>>You wish you were a professional, but you are not.
>>No, actually I'm an artist, not a professional, guess ya musta just
>>missed my .sig there, Bumbles.
>Ah well, many great artist was recognized after their death....
...who the fuck cares about recognition? Oh wait, yer the sorry
little piece of shit who bases his level of production on how much ass
slurpage you're getting, I forgot.
>>Yeah, if I act really nice and humble then I can get ALL SORTS of ass
>>slurping and circle jerking good fun!
>>
>>Sorry kiddo, but unlike you I'm not some failed little ego, so I
>>really don't require any senseless slurpage. I mean essentially what
>>you're trying to whine is that if I'm nice to you, you'll respond
>>with:
>>
>>"Your site looks great!"
>>
>>Instead of:
>>
>>"Your site looks mediocre."
>>
>>...free cl00, my lil failure, BOTH THOSE NONPINIONS ARE WORTHLESS!
>No, you misunderstand me. If you're work is mediocre, I will tell you
>regardlesly, but if you're a nice person, I'll tell you why I think it is.
>Can't be bothered to type it out now :-)
Uh oh, backpedal, LOOK OUT! Oh hey, I know you can't be bothered to
prove that you're not a raving fuckin loony bin retard, but uh, maybe
you can be bothered to froth at the mouth in stupid for at least
another 6 or 7 posts...you know, LIKE YOU ALREADY HAVE BEEN. LOL...I
mean REALLY, you can be bothered to run the fuck at the mouth and
drool like a retard but you can't be bothered to prove that you're not
just some stupid fuckin poser? How does THAT makes sense? I think
you best bring that lil backpedal of yers back to the drawing board,
Kiddo, cause it's gonna need some work.
>>>Calling your peers names, will quickly put them off, and you will stay
>>>blind, and never learn.
>>WRONG!
>>
>>By being egotistical and attackful I can push people into a corner and
>>force them into an adversarial,
>I see you have never ventured out in forums where professionals attend.
Oh, do share, Retardo, just where *ARE* these "professional" forums.
*shudder* Boy the Internet sure is serious business in those
"professional" forums I guess, huh Bumbles?
>People with an attitude like your's won't last long, and you won't
>definetly be fed information to improve your work.
Pffft, I can improve my work on my own, I don't need deficients with
lesser skill than me to snit about how jealous they are (which is what
you're doing). Oh hey, thanks for admitting you're not a professional
though. See, that wasn't so hard, now was it?
>>He, he, he...now don't you wish you had that ability? Don't you wish
>>you actually had the knowledge and intelligence to rip apart my sites
>>based on PURE TECHNICAL FUNCTION, CAPABILITY and USABILITY...see if ya
>>had that ability...you woulda used it by now, Kiddo. Those with
>>skill, those like SpaceGirl and Jeckyl...they're ALWAYS quick to
>>hammer the hard facts in an argument.
>Well, I just gave you two reasons why the Scarebears are not that great.
Yeah and both reasons you gave were outright LIES. My site loads
faster by an average of 2 to 3 seconds and Flash is *THE* most cross
compatible solution that currently exists. Obviously you're a college
flunkie, that means the extent of what you know doesn't go any farther
than what you slurped up in college. So every time something is
advanced or pushed forward...yeah...yer gonna get left just that much
farther behind everyone else. I mean if this 2003 you might have had
a point about the Flash thing...hell if it was 2006 you might even
have a point, but as of last September Flash is *THE* be all and end
all solution when used in conjunction with my LAMP FX web development
form. Basically a Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP backend with a Flash/XML
front end.
You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the post in the link I gave because I'm
fairly certain it touches on the whole superiority of Flash.
>>For a retard like you, you show up in some froup, lickin everyone's
>>ass and then you present your work...which at best garnishes a few
>>halfassed circle jerk compliments and then that's it...YOU DON'T LEARN
>>FROM THAT,
>You are among the wrong kind of people if they act like that. My work get's
>seriously criticised, and I love to hear comments, good or bad, because I
>learn from all of them. You need to get out of the door a bit, and talk
>with real people about your work. Fuming behind your keyboard won't really
>do it. You will learn nothing.
You HAVE nothing, so your NONpinion is completely worthless. Oh but
hey, keep pulling shit out of yer ass you little unproducing fuckwit.
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
>>Doesn't his posting history prove that? Some people CAN'T learn or be
>>convinced.
>Itcertainly does. Maybe he thinks that he can become great by discarding
>every criticism. But th<COCK SLAP>
Again Marty, you don't HAVE criticism, you have NONPINIONS. You have
randomly strung together invective adjectives that hold no purpose at
all outside of a FAILING effort to verbally ATTACK my work.
Coincidentally, there are people around here who ACTUALLY do have the
capability to critique my work and in the instances where they have, I
have DIRECTLY used their criticisms to improve upon my designs. Case
in point:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player.png
That was the original CB music player design. After getting ACTUAL
critiques (not bullshit like the kind you spew out) I adapted it to
look like this:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_2.png
And then after further critiques, again, NOT BULLSHIT LIKE YOURS, I
adapted it to look like this:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_3.png
So you see Ass Huffer, it's not that I don't welcome critiques and use
them to better my work...it's just that stupid little jealous snit
raving fuckwits like yourself don't have any measure of skill or
knowledge, so you CAN'T critique my work. At best you can pull some
retarded shit out of yer ass, most of which will either be stupid or
JUST PLAIN WRONG (like yer idiot comprehension of the compatibility of
Flash).
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>> >And really, if you think THIS:
>> >http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
>>
>> >Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
>> >http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
>Yah, their site is way better...
It's "way better", huh? Woah, what a professional level critique THAT
is, Jeremy. Did the "great masters", you know, the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Artists, did they teach you how to critique like that? Or did
you simply DROOL through art school?
>I have posted 2 times, none of them have seemed to go up for some
>reason...
Maybe Google froups (the WebTV of Usenet) is filtering out stupidity,
that would explain why your posts are being blocked.
>basically... to the extent of alice over here is a raving idiot. And
>what kind of freak are you to be an adult... you are an adult right??
>and be obsessed with the care bears.
>
>in the end.... alice(the mmaaad hatter) is the ted stevens of design.
>congratulations.
Can anyone figure out what this idiot is drooling on about, I don't
read/speak Stupid.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
>On 13 Feb 2007 16:19:11 GMT, PerfectReign
><perfec...@xr4ti.tinfoilcat.com> wrote:
>
>>Though I don't like having Flash either, please tell me from whom it
>>limits? AFAIK, pretty much any browser can run Flash, with the possible
>>exception of Lynx.
>
>The problem is that not everybody wants to use Flash, and consider it evil.
"consider it evil"
...
"consider it EVIL"
...
"CONSIDER IT EVIL"
...
EVIL
...
E-fucking-VIL
o_O
...wow...I mean just...WOW!
*froup line amended*
OOOooo...teh EEEEEVVVUUUUULLLL Flash is going to git you! It's hiding
underneath your bed just ~waiting~ for you to fall asleep and
then....EEEEYAAAA!
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>*sigh*
>But negatively critiquing so<snip>
Now wait, wait, wait...point out WHERE this bumbling idiot EVER
CRITIQUED one of my sites. The only thing he EVER did was run the
fuck at the mouth and throw out a bunch of meandering, fuckwitted lame
inspired attempts at verbal retribution. Telling someone that you
think their work sucks is NOT a critique, it's a NONPINION. A
critique would be SPECIFICALLY pointing out something THAT IS WRONG
from a TECHNICAL STANDPOINT. It can even be a ~bit~ subjective so
long as it's ROOTED in technical merit, like those who were saying the
first CB music player design was too kitschy for their tastes. Their
tastes aside, it was true that the design WAS too kitschy. Now, if
that's what I was going for (which is wasn't), then it would have been
a moot point. But you see, THAT is an example of a subjective
CRITIQUE. Saying you think someone's work suck is not a critique, not
even a subjective one, it's just plain fucking retarded is what it is.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Onideus Mad Hatter
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
>>But that's if the main purpose is to sell something. In cases where
>>it's for fun, for one's own knowledge advancement, or just for
>>something to do, it doesn't really matter. It can be however that
>>person wants it to be. Frankly, I think Hat (since I believe the
>>discussion is really about him and site), does it for *him* and no one
>>else.
>It does matter, even if the site is for fun. The only good use for Flash is
>slideshows.
WRONG!
Typical college flunkie, the extent of his knowledge of Flash probably
doesn't extend any farther than what he slurped up during freshmen
year.
Those who are ACTUAL artists and developers know how to KEEP UP with
technology and as such we're fully aware of just how capable Flash is
and just how far it extends beyond other solutions. Here's my
undefeatable list:
1. support of 32 bit JPEGs
2. fully cross operating system compatible
3. fully cross browser compatible
4. support of the On2 VP6 codec
5. support of color matrices
6. support of audio spectrum analysis
7. support of alpha transparent video
8. fully cross browser support of alpha transparent PNG files
(possible with a bunch of extra Javascript…even then though there are
compatibility issues)
9. ability to track the number of bytes loaded on a particular object
10. the ability to dynamically control the loading of media files
(could be done in Javascript but not as easily and less efficiently)
11. direct connection to ports with the ability to “talk” directly
with a particular protocols language
12. ability to analyze and manipulate image pixel data in a whole
variety of ways. (only Java is comparable in that respect)
13. ability to stop a media file from being loaded during the loading
process
14. ability to control the resizing of elements, being able to turn on
and off smoothing for specific elements and making use of bilinear and
bicubic resampling. (can be done with a combination of PHP and
javascript, but it less cross browser compatible and uses 10 times the
amount of server resources and is about 700% slower, even with server
side image caching.)
15. fully custom cursors (can be done with SOME versions of IE using
CSS, but even then yer limited to cur files and can’t use larger
images)
16. custom context menus
17. custom scroll bars
18. FIFTY TIMES FASTER than javascript
19. custom video/audio controls (can be done ~somewhat~ with
javascript but ONLY with certain browsers like IE…and even then with
only about half the functionality that you can get with Flash, like
you can’t track how much has been loaded/streamed and you can’t track
the play positioning)
20. direct support, creation and control over vector based graphics
There’s TWENTY different things that can ONLY be done with Flash.
There’s a couple that ~sorta~ can be done without it…but only if you
want to make your sites so that they only function on Internet
Explorer…and even then you can’t get ALL the functionality that Flash
offers.
Even for just a PLAIN TEXT site my form is VASTLY superior to using
HTML and CSS; mostly cause you can use embedded fonts, you can have
liquid sizable text as opposed to just liquid space stretched text and
you get proper font antialiasing in Flash.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>Coincidentally, there are people around here who ACTUALLY do have the
>capability to critique my work and in the instances where they have, I
>have DIRECTLY used their criticisms to improve upon my designs. Case
>in point:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player.png
>
>That was the original CB music player design. After getting ACTUAL
>critiques (not bullshit like the kind you spew out) I adapted it to
>look like this:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_2.png
>
>And then after further critiques, again, NOT BULLSHIT LIKE YOURS, I
>adapted it to look like this:
>http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_3.png
I think you need quite a lot more improving critiques. I am not going to
give you any building critique as you don't deserve it :-)
>So you see Ass Huffer, it's not that I don't welcome critiques and use
>them to better my work...it's just that stupid little jealous snit
>raving fuckwits like yourself don't have any measure of skill or
>knowledge, so you CAN'T critique my work. At best you can pull some
>retarded shit out of yer ass, most of which will either be stupid or
>JUST PLAIN WRONG (like yer idiot comprehension of the compatibility of
>Flash).
So, what was wrong about it then?
--
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk
Jeckyl
arguments)...
> 1. support of 32 bit JPEGs
Just to clarify .. SWF files themselves only support a subset of JPEG
(24-bit RGB non-progressive) .. however, more recent Flash Player / SWF
format gets improved support by allowing external JPEG files to be loaded
with fewer restrictions. I would not be suprised to see future SWF formats
directly supporting less restricted JPEG (seeing the player is able to
decompress them now).
Also note that JPEG compressed image embedded in a SWF file can also have
transparency .. so you can combine JPEG compression with transparency.
> 8. fully cross browser support of alpha transparent PNG files
> (possible with a bunch of extra Javascript.even then though there are
> compatibility issues)
Again to clarify, SWF files themselves do not have PNG images in them ..
only JPEG compressed or zipped bitmaps. However, more recent Flash Player /
SWF formats gets improved support by allowing external PNG files. I would
not be suprised to see future SWF formats directly supporting PNG (seeing
the player is able to decompress them now)
> 11. direct connection to ports with the ability to "talk" directly
> with a particular protocols language
If you are meaning hardware ports .. then SWF and Flash Player do not
directly allow for that .. but they do allow one to communicate with a
(hosting) program that can then do the work for you and return results back.
A SWF in a web page wouldn't be able to access hardware ports on its own.
Maybe I'm misundersatnding what you mean by 'ports'. It could well be that
fscommand and ExternalInterface are what you are talking about.
> 18. FIFTY TIMES FASTER than javascript
I'm not sure about that .. from what I've read/seen Flash AS is actually
slower than most javascript implementation .. however, I haven't done any
particular test on it (I might give it a try and see what results I get ..
I'll let you know .. always good to be abel to reproduce results for
oneself) NOTE: that with AS3 (currently only from Flex 2 or Flash 9
preview) you will get get much faster performance than AS1/AS2 due to a
re-written virtual machine for the AS3 compiled code.
--
Jeckyl
Martin Heffels
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>...you just...you don't get it, do ya? I mean I go and verbally
>hammer ya the fuck right into the wall and you STILL don't get it.
Hammer me in the wall? What? It takes a man to do that, not you :-)
>Is it something in the water that's making you so gawd awfully stupid or
>what? How exactly is it that a person can be *SO* Jesus raping stupid
>that they can't even figure out the difference between a NONPINION and
>a CRITIQUE? Did you ride the short bus or something, Marty? Is that
>the problem we're having here? Cause honestly, I just don't see how
>we can proceed any further until you can figure out the difference
>between jacking off random attempts at insulting and actually managing
>to point out SPECIFIC problems with the site in regards to usability,
>design, function, navigation, etc. Really, about the ONLY coherent
>you could come up with in regards to my logo is that some people might
>feel kinda sea sick lookin at it for a long time...but then it's
>unlikely that they would go to my site simply to stare at my logo for
>hours on end and again the animation is subtle enough that it's not
>really going to be a bother.
I believe you are getting confused now. I never said anything about people
getting sick staring at your logo......
>
>Let's see...what else...oh you could try and nitpick about the
>monochromatic color scheme I guess...that's a bit of a subjective
>analysis though than objective one, although generally speaking being
>able to use multiple colors in a way that remains pleasing shows a
>higher level of skill...but on the other hand the more colors you add,
>the greater the number of people who won't like the design as much
>from a subjective view (at least that's what the research I've done
>shows, not sure if anyone else has bothered to do any color taste
>studies).
Too bad for you. I like monochromatic.
>Now ya see there, Bumbles, you are *SO* gawd damn deficient that *I*
>actually had to try and come up with reasons FOR YOU about how the
>design may not be so good (from a technical standpoint). Now then,
>maybe if you're feeling ~slightly~ less fuckin retarded you can try it
>out too! Go on, Bumbles, let's see if you can do it!
It's not the design. It's calling it so great, that's what's wrong about
it. The bobbing can easily be created, and slapping it on a
computer-generated background, can anyone do. It is not art. It is a feeble
attempt to art. But it doesn't stand-out, it's not special, nothing new,
nothing earth-shaking. For it to be recognized as such, you need to come up
with something better.
>The increase wouldn't be sustained if that were true, you bumbling
>retard. People would look, move on and never come back. Besides
>which, I only see a small handful of retarded jackasses whining about
>my sites, just because you're the LOUDEST little fit throwing snits
>doesn't mean that your jealousy induced hate rage is shared amongst
>the millions of visitors going to my site...although you know...you
>are so utterly fuckwitted, that I bet you ACTUALLY think that your
>NONPinion is shared amongst millions.
Millions... not even in your wettest dream :-))
>The bottom line is that my sites generate more praise and respect than
>they do whining and fit throwing from children like yourself. I
>understand though, I mean about your jealousy, it must really burn you
>up in side to be a talentless, unproducing little fuckwit and then to
>have someone like me come along and rub yer idiot fuckin face in it.
Sure ;-)
>>>And really, if you think THIS:
>>>http://www.backwater-productions.net/care-bears/
>>>
>>>Is somehow MORE mediocre than this (a professionally created site):
>>>http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/index.html
>
>>*yawn* I can't stand the long download time.
>
>Yeah the 6.2 seconds on the SLOWEST broadband connection, hoo boy,
>*THAT* sure is a LONG time to wait for a site to load up.
It is slow. If I would have hit upon the site accidently, I would have
moved on within 3 seconds. It's what most users do who surf at random.
>Coincidentally, you stupid fucking retard, the official,
>professionally created site...yeah, it actually LOADS SLOWER than
>mine...by about 3 seconds. DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM!
Even worse. And that for the professional version.
>It's that whole, "thinking" thing I believe you keep fucking yourself
>up on.
>
>>Besides, a professional
>>creates a website which is accesible to a multitude of browsers and
>>platforms. Limiting yourself to Flash is very amateurish, as you cut-out a
>>lot of potential people who might watch your site.
>
>WRONG!
>
>Flash is *THE* most cross operating system and cross browser
>compatible solution that exists PERIOD.
It is, but it also makes the web the most inaccesible.
[...]
>Uh oh, backpedal, LOOK OUT! Oh hey, I know you can't be bothered to
>prove that you're not a raving fuckin loony bin retard, but uh, maybe
>you can be bothered to froth at the mouth in stupid for at least
>another 6 or 7 posts...you know, LIKE YOU ALREADY HAVE BEEN. LOL...I
>mean REALLY, you can be bothered to run the fuck at the mouth and
>drool like a retard but you can't be bothered to prove that you're not
>just some stupid fuckin poser? How does THAT makes sense? I think
>you best bring that lil backpedal of yers back to the drawing board,
>Kiddo, cause it's gonna need some work.
Ahhh, the Hatter's backpedal-trick. You know that won't work on me, trying
to shove that kind of guilt into me. If you approach this whole thing
professionaly (or courteously), you would get a lot more positive
criticism. Now it's only a couple of your fanboys....
>Oh, do share, Retardo, just where *ARE* these "professional" forums.
>*shudder* Boy the Internet sure is serious business in those
>"professional" forums I guess, huh Bumbles?
It certainly is :-) Sharing?? No. Because they are not in your field.
>Pffft, I can improve my work on my own, I don't need deficients with
>lesser skill than me to snit about how jealous they are (which is what
>you're doing). Oh hey, thanks for admitting you're not a professional
>though. See, that wasn't so hard, now was it?
I am a pro. I earn a decent amout of money with what I talk about. You only
talk....
>You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the post in the link I gave because I'm
>fairly certain it touches on the whole superiority of Flash.
No. Flash is not superior. Flash is abysmal.
>You HAVE nothing, so your NONpinion is completely worthless. Oh but
>hey, keep pulling shit out of yer ass you little unproducing fuckwit.
Yeah, I have to do that, because I eat.
Onideus Mad Hatter
wrote:
>Overall, quite valid .. just a couple of clarifications (rather than
>arguments)...
>
>> 1. support of 32 bit JPEGs
>
>Just to clarify .. SWF files themselves only support a subset of JPEG
>(24-bit RGB non-progressive) .. however, more recent Flash Player / SWF
>format gets improved support by allowing external JPEG files to be loaded
>with fewer restrictions. I would not be suprised to see future SWF formats
>directly supporting less restricted JPEG (seeing the player is able to
>decompress them now).
>
>Also note that JPEG compressed image embedded in a SWF file can also have
>transparency .. so you can combine JPEG compression with transparency.
A JPEG with a transparency layer would be a 32 bit JPEG.
>> 8. fully cross browser support of alpha transparent PNG files
>> (possible with a bunch of extra Javascript.even then though there are
>> compatibility issues)
>Again to clarify, SWF files themselves do not have PNG images in them ..
>only JPEG compressed or zipped bitmaps. However, more recent Flash Player /
>SWF formats gets improved support by allowing external PNG files. I would
>not be suprised to see future SWF formats directly supporting PNG (seeing
>the player is able to decompress them now)
A zipped bitmap though very similar to a PNG file size wise. On
average when I import PNG files into SWF I gain about .001568% worth
of bloat. For the sake of not confusing teh n00bs though it's better
to describe it in terms of PNG, rather than zipped bitmaps, which is
only gonna wind up confusing most people, ; )
>> 11. direct connection to ports with the ability to "talk" directly
>> with a particular protocols language
>If you are meaning hardware ports .. then SWF and Flash Player do not
>directly allow for that .. but they do allow one to communicate with a
>(hosting) program that can then do the work for you and return results back.
>A SWF in a web page wouldn't be able to access hardware ports on its own.
>Maybe I'm misundersatnding what you mean by 'ports'. It could well be that
>fscommand and ExternalInterface are what you are talking about.
Nope, I'm talking about brand new Flash 9 functionality, usin teh
flash.net.Socket class. I don't know if that's supported yet though
in SwishMax, I haven't experimented with it just yet. What's neat
though is that you could technically build your own mail client or
Usenet client directly in Flash.
>> 18. FIFTY TIMES FASTER than javascript
>I'm not sure about that .. from what I've read/seen Flash AS is actually
>slower than most javascript implementation .. however, I haven't done any
>particular test on it (I might give it a try and see what results I get ..
>I'll let you know .. always good to be abel to reproduce results for
>oneself) NOTE: that with AS3 (currently only from Flex 2 or Flash 9
>preview) you will get get much faster performance than AS1/AS2 due to a
>re-written virtual machine for the AS3 compiled code.
It depends on the code, I'm talking mostly about animated effects that
are controlled via code, like nyah:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/transmove/
Javascript is PAINFULLY fucking slow in that area, especially if you
try animating more than say...ONE object. o_O
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm น x น
Max Grrl
Hatter <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:16:56 -0600, Max Grrl <maxth...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >*sigh*
> >But negatively critiquing so<snip>
>
> Now wait, wait, wait...point out WHERE this bumbling idiot EVER
> CRITIQUED one of my sites. The only thing he EVER did was run the
> fuck at the mouth and throw out a bunch of meandering, fuckwitted lame
> inspired attempts at verbal retribution. Telling someone that you
> think their work sucks is NOT a critique, it's a NONPINION. A
> critique would be SPECIFICALLY pointing out something THAT IS WRONG
> from a TECHNICAL STANDPOINT. It can even be a ~bit~ subjective so
> long as it's ROOTED in technical merit, like those who were saying the
> first CB music player design was too kitschy for their tastes. Their
> tastes aside, it was true that the design WAS too kitschy. Now, if
> that's what I was going for (which is wasn't), then it would have been
> a moot point. But you see, THAT is an example of a subjective
> CRITIQUE. Saying you think someone's work suck is not a critique, not
> even a subjective one, it's just plain fucking retarded is what it is.
BUT for some, simply saying "I don't like it" is the extent of their
ability TO critique (we can discuss the definition of the word
"critique" if you like) . . . and asking them for an explanation is
often a complete waste of time. In *MANY* cases, all you'll get, if you
ask for more specifics, is "Because I don't."
If you want to discuss the definition of the word "critique" I'm all
for it . . . but bear in mind that most people that "critique" have no
idea WHAT they're critiquing, nor what a critique is meant to
accomplish (which is, ostensibly, encourage more exploration of
thoughts or ideas). And in that case, you might as well squeeze blood
out of a turnip.
Martin, correct me if I'm wrong, is not an artist . . . he doesn't get
the point of critiquing (and I think, few NONartists *do* understand
the concept) and as such, wouldn't be ABLE to say anything beyond "I
don't like it, just because I don't."
In asking him for a reasonable explanation of WHY he doesn't like it,
you're wasting your time.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
<use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>Nope, I'm talking about brand new Flash 9 functionality, usin teh
>flash.net.Socket class. I don't know if that's supported yet though
>in SwishMax, I haven't experimented with it just yet. What's neat
>though is that you could technically build your own mail client or
>Usenet client directly in Flash.
Here's teh Livedoc link:
http://livedocs.macromedia.com/labs/as3preview/langref/flash/net/Socket.html
Max Grrl
Hatter <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
*sigh*
But again, you're asking for the *impossible*. If he *were* ABLE to
give a critique (at least what you or I would consider a critique), he
*would* have at the time. Some people, usually NONartists aren't ABLE
to critique beyond "I just don't like it."
Martin, it's frustrating to artists when you don't give explanations
for your opinions . . . if you don't expand beyond "It sucks" how the
hell are we supposed to *know* what to improve?
And in analogy, if you told a surgeon that he botched up a surgery and
couldn't tell him *HOW* he botched it, do you really think that he'd
give your opinion on his technique much merit?? Nope, he'd dismiss you
as someone who has no idea what you're talking about - just like Hat's
done.
I taught art for a number of years and I've seen critiques like yours
botch the success of budding artists (in panel judging for state shows)
merely based on the fact that they "didn't like it." No one, except for
fellow artists, saw the imagination, the creativity, the
self-expression. They saw simply that it didn't jibe with their tastes.
And that's a crime.
And that's not critiquing. It's offering a negative *opinion*. Some of
the BEST works of art by non-conforming artists would look shitty on
someone's wall. Typically, those are who end up being the best artists.
Because, like Hat, they refuse to accept someone else's opinion on
their ability. And they strive for MORE.
--
Max Grrl
<goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:32:51 -0800, Onideus Mad Hatter
> <use...@backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>
> >Coincidentally, there are people around here who ACTUALLY do have the
> >capability to critique my work and in the instances where they have, I
> >have DIRECTLY used their criticisms to improve upon my designs. Case
> >in point:
> >http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player.png
> >
> >That was the original CB music player design. After getting ACTUAL
> >critiques (not bullshit like the kind you spew out) I adapted it to
> >look like this:
> >http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_2.png
> >
> >And then after further critiques, again, NOT BULLSHIT LIKE YOURS, I
> >adapted it to look like this:
> >http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/CB_Music_Player_3.png
>
> I think you need quite a lot more improving critiques. I am not going to
> give you any building critique as you don't deserve it :-)
Then you're not critiquing at ALL. And simply saying "I don't like
it." is insulting and trivial at best. And Hat's completely right.
>
> >So you see Ass Huffer, it's not that I don't welcome critiques and use
> >them to better my work...it's just that stupid little jealous snit
> >raving fuckwits like yourself don't have any measure of skill or
> >knowledge, so you CAN'T critique my work. At best you can pull some
> >retarded shit out of yer ass, most of which will either be stupid or
> >JUST PLAIN WRONG (like yer idiot comprehension of the compatibility of
> >Flash).
>
> So, what was wrong about it then?
Whatever he, in the end, decided WAS wrong with it. You see, he's more
than likely got a visual in his head - or at least, a "feeling" on how
it will ultimately look. And he's going to chip away at it, adding
here, taking away there, until it fits that idea or visual in his head.
He'd just use whatever critiques he was offered to help refine HIS
vision. If he was going for a dark, tormented painting, say, and he had
a big crow in the painting . . . and someone said, "Make the crow
bigger" it would help to further MAKE it dark and tormented.
In commercial art, if he were designing a site for kids, and he came
and asked for a critique, one would assume that he wanted input on how
to make it MORE child-friendly. He'd use others' critiques to get it to
the point in his head.
*sigh*
I'm not sure if I'm helping anyone or just confusing the issue.
Are you guys discussing artistic critiquing or technical???
On the subject of Flash being a poor medium for art, bear in mind that
acrylic was criticized in *exactly* the same fashion that you're
criticizing Flash. It's not the medium - it's the expression. The
medium is just a convenient way for others to visualize what's going on
in an artist's head.