OT: Beware OneTel/Talk-Talk users
Phil Morris
provider:
I have used OneTel for years for cheaper phone calls and a year or so
ago I switched my line rental to them as well which gave me free evening
and weekend calls due to being a British Gas customer. No problems,
happy with the service.
Anyway, my line has been developing a crackling sound for a week or 2
and it was so bad yesterday that I reported a fault on the line. BT
won't support the line because it is managed by OneTel so I called
OneTel (0845 number) and spent an interesting 10 minutes trying to
convince an Indian call-centre drone that I had already plugged a number
of phones into the master socket with the same result. He finally
accepted that there must be a fault between my house and the exchange.
The crunch came when he said "You will be charged between 60GBP & 108GBP
for the engineer's work". Trying very hard to be calm and assuming he
had mis-read his script, I explained that the fault was not with my
equipment but with BT's to no avail as he insisted that OneTel/Talk-Talk
would be charged by BT and the costs would be passed on to me.
Called BT to re-join, sent snotty email to OneTel and glad to see the
back of them.
Received an email from OneTel this morning confirming that repairs are
charged to customers, no matter who's fault they are so beware.
I wonder how many other companies who take over your BT line also have
the same policy?
--
Phil Morris
Bargains
Has BT fixed the fault? If so, was there a charge?
--
http://www.freeinformationcentre.co.uk/html/bargains_in_the_uk.html
Peter Crosland
Assuming the fault is with the line from the OP's property he should report
Onetel to OFCOM.
--
Peter Crosland
Trust No One®
"Bargains" <any...@e-mail.net> wrote in message
news:45a0...@212.67.96.135...
>
> Has BT fixed the fault? If so, was there a charge?
>
The OP mentioned that the fault relates to the master socket however
extensions are a different matter.
I had a problem with an extension into one of my bedrooms. The extension was
suppled and cabled (internally through the walls) by BT.
Eventually the call quality started to crackle very badly and soon
afterwards the extension socket went totally dead.
I rang BT and was informed that extension were only guaranteed for a year
(possibly 2 - I can't remember now) and that I'd have to pay for the fault
to be rectified. I seem to remember the quote was for over 100 notes :(
I would imagine the master socket would not be a chargeable fix. I hope not!
--
Peter <X-Files fan>
Phil Morris
I am in limbo as OneTel won't fix the fault without charging and the
line doesn't revert to BT until the 19th whereupon I will have to report
the fault.
I actually have the fault on both lines coming into my property but the
other line is with BT and not part of this discussion, until now.
I reported the fault to BT (151 Free) just before calling OneTel for the
other line. The automated system at BT confirmed that there is a fault
on my BT line and offered me free redirection of all incoming calls to
my mobile until the fault is fixed and compensation for additional costs
incurred.
The fault on both lines is not on my side of the master socket as a
standard phone plugged directly into the MS gives the same dreadful
crackling on both lines.
--
Phil Morris
DubDriver
"Phil Morris" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:x0xm8hB5...@lydiard.plus.com...
The way I interpret clause 12.2 is that you will be responsible for all
charges that Onetel incur on your behalf in repairing any fault with the
Line Rental Service unless the fault is the result of fair wear and tear.
Your fault is probably due to "fair wear and tear", as most would be, and
therefore not chargable?
http://www.onetel.co.uk/index.php?node=tc-tt-res-landline
4.7 We shall provide the Services with reasonable skill and care. If you do
experience a problem or suspect a fault you should first telephone our
Customer Services Team. Unless you receive the Line Rental Service, we shall
not in any circumstances be responsible for any call-out or other charges
you incur to BT or any other third party network operator as a result of any
problem or fault with the Calls Service. If you are receiving our Line
Rental Service then the provisions of clause 12 will apply.
11.3 We will not in any event be responsible or liable for: (i) any faults,
damage or maintenance to your telephone line unless you are being provided
with the Line Rental Service; (ii) any economic loss (including any loss of
profit, revenue, business, contract, anticipated savings, goodwill or data
or any other financial loss); or (iii) any indirect or consequential loss or
damage.
12.2 You agree that you will be responsible for all charges that you incur
or we incur on your behalf in repairing any fault with the Line Rental
Service unless the fault is the result of any act or omission of us or a
Third Party Operator or is due to fair wear and tear.
12.4 If an engineer attends a fault and decides that the fault is with
equipment owned by you then you will be charged for any work carried out and
the engineer may disconnect the equipment.
12.5 Any charges incurred by you in dealing with faults with the Line Rental
Service shall be at the rates published in the User Guide or on our website.
BTW you could have still got the free calls with BT for line rental and
Onetel for calls.
Happychappy
maintenance cover on their line ...
6. Fault repair
You can report faults to our customer services centre on 0870 444 1820 at
the following times:
Monday-Friday 8am to 8pm
Saturday 9am-6pm
Sunday and bank holidays 10am-5pm
Faults can occur on the TalkTalk network, another operator's network, or on
the telephone used by you or the person you are trying to call. If the fault
is reported during normal working hours, we will try to establish its
location. We may request that you carry out some simple checks to help us
establish the cause.
If you have a TalkTalk line, repairing faults on our network is part of the
maintenance cover we provide with our service.
If you have a BT line and the fault is not on our network, we may not be
responsible for its repair. If the fault is on the BT network, you may need
to report this fault to BT directly. To report a BT fault, call BT
Residential on 0800 800 151.
"Phil Morris" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:x0xm8hB5...@lydiard.plus.com...
o p @secret.com Gonz
>A cautionary note for those considering OneTel/ Talk-Talk as a
>telephone provider:
There's no chance of me considerin usin them for anything.
Vødkäjéllÿ
Phil is it ok if I post this to another group for them to read please?
Thanks
Vj
Phil Morris
<g...@takeoutthisbitgiggle.me.uk> writes
>Phil Morris wrote:
>> In message <45a0...@212.67.96.135>, Bargains <any...@e-mail.net>
>> writes
>>> "Phil Morris" wrote:
>>>> A cautionary note for those considering OneTel/ Talk-Talk as a
>>>> telephone provider:
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Vj
>
>
Go for it my friend!
--
Phil Morris
Phil Morris
<dubsd...@gmail.com> writes
>
>"Phil Morris" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:x0xm8hB5...@lydiard.plus.com...
>>A cautionary note for those considering OneTel/ Talk-Talk as a telephone
>>provider:
>>
>> The crunch came when he said "You will be charged between 60GBP & 108GBP
>> for the engineer's work". Trying very hard to be calm and assuming he had
>> mis-read his script, I explained that the fault was not with my equipment
>> but with BT's to no avail as he insisted that OneTel/Talk-Talk would be
>> charged by BT and the costs would be passed on to me.
>Snipped>
>
>The way I interpret clause 12.2 is that you will be responsible for all
>charges that Onetel incur on your behalf in repairing any fault with the
>Line Rental Service unless the fault is the result of fair wear and tear.
>
>Your fault is probably due to "fair wear and tear", as most would be, and
>therefore not chargable?
I totally agree and I tried to put the point about "fair wear and tear"
to the muppet in India but to no avail.
<Snipped>
>BTW you could have still got the free calls with BT for line rental and
>Onetel for calls.
When I signed up, the offer was only available if I transferred my line
rental unfortunately :o(
--
Phil Morris
Phil Morris
Happychappy <happpychappy...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Taken from Talk Talk code of practice, note they are responsible for
>maintenance cover on their line ...
>
>6. Fault repair
>
>You can report faults to our customer services centre on 0870 444 1820 at
>the following times:
>
>Monday-Friday 8am to 8pm
>
>Saturday 9am-6pm
>
>Sunday and bank holidays 10am-5pm
>
>Faults can occur on the TalkTalk network, another operator's network, or on
>the telephone used by you or the person you are trying to call. If the fault
>is reported during normal working hours, we will try to establish its
>location. We may request that you carry out some simple checks to help us
>establish the cause.
>
>If you have a TalkTalk line, repairing faults on our network is part of the
>maintenance cover we provide with our service.
>
>If you have a BT line and the fault is not on our network, we may not be
>responsible for its repair. If the fault is on the BT network, you may need
>to report this fault to BT directly. To report a BT fault, call BT
>Residential on 0800 800 151.
My contract is with OneTel and is not the same as the Talk-Talk
contract. Although taken over by Talk-Talk, OneTel still exist in their
own right.
--
Phil Morris
Happychappy
Seems a very strange contract to me, would be interesting to get a legal
perspective on it. You are paying onetel to provide a service, when that
service fails or falls below acceptable quality you have to pay them to
repair their equipment!If you were catching a bus to work and it broke down
would you expect to pay for local garage to come out and fix it so that you
could complete your journey? Quite a frightening idea of customer service
that.
Happychappy
Sparks
If that is in the contract, or you have it in writing (or email!) from them,
then it must be unenforceable!
You own the wiring from the master socket onwards.
They own (or rent from BT) anything behind it.
You are not allowed to do *anything* to the wiring downstream of the master
socket, so you cant be held responsible for its upkeep (unless they can
prove it was damaged by you, or course)
Using the agreement they seem to think they have, if a telegraph pole/street
cab was written off by a third party (Say, someone drove a truck into it)
then you are responsible for the cost to repair this, as it is not "fair
wear and tear"
Not only is this totally their responsibility, but they may well have duty
to pay you compensation for the loss of the service you are paying for!
Can you paste a washed* copy of the email here?
Looking at their T&C's...
4.7 We shall provide the Services with reasonable skill and care. If you do
experience a problem or suspect a fault you should first telephone our
Customer Services Team. Unless you receive the Line Rental Service, we shall
not in any circumstances be responsible for any call-out or other charges
you incur to BT or any other third party network operator as a result of any
problem or fault with the Calls Service. If you are receiving our Line
Rental Service then the provisions of clause 12 will apply.
Okay, so you are receiving their line rental service, off to clause 12...
12.1 If you suffer or suspect a fault with the Line Rental Service then you
should contact our Customer Services Team. If you try and contact any Third
Party Operator it is likely they will ask you to contact us.
Okay, so far so good, you contacted them...
12.2 You agree that you will be responsible for all charges that you incur
or we incur on your behalf in repairing any fault with the Line Rental
Service unless the fault is the result of any act or omission of us or a
Third Party Operator or is due to fair wear and tear.
If the fault is with the BT network, then BT can't charge them to fix it.
They will be renting the circuit from BT, if this circuit fails then BT have
to fix it, probably within a certain timeframe.
The charges are not on your behalf as the fault is not yours, there is a
fault on the BT network affecting the service they are trying to provide
you.
So, you won't (shouldn't) be charged for faults that are BT's
responsibility.
12.3 If we decide that an engineer should be sent to your premises in
connection with a fault and that engineer arrives within an agreed
appointment time, you will incur an administration fee if you are not
available at the agreed time.
Fair enough, but that should be enforceable the other way too, you wait in
all day and nobody turns up, send them an administration charge equal to
that of what they would have charged.
12.4 If an engineer attends a fault and decides that the fault is with
equipment owned by you then you will be charged for any work carried out and
the engineer may disconnect the equipment.
Again, fair enough, if the fault is with your kit then they won't be
expected to fix it for free, similarly, if they decide to charge you for the
work on their network, send them a bill for the same amount, plus double any
admin fees they charge you (so you get their fees back, and are charging
them their admin fee rate) if they don't pay, sue them.
12.5 Any charges incurred by you in dealing with faults with the Line Rental
Service shall be at the rates published in the User Guide or on our website.
I guess this would be a refund of the call charges to their 0845 number
then, plus time taken to report the fault and your time taken if an engineer
has to visit - base your hourly rate on that of what you would be charged if
the fault was your end.
Sparks...
IANAL
*washed meaning, personal details removed!
Phil Morris
<postm...@127.0.0.1> writes
With pleasure:
TalkTalk Account:xxxxxxxx
Dear Mr. Morris,
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
I am concerned to know that you wish to disconnect your account, due to
a fault on the line. We charge around £60 - £108 for the engineers
visit. Please be informed British Telecom engineer has to visit the
exchange to check the fault. British Telecom classes this as a new
provides and the order incurs a charge. The engineer is not required to
visit your residence as the work had to be handled at the exchange.
I would like to take this opportunity to assure you that I have passed
your comments to our Service Improvement Team so that we may be able to
further improve the service we offer potential and existing customers.
If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact
our Customer Service Team who will be happy to help. Alternatively you
can email us securely via "My Account" 24 hours a day 7 days a week at
www.onetel.co.uk
Regards,
Vandana Bhagat
Senior Customer Services Adviser
--
Phil Morris
Phil Morris
<m...@privacy.net> writes
I have received an email this morning from Talk-Talk in the UK advising
me that I was given incorrect information by customer services.
The email confirms that I would only be liable for faults on my side of
the master socket or caused by my negligence. Faults with the BT side of
the master socket are not chargeable.
An apology was included but it is too late and I have lost faith in
OneTel as a cheaper alternative to BT.
Thanks for all the comments and advice guys!
--
Phil Morris
PC Paul
As far as I'm aware BT's responsibility was always very rigidly tied to the
master socket - to the point where they have now standardised on a socket
where any extension you do is plugged in, not wired in. The very first thing
they tell you to do when you report a fault is unplug anything plugged into
it and see if the fault goes away.
If the OneTel contract has changed that to say that *any* faults between the
exchange and you will incur a callout charge then I would think they can get
away with that *if you signed it*. It's distasteful, though.
I've crossposted this to uk.legal to see if they have an opinion.. they
usually do ;-)
Joe Lee
"PC Paul" <u...@bitrot.co.uk> wrote in message
news:PQTph.30032$k74....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Indeed they do. I don't wish to offend anyone but I've crossposted this to
uk.telecom for their excellent input.
Joe Lee
(uk.legal)
Harry Stottle
"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message
news:45a84931$0$2442$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
I thought this had already been sorted, apparently OneTel/Talk-Talk have
admitted they got it wrong and apologised, quoted from 11/01/2007 09:11
below:-
<Quote>
I have received an email this morning from Talk-Talk in the UK advising
me that I was given incorrect information by customer services.
The email confirms that I would only be liable for faults on my side of
the master socket or caused by my negligence. Faults with the BT side of
the master socket are not chargeable.
An apology was included but it is too late and I have lost faith in
OneTel as a cheaper alternative to BT.
</Quote>
Spin Dryer
I hope this lying scumbag is sacked by Ontel/Talk-talk :-
Vandana Bhagat
Senior Customer Services Adviser
as well as their manager.
It is despicable for this company to say things that are plainly
untrue, and I hope Ofcom hit them hard.
Perhaps a heads-up to The Register about this ?
Heinz
mentioned:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=281953