Re: Barack Hussein Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya and not in Hawaii.
Tom
<fr...@spamexpire-200811.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
> http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/10/october-
> surprise-barack-obama-born-in-the-coast-provincial-general-
> hospital-at-mombassa-kenya-at-724-pm-on-august-4th.html
>
> Reports quote information that certified copies of a Kenyan
> Birth Certificate (BC) for Obama were sent from Kenya, and have
> been received by three separate individuals.
>
> And that these documents are certified, with an embossed seal,
> and display the name of the hospital where Obama was born, as
> well as witness signatures.
>
> Reportedly this BC reflects information filed Oct. 9 by Philip
> Berg. See item #18 on this docket, page 10, the relevant
> language of which, underlined in red, is captured here in a
> screen shot:
> Barack Hussein Obama II
> By Judah Benjamin,
>
> It has been asserted by a number of sources, including Andy
> Martin, that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya and
> not in Hawaii.
>
> Philip Berg’s Latest Motion to the Court is more explicit since
> it gives an exact Place of Birth. I must assume that Berg did
> not simply pluck the Location out of thin air, Mombasa has more
> than one Hospital, though Coast Provincial General was the best
> in 1961.
>
> British Birth Certificates have a Standard Format which has been
> more or less the same since 1837 and they can only be challenged
> in a British Court. Kenyan Law is explicit and can only be
> challenged in a Kenyan Court. Indonesian Law is explicit and can
> only be challenged in an Indonesian Court. Be clear, if Obama
> was born in Kenya this is not simply a matter for the US Courts,
> or US Law.
>
> If he was born in Kenya, and his parents were Legally Married
> [which on the Preponderance of Evidence they were, his father's
> first "Marriage" being a Tribal, or Village, Marriage, which was
> not Legally Recognized] due to the age of his mother he would
> NOT have been a US Citizen. The Immigration and Nationality Act
> 1952, 8 U.S.C. 1401. Sec. 301 (g) [Effective November 14, 1986]
> does not apply, nor does Title III, Immigration and Nationality
> Act Section 309. [8 U.S.C. 1409].
>
> Unless he has taken the Oath of Allegiance as a Naturalized
> Citizen since he was 18 years old, and if he was born in
> Mombasa, Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama II would not be a US
> Citizen, period. The issue of whether or not he was Natural Born
> under Article II of the Constitution of the United States would
> cease to matter and he would need to be Deported as an Illegal
> Alien.
>
> Impeachment as a Senator would seem not to be necessary since he
> would never Legally have been one, but Diane Feinstein and the
> members of the Senate Ethics and Rules Committee would be liable
> to Impeachment. So would their opposite numbers in the Illinois
> Senate and the appropriate officials of the Illinois State
> Supreme Court and Bar, so far as I can see.
>
> If Senator Barack Hussein Obama II was born in The Coast
> Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7.24 PM on
> August 4th 1961, or at any other time, he is not a Natural Born
> Citizen of these United States and he never was. Philip J Berg,
> Esq, is correct, under the Nationality Act of 1940, as Revised
> June 1952 and in accord with United States of America vs
> Cervantes-Nava 281 F 3d 501 (2002) and Drozd vs INS, 155 F 3d
> 81, 85-88 (2d Circuit 1998) Senator Barack Hussein Obama II
> would not ever have been a Legal US Citizen at all, unless he
> was Naturalized.
>
> If he was born in The Coast Provincial General Hospital at
> Mombasa in Kenya any Certificate, or Certification of Live
> Birth, issued for him by the State of Hawaii is a Fraudulent and
> Illegal Document. At Birth he would have been a UK and Colonies
> Citizen and in accord with the Kenyan Constitution he would have
> become a Kenyan Citizen in December 1963. He would not have been
> a US Citizen.
>
> Alternatively, his UK and Colonies Birth Certificate issued in
> Mombasa in August 1961 could be a Fraudulent and Illegal
> Document. The two BCs would need to be compared. By this I mean
> the Original Vault Copy of the Hawaiian Birth Certificate and
> not the Amended, Post Adoption, Copy, Legally available to the
> Senator, assuming he was, as indicated by the Preponderance of
> Evidence, Adopted by Lolo Soetoro.
>
> This case might also need to go through the UK and Kenyan Courts
> and becomes a Matter of International Law and Controversy.
Sieg Hiel!
Douche bag.
Tom
WQ
--- Even if at all true, I'm sure an exception will be made by the
Supreme Court, just as they made an exception for George Bush to steal
the election from Gore in 2000.
retired54
h...@nospam.com
<fr...@spamexpire-200811.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
>http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/10/october-
>surprise-barack-obama-born-in-the-coast-provincial-general-
>hospital-at-mombassa-kenya-at-724-pm-on-august-4th.html
give it up pig fucker. This myth has been debunked long ago. Your
lies will not save you people now. Only make you look as stupid as
you really are.
Hal
RFI-EMI-GUY
(bullshit snipped)
You are another example of why there should be IQ tests to vote at an
election. This rumor has been debunked for months. It is BS like all the
other garbage spewed by the Karl Rove Krowd.
--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©
"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
"Follow The Money" ;-P
William December Starr
-- wds
Gunner Asch
So you really dont want to have Obamas citizenship verified, hence
removing all doubts about his legal ability to be President?
Is there something you are worried about Tommy?
Have you been frothing at the mouth in support ofr someone perhaps who
has lied to you, and you have drunk his Kool-Aid?
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
Gunner Asch
SCOTUS cannot make an exception to the Constitution. That takes a
Constitutional Convention, or a finding that the requirement is
unConstitutional. Not gonna happen.
Odd though that its well disproven that Bush stole anything in any
elections, even admitted by the Democrats.
On the other hand..the far left radical fringe kook extremists still
keep up the mantra, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Gunner Asch
Keep hoping Hal...keep hoping.
If its true, will you slit your writs on YouTube, or simply leap out
the window in a tall building?
Ruud
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:qn3tg4tktcamignqs...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 16:14:40 -0800 (PST), WQ <WQi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 2, 7:01 pm, Fritz Wuehler
>><fr...@spamexpire-200811.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
>>> http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/10/october-
>>> surprise-barack-obama-born-in-the-coast-provincial-general-
>>> hospital-at-mombassa-kenya-at-724-pm-on-august-4th.html
Bullshit clipped.
His mom is an American. Obama could be born in Russia or China and he still
would be a naturally born American. But hey of course you would not know the
difference between the law and wishfull thinking.
R
retired54
Ubiquitous
>Even if at all true, I'm sure an exception will be made by the
>Supreme Court, just as they made an exception for George Bush to steal
>the election from Gore in 2000.
Ha ha ha! Still pimping that long-debunked Angry Left myth?
--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
Ubiquitous
>Reports quote information that certified copies of a Kenyan
>Birth Certificate (BC) for Obama were sent from Kenya, and have
>been received by three separate individuals.
>
>And that these documents are certified, with an embossed seal,
>and display the name of the hospital where Obama was born, as
>well as witness signatures.
Still pimping that stupid myth?
Do you REALLY think the DNC didn't review Obama's credentials when he applied?
David Johnston
<fr...@spamexpire-200811.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
>
>Philip Berg’s Latest Motion to the Court is more explicit since
>it gives an exact Place of Birth. I must assume that Berg did
>not simply pluck the Location out of thin air,
And why would you assume that?
Dano
>
> This case might also need to go through the UK and Kenyan Courts
> and becomes a Matter of International Law and Controversy.
Yeah. Right after Bush and Cheney are tried by the International Court of
Justice for their war crimes...oh...wait...we don't accept their
jurisdiction. Oh drat!
I have a hunch that the rest of the world is a bit more concerned about the
criminality of this outgoing administration than about any silly questions
about Obama's citizenship.
retired54
"Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:genm84$3qc$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
idle hands do the devils work.
Dano
>
> So you really dont want to have Obamas citizenship verified, hence
> removing all doubts about his legal ability to be President?
>
> Is there something you are worried about Tommy?
>
> Have you been frothing at the mouth in support ofr someone perhaps who
> has lied to you, and you have drunk his Kool-Aid?
>
No you ignorant twit. The question has been asked and answered. Only a
handful of irrational right wing loons...like you...continue to question.
I'm convinced the stupidity of the right...in wasting time on foolish crap
like this...and Rev. Wright...and Bill Ayers is a large part of the reason
for the growing gap between the support for Obama versus McCain. All this
does is certify that your side is intellectually bankrupt and mired in
negativity and deceit. Thank you for your help. The Republican party will
actually be better off when you frauds are marginalized by your own party
and some true conservativism and moderation returns.
Curly Surmudgeon
Be glad the right wing wackos behave in such a juvenile, malicious,
transparent, manner. The sheer meanness of the McCain campaign is why
Obama is winning, not Barak's credentials.
No, I'm voting write-in for Ron Paul.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, Seriously, Why Did We Invade Iraq
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dano
> Be glad the right wing wackos behave in such a juvenile, malicious,
> transparent, manner. The sheer meanness of the McCain campaign is why
> Obama is winning, not Barak's credentials.
>
> No, I'm voting write-in for Ron Paul.
You and my whacky 85 year old uncle. LOL. At you...not with you.
strabo
What would it mean to you if Obama is not an American citizen?
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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strabo
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:34:32 -0500, Dano wrote:
>
>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> So you really dont want to have Obamas citizenship verified, hence
>>> removing all doubts about his legal ability to be President?
>>>
>>> Is there something you are worried about Tommy?
>>>
>>> Have you been frothing at the mouth in support ofr someone perhaps who
>>> has lied to you, and you have drunk his Kool-Aid?
>>>
>>>
>> No you ignorant twit. The question has been asked and answered. Only a
>> handful of irrational right wing loons...like you...continue to question.
>> I'm convinced the stupidity of the right...in wasting time on foolish crap
>> like this...and Rev. Wright...and Bill Ayers is a large part of the reason
>> for the growing gap between the support for Obama versus McCain. All this
>> does is certify that your side is intellectually bankrupt and mired in
>> negativity and deceit. Thank you for your help. The Republican party
>> will actually be better off when you frauds are marginalized by your own
>> party and some true conservativism and moderation returns.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>
> Be glad the right wing wackos behave in such a juvenile, malicious,
> transparent, manner. The sheer meanness of the McCain campaign is why
> Obama is winning, not Barak's credentials.
>
> No, I'm voting write-in for Ron Paul.
>
Are you a citizen of the U.S.?
Bob Brock
wrote:
>Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:34:32 -0500, Dano wrote:
>>
>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>> So you really dont want to have Obamas citizenship verified, hence
>>>> removing all doubts about his legal ability to be President?
>>>>
>>>> Is there something you are worried about Tommy?
>>>>
>>>> Have you been frothing at the mouth in support ofr someone perhaps who
>>>> has lied to you, and you have drunk his Kool-Aid?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> No you ignorant twit. The question has been asked and answered. Only a
>>> handful of irrational right wing loons...like you...continue to question.
>>> I'm convinced the stupidity of the right...in wasting time on foolish crap
>>> like this...and Rev. Wright...and Bill Ayers is a large part of the reason
>>> for the growing gap between the support for Obama versus McCain. All this
>>> does is certify that your side is intellectually bankrupt and mired in
>>> negativity and deceit. Thank you for your help. The Republican party
>>> will actually be better off when you frauds are marginalized by your own
>>> party and some true conservativism and moderation returns.
>>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>
>> Be glad the right wing wackos behave in such a juvenile, malicious,
>> transparent, manner. The sheer meanness of the McCain campaign is why
>> Obama is winning, not Barak's credentials.
>>
>> No, I'm voting write-in for Ron Paul.
>>
>
>Are you a citizen of the U.S.?
You are starting to sound like cheesy now.
William December Starr
"Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com> said:
Hey, it may not be the best that you or I could hope for but it's
still a vote cast for not-McCain.
-- wds
William December Starr
David Johnston <da...@block.net> said:
> Fritz Wuehler
> <fr...@spamexpire-200811.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
>
>> Philip Berg's Latest Motion to the Court is more explicit since
>> it gives an exact Place of Birth. I must assume that Berg did not
>> simply pluck the Location out of thin air,
>
> And why would you assume that?
Because he _must_, of course. (Duh.)
-- wds
strabo
That's a straight-up question. As I recall Curly says he moved
permanently to Argentina.
Dano
"retired54" <ne...@mind.com> wrote in message
news:N4JPk.110179$Mh5....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
his current form?
Bob Brock
wrote:
I never had any thoughts that he had renounced his US citizenship. My
wife has permanently moved to the United States and hasn't made any
moves towards changing her citizenship. She would still have
Colombian citizenship even if she did.
When has he said anything to make you think that he has renounced his
citizenship? In fact, his announcing who he is voting for would make
me believe that the opposite is true.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
everyones satisifaction?
Is there some reason you are so resistant to the idea? Are you
another far leftwing extremist fringe kook Kool-aid drinker?
It would appear so.
Gunner
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>>
>>So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
>>everyones satisifaction?
>
>His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
>that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
clouddreamer
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:25 -0600, Alric Knebel <al...@cableone.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
>>> everyones satisifaction?
>> His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
>> that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>
>
> Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
Ah...yes..it does.
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.
Gunner Asch
<Get.Out....@bama.needs.you> wrote:
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:25 -0600, Alric Knebel <al...@cableone.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
>>>> everyones satisifaction?
>>> His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
>>> that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>>
>>
>> Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
>
>
>Ah...yes..it does.
Ah..no it doesnt.
>
>
> ..
VT VirtualTruth
he will not be sworn in.
End of story.
clouddreamer
> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
> he will not be sworn in.
<sigh> He has proven he is American born. D'uh.
The Hawaiian state government has come out and made it clear. He was
born in Hawaii.
End of story.
GTL
44a5-9b2f-f...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
> he will not be sworn in.
>
> End of story.
>
Uh, I kinnda think the State of Hawaii settled that when they produced his
birth certificate.
David Johnston
<TheVirt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
>he will not be sworn in.
Also, if Obama turns out to be a legally dead vampire, he will not be
sworn in.
strabo
He shouldn't be sworn in on several counts but the
powers which run both McCain and Obama also dictate the
actions of others.
With the cooperation of Congress and the SCOTUS, Bush has
performed extraordinarily unconstitutional feats - his
preemptive wars doctrine, unitary presidency, 'signing
statements' and secret plans for the continuity of government.
The final nail in the coffin of lawful government was the
agreement to give the Secretary of Treasury absolute
power over the monetary system and economy. This effectively
created a new form of federalism over which the American
people can have no control.
Tom
Obama doesn't have to prove anything.
The burden of proof lies with the plaintiff, in this Berg. Berg must
prove Obama is not a citizen, not the other way around.
You should've paid more attention in 8th grade civics class.
Tom
RichA
was?
"Alric Knebel" <al...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:r7k1h4t5s3nf8d2cl...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:57:41 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Dano wrote:
>>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This case might also need to go through the UK and Kenyan Courts
>>>> and becomes a Matter of International Law and Controversy.
>>>
>>> Yeah. Right after Bush and Cheney are tried by the International Court
>>> of Justice for their war crimes...oh...wait...we don't accept their
>>> jurisdiction. Oh drat!
>>>
>>> I have a hunch that the rest of the world is a bit more concerned about
>>> the criminality of this outgoing administration than about any silly
>>> questions about Obama's citizenship.
>> >
>>
>>What would it mean to you if Obama is not an American citizen?
>
> What would it mean to you if John McCain wasn't?
>
> ______________________________________________
> Alric Knebel
> http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
> http://www.ironeyefortress.com
>
Tom
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:57:41 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>
> >>> This case might also need to go through the UK and Kenyan Courts
> >>> and becomes a Matter of International Law and Controversy.
>
> >> Yeah. Right after Bush and Cheney are tried by the International Court
> >> of Justice for their war crimes...oh...wait...we don't accept their
> >> jurisdiction. Oh drat!
>
> >> I have a hunch that the rest of the world is a bit more concerned about
> >> the criminality of this outgoing administration than about any silly
> >> questions about Obama's citizenship.
>
> >What would it mean to you if Obama is not an American citizen?
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Alric Knebelhttp://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.htmlhttp://www.ironeyefortress.com
OMG! Alric, McCain wasn't born in the States! Does that mean he's not
a citizen?
We must launch an investigation!
Tom
Tom
> VT VirtualTruth wrote:
> > If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
> > he will not be sworn in.
>
> > End of story.
>
> He shouldn't be sworn in on several counts but the
> powers which run both McCain and Obama also dictate the
> actions of others.
>
What are the several counts on which he shouldn't be sworn in?
Please enlighten us.
Tom
trotsky
> You know who I've never seen profiled? Obama's father. Does he know who it
> was?
Why don't you tell us about your father first?
William December Starr
David Johnston <da...@block.net> said:
> Also, if Obama turns out to be a legally dead vampire, he will not
> be sworn in.
Really?
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the
United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,
shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any
Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to
the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident
within the United States.
I don't see anything in there that bars the undead.
-- wds
strabo
> VT VirtualTruth wrote:
>> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
>> he will not be sworn in.
>
>
> <sigh> He has proven he is American born. D'uh.
>
> The Hawaiian state government has come out and made it clear. He was
> born in Hawaii.
>
> End of story.
>
No, just the beginning.
The Republican governor of Hawaii is obfuscating and
and obstructing like other officials who know the facts.
Even the courts refuse to do their job.
The governor said that Hawaii has a certificate of live birth
concerning a Barrack Obama.
Obama's sister also has an Hawaiian certificate of live birth.
However, she was born in Indonesia. As such, Obama's sister does
not have an Hawaiian birth certificate.
How is it possible to have one and not the other?
A certificate of live birth is very loose. Most anyone with an
infant could get one. It simply notes that an infant *was presented for
registration* within the jurisdiction of Hawaii. This document
accommodates the usual hospital birth as well as mid-wife deliveries and
free births.
But, this certificate of live birth is NOT a birth certificate. A birth
certificate gives details like the hospital's name and address, the
delivering doctor's name, state ID and affiliation, specifics about
the parents, notes about the birth and physical anomalies, foot prints,
unique identification number and it is signed by witnesses AND
notarized. The federal and state governments are very specific about
this. Note: Births are important because they represent future human
resources.
Apparently, Mr. Obama does not have an Hawaiian birth certificate.
To make matters worse, at least one certificate of live birth alleged to
be Obama's and presented on the Internet, has been altered: contains
false identifiers; the unique ID is blacked out; and is not properly
notarized.
No, I can't explain this. Given that someone in the family went
to the trouble of putting a notice of birth in an Hawaiian newspaper
that August of 1961, you'd think they would have also gotten a Live
Birth certificate.
Not having the real thing, one of his fevered supporters probably put
the phony one together and now they're afraid to admit it.
> ..
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:00:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
><gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:25 -0600, Alric Knebel <al...@cableone.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
>>>>everyones satisifaction?
>>>
>>>His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
>>>that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>>
>>
>>Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
>
>It's not a popular opinion, it's a fact. Period.
Opinion is not fact, no matter how hard you stamp your widdle feet
and hold your breath until you turn blue.
Why do you not want the issue resolved to everyones satifaction by
presenting all the facts and testimony?
Are you afraid of something?
Gunner
Gunner Asch
Actually..they didnt.
Dano
"VT VirtualTruth" <TheVirt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:51253993-936d-44a5...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
> he will not be sworn in.
>
> End of story.
>
that may be), there would be a real, shooting revolution. Our democracy as
we see it today would be changed (at the very least) forever. A majority of
Americans would no longer believe in this system of government.
Tom
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:21:20 -0600, GTL <g...@palinsbeaver.gov> wrote:
> >44a5-9b2f-f46172832...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
> >> he will not be sworn in.
>
> >> End of story.
>
> >Uh, I kinnda think the State of Hawaii settled that when they produced his
> >birth certificate.
>
> Actually..they didnt.
>
> Gunner
>
Cite?
Tom
strabo
No one cares. Go back to sleep.
VT VirtualTruth
comprehension,
I will say it slower, this is a non-issue.
It is being done to rile the base.
I love that term 'base', it reminds me of base instincts,
or low level mental activity.
VT VirtualTruth
> ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
History lesson, Obama is BLACK, the rules were different for black
children
back in the day.
VT VirtualTruth
> "VT VirtualTruth" <TheVirtualTr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Hello, we are already there!
strabo
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:00:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
> <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
>>>> everyones satisifaction?
>>> His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
>>> that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>>
>> Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
>
> are born elsewhere, and because their parents are natural citizens,
> they're automatically citizens.
>
Yes, Americans do have children in foreign countries. This does
not mean they are automatically US citizens. With the exception of
American diplomatic and military status, most countries register
births as native to that respective country and don't allow dual
citizenship. Becoming a US citizen is not automatic.
1. Each American is first and foremost a resident of a state
within the United States. They are then identified as a
resident of such-and-such a state and a United States
citizen.
2. No record is automatically created in the US when a US citizen
has a child abroad.
Application must be made for citizenship.
>
> But you keep trying. That silly misconception of yours simply reveals
> you as an uninformed nincompoop.
>
> And to continue to focus on this insignificant detail makes your side
> look desperate and foolish.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Alric Knebel
> http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
> http://www.ironeyefortress.com
>
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
Dano
=========================================
Not any more! That all just changed.
Hugh Gibbons
Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
> everyones satisifaction?
I has been settled to every reasonable person's satisfaction. The last
couple percent are the nutcases.
True to form, you're identifying with them.
You're really an embarrassment, Gunner.
Now go to your room and practice saying "President Obama."
strabo
> On Nov 4, 3:57 pm, VT VirtualTruth <TheVirtualTr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
>> he will not be sworn in.
>>
>> End of story.
>
>
> Obama doesn't have to prove anything.
>
Obama only has to provide distractions while Paulson's buddies
steal trillions of dollars.
>
> The burden of proof lies with the plaintiff, in this Berg. Berg must
> prove Obama is not a citizen, not the other way around.
>
Can't prove a negative.
Burden of proof constrains government in matters of criminal law.
>
> You should've paid more attention in 8th grade civics class.
>
If only you'd made it to the ninth grade.
>
> Tom
strabo
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:22:18 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Bob Brock wrote:
>>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:24:30 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:34:32 -0500, Dano wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>>>> So you really dont want to have Obamas citizenship verified, hence
>>>>>>> removing all doubts about his legal ability to be President?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there something you are worried about Tommy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you been frothing at the mouth in support ofr someone perhaps who
>>>>>>> has lied to you, and you have drunk his Kool-Aid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No you ignorant twit. The question has been asked and answered. Only a
>>>>>> handful of irrational right wing loons...like you...continue to question.
>>>>>> I'm convinced the stupidity of the right...in wasting time on foolish crap
>>>>>> like this...and Rev. Wright...and Bill Ayers is a large part of the reason
>>>>>> for the growing gap between the support for Obama versus McCain. All this
>>>>>> does is certify that your side is intellectually bankrupt and mired in
>>>>>> negativity and deceit. Thank you for your help. The Republican party
>>>>>> will actually be better off when you frauds are marginalized by your own
>>>>>> party and some true conservativism and moderation returns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
>>>>> Be glad the right wing wackos behave in such a juvenile, malicious,
>>>>> transparent, manner. The sheer meanness of the McCain campaign is why
>>>>> Obama is winning, not Barak's credentials.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I'm voting write-in for Ron Paul.
>>>>>
>>>> Are you a citizen of the U.S.?
>>> You are starting to sound like cheesy now.
>>>
>> That's a straight-up question. As I recall Curly says he moved
>> permanently to Argentina.
>
> I never had any thoughts that he had renounced his US citizenship. My
> wife has permanently moved to the United States and hasn't made any
> moves towards changing her citizenship. She would still have
> Colombian citizenship even if she did.
>
> When has he said anything to make you think that he has renounced his
> citizenship? In fact, his announcing who he is voting for would make
> me believe that the opposite is true.
>
My recollection...
He has been very anti-Bush and said a few years ago that actions by
the Bush administration persuaded him to forsake the US and move to
Argentina. He has even recommended others do the same. That makes
me think he may have dropped his citizenship but so far as I know he
has not mentioned his status so I thought to ask.
David Johnston
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>>>Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
>>
>>It's not a popular opinion, it's a fact. Period.
>
>
>Opinion is not fact, no matter how hard you stamp your widdle feet
>and hold your breath until you turn blue.
>
>Why do you not want the issue resolved to everyones satifaction by
>presenting all the facts and testimony?
>
Sheyeah. Like that's possible.
David Johnston
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:21:20 -0600, GTL <g...@palinsbeaver.gov> wrote:
>
>>VT VirtualTruth <TheVirt...@gmail.com> wrote in news:51253993-936d-
>>44a5-9b2f-f...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> If Obama can not prove he is an American born citizen,
>>> he will not be sworn in.
>>>
>>> End of story.
>>>
>>
>>Uh, I kinnda think the State of Hawaii settled that when they produced his
>>birth certificate.
>
>
>Actually..they didnt.
Honestly it's like trying to convince someone that the Earth is round.
torresD
Governor Swill
>You know who I've never seen profiled? Obama's father. Does he know who it
>was?
It's probably because you're blind. I've seen two on TV.
Swill
--
Liberal: I like the puppet on the left.
Conservative: I like the puppet on the right.
Independent: Hey! There's one guy holding both puppets!
Centrist: I hope he knows which puppet's on which hand.
Picture of the Day http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
Governor Swill
sgall...@rogers.com
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:00:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
>
> <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> >On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:25 -0600, Alric Knebel <al...@cableone.net>
>
> >>>So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
> >>>everyones satisifaction?
>
> >>that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>
>
> are born elsewhere, and because their parents are natural citizens,
> they're automatically citizens.
Not always. The parent must meet requirements of prior residency or
physical presence in the US. If the parent does not meet the
requirements, then the child is not automatically a US citizen,
despite the fact that the parent is. These requirements exist to
prevent an endless line of foreign born citizens.
In the case of Obama, if he had been born outside the US, he would not
have been a US citizen even though his mother was a US citizen. The
nationality laws in effect at that would have required that his mother
had ten years of previous physical presence in the US (which she had)
with five of those years being after age fourteen (which she didn't
have). She was only eighteen when Obama was born, so she didn't meet
the requirement of five years of physical presence being after age
fourteen.
That's why Obama would not have been a US citizen if he had been born
abroad.
sgall...@rogers.com
> Alric Knebel wrote:
> > On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:00:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
> > <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:39:25 -0600, Alric Knebel <al...@cableone.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>> So you dont want the question to be fully and truely settled to
> >>>> everyones satisifaction?
> >>> His mother was a natural-born citizen. According to the Constitution,
> >>> that makes Barrack Obama a citizen. Period.
>
> >> Ah...no..it doesnt, contrary to popular opinion.
>
> > It's not a popular opinion, it's a fact. Period. Lot's of Americans
> > are born elsewhere, and because their parents are natural citizens,
> > they're automatically citizens.
>
> Yes, Americans do have children in foreign countries. This does
> not mean they are automatically US citizens. With the exception of
> American diplomatic and military status, most countries register
> births as native to that respective country and don't allow dual
> citizenship.
Whether a child born abroad to an American will be a US citizen or
not, depends on whether or not the requirements to pass citizenship to
a child born abroad have been met. If they have, the child is a US
citizen, if not he isn't.
Lots of countries, including the US, allow dual citizenship.
>Becoming a US citizen is not automatic.
In some cases, a child born abroad is automatically a citizen, in
other cases the child is not automatically a citizen because the
parent does not meet the requirements to pass citizenship to the
child, but the child may be able to have citizenship conferred upon
him by applying for it - a process known as expeditious
naturalization. Still, there are other cases where the child has no
option for citizenship, other than the parent applying for a green
card for the child and then the child moving to the US and eventually
naturalizing there.
>
> 1. Each American is first and foremost a resident of a state
> within the United States. They are then identified as a
> resident of such-and-such a state and a United States
> citizen
>
> 2. No record is automatically created in the US when a US citizen
> has a child abroad.
True.
>
> Application must be made for citizenship.
False. If the requirements to grant citizenship through the parents
are met, then the child receives US citizenship at the moment of his
birth. What should be applied for is a Report of Birth Abroad of a US
Citizen. This is a document that can be use to prove that the child
is a US citizen. This document is not a conferral of citizenship,
it's documentary proof that the child born abroad is, and has been, a
citizen from the moment of his birth. Plus, it's not an absolute
requirement to apply for it. A person born abroad, to one or two US
citizen parents, who does not obtain a Certificate of Birth Abroad of
a US Citizen, but who met the requirements for citizenship by descent
can simply apply for his first US passport by presenting the proof
that the requirements to pass citizenship were met (ie. the parent's
proof of citizenship and physical presence or residency in the US,
parent's marital status, proof of the relationship of the child to the
parents, etc)
Bob Brock
wrote:
He has to be a citizen to vote, so your question was answered before
you asked it.
Governor Swill
Isn't it time for this argument to end?
The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
native named Barack Hussein Obama.
strabo
> "sgall...@rogers.com" <sgall...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>
Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
Linguistic perfidy.
>
> The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
> native named Barack Hussein Obama.
>
You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
But the birth issue is but one of many problems with BO.
>
> Swill
strabo
> Well, Barack Hussein Obama is now the President of the USA.
>
No. Obama is the candidate selected to be president by the
alleged popular vote. Fraud and rigged machines cast doubt
on the results not that this matters to most.
The Electoral College makes the decision.
strabo
Thank you for the detail.
The paperwork must be done. It may seem seamless in some cases
but the documentation and approval must occur. There is no automatic
presumption of citizenship.
<snipped>
Audie Murphy's Ghost
> Governor Swill wrote:
> > "sgall...@rogers.com" <sgall...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time for this argument to end?
> >
>
> Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>
> Linguistic perfidy.
>
> >
> > The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
> > native named Barack Hussein Obama.
> >
>
> You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
He doesn't have to prove anything. It's up to you to provide some
evidence that Obama wasn't born in the U.S. Any verifiable documentary
evidence that his mother was not in the U.S. at or around the time of
his birth will do. Otherwise, it's long past time for this "argument"
to end.
David Johnston
wrote:
>> The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
>> native named Barack Hussein Obama.
>>
>
>You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
No he couldn't. Nothing can prove it to the satisfaction of those
determined to find an excuse to bar the winner from office.
Georgiana Gates
> Governor Swill wrote:
>> "sgall...@rogers.com" <sgall...@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>>
>
> Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>
> Linguistic perfidy.
>
strabo
If he could prove it, though apparently no one can, it might end that
issue but as you suggest there are others.
sgall...@rogers.com
There's no automatic presumption of citizenship, but there is
automatic conferral of citizenship, assuming the requirements were
met. The approval is simply a confirmation that the requirements to
confer citizenship were met at the moment of the child's birth, and
that the child did receive citizenship through parent at that time.
sgall...@rogers.com
> Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>
> The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
> native named Barack Hussein Obama.
Yes, he is. He was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen.
strabo
Like a Timex watch.
I spent eight years uncovering the lies, sins and crimes
of Bill Clinton, then the past eight disclosing those of GW Bush.
And now I look forward to exposing yet another foil of the plutocracy.
This time however there is a new factor, the theft of trillions of
dollars which is bankrupting the planet and about to collapse the
System. This time politicians and other perps will not be able to
escape.
clouddreamer
> torresD wrote:
>> Well, Barack Hussein Obama is now the President of the USA.
>>
>
> No. Obama is the candidate selected to be president by the
> alleged popular vote. Fraud and rigged machines cast doubt
> on the results not that this matters to most.
Yeah. That's why the machines that didn't work always popped a vote for
Obama over to McCain.
Fraud is only good in small numbers. Obama won by 7% of the popular
vote. He won by fighting the fraud of the right. He won by ensuring
everyone that wanted to vote, did so.
And alas, more of them didn't want more of the incompetent, misguided,
divisive government that has destroyed the reputation and economy of the US.
You lost. Get over it.
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.
KalElFan
news:af957f0c-e0c0-445b...@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> He was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen.
You're one of the more reasoned posters and have made substantive
contributions to the discussion of the issue in several threads over the
last month or so. Your assertion above may well be true, but all it
is is an assertion. Others have pointed out it was up to Berg or
anyone bringing a suit to prove otherwise, but the standard is not
absolute proof or proof beyond a reasonable doubt by either side.
Strictly speaking absolute proof is impossible. What I think people
have a right to expect is transparency. Obama should have long
before now provided documents and answered questions and
been vetted on a whole host of issues not just this one. It's the
appearance of nothing to hide that's as or more important than
having nothing to hide.
Berg's case has two separate parts to it, either of which are
sufficient to challenge Obama's eligibility. Berg says Obama
was born in Kenya, and that the birth was registered a few
days later in Hawaii. In the absence of any further information
than what's in the last sentence, neither you nor anyone would
know the truth. Again, pretend you're reading the following
sentence for the first time, and had never even heard the words
Berg and Obama in a context where the sentence means anything
to you.
"Berg says Obama was born in Kenya, and that the birth
was registered a few days later in Hawaii."
Who's Berg? Who's Obama? Why should I care? We look
at the sentence and it's meaningless if we didn't have the
context of the last year or perhaps four years ago when we
first may have heard the name Obama around the time he
became a Senator and spoke at the 2004 convention. Since
then, almost all of us were told the story that Obama was
born in Hawaii. So when any of us read the above for the
very first time, we know immediately that it challenges the
story. We dismiss it in a way, for Obama partisans perhaps
as a loony conspiracy theory. But even a Republican and
McCain supporter sees it and is skeptical, to understate it.
Surely, we think, someone must have checked and made
sure long before now. How can anyone believe this? It
can't have anything to it. There's a very heavy bias in favor
of NOT admitting the information to the realm of "possible".
This is entirely understandable. I had the same reaction of
skepticism a little over a month ago at the beginning of
October when I learned of it for the first time. Since I
follow all this political stuff very closely I'm pretty sure
90%-95% of the electorate were also in the dark about
this then. Most still are because it's never been covered
in the mainstream media.
The subject line that caught my eye claimed a judge had
ordered Obama to produce his birth certificate. I learned
later it was a false subject line. What happens is that when
a plaintiff files a suit as Berg did here, included is a draft of
the order that the plaintiff REQUESTS the judge sign IF
the judge decides to grant what they're asking. It's just
the proposed order. It isn't actually an order unless and
until the judge signs it. This mistake was made by many
people who looked up the documents online at justia or
other places. They assumed the order had been signed.
It hadn't.
Nevertheless it had attracted my attention and I ended
up looking into the case and Berg's allegations. I've
learned a lot and written a lot. Here's 287 lines that at
the time a few weeks ago described most of this first
issue surrounding the Hawaii birth certificate:
http://google.com/group/alt.politics.elections/msg/4bb4af26cbc5fed7
It sets out a very plausible case. As I said elsewhere and
it may serve as a briefer summary and update to the above
link:
"Berg`s timeline of events
fit perfectly with various unchallenged dates and facts from 1961.
It makes sense that Barack Obama Sr. and his wife would have
been in Kenya that summer when Barack was born. As part of
Berg`s allegation he also seeks to challenge other smoke and
mirror type "evidence" or "debunking" that the Obama side or
its proxies have put out.
It's a fact that no original birth record has been produced by the
Obama side. A scan of a 2007 document called a "Certification"
was put up on a web site. Hawaii's own official web site, in its
only reference to such documents, uses the words "REQUIRES
ADDITIONAL VERIFICATION". Alleged comments cited
in certain articles, from State of Hawaii employees, have on a
few occasions now called into question not just whether they
violated the state's own policies or lied about those, but that they
broke state law. Obama could have months ago avoided all
this by simply authorizing release of the original birth record.
He hasn't. Some speculated it was because the original record
had been destroyed. We learned within the last week from two
sources that it exists. Skeptics cite the sudden appearance of
this information that it exists as itself suspect, but in any case
it is supposed to exist yet it has not been produced.
Now here's the key, as we get back to the issue of standing
versus substance. Berg's case on this first point is plausible
on the face of it and Obama has failed to provide documents
he easily could have to at least begin the process of proving
otherwise, while striving for transparency. But ultimately it's
a question of fact whether Berg is right or not. That's the
core, substantive issue on this first point. What the court has
ruled does not address that issue. It says it doesn't matter
because Berg has no legal right to question it, i.e. he has no
standing to sue."
Berg's Supreme Court appeal remains pending, with Obama
and the DNC supposed to respond by December 1.
Your main contribution on this one has been to arrive at the
same conclusion I and others did, which is that IF Obama
was born in Kenya he would not be eligible. The law as
it stands TODAY would make Obama a US Citizen from
birth. I don't believe the "natural born" definition has ever
been sufficiently litigated in such a case that we would know
for 100% certain Obama would qualify even under today's
rules. McCain's situation was different and there was a
relevant case, as well as a Congressional motion specifically
reaffirming that he qualified. But the point is moot because
Obama was NOT a US citizen at birth if he was born in
Kenya, under the rules in effect at the time as they applied
to the accepted facts of this case. Many Obama supporters
looking for any way to dismiss it tried to do it based on the
law today, but that's not the issue.
Obama should provide the original birth record, for starters.
Berg has provided not just a plausible but a very strong case
circumstantially that Obama's parents would have been in
Kenya that summer, and there are two separate sets of
evidence now including a YouTube video that support his
claim that the Kenyan grandmother says he was born there
and that she witnessed it. Against that, we have literally
nothing except a scanned document that proves nothing
and the collective assurances given via Friends of Obama
that raise more questions than they answer. For there to
be transparency more must be produced and addressed.
Then there is the issue of his Indonesian citizenship. You
made a claim that there was no way for Obama to have
lost his US citizenship as a minor. This was in another
post a while back. Your claim was false. Even one of the
false debunking sites posted the wording from the relevant
sections of the 1940 Nationality Act as amended in 1952,
which was applicable at the time. It proved that a minor
can and did lose citizenship when he/she followed the new
nationality of a parent, in this case Obama's Indonesian
stepfather. I'd earlier found other case cites that collectively
also demonstrate it can and did happen. The law was then
changed in 1986 to make it as you say, virtually impossible
for it to happen now. But the 1986 law was not retroactive.
So as I said elsewhere:
"On the second point, which is arguably even more of a
problem for Obama. Berg argues that EVEN IF he was born
in Hawaii he later lost his citizenship status when he was
adopted by his Indonesian stepfather and became an
Indonesian citizen. Berg gives specific statute and treaty
citations in effect at the time, and cites unchallenged facts
that make this argument again plausible on the face of it,
and NO ONE has pointed to any refutation of his argument.
The lower court judge did not provide a refutation. The
ruling was again on standing, not substance."
Which is again why Obama should produce all documents
requested that may have a bearing on his possibly having
acquired Indonesian citizenship as a child, or evidence of
his Indonesian citizenship (e.g., passport) later on.
To again highlight the disinformation engaged in by some
of the Obama supporters, one of them concocted a very
elaborate story about a Virginia lower court ruling where
the judge had allegedly addressed this second part of
Berg's case. The judge supposedly cited age 18 (rather
than the correct age 25) as the time Obama had before he
needed to take up US residency in order to re-acquire his
US citizenship. It made the judge look like an idiot, but
it's because it wasn't a real judge or real wording it was
just an Obama supporter trying to stop all this Internet
talk a day before the election. There was still a Supreme
Court appeal pending and they hadn't said "Mr. Berg,
you're loony conspiracy theorist and your case is complete
nonsense please go away." Those following it were more
and more wondering why no one was refuting Berg's case
it was just lower courts saying no one had the right to bring
the case. So this guy made it up.
The other part of his made up story was wishful. Berg cites
US law, in the form of international treaty to which the US
was part and perhaps a related statute. Since Indonesia
did not recognize dual citizenship, neither did the US with
respect to Indonesia. The mole made up that his fake
judge ruled this didn't matter, because US law governs.
Except that's nonsense, because it was US law that
says they don't recognize dual citizenship in such cases.
The only question is whether or not Obama the minor
became an Indonesian citizen or not. If he did, then even
if he was born in Hawaii he was no longer a citizen from
that point onward. He could only have reacquired his
citizenship by his mother taking certain steps, or he
taking certain steps later and Berg argues that (i) it's other
sections that would apply not the one involving taking up
residency; instead he had to get a certificate of citizenship
and swear an oath I believe it was and (ii) even then he
would have been naturalized and not natural born. So
he could hold his Senate seat but not hold the office of
President or Vice-President.
Again, Berg's legal reasoning has not been refuted. I'm
prepared for a judge or anyone who thinks they have the
legal knowledge to do so and I'd look at it with an open
mind. But I've been involved in these discussions now
fairly intensively for a month and I haven't run across any
reference to the existence of such an argument. That so
frustrated one Obama supporter that they outright made
one up, phony unnamed judge and phony Virginia ruling
out of whole cloth. It's typical of the quick counterclaim
on anything and everything that just doesn't hold up on
closer inspection. It's a hallmark of this issue.
There IS a widely known school document that indicates
Obama's Indonesian citizenship. One of the theories on
the reason for Obama not releasing the original birth
certificate information is that there may have been a later
change and then change back again on his Indonesian
stepfather adoption. The Hawaii site indicates that alters
records. Having been changed back, we would now see
the "Certification" from 2007 with no reference to it. But
perhaps the original record, if released, would as part
of Hawaii state law be accompanied by a "Later Amended"
notation for example, which would lead to questions and
perhaps the adoption being registered along with a name
change to Barry Soetoro as he was for several years in
Indonesia after his mother married Mr. Soetoro.
The latest tactic seems to be Obama supporters pleading
that this issue should go away since the election is over.
For 75 days he's just President Elect. Berg has already
said this is an Electoral College fight now. I haven't
checked but someone said one US Senator and one
member of the House could also trigger a challenge of
Obama's qualifications just by asking. The Democrats
might try to pound a gavel and say case dismissed but
one presumes FOX News and a few others would cover
it and put some pressure on for the transparency at least
that Obama has refused to provide.
Tom
wrote:
>
> > > Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>
> > Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>
> > Linguistic perfidy.
>
> > > The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
> > > native named Barack Hussein Obama.
>
> > You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
>
> He doesn't have to prove anything. It's up to you to provide some
> evidence that Obama wasn't born in the U.S. Any verifiable documentary
> evidence that his mother was not in the U.S. at or around the time of
> his birth will do. Otherwise, it's long past time for this "argument"
>
> - Show quoted text -
I already tried that argument, Audie.
The response was "You can't prove a negative." which to me would
indicate the end of the argument.
<sigh>
Tom
Tom
<looney crap snipped>
You need a hobby and I don't mean purporting looney conspiracy
theories. Perhaps basket weaving or wood working would soothe your
mind.
We have a new President-elect and that is not going to change, Berg or
no Berg.
I liked you better in the DC Comics NG.
Tom
Tom
> Georgiana Gates wrote:
> > strabo wrote:
> >> Governor Swill wrote:
>
> >>> Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>
> >> Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>
> >> Linguistic perfidy.
>
> > You mean, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.
>
> >
>
> Like a Timex watch.
>
> I spent eight years uncovering the lies, sins and crimes
> of Bill Clinton, then the past eight disclosing those of GW Bush.
> And now I look forward to exposing yet another foil of the plutocracy.
>
> This time however there is a new factor, the theft of trillions of
> dollars which is bankrupting the planet and about to collapse the
> System. This time politicians and other perps will not be able to
> escape.
>
Hmmmm... sounds like a threat to me. Perhaps the Secret Service should
be notified.
BTW, who stole the trillions of dollars and where are they hiding it.
If it is indeed stolen, wouldn't it be hard to spend all that money
without raising suspicion?
Just wondering,
Tom
David Johnston
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:22:24 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
>>>> native named Barack Hussein Obama.
>>>>
>>> You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
>>
>> No he couldn't. Nothing can prove it to the satisfaction of those
>> determined to find an excuse to bar the winner from office.
> >
>
>If he could prove it, though apparently no one can, it might end that
>issue but as you suggest there are others.
That is not what I suggest. What I suggest is that ordinarily
producing a state's birth certificate for you and having the state
announce it is real would be sufficient evidence to establish
citizenship. Since it isn't, nothing would be.
CharlesTheCurmudgeon
He was not qualified to be President of the Weimar Republic, he was born in
Austria and did not hold German citizenship. He had a Nazi party official
in Brunswick (one of the 'states' of the Weimar republic) appoint him to a
minor administrative post in 1932, thus making him a citizen, since the
indivdual state confered citizenship, there was no 'national' German
citizenship yet in those years.
Now that Obamamaumau's grandmother is dead, she can't testify where he was
born. Convenient, that. Are we going to start having another round of
Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Jim McDougall mysterious deaths?
Charles the Curmudgeon
Tom
I'm not familiar with Jim McDougall's death, but Foster's suicide and
Brown's death in a plane crash are not mysterious.
I wonder, was it/will it be convenient when your grandmother died/
dies?
Just curious,
Tom
Jonah Goldberg
only the American right, but the British and European Conservatives as well.
Fascism, Nazism and Conservatism
European fascism drew on existing anti-modernist conservatism, and on
the conservative reaction to communism and 19th-century socialism.
Conservative thinkers such as historian Oswald Spengler provided much
of the world view (Weltanschauung) of the Nazi movement.
In Britain, the conservative Daily Mail enthusiastically backed Sir
Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists, and part of the Conservative
Party supported closer ties with Nazi Germany.
When defeat in World War II ideologically and historically
discredited fascism, almost all Western conservatives tried to distance
themselves from it. Nevertheless, many post-war Western conservatives
continued to admire the Franco regime in Spain, clearly conservative
but also fascist in origin. With the end of the Franco regime and
Portugal's Estado Novo in the 1970s, the relationship between
conservatism and classical European fascism was further weakened.
Militarism is perhaps the most striking similarity between Fascism and
contemporary American conservatism. Of course, there are many liberals
in America who support the military and even call for increased
military spending.
Even so, American liberals are traditionally more skeptical of the
military than American conservatives. It is often said that
Neoconservatives, like Hitler, see the military as a paradigm for
problem solving (even in situations that may render militarism
impractical or unethical).
The relationship of fascism to right-wing ideologies (including some
that are described as neo-fascist) is still an issue for conservatives
and their opponents. Especially in Germany, there is a constant
exchange of ideology and persons, between the influential national-
conservative movement, and self-identified national-socialist groups.
In Italy too, there is no clear line between conservatives, and
movements inspired by the Italian Fascism of the 1920s to 1940s,
including the Alleanza Nazionale which is member of the governing
coalition under premier Silvio Berlusconi. Conservative attitudes to
the 20th-century fascist regimes are still an issue.
strabo
Your tract took some work. I hope others will appreciate it.
About four months ago I began a bio on Obama. My research uncovered
several different versions concerning the relationships and
loci of the early family. Obama's books offered some information
as did interviews, speeches and papers. I arrived at logic points
similar to those you've outlined.
To date, Congress, a federal court and the SCOTUS have declined the
opportunity to clarify or resolve these issues. I think the fix
is in. I believe the problems that would result from determining
Obama's constitutional qualification have frightened politicians.
In their minds the issue is settled no matter the grievous
nature of the fraud and the damage to our Constitution.
strabo
And I was having so much fun looking for WMDs and reading the infamous
Patriot Act. Now we have a new set of insurmountable problems.
Ann Dunham and her mother went to so much trouble to effect the world.
The least we can do is show up and play the game.
> Charles the Curmudgeon
strabo
You probably don't mean confer. To confer means to bestow as a gift,
a favor, an honor.
Approval is the opposite of disapproval. Confirmation is the
opposite of denial. Ergo, documentation must be submitted for
confirmation and approval.
There, we have it! Everyone is in agreement.
strabo
> strabo wrote:
>> torresD wrote:
>>> Well, Barack Hussein Obama is now the President of the USA.
>>>
>>
>> No. Obama is the candidate selected to be president by the
>> alleged popular vote. Fraud and rigged machines cast doubt
>> on the results not that this matters to most.
>
>
> Yeah. That's why the machines that didn't work always popped a vote for
> Obama over to McCain.
>
> Fraud is only good in small numbers. Obama won by 7% of the popular
> vote. He won by fighting the fraud of the right. He won by ensuring
> everyone that wanted to vote, did so.
>
Don't kid yourself. One reason for using computers is the ease of
sorting and tabulating data.
> And alas, more of them didn't want more of the incompetent, misguided,
> divisive government that has destroyed the reputation and economy of the
> US.
>
> You lost. Get over it.
>
You're partly right. We lost.
> ..
strabo
Birth notices were not generated by government. Someone
submitted that info. Anyone could have done that.
In an earlier post I distinguished between a *certificate of
live birth* and a *birth certificate*. They differ due to
intent and circumstances. One gets a *birth certificate* from the
hospital at which the birth took place. The *birth certificate* is
the delivery facility's details concerning the infant, the parents,
delivery physician, physical characteristics and notes of
the delivery. This info went to the state health department and
the federal commerce department. The original is kept at the
hospital in a secure vault.
This is the one which we want to see per Barrack Hussein Obama.
This is the one which probably doesn't exist.
The *Certificate of Live Birth* on the other hand was at the time
easily had. This is simply the declaration of a birth within the
registrar's jurisdiction to accommodate mid-wife and free births.
There was no attending physician, no hospital and no physical
identification or examination required. That is why this is not
bona fide for our purposes.
In this case it was probably the grandmother who filled out a form
at the county registrar's office and attested to its veracity
in front of a notary. Then she called or wrote the newspaper with
an announcement. Presto, a faux birth certificate.
David Johnston
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:49:12 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:22:24 -0500, strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
>>>>>> native named Barack Hussein Obama.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
>>>> No he couldn't. Nothing can prove it to the satisfaction of those
>>>> determined to find an excuse to bar the winner from office.
>>>>
>>> If he could prove it, though apparently no one can, it might end that
>>> issue but as you suggest there are others.
>>
>> That is not what I suggest. What I suggest is that ordinarily
>> producing a state's birth certificate for you and having the state
>> announce it is real would be sufficient evidence to establish
>> citizenship. Since it isn't, nothing would be.
>>
>
>Birth notices were not generated by government. Someone
>submitted that info. Anyone could have done that.
>
>In an earlier post I distinguished between a *certificate of
>live birth* and a *birth certificate*. They differ due to
>intent and circumstances. One gets a *birth certificate* from the
>hospital at which the birth took place.
I have no such thing. That must mean I was never born.
strabo
> On Nov 6, 7:01 am, strabo <str...@flashlight.net> wrote:
>> Georgiana Gates wrote:
>>> strabo wrote:
>>>> Governor Swill wrote:
>>>>> "sgallag...@rogers.com" <sgallag...@rogers.com> wrote:
>>>>> Isn't it time for this argument to end?
>>>> Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>>>> Linguistic perfidy.
>>> You mean, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.
>> >
>>
>> Like a Timex watch.
>>
>> I spent eight years uncovering the lies, sins and crimes
>> of Bill Clinton, then the past eight disclosing those of GW Bush.
>> And now I look forward to exposing yet another foil of the plutocracy.
>>
>> This time however there is a new factor, the theft of trillions of
>> dollars which is bankrupting the planet and about to collapse the
>> System. This time politicians and other perps will not be able to
>> escape.
>>
>
>
> Hmmmm... sounds like a threat to me. Perhaps the Secret Service should
> be notified.
>
Oh, there's a threat alright but it's not coming from me.
>
> BTW, who stole the trillions of dollars and where are they hiding it.
> If it is indeed stolen, wouldn't it be hard to spend all that money
> without raising suspicion?
>
> Just wondering,
> Tom
>
What do you think all the talk about the stock market and the
failing economy is about?
You are not aware of the contract between Congress, the president and
the Treasury which gives former Goldman Sachs CEO and Secretary of the
Treasury Henry Paulson, personal control of the printing and disposal of
to date, hundreds of billions of dollars? You are not aware that over 30
trillion dollars in derivatives (phony contracts) is due on demand?
Damn! Don't you have newspapers on your planet?
Tom, I think you need to do some serious research.
Hugh Gibbons
wrote:
> Governor Swill wrote:
> > "sgall...@rogers.com" <sgall...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time for this argument to end?
> >
>
> Right. Just "move on", "get over it" and "get a life".
>
> Linguistic perfidy.
>
> >
> > The President Elect of the United States of America is a Hawaiian
> > native named Barack Hussein Obama.
> >
>
> You could prove it and put the matter to rest.
>
> But the birth issue is but one of many problems with BO.
State of Hawaii says he was born there. Good enough.