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OT: Shelly Winters kicks the bucket :(

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BertSch...@aol.com

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Jan 15, 2006, 3:05:50 AM1/15/06
to

She was in a lotta films over the years but she will always be Mrs
Rosen from Poesidon Adventure and Ma Barker to me. :(

RIP

Bill " this candy I bought from the condom machine tastes like
rubber" Brennan

Randy Brown

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Jan 15, 2006, 12:43:28 PM1/15/06
to

BertSch...@aol.com wrote:
> She was in a lotta films over the years but she will always be Mrs
> Rosen from Poesidon Adventure and Ma Barker to me. :(
>
> RIP

Not to mention the devious title character in "Who(ever) Slew Auntie
Roo?".

--RB

Arthur Levesque

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Jan 15, 2006, 2:43:14 PM1/15/06
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You want to take this and your extra chromosome somewhere where it matters?

--
/\ Arthur Levesque <fnord?> http://boog.org & http://DammitJa.net __
\B\ack King of the Potato People & shanana-Cobain <*> Urban Spaceman (oO)
\S\lash Screw the cheese-eating surrender monkeys! Sweet Transvestite /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable! My work here is done...

James

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Jan 16, 2006, 12:15:44 AM1/16/06
to
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the newsgroup....


Just stop. Really. Pretty please.

BertSch...@aol.com

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Jan 17, 2006, 3:46:52 AM1/17/06
to
<You want to take this and your extra chromosome somewhere where it
matters?>

I dunno, I kinda like my chromosomes where they are...and why NOT
post it here? Its not like Lily's crazy posts or " buy dvds for $2.50"
or "Play time, check it out now FREE!" are any better..well, maybe
Lily's posts are more entertaining, now that I think of it. :)

Besides, Shelly Winters seemed like a cool broad...I betcha if she
was in a Rocky Horror cast she would have made a kick-ass Magenta!

Bill " sold his extra chromosome for drug money years ago " Brennan

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 5:46:25 AM1/17/06
to
Bill>...and why NOT post it here?

Because it doesn't belong here, and many of us are getting sick and
tired of the smarming obituary BULLSHIT. Take it somewhere else.

Bill>Its not like Lily's crazy posts

Which are (1) actually on-topic, in an insane way, or (2) can be
easily killfiled since it's not likely that she'll have anything else to
contribute. I don't want to killfile all of the BRAINLESS ASSHOLES who
keep INFLICTING their BULLSHIT "look, someone else who's more famous than
I'll ever be is dead, but I'm still alive! Nyah myah!" on the rest of us,
but pretty soon, I will. I don't want to do it, since the VULTURES like
you are actually regulars who do (once in a blue moon) post something that
is on-topic, but I will.

Bill>or " buy dvds for $2.50" or "Play time, check it out now FREE!" are
Bill>any better..

So you're justifying your actions by saying you're better than
spammers? Dude, ADOLF HITLER was better than spammers. That doesn't make
him any less and ASSHOLE, and it doesn't make YOU any less an ASSHOLE just
because you can point at someone else and say "at least I'm not as bad as
them!"
Which isn't true anyway - most spam on this NG gets trapped by my
filters and I never see it (unless some bonehead replies to it). Cascades
of "look at how sensitive I am!" BULLSHIT, on the other hand, from IDIOTS
like you and Randy, DESPITE the number of times everyone else has BEGGED
you to stop, still come through.

Seriously. It's not RELEVANT here, it's not WANTED here, it doesn't
BELONG here. For the LOVE OF GOD, stop it or take it SOMEWHERE ELSE. The
internet is FULL of newsgroups and mailing lists for people who get off on
dead celebrity obits (especially because of the people who play dead
pools). Last time this bullshit came up, I did a quick google and found
all sorts of places you could go.

Bill>well, maybe Lily's posts are more entertaining, now that I think of
Bill>it. :)

Which the constant obits ARE NOT.

Bill>Besides, Shelly Winters seemed like a cool broad...

I don't give a fuck if she was Mother Theresa. She had nothing to do
with Rocky Horror.

Bill>I betcha if she was in a Rocky Horror cast she would have made a
Bill>kick-ass Magenta!

And then she would have been on-topic. But she wasn't, so she isn't.
PERIOD.


MIBecky: "Why can't people get the hint?"
http://tinyurl.com/dj4dq

Ruth FW: "My only use for dead C-list celebrities is to use as the next
week's callback line when Riff opens the coffin. I have a non-Rocky life
too, and like Arthur, I live it in non-Rocky places."
http://tinyurl.com/8ae92

jefF: "Apply everything else Arthur said as if I did as well. Give it up
already people. The only joke here anymore on this subject is how long
it'll take for some jamoke here to mention some random dead celebrity that
wouldn't know Rocky Horror from a hole in the wall. I don't even want MY
OWN death mentioned here"
http://tinyurl.com/8ug8d

BertSch...@aol.com

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Jan 17, 2006, 7:29:00 AM1/17/06
to

Wow, Arthur, Im suprised at the names you called me. Asshole? Idiot?
Just because I made a post you didnt like? Wtf?

I have to admit, Im suprised at the reaction you gave. I did'nt say
anything to deserve such a rude response. (This is your problem, not
mine). I did expect better of a man of your age and intelligence,
however.
I don't do the " fighting back and forth on the newsgroup" thing
anymore , so I don't care to respond to your post except to say the
follwing:

Im going to post whatever I want to post, and I will not edit or
censor myself simply because you , or anyone, does not like what I have
to say ( especially when the post in question is not an attack or flame
on anyone, but rather just a simple off topic post ).

Likewise, you and anyone else are always free to respond and call me
and idiot or an asshole or anything you like all you wish. Thats fair
enough, no?

But like it or not, I WILL say whatever I wish to say.

I won't be responding to any further name-calling or rude responses
here on the newsgroup. I dont like the kiddie-bullshit aspect of that
sort of thing. However, if you care to send me an e mail or IM, I will
respond, and no doubt in a more polite and respectful way.

And I guess that's it.

Have a good day everyone! :)

Bill " Meatwad for President " Brennan

Larry Viezel

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 10:16:04 AM1/17/06
to
I am never one to censor anyone on the newsgroup and I am always up for
discussions, even flame wars that generate interesting banter. Under
normal circumstances putting an OT before the topic would suffice to
not piss off too many members of the community. But the
inappropriateness of the dead celebrity topic is something people have
posted about repeatedly. It does not belong on the newsgroup. It is
completely off topic. Most regulars on the newsgroup have asked that it
not be posted. Why do it?

It would be one thing if someone posted something in regards to the
celebrity's death that was Rocky Horror related. Like perhaps an
appropriate AP line specificly relating to their career or their death
that could be used that week at the show. Then it would be clever. But
the closest you came to relating Shelly Winters to RHPS is "She'd make
a kick ass magenta".

More to the point, heres what you wrote that sums it all up:

BertSch...@aol.com wrote:
> Im going to post whatever I want to post, and I will not edit or
> censor myself simply because you , or anyone, does not like what I have
> to say ( especially when the post in question is not an attack or flame
> on anyone, but rather just a simple off topic post ).

Its not that we don't like what you have to say. Arthur is not flaming
you for the content of your post but for its topic. It is completely
unrelated to this group and it's readers. Many people have come out
saying so in the past. "Dead celebrity" posts have been repeatedly
denounced as not belonging here. To post whatever you wants regardless
of its relevance is basicly giving a big "fuck you" to this group and
its readers, the very people you call your friends.

There are appropriate places to "post whatever you want to post". Get a
livejournal. Make a blog. But don't clutter up the newsgroup with off
topic posts, specifically ones that fall into a category people have
asked not be posted about. Its just plain rude and quite frankly more
disrespectful than an attack or a flame on someone.

I think its just expected that you are regarded as a respected member
of the community and should know better than to disrespect the rest of
it. But you keep everyone wrong.

Larry.

Randy Brown

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Jan 17, 2006, 2:06:13 PM1/17/06
to
Larry, that was the proper way to respond to this situation, NOT
Artie's childish little rant. Sometimes I think Hermoine Granger hit
him with an infantilism spell. (Of course, I'm not entirely innocent,
but I had to learn the group's ways.)

I can understand that some don't like OT posts here. But "cluttering"?
Have you noticed that the traffic here has been extremely slow?
Sometimes four or five days go by without any new subjects. The rare,
non-spam OT posts don't exactly "clutter" this group. Sometimes I'd
rather see nonsense than nothing (Lilysincere's BS notwithstanding),
just to know we're still alive.

--RB

Larry Viezel wrote:

<snip>

BertSch...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 4:13:27 PM1/17/06
to


I can agree and disagree to a few things ya said Lar, and I see
the point you want to make. I said anything that I needed to say when I
responded to Arthurs post, so the only part I want to respond to what
you said is:

< Its just plain rude and quite frankly more disrespectful than an

attack or flame on someone>

So a post I make about Shelly Winters dying was more rude and
disrespectful than Arthur calling me an asshole and an idiot and other
names for making that post in the first place?

I disagree.

Bill " I don't care if its old, cold, or covered in mold, its for
the Shorties" Brennan

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 7:10:02 PM1/17/06
to
Bill>Wow, Arthur, Im suprised at the names you called me. Asshole? Idiot?
Bill>Just because I made a post you didnt like? Wtf?

Don't play the injured innocent, Bill. You're in the wrong here.
You've been making posts THAT DON'T BELONG HERE, and that have been PISSING
PEOPLE OFF, for SEVERAL MONTHS now. People have tried to explain, over and
over, why those posts don't belong here - YOU REFUSED TO LISTEN. People
have let you know that you were being obnoxious and annoying - YOU DIDN'T
CARE. People have asked you to stop - YOU REFUSED.
You want to know why I'm being so fucking rude to you? Because hints
didn't work. Because asking politely didn't work. Because explanations
didn't work. We've tried everything else and it didn't work. That's why
we're so pissed off. That's why I'm yelling at you - on the off chance
that maybe, just maybe, you'll finally SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN.

Bill>I have to admit, Im suprised at the reaction you gave.

Have you not been paying attention to the steady escalation of
hostilities? Is your head that far up your "This is MY newsgroup, I'll do
what I want, and fuck the rest of you" ass?

Bill>I did'nt say anything to deserve such a rude response.

Bullshit. You're being an obnoxious ass. This is not, as has already
been pointed out several times, your personal livejournal. THIS IS A ROCKY
HORROR NEWSGROUP. IT IS FOR ROCKY HORROR.
Other subjects belong in other newsgroups. That's why all of those
other newsgroups are there. Otherwise we'd just have one big newsgroup
where everyone blathered on about whatever bullshit they wanted.

Bill>(This is your problem, not mine).

It's the problem of the entire newsgroup, or have you failed to notice
how many prominent people have leapt to support my every rant?

Bill>I did expect better of a man of your age and intelligence, however.

Oddly enough, I don't expect any better of you.

Bill>I don't do the " fighting back and forth on the newsgroup" thing
Bill>anymore

That's a weak and cowardly reply from an asshole who has precipitated
this flamewar. YOU are the one causing all this trouble. Again, any of
your claims of being the innocent, injured party won't wash. YOU ARE THE
ONE AT FAULT. YOU ARE WRONG.
And as long as you continue to be an obnoxious ass, then YOU are
CAUSING the "fighting back and forth on the newsgroup" thing.

Bill>so I don't care to respond to your post except to say the
Bill>follwing:

I don't give a fuck what you care about.

Bill>Im going to post whatever I want to post, and I will not edit or
Bill>censor myself simply because you , or anyone, does not like what I
Bill>have to say

THIS IS NOT YOUR FUCKING PERSONAL NEWSGROUP, BILL. YOU DO NOT HAVE
THE RIGHT TO POST ANYTHING YOU FUCKING WANT AND TO IGNORE EVERYONE ELSE IN
THE COMMUNITY. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU WANT, IT HAS EVERYTHING
TO DO WITH WHO IS ON-TOPIC, AND WHO IS BEING AN OBNOXIOUS SELF-RIGHTEOUS
ASS.

Bill>( especially when the post in question is not an attack or flame
Bill>on anyone, but rather just a simple off topic post ).

IT'S NOT A SIMPLE POST WHEN IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME SOME TWO-BIT
HACK OF A CELEBRITY DIES!

Bill>Likewise, you and anyone else are always free to respond and call me
Bill>and idiot or an asshole or anything you like all you wish. Thats
Bill>fair enough, no? But like it or not, I WILL say whatever I wish to
Bill>say.

Then you are a fucking asshole who either doesn't know or doesn't care
SHIT about how Usenet works.

Bill>I won't be responding to any further name-calling or rude responses
Bill>here on the newsgroup.

Just stop posting off-topic bullshit. You will make a LOT of people
happy, not just me.

Bill>I dont like the kiddie-bullshit aspect of that sort of thing.

Your whole whiny reply REEKS of kiddie-bullshit. "I'll do whatever I
want and you can't stop me" sounds like something a two-year-old would say.

Bill>However, if you care to send me an e mail or IM, I will respond, and
Bill>no doubt in a more polite and respectful way.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO'S WRONG. YOU ARE THE ASSHOLE. YOU ARE NOT BEHAVING
IN ANY MANNER EVEN REMOTELY POLITE OR RESPECTFUL. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS
MADE THE TONE OF THIS DISCUSSION NECESSARY.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 7:11:35 PM1/17/06
to
Randy Brown (ente...@hotmail.com) wrote:
RB>Larry, that was the proper way to respond to this situation, NOT
RB>Artie's childish little rant.

I, and others, have tried for months to be reasonable, AND IT HAS NOT
WORKED.

*plonk*

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 7:15:25 PM1/17/06
to
Bill>So a post I make about Shelly Winters dying was more rude and
Bill>disrespectful than Arthur calling me an asshole and an idiot and
Bill>other names for making that post in the first place?

TRY SEVERAL MONTHS OF OFF-TOPIC BS FOR EVERY MORON THAT DIED.

TRY SEVERAL MONTHS OF THE REST OF US TRYING TO STOP YOU WITH NO LUCK.

TRY YOUR TWO-YEAR-OLD "I'LL DO WHATEVER I WANT" WHINE.

It was not a single post, and you damned well know it. You are
deliberately lying out of your ass and misrepresenting what you've done,
what I've done, and what everyone else has said and done for the last
year. Maybe you're right in that little fantasy world in your head, but in
the real world, you're an obnoxious asshole who knows damned well that he's
an obnoxious asshole and you have every intention of continuing to be an
obnoxious asshole.

There's absolutely nothing else you can post that's worth it.

*plonk*

BertSch...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 9:52:10 PM1/17/06
to


Hmmmm, please re-read our exchange and then tell me which of us is
acting like a child.

Go drink some of your punch, Arthur, you need it.

Bill " off topic" Brennan

BertSch...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 17, 2006, 10:03:18 PM1/17/06
to
Ya know, I shouldnt even have responded just now.

I think this thread has run its course as far as anything meaningful
being communicated or accomplished, and I get the feeling that no
matter what I say Arthur will just respond with more and more crap. The
reaction he gives is obviously a lot more emotional than is warrented.
So, I will let Arthur take the parting shot, call me whatever he wants
to, and leave it be.

*SIGH* Bye Arthur. Good luck with whatever the real problem is in
your life that causes you all this anger.

Bill " trying hard not to feed the troll " Brennan

jan...@rocketmail.com

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Jan 18, 2006, 11:42:34 PM1/18/06
to
Man, I've been off this newsgroup because the discussions were getting
moldy, and what happens when I decide to check it again? Same old petty
bullshit. Damn can't we just all get along? I guess not ...so I'm out.

The Usually Silent Tim

jefF - Midnight Madness

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Jan 19, 2006, 1:08:55 PM1/19/06
to

Larry Viezel wrote:

> It would be one thing if someone posted something in regards to the
> celebrity's death that was Rocky Horror related. Like perhaps an
> appropriate AP line specificly relating to their career or their death
> that could be used that week at the show. Then it would be clever.

And on that note, anyone that doesn't make the gold mine joke
connection from dead Frank in the pool to Shelly Winters in the
Posiedon Adventure, and doesn't do an AP line based on it, is TOTALLY
missing the boat here... so to speak.

ignoring the rest - I said my part before and I'm not touching it with
LARRY'S 10 foot pole,
jefF
--
CRHAP Con - Chicago - July 27-30th, 2006
http://www.crhap.com/convention.htm
Midnight Madness; Music Box Theatre in Chicago & Official FermiLab Cast
Visit us on that web thingy @ http://www.midnightmadness.org
The Ultimate Rocky Horror Links Page @
http://www.midnightmadness.org/ultimatelink.htm
The Rocky Horror Archives http://www.rockyhorrorarchives.org

jefF - Midnight Madness

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Jan 19, 2006, 1:16:37 PM1/19/06
to

jefF - Midnight Madness wrote:
> in the Posiedon Adventure

or better yet, maybe the "The Poseidon Adventure"

"i" before "e", 'cept after "c"... except in about 47 special cases O.o

special case,

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Jan 19, 2006, 3:07:30 PM1/19/06
to
HELLO!!!!!!!
What the fuck is the matter with you Arthur?????? Taking convention
behavior a bit far this time, I think.
In my opinion (which I am aware you dont want), this rant is highly
juvenile and you are embarrassing yourself completely.
WHO GIVES A RATS FUCK WHAT GETS POSTED????
As someone pointed out, this NG is damn near dead and barely holds its
head above water. I posted awhile back about the dearth of anything
even remotely interesting in months, and yeah, I love a good scandal,
but this is not a scandal, its just a bored reader trying to find
something to pitch a fit over.
Do you have some psychological problem with Bill, or are you just
jonesing for a drink? Either way, YOUR rant is what is not wanted here.
So what if Bill made a post about a dead celebrity? It would seem he
must admire her, and in my mind, thats a positive thing, and shes dead,
which is a sad thing. Shelley Winters was a great actress, a
classically trained actress who earned two Oscars. Lets see, RHPS
boasts only one great actress, Susan Sarandon, who also earned an
Oscar, and a bunch of entertainers. This is a RHPS newsgroup, true, but
its also made up of a bunch of people who do not all share the same
opinions, interests, and life experiences. Ive been slammed for being
off topic before, and my feelings about that are "So fucking what!" Its
still a newsgroup, and who are you, Arthur, to restrict what to someone
else is NEWS, off bloody topic or not?
Oh, and by the way, if you had not turned this into your own personal
Jerry Springer event, Arthur, it would have gone by with very little
attention paid to it.
As in died out.
Get that?
Bev

MIBecky

unread,
Jan 19, 2006, 3:47:04 PM1/19/06
to
Woooof. I haven't been here in a few days. Nice to see that flame
wars can start and continue without me. I'm sure this one would fade
without me, but I feel the need to put in my two cents. Of course.

I am one of those people who thinks it's ridiculous to post obituaries
on this newsgroup. I knew hours before I even came here that Shelly
Winters died. Yahoo told me. I didn't need to see it here. It's
depressing. Depressing and ON topic is fine. Depressing and off topic
is just... depressing.

Should I post when my cat dies? Because that's vaguely on topic - he's
my cat, and I'm involved with this community. He puts up with people
coming to my house all the time for RHPS-related activities... but do
you need ot hear about it? Really? Isn't that LJ fodder?

Arthur got to the end of his rope. I understand that. Many of us have
asked repeatedly that you hold back on your urge to post obits that
aren't related to RHPS personalities. It's depressing, it's
unnecessary. I'd rather see no activity than obit posts. Obit posts
suck.

Lavar got the hint - he stopped posting obits. He respected the
repeated and calm requests that were made. He raised no stink, he just
complied with the community request. It didn't have to get ugly for
him to take notice. That's because Lavar is the shiznit.

If people here calmly requested, en masse or relatively en masse, that
I stop posting *alltogether*, I'd not make a stink and you'd never hear
a peep from me again. It wouldn't have to escalate to this point.
That's what the community wants, they politely requested it, so that's
what they should get. All we're asking here is that you resist your
urge to post regarding this *one* topic - OT Obits. That's it.
Really, it's not a big-deal request, and it's perfectly within your
power to grant. None of us should ever have to feel we're pushed to
the point of flaming or plonking eachother.

MIBecky

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 19, 2006, 4:26:54 PM1/19/06
to
MIBecky>Should I post when my cat dies? Because that's vaguely on topic -
MIBecky>he's my cat, and I'm involved with this community. He puts up
MIBecky>with people coming to my house all the time for RHPS-related
MIBecky>activities... but do you need ot hear about it? Really? Isn't
MIBecky>that LJ fodder?

My son Richard (three guesses who he's named after) is more on-topic
than Shelly Winters. He's the son of two Rocky Horror fans, has been to
over a dozen performances (and taken part in a couple), has been to the
last convention in Las Vegas, has more than one Rocky Horror costume, has
started to almost do the Time Warp, and so forth...
And yet, there's a place for proud paternal gushing (of which I do
quite a lot) and this isn't it. The gushing, and the unreasonable amounts
of digital photos, are placed in the appropriate forum - in my LiveJournal,
in friends-only entries, behind cut tags. So only those whom I've
selected, and who also themselves select, to see these posts are able to.
Yes, many of us have lives outside of Rocky Horror. And guess what?
Those lives are lived outside of the Rocky Horror newsgroup.

MIBecky>I'd rather see no activity than obit posts. Obit posts suck.

I can't help wondering if the low activity on the newsgroup is not, at
least in part, CAUSED by all of the off-topic bullshit. Many former
newsgroup regulars don't bother coming in here anymore at all. My wife
doesn't even follow the newsgroup anymore - she trusts me to let her know
if she's missing anything important.
And who knows? Someday I might actually have to tell her that she is.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 19, 2006, 4:33:54 PM1/19/06
to
Bev>Its [sic] still a newsgroup,

It's a ROCKY HORROR newsgroup. For ROCKY HORROR news. alt.obituaries
is an OBITUARY newsgroup. For OBITUARY news. Do you see how there is more
than one newsgroup on the internet, each dedicated to different topics, or
do I need to explain it again even more slowly?

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Jan 19, 2006, 11:37:34 PM1/19/06
to
Yes Arthur, I do understand your (and everyone elses) point. My point
is that there was no need to get so rude and obscene to Bill for making
a post you (and others) dont like. It seems to me you have more of a
problem with Bill than his post.
For myself, I really could give a shit what gets posted here anymore,
its generally so boring I just skim past everything and go on to my
other groups. For instance, reading the latest obsessions over what
Johnny Depp is reading, or how he rolls his cigarettes. I just read
that for entertainment, mind you, I have never posted. Theres no point.
Personal attacks coming out of left field like yours to Bill bother me.
The fact that this place HAS to adhere to rules of topic AT ALL TIMES
bothers me. Just how much really is there to say anymore about this
film?
Life does go on, you know.
Bev

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 4:25:50 AM1/20/06
to
Bev>My point is that there was no need to get so rude and obscene to Bill
Bev>a post you (and others) dont like.

That would be true if it were a single post. It wasn't.

That would be true if people hadn't tried to be polite in the past.
We had. "Many of us have asked repeatedly that you hold back on your urge
to post obits that aren't related to RHPS personalities." -MIBecky.

That would be true if Bill hadn't responded to my previous post with
what Larry Viesel referred to as "basicly giving a big 'fuck you' to this

group and its readers, the very people you call your friends."

Bev>It seems to me you have more of a problem with Bill than his post.

It seems to me that you are deliberately ignoring everything else
everyone has said or done. It's not just me and it's not just Bill.

Bev>Personal attacks coming out of left field

It only came out of left field if you haven't been paying attention,
or if you're deliberately being obtuse.

Larry Viezel

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 7:36:48 AM1/20/06
to
Bev> The fact that this place HAS to adhere to rules of topic AT ALL
TIMES
Bev> bothers me.

Actually, I don't think thats the case. There is plenty of room for off
topic posts. I deffinately like the occasional off-topic post and love
to see how people try to bring it on topic in some way. But with the
traffic being as low as its been and the celebrity deaths being as
regular as they've been, this particular off-topic topic has gotten
annoying. Several members have complained about it for several months
now. People thought it was over and done with considering that a few
celebrity deaths passed without nary a mention. When it reared its ugly
head again Arthur, who was really leading the front against these
posts, went balls out. He probably did it even harder because it was
Bill - not because of any personal vendeta or because he hates bill or
what have you, but because, like I said, Bill should have known better.

Larry.

James

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 9:32:02 AM1/20/06
to
Any reason this is linked to my reply instead of Arthur's? Just when I
was feeling left out...

I think Becky said it well.

"I am one of those people who thinks it's ridiculous to post obituaries
on this newsgroup. I knew hours before I even came here that Shelly
Winters died. Yahoo told me. I didn't need to see it here. It's
depressing. Depressing and ON topic is fine. Depressing and off topic
is just... depressing."

Which is a big part of why I don't like it. The other part, which
Arthur summed up as "Cascades of 'Look how sensitive I am' bullshit" is
the other. I mean, really. Patently PC behavior for the purpose of
being PC is pretty disgusting. If it had been Bill's favortie
off-topic entertainer who had died, a true icon, and Bill had been
genuinely moved rather than "Geez, there's been no activitiy. I should
post SOMEthing...here's an excuse." (which is the way it comes across,
I do not claim to have ESP here) then I think we all would have said
"Okay" and moved on.

We get assaulted with this crap all the time though. And it is CRAP.

Yes, Arthur's post was exceptionally rude. So would my response be if
you slapped me in the fact, which is in effect what Arthur probably
felt this was like. Someone who supposedly respects all of us doesn't
comply with a simple respectful request to not troll about a particular
topic. So I think he wanted to see if nasty would get more
attention...

And it did. Over and over.

Maybe Bev, the problem isn't Arthur......

By the way... since you said it:


"Oh, and by the way, if you had not turned this into your own personal
Jerry Springer event,"

Bev.... POT... KETTLE.... MEXICAN. :)

MIBecky

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 12:56:09 PM1/20/06
to

oldsp...@att.net wrote:

> The fact that this place HAS to adhere to rules of topic AT ALL TIMES
> bothers me. Just how much really is there to say anymore about this
> film?
> Life does go on, you know.
> Bev

Bev, I understand you have retired. I understand there's really no
RHPS in your area, unless I'm wrong about that. I understand you're
out of touch with the rest of us. But if there's nothing more for you
to say, nothing more that interests you, why are you still here at all?
Why not obsess over Johnny Depp instead of RHPS or these posts? Is it
that you don't get enough dirt on the Johnny Depp newsgroups? Are you
only here to read dirt? That's sad. Get a book. Watch a soap. Heck,
watch a reality series. Jeez.

OT before the subject of a post allows people the choice to not read OT
posts if they don't want to. That doesn't mean those posts are
unwelcome, it means they're marked so those of us who don't want to
read OT posts on the RHPS newsgroup don't have to. It's a courtesy. I
believe there was a thread a while ago that requested we all put "OT"
before off-topic posts. No one raised a stink that I remember,
everyone complied with that simple request, and all was well. Why
can't people comply with this simple request?

Bev, one more thing - just because there's no action around you doesn't
mean there's no action. You are not the center of the galaxy of
Transylvania. If you think RHPS is dying, if you no longer feel
supportive of it and instead prefer to sling insults because we're not
entertaining you, why are you still here?

MIBecky

MIBecky

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 12:58:27 PM1/20/06
to
It's linked here because this was probably the last post Bev read
before she responded. I do that sometimes myself.

MIBecky

Douglas North

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 3:20:01 PM1/20/06
to
>Most regulars on the newsgroup have asked that it not be posted.


I disagree. I have seen three, maybe four people complaining (ad
nauseum) about these sorts of posts. Likewise, I have seen a similar
number of people responding to them either positively or ambivalently,
or using it as an opportunity to blab about some other aspect of that
person's career/personality, often times coming back to some sort of
Rocky-related issue.

Hardly a landslide.

Perhaps if there was a good amount of on-topic conversation going on of
late, with which this was "competing for space", I could understand the
extreme aversion some people have to these posts. Similarly, I can't
understand why people would choose to complain about off-topic posts
with equally off-topic posts which are five-to-ten times longer than the
original post itself.

When I come to this, or any newsgroup, I come aware that there will be
some subjects in which I have no interest. And if I have no interest in
a subject, I certainly don't get personally invested in vehemently
expressing my disinterest. That sends a mixed message. If I can skip
past "O/T: Bush Sucks!" or "O/T: Hedwig Perfomance Next August in BFE"
then (just a suggestion) some might possibly find it easier to learn to
skip past "O/T: RIP (random sitcom star)" or simply killfile any post
containing "RIP" and "O/T" in the subject line.

(Disclaimer: Nothing personal against/in favor of anyone in particular.
Just my views on a subject that has come up dozens of times in recent
memory always to the same inane back-and-forth conclusion.)

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 4:18:55 PM1/20/06
to
James (james....@cox.net) wrote:
JN>Maybe Bev, the problem isn't Arthur......
JN>Bev.... POT... KETTLE.... MEXICAN. :)

Isn't it funny that Google calls Bev an old spic?
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7063/oldspic1yy.gif

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 4:21:32 PM1/20/06
to

Douglas North

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 8:01:12 PM1/20/06
to
<<Robert Mitchum
His character in Night of the Hunter may have been the inspiration for
Eddie's LOVE/HATE tattoos.>>

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder who co-starred with him in that movie. I
seem to remember hearing that his character murdered his wife.... wish I
knew who played her. :)


<<Michael Kamen
No connection to RHPS whatsoever>>

You mean, apart from covering "The Time Warp" in 1978?

The only problem with this list and the point it's trying to make is,
although it is easy to say," No connection whatsoever," it isn't always
so, and everyone's definitions of "connection" are not necessarily the
same.

Many of those listed as "no connection" would probably be of interest to
members of this group due to us tending to be of similar age (Captain
Kangaroo), having similar interests in "cult" icons (any member of the
Ramones, Russ Meyer, etc.) or because they are were an important
national figure (JFK Jr., Rosa Parks), though the last category would be
the most tenuous IMO.

So, while I can understand a slight annoyance at seeing an outpouring of
appreciation (or, "Bullshit PC posturing" if you want to call it that)
for someone like Rosa Parks spilling over into this NG, I can't
understand understand people taking it as a personal affront, nor do I
see it as a big "Fuck you" from Bill or anyone else who posts a RIP for
someone genuinely unrelated to RH. Marking the posts as "OT" seems to me
sufficient to remove that impression. If you want to argue against *all*
OT posts, that's another issue, and I might agree with you on that. But
to get so worked up over these is, IMO, a waste of energy and time.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 9:19:04 PM1/20/06
to
LarryV>Most regulars on the newsgroup have asked that it not be posted.

Douglas North (Pample...@webtv.net) wrote:
DN>I disagree. I have seen three, maybe four people complaining

These days, that practically *IS* a majority, or at least a quorum, of
newsgroup regulars. Be that as it may, three or four people is simply the
number of people complaining THIS time, in THIS thread. I've quoted
others, provided links to others, and you can see others in the LiveJournal
post (which I know you've read).
Still, at least you're to be commended for seeing that many. Bev and
Bill are acting shocked and surprised, as though this is the first time
anyone has EVER objected; and specifically claiming that I'M the only one
with a problem. Bev's clearly full of shit, but with Bill it's hard to
tell whether it's a disconnect with truth or reality.

DN>(ad nauseum) about these sorts of posts.

You know, it wouldn't be POSSIBLE for us to complain about these posts
ad nauseum if they weren't being MADE ad nauseum. Even I was surprised at
the quantity, and duration, of this crap once I spent just a little time on
Google.

DN>Likewise, I have seen a similar number of people...

Regulars? Near as I can tell, obituaries are pretty much the only
things Randy Brown does around here, since he no longer has Bakers and
Castle Transylvanians here to snipe at from a safe distance.
Bev's allegedly retired, and anyone who calls themself "The Usually
Silent Tim" is hardly a regular poster.

DN>Perhaps if there was a good amount of on-topic conversation going on
DN>of late, with which this was "competing for space",

Au contraire, one of the things most annoying about this bullshit is
the fact that it's the only thing on the newsgroup much of the time. Ever
heard of a signal-to-noise ratio? It would be much more tolerable if it
were a minor distraction from NG business rather than appearing to BE the
newsgroup's business.

DN>I could understand the extreme aversion some people have to these
DN>posts.

What's to understand? I, and others, have already quite clearly
STATED a number of objections to these posts. These objections remain
ignored and unanswered; you join the throng in pretending they're not there
and either (1) acting befuddled at why people could possibly object, as
though no one had ever tried to explain why, or (2) constructing a false
straw man to attack instead of addressing the actual objections.

DT>When I come to this, or any newsgroup, I come aware that there will be
DT>some subjects in which I have no interest.

I have no interest in Dori Hartley or Phantom of the Paradise, but
those are at least partially on-topic subjects.

DT>some might possibly find it easier to learn to skip past "O/T: RIP
DT>(random sitcom star)" or simply killfile any post containing "RIP" and
DT>"O/T" in the subject line.

If obituary posts were consistantly labelled, then that would be
possible; but they're not. And believe me, that's yet another thing that
has been requested many times - and ignored by the "I'll post what I want
how I want when I want" assholes.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 9:33:28 PM1/20/06
to
AL>Michael Kamen - No connection to RHPS whatsoever

Douglas North>You mean, apart from covering "The Time Warp" in 1978?

You'd think someone would have stated that when you posted the obit,
but it's not anywhere in the thread. One more on-topic obit does nothing
to change the balance of the list from overwhelmingly off-topic.

DT>The only problem with this list and the point it's trying to make is,
DT>although it is easy to say," No connection whatsoever,"

Very easy, since I made extensive use of copy/paste in setting up that
table.

DT>it isn't always so, and everyone's definitions of "connection" are not
DT>necessarily the same.

If you play "six degrees", you can link *anybody* to Rocky Horror, and
then any distinction becomes meaningless and there's no point having a
Rocky Horror newsgroup in the first place.

DT>Many of those listed as "no connection" would probably be of interest
DT>to members of this group due to us tending to be of similar age
DT>(Captain Kangaroo)

That does not change the fact that they are unrelated to Rocky Horror.
I don't care how many people here thought Princess Di and Rosa Parks were
saints, the fact remains that they have nothing to do with the Rocky Horror
Picture Show.

DT>having similar interests in "cult" icons (any member of the Ramones,

That's why there's alt.music.ramones

I know that I, and a number of others on this newsgroup (including
Bill Brennan), are fans of anime. But since this is not an anime
newsgroup, we generally don't discuss it much here. There are plenty of
other places where anime is on-topic and where everyone else in also
interested in anime (else why would they be there?) so those are the
logical places to discuss those shows.

DT>or because they are were an important national figure

There are plenty of fora for those discussions as well.

DT>(JFK Jr.,

JFK was an important national figure. JFK Jr. was not.

DT>So, while I can understand a slight annoyance at seeing an outpouring
DT>of appreciation

Read the threads. Some of them seem merely the result of people
playing "first comment!" any time a celebrity dies. Immediately after a
minor, unimportant, and completely off-topic celebrity died, I've seen
people making bets over who would win the race to post the news here first.

DT>Marking the posts as "OT" seems to me sufficient to remove that
impression.

If only they would do that, but they don't. However, a much better
solution (which they'll also comform with around about the time Hell
freezes over) is a specific and consistent tag for obituary posts.

James

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 10:04:53 PM1/20/06
to
You shouldn't have said that; your father doesn't like mexicans! :)

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 10:18:57 PM1/20/06
to
OK..........I guess a comment made several years ago about two Mexican
drug addicted teenagers breaking into my daughters car by breaking
three windows (overkill much?) and ripping out her stereo and stealing
all her CDs, her diary, her day planner, and her car tools is enough to
get me branded around here. Whatever.......
Not to say that they were finally caught, by my neighbor, and friend,
who is a Mexican national (note use of the word "friend" since he is),
while they were in the act of breaking into his work truck in an
attempt to steal same. I guess Mexican drug addicted teenagers dont
respect their own people any more than they respect Americans, but
still, I get branded for commenting on their actions. Hmmmmm......
By the way, they were both brought to court and sentenced to 18 months
in corrections. I saw no need to post it at the time since, after all,
it WAS off topic.
Oh, and Arthur? My grandmother was part Mexican, brought up in San Luis
Potosi, so I guess your old spic comment may just be partially true.
Touche.
Bev

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 10:35:34 PM1/20/06
to
On the topic of my boredom with this newsgroup, can you honestly say
its been all that interesting of late? Generally I look at it a couple
times a week, and invariably its the same post from the week before at
the top, with no comments added. Not my fault I have an opinion on
that, I just do.
Far as the Johnny Depp newsgroups, they entertain me lately. Why not?
Its a bunch of women who are so obsessed with him they dissect every
little thing the poor man does. Kasey turned me onto it, and I freely
admit it gives me a chuckle. I dont post, no need. I just read them the
way I used to read this. When it gave me a chuckle.
OK, as far as RHPS in Denver, its dead. Not my doing, rather the antics
of the current cast seem to have gotten them pitched out of every
theater theyve had lately, and now they can only get a show every few
months on a one off basis. It makes me sad since losing a city should,
but Im not sorry THEY have no theater. Id sooner see a better cast in
this city, but its not likely to happen after the high jinks around
here. There are next to no indie theaters in Denver, and this cast has
burned out even those. I am still very supportive of RHPS, and if I had
it in me, which I dont, Id try to put together a show that would work
for these theaters. I have recently been asked by a theater in Wyoming
to bring a show up there as a one off. I just might in the summer. As a
charity fund raiser.
Dont get the wrong idea Becky, I am not wishing to insult anyone, but
really, I do have a lot of diverse interests, as do you, and am no
longer involved as closely with a weekly show as you are. Please dont
take me to task for it. Im just wanting to see more interesting stuff
on this group. And if its scandalous, then so be it! One post a week
and the proliferation of spam doesnt make the most scintillating
reading!!
And I never thought I was the center of the galaxy of anything! That
just makes me laugh. Actually thank you for the chuckle!!
Bev

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Jan 20, 2006, 10:58:36 PM1/20/06
to
Can I just suggest something, Arthur?
Is it even remotely possible that Bill wasnt being obtuse? Could he
have just been forgetful? I know Bill, hes one of my best friends, and
I can personally attest to how absent minded he is. I mean Hideously
absent minded!!! Its completely possible, even probable, that he just
made the post in a spaced out stoned moment. Im positive it wasnt in
his mind that it would piss off anyone! He simply wasnt thinking about
the newsgroups request that no one post obits, that is, if said request
ever lodged itself in his mind anyway. Fact is, Ive never seen such a
request. It could have slid by me on one of those periods where I wasnt
reading. And I know for a fact that Bill doesnt read it more than once
or twice a week either. We talk about it, he will ask me whats up on
the group, and Ill either tell him or tell him that I havent looked at
it either.
So could you please lighten up here? Not everyone here has the rules of
etiquette branded on their minds you know. Shit happens.
Bev

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 21, 2006, 7:28:57 AM1/21/06
to
Bev>Can I just suggest something, Arthur? Is it even remotely possible
Bev>that Bill wasnt being obtuse? Could he have just been forgetful?

That's possible. But either way, normal, polite requests simply
weren't getting through.

Bev>I know Bill, hes one of my best friends, and I can personally attest
Bev>to how absent minded he is. I mean Hideously absent minded!!!

You must admit, though, that he's noticed the objections now. "I find
that the extreme always makes an impression." -Christian Slater, "Heathers"

Bev>Its completely possible, even probable, that he just made the post

...that post, and many many others...

Bev>in a spaced out stoned moment. Im positive it wasnt in his mind that
Bev>it would piss off anyone!

I've also known Bill for some time. Yes, sometimes he's absent
minded; but sometimes he's also deceptive, back-stabbing, or unpleasant.
Either way...

Bev>So could you please lighten up here?

No.

You keep insinuating that the problem lies with me, and only with me.
It doesn't.

If people won't stop posting this shit, or adequately labelling it so
as to allow selective thread killfiling, then I'll either escalate the
requests or simply killfile the offenders entirely.
In case you, or he, or anyone else doesn't know what "*plonk*" means,
it means that both Bill Brennan and Randy Brown have been added to my
killfile. That means that, until such a time as things change, ANYTHING
they post will be filtered out by my newsreader.

Bev>Not everyone here has the rules of etiquette branded on their minds
Bev>you know.

At this point, no one can (honestly) make the claim that they aren't
aware that non-Rocky-related obituaries are off-topic and unwanted. As I
said above, even if Bill Brennan somehow managed to miss each and every
single objection posted in the past by me, Larry, MIBecky, Ruth, James, et
al.;[1] he is certainly aware of them now.
If he continue to posts them, then we are free to speculate on his
motivation - "deliberate and willful trolling" comes to mind.

Bev>Shit happens.

Yep. And shit will continue to happen in response.


--
/\ Arthur Levesque <fnord?> http://boog.org & http://DammitJa.net __
\B\ack King of the Potato People & shanana-Cobain <*> Urban Spaceman (oO)
\S\lash Screw the cheese-eating surrender monkeys! Sweet Transvestite /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable! My work here is done...

[1] And that's just in newsgroup posts. No, I'm not playing "the lurkers
support me in email", but this subject has also been discussed in other
places like LiveJournal. I've seen far more than Douglas North's
"three or four people" objecting to this.

Kevin

unread,
Jan 22, 2006, 11:32:12 AM1/22/06
to
Douglas North wrote:
>>Most regulars on the newsgroup have asked that it not be posted.
>
>
>
> I disagree. I have seen three, maybe four people complaining (ad
> nauseum) about these sorts of posts.

Some object but don't post much. (raises own hand)

Kevin

Randy Brown

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:07:44 PM1/23/06
to

Arthur Levesque wrote:
>
> Regulars? Near as I can tell, obituaries are pretty much the only
> things Randy Brown does around here, since he no longer has Bakers and
> Castle Transylvanians here to snipe at from a safe distance.

Someone please tell Arthur that I haven't mentioned any of those people
in ANY forum in many, many years. AFAIC that story is dead history.
(You can Google it.) Also, after the last big flap over obits I
stopped (my reply to Bill's post notwithstanding).

However, I HAVE made frequent posts about shows for Satanic Mechanics,
Sweet Translucent Dreams, and other casts. I also responded to the
post about RHPS being inducted into the Library of Congress' list of
historic films, with a mention of the movie making #30 in Blender
Magazine's list of the greatest rock'n'roll movies.

--RB

Quality

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 8:11:13 AM1/24/06
to
Anybody got any gum?

---
Art Laurie means Quality! Ask for him by name!
Quality Brad since 1979! AIM/Yahoo/LJ Quality617
The Teseracte Players of Boston! The Full Body Cast!
We keep you alive to serve this show.
www.teseracte.com www.fullbodycast.org www.purr3d.com


Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 24, 2006, 4:19:28 PM1/24/06
to
Quality>Anybody got any gum?

I came here for two reasons ... And I'm all out of chewing gum.

P.J. Gaynard

unread,
Jan 25, 2006, 4:52:57 PM1/25/06
to
You people are silly. That guy wrote two sentences and you've stretched
it to almost 50 posts. Next time, try doing what most sane people do
regarding things of no interest to them, ignore it.

And keep it real like oatmeal.

PJ Gaynard
>From W.U.T. (my seventh cast.)

MIBecky

unread,
Jan 25, 2006, 5:10:53 PM1/25/06
to


You obviously don't understand the history here, P.J. Next time, it
might be good policy to read up and understand WHY there's such an
uproar before making such comments. Love you, man, but you don't have
a clue.

MIBecky

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 25, 2006, 6:07:30 PM1/25/06
to
MIBecky>You obviously don't understand the history here, P.J.

Always glad to help.

Date The Deceased Comment
========== ======================== ==========================================
1994-04-05 Richard O'Brien Wrote Rocky Horror and played Riff Raff on
stage and screen, reports of his death
were greatly exaggerated.
1994-04-06 Richard O'Brien Wrote Rocky Horror and played Riff Raff on
stage and screen, reports of his death
were greatly exaggerated.
1996-08-22 Tim Curry Played Dr. Frank-N-Furter on stage and
screen, was falsely rumored to have died.
1996-12-20 Christopher Divel Former Philedelphia TTP floorshow cast
member.
1997-01-08 Millard Fillmore No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
1997-06-05 Angela a.k.a. "Squeaky" A regular at Billy Joe's Pitcher Show
1997-07-07 Robert Mitchum His character in Night of the Hunter may


have been the inspiration for Eddie's
LOVE/HATE tattoos.

1997-10-01 Eli Jacobs Former cast member, Barely Legal,
California.
1997-10-19 Eileen Worked at a donut shop frequented by
members of Simply His Servants, the
Cleveland, OH, floorshow cast.
1998-04-10 Wendy O. Williams "Wendy O. played Magenta in a production
of the Rocky Horror Show at the Westport
Playhouse in St. Louis, MO in 1985. They
gave her most of Riff's lines too, and she
wore basically nothing for the Space
Scene. The regular Magenta costumes was
kind of a pissed-off waitress outfit with
legwarmers. She was offered the part of
Frank, but turned it down."
-Ruth Fink-Winter
1998-06-29 Josephine Watts Mother of an Allentown floorshow cast
member.
1998-08-25 Dale Jewel Deputy Stage Manager, an Australian
production of The Rocky Horror Show
1998-09-30 Tom Bradley Once signed this proclamation: "Now,
therefore, I, Tom Bradley, Mayor of the
City of Los Angeles, do hereby proclaim
October 18, 1990, as 'Rocky Horror Picture
Show Day' in Los Angeles, and extend our
best wishes for continued success in the
future."
1999-02-05 Lily St. Cyr Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "God bless Lili St. Cyr!"
1999-02-05 Lily St. Cyr Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "God bless Lili St. Cyr!"
1999-02-05 Lily St. Cyr Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "God bless Lili St. Cyr!"
1999-04-10 Larisa Kabara "Dear friend" of the Translucent Dreams
Cast of Woodbridge, NJ.
1999-07-18 John F. Kennedy Jr. No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
1999-11-02 Lily St. Cyr Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "God bless Lili St. Cyr!"
2000-02-25 Jim Sharman Director of The Rocky Horror Picture Show,
falsely rumored to have died.
2000-03-05 Luke Sienkowski's father No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2000-03-08 Charles Gray Played the Criminologist (an Expert) in
The Rocky Horror Picture Show and Judge
Oliver Wright in Shock Treatment.
2000-05-02 Steve Reeves Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "We could take in an old Steve
Reeves movie."
2000-05-06 Steve Reeves Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "We could take in an old Steve
Reeves movie."
2000-06-25 Nell Campbell "Little Nell" Campbell, who played
Columbia on stage and screen, was falsely
rumored to have died.
2001-04-11 Gabriel Godin Gabe was a member of the TooMuchCoffeeCast
2001-04-16 Joey Ramone No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2001-05-02 Julie Filmon Walton Long-time Columbia from half a dozen
Pinellas and Hillsborough County casts
2001-05-12 Douglas Adams No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2001-05-15 Douglas Adams No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2001-06-28 Jack Lemmon Performed in a movie with Susan Sarandon.
If everybody who'd ever appeared on screen
with a Rocky Horror star was on-topic,
then we'd have to treat Alec Baldwin,
Michael J. Fox, and Dori Hartley as Rocky
celebrities.
2001-07-01 Jim Ellis No connection to RHPS whatsoever. As the
co-creator of Usenet, however, he's
probably spinning in his grave.
2001-09-12 Berry Berenson No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2001-09-12 Dan Levin Former tech crew member of the RKO Players
of Rhode Island.
2002-01-28 Astrid Lindgren No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-02-14 Waylon Jennings No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-02-23 Chuck Jones No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-02-28 Spike Milligan No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-03-27 Milton Berle No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-03-27 Dudley Moore No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-03-28 Billy Wilder Directed a movie with Susan Sarandon in
it.
2002-04-24 Linda Lovelace No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-06-06 Dee Dee Ramone No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-07-05 Ted Williams No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-11-05 Jonathan Harris No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-11-19 James Coburn No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2002-12-12 Graham Freeborn Eddie's make-up artist.
2002-12-15 Richard O'Brien Unlike Generalissimo Francisco Franco,
Richard O'Brien is not still dead.
2002-12-23 Joe Strummer No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-02-27 Fred Rogers No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-03-24 Daniel Britt a.k.a. "Nad is Dog", California Barely
Legal floorshow cast member.
2003-04-12 Little Eva No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-04-29 Graham Jarvis Played the Criminologist/Narrator in The
Rocky Horror Show
2003-05-11 Mysti Mysti, a.k.a. A Timplistic Girl, was an
attention whore who claimed she was going
to kill herself.
2003-06-07 Sir Robert Stephens Husband of Patricia Quinn, who played
Magenta on stage and screen.
2003-06-12 David Brinkley No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-06-16 Eric Verfuerth A member of the Washington, DC, Trojan
Whores floorshow cast.
2003-06-17 Hume Cronyn No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-06-23 William Marshall No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-06-30 Katharine Hepburn No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-07-04 Barry White No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-07-07 Buddy Ebsen No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-07-12 Gregory Peck No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-07-28 Bob Hope No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-08-11 Gregory Hine No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-01 Charles Bronson No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-09 Warren Zevon No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-12 John Ritter No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-12 Johnny Cash No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-18 Sheb Wooley No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-09-26 Robert Palmer No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-10-23 Fred Berry No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-10-26 Jack Elam No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-11-06 Bobby Hatfield No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-11-07 Mike Lockwood No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-11-11 Art Carney No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2003-11-20 Michael Kamen Covered "The Time Warp" in 1978.
2004-01-22 Ann Miller Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Show: "Eat
your heart out, Ann Miller!"
2004-01-23 Bob Keeshan No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-01-23 Bob Keeshan No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-02-11 Robert Atkins No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-02-15 Hugh Cecil Played a Transylvanian (bald with monocle)
in The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
2004-03-06 Hugh Cecil Played a Transylvanian (bald with monocle)
in The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
2004-03-10 Paul Winfield Costarred with Tim Curry in the TV show
Wiseguy.
2004-03-18 Mercedes McCambridge No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-04-10 Nick and Mary Yankovic No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-04-12 Nick and Mary Yankovic No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-05-18 Tony Randall No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-06-10 Ray Charles No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-07-02 Marlon Brando No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-08-06 Rick James No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-08-09 Fay Wray Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "Whatever happened to Fay Wray?"
2004-08-09 Fay Wray Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "Whatever happened to Fay Wray?"
2004-08-09 Fay Wray Mentioned in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show: "Whatever happened to Fay Wray?"
2004-08-13 Julia Child No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-09-16 Johnny Ramone No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-09-24 Russ Meyer No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-10-04 Janet Leigh No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-10-05 Rodney Dangerfield No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-10-07 Jim a.k.a. "Felicity" Member of the California Barely Legal
floorshow cast.
2004-10-11 Christopher Reeve No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2004-11-01 Cariane Gauze A member of the Texas Queerios floorshow
cast.
2004-12-09 Darrell Abbott No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-01-15 Frank Roccasanto Played Frank-N-Furter in a local
production of The Rocky Horror Show as
well being an Allentown, PA, floorshow
cast member.
2005-01-23 Johnny Carson No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-01-24 Johnny Carson No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-02-04 John Vernon No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-02-25 Jeffrey Arundel Ralph a.k.a. "Scary Old Guy", Arizona Broadway
Bound & Gagged floorshow cast member.
2005-05-18 Frank Gorshin No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-05-29 Eddie Albert No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-06-22 Jonathan Adams Played the Dr. Everett Von Scott (a Rival
Scientist) in The Rocky Horror Picture
Show and the Criminologist in The Rocky
Horror Show
2005-06-26 Imogen Claire Played a Transylvanian in The Rocky Horror
Picture Show and the Wardrobe Mistress in
Shock Treatment
2005-07-20 James Doohan No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-09-06 Bob Denver No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-09-26 Don Adams No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-10-15 Charles Rocket No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-10-25 Elmer "Len" Dresslar Jr. No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2005-10-31 Rosa Parks No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2006-01-15 Shelly Winters No connection to RHPS whatsoever.
2006-01-25 Chris Penn No connection to RHPS whatsoever.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Jan 26, 2006, 3:30:08 PM1/26/06
to
P.J. Gaynard (pjg...@yahoo.com) wrote:
PJG>You people are silly. That guy wrote two sentences and you've
PJG>stretched it to almost 50 posts.

You are ignorant.

There are some who continue to insist, either through willful
ignorance or deliberate deceptiveness, that threads about dead people are a
minor, recent phenomenon on alt.cult-movies.rocky-horror. "It's just one
post," has been said more than once, pretending that the current thread is
the first and only one of its kind. I have compiled this chart[1] which
identifies one hundred and forty-one threads about dead people, containing
a total of one thousand, two hundred, and eighty-eight posts. Furthermore,
this chart goes all the way back to 1993 – though it doesn't really pick up
steam until the late nineties, and veer off into sheer gratuitous offtopic
bullshit territory until 2002.

Another claim which has been made multiple times, without any basis in
fact or reality, is that the real problem, the bulk of these threads, are
the "three, maybe four people complaining (ad nauseum) about the obituaries
and not the hundreds of pointless "silent posts" and other smarmy me-toos.
In fact of the matter, the first complaint which I've found was made in by
James Norman on 23 November, 2003:
"I've been biting my tongue for a long time. I understand sometimes
the need to post about someone having died. I think I even did it once (Bob
Hope, someone who was TRULY a legend.) But sometimes I get on this group
and feel like it's a "Death Watch" and almost never has to do with Rocky. I
realize the header says "OT" but at times, the death posts seem to
overwhelm the group. I'm a bit conflicted about my own feelings here, but
is there a tasteful way we can get away from this constant "So and so died
stuff?" I get enough of that on the news."

Neither his complaint, nor the single complaint made in 2004 ("No more
death posts this week!!!" -The Incredible, Edible E, 13 August 2004), had
any effect on the twenty-eight obituary threads posted in the year 2004
(eulogizing such Rocky Horror notables as Captain Kangaroo, Weird Al
Yankovic's parents, the voice of the demon from The Exorcist, Tony Randall,
Ray Charles, Marlon Brando, Rick James, Julia Child, Johnny Ramone, Janet
Leigh, Rodney Dangerfield, Christopher Reeve, and Darrell Abbott.

"Is there a newsgroup for celebrity death notices? If not, someone
here needs to start one," said Kevin J Boycik, on 4 February 2005, as the
Death March continued. It wasn't until September, in the year's thirteenth
death thread, that I snarkily asked "I forget - which Transylvanian did he
play?" for the first of four times (6 September 2005, 26 September 2005, 15
October 2005, and 25 October 2005). People actually missed the sarcasm when
Mark Tomaino said, "Good thing I read this NG or I would NEVER know when a
celebrity death was..." on 8 September 2005.
"I don't watch any TV at all, and I've switched from radio to
audiobooks while I drive. Nevertheless, any time even a modest celebrity
dies, people gleefully swamp each and every newsgroup with news of it, as
well as half the livejournals on my friends page, half a dozen emails in my
inbox, yadda yadda yadda," I said (on 8 September 2005), in a post which
also contained the first request for a specific subject line tag "like
[obituary], for easy killfiling". People (like Douglas North) think they're
being clever when they say that this step is all that is necessary, so we
should stop complaining. Maybe if the necrospammers actually did this we
would stop complaining; but until then, the mere hypothetical concept of a
possible solution does nobody any good. The death threads are not uniformly
labelled in any way; they do not all have "OT", "RIP", or any other common
element in either the subject line or the body of text. I am constantly
coming across additional threads with subject lines like "EDDIE ALBERT
1906-2005", "Marlyn Brando?", Goodbye, Charles Bronson. ):", or the truly
classy "Mr. Rogers bought the farm :(".

I finally posted my first big rant on the topic on 18 October 2005, to
rave reviews: "Thanks for saying so, Arthur. My only use for dead C-list
celebrities is to use as the next week's callback line when Riff opens the
coffin. I have a non-Rocky life too, and like Arthur, I live it in
non-Rocky places." -Ruth Fink-Winter, 18 October 2005. "Apply everything
else Arthur said as if I did as well. Give it up already people. The only
joke here anymore on this subject is how long it'll take for some jamoke
here to mention some random dead celebrity that wouldn't know Rocky Horror
from a hole in the wall. I don't even want MY OWN death mentioned here."
-jefF, 19 October 2005. "I honestly feel the RHPS newsgroup is for RHPS
News, discussions that are OT should have some pertinence, and should be
listed as OT. Pertinent RHPS News includes news about the stars of the
film, as well as local news or information about community members or
events... I'm one of those people who has Yahoo as my front page. When I
see Obituaries on Yahoo, I ALWAYS know someone is going to post them here.
Makes me want to avoid the NG for a couple of days. It's tedious and this
isn't the place for it. If this Newsgroup is your ONLY source for this kind
of info, that's sad. If it is, it's YOU who have nothing else to do in life
but dwell on RHPS, not us. I get my news from the BBC and occasionally from
Yahoo (double-checked, of course, if I care about it). The RHPS Newsgroup
simply isn't the place for it." -MIBecky, 19 October 2005.
"Halle-Fucking-Lulah. Maybe it'll stop now. Hopefully it'll stop now. No,
it probably won't, but I'm glad you said something." -James Norman, 20
October 2005. "Someone else pointed out that I forgot to insult his mother
while I was at it. I guess I can't do *everything*." -Arthur Levesque, 20
October 2005

Some people insisted that the death of Rosa Parks was somehow relevant
to Rocky Horror; or, at the very least, no one could possibly object to a
thread about her. Wrong. "I forget, which Transylvanian was she again? Oh
yeah, the one stuck at the end of the line. P.S. I fucked your mother."
-Arthur Levesque, 25 October 2005. "This is Rocky Horror. You want
respectful conversation about the late Rosa Parks, then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE."
-Arthur Levesque, 27 October 2005.

After that, there was a month and a half reprieve, during which we
thought we were finally free of the obituary whores. Then Bill Brennan had
to open his big fat mouth over Shelley Winters. "And that's when I shot
him, your honor."


--
/\ Arthur Levesque <fnord?> http://boog.org & http://DammitJa.net __
\B\ack King of the Potato People & shanana-Cobain <*> Urban Spaceman (oO)
\S\lash Screw the cheese-eating surrender monkeys! Sweet Transvestite /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable! My work here is done...

[1] Go to http://community.livejournal.com/rockyhorrorshow/550497.html in
order to find this link and links all other relevant URLs.

Don Charette

unread,
Feb 2, 2006, 9:45:41 PM2/2/06
to
Simple Solutions:

If you don't like the topic, don't open it or read it...
If this board is located in the USA, then the freedom of speech thing comes
into play....
If you can't make a point without calling names, questioning parentage, or
writing even civilly, find a grown-up to do it for you....

My 2-cents

Don


Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 2, 2006, 9:59:31 PM2/2/06
to
Don>If this board is located in the USA, then the freedom of speech thing
Don>comes into play....

Don>If you can't make a point without calling names, questioning parentage,
Don>or writing even civilly, find a grown-up to do it for you....

Your two points contradict each other. If they can post anything
they want, covered by "the freedom of speech thing", then I can post
anything I want in response, covered by the exact same "freedom of speech
thing."

Don>My 2-cents

I've been overcharged, I'm sure.

UKEDDIE

unread,
Feb 3, 2006, 10:31:42 AM2/3/06
to
*puts on handy Eddie helmet*

I see this newsgroup as a place where like minded people can get
together and discuss what we have or havnt in common. I must admit i
dont get a lot of what you talk about somtimes, this side of the water
but im prepared to accept it as not everythings gonna be relevant to me
or Rocky beacause as you said we have lives outside rocky but it is
nice to talk to rocky people about non rocky stuff at times. OK there
have been quite a few obits, but as long as they are not just posted
cos they died but have a relevance not only to rocky but maybe a
relevance to the person posting, Such as the Christopher Reeve one He
was a real role model to me in various ways at various points in my
life both as a character (superman) and a real human being beating the
odds.

If this just became a pure rocky info thread itd be pretty boring place
to visit, how many times can we disscuss the same bits of the same
film!!!!! but i like seeing how different people respond to things and
their views on things, even yours Arthur. It was beacause of the
banter on this board and the info placed here that made me come to the
Veags Con and had the wildest time ive ever had. Be a shame to lose
stuff like that beacause of a few dead people.

Clive

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 3, 2006, 2:06:50 PM2/3/06
to
UKEDDIE>OK there have been quite a few obits, but as long as they are not
UKEDDIE>just posted cos they died

Which far too many of them are. Did you see the list?

jefF - Midnight Madness

unread,
Feb 5, 2006, 10:06:06 PM2/5/06
to

UKEDDIE wrote:
> *puts on handy Eddie helmet*
>
> I see this newsgroup as a place where like minded people can get
> together and discuss what we have or havnt in common.
>
> If this just became a pure rocky info thread itd be pretty boring place
> to visit, how many times can we disscuss the same bits of the same
> film!!!!! but i like seeing how different people respond to things and
> their views on things, even yours Arthur. It was beacause of the
> banter on this board and the info placed here that made me come to the
> Veags Con and had the wildest time ive ever had. Be a shame to lose
> stuff like that beacause of a few dead people.

All due respect Clive, but obituaries aren't even discussion about
something we have in common, unless there is some underground movement
of RH themed obit parties and shows and conventions I'm not aware of. I
can go and post about politics, the war in Iraq, The NFL Super Bowl
(which Pittsburg just won), but that doesn't suddenly make that
general news something we now have in common. There's a difference
between things we truly have in common and simply copy/pasting common
knowledge/information - it helps to know the difference.

common man,
jefF

--
CRHAP Con - Chicago - July 27-30th, 2006
http://www.crhap.com/convention.htm
Midnight Madness; Music Box Theatre in Chicago & Official FermiLab Cast
Visit us on that web thingy @ http://www.midnightmadness.org
The Ultimate Rocky Horror Links Page @
http://www.midnightmadness.org/ultimatelink.htm
The Rocky Horror Archives http://www.rockyhorrorarchives.org

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 5, 2006, 10:49:35 PM2/5/06
to
Can we now PLEASE leave this "dead" horse to just stay "dead?"
Bev

jefF - Midnight Madness

unread,
Feb 5, 2006, 11:14:42 PM2/5/06
to
oldsp...@att.net wrote:
> Can we now PLEASE leave this "dead" horse to just stay "dead?"

Yeah, this "kicks the bucket" thread stopped being about Shelly a LONG
time ago! Respect for the dead people!!!

didn't see the obit for the horse,

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 6, 2006, 5:01:00 AM2/6/06
to
Bev>Can we now PLEASE leave this "dead" horse to just stay "dead?"

You tell me.

Crimson Ghost

unread,
Feb 6, 2006, 6:59:53 AM2/6/06
to
I think this thread is deader than Coretta Scott King stuck in a coalmine in
West Virginia.


Larry Viezel

unread,
Feb 6, 2006, 5:06:13 PM2/6/06
to
Holy Shit! Grandpa Munster died????

Larry.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 6, 2006, 6:11:07 PM2/6/06
to
Bev>Can we now PLEASE leave this "dead" horse to just stay "dead?"

I was going to, but ...

Funny, just two weeks ago you were defending the right of anybody to
post anything they wanted, and sneering at those of us who dared protest
over a topic that we'd been sick of for years. Now, suddenly, two weeks
later, when *YOU'RE* sick of the topic, it's OK for *YOU* to tell people to
stop?

I'm just wondering why *YOU'RE* so special that *YOU* can declare a
topic dead while James, Ruth, Becky, Larry, Kevin, Jeff, Mark, myself, et
al. aren't?

David M. Driskell

unread,
Feb 6, 2006, 8:25:02 PM2/6/06
to
Crimson Ghost wrote:
> I think this thread is deader than Coretta Scott King stuck in a coalmine in
> West Virginia.

YEEEEE HAAAWWWW!!!!

There there coal miners died because of a movie that was not even
playing in the state where they were living/working at the present
time...*shakes head*...just does not make sense!

With all the love there ever was...

David M. Driskell
http://mirrorofthesoul.com
*wondering how much crack Fred Phelps has smoked today*

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Crimson Ghost

unread,
Feb 7, 2006, 12:48:30 AM2/7/06
to

"Larry Viezel" <lar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139263573.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Holy Shit! Grandpa Munster died????
>
> Larry.
>

Yup.
But, there is no truth to the rumor that he's buried in "Dragula".
Barris Creations owns it.
I think he might still get enough votes to be elected mayor, however.


Douglas North

unread,
Feb 7, 2006, 1:33:56 PM2/7/06
to
<<You people are silly. That guy wrote two sentences and you've
stretched it to almost 50 posts.>>


Only numerically speaking!

<< Next time, try doing what most sane people do regarding things of no
interest to them, ignore it.>>

That would require self-restraint, maturity and, *gasp* a real life,
wouldn't it? Nah.... it's much easier to obsess over things and spend
weeks ranting about them, and also about how the people who *aren't*
obsessively ranting, "just don't get it" or "have no clue".

Besides, the whole thread is on-topic anyway:

Shelly Winters starred in "The Night of the Hunter", a film which is
said to have had an influence on RH.
Get out of that one.

Douglas North

unread,
Feb 7, 2006, 1:37:18 PM2/7/06
to
<<Another claim which has been made multiple times, without any basis in
fact or reality, is that the real problem, the bulk of these threads,
are the "three, maybe four people complaining (ad nauseum) about the
obituaries and not the hundreds of pointless "silent posts" and other
smarmy me-toos.>>

Yeah, and I haven't been proven right by this thread or anything...

;)

Douglas North

unread,
Feb 7, 2006, 1:43:02 PM2/7/06
to
<<People (like Douglas North) think they're being clever when they say
that this step is all that is necessary, so we should stop
complaining.>>

I never claimed it was clever. In fact, "Stunningly obvious" would be
more apt.


<< Maybe if the necrospammers actually did this we would stop
complaining; but until then, the mere hypothetical concept of a possible
solution does nobody any good.>>

That's the one point on which I agree completely with you; that if
people feel the need to post such things, they should label them clearly
and uniformly.
But they (apparently) won't, nor does it seem they will stop making the
obituary posts altogether.

So why punish yourself over someone else's mistake?

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 7, 2006, 10:33:35 PM2/7/06
to
I wasnt going to bother with this any more, but Arthur, you are
continually exhibiting a level of rudeness that warrants comment.
Do you spend your life sitting in front of a computer simply trying to
find things and people to bitch about, or do you have any sort of real
life?
You have beaten this horse into the ground so many ways from Sunday
that one would have to think you border on the obsessive, or
obsessively insane. Who really gives a rats ass any more about your
constant bitching about needless obituaries? You made your damn point,
now let it fucking go for chrissake!! Ive never made an obituary post,
yet you, having run out of valid reasons to bitch at Bill, have now
turned to bitching about me. Arthur, I can find reason to bitch about
you too. I find it frankly disgusting that you trot your son around in
RHPS costumes at his young age as if he were an exhibit. Children do
NOT belong at Rocky Horror, not even children of RHPS veterans.
Children should be treated as children, not exposed to the vagaries of
their parents. Give the kid a chance to make his own choices later in
life. In all likelihood you have guaranteed he will not become a RHPS
fan at any time in his life when he decides for himself. Richard
O'Brien has never paraded his kids around RHPS as infants.
And while Im at it, just how RHPS related is it to parade around a RHPS
convention dressed in a Star Trek costume?
For gods sake people, get a dose of your own damn medicine! And dont
worry about flaming me, I have no feelings and do not give a shit what
crap you throw at me anymore.
Arthur, you are an asshole.
Bev

jefF - Midnight Madness

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 11:41:55 AM2/8/06
to
oldsp...@att.net wrote:
> Who really gives a rats ass any more about your
> constant bitching about needless obituaries?

Actually, I do. While I would have done it a bit more tactfully and I
tend to let "moronities" like this go easier, ultimately _I_ am sick of
it too, and his point is so glaringly obvious, MOST people seem to have
gotten it so far, and reacted accordingly (i.e.. shut the fuck up about
something they supposedly didn't want to discuss anymore)...

> having run out of valid reasons to bitch at Bill,

No. Bill just stopped posting obits, and that was his complaint - I'm
sure if he did again, or anyone does again, this will come right back
up. Or would you just be happy if he continued to complain about Bill
- I'm not sure what your point ultimately here is.

> have now turned to bitching about me.

Sorry Bev, but you totally and completely set yourself up for this one
- you stuck the finger in the open wound again, and I consider your
post to be the "should've known better than to stir the turd" one -
YOU didn't let it rest. If it's a dead horse, it dies on its own
and doesn't need the Official Bev Declaration. Arthur's (first)
response was quick and to the point - "YOU tell ME" if it's done,
and obviously, you already essentially told us that it wasn't by your
jumping back into this. Not only that, but you also very conveniently
ignore his point - only a couple of short weeks ago you were defending
the right for people to post/discuss anything here they wanted to, and
now you're against it - just because it's Arthur? Which is it? Or is it
just people that piss you off that should be limited in what they can
say/post? You can't have it both ways on this one.

> Arthur, I can find reason to bitch about
> you too. I find it frankly disgusting that you trot your son around in
> RHPS costumes at his young age as if he were an exhibit. Children do
> NOT belong at Rocky Horror, not even children of RHPS veterans.
> Children should be treated as children, not exposed to the vagaries of
> their parents. Give the kid a chance to make his own choices later in
> life. In all likelihood you have guaranteed he will not become a RHPS
> fan at any time in his life when he decides for himself. Richard
> O'Brien has never paraded his kids around RHPS as infants.

Bev, you realize you are taking a lot more people to task than just
Arthur here? I am also of the opinion that RHPS isn't necessarily a
place for children, but I have yet to see anything regarding poor
parenting when Rocky parents expose their children to Rocky. It's not
like he's dressing him as Frank and having him perform bedroom scene.
So he dresses his kid in cute costumes, millions of parents do that.
Draven's little daughter dressed as Columbia is one of the cutest
damn things I've EVER seen.

And to bring up the obvious point, how old was your daughter before she
was exposed to Rocky? I'm not trying to push back here, or trying to
say that you dressed her up and started to bring her to shows when she
was 2 (maybe you did though, I don't know), but I'm genuinely
wondering how much of the choice to participate in Rocky was ultimately
hers too. I'm not even going to get into the hypocriticalness of
calling someone on parading their Rocky child around as if they were an
exhibit, because that comment really breaks the age border and it
really can apply to anyone that does it if you think about it.

> And while Im at it, just how RHPS related is it to parade around a RHPS
> convention dressed in a Star Trek costume?

Again, you continue to insult more than just Arthur here. I believe Ron
Maxwell would have something to say about these insults you've tossed
out here. Hundreds of us have worn costumes not themed to Rocky at
Rocky conventions - are THEY all "wrong" too? When were the Rocky
Horror Costume Wearing Requirements released, because I missed that
announcement? You know you can really apply this shot in the dark at
just about anything/anyone. What does your Union Jack dress have to do
with Rocky? Yet I've seen you in that far more often than Arthur in a
Star Trek uniform.

Bev, you're so flailing wildly here that it's almost embarrassing
to read, all because Arthur took you to task and called you on the
double standard of your stances when it comes to who you happen to be
dealing with and YOU weren't the one that could just simply let the
dead horse lie, and since you don't seem to have a good answer for
why your opinion changed and people suddenly can't post whatever they
want, now you come out with personal insults? C'mon Bev, for someone
that's older that most of us here, you really seem to be acting like
one of the biggest children now.

not trying to be insulting, I'm just sayin'...

Ron Maxwell

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 1:47:59 PM2/8/06
to

Ok the plan was for me to stay out of this but Bev you pissed me off!

First off I do not like obit posts myself but it doesn't bother one way or the other so I leave my comments to myself. What bothers me is the lack of respect for those that asked and repeatedly asked to stop the obit posts. This really isn't the place to go on and on AND on when people die. This is the RHPS group.

And if you want this to stop then STFU about it already. You have made at least 3 posts that I remember of telling Arthur or whomever to stop it. If you stop maybe they will to. You get how that works.

Now why you piss me off. HOW DARE YOU tell Arthur and Q and me for that matter how to raise our children. Not that we would listen to a nut like you but really. And who are you to judge you threw your kids into Rocky. Don't care if she was 2, 5 or 15 when you did it if she was not of the consenting age of 18 then you are just as guilty as you say we are. AND if Rocky is the place that we can be who we want to be and not be hung up on stereotypes why the hell is it bad????? Is it the sexual content?? What? And if it is lord I believe most sexual deviants were taught that sex is a bad thing which is why they lash out as an adult. I don't want to hide sex from my kid or RH. Why would I? AND what's the harm in parading him in his little Brad Tux and custom made rain jacket (By Jill and Missy, you guys are awesome and he was a little star at the con) to attend a con or 2. He was great at his first viewing of Rocky at 3MO. Now at almost 3YO he needs his sleep. So of course he stays home to sleep but once he is old enough to stay up right back there!! Also, what if we push him into Rocky? The child is going to hate us no matter what we do. That’s how kids are they usually want to do the exact opposite of what you want them to do. Maybe if we keep him away and hide it he would find it on his own. Yeah maybe but who knows really and well we are not about that. William will love Rocky or not it will not be because we push him into it. When the boy says “no I don’t like it” then it will be done and over with. Until he can say that and he is still happy and smiling I put him in whatever getup Ron and I choose. You are way way out of line!!!

And every con I've been to has a lets dress as something else party. As well as people dress in other things at shows too? You are just attacking everything aren't you? Leave the star trek uniform wearing people alone lady!!!!


In any case I think you have said enough. It's one thing to not like something on a news group it's another to judge ones personal life!!

Love and kissed
Hilary Maxwell

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 3:00:53 PM2/8/06
to
I knew I was gonna get flak for that post. I really dont care. I only
looked at the responses out of curiousity.
To answer the accusations at me, Kasey was 15 when she attended her
first convention. She was 15 when she went to the theater to see it the
first time. Both were at HER insistance. You can probably make a case
that it was wrong of me to go to RHPS when I was pregnant with her,
whatever. I stand by my belief that its just wrong for infants to be at
RHPS, hell its wrong to take infants to a movie theater period!! Think
about the other patrons for a moment. How easy is it to lose your
inhibitions around babies or small children? Wait, given RHPS people,
thats a stupid question, but in my opinion, its wrong!
One night at my show, back in the mid-90s, a cast member brought her
newborn in a carrier. She plopped the kid down on the sidewalk, and
both she and her boyfriend wandered off to socialise. Leaving the kid
to fend for herself, at all of three weeks old in a carrier on the
sidewalk in January!!! You think this is right? And when I called her
out on it, told her to go home, she bitched me out for overstepping my
boundaries. So I kicked her off cast. And I know I did the right thing.
Anyone care to challenge my decision? Coz all I could think of was this
baby being stepped on, or knocked over by some drunken/stoned audience
member, or god forbid kidnapped!
This thread started with a very rude and insulting comment; no, demand,
by Arthur, and it devolved into a slashing match. It could have been
handled much more tactfully. You are all supposed to be friends, on the
same side. This just proves a very disturbing point to me.
Like I said, I have reached the point where I dont care.
Bev

MIBecky

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 3:13:23 PM2/8/06
to
If you don't care, why do you respond? Do you only like drama when
you're not involved?

I am also very put off by your advice to parents, and how they raise
their kids. You simply have no right. There was no neglect at CDR
with the few children who were there. There were no instances of
parents leaving their kids unattended. AFAIK, Dravens daughter, and
Hilary and Ron's son had a BLAST. No child will tapdance on command
with a huge grin on her face if she's not having fun. And I've never
seen a cuter Brad than little Mr. Maxwell. Cons are not your domain
unless you're throwing them, they are not your CAST. Even if you are
throwing them, you can't expect to dictate everyones behaviour at
them. We all have our opinions, but that doesn't mean the rest of the
world is entitled to them, or should just take them because we decide
to voice them. Ron, Hilary and Draven paid their own way to our con.
They paid their childrens way to our con. They had fun. They were not
disruptive. They certainly don't deserve this sort of personal,
unsolicited flame from you or anyone else.

We don't normally allow infants at our show, only because the volume
level inside the theater can be harmful to newborn ears. Other than
that, when people bring their 4 year olds to our show (and that does
happen occasionally), that's their business so long as they're always
in contact with their child. I may not like it, and I certainly don't
feel it's appropriate, but I am no ones mom. I am certainly not that
childs parent, I have no right to pass judgement just like you have no
right to pass judgement.

Others are expected to listen to your responses, but you flat-out state
you don't care what their replies are. Thanks for your respect for
this community and the adults who live in it.

I consider you a friend, someone I can be honest with. But if you
don't care to hear honesty, that kinda puts a bit of a monkeywrench in
my feelings for you. If others opinions aren't valid to you, why
should yours be valid to us? If you can sling mud and don't expect it
to be thrown back at you, how should we feel?

MIBecky

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 4:48:58 PM2/8/06
to
Bev>I wasnt going to bother with this any more, but Arthur, you are
Bev>continually exhibiting a level of rudeness that warrants comment.

I had actually regretted posting that after I did so, for what it's
worth; not because I thought my point was incorrect (that you turned around
and did precisely what you'd just finished criticizing the rest of us for
doing, for daring to tell people to stop posting about a topic which we
were sick of) but because I figured I really had been too harsh. Be that
as it may.

Bev>Do you spend your life sitting in front of a computer simply trying
Bev>to find things and people to bitch about, or do you have any sort of
Bev>real life?

There are 168 hours in a week; and in the average week I don't even
think about Rocky Horror (much less post on the newsgroup) for more than 2%
of that time. Yes, I have a life outside of this newsgroup; and that's
precisely where I keep it.


"I have a non-Rocky life too, and like Arthur, I live it in non-Rocky

places." -Ruth Fink-Winter.

Bev>Ive never made an obituary post, yet you, having run out of valid
Bev>reasons to bitch at Bill, have now turned to bitching about me.

You were the one who inserted yourself into this thread ("What the
fuck is the matter with you Arthur??????") I did not just jump on you at
random; everything I've said to you, harsh or not, was in response to
something which you had posted first. If you jump into a fight, swinging
your fists, you have no right to complain if you get hit back.

Bev>Arthur, I can find reason to bitch about you too.

I'm sure you can. Am I allowed to respond?

Bev>I find it frankly disgusting that you trot your son around in RHPS
Bev>costumes at his young age as if he were an exhibit.

Let's see; you already tried to judge my entire life from the
miniscule fraction of it I spend on the newsgroup; now you're planning to
extrapolate on my parenting based on a single weekend in Vegas.

Bev>Children do NOT belong at Rocky Horror, not even children of RHPS
Bev>veterans.

I hope you're aware that you are now stomping on quite a few more feet
than just mine, if you think every parent who's brought their child to
Rocky and/or dressed them in a Rocky costume is "frankly disgusting".
That's quite a long list of people you're insulting; in fact, you're now
insulting far more people than I've insulted in this thread.
Guess that means I have to turn the Asshole Troll crown over to you.

Bev>Children should be treated as children, not exposed to the vagaries
Bev>of their parents. Give the kid a chance to make his own choices
Bev>later in life.

As much as I value your childrearing advice, in the hopes that my
child can someday also date a cop killer, this is really none of your
business. Are you saying that anyone who has a child should cease any and
all participation in Rocky Horror until their child is 18? Are you saying
that we should ditch our child with someone else when we go out?
Richard had a great time in Vegas. Beyond all the attention he got
from friends at the con (and babies love attention), we took him all over
the city. He loves animals (we take him to zoos frequently, and even
bought memberships in the Balitmore Zoo after he was born) so we took him
to see Siegfried and Roy's menagerie. He was also amused by Madame
Tussaud's wax figures, and so on.
Rocky Horror is not the only place we bring him, nor even the most
frequent (we're on semi-hiatus from our cast; the last time I performed was
at the Christmas show, and the last time we attended was only because Scott
McDee was in town and I thought he'd enjoy going). Every weekend we take
Richard somewhere; zoos, children's museums, playing with other children,
and so on.

Bev>In all likelihood you have guaranteed he will not become a RHPS fan
Bev>at any time in his life when he decides for himself.

Do you honestly think I care? That it will be a tragedy if he doesn't
like RHPS when he grows up? It's just a freaking movie, after all. It's
up to him decide what he likes; it's our job as parents to present him with
the options.

Bev>Richard O'Brien has never paraded his kids around RHPS as infants.

Good for him. I don't tell him how to raise his children, and he
doesn't tell me how to raise mine.

Bev>And while Im at it,

Because you haven't insulted nearly enough other people yet...

Bev>just how RHPS related is it to parade around a RHPS convention
Bev>dressed in a Star Trek costume?

Actually, in Vegas, we were in Star Trek costumes at the Star Trek
Experience in the Las Vegas Hilton, not in the convention hall itself. But
that's neither here nor there; no need to confuse you with facts.
But, on a more general note, why the fuck shouldn't someone wear
whatever costumes they want to a Rocky Horror convention (or, indeed, a
showing of the movie)? Concepts like "don't dream it, be it" ring hollow
when hundreds of people are required to dress as the same ten characters;
individuality, self-expression, and so forth be damned. If someone wants
to dress as a storm trooper, then it's far more in the spirit of Rocky
Horror to let them than to tell them that they must conform and that no
divergence from the norm is allowed.

Is High Empress Bev Garrish now passing her judgement on the hundreds,
if not thousands, of people who've attended Rockycons dressed as something
other than Rocky Horror characters? If so, then why don't you tell me just
how RHPS related is it to parade around a RHPS convention dressed as a
geriatric SpiceGirl, pre-"Spiceworld"? Or is this yet another thing which
is only wrong when other people do it, butjust fine for Bev Garrish?

Bev>And dont worry about flaming me,

Oh no, I suppose I'm expected to just sit back and read your BS
without response.

Keep in mind that (1) I only responded to your newsgroup posts, I
didn't look for excuses to be a bitch; and (2) you attacked me for calling
you a hypocrite - and yet with your attack on every Rocky Horror parent
(except yourself) and person who's worn a non-Rocky costume to a con
(except yourself), all you've done is prove my point in spades.

Bev>I have no feelings and do not give a shit what crap you throw at me
Bev>anymore.

You keep saying that, but you keep reading and responding.

Let me make it easy for you and show you how it's done. When I say
that you have nothing more of interest to say to me, I mean it.

*plonk*

Now let's see, I can't wait to read what Ron Maxwell had to say.

Larry Viezel

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 5:23:22 PM2/8/06
to
Everyone else's responses summed it up pretty well.

I gotta add one comment - is it just me or does this post just carry
the tone of "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!".

I stand and do one of those cliche' slow-to-fast movie applause claps
for Arthur's response. It was well said.

Larry.

Ron Maxwell

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 6:36:06 PM2/8/06
to
Hay Becky thanks for the vote of confidence as a parent : ) I wonder sometimes but not because I drag him to Rocky cons ; )

And for the record not only did we pay our way to be there we brought our own baby sitters to watch him so we could have fun and everyone else could have fun when it got to late and he got to cranky. Oh and also for the record the whole Maxwell clan had a lot of fun at your con and in Vegas.

Love and kisses,
Hilary Maxwell

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 8, 2006, 6:52:47 PM2/8/06
to
<<You people are silly. That guy wrote two sentences and you've
stretched it to almost 50 posts.>>

Douglas North (Pample...@webtv.net) wrote:
DN>Only numerically speaking!

Yep, in all those 1300 death posts, there were only a grand total of
two lines. Imagine that.

*plonk*

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 9, 2006, 1:37:35 PM2/9/06
to
I am not critisizing 99.9% of any of your parenting skills. I simply do
not approve of small children at RHPS, be it a con or a show. I dont
find babies in costumes cute, and abhore what Anne Geddes does to them
in the so-called name of "art." Why Im not allowed an opinion on this
is beyond me. I mean, the most outspoken, critical group of people Ive
ever met, yet Bev Gerrish is not allowed an opinion. And yes, I do
expect to hear opinions back. Thats what this board is about after all.
Im not cringing from speaking my mind, I hope no one else does either.
Re: the So-called Spice Girls costume at the Denver con. It was not a
Spice Girls costume. It was a joke on my own image within my cast as
the character OldSpice. A parody, a take-the-piss-out-of-myself thing.
Dont take it so seriously!
Re: Kasey dating one of the murderous Stovall twins: not something I
approved of even at the time, which was years prior to their rampage.
As you will discover, even the best of parents cannot control
everything. And I never claimed to be the best of parents.
My point here, if there really is any more reason to have one, is that
I dont approve of children at Rocky. Take your kids if you want, I
certainly cannot stop you. But I think its wrong. And wear what you
want at a con, but then dont get so hypocritical about non-RHPS topics
discussed on a RHPS board.
By the way, I havent attended a con in years, so why are you defending
yourselves at the ones I never went to and saw anything? Im referring
to the posts made here, where pictures of your children in costumes are
linked, and the times you speak of taking your babies to Rocky.
But I guess it all comes down to the fact that its only acceptable for
"certain people" to post here. Those who have retired from all active
participation but who still wish to remain informed of RHPS activities
should just lurk and keep their mouths shut. Maybe thats why there are
so few people here anymore.
Bev

Douglas North

unread,
Feb 9, 2006, 3:02:54 PM2/9/06
to
<<Yep, in all those 1300 death posts, there were only a grand total of
two lines. Imagine that. >>

Here's a hint: when reading the English language, there is such a thing
as "context", which is a part of speech preceeding or following a word
or passage that affects its significance. Learn to recognise it.


<<          *plonk* >>

I suppose this is my cue to be upset over the fact that you are
incapable of arguing a point without "plonking", or at the very least,
calling those who disagree with you or fail to share your outrage,
"ignorant".

In other words, you can dish it out, but you sure as hell can't take it
(which is a little disappointing, considering your obvious intelligence
and way with words). And for the record, I never insulted anyone,
impugned anyone's child-raising skills, nor did I dismiss the opinions
of those who RESPECTFULLY and RATIONALLY, or at least with some degree
of humor, expressed their dislike for obiituary posts (Ruth, James,
Larry, jefF etc.).

Interestingly, for someone who derided Randy Brown for "only" posting
"obituary shit"... ALL of your recent posts of memory (besides those
relating to Rocky Wikipedia), even those in unrelated threads, have been
obituary related. Imagine that.


Basically it was your infantile and insulting reaction to those who
disagreed with you that made me feel the need to comment in the first
place. Maybe that was a mistake on my part. But since, apparently, you
won't be reading this, I guess I will forever remain, in your mind, an
ignorant apologist for PC-posturing obituary whores.

I can live with that. Incidentally, I do respect, nay *like* you (as
much as one can like someone they've never met), and have fond memories
of chatting with you in the Zen Room all those years ago, and swapping
quotes from our favorite Brit-Coms.

But if you want nothing more to do with me, I certainly won't lose any
sleep over it.

Take care,
DN

Myk

unread,
Feb 9, 2006, 5:53:13 PM2/9/06
to
To bring this back to a point from the movie...

"Don't get hot and flustered...."

Myk "You're a Hot Dog! But, you'd better not try to hurt her! Frank N.
Furter!" Ciapusci

James

unread,
Feb 9, 2006, 9:32:13 PM2/9/06
to
Has anyone else noticed the irony that neither Bill nor Randy have
actually contributed to this thread since January 23rd?

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 9, 2006, 9:51:21 PM2/9/06
to
James>Has anyone else noticed the irony that neither Bill nor Randy have
James>actually contributed to this thread since January 23rd?

Not since I plonked 'em, no.

370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 10, 2006, 2:19:11 AM2/10/06
to
RIP - Franklin Cover

Feb 10, 12:43 AM (ET)


LOS ANGELES (AP) - Franklin Cover, who became a familiar face as George and
Louise Jefferson's white neighbor in the long-running TV sitcom "The
Jeffersons," has died, his publicist said Thursday. He was 77.

Cover died of pneumonia Sunday at the Lillian Booth Actor's Fund of America
home in Englewood, N.J., said publicist Dale Olson. He had been living at
the home since December 2005 while recuperating from a heart condition.

In his nearly six decades in show business, Cover made numerous appearances
on television shows, including "The Jackie Gleason Show,""All in the
Family,""Who's the Boss?""Will & Grace,""Living Single,""Mad About You" and
"ER."

He began his career on the stage, appearing in Shakespeare's "Hamlet" and
"Henry IV," and later in numerous Broadway productions, including "Any
Wednesday", "Wild Honey and "Born Yesterday."

But Cover was best known for his role as Tom Willis, who was in an
interracial marriage with a black woman, in "The Jeffersons."

He and his wife lived in the same "deluxe apartment building" that Sherman
Hemsley moved his family to after making money in the dry-cleaning business.
There, Cover often played a comic foil to Hemsley's blustering, opinionated
black businessman. The show ran from 1975 to 1985.

Cover also appeared in several films, including "The Great Gatsby,""The
Stepford Wives" and "Wall Street."

He is survived by his widow, Mary, a son and a daughter.
-----------------------------------

Franklin was in "Mad About You" as was Richard Kind.

Richard Kind was in "Spin City" as was Barry Bostwick.

Barry Bostwick was in "RHPS", but I forget who he played.

Some asshole, I think...

------------------------------------

Now the circle is complete.

MIBecky

unread,
Feb 10, 2006, 2:10:24 PM2/10/06
to

370HSSV-0773H wrote:
> RIP - Franklin Cover
>
> Feb 10, 12:43 AM (ET)
>

Who are you? Anonymous posts are not respected here. Please claim
them.

Are we actually playing the "10 Degrees of RHPS" game with obits, to
justify them? If so... I'm out of here.

MIBecky

Douglas North

unread,
Feb 10, 2006, 5:54:56 PM2/10/06
to
<<Has anyone else noticed the irony that neither Bill nor Randy have
actually contributed to this thread since January 23rd?>>


Yes. One has to wonder, especially contrasting the number of obituary
posts in the last month (two, if you include the anonymous guy/gal) vs.
the number of anti-obitiuary posts (hovering around 80+, including those
invading unrelated threads saying, "This is bullshit, but at least its
better than that obituary shit!"), how certain people can complain about
anyone else "cluttering" anything.

But nobody ever said RH people were immune from hypocrisy.

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 10, 2006, 6:58:16 PM2/10/06
to
370HSSV-0773H wrote...

* >|NO7d *

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 10, 2006, 6:58:49 PM2/10/06
to
MIBecky>Are we actually playing the "10 Degrees of RHPS" game with obits,
MIBecky>to justify them?

Nothing new there, either.

MIBecky>If so... I'm out of here.

370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 11, 2006, 12:27:33 AM2/11/06
to

"MIBecky" <mima...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139598624.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Well, considering that it's a death thread, that had gone into the realm of
insulting the way people care for their kids, I was simply unhijacking the
thread.
I was unaware that rudeness was part of the "Rocky Horror" lifestyle.
Excuse me for trying to get the thread back.
And if Arthur Levesque feels that "* >|NO7d *" is an appropriate answer,
then fine.
I didn't post that Richard O'Brian was Jim Stienman, like lilysincere, or
try to sell "RHPS" items that I bootlegged, like RHPSAdam.
If this is the way you people respond to newbies, no wonder more people
aren't into it.


MIBecky

unread,
Feb 11, 2006, 12:57:53 AM2/11/06
to
You should sign your posts. That's part of my 'rudeness' - a response
to your 'rudeness'. Part of RHPS IS insulting people. Doesn't have to
be a part of the NG, however. I'll trade ya - your name, and my return
to a polite tone. All I really asked was that you claim your posts
(which you again failed to do).

As to this thread, it was never dead. It kept getting kickstarted. 10
Degrees of Rocky Horror was part of the complaint early on.

MIBecky

Arthur Levesque

unread,
Feb 11, 2006, 5:14:48 AM2/11/06
to
Because MIBecky quoted you, so I saw your comment:

>370HSSV-0773H wrote:
>> And if Arthur Levesque feels that "* >|NO7d *" is an appropriate answer,
>> then fine.

People tell me that if I do not like these death posts, I should
simply not read them. Since I cannot killfile the posts (no one has the
common courtesy required to create and use a consistent label), I have no
choice but to killfile the posters. Naturally, I expect people to complain
about that, too.

And I thought that "* >|NO7d *" was a particularly appropriate answer
for someone who calls themself "370HSSV-0773H".

BertSch...@aol.com

unread,
Feb 13, 2006, 4:25:44 AM2/13/06
to

< I have no choice but to killfile the posters. Naturally, I expect
people to complain about that, too>

I don't see why anyone would complain. If one person does not want to
see what another person posts and killfiles them, I don't see where
this is a problem for either side. What's to complain about? Both sides
win.

Bill " tips his hat to Douglas " Brennan

jefF - Midnight Madness

unread,
Feb 13, 2006, 12:18:17 PM2/13/06
to
370HSSV-0773H wrote:

> I didn't post that Richard O'Brian was Jim Stienman, like lilysincere, or
> try to sell "RHPS" items that I bootlegged, like RHPSAdam.
> If this is the way you people respond to newbies, no wonder more people
> aren't into it.

Ummmmm, do you really want to be dropped into that classification?
That's really a piss poor analogy to make, because while you haven't
"done" anything as asinine as that, you're really not a whole lot
better with this 'tude you've taken right off the bat and your apparent
unwillingness to put a RL person behind it. Frankly, I have the
balls/boobs to sign my own name to my posts and am willing to stand
behind my asshole-ness, all we're asking is that you do the same lest
you be stuck into the anonymous coward
we-don't-give-a-shit-what-you-say category really quick. So what's it
going to be, are you a self righteous thread hijacking anonymous coward
that complains when people are mean to him/her as if it's somehow our
fault for calling you out on what we see, or are you a real person
that's prepared to actually stand by your opinion and actions? We're
big boys and girls - we can take the criticism when it's actually
dished out by someone we can respect, and telling us who you are is
step one to that end.

and yes, I have the balls AND the boobs ;-P,

370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 10:37:55 AM2/19/06
to

"MIBecky" <mima...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139637473....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> You should sign your posts. That's part of my 'rudeness' - a response
> to your 'rudeness'. Part of RHPS IS insulting people. Doesn't have to
> be a part of the NG, however. I'll trade ya - your name, and my return
> to a polite tone. All I really asked was that you claim your posts
> (which you again failed to do).
>
> As to this thread, it was never dead. It kept getting kickstarted. 10
> Degrees of Rocky Horror was part of the complaint early on.
>
> MIBecky

Hmm...
I'm rude because I don't sign my posts.
But, you tell me that part of the RHPS life is being rude.
But, if I'm rude, it's not allowed.
But if you are rude, it's perfectly acceptable.
You asked me to claim my posts.
Every newsreader shows you the name of the poster.
So claiming my posts is redundant.
Yet, there are others who don't 'claim' their posts, yet I'm the person that
you singled out.
Hmm...

Sean Twomey

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 1:00:27 PM2/19/06
to
"370HSSV-0773H" <370HSS...@2GOOD2B4GOTN.COM> wrote

> Yet, there are others who don't 'claim' their posts, yet I'm the person
that
> you singled out.


You've said yourself that you're new here... So you probably don't
know what sort of shit you've stepped in. See, everybody here *knows* who
the other people are... A good many of us know each other *off* the net, as
well as here.We may not all sign our real names to every one of our posts,
but we know the people behind them. Some of us may choose to go by different
names here on the group, but we'll jump up and fire off our name, cast, and
location like a soldier with his name/rank/serial number if you ask us
politely. We don't generally brag about our accomplishments, but we
certainly don't have a problem claiming them. In fact a fair number of the
people on this group can claim to have had a pretty big hand in making Rocky
Horror what it is today. It's the same way with our opinions and views.
Given the fairly long history of this newsgroup and the amount of trolls and
idiots that have darkened our doorstep over the years, when someone we don't
recognize comes in and the first post they make is in a very volatile
thread, without any attempt to identify themselves as a person rather than
an internet name, we automatically see that individual as suspect, and most
likely just here to stir up shit... Do you see how it could be seen as
someone using a cover name to post here to escape whatever heat they may
incur by posting on such an incendiary topic, or a troll trying to pour
gasoline on an already lit fire? We just prefer to know who's playing in our
sandbox. :-)
Given that you're new to this group, you may not have realized how long
this topic has been an issue here, so, although the humor and wit of it
would definitely have been appreciated in other circumstances, it was
something of an accidental misjudgement on your part to jump in with both
feet on this particular thread. Although Becky's initial request for some
sort of identification and her subsequent directness may seen a bit rude to
you as a newcomer here, it's because you were most likely unaware of the
rather tense existing circumstances within the context of which it should be
viewed... Although you may see it as an attack, and feel justified in taking
a defensive position, it's not meant as such. She really is being quite
literal when she says that when you tell us who you are, we'll be more
polite to you - a simple introduction will suffice to diffuse the escalation
of this unnecessary drama.
It's a well-known fact that the first thing two superheroes do upon meeting
for the first time is try to beat the shit out of each other. Now that we've
gotten that out of the way, let's shake hands, introduce ourselves ("Hi, I'm
xxx from xxxx"), and be friends...

ST
(formerly of the Rhode
Island cast)

MIBecky

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 5:01:57 PM2/19/06
to
I use Google as a reader. It doesn't show me the real name of any
poster. Google sucks. :P

I didn't intend to be rude to you. I don't think that asking for your
name is rude at all. In fact, I think it's fair and polite to want to
know the name of someone who has been posting for a bit and has become
part of the group. I like addressing people by name, or nickname if
their real name is known in general to this online community when I
write to them or about them on the NG. I am direct sometimes, and
people sometimes put a rude tone on that directness. I understand and
accept that. Hence my prolific use of 'smileys'. :P I meant no insult
to you at all. I speak my mind, come hell or high water. Usually
"Hell" is faster than "High Water" on thisahere Newsgroup as I know
you've noticed. Oh, yeah, you can surely tell when I DO mean to insult
people. I expect my friends to be honest and direct.

Please don't lump yourself in with the trolls. You're not a troll.
You have contributed positively, intelligently and at times amusingly
to our discussions. Anonymity doesn't make you a troll, it just makes
you... anonymous. ;)

As to the rest of it, Sean said it all. You have been a healthy
contributor here. I'd like to know who to buy a drink for at a con,
that's all. Izzat cool?

MIBecky

lilysincere

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 7:48:47 PM2/19/06
to
MIBecky wrote:
"Part of RHPS IS insulting people."

Just because a man sitting in some balcony of a movie theatre decided
he'd rather insult rather than support the characters on the screen,
does not define Rocky Horror as an insult fest, even if he had a fancy
name for it, "counter-point dialogue". I would have hoped that the
balance could have been stricken, to support the story, to make it
stronger, make it better, than tear down the elements inside. I tend
to err on the side of building. Some, like to demolish. So, perhaps
RHPS is to the extent MIBecky says it is, about insulting people, but,
how does it really feel, if for the heck of it, just to be different,
you decided to find the most positive qualities of the scenes and the
characters? And, call out to that? For example: Susan Sarandon had
pneumonia during the filming, and it was raining on her. Get an
umbrella, don't catch yourself a cold? Is there a callout about that?
Or is it, just, get an umbrella, bitch? (Like it was originally). I'm
asking, because I am not looking at the script. I know, "bitch" sounds
more funny. But, what could also be funny, is that she already had the
pneumonia, so it is a redundancy of the fact at the production. I'm not
an expert on funny. I would not have come up with any of it, mind you,
because I'm not geared that way. I'm funny in my own ways.

Lily Sincere
Stripping Illusion
http://lilysincere.infopace.net

Sean Twomey

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 8:43:09 PM2/19/06
to

"lilysincere" <ladyofe...@shesatotalyahoo.com> wrote

<much "excess" snipped crap>

> I'm funny in my own ways.

BWAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
( The only true thing she's said so far....) :-)


Lily Sincere (-ly cracked)
Flipping Delusional
http://lilysincere.uselessinfo-outerspace.net
>

ST


370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 9:41:22 PM2/19/06
to


"Sean Twomey" <seant...@myeastern.com> wrote in message
news:EdKdnR_9ZNizL2Xe...@myeastern.com...


> "370HSSV-0773H" <370HSS...@2GOOD2B4GOTN.COM> wrote
>
> > Yet, there are others who don't 'claim' their posts, yet I'm the person
> that
> > you singled out.
>
>
> You've said yourself that you're new here... So you probably don't
> know what sort of shit you've stepped in. See, everybody here *knows* who
> the other people are... A good many of us know each other *off* the net,
as
> well as here.

Understood.

We may not all sign our real names to every one of our posts,
> but we know the people behind them. Some of us may choose to go by
different
> names here on the group, but we'll jump up and fire off our name, cast,
and
> location like a soldier with his name/rank/serial number if you ask us
> politely.

I was never in a cast, simply because I'm as agile as a pregnant elephant.

We don't generally brag about our accomplishments, but we
> certainly don't have a problem claiming them. In fact a fair number of the
> people on this group can claim to have had a pretty big hand in making
Rocky
> Horror what it is today. It's the same way with our opinions and views.
> Given the fairly long history of this newsgroup and the amount of trolls
and
> idiots that have darkened our doorstep over the years, when someone we
don't
> recognize comes in and the first post they make is in a very volatile
> thread, without any attempt to identify themselves as a person rather than
> an internet name, we automatically see that individual as suspect, and
most
> likely just here to stir up shit... Do you see how it could be seen as
> someone using a cover name to post here to escape whatever heat they may
> incur by posting on such an incendiary topic, or a troll trying to pour
> gasoline on an already lit fire? We just prefer to know who's playing in
our
> sandbox. :-)

It wasn't my intent to add fuel to the fire.
My first post in this NG was information as to the IP address of the
psychonutjump.

> Given that you're new to this group, you may not have realized how long
> this topic has been an issue here, so, although the humor and wit of it
> would definitely have been appreciated in other circumstances, it was
> something of an accidental misjudgement on your part to jump in with both
> feet on this particular thread.

Once more, understood.

Although Becky's initial request for some
> sort of identification and her subsequent directness may seen a bit rude
to
> you as a newcomer here, it's because you were most likely unaware of the
> rather tense existing circumstances within the context of which it should
be
> viewed... Although you may see it as an attack, and feel justified in
taking
> a defensive position, it's not meant as such. She really is being quite
> literal when she says that when you tell us who you are, we'll be more
> polite to you - a simple introduction will suffice to diffuse the
escalation
> of this unnecessary drama.

Again, understood.

> It's a well-known fact that the first thing two superheroes do upon
meeting
> for the first time is try to beat the shit out of each other. Now that
we've
> gotten that out of the way, let's shake hands, introduce ourselves ("Hi,
I'm
> xxx from xxxx"), and be friends...
>
> ST
> (formerly of the
Rhode Island cast)

I'm not Sparticus.
I'm Gene Schnider.
From NYC.


370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 9:46:39 PM2/19/06
to

"MIBecky" <mima...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1140383396.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


> I use Google as a reader. It doesn't show me the real name of any
> poster. Google sucks. :P

Google is a vacuum?

> I didn't intend to be rude to you. I don't think that asking for your
> name is rude at all. In fact, I think it's fair and polite to want to
> know the name of someone who has been posting for a bit and has become
> part of the group. I like addressing people by name, or nickname if
> their real name is known in general to this online community when I
> write to them or about them on the NG. I am direct sometimes, and
> people sometimes put a rude tone on that directness. I understand and
> accept that. Hence my prolific use of 'smileys'. :P I meant no insult
> to you at all. I speak my mind, come hell or high water. Usually
> "Hell" is faster than "High Water" on thisahere Newsgroup as I know
> you've noticed. Oh, yeah, you can surely tell when I DO mean to insult
> people. I expect my friends to be honest and direct.

Maybe I was a bit too quick to rush to judgement.
I'm a little paranoid with people face-to-face, so NGs are the way I usually
contact others.

> Please don't lump yourself in with the trolls. You're not a troll.
> You have contributed positively, intelligently and at times amusingly
> to our discussions. Anonymity doesn't make you a troll, it just makes
> you... anonymous. ;)

In the words of Elvis - Thankyathankyaverymuch...

> As to the rest of it, Sean said it all. You have been a healthy
> contributor here. I'd like to know who to buy a drink for at a con,
> that's all. Izzat cool?
>
> MIBecky
>

That's cool. If I'm ever at a con, I'll try to find you.


--
Gene Schnider
I'm the reason God make Oklahoma.

370HSSV-0773H

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 9:48:10 PM2/19/06
to


"lilysincere" <ladyof...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1140396527....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

I'm funny in my own ways.

> Lily Sincere
> Stripping Illusion
> http://lilysincere.infopace.net

Funny how? Funny like a clown?

Sean Twomey

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 10:10:24 PM2/19/06
to
Well, dammit, pleased ta meet ya, Gene... :-) Welcome to the little corner
of Satan's asshole we call the newsgroup... :-)

ST

P.S. - Being agile as a pregnant elephant is one of the primary
qualifications for playing Eddie... ;-)


"370HSSV-0773H" <370HSS...@2GOOD2B4GOTN.COM> wrote> I'm not Sparticus.

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 10:15:25 PM2/19/06
to
Susan you are not wanted on this NG in general, so WHY do you now
insert yourself into threads that you did not start? Just get gone my
dear and leave us to our rudeness in peace.
Bev

oldsp...@att.net

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 10:17:07 PM2/19/06
to
Susan you are not wanted on this newsgroup in general, so WHY do you
now insert yourself into threads that are not of your own creation?
Just go away and leave us to our rudeness in peace.
Bev

Crimson Ghost

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 10:35:37 PM2/19/06
to

"Sean Twomey" <seant...@myeastern.com> wrote in message
news:kKadna3d4Km...@myeastern.com...

> Well, dammit, pleased ta meet ya, Gene... :-) Welcome to the little
corner
> of Satan's asshole we call the newsgroup... :-)
>

Well, that explains the smell.

lilysincere

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 11:30:10 PM2/19/06
to

I don't know, Bev, maybe its because I want to see how far rejection
can be taken in an acceptance society. How many arbitrary reasons can
you make to reject me and my posts out of hand? I can't find it now,
and don't particularly make it my mission to find it, but I know you
have written yourself of acceptance in the Rocky community. Is that,
acceptance based on conformance to the established standards? Is it
acceptance based on the absence of disagreements, superior experience
and information which contradicts Rocky Godz, or is it acceptance based
on the ability to know the words and sing along? What is the
acceptance based on? And, is it just because you don't like what I
represent, that outs me as an individual despite my contributions? BTW,
it takes more than dislike to shoo me away; nobody is liked by
everybody. Interesting, when the ones who dislike are so passionate to
be the only courageous voices. Dislike, reject, and control. Nice
sub-culture you have going. I'm not new to sub-culture, and I am part
of your "family". Perhaps not the favored one setting the table at
dinnertime. But when the "family" was just starting, if not for me, it
would have closed before it got nationwide. I'm not gloating; I don't
need the glory, and know I don't have it. I can't discuss costumes and
won't try; I can't discuss casts and won't try. But, where my caring
of Rocky Horror is concerned, I'll contribute in the open forum with
you. And you can ignore me. Or, is that too easy to do?

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