I would counsel a paridigm shift in basic thinking on this
subject. Imagine using those wasted millions on Steel Rail
and investing in a wiser course of development.
A LIVE-WORK-PLAY city plan that encourages building new
communities in new settings that would NOT require MASS
TRANSPORT Steel Rail,

Let me suggest that "may" help the problem, but it would not "solve" the
problem.  The problem is population growth.

"John W. Bienko" <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fv4kdr$ruo$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

Jerry is technically correct. But population growth is inevitable.
I have provided a solution to the problem that would be a brand
new way of lifestyle.. less dependent on roads and rails.
Placing people at the highest priority.. stopping the madness
in the current planning cycle that will end in a financial
catastrophe for Hawaiians.
Time is the most precious resource.. and lond distance
commuting is a waste of valuable time. Mass Transit and Steel Rail
do NOT serve the people. It just makes money for special
interest corporations and politicians.
I have written about this in the other Alt Hawaii Culture
but for some strange reason the message is NOT shown there.

"John W. Bienko" <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fv5f8o$c09$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

Let me suggest that "population" growth "is" inevitable for many part of the
world, but it may not be "inevitable" on Oahu.  Recent data indicates that
the people of Hawaii are leaving Hawaii.  Population is increasing because
people who are not living in Hawaii now, are coming to Hawaii.  That does
not mean, that trend will continue.

Let me suggest, that the "finanical catastrophe" in Hawaii is due to a
number of factors, which has very little to do with were people live.  The
"financial catstrophe", if that is the term we want to use, has to do with
the simple fact that people do not earn enough money to meet their basic
needs (whatever their basic needs may be) other than those who have a well
paying job, and those who are rich.  That is why in Hawaii, many familes
have multiple people working multiple jobs.  It would not be as big a
problem as it is, "if" we can figure out how to bring good paying jobs to
this State.  And I would add the high cost of living, the taxation rate, the
many obstacles that our government puts in front of anyone who wants to
start a business in this State does not help, but hurts that effort.

Well, yes it is.  But that does not mean they will not commute.

Mass Transit and Steel Rail

As I recall, your basic idea is to have "planned communities" where people
are closer to the place they work.  As I see it, there is a basic problem
with that idea.  Let us assume you do create such a community.  That means
in order for this idea to work, you need the businesses to be within the
community that they will work.  As I see the problem, the days when we
worked for one establishment for our entire career is fast disappearing.
The odds are that people will "move" from one job to another, during their
working life.  And many will hold many many different employers in their
working life.  And businesses will come and go, along with the jobs they
create.   So, you create such a community.  People move into that community
because the job is in the community.  Then the job disappears, or the
"people" find someone else who will pay more for their services, who is not
located in that community.  In either case, these people who do that, will
no longer be within a short distance to their work place.   So, while you
may start out with an "efficient" system, over time, it will not be as
"efficient" as it began.

Jerry.. you are perceptive and wise.. and I compliment you
on your analysis,
I suggest that the current concentration of work  opportunities
in city centers is unsustainable.. and destined for
catastrophe. See New York and Los Angeles.. the worst
place on earth to live and raise a family. Crime .. pollution..
Now reflect on my suggestion and I challenge readers to
find a way to make it work in their best interests.
I harken back to early development of towns and cities.
In Quebec City I have walked through Old Quebec.. lined with
streets where early businesses were located. The stores were
facing the  streets . The work as done in the back rooms and
yards.
The owner and family lived on the 2nd and 3rd floors.
The workers and apprentices lived in buildings behind the
establishment, separated by a back alley.
To my amazement Old Quebec is undergoing restoration..
retrogressing to the old business model.. very successfully.
Now high end Armani.. Ralph Lauren.. businesses are
paying high rents to operate in the area.
Again I state that someone in Soc. Hawai`i has blocked my
contributions on this subject.. an dnow I will never post
there.
Deus te amat

"John W. Bienko" <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fv7a6b$b6e$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

I see a disconnect between what you said earlier and what you are saying
now.  We started this conversation with a suggestion that the "solution" to
the problem you described is some sort of "planned community", where the
workers in that community live near their workplace.  One of the problems I
would think the workers who are working and living in this new "revitalize"
Quebec face, is basically the same problem the people of Oahu face.  That is
the cost to living.  And I would think that the cost to put a roof over your
head would be a whole lot more expensive living within a city center, then
it would be to live out in the outskirts of the city, because of the cost of
land.  It seems to me there is a basic tradeoff issue here.  To live near
your workplace, you will be paying more to put a roof over your head, and
that roof may not be as nice as the roof you could afford to put over your
head, "if" you did not live near your workplace.   And there is a small
matter of where you go to buy the food you need to live.  "If" there is a
supermarket within a short distance of where you live, then your cost of
living is less.  But "if" there is not supermarket within a short distance
of where you live, then your cost of livng is more.  And of course there is
the not too small matter of how you get to that supermarket, "if" it is not
close to where you live, which to me translates to needing a car, which then
brings up another problem, even if you have a car, where would you put it in
the city center you live in.

"John W. Bienko" <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fv4kdr$ruo$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

It's no use.  The leadership of this state is at least 50 years behind the
time.  The Mayor has stated he will kill anything that is not "steel on
rail", when that is the least desirable of options.  That, and the fact that
if built, the rail system will only reduce the traffic by about 2%.

We need to make it harder for people to own vehicles.  We need to make it
more palatable for people to use the bus system.  We need to double deck the
freeways like they did in California.  But none of this will get done,
because of the mental grid-lock of our legislators.  Yet the state keeps
electing the same old idiots over and over again.

Honu

news:n6OdnVa519XTloXVnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@hawaiiantel.net...

Why do you want to taake away a persons right to make their own decision of
how they want to get around?

We need to make it

How do you do that?

We need to double deck the

Where are the "double decked" freeways are in Los Angeles?  And even when
they "double deck" the freways did that solve the problem?

But none of this will get done,

Or maybe because whatever option you consider it has its advantages and
disadvantages?

Yet the state keeps

The "State" does not elect these people, we the people in the State elect
these people.  So, "if" they are "idiots" that means the people in the State
who voted for them, are the "idiots", don't you think?  Of course having
said that, maybe regardless of who we elect, nothing much will change.  Or
perahps this state has a problem because one party has been in firm control
of the government for an awful long time.  In any event, complaining about
the problem does not solve the perceived problem it seems to me.

Jerry is an track..
Imagine the wonderful lifestyle .. if the International Place
property was rebuilt as a LIVE-WORK_PLAY concept that I am
promoting.
Here in the very center of Waikiki.. the people would have the
perfect opportunity to LIVE   WORK  PLAY   with all the
wonders of everything OAHU can offer .. and NOT waste a
single second of their lives commuting.. and NOT wasting
an iota of scarce natural resources.
THis concept could be replicated at various other locations
with the same benefits to all the residents..
in Ala Moana... at the UNiversity... at Kapiolani..
at Kakaako..
at Waikiki Ewa..  at
In the event a resident decides to take employment in another
locale.. he/she has the option to sell and move to the
new LIVE  WORK  PLAY  place..
thereby avoiding all the hassle and waste that communting
and STEEL  RAIL  forces on the taxpayer.

news:48189f13$0$4075$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

No, of course not. There are simply too many vehicles on the road, many of
them being operated by persons who do not know how to drive.

Make it cheaper.  Make it island wide.  expand the coverage, mopre frequent
busses, etc. The Bus has already made little progress in this area.

Guess you've never been to California?  And yes, it made the commute much,
much faster.

By the "state". I meant the voters in Hawaii.

  So, "if" they are "idiots" that means the people in the State

The average voter in Hawaii doesn't vote for whom is best...

 don't you think?  Of course having

That attitude is as much to blame for our current situation as anything
else.  The "good ol' Boy" system in Hawaii has to change.  A freeway project
or roadwork project that would take two weeks in the mainland takes years
here in Hawaii.  I know...Ilived in the mainland.  I lived in the snow belt,
in an area where heavy salt was used to keep the roads clear in the winter.
Every year, vast stretches of highway and surface streets would be repaved.
Here in Hawaii, a 2.3 mile stretch of road just past my home is being
repaved.  So far, it has taken 8 and a half months. and the project has
barely done anything.  In the mainland, the work would have been finished in
perhaps 3 to 4 days.

The amount of fraud and waste when it comes to public works in this state is
truly frightening.  I wonder what would happen  if the federal government
ever decided to investigate?

  Or

Yet the "PEOPLE* keep electing the same party that never changes anything.
Perhaps it is time to get rid of the democrats (yeah...like that isever
going to happen...)

In any event, complaining about

*NOT*  complaining is the same as approving what is going on.  That is
another thing that bothers me about Hawaii...no one ever complains.  Perhaps
if more people  *DID* complain, it might make a difference.

Honu

"John W. Bienko" <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fvb30h$gcn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

What about the other 95% of the population who do not live or recreate in
Waikiki?
What about the other 95% that do not like the tourist traps and high prices
that have become Waikiki? And what about the other 95% that are not student
and faculty at UH Manoa?

It is sad that the people of Hawaii are ignored when decisions are being
made about the "transportation problem" in Hawaii.

The problem exists everywhere...not just in Waikiki or Manoa...but since
that is where the money is...they are the ones that will get a "solution",
no matter how inappropriate that solution may be.

Honu