WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL
Jade...@erols.com
gary cruse
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:27:09 GMT, ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck)
graced us all with:
>
>Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>
>>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
>
> You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
>might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
>you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
>do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
>allies?
>
> Has everyone here taken a look at this?
>
> Are there any of the Loyalists who would care to take this
>defective's side on any issue?
>
> What is wrong with you?
>
Those who know Wayne know he lives in California,
not Maryland and has more years under his belt than 24.
To try to associate this wayne mann with that one
goes beyond political cuteness and places
JadeGold where he has always been. Beneath
contempt. The need to post under an alias
has now become a requirement for this nitwit.
Gary
Billy Beck
Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
allies?
Has everyone here taken a look at this?
Are there any of the Loyalists who would care to take this
defective's side on any issue?
What is wrong with you?
Billy
Tim Brown
ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
> You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
>might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
>you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
>do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
>allies?
No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
--
bath...@iglou.com http://members.iglou.com/bathroom The Last Word
THE U.S. IS A RIGHT-WING DICTATORSHIP -- REVOLT!
Annoy a fascist -- Say no to public school uniforms & year-round school!
*** TIM BROWN FOR CONGRESS '98 ***
Billy Beck
bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>
>>Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>
>>>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
>
>> You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
>>might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
>>you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
>>do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
>>allies?
>
>No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
>by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
Hey, Brown: smarten up and pay attention:
You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
internet again. Not ever.
Now, you don't have to believe me. Just hang around and
watch.
It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
there is a good reason for that. It has to do with defamation with
malice aforethought, and there is a lesson here. You would do well to
figure it out.
Billy
Billy Beck
ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) wrote:
>bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>>No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
>>by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
>
> Hey, Brown: smarten up and pay attention:
>
> You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
>internet again. Not ever.
>
> Now, you don't have to believe me. Just hang around and
>watch.
>
> It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
>there is a good reason for that. It has to do with defamation with
>malice aforethought, and there is a lesson here. You would do well to
>figure it out.
Excuse me - let me make this clear for the cranky sophists who
are undoubtedly thinking of new wanks to bring back to us:
In the above remarks, I refer to the username/address and
person behind it who we came to despise almost as much as the
thankfully departed Richard ("Most Loathed Person In Usenet") Hanson.
The *person* who was known to us as "Jade...@erols.com", is
gone. Now, we all know that some other spectacularly foolish person
could crank up an account at Erol's Internet Service, with the same
username. And we also know that the person whose plug just got pulled
will likely return to haunt us after hooking up a new account with a
new service. (At which point that person will likely get bounced off
the net for a *third* time.)
However, the scourge we've known is gone.
Billy
Tim Brown
ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) wrote:
>>bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>>>No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
>>>by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
>>
>> Hey, Brown: smarten up and pay attention:
>>
>> You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
>>internet again. Not ever.
Is this a threat?
>> It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
>>there is a good reason for that.
Why? Because they disagreed with you?
>>malice aforethought, and there is a lesson here. You would do well to
>>figure it out.
Another threat?
> The *person* who was known to us as "Jade...@erols.com", is
>gone. Now, we all know that some other spectacularly foolish person
>could crank up an account at Erol's Internet Service, with the same
>username. And we also know that the person whose plug just got pulled
>will likely return to haunt us after hooking up a new account with a
>new service. (At which point that person will likely get bounced off
>the net for a *third* time.)
Listen, you censorship-supporting fuckwock, I am going to start cracking
down on the right-wing sheepfuckers on Usenet. In fact, I've already
started.
Michael Schneider
> > The *person* who was known to us as "Jade...@erols.com", is
> >gone. Now, we all know that some other spectacularly foolish person
> >could crank up an account at Erol's Internet Service, with the same
> >username. And we also know that the person whose plug just got pulled
> >will likely return to haunt us after hooking up a new account with a
> >new service. (At which point that person will likely get bounced off
> >the net for a *third* time.)
>
> Listen, you censorship-supporting fuckwock, I am going to start cracking
> down on the right-wing sheepfuckers on Usenet. In fact, I've already
> started.
Would you be supporting censorship if you called my ISP to complain
because I was daily sending you twelve megabyte text files attached to
email which consisted of nothing but the phrase "Tom Brown is a flaming
asshole" repeated endlessly?
Why not?
+--+--+
Remove ".antispam" from my eddress before emailing.
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America's soap opera: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
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Billy Beck
bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>>> You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
>>>internet again. Not ever.
>
>Is this a threat?
Just the facts. That rat is already in the bag.
>>> It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
>>>there is a good reason for that.
>
>Why? Because they disagreed with you?
No, Tim. I don't expect you to understand the concept of a
"lie", but that's what it's about.
>Listen, you censorship-supporting fuckwock, I am going to start cracking
>down on the right-wing sheepfuckers on Usenet. In fact, I've already
>started.
"Threats"? Don't make me laugh, you little feeb.
Billy
Tim Brown
gcr...@ix.netcom.com (gary cruse) writes:
> Those who know Wayne know he lives in California,
> not Maryland and has more years under his belt than 24.
So? It's easy enough to drive across the country to commit a murder. And
none of Wayne's posts that I've seen indicate that he is older than 24.
In fact, his posts are so immature that they don't even indicate he is
older than 6.
Wayne Mann
Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
FYI.....Since many of you are aware of the situation,
AND particularly because I wanted to publically thank Billy
for being more than a good person and exemplary human being
I am enclosing his message to me and below that a message I
received later that day from EROL.COM.
Thank you Billy.
X-Sender: wj...@mindspring.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:54:18 -0600
To: t...@callamer.com
From: Billy Beck <wj...@mindspring.com>
Subject: A Rat In The Bag
Wayne (the one & only) Mann,
The following went out to Erol's Internet Service,
this morning, and
I have received a very prompt and thoughtful reply.
I hope you will forgive me if I was precipitant or
presumptuous,
but I simply went off like a bomb as soon as I saw what I
saw. I couldn't
help it.
If I could get that rotten motherfucker by the
throat, I would soon
be either in the hands of people who care for me enough to
pull me off him,
or under indictment for assault, which case I would happily
take up
as justifiable before a court of law.
In any case, I have been assured that "action will
be taken against
the account" of Jade...@erols.com. In a later message, I
was apprised
that his account will be "deactivated by the end of the
day". I so firmly
believe that we've seen the last of the rat-bastard that
I've already
posted a small gloat in the group.
Chin up, Daddyo.
~~~~~
To: ab...@erols.com
Subject: Complaint Pursuant to Pertinent Sections of "Erol's
Online
Policies" (http://www.erols.com/erols/agreement.htm)
Dear Sir or Madame,
This letter is intended to lodge the most emphatic
possible protest to the
online conduct of a Usenet participant usernamed
"Jade...@erols.com".
This person has, for months, engaged a campaign of
disruption in the
Usenet newsgroup alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater which
can now be fairly
characterized as monstrous. It should be emphasized that
all regular and
reasonable
participants understand the volatile nature of the group
resulting from the
subject to
which it is dedicated. We all know that political matters
are naturally
incendiary, and
the strongest of us must take the responsibility to bear
broadside shots as
reciprocal
to the shots we fire. No illusions: it's a tough group. A
single glance at
my record
there will bear this out. I am no shrinking violet.
However, it would never in *life* occur to me to engage
a manifestly malicious
and deceitful effort to defame and slander the most vile of
my opponants.
With that in
mind, I submit the following post for your consideration:
Path:
mindspring!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.c
om!news
From: Jade...@erols.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
Subject: WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:13:08 GMT
Organization: Erol's Internet Services
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <333869f2...@news.erols.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wdr-as1s29.erols.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
(end quote)
Checked against the record, this post may fairly be
considered the capstone
of an impertinent campaign to *not* address any of the
substantive material
posted by
the person against whom it is targeted, and more: the user
who posted this
material
has, in the past, consistently abused his target with the
most venal
harrassment over
certain of Mr. Mann's medical difficulties, and asserted
that long-term
therapies of
un-impeachable nature are, in fact, depraved drug abuse with
the unmistakable
purpose of impugning a character which is in no way subject
to or worthy of
the effort.
Finally, we are treated to the above post.
The Erol's user named above is fully aware that the
"Wayne Mann" named at
the included URL is *not* the Wayne Mann who has been a
contributor to the
Whitewater
group for more than two years now. This is evident in the
record: our Mr.
Mann is a
senior citizen in retirement and resides on the other side
of the continent
from the 24
year-old man who is named at the above URL as wanted for
murder in the state of
Maryland. The Mr. Mann of the Whitewater group has, prior
to this episode,
made clear
his age. "Jade...@erols.com" has evidenced much research
in Mr. Mann's
background (for the very purpose of finding personal details
useful in a
campaign of
personal *abuse*), and there can simply be no question of a
mistake.
This is clearly a case which is subject to review with
reference to your
publically
available "Internet Access Agreement" and "Erol's Online
Policies",
specifically:
IX. Termination.
1. You agree that you or Erol's may terminate this Agreement
for any reason
at any time.
1. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES.
For purposes of the Prohibited Activities, the term
"information" means
material of any
type capable of being posted or transmitted on or through
the Access Service,
including material in print, graphic or pictorial form.
When using the Access Service:
(a) Defamation. You agree not to post or transmit on or
through the Access
Service
any information that is defamatory with respect to a person,
business, or
other entity,
product, or service.
(b) Fraud. You agree not to post or transmit any fraudulent
information on
or through
the Access Service. This mean any information that you know
or have reason
to know
is false, and that you intend for others to rely on.
(i) Harassment, Threats, and Abuse. You agree not to use the
Access Service to
harass, threaten, abuse, embarrass, or cause distress,
unwanted attention,
or discomfort
to any person or entity, by any means, including the use of
vulgar, hateful,
racially,
ethnically, or otherwise objectionable information.
(n) Disruptive Activities. You agree not to use the Access
Service to
disrupt the normal
flow of online dialogue, or otherwise act in a manner that
negatively
affects other
Subscribers, users, individuals, or entities.
There can be no reasonable question that this episode
in the campaign of
abuse qualifies under these sections.
Therefore, I approach you in good faith under the
following:
"6. EROL'S COMPLAINT RESPONSE PROCEDURES.
Erol's dedication to customer service means that Erol's
takes seriously and
responds to
all complaints about its subscribers' use of the Internet.
This means
complaints by both
Erol's subscribers and complaints by other Internet users.
Erol's believes
that its
customers should be able to enjoy full use of the Internet
without
interference by persons
who use the Internet in an improper or unlawful manner.
Erol's will respond to any complaint that involves online
activities that
are Prohibited
Activities under the Erol's Online Policies."
I am not qualified to comment on matters of law in this
case. (Although, If I
were the target of such stark defamation shown above, and
possessing the
resources,
I would very likely seek legal council on the matter.)
However, it seems a
reasonable
and common-sense appeal to present to you, that this
behavior is *wrong*. I
realize the presumption of my contention: if I operated an
ISP and this sort
of a complaint were
presented to me, I would be compelled by common standards of
decency to
respond in
the strongest possible manner.
Me? I want to see this person's account terminated
instantly. It's not my
call, however, because it is not my business enterprise. It
is *yours*, and
you must take
care of it. I fully understand the nature of the
responsibility, if not the
particular
dimensions that you face.
I can only plead to your sense of decency: please do
something about this.
A person has been un-fairly, falsely, and I believe,
maliciously and
knowingly, defamed
by one of your users as a murder suspect before a world-wide
forum.
I would only add that, while I substantively agree with
Mr. Mann (the one who
is *not* the subject of the above URL listed murder warrant)
on many issues
of discussion
in the Whitewater group, this complaint of mine would yet be
lodged in favor
of any of my
most passionate opponants in the group, if they were subject
to such evil
treatment.
And, I have undertaken this on my own initiative without Mr.
Mann's prior
knowledge or
consent (which is, I suppose, a risk in itself).
You see, it is my sense of honor which is aroused here.
This is unconscionable.
I can only trust that you will agree.
Quite Sincerely,
William J. Beck III - wb...@mindspring.com
~~~~~
Billy
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/
(VektorGraf)
http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/free/free.html
http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/free/essays.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: ab...@pop.erols.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:33:02 -0500
To: t...@callamer.com
From: Terms of Service <ab...@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Do you allow this?
> DO you allow this kind of harassment on an ongoing
>basis?
Nope. Recent evidence clearly indicates that I was
wrong in my
conclusions about our prior conversations. You have my
sincere apologies,
and I will furthermore be making a public apology in the
Whitewater newsgroup.
Terms of Service
Erol's Internet
\\/ayne //\ann
Remove NOSPAM from address for e-mail
"There has not been a single, solitary soul accuse me or my
wife of doing anything illegal not only in the White House,
in the presidential campaign, or in the governor's election."
Bill Clinton December 20, 1995
as reported in the Los Angeles Times on December 21, 1995
Terms of Service
I received a complaint from Mr. Mann a few weeks ago (March 12th,
as I recall) concerning jade...@erols.com. While we at Erol's have an
obligation to the larger Internet community to prevent (as best we can) our
users from abusing the Internet, we also have an obligation to protect our
users from fallacious complaints against them. As you might imagine, one
of the methods used by rogues and scoundrels to harass their enemies is to
file bogus complaints about the behavior of their enemies.
So when I receive a complaint of the nature of Mr. Mann's, I
investigate first to find out both sides of the issue. Due to a variety of
factors (which shall not be repeated here in an effort to prevent the
crafty among you from modifying your approach), I concluded that Mr. Mann
was simply trying to cause jade...@erols.com some trouble by complaining
about him.
However, recent evidence has come to light which clearly indicates
I was incorrect in my conclusion. I would therefore like to publicly
apologize to Mr. Mann for my error. Our policies prohibit defamation and
abusive behavior. Jade...@erols.com engaged in the willful defamation of
Mr. Mann and engaged in abusive, harassing behavior. Therefore,
Jade...@erols.com is no longer an active account.
Gary Frazier
In <3339d4a5...@news.mindspring.com> ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>>ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>>
>>>Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>>
>>>>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
>>
>>> You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
>>>might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
>>>you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
>>>do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
>>>allies?
>>
>>No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
>>by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
> Hey, Brown: smarten up and pay attention:
> You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
>internet again. Not ever.
> Now, you don't have to believe me. Just hang around and
>watch.
> It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
>there is a good reason for that. It has to do with defamation with
>malice aforethought, and there is a lesson here. You would do well to
>figure it out.
Billy, you are as stupid as you post.
There's noting defaming about this. If you're going to take someone on,
take on the police agency that posted this.
Wayne Mann is wanted for murder. This is a fact. Wayne Thomas Mann is a
fugitive.
Cripes you people are utter maroons.
--
Gary
Gary Frazier
>In article <E7opp...@iglou.com>, bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>> > The *person* who was known to us as "Jade...@erols.com", is
>> >gone. Now, we all know that some other spectacularly foolish person
>> >could crank up an account at Erol's Internet Service, with the same
>> >username. And we also know that the person whose plug just got pulled
>> >will likely return to haunt us after hooking up a new account with a
>> >new service. (At which point that person will likely get bounced off
>> >the net for a *third* time.)
>>
>> Listen, you censorship-supporting fuckwock, I am going to start cracking
>> down on the right-wing sheepfuckers on Usenet. In fact, I've already
>> started.
> Would you be supporting censorship if you called my ISP to complain
>because I was daily sending you twelve megabyte text files attached to
>email which consisted of nothing but the phrase "Tom Brown is a flaming
>asshole" repeated endlessly?
> Why not?
Are you familiar with the term "denial of service" attack?
You people are unspeakably ignorant, naive, and just downright stupid.
Karl Auerbach
This wouldn't be half as ironic (and funny) if JadeGold's account hadn't
been publicaly terminated for the world to see, on account of "abusive,
harassing behavior."
Apparently there are some limits out there. Even for "you people."
Karl
Left is right (-e.s. rosen)
I have no problem with Jade having to pay the consequences for his childish
joke, I just hope that from now on Wayne Mann will practice what he
preaches. Last summer Wayne Mann "researched" who I was and posted to this
newsgroup the name of my employer, my academic field and where I lived.
After that my employer received a phone call telling them that they should
fire me.
Also, Wayne Mann has many times libeled me by stating that I am divorced and
that my spouse left me. This is a verifiable falsehood. I have never been
divorced. I have never been separated from my spouse. Given Mr. Mann's
previous example of researching my background, other posters were probably
misled into believing that he also research my marital background. Mr. Mann
did not do so. He made it up out of whole cloth. In other words Mr. Mann
lied about my being divorced. Last year I worried that some friend of mine
that I am no longer in regular contact with might see some of Wayne Mann's
posts and conclude that I was in fact divorced. It is because of this type
of harassment on the part of Wayne Mann that I started to post under a
pseudonym as many others do in this newsgroup. It must be noted that Billy
Beck did not get worked up when Wayne Mann was defaming the characters of
others with out and out falsehoods.
As a final note, when all of this was happening it did not even enter my
mind to try to get Wayne Mann thrown off his server for posting out and out
falsehoods about me. That is not my style. I can take care of myself. I
do not need to go running to others, snivelling that someone is "picking" on
me.
ding...@erinet.com
Left is right (-e.s. rosen) wrote:
> most crap snipped
>
> As a final note, when all of this was happening it did not even enter my
> mind to try to get Wayne Mann thrown off his server for posting out and out
> falsehoods about me. That is not my style. I can take care of myself. I
> do not need to go running to others, snivelling that someone is "picking" on
> me.
You have no style. And, after all you've already done/said to and about
Wayne Mann, I doubt evey you would have the nerve to complain about him.
Another thing, Toke, after being on the Internet for more than 2 years,
the spamming started only after you were outed as the former Lindsey Lee.
I'll never believe that anyone but you caused the spamming.
Good news, however, the word must have gotten around--7 now, have been
relieved of their accounts because of spaming--slowed down considerably.
Finally--you've lied so much, so often, I doubt that even you know the
truth about yourself. But then, doesn't matter, since no one cares about
you anyway.
Lay off Wayne Mann, Toke--he is a part of this group--you're a part of
nothing--take that to the bank. I'd venture to say that if you tried to
get him thrown off for bothering you, you'd have a fight on your hands;
you seem to forget that many of us know about all the e-mailing you did
with him, spilling your guts.
Kurt Nicklas
In article <5hjp24$4k...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
esr...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Left is right (-e.s. rosen)) wrote:
>
>I have no problem with Jade having to pay the consequences for his childish
>joke, I just hope that from now on Wayne Mann will practice what he
I have no idea what happened previously in this thread as I've been
'incommunicado' for some weeks due to some home remodeling. I will take this
opportunity to throw in my .02 worth on the subject of harassement.
'Left is Right' is a political science professor at the University of
Wisconsin. If I were a resident of the great state of Wisconsin I would
write to the head of the department, the head of the Wisconsin University
system and my state representative questioning the propriety of allowing
a political science professor at my state university using the resources
of my state to post biased political material to USENET. At a minimum,
I should think it would be an 'appearance of a conflict of interest.'
That the professor in question seems to blind to this conflict of interest
is, sadly, consistent with a tendency to be rather naive about the real world,
which would speak poorly about the U of W's hiring practices were this not
a trait of acedeme in general.
I would suggest to 'Left is Right' that he/she simply avoid the appearance of
a conflict of interest and lay out the $19.95 per month for an internet
account. Might solve a lot of problems.
Kurt Nicklas
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tiberias
pel...@naplesnet.com
In article <5hi26j$a...@garcia.efn.org>,
You _can't_ be serious. Nothing "defaming"? You should be a
lawyer/mouthpiece for the White House, as you lack the obvious ability to
note the difference between questions of legality, and questions of being
right or wrong.
So then, you wouldn't mind if someone put forth a url with a "Gary
Frazier" wanted for a capital crime, or as a released sex offender, or
any of a multitude of nasty, vile accusations that can be _easily and
legally_ placed on the 'net? Quick...post back that you _wouldn't_ care
which will only reinforce my belief in your own stability.
What has _happened_ to the Left? Do you have _NO_ principles left to you
in the era of Bill? That any action, no matter how reprehensible, is
perfectly okay, as long as it promotes your agenda?
Jade has attacked me long and often, and I have no problem with dealing
with those attacks. But when this was done, it is clearly way over the
line.
There are a number of people in this group who I have strong
disagreements with. I _would_ never consider an action such as jadegold
took as an "appropriate" way to refute their political views. That you
do, indicates a lack of responsibility, integrity, and any semblance to
civilized discourse. Perhaps you believe your "cause" so "right" that it
excuses it.
In this newsgroup, some of the "loyalists" routinely use obscene,
pornographic written images to state their opinions (and frankly they
have lost their ability to shock long ago) on Republicans and
conservatives; some have written that the Christian Coalition leaders and
Republicans are child molesters and sexual deviants, with no mention of
names, events, cites, or proof, and when confronted, then pronounce, "oh,
I didn't mean all of them"; have stated that those who politically
disagree with them perform acts of beastiality, and now, that _posters_
on this newsgroup who are not of the liberal "mindset" deserve to have
their name and reputation tied directly to accused murderers.
My...the left has come a _long_ way in a short time. It used to be mere
name calling (Nazis, fascists, homophobes, extremists, sexists, bigots,
mean- spirited, religious right wing fanatics, etc.) but you have now
taken it into a whole new era.
IOW, the left's passionate defence of "tolerance" and "empowerment" only
apply as long as 1) the left is in _total_ political power, and 2) you
agree with their political philosophy.
If the loyalists can defend jadegold's actions, and justify and
rationalize them, you have truly become adrift from the traditional
principles that this political movement started from.
This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Billy Beck
pel...@naplesnet.com wrote:
> gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>> Wayne Mann is wanted for murder. This is a fact. Wayne Thomas Mann is a
>> fugitive.
(...)
>This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
Billy
Gary Frazier
In <333eecc...@news.mindspring.com> ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>pel...@naplesnet.com wrote:
>> gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>>> Wayne Mann is wanted for murder. This is a fact. Wayne Thomas Mann is a
>>> fugitive.
> (...)
>>This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
>Billy
Don't you have anthing to say, Billy?
What's your problem, dumbass?
Gary Frazier
In <8597578...@dejanews.com> pel...@naplesnet.com writes:
>In article <5hi26j$a...@garcia.efn.org>,
> gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>>
>> In <3339d4a5...@news.mindspring.com> ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>>
>> >bath...@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:
>>
>> >>ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>> >>
>> >>>Jade...@erols.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>http://www.inform.umd.edu/UMS+State/MD_Resources/MDSP/mann.html
>> >>
>> >>> You're a vile little serpent, greenie. I cannot imagine what
>> >>>might drive a person to do the things that you do. What do you think
>> >>>you're going to gain from something like this? What possible credit
>> >>>do you believe can accrue to you or any who might call themselves your
>> >>>allies?
>> >>
>> >>No point in trying to hide the fact that ol' Waynie is wanted for murder
>> >>by the state of Maryland. THE TRUTH IS OUT, FOLKS!
>>
>> > Hey, Brown: smarten up and pay attention:
>>
>> > You will *never* see the username "Jade...@erols.com" on the
>> >internet again. Not ever.
>>
>> > Now, you don't have to believe me. Just hang around and
>> >watch.
>>
>> > It's true. That bloody despicable liar is outta here. And
>> >there is a good reason for that. It has to do with defamation with
>> >malice aforethought, and there is a lesson here. You would do well to
>> >figure it out.
>>
>> Billy, you are as stupid as you post.
>>
>> There's noting defaming about this. If you're going to take someone on,
>> take on the police agency that posted this.
>>
>> Wayne Mann is wanted for murder. This is a fact. Wayne Thomas Mann is a
>> fugitive.
>>
>> Cripes you people are utter maroons.
>> --
>> Gary
>>
>> gfra...@efn.org
>> http://www.efn.org/~gfrazier
>You _can't_ be serious. Nothing "defaming"? You should be a
>lawyer/mouthpiece for the White House, as you lack the obvious ability to
>note the difference between questions of legality, and questions of being
>right or wrong.
Bullshit. Nothing defaming at all. Someone named Wayne Mann is wanted
for murder. This is a fact. Just because mental defectives such as yourself
and Billy Beck can't understand the concept of reality isn't an excuse
to deny obvious truth.
>So then, you wouldn't mind if someone put forth a url with a "Gary
>Frazier" wanted for a capital crime, or as a released sex offender, or
>any of a multitude of nasty, vile accusations that can be _easily and
>legally_ placed on the 'net? Quick...post back that you _wouldn't_ care
>which will only reinforce my belief in your own stability.
Perhaps there >is< a "Gary Frazier" out there who is in such a situation.
I know what my situation is...what you think is irrelevant.
>What has _happened_ to the Left? Do you have _NO_ principles left to you
>in the era of Bill? That any action, no matter how reprehensible, is
>perfectly okay, as long as it promotes your agenda?
This is to laugh. You fuckwads do this every single day. Just look at
the current thread where some of your fellow Clintonophobes are attacking
Chelsea Clinton. Yeah, real class acts on the right, like that giant
balloon of pus Limbaugh.
>Jade has attacked me long and often, and I have no problem with dealing
>with those attacks. But when this was done, it is clearly way over the
>line.
Bullshit again. All jade did was post a legitmate URL about Wayne Thomas
Mann being wanted for murder. If you have a problem with this, you need
to take it up with the Maryland State Police, who published the web page.
>There are a number of people in this group who I have strong
>disagreements with. I _would_ never consider an action such as jadegold
>took as an "appropriate" way to refute their political views. That you
>do, indicates a lack of responsibility, integrity, and any semblance to
>civilized discourse. Perhaps you believe your "cause" so "right" that it
>excuses it.
Wayne Mann is documented to have engaged in attempts to get the accounts
of those he disagrees with pulled. I know this for a fact because he
tried to do it with me, whining that I was "disrupting" this newsgroup
for the crime of pointing out the utter idiocy of the conspiracy loons
who inhabit it...all patholigical Clintonophobes, who will believe
>anything< posted as long as it paints Clinton in a negative light.
>In this newsgroup, some of the "loyalists" routinely use obscene,
>pornographic written images to state their opinions (and frankly they
>have lost their ability to shock long ago) on Republicans and
>conservatives; some have written that the Christian Coalition leaders and
>Republicans are child molesters and sexual deviants, with no mention of
>names, events, cites, or proof, and when confronted, then pronounce, "oh,
>I didn't mean all of them"; have stated that those who politically
>disagree with them perform acts of beastiality, and now, that _posters_
>on this newsgroup who are not of the liberal "mindset" deserve to have
>their name and reputation tied directly to accused murderers.
Well, in fact there was a prominent member of the Christian Coaltion who
>is< known to be a child molester...the father of Susan Smith.
>My...the left has come a _long_ way in a short time. It used to be mere
>name calling (Nazis, fascists, homophobes, extremists, sexists, bigots,
>mean- spirited, religious right wing fanatics, etc.) but you have now
>taken it into a whole new era.
>IOW, the left's passionate defence of "tolerance" and "empowerment" only
>apply as long as 1) the left is in _total_ political power, and 2) you
>agree with their political philosophy.
>If the loyalists can defend jadegold's actions, and justify and
>rationalize them, you have truly become adrift from the traditional
>principles that this political movement started from.
>This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
Bullshit again. You wimps can dish it out, but you whine like little
babies when it's thrown back in your ugly faces.
I feel your pain as Clinton continues to cruise along at a 59% approval
rating, losers.
Rob Robertson
Gary Frazier wrote:
>
> In <333eecc...@news.mindspring.com> ain't...@tno.e-mail (Billy Beck) writes:
>
> >pel...@naplesnet.com wrote:
>
> >> gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>
> >>> fugitive.
>
>
> >>This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
>
>
> Don't you have anthing to say, Billy?
I believe Mr. Beck is distilling the thread to reveal the *salient*
point in the above exchange. He's letting you do all the talking, and
it seems to be quite effective.
> What's your problem, dumbass?
It would be more correct to phrase it as; "What's your problem? Dumbass?",
but that would be ad hominem as well as rhetorical.
> --
> Gary
>
> gfra...@efn.org
> http://www.efn.org/~gfrazier
-
Rob Robertson
Gary Frazier
>>Bullshit. Nothing defaming at all. Someone named Wayne Mann is wanted
>>for murder. This is a fact.
> I cannot think of any legitimate reason that someone would post a
>message entitled "WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL" in a newsgroup where one of
>the participants was named Wayne Mann. In my opinion, the only reason to
>post such a message is for purposes of harassment and/or defamation.
If you pulled anyone's account over this incident, then you're a dupe of
a group of vindictive conspiracy nuts who cannot countanance any dissent
in their little klatsch of hatred for Clinton.
It's sad that you were deceived by these cretins. Wayne Mann (the one
who posts to this newsgroup, not the wanted murderer) is notorious for
his mendacious attempts to stifle dissent and to "purify" "his"
newsgroup, which is a wretched collection of Clinton-hating losers. He
has lied in the past in an effort to suppress speech he doesn't like, and
he and his confederates will do it again. Mann has published an "enemies
list" masquerading as a kill file on numerous occasions. If Mann and his
confederates cannot stand the heat, they should get the hell off of the
USENET, create a mailing list where they can reinforce their paranoid
mindsets, and hide from the public scrutiny they so richly deserve.
Billy Beck
gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>ab...@erols.com (Terms of Service) writes:
>> I cannot think of any legitimate reason that someone would post a
>>message entitled "WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL" in a newsgroup where >>one of the participants was named Wayne Mann. In my opinion, the only >>reason to post such a message is for purposes of harassment and/or >>defamation.
>
>If you pulled anyone's account over this incident, then you're a dupe of
>a group of vindictive conspiracy nuts who cannot countanance any dissent
>in their little klatsch of hatred for Clinton.
This has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. And, it
is generous in the liberal extreme to even imply that JadeGold was a
"dissent[er]" over anything in this group. The fact is that virtually
nothing on-point of substance ever came here from that account.
>It's sad that you were deceived by these cretins. Wayne Mann (the one
>who posts to this newsgroup, not the wanted murderer) is notorious for
>his mendacious attempts to stifle dissent and to "purify" "his"
>newsgroup, which is a wretched collection of Clinton-hating losers. He
>has lied in the past in an effort to suppress speech he doesn't like, and
>he and his confederates will do it again. Mann has published an "enemies
>list" masquerading as a kill file on numerous occasions.
Rubbish. The killfile list is exactly what it was and nothing
more. It can in no way be compared with what JadeGold did, which you
defend as legitimate. Look around you, Gary: nobody is rushing to
your side on this matter because *both* sides of "partisan" disputes
around here understand precisely how bad that was. You can go ahead
and make all the noise you want about the "fact" of the coincidence of
the murder suspect's name with Wayne's. It will not, however,
mitigate the *intent* of that original post: to deliberately tag Wyane
Mann with something despicable that is in no way true. The *fact* is
that JadeGold played the coincidence...without explicating the
coincidence. Think about it: if that swine had come to the group with
a post saying, in effect, "Hey, look: here's a guy who's wanted for
murder in Maryland, and he has the same name as the guy we know from
California!"...it would not have had the required effect of drama and
scandal, would it? No. Which is also why the creep played it the way
he did.
You're just wrong, Frazier, and cheap about it, to boot.
Billy
Pat Parson
Billy Beck wrote:
> Rubbish. The killfile list is exactly what it was and nothing
> more. It can in no way be compared with what JadeGold did, which you
> defend as legitimate. Look around you, Gary: nobody is rushing to
> your side on this matter because *both* sides of "partisan" disputes
> around here understand precisely how bad that was. You can go ahead
> and make all the noise you want about the "fact" of the coincidence of
> the murder suspect's name with Wayne's. It will not, however,
> mitigate the *intent* of that original post: to deliberately tag Wyane
> Mann with something despicable that is in no way true. The *fact* is
> that JadeGold played the coincidence...without explicating the
> coincidence. Think about it: if that swine had come to the group with
> a post saying, in effect, "Hey, look: here's a guy who's wanted for
> murder in Maryland, and he has the same name as the guy we know from
> California!"...it would not have had the required effect of drama and
> scandal, would it? No. Which is also why the creep played it the way
> he did.
>
> Billy
> I have to agree with you on this one, Billy. I don't care much for Wayne,
but JadeGold or whoever was completely irresponsible. Apparently, his only
intent was to try to embarrass or intimidate Wayne.
Wayne has tried to get others off the NG, but at least he was man enough to
come out and do it directly. And in that, (at least) he was honest about it.
Pat
5
pel...@naplesnet.com
From - Mon Mar 31 19:39:09 1997
From: gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
Subject: Re: WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL
Date: 30 Mar 1997 22:40:21 -0800
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
In <8597578...@dejanews.com> pel...@naplesnet.com writes:
But I guess us "mental defectives" understand "the concept of reality"
enough to realize a simple "fact": that jade decided to try and link
someone on this newsgroup who jade wanted to smear by posting a URL of a
wanted murderer who _just_ happened to have the same name as the person
jade is trying to smear.
"defame": 1. archaic: DISGRACE 2. to harm the reputation by libel or
slander 3 archaic: ACCUSE. syn see MALIGN
"libel": 2(a) a written or oral defamatory statement or representation
that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression. (b) (1): a statement or
representation published without just cause and tending to expose
another to public contempt (2): defamation of a person by written or
representational means
"slander": 1: the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which
defame and damage another's reputation @: a false and defamatory
statement oral statement about a person
(Webster's Dictionary)
In case you would like to learn the _meaning_ of the terms you obviously
don't understand.
>So then, you wouldn't mind if someone put forth a url with a "Gary
>Frazier" wanted for a capital crime, or as a released sex offender, or
>any of a multitude of nasty, vile accusations that can be _easily and
>legally_ placed on the 'net? Quick...post back that you _wouldn't_ care
>which will only reinforce my belief in your own stability.
:Perhaps there >is< a "Gary Frazier" out there who is in such a
situation.
:I know what my situation is...what you think is irrelevant.
Fine. How about your employer, family, children, friends, co-workers, or
fellow church members? Perhaps they _don't_ know your situation, and may
just believe this?
>What has _happened_ to the Left? Do you have _NO_ principles left to you
>in the era of Bill? That any action, no matter how reprehensible, is
>perfectly okay, as long as it promotes your agenda?
:This is to laugh. You fuckwads do this every single day. Just look at
:the current thread where some of your fellow Clintonophobes are
attacking
:Chelsea Clinton. Yeah, real class acts on the right, like that giant
:balloon of pus Limbaugh.
First, I haven't got the original "Chelsea" post, so I don't know what
Chelsea is supposed to be "wrong" about, and personally I don't think
Chelsea should be brought into discussions of concerning the political
actions of Bill and Hill. Fair enough?
At the same time, the Clintons ought to be smart enough to keep her out
of the fray because the seventeen year old daughter of the First Couple
is immaterial to the political debate. IOW, she _shouldn't_ be used to
make political points, but why would this bother the mercenary politics
of Bill Clinton?
>Jade has attacked me long and often, and I have no problem with dealing
>with those attacks. But when this was done, it is clearly way over the
>line.
:Bullshit again. All jade did was post a legitmate URL about Wayne
Thomas
:Mann being wanted for murder. If you have a problem with this, you
need
:to take it up with the Maryland State Police, who published the web
page.
Which has _what_ to do with _this_ newsgroup idiot? A public service
message for us? A warning? Why _did_ he post it?
You seem to feel the Maryland State Police are to blame. Why? Ever been
inside a Post Office? What are those pictures on the wall? Who are those
people? The MSP has not _violated_ the rights of this accused murderer,
who is at large.
>There are a number of people in this group who I have strong
>disagreements with. I _would_ never consider an action such as jadegold
>took as an "appropriate" way to refute their political views. That you
>do, indicates a lack of responsibility, integrity, and any semblance to
>civilized discourse. Perhaps you believe your "cause" so "right" that it
>excuses it.
:Wayne Mann is documented to have engaged in attempts to get the
accounts
:of those he disagrees with pulled. I know this for a fact because he
:tried to do it with me, whining that I was "disrupting" this newsgroup
:for the crime of pointing out the utter idiocy of the conspiracy loons
:who inhabit it...all patholigical Clintonophobes, who will believe
:>anything< posted as long as it paints Clinton in a negative light.
Please make your case with your "documentation".
>In this newsgroup, some of the "loyalists" routinely use obscene,
>pornographic written images to state their opinions (and frankly they
>have lost their ability to shock long ago) on Republicans and
>conservatives; some have written that the Christian Coalition leaders and
>Republicans are child molesters and sexual deviants, with no mention of
>names, events, cites, or proof, and when confronted, then pronounce, "oh,
>I didn't mean all of them"; have stated that those who politically
>disagree with them perform acts of beastiality, and now, that _posters_
>on this newsgroup who are not of the liberal "mindset" deserve to have
>their name and reputation tied directly to accused murderers.
:Well, in fact there was a prominent member of the Christian Coaltion
who
:>is< known to be a child molester...the father of Susan Smith.
Well...that's *one*. Using this logic, all House Democrats screw minors
because Mel Reynolds is now serving time for that very offense.
>My...the left has come a _long_ way in a short time. It used to be mere
>name calling (Nazis, fascists, homophobes, extremists, sexists, bigots,
>mean- spirited, religious right wing fanatics, etc.) but you have now
>taken it into a whole new era.
>IOW, the left's passionate defence of "tolerance" and "empowerment" only
>apply as long as 1) the left is in _total_ political power, and 2) you
>agree with their political philosophy.
>If the loyalists can defend jadegold's actions, and justify and
>rationalize them, you have truly become adrift from the traditional
>principles that this political movement started from.
>This is a pathetic rationalization of the indefensible.
:Bullshit again. You wimps can dish it out, but you whine like little
:babies when it's thrown back in your ugly faces.
Perhaps you should understand that *public* figures such as your hero,
the President, are "fair" game for vicious attacks. Perhaps these
figures do not deserve these attacks, but there is little they can do to
stop them. You may consider _your_ own attacks on Paula Jones as an
indication of such unfair accusations. Or attacks on Newt Gingrich.
But the point of the matter, _you_ are protected from such attacks, as
is Wayne Mann. The internet is a public forum, reaching millions. Those
who disagree with _your_ political views and simplistic notions who did
as jadegold did to Mann, by publishing absolutely false, defaming
information about "_a_" Gary Frazier would be equally attacked by me.
I hope it never happens to you, and I mean that. No _one_ on this
newsgroup deserves to be publicly smeared as this. Obviously, this
concept is above you. So be it.
:I feel your pain as Clinton continues to cruise along at a 59% approval
:rating, losers.
<snicker> Better check your numbers Gary. You are a few months behind.
Tim Brown
gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) writes:
>If you pulled anyone's account over this incident, then you're a dupe of
>a group of vindictive conspiracy nuts who cannot countanance any dissent
>in their little klatsch of hatred for Clinton.
>It's sad that you were deceived by these cretins. Wayne Mann (the one
>who posts to this newsgroup, not the wanted murderer) is notorious for
>his mendacious attempts to stifle dissent and to "purify" "his"
>newsgroup, which is a wretched collection of Clinton-hating losers. He
>has lied in the past in an effort to suppress speech he doesn't like, and
>he and his confederates will do it again. Mann has published an "enemies
>list" masquerading as a kill file on numerous occasions. If Mann and his
>confederates cannot stand the heat, they should get the hell off of the
>USENET, create a mailing list where they can reinforce their paranoid
>mindsets, and hide from the public scrutiny they so richly deserve.
AMEN! I am proud to be on Wayne Mann's Enemies List not once, but twice.
The man is a hypocrite in many ways. Almost daily, he sent out a LENGTHY
e-zine on the World According To Wayne and how Clinton is the archenemy of
the universe. This newsletter was sent to hundreds of people whether they
wanted it or not, yet he criticizes ME for failing to cancel subscriptions
to my newsletter, The Last Word. One of his catchphrases is: "Many
headers trimmed down to ONE, why doesn't everyone?" Yet in October, he
posted his legendary "Lulu" harangue to 57 newsgroups!
Martin McPhillips
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:02:55 -0800, Pat Parson <ppar...@swbell.net> wrote:
>Billy Beck wrote:
>
>> Rubbish. The killfile list is exactly what it was and nothing
>> more. It can in no way be compared with what JadeGold did, which you
>> defend as legitimate. Look around you, Gary: nobody is rushing to
>> your side on this matter because *both* sides of "partisan" disputes
>> around here understand precisely how bad that was. You can go ahead
>> and make all the noise you want about the "fact" of the coincidence of
>> the murder suspect's name with Wayne's. It will not, however,
>> mitigate the *intent* of that original post: to deliberately tag Wyane
>> Mann with something despicable that is in no way true. The *fact* is
>> that JadeGold played the coincidence...without explicating the
>> coincidence. Think about it: if that swine had come to the group with
>> a post saying, in effect, "Hey, look: here's a guy who's wanted for
>> murder in Maryland, and he has the same name as the guy we know from
>> California!"...it would not have had the required effect of drama and
>> scandal, would it? No. Which is also why the creep played it the way
>> he did.
>>
>> Billy
>>
>
>I have to agree with you on this one, Billy. I don't care much for Wayne,
>but JadeGold or whoever was completely irresponsible. Apparently, his only
>intent was to try to embarrass or intimidate Wayne.
JadeGold was about one click west of you, Pat, and
a "pure" proponent of a stance on Usenet that you
helped pioneer. Whoever JadeGold was, he, she or
it was doing nothing more than what you and Hanson,
Kennemur, Thornsberry, Henry and the rest of the gang
began doing when you hit the shores together on or
about Jan. 1, 1996.
So hold the pious assessments. You are as much JadeGold
as JadeGold is you. There's not a dimes worth of difference
between you. JadeGold just got thrown off one ISP and
could just as easily be back tomorrow as "Hanse."
>Wayne has tried to get others off the NG, but at least he was man enough to
>come out and do it directly. And in that, (at least) he was honest about it.
>
Wayne Mann had a natural and healthy reaction to the
murder of the Usenet political groups, the intentional
destruction by you and your colleagues of the viability
of those fora through massive posting and crossposting,
beginning on Jan. 1, 1996, with *you* in the thick of the
action in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, where you hung your
hat for about 6 weeks, after which you were "away" for
a while, and then returned, picking right up where you left
off.
But, oh dear goodness me, did you *ever* make
the very worst mistakes.
Billy Beck
Rob Robertson <rr...@gte.com> wrote:
>Gary Frazier wrote:
>> What's your problem, dumbass?
>
> It would be more correct to phrase it as; "What's your problem? Dumbass?",
>but that would be ad hominem as well as rhetorical.
In no way incorrect, however.
Billy
wol...@econo.net
On 31 Mar 1997 13:02:32 -0800, gfra...@efn.org (Gary Frazier) wrote:
>In <333faf20...@news.erols.com> ab...@erols.com (Terms of Service) writes:
>
>>>Bullshit. Nothing defaming at all. Someone named Wayne Mann is wanted
>>>for murder. This is a fact.
>
>> I cannot think of any legitimate reason that someone would post a
>>message entitled "WAYNE MANN: WANTED CRIMINAL" in a newsgroup where one of
>>the participants was named Wayne Mann. In my opinion, the only reason to
>>post such a message is for purposes of harassment and/or defamation.
>
>If you pulled anyone's account over this incident, then you're a dupe of
>a group of vindictive conspiracy nuts who cannot countanance any dissent
>in their little klatsch of hatred for Clinton.
>
>It's sad that you were deceived by these cretins. Wayne Mann (the one
>who posts to this newsgroup, not the wanted murderer) is notorious for
>his mendacious attempts to stifle dissent and to "purify" "his"
>newsgroup, which is a wretched collection of Clinton-hating losers. He
>has lied in the past in an effort to suppress speech he doesn't like, and
>he and his confederates will do it again. Mann has published an "enemies
>list" masquerading as a kill file on numerous occasions. If Mann and his
>confederates cannot stand the heat, they should get the hell off of the
>USENET, create a mailing list where they can reinforce their paranoid
>mindsets, and hide from the public scrutiny they so richly deserve.
>
>--
> Gary
>
>gfra...@efn.org
>http://www.efn.org/~gfrazier
He sounds like Clinton
Wolf
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Mankind believes in something he cannot comprehend
and comprehends something he cannot believe
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Dem truth is one Dem agreeing with another Dem.
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The worst inequality, is trying to make something not
equal, equal