Is abstract art, design?
DJS2C
'Art' is realy just 'design'.
Where is the boarder? I think an arangment of shapes and lines not suposed
to look like anthing in particular more juts convaying emotion and looking
'astheticaly pleasing' is design not art...
Is a Black Square with one white dot Art? IF so then is everything 'Art' ?
Is my broken window art? It's def not design.
J
Matt Bostock
you look at them closely enough.
Matt
Peadge
news:cqabq8$8ts$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Art is like beauty. It's in the eye of the beholder. However, the same
thing also applies to ugly.
Peadge :-)
"Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clear to the bone." - Anonymous
DJS2C
"Matt Bostock" <ma...@mattbostock.com> wrote in message
news:Gs4yd.139$Ff5...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Art is what *you* make it. Art is art. Most things in life are art if
> you look at them closely enough.
>
> Matt
>
J
DJS2C
"Peadge" <onerave...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-Z6dnSiNgpz...@comcast.com...
J
Ripper
"DJS2C" <firespinde...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> ? I have spent a day in the Tate and I feel half the stuff claiming to be
> 'Art' is realy just 'design'.
> Where is the boarder? I think an arangment of shapes and lines not suposed
> to look like anthing in particular more juts convaying emotion and looking
> 'astheticaly pleasing' is design not art...
I think the border exists within the inner structure of a piece of visual
expression, whether it's art or just a design. Art combines structural
relationships by means of visual language that express the artists emotion,
his ideas and comments of his inner and outer worlds, while design uses the
same visual language but only to communicate with targeted market. To make
it simple, IMHO, art is about expressing a feeling and the artist itself,
while the design excludes the designer's emotion, and includes his ability
to communicate the product to the broader audience at a given moment.
> Is a Black Square with one white dot Art? IF so then is everything 'Art' ?
To understand the modern art one must understand the visual language. The
famous Malevich piece - black square on a white squre - is considered to be
the end of Art.
But then again, Art is maybe just short for Arthur :)
> Is my broken window art? It's def not design.
if you cut your hand on it, draw a bloody circle on the bedroom wall, and
then write a conceptual manifesto about it, then it migh as well be art.
Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio
>> you look at them closely enough.
>>
>> Matt
>>
> *staring at everything* :) ..
> J
:-)
--
Pepe
Milano, Italy
Hunter Elliott
> ? I have spent a day in the Tate and I feel half the stuff claiming to be
> 'Art' is realy just 'design'.
> Where is the boarder?
? What would renting out a room in your house (or going on a boat) to
someone have to do with what you're talking about?
boarder:
One who boards, especially:
1.. One who pays a stipulated sum in return for regular meals or for meals
and lodging.
2.. One who goes on board a vessel as part of an assault or military
action: repel all boarders.
tak...@yahoo.com
jtg
Matt Bostock
Matt :)
DJS2C
"Hunter Elliott" <nos...@gatewaycity.com> wrote in message
news:yvfyd.4939$iC4....@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "DJS2C" <firespinde...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cqabq8$8ts$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > ? I have spent a day in the Tate and I feel half the stuff claiming to
be
> > 'Art' is realy just 'design'.
> > Where is the boarder?
>
> ? What would renting out a room in your house (or going on a boat) to
> someone have to do with what you're talking about?
If they were interested ... Of cource that above makes no sence
either...perhapes you meen
? What would renting out a room in your house to
someone (or going on a boat), have to do with what you're talking about
We all make mistakes
:)
J
lime
> She?
>
> Matt :)
James is a 'he' ;o)
--
Helen, lime, et al.
DJS2C
"Ripper" <n...@net.net> wrote in message news:cqbnnk$km1$1...@ls219.htnet.hr...
>
> "DJS2C" <firespinde...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > ? I have spent a day in the Tate and I feel half the stuff claiming to
be
> > 'Art' is realy just 'design'.
> > Where is the boarder? I think an arangment of shapes and lines not
suposed
> > to look like anthing in particular more juts convaying emotion and
looking
> > 'astheticaly pleasing' is design not art...
>
> I think the border exists within the inner structure of a piece of visual
> expression, whether it's art or just a design. Art combines structural
> relationships by means of visual language that express the artists
emotion,
> his ideas and comments of his inner and outer worlds, while design uses
the
> same visual language but only to communicate with targeted market. To make
> it simple, IMHO, art is about expressing a feeling and the artist itself,
> while the design excludes the designer's emotion, and includes his ability
> to communicate the product to the broader audience at a given moment.
>
Yes good points. My design work at the moment doesnt really have any emotion
for ME in it. But I am trying to convey the right messege , simple but im
doing a more rugged coloured site at the moment as its for heavy duty
machinery (BIG Low Loader Lorries).
Are you a fan of modern art though ? as I think it is being taken way too
far and frankley some pieces I have been looking at to me can not be called
good art... Where I live is full of talented modern artists selling very
reasonably priced work I will post some sites.. I find much more apealing
than some 'hanging in the Tate work'. Dont think too much of the Turner
prize either..
> > Is a Black Square with one white dot Art? IF so then is everything 'Art'
?
>
> To understand the modern art one must understand the visual language. The
> famous Malevich piece - black square on a white squre - is considered to
be
> the end of Art.
>
I guess I have problems with things that I think I could do (i know i havnt
tho lol) , I have seen brilliant 'modern art' I could never do then
'black and white square' etc
> But then again, Art is maybe just short for Arthur :)
>
> > Is my broken window art? It's def not design.
>
> if you cut your hand on it, draw a bloody circle on the bedroom wall, and
> then write a conceptual manifesto about it, then it migh as well be art.
>
!! Yes I belive it would. This follows the fact that art in school is all
about the journey that takes you to the end of your piece of work rather
than the finished artical. In school, college etc we had to spend 95% of the
design/art/video/etc project time on the research and ideas stages before
the 5% working on prducing the finished artical.
James
Alan Apperson
> thing also applies to ugly.
Alan Apperson
Peadge
"Alan Apperson" <alanap...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:N%oyd.1348$Pc.2...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > Art is like beauty. It's in the eye of the beholder. However, the same
> > thing also applies to ugly.
> I thought pain was in the hand of the Bee Holder.
>
>
Ba-doomp-tshctch! That one stung!
Peadge :-)
Peadge
>
> > ? I have spent a day in the Tate and I feel half the stuff claiming to
be
> > 'Art' is realy just 'design'.
> > Where is the boarder? I think an arangment of shapes and lines not
suposed
> > to look like anthing in particular more juts convaying emotion and
looking
> > 'astheticaly pleasing' is design not art...
>
> I think the border exists within the inner structure of a piece of visual
> expression, whether it's art or just a design. Art combines structural
> relationships by means of visual language that express the artists
emotion,
> his ideas and comments of his inner and outer worlds, while design uses
the
> same visual language but only to communicate with targeted market. To make
> it simple, IMHO, art is about expressing a feeling and the artist itself,
> while the design excludes the designer's emotion, and includes his ability
> to communicate the product to the broader audience at a given moment.
I must disagree with you on the point that designers exclude emotion. My
first priority in design, at least for web sites, is to determine which
feelings the owner wishes to convey to the visitors. I do this by using a
long list of descriptive words, each associated with a certain color or
colors. Colors by their nature instill certain feelings when we see them,
regardless of context. I try to take advantage of this color quality in my
design projects.
>
> > Is a Black Square with one white dot Art? IF so then is everything 'Art'
?
>
> To understand the modern art one must understand the visual language. The
> famous Malevich piece - black square on a white squre - is considered to
be
> the end of Art.
>
> But then again, Art is maybe just short for Arthur :)
>
> > Is my broken window art? It's def not design.
>
> if you cut your hand on it, draw a bloody circle on the bedroom wall, and
> then write a conceptual manifesto about it, then it migh as well be art.
>
>
My personal feeling is that Design and Art are two domains that share a
considerable overlap. I agree that Art may focus more on feelings than
Design, and that Design may place feelings secondary to other more
superficial qualities like "value" or "purchasing influence." Often, if the
designer considers him/herself also an artist, he/she may find considerable
distaste in the marketing hierarchy and prevailing rules of Design as
opposed to the extreme liberty offered by Art.
Another difference between Art and Design may be the lasting effect the work
has on those exposed to it. Design is the ebbing tide whereas Art is the
body of water itself.
The fact that the Tate Exhibit caused the OP to wonder about the essence of
Art enough to post it in a Newsgroup makes the case that it did indeed serve
its purpose.
I recall the enormous controversy over the exhibit of the Cross in urine,
and the related NEA funding. Personally, I never did see it, but just
thinking about it caused a cascade of normally non-associated feelings,
revolving around my central question....Does urine desecrate the Cross or
does the Cross consecrate the urine. Should I give more power to the urine
or to the Cross?
I chose wonder over outrage and am glad I did. I see far too many furled
brows already and no need to add mine.
Peadge :o)
Matt Bostock
Matt
Ripper
"Peadge" <onerave...@comcast.net> wrote in message
/cut
> I must disagree with you on the point that designers exclude emotion. My
> first priority in design, at least for web sites, is to determine which
> feelings the owner wishes to convey to the visitors. I do this by using a
> long list of descriptive words, each associated with a certain color or
> colors. Colors by their nature instill certain feelings when we see them,
> regardless of context. I try to take advantage of this color quality in my
> design projects.
I believe I've been misread.. I wasn't saying that design is not about
conveying emotions, on the contrary, design that induces an emotional
reaction is a design that lingers on. But the emotions shouldn't be the
designer's emotions.
> I recall the enormous controversy over the exhibit of the Cross in urine,
> and the related NEA funding. Personally, I never did see it, but just
> thinking about it caused a cascade of normally non-associated feelings,
> revolving around my central question....Does urine desecrate the Cross or
> does the Cross consecrate the urine. Should I give more power to the
urine
> or to the Cross?
>
> I chose wonder over outrage and am glad I did. I see far too many furled
> brows already and no need to add mine.
that's a good attitude!
Hunter Elliott
> > ? What would renting out a room in your house (or going on a boat) to
> > someone have to do with what you're talking about?
>
> If they were interested ... Of cource that above makes no sence
> either...perhapes you meen
?? "cource", "sence", "perhapes", "meen" ???
I sure hope English is not your native language.
48073
>
>Are you a fan of modern art though ? as I think it is being taken way too
>far
What do you suggest? Artist's taking a 30year break so the rest will
have time to catch up?
>and frankley some pieces I have been looking at to me can not be called
>good art...
Art is the only subject where about anyone can have any opinion and
claim it to be as valid as anyone else's.
>Where I live is full of talented modern artists selling very
>reasonably priced work
On top of it they always find art is too expensive.
But: Art is never expensive, even if it's high priced.
> I will post some sites.. I find much more apealing
>than some 'hanging in the Tate work'.
Art doesn't have to be appealing to anyone.
>I guess I have problems with things that I think I could do
Art is not about imitation.
> (i know i havnt
>tho lol) ,
That's the whole point isn't it?
48073.
Davide Montellanico
IMHO a real artist doesn't care about others opinions.
A real artist create only for himself.
If you care about the audience, you are not creating an artpiece, you are
doing a commercial work.
I think there is enough room for art into design related activities. There
are a lot of interesting design works that are not addressed to a wide
audience. A designer could wish to research new kind of visual expressions
experimenting new visual languages and techniques that are contaminated
through the language of art. In this case, he doesn't have the need to
create for the audience but for himself only. He behaves like an artist do.
cheers.
--
Davide
"DJS2C" <firespinde...@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:cqd4j0$7ot$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Peadge
"Ripper" <n...@net.net> wrote in message news:cqei1u$5fm$1...@ls219.htnet.hr...
>
> "Peadge" <onerave...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> /cut
>
> > I must disagree with you on the point that designers exclude emotion.
My
> > first priority in design, at least for web sites, is to determine which
> > feelings the owner wishes to convey to the visitors. I do this by using
a
> > long list of descriptive words, each associated with a certain color or
> > colors. Colors by their nature instill certain feelings when we see
them,
> > regardless of context. I try to take advantage of this color quality in
my
> > design projects.
>
> I believe I've been misread.. I wasn't saying that design is not about
> conveying emotions, on the contrary, design that induces an emotional
> reaction is a design that lingers on. But the emotions shouldn't be the
> designer's emotions.
>
>
I did misread. One of my glass eyes has been acting funky lately! Agreement
reached!
Peadge :-)
quiqueg
news:cqabq8$8ts$1...@sparta.btinternet.com:
> Is a Black Square with one white dot Art? IF so then is everything
> 'Art' ? Is my broken window art? It's def not design.
I claim myself to be a designer, not an artist, because what I do is to
use some of the instruments that were invented and developed by the
artist to pursue a certain scope, whilst the artist uses them to satisfy
his/hers creative urge.
Do my work and and artist work have something in common ? Yes, sometimes
the tecnique and sometimes the medium. And sometimes both of them.
Am I an artist when I design a tomato soup can or silscreen Marylin
Monroe face ? No. Was Andy Warhol an artist then ? Yes. Am I an artist if
I design an urinal ? Not really. But was Marcel Duchamp an artist ? Yes,
probably because he brought it into a museum.
Was Michelangelo's Sixtine Chapel a work of art or o work of design ? His
frescoes are one of the highes points reached in human art. But they had
(and were designed) to fulfill a task: to bring "life, universe and
everything" into a relatively small room in the Vatican. And they
wonderfully do so.
So as we go back in history the line gets thinner, you know. Shortly
after we came down from the trees, man has always felt the need to
express himself (and not only with images and objects, but also with
words) to satisfy a personal urge for creative expression and to fulfill
a task, including that to simply tell a story.
Pompeii frescoes are now regarded as art. But their original scope was to
say "Here you gonna find the best booze south of Rome, mate. Not to
mention chicks". (ok, maybe this is reductive)
Personally I am not (I feel myself not to be) an artist. I have
constraints. And I love them because they challenge me.
What if I came up with some "pieces" done without constraints of any
sort, just to satisfy my creative urge ? Would I be an artist then ?
Could be. Probably, yes. Here's where I'd draw the line. But it would be
very thin anyway. Can I be an artist ? Yes. Can an artist be a designer ?
Why not.
QQG
--
ho cambiato e-mail: aggiorna i Worm sul tuo PC
DJS2C
who car3s
J
Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio
much wine and old age.
Hunter Elliott
Your clients.
DJS2C
> > > ?? "cource", "sence", "perhapes", "meen" ???
> > > I sure hope English is not your native language.
> > >
> >
> > who car3s
> > J
>
> Your clients.
>
J
DJS2C
"Davide Montellanico" <lati...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:HwIyd.327567$b5.15...@news3.tin.it...
> Hi James,
> IMHO a real artist doesn't care about others opinions.
> A real artist create only for himself.
> If you care about the audience, you are not creating an artpiece, you are
> doing a commercial work.
As I am doing. My young lady is doing her Art portfolio for getting into
college and I think I may do some art with her as a relexation from
commerical work! We are looking at urban art to bring it over to the canvas
then I will create a stencil and have it taken back to 'urban art' in 'a
circle of art' :). That is just a quick over view.
> I think there is enough room for art into design related activities. There
> are a lot of interesting design works that are not addressed to a wide
> audience. A designer could wish to research new kind of visual expressions
> experimenting new visual languages and techniques that are contaminated
> through the language of art. In this case, he doesn't have the need to
> create for the audience but for himself only. He behaves like an artist
do.
Ah thus the designer is creating just for his own expressionism and his/her
piece is 'ART'!
I think that with all the techniques avaible to the designer and the way you
can look at things from a 'design' perspective some interseting compositions
could be achived. I like 'messy' but 'controlled' or stylised real scenes.
I will try and find some examples of things I like...
>
> cheers.
*raises a glass of bubbly ;)*
--
> Davide
>
>J