THE CLINTON MURDERS: COULD THE *RIGHT* HAVE DONE THEM? - was - Scaife/Foster
Mark S. Bilk
In article <35478b94....@192.168.2.2>, Bobby Archer <bobby...@removeusa.net> wrote:
>
>>> > Seems like the reason that the administration can't control the OIC is
>>> > because the OIC is bought and paid for by Scaife and the VRWC ilk.
>>>
>>> Yeah; that cerrtainly explains why Starr issued a finding
>>> of suicide in the investigation of the death of Vince Foster. ;)
>>Why do you believe Starr came up with that finding? Kind of funny how many
>>prominent Republicans, who ought to know better believe Starr's report. If
>>Starr is protecting anyone on the Foster matter, it would need to be a
>>Republican. Don't you agree?
> So Scaife killed Foster?
Funny you should mention that. Of course, in the
shared fantasy world of the lunatic cult Right-wing,
Clinton killed Vince Foster, dozens of White House
interns, assorted state troopers, Princess Di,
Sonny Bono, and all those people whose mobile homes
got sucked up by tornadoes. All of this to cover
up his tremendous crimes, which, because he's such
an *all-powerful* criminal, he managed to commit
while leaving not a single shred of evidence.
This is certainly a *self-consistent* explanation...
of the kind found in schizophrenia wards!
The other possibility, entertained by those who are
aware of the long history of assassinations, death
squads, and just plain genocide committed by Right-
wingers during the last couple of centuries, is that
*Conservatives* have done these murders, in order to
intimidate Clinton (evidently just reminding him of
what they did to the Kennedy brothers and Dr. King
wasn't enough), and maybe to frame him, too (clearly
the farther-out branches of the Right-wing propaganda
machine, e.g., Jerry Falwell and the Scaife gang,
have been accusing him of these murders for years).
Remember, the last person to see Vince Foster alive
was Linda Tripp.
What would motivate the Right to threaten Clinton?
Well, the Right-wing political organizations exist
for one reason only: to further the interests--
in other words, to increase the profits--of the
wealthy elite who *pay for* those Right-wing poli-
tical organizations.
How has Clinton threatened the wealthy elite?
1. He wanted to set up a medical care system that
threatened to bypass the insurance companies
and HMOs. If it actually *had* turned into a
government-operated "single payer" system, it
would have saved the American people approxi-
mately one third of their medical bills--the
third that the insurance companies skim off
the top as their profit. How many tens or
hundreds of billions of dollars a year is
*that* worth?
2. Clinton is carrying on an unprecedented campaign
against the tobacco industry, with the result
that people are beginning to realize that it's
one of the most monstrous murder-for-profit
syndicates in the history of the world in terms
of numbers of people killed--right up there with
the Nazis, who were also working for big business.
Would it be worth an infinitesimal fraction of
those potentially lost tens of billions of dol-
lars a year profit to hire the best hitmen in
the world? Of course it would. Do some business-
men do that kind of thing? Of course they do!
3. Under Clinton's direction, for the first time
in history, the U.S. *removed* a Fascist, pro-
corporate government in a foreign country--
Haiti. This is a total about-face in American
foreign policy, which heretofore has been mostly
about installing and maintaining such governments
for the benefit of American big business (by
systematically murdering democratic politicians
and union leaders, and terrorizing the population). *
It's all well and good to fire all your workers
in the U.S. and move your factory to South America,
where you can pay people 50 cents an hour, under
NAFTA. But what happens when those people start
to organize and want higher wages? The customary
solution is to have the CIA and creatures like
Ollie North go in there and set up well-armed death
squads to solve the trade union problem, and to
set up a government that is business-friendly--
secret police, midnight "disappearances", U.S.-
trained torturers, and mass graves.
Clinton's action in Haiti set a terrible precedent
against that kind of action. The displeasure of
the wealthy was broadcast loud and clear via
their mouthpiece Rush Limbaugh, who carried on for
months about the proper function of the U.S.
military being to "kill people and break things"
(and *not* to free people from the slavery and
terror keeps them making huge profits for the
wealthy U.S. elite).
Wealthy Right-Wingers have the means, motive, and
opportunity for killing the people around Clinton.
And they have a long history of such actions, both
here and abroad.
* _Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World
War II_, by William Blum, ISBN 1-56751-052-3, $19.95, 458 pp.,
Common Courage Press (Monroe, Maine), ph. 207-525-0900.
Organized as dozens of concise chapters, each on the destruction of
democracy in a particular nation by the U.S., through military and
covert means. A superb and very readable resource, with copious
references.
<LI><a href="http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm">The American Holocaust -- William Blum</a>
<LI><a href="http://www.aliveness.com/msb.html">Links To Reality</a>
Nurse Ratchet
John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com> wrote:
>Mark S. Bilk wrote:
>>
>> Remember, the last person to see Vince Foster alive
>> was Linda Tripp.
>For this to be true, one of the following must also be true:
>1. Linda Tripp shot Vince Foster.
>2. Vince Foster shot himself, and Linda Tripp was standing there, watching.
>Take your pick.
How about this? Vince Foster got drunk, had sex with Linda Tripp,
woke up, and _then_ shot himself?
Nurse Ratchet
dg...@hdo.net
Nurse Ratchet wrote in message <35495...@news-in.pcmagic.net>...
>John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>Mark S. Bilk wrote:
>>>
>>> Remember, the last person to see Vince Foster alive
>>> was Linda Tripp.
>
>>For this to be true, one of the following must also be true:
>
>>1. Linda Tripp shot Vince Foster.
>
>>2. Vince Foster shot himself, and Linda Tripp was standing there,
watching.
>
>>Take your pick.
>
>How about this? Vince Foster got drunk, had sex with Linda Tripp,
>woke up, and _then_ shot himself?
>
>
>Nurse Ratchet
Correct me if I am wrong. I thought Linda Tripp was staunch Clinton
supporter. She only became a tool of Starr when she came to the realization
that the Pres. was a real scum bag.
A-Dog
UH-OH! Now you've done it! You called the President of the United States a
scumbag. Further insights from you are to be considered completely invalid
no matter how logical. You obviously have an agenda against the President.
This is just hate speech and Clinton bashing.
Vote Democrat! Ignorance is Bliss!
Zepp Weasel
>
>Nurse Ratchet wrote in message <35495...@news-in.pcmagic.net>...
>>John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Mark S. Bilk wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the last person to see Vince Foster alive
>>>> was Linda Tripp.
>>
>>>For this to be true, one of the following must also be true:
>>
>>>1. Linda Tripp shot Vince Foster.
>>
>>>2. Vince Foster shot himself, and Linda Tripp was standing there,
>watching.
>>
>>>Take your pick.
>>
>>How about this? Vince Foster got drunk, had sex with Linda Tripp,
>>woke up, and _then_ shot himself?
>>
>>
>>Nurse Ratchet
>
>
>Correct me if I am wrong. I thought Linda Tripp was staunch Clinton
>supporter. She only became a tool of Starr when she came to the realization
>that the Pres. was a real scum bag.
Tripp was never a Clinton supporter. She was a holdover from the Bush
administration, and there are reports that she was voicing antipathy
toward him even before the 1992 election.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Not dead, in jail, or a slave?
Thank a liberal.
-----------------------------------------------------
Be good, servile little citizen-employees:
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
When in doubt, call a stoat!
-----------------------------------------------------
John Moore
Review of "60 Minutes" Foster Story Errors
Mr. Wallace begins this poorly researched piece with the fact
that 2/3 of the American people disbelieve the official
conclusions of the Fiske report and other government
investigators on the death of Vincent Foster. Given Mr.
Wallace's lack of knowledge of the most basic evidence in the
case this figure will no doubt rise during the coming week.
Herein are the most serious flaws (untruths, distortions) in
Mr. Wallace's presentation.
Mr. Wallace states that the Ft. Marcy gun was used in the
alledged suicide. This is not supported by evidence. No bullet
has been found and without this it cannot be determined if the
Ft. Marcy gun fired the fatal shot. There is no evidence
showing the cranial wounds were caused by a .38 caliber bullet.
In short there is no corroborating evidence showing that the Ft.
Marcy gun caused the alledged fatal head wound. The only fact
linking the Ft. Marcy gun to the death is it's unexplained
sudden appearance at the scene.
CW, the Confidential Witness of the Fiske report, stated that
the body lay with the palms facing up without a gun in either
hand. EMS Gonzales and Hall, who arrived at the death scene
after CW and Fornshill were the first to discover the
mysterious revolver in the right hand of Mr. Foster's body.
(Fiske Report pg. 33)
Mr. Wallace described the body, to Mr. Ruddy, as covered with
blood over back and shoulders. Yet Mr. Wallace did not recall
that CW, the first to discover the body, did not see any blood
on the shoulders and back. (Fiske Report pg. 30, House Cong.
Record 8/2/94 pgs 6618-6622) The blood stains on the right
cheek, neck and shoulder were first reported at the time of
the mysterious appearance of the gun in hand. (Fiske Report pg. 33)
Mr. Wallace failed to mention that the Fiske report blamed
this blood spillaged on "early observers" at the scene before
photos were taken. (Fiske Report pg 45) In other words the
shoulder and back blood stains were caused after death and
not a result of the alledged gunshot as explained by
Mr. Wallace.
Mr. Wallace declared that all professionals so far have
determined suicide as the cause of death. For unstated
reasons Mr. Wallace ignored the conclusions of NY Police
homicide detectives Santucci and Scalice who have publicly
said the evidence does not support the Fiske conclusion of
death in the park. Masaad Ayoob, weapons expert to the Los
Angeles Police Department has likewise questioned the Fiske
conclusion based on the unusual and awkward two hand cylinder
grip alledgedly used by Mr. Foster to grasp the gun. Finally,
Gene Wheaton, former CID agent for the Army where he
investigated numerous violent deaths has also condemed the
Fiske conclusion of death in the park.
Mr. Wallace described the head of the body as above the berm.
Yet the reports of CW and Officer Fornshill show the head
clearly below the berm. (Fiske Report pg 32) Mr. Wallace used
this to explain the lack of ejected matter from the head and
missing bullet. In reality the berm would have been a natural
catch basin for the skull and brain fragments. Yet no such
fragments were found. The lack of ejected matter is completely
inconsistent with the official conclusion of a head shot
administered at the park.
An individual interviewed by Mr. Wallace implied that the
carpet fibers on the body were from Foster's house rugs just
bought by Lisa Foster. Yet Mr. Wallace failed to ask the
obvious question, were the carpet fibers from Mr. Fosters
clothes compared to those of the Foster house? The answer is
no. There is no reported attempt by the Park Police or FBI to
identify the origin of the carpet fibers. This was the most
blatant use of disinformation in the entire story.
Those who have followed the Foster discussions in this and
other forums will no doubt see other basic errors in the
60 Minutes report.
There is one question which begs an answer: What would prompt
CBS to produce such an ill-prepared segment?
John Moore
Foster : Mr. Isikoff Makes a Monkey of Himself
>SLATE MAGAZINE
>October 18, 1997
>COVER: THE VINCE FOSTER CONSPIRACY, DOA
>The Strange Case of Christopher Ruddy
>And the crime against logic being passed off as a book.
>By Michael Isikoff
>(1,213 words; posted Saturday, Oct. 18)
> On the off chance that you haven't followed every
>twist and turn of the case, there are two ways to reassure
>yourself that former Deputy White House Counsel Vincent
>Foster killed himself in Fort Marcy Park. One is to read
>Whitewater Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr's
>just-released report on the subject--a briskly efficient
>114-page document that makes an already overwhelming case
>for suicide about as close to airtight as you can get.
Well Isikoff --- show us one of those "airtight" cubicles of
"brisk efficiency".
> The other is to read Christopher
>Ruddy's new book, The Strange Death of Vincent Foster.
>Ruddy, of course,is the Inspector Clouseau
>
Hmmm...... insults before facts, if indeed any facts follow.
Before we are done I believe it will be Mr. Isikoff in the
shoes of Inspector Clouseau.
>
> of the Foster case--a determined, if bumbling,
>former New York Post reporter who has virtually single-handedly
spawned
>a cottage industry of conspiracy buffs dedicated to the
>proposition that a foul and monstrous cover-up surrounds
>the circumstances of Foster's death.
>
>Financed by a cranky right-wing philanthropist, Richard
>Mellon Scaife,
Mr. Scaife, if you are reading this please forward my
compensation --- I have yet to receive my first payment as
promised by Mr. Isikoff!! (on your behalf)
>Ruddy's repeated bromides about the Foster case have been
>republished in newspaper ads across the country; his sheer
>persistence has led some casual observers to conclude he
>might be on to something. The Strange
>Death, published by The Free Press, a division of Simon &
>Schuster, is endorsed as "serious and compelling" by former
>FBI Director William Sessions.
Former FBI Director Sessions endorses Ruddy's work ---- ha!
what does an FBI director know about tampered evidence?
> In the New York Times Book Review, National Review senior
>editor Richard Brookhiser chides political journalists for
>failing to pursue Ruddy's many "unanswered questions" about
>the case.
> Don't worry, when it comes to how Foster died,
>there aren't any--or none that matter.
Hmm........ Mr. Isikoff explain how the gun appeared only 15 to
25 minutes AFTER the dead body was discovered.
> Ruddy's book--and the entire movement he has
>helped create--is utterly preposterous. Turgidly written
Hardly turgid, though certainly a rigorous education for
the uninitiated.
> and dense with
>534 footnotes and seven appendixes,
Well that tricky Ruddy using all those facts and "footnotes".
Ruddy still hasn't caught on, it's not the evidence --- it's
the politics "stupid".
> the plodding Ruddy
Isn't it more likely that the plodding was on the part of
the uninformed reader?
> repeatedly connfuses the evidence
Well show us a few examples of "confused evidence"
> and chases after scores of imaginary holes in the
>official verdict--without ever positing an alternative
>scenario that makes the least bit of sense.
>
>To fully understand why the "debate" over Foster's death
>is so phony, it helps to review a few of the raw,
>incontrovertible (you would think) facts. Foster left his
>White House office for the last time at around 1
>p.m. on July 20, 1993. About five hours later, his supine
>body was discovered by a secluded Civil War cannon near
>the Potomac River, a bullet wound through his mouth, his
>right thumb trapped in the trigger of an antique
>.38-caliber revolver,
Well no wonder Mr. Isikoff is confused. The body was first
found without a gun. The body was discovered with both hands
palm-up and empty, no gun in sight. The gun didn't appear
for another 15 to 25 minutes.
So Mr. Isikoff, just how does a dead man go and get a gun?
>gun-shot residue on his hand, and
>blood oozing from the back of his head.
Poor Mr. Isikoff, wrong again. Dr. Haut the M.E. at the
scene along with the EMT's could not find any blood flowing
from the head wound. Nor did they notice any blood around
the base of the head.
Something is definitely "oozing" but it is not from
Mr. Foster.
> There were no signs of a
>struggle;
Extremely perceptive Mr. Isikoff. More to the point though
--- when did you ever see a dead man struggle?
Perhaps it was the same time you saw a dead man grab a gun?
> his sports jacket was later found folded over the front
>seat of his Honda Accord in a nearby parking lot.
Ooops wrong again Mr. Isikoff. Mr. Foster's gray 1989 Honda
didn't show up till after 6:00 p.m. July 20, 1993. This was
a couple of hours after Mr. Foster died.
Now look at the mess you're in. Not only do you have to
explain how a dead man struggles and grabs a gun but now
you've got to explain how a dead man drives a car!
Somehow I don't think you've given this matter enough thought.
> In the days that followed,
>friends and family members described Foster as distraught
>over the demands of his job and suffering from clear
>signs of depression.
Ooops wrong again Mr. Isikoff. Immediately after the death
no one described Mr. Foster as "distraught" or "depressed".
In fact Webster Hubbell said the death could not have been
a suicide. Of course after a few weeks Mr. Hubbell and the
other witnesses had been "counselled" and everyone
"remembered" Mr. Foster as "depressed". Mr. Hubbell no
longer says irresponsible things and now believes Mr.
Foster committed suicide.
> Starr
>adds new details: Just four days before his death, he
>reports, Foster broke down in tears over dinner with his
>wife and talked of resigning.
Mr. Starr is a brilliant detective. Crying is pretty damaging
evidence. Everyone knows that most men will cry over dinner
just previous to blowing their brains out.
Yep, this sure cinches the suicide theory for me. Toss out
the missing gun at the time the body was first discovered.
Forget the fact that Mr. Foster's car didn't show until a
couple hours after his death. Ignore the lack of blood at the
scene as noted by several officials. Disregard all the other
crime scene evidence.
All we need to know is that Mr. Foster cried at dinner.
It's got to be suicide!!
For your own good Mr. Isikoff I must give you this advice:
If you ever do cry don't do it in the company of others,
especially at dinner!!
>On the day before he died he phoned his family doctor in
>Little Rock, Ark. According to the doctor's typewritten
>notes, published in Starr's report for the first time,
>Foster complained of stress, anorexia, and insomnia, and
>received a prescription for Desyrel, an antidepressant.
>
> It is Ruddy's contention that none of this should
>necessarily be believed; the doctor, the widow, the friends,
>the Park Police officers that found the body, the coroner
>who performed the autopsy--all may well
>be "complicit" in a cover-up. But why? As far as the Park
>Police goes, Ruddy argues, they mistakenly rushed to the
>judgment that Foster's death was a suicide and are concealing
>the fact that they failed to follow proper police procedures
>by considering alternatives, such as murder and/or the
>possibility that Foster died somewhere else and his body
>was "moved" to Fort Marcy by an unidentified group of secret
>conspirators.
Your brilliance is astounding Mr. Isikoff. Isn't it just like
those whackos to dream-up an "unidentified group of secret
consiprators"?? What we need are those good-ol' fashioned
"in-your-face" non-secret conspirators. Hmmmm.... reminds me
of the White House and Congress.
>The argument begs certain questions, such as: Who were these
>conspirators?
Well the answer is simple --- the Fiske/Starr evidence doesn't
reveal the identities of the conspirators. This is why more
investigation is needed. This is typical of murders throughout
the nation which begin with the discovery of the victim but
no perpetrator.
> What possible motive would they have had?
Motive is not necessary to establish homicide. It happens
every day in this country when a murder victim is found
abandoned in a remote area.
> Why deposit
>Foster's body in a public park?
Well ---- SO IT COULD BE FOUND!!!
> (At least the Mafia drops its victims in
>rivers.)
Hmmmm.... I guess you never heard about Paul Castellano.
Mr. Isikoff you really should get out more.
I could go on and on but I think you get the point.
[rest of article snipped to avoid further embarassment to
Mr. Isikoff]
John Moore
Fed Law Allows Bio. Experiments on Public
The Following is taken from United States Code Title
50 Chap. 32
Section 1520: CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM
(The United States Code in the complete compilation of
all Federal US Laws. There are 50 Titles or major
groupings dealing with every aspect of Federal law
ie: Social Security, Veterans Benefits, Indian Affairs,
War, National Security, Income Tax etc.. This is a new
law as of 1994)
1520. Use of human subjects for testing of chemical or
biological agents by Department of Defense; accounting
to Congressional committees with respect to experiments
and studies; notification of local civilian officials
(a) Not later than thirty days after final approval
within the Department of Defense of plans for any
experiment or study to be conducted by the Department
of Defense, whether directly or under contract, involving
the use of human subjects for the testing of chemical
or biological agents, the Secretary of Defense shall
supply the Committees on Armed Services of the Senate
and House of Representatives with a full accounting of
such plans for such experiment or study, and such
experiment or study may then be conducted only after
the expiration of the thirty-day period beginning
on the date such accounting is received by such
committees.
(b)
(1) The Secretary of Defense may not conduct any test
or experiment involving the use of any chemical or
biological agent on civilian populations unless local
civilian officials in the area in which the test or
experiment is to be conducted are notified in advance
of such test or experiment, and such test or experiment
may then be conducted only after the expiration of the
thirty-day period beginning on the date of such notification.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall apply to tests and experiments
conducted by Department of Defense personnel and tests
and experiments conducted on behalf of the Department
of Defense by contractors.
----------------------------------------------------------
Take particular note that Section 1520 applies to human
subjects, not just military human subjects AND that
"notification of local civilian officials" is not
restricted to officials in communities close to
military reservations. In other words the locations
for such tests are not specified or limited to any region.
Note that paragraph b) 1) specifically allows the use
of civilians in chem/bio testing. Note that nowhere
is it specified that said civilians MUST be notified
or that PERMISSION must be given by said civilians.
In other words we are all potential guinea pigs.
Note that the Department of Defense is not required to
gain the permission of "local civilian officials" but
only to supply "notification". The content and manner
of such "notification" and the "local officials"
acceptable for "notification" are not specified. In
other words once the Department of Defense has decided
to experiment on a town there is no recourse --- in
effect there are only 30 days to prepare or exit.
Note that private contractors under the direction of
the Department of Defense may carry out chemical and
biological experiments on the public.
Note that "local officials" are not required to notify
local civilians after receipt of "notification" of
chem/bio testing.
Note that neither the Department of Defense, nor the
Committees on Armed Services of the Senate and House
are required to notify local civilian populations.
This section of law is sandwiched between two other
sections of law which deal exclusively with military
usage of chemical and biological agents.
The recent uproar over Gulf War Disease and the denial
of such by the Department of Defense may be precusor
to similar events in the US civilian population.
John Moore
Magical Foster Evidence
There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
items even while straining all credulity with
fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
Magic is popular where science and logic are
unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
Certainly the Fiske-Foster conclusion is properly
labeled propaganda as shown below.
Item 1 -- The Magic Gun
In August of 1994 CW, the Confidential Witness
who first discovered Mr. Foster's body, gave
sworn testimony that no gun was present in
either of Mr. Foster's hands. He swore that each
hand was palm-up and empty. CW gave his
testimony after the release of the Fiske report.
CW was a critical Fiske witness. Yet CW did not
agree with Fiske's transcription of his [CW]
comments. The gun did not appear in Foster's
hand until 15 to 25 minutes AFTER CW left the
scene. It was discovered when Officer Fornshill
came upon the body following CW's directions.
The origin of the gun on the body is still
unexplained.
Item 2 -- The Magic Keys
Officer John Rolla arrived at Ft. Marcy after
Officer Fornshill, sometime after 6:30 p.m. July
20, 1993. Officer Rolla searched Mr. Foster's
body for personal effects. He searched all of
Mr. Foster's pockets and found no car keys.
After Mr. Foster's body was taken to the morgue
Craig Livingstone arrived. His purpose
was to identify the body. After Mr. Livingstone's
visit at the morgue Officer Cheryl Braun searched
the body again. Officer Braun did so and magically
discovered a large wad of several car keys in
Mr. Foster's previously searched pocket. Officer
Rolla maintains there were no keys in Mr. Foster's
pockets at the scene of death, Ft. Marcy park.
Item 3 -- The Magic Car
Several Fiske witnesses recounted descriptions
of cars in the Ft. Marcy parking lot during
the evening of Mr. Foster's death. Patrick
Knowlton recalled a brown Honda at approximately
4:30 p.m. A romantic couple parked in a white
Nissan recalled the same Honda and other cars
during the late afternoon. CW noted a white
Japanese car. Yet despite all these witnesses
NO ONE recalled Mr. Foster's gray Honda. In fact
the Foster GRAY Honda was not seen in the lot
until after about 6:30 p.m. by EMTs and Police.
Mr. Foster's dead body had been discovered about
40 minutes previous to this time, 5:50 p.m. In
fact the first officials to arrive in the
Ft. Marcy lot (6:10 p.m.) did not see the Gray
Honda either. The appearance of the Foster car
is unexplained.
Item 4 -- The Magic Splotch
Upon arrival at the death scene Park Police only
noted small blood tracks from the nose and mouth.
Yet during the time the body lay in the
park, under police custody, a large blood splotch
appeared on the right cheek. Mr. Fiske blamed
this on improper handling by the police or EMTs.
Yet all police and EMTs (Emergency Medical Techs)
strongly deny responsibility. The appearance of
the blood splotch is unexplained.
Item 5 -- The Magic Blood
Dr. Haut, a Medical Examiner for Fairfax County,
examined the body at the scene. He found only
a small, matted clot of hair on the back of the
head. In his FBI interview he described little
blood. When Dr. Haut ordered the body rolled
a stain was discovered on the ground under the
back. According to Mr. Fiske this was a large
quantity of blood. According to Dr. Haut it
was not large. On moving the body and placing it
in a bag EMT Corey Ashford also noted the
surprising lack of blood on the body and his
rubber gloves. After arrival at the morgue the
back of the shirt was described as soaked with
blood. Mr. Fiske explains that the body bled
profusely hours after death, while in transit, yet
bled little while allegedly dying at Ft. Marcy.
Commonality of Magic Evidence
There are common elements to each of these 5
magic items of evidence.
1) The magic item did not appear on the first
inspection of the body or scene.
2) No one observed the appearance of the magic
item.
3) All magic items appeared after police took
custody of the death scene and all evidence.
4) The first 3 magic items of evidence are not
explained.
5) The last 2 magic items are poorly explained
and contradicted by other evidence.
Many people dismiss these items as sloppy
police work. Of course many people also believe
in magic. However even magicians cannot explain
a dead man grabbing a gun and driving a car.
As a boy I learned a limerick with a lulling
meter and deceptively easy flow:
One bright day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys began to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other,
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
And came to kill those two dead boys.
Like "Alice in Wonderland" it is a child's story
with clear adult implications. Given a certain
context and a certain source we can be lulled into
accepting the unacceptable.
John Moore
Official Quotes from CW's Sworn Testimony to Congress
August 2, 1994 House Congressional Record, pg H6620
"Involving the statement about the gun in Vince
Foster's hand, I made it clear that the palms of his
hands were facing up and at his sides."
"After having seen the photo of the hand and the gun
I am sure, I am sure the hand had been moved, because
the palms were both face up when I saw Mr. Foster's
body."
Congressman Burton: "Would you tell us how close you
were to the body and how close you got to his face,
his hands and everything else."
CW: "I stood directly over the top of his head at
the head of the berm. My right foot, I'm sure that
it was my right foot, was somewhere between 24 to 30
inches from the top of his head. No closer. At that
point, leaning over with my left foot extended behind
me I looked directly down into his eyes from about 3
foot to 4 foot maximum above his face."
Congressman Mica: "Was there a gun in the hands?"
CW: "There was no gun in his hand. His-both palms were
face up, thumbs out to the side."
Congressman Mica: "You did not see a gun?"
CW: "I did not see a gun next to the body."
"I clearly saw his hands were empty and he had no signs
that he had, was defending himself or something."
Congressman Mica: "Did you see--you said the palms were out?"
CW: "The palms were face up."
Congressman Mica: "Both? Both palms?"
CW: "Right beside him neatly. Just like that." (CW gestures)
John Moore
Proof of Homicide in the Case of Vincent Foster
Those who have supported the official conclusion of suicide by
Mr. Fiske have found themselves swamped by contrary evidence. As
a result, supporters of Mr. Fiske have assidiously avoided any
contact with the evidence and instead have used the methods of
propagandists. To counter this dis-information the following
simple proof of homicide is offered. Undoubtedly there are
others.
Pertinent Evidence: (Source: Fiske Report, FBI Lab Reports,
Autopsy, Congressional Record.)
1) CW, the Confidential Witness who first discovered Mr.
Foster's body, stated in sworn testimony before members of
the US House as recorded in the August 2, 1994 (House Congressional
Record 8/2/94 approx pg H6619) that Mr. Foster had no gun in
either hand. There was no gun at the scene.
The first reference to the Ft. Marcy gun occurs about 20
to 30 minutes after CW had departed the scene. According to
Mr. Fiske, EMT Gonzales and assistant noticed the gun in
Foster's hand after re-discovering the body with USPP
Officer Fornshill standing over it. (Fiske Report on
Vincent Foster 6/30/94 pg. 32)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been
planted at the scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having been incapable of
using the Ft. Marcy gun.
2) The FBI failed to trace the ownership of the Ft. Marcy gun
(a black 1913 Colt .38 caliber Army Revolver) to Foster or
his family. In fact the FBI was unable to trace the ownership
to anyone. To this day the ownership of the Ft. Marcy gun
is unknown. (Fiske pg. 38 top)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been planted
at the scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having not used the Ft.
Marcy gun.
3) The three adult Foster children all denied that the Ft. Marcy
gun belonged to the family collection. (Fiske pg. 38 bottom)
Mr. Foster's wife, Lisa, could not identify the Ft. Marcy gun
as belonging to the family. In her FBI interview the former
Mrs. Foster discussed only one gun, the silvery gun from
Arkansas, as being similar (but NOT identical) to the black
Ft. Marcy gun.
Clearly the Ft. Marcy gun, which is black, is not identical
to the silver-colored family gun recalled by Mrs. Foster.
Sharon Bowman, Mr. Foster's sister, also failed to identify
the Ft. Marcy gun as belonging to the family. Mrs. Bowman
noted that the etched webbing on the grips of the Ft. Marcy
gun were "similar" to those on the family gun. However such
webbing is common on most revolvers from Colt and Smith &
Wesson. Mrs. Bowman could not recall anything particular to
the family or her father that distinguished the webbing she
recalled.
Conclusion:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been planted
at the scene.
4) The exit wound in the head of the deceased is far too small
for a .38 caliber HV (High Velocity) unjacketed lead round
from a 4" barrel gun. Such bullets typically remove a
fist-sized area of the skull around the exit. The autopsy on
Mr. Foster describes an exit wound the size of a quarter or
half-dollar. (Report of Autopsy, Office of the Chief Medical
Examiner Fairfax VA. Signed by Dr. James C. Beyer dated July
28 1993 -- Body Diagram-Head)
Conclusions:
This is evidence that the Ft. Marcy gun did not inflict the
head wound.
This is consistent with the gun having been planted at the
scene.
5) The fatal bullet was never retrieved. Without the fatal
bullet no ballistics match can be done with the Ft. Marcy gun
therefore it cannot be shown that this gun caused the head
wound. The FBI scoured Ft. Marcy Park on two occasions.
Several Civil War era bullets, which would have been buried
much deeper than a recent bullet, were recovered. Yet the
alleged Foster bullet was not found. (Fiske pg. 47)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having not
inflicted the head wound.
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been
planted at the scene.
6) Mr. Foster left no fingerprints, human hand oils or
perspiration on the Ft. Marcy gun though it was a hot 90
degrees on the day of his death. In fact there were no
organic substances on the Ft. Marcy gun which could be
directly attributable to Mr. Foster. (FBI Lab Washington
June 9 1994, File No. 29D-LR-35063 Lab No. E-2700 pg. 2)
Certain DNA tests found genetic material of a class which
included Mr. Foster, yet this genetic material was not
exclusive to Mr. Foster. In other words just as a blood type
includes many individuals so does Mr. Foster's DNA class.
In fact 8 percent of Blacks have the same DNA class as
Mr. Foster who was Caucasian. However the FBI stated that
only 6% of Caucasians are of the DNA Type found on the
Ft. Marcy gun.(FBI Lab Washington D.C. May 9,1994 FBI
File 29D-LR-35063 pg. 10, DNA ANALYSIS)
In short it is more probable that the DNA sample came from
a Black than a White man. The DNA could have come from
anyone who handled the mysterious gun during it's un-
traceable 84 year life.
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having not
inflicted the head wound.
This is consistent with the gun having been planted at the
scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having not used the gun.
7) No brain or bone fragments from the exit wound were found at
the scene. (Fiske pg 32-36, 47)
Conclusions:
This is not consistent with the damage done by a .38 caliber
High Velocity unjacketed round nosed lead bullet.
This is consistent with Ft. Marcy gun having not inflicted
the head wound.
This is consistent with items 1 through 6.
8) NEW: Second gunshot wound, below jaw as reported in Fiske
by EMTs but discounted, has been confirmed by Ambrose E. Pritchard's
reporting of a Park Police photo showing the wound.
Conclusions:
This is not consistent with the damage done by a .38 caliber bullet.
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun not having inflicted the
head wound.
This is consistent with Vincent Foster having not used the Ft. Marcy
gun
A second gunshot wound to the neck by a second gun contradicts
suicide and strongly supports homicide.
This is consistent with conclusions in points 1 through 7.
The above evidence, and other evidence not discussed here, all
points to only one conclusion, the Ft. Marcy gun did not inflict
the head wound on the deceased. Without the Ft. Marcy gun there
can be no suicide because there is no known instrument of death.
(Dead men do not dispose of their suicide weapons)
Without the Ft. Marcy gun as the death weapon we are left with
only a dead body and a violent, unexplained hole in the head.
Further the unexplained appearance of the Ft. Marcy gun in
context with the other evidence points clearly to obstruction
of justice for the purpose of deception.
NEW: Further the appearance of a second gunshot wound to the neck
of different caliber from the .38 caliber Ft. Marcy gun can be
construed at this point as firm evidence of murder.
There are only four possibilities:
1) Natural death
2) Accidental death
3) Suicide
4) Homicide
Option 1 has never been in contention.
Option 2 is not possible as there is no instrument in evidence
or at the scene which would explain the head wound.
Option 3 has been disproven by the evidence which shows the Ft.
Marcy gun did not inflict the head wound and was not originally
at the scene. There is no evidence linking the Ft. Marcy gun to
the Foster death with the exception of it's unexplained
appearance at the park.
NEW: Option 3 is disproven by a second gunshot wound of different
caliber.
Option 4, homicide, is the only remaining option.
There are no other choices.
This concludes the proof of homicide.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Common objections:
Suicide Elsewhere, Sloppiness, Motive, Killers, Surety,
Disproval of Homicide.
After examining the unpleasant conclusion above many people leap
to concluding that Mr. Foster committed suicide but not at
Ft. Marcy. Unfortunately there is no publicly available evidence
to support this desperate notion.
Certain evidence, not discussed here, indicates Mr. Foster may
have indeed died outside of Ft. Marcy. However the evidence does
not support suicide. The evidence points to homicide outside of
Ft. Marcy. Those who jump to suicide elsewhere overlook an
obvious difficulty. Historically, "suicides" as described in
the Foster case are constructed to hide homicide.
The contradictions in the Foster evidence give the impression
of sloppiness on the part of the alleged perpetrators. This
limited yet somewhat correct observation, leads many to falsely
conclude that murder is not possible. The reason usually given
for this is that the perpetrators would surely have had access
to the best assassins and therefore there would be no
"sloppiness".
This backwards logic infects much of the Foster debate. Note
that the argument does not invoke or deny evidence, but is based
only on the assumption that professional assassins would not
leave such evidence. Those who travel this path consider them-
selves perceptive. Yet this perception misses a very obvious
point, that the evidence is contrary to suicide. Whether we
perceive the perpetrators as sloppy or not the conclusions
drawn from the evidence remain --- and those conclusions
dictate homicide.
The motive for Mr. Foster's homicide initiates much discussion
amongst those who mistakenly believe that such is necessary to
establish murder. Brief reflection will show that murder victims
are discovered every day in this country without a killer or
motive apparant. The local police begin an investigation which
is charged with finding the killer and the motive.
Clearly, motive is not necessary to establish homicide.
Regarding Foster, the publicly available evidence does not show
a motive.
Much speculation has been generated about Mr. Foster's
murderer(s). The publicly available evidence does not reveal the
murderers. This is a matter for further investigation.
Presumably Mr. Steven Parker, the Memphis prosecutor is pursuing
this matter.
Often it is asked if we can be absolutely sure that Mr. Foster
was murdered. This is an irrelevant question. In a court of law,
the highest standard to which the evidence applies, surety is
not required. The law only requires that no reasonable doubt
remain before determining homicide.
Some argue that the future cannot be known so evidence may
appear later which will disprove homicide. Unfortunately this
is true in any homicide, or crime. If this rule were applied to
all criminal cases then there would NEVER be a conviction. The
best that can be said for Foster is that after 3 1/2 years of
investigation no evidence has yet surfaced which disproves the
well known Foster contradictions.
At some point in all criminal cases the time for gathering
evidence stops and a verdict is rendered. This has been the
nature of our justice system for over 200 years. Foster should
be no exception.
John Moore
Strange Deaths Surround the Presidency
THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT
The following is a partial list of a large number of
persons who have recently met their demise in suspicious
circumstances and who appear to have some connection to the
Clintons.
________________________________________________________
THE MOST RECENT
________________________________________________________
Mary Mahoney
White House Intern
died 7/97
An attractive 25 year old woman, Mary was a former White
House Intern for Bill Clinton working as the Assistant
Manager at a Starbuck's Coffee shop in Georgetown. In the
pre-trial publicity surrounding Paula Jones lawsuit, and
mere days after Newsweek's Mike Isikoff had
dropped hints that a "former White House staffer" was
about to go public with her story of sexual harassement
at 1600 Pennsylvania, gunmen entered the Starbuck's while
the crew was cleaning up after closing. Mary's two
associates were taken to a room and shot. Mary herself had
five bullets in her. No money was taken. As of this
writing, Mike Isikoff's "former White House staffer" has
never appeared.
________________________________________________________
THE MOST FAMOUS
________________________________________________________
Vincent Foster
White House Counsel
died: 7/21/93 - Found dead in Ft. Marcy Park in Washington,
DC, of a supposed suicide by gunshot. A suicide note was
supposedly found a fews days later, torn into several
pieces, in his briefcase, after his office had been
entered by WhiteHouse staff and materials removed. The
gun which he supposedly used to kill himself was reported
to be still in his hand, but the person who first found
the body reports that there was no gun at that time. Many
irregularities surround the death and the investigation of
it. - Foster was also from Hope, Ark., like Clinton, and
also worked for the Rose Law firm. Foster had intimate
knowledge of the Clintons' personal finances. Foster was
involved in an investigation of their finances, and
reportedly made a phone call to Hillary Clinton, in Little
Rock, just hours before his death.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
DEAD BODYGUARDS
________________________________________________________
Maj. Gen. William Robertson
Deputy Commanding General, V Corps, Europe
Col William Densberger
V Corps Chief of Operations and Plans
Col. Robert Kelly
V Corps Chief of Intelligence
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Crew Chief
died: 2/23/93 - All were killed when their helicopter
crashed in Weisbaden, Germany. No cause was ever determined.
- V Corps figured prominently in the US Bosnia-Serbia
peacekeeping operations, along with the carrier Roosevelt.
These men, and 8 others associated with Clinton's visit
to the Roosevelt all died within 4 months of each other.
________________________________________________________
Steve Willis
Clinton bodyguard
Robert Williams
Clinton bodyguard
Conway LeBleu
Clinton bodyguard
Todd McKeehan
Clinton bodyguard
died: 2/28/93 - "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas
assault on the Branch Davidians. - All four were examined
by a "private doctor" and died from nearly identical
wounds to the left temple, so-called execution style.
According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and other
evidence indicates that none died from guns fired by
Branch Davidians.
________________________________________________________
_
Five Navy aviators
Clinton bodyguards/escorts
(names not determined) died: 3/26/93 - all died in a crash
of an E-2C Hawkeye in Italy. The crash occurred shortly
after the plane was "waved off" from a landing attempt on
the Carrier Roosevelt, due to a "foul deck". - All five
men had been Clinton's escorts during Clinton's visit to
the Roosevelt 2 weeks prior. Three other men, who had
flown Clinton to the Roosevelt for that visit also died
later in a helicopter crash.
_________________________________________________________________
Staff Sgt. Brian Haney
Clinton bodyguard
Marine Sgt. Tim Sabel
Clinton bodyguard
Maj. William Barkley
Clinton bodyguard
Capt. Scott Reynolds
Clinton bodyguard
died: 5/19/93 - All four men died when their helicopter
crashed in the woods near Quantico, Va. - Reporters were
barred from the site, and the head of the fire department
responding to the crash described it by saying, "Security
was tight," with "lots of Marines with guns." A
videotape made by a firefighter was seized by the Marines.
All four men had escorted Clinton on his flight to the
carrier Roosevelt shortly before their deaths.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
DEAD FUNDRAISERS
________________________________________________________
C. Victor Raiser II
National Finance Co-Chairman, Clinton for President Campaign
Montgomery Raiser
Son of C. Victor Raiser II
died: 7/30/92 - Both men died in a private plane crash in
Alaska, en route to a fishing expedition. No cause was
ever determined. Five others not connected to Clinton died
with them. - DeeDee Meyers described Raiser as a "major
player" in the Clinton organization. Victor raiser was
also chairman of Mobile Telecomm Technologies Corp.,
whose subsidiary, SkyTel Corp. is an international paging
company used by federal police agencies such as the FBI.
________________________________________________________
Paul Tully
Democratic National Committee Political Director
died: 9/24/92 - Found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock
Arkansas of "unknown causes." No autopsy allowed. -
Described by Clinton as a "dear friend and trusted advisor.
Tully authored several key strategies for Clinton and the
party.
________________________________________________________
Ed Willey
Real Estate Attorney, Clinton Fund Raisor
died: 11/30/93 - Died of gunshot to the head. Body found
in deep woods in Virginia. Ruled a suicide, no note was
found, nor was any motive identified. - Intimately
involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
________________________________________________________
Hershell Friday
Attorney and Clinton fund raiser.
died: ??? - Killed when his plane exploded. Cause unknown.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
DEAD WITNESSES
________________________________________________________
Jerry Parks
Head of Clinton's Guberntorial security team in Little Rock.
died: 9/26/93 - Gunned down in his car at a deserted
intersection outside Little Rock. - His family reported
that shortly before his death, they were being followed by
unknown persons, and their home had been broken into.
Parks had been compiling a dossier on Clinton's
illicit activities. The dossier was stolen.
________________________________________________________
James Bunch
Influential Texan
died: ??? - Died from a gunshot suicide, similar to Vince
Foster. - Was discovered to have a "little black book"
containing the names of many influential persons in Texas
and Arkansas who visited certain prostitutes.
________________________________________________________
John Wilson
Former Washington DC Council member
died: 5/18/93 - Found dead from an apparent hanging
suicide - Suicide appears suspicious due to an unusual
number of reports made to the media concerning his
"depression". Was reported, but not proven, to
have ties to the Whitewater affair.
________________________________________________________
Bill Shelton
Arkansas state trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson
died: 6/94 - allegedly committed suicide by shooting
himself at the gravesite of his fiancee - Officer Shelton
was the fiancee of Kathy Ferguson, who was the ex-wife of
Trooper Danny Ferguson. Kathy Ferguson also committed
"suicide" 6/94 when she shot herself in her living room.
Oddly, next to the body were her packed bags, as if she
was expecting to be going somewhere. Danny Ferguson is a
co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in Paula Corbin
Jones's sexual harassment suit. His ex-wife was reported
as a corroborating witness for Ms. Jones.
________________________________________________________
Kathy Furguson
Ex-wife of Trooper Danny Furguson
died: circa 5/94 - Died of a supposed gunshot suicide in her
living room. There was a suicide note found by the body.
However, friends were surprise at having noticed nothing
wrong previously. And even more curious, found nearby
were several packed suitcases, as if she expected she was
going somewhere. She was the former wife (since
changed her name) of Trooper Danny Ferguson, who is the
Arkansas State Trooper alleged to have escorted Paula
Corbin Jones to the hotel room for her alleged episode of
sexual harrassment by then-Governor Clinton. Ferguson's
wife was reported as a possible corroborating
witness for Ms. Jones.
________________________________________________________
Gandy Baugh
Attorney representing Mr. Lassater in a case concerning
alleged financial misconduct.
died: circa 5/94 - Died in an alleged suicide by jumping
out of a window of a multi-story building. - Mr. Lassater
was a close associate of Gov. Clinton, and was later
indicted on drug related charges, among other things.
________________________________________________________
Dr. Ronald Rogers
Dentist from Arkanasas
Killed in plane crash as he was on his way to an interview
with a "London Sunday Telegraph" reporter to reveal some
Clinton dirt.
________________________________________________________
Stanley Huggins
Partner in Memphis law firm
investigating Madison Guaranty. His 300 page report has
never been released.
________________________________________________________
Florence Martin
Accountant subcontracting to CIA
related to the Barry Seal case. Dead of three gunshot
wounds to the head.
________________________________________________________
Jim Wilhite
Wilhite was an associate of Mack McClarty's former firm.
Wilhite died in a skiing accident on December 21, 1992.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
DEAD WOMEN
________________________________________________________
Suzanne Coleman
: Had affair with Clinton when he was attorney general.
Died of "suicide" with gunshot wound to the back of her
head. No autopsy performed. Was pregnant at time of her
death. Some say it was Clinton's.
________________________________________________________
Paula Grober
Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf
died: 12/9/92 - Died in a one-car accident with no known
witnesses. Her body was thrown 33 feet from the car. A
very attractive women, Paula traveled extensively with
Clinton from 1978 until her death.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
DEAD INVESTIGATORS
________________________________________________________
Paul Wilcher
Washington attorney investigating government corruption
died: 6/22/93 - Found dead on a toilet in his Washington
apartment. No cause of death was ever determined. - At
the time of his death, he was investigating connections
between the "October surprise" during the 1980 federal
election campaign and drug and gun-running out of Mena,
Arkansas, as well as the BATF assault on the Waco, Texas
Branch Davidians. Was planning on producing a television
documentary on his findings. He had delivered a 99-page
affidavit to Janet Reno threeweeks before his death.
________________________________________________________
Jon Parnell Walker
RTC investigator
Mysteriously fell to his death from an apartment balcony.
The same apartment which was alleged to have been a secret
getaway which Foster may have visited.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
COMMERCE DEPARTMENT DEATHS
________________________________________________________
Ron Brown
Former Chairman, DNC; Commerce Secretary
died: 5/3/96 - Ron Brown died along with 39 other people
when the T-43 (a converted 737 used by the Air Force)
carrying the group on a trip to Bosnia crashed while
approaching the Dubrovnik airport. On the verge of being
indicted and having stated publicly his willingness to
make a deal with prosecutors, Ron Brown's death brought
to an end the investigations into the Commerce Department.
(NOTE: Also belongs under dead fundraisers)
________________________________________________________
Barbera Wise
Commerce Department Staffer
died: 11/29/96 - As the scandals continued to swirl
around the Commerce Department, and most of all about
John Huang, one of Huang's associates, Barbera Wise, was
found dead in her locked office at the Department of
Commerce, partially nude and covered with bruises. No
cause of death has ever been announced. Oddly enough,
following the discovery of her body, Bill Clinton made an
unscheduled return to the White House from Camp David,
claiming he needed a book of poetry in order to complete
his inauguration speech.
________________________________________________________
Charles Meissner
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for International Economic
Policy.
died: UNK - Following Ron Brown's death, John Huang was
placed on a Commerce Department contract that allowed him
to retain his security clearence by Charles Meissner.
Shortly thereafter, Charles Meissner died in the crash of
a small plane.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
THE HENRY & IVES DEATHS
________________________________________________________
Kevin Ives & Don Henry
Initial cause of death was reported to be the result of
falling asleep on a railroad track in Arkansas on August
23, 1987. This ruling was reported by the State medical
examiner Fahmy Malak. Later it was determined that Kevin
died from a crushed skull prior to being placed
on the tracks. Don had been stabbed in the back. Rumors
indicate that they might have stumbled upon a Mena drug
operation.
________________________________________________________
Keith Koney
Keith had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. Died in a
motorcycle accident in July 1988 with unconfirmed reports
of a high speed car chase.
________________________________________________________
Keith McKaskle
McKaskle had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He was
stabbed to death in November 1988.
________________________________________________________
Gregory Collins
Greg had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He died
from a gunshot wound to the face in January 1989.
________________________________________________________
Jeff Rhodes
He had information on the deaths of Ives, Henry & McKaskle.
His burned body was found in a trash dump in April 1989.
He died of a gunshot wound to the head and there was some
body mutilation, leading to the probably speculation that
he was tortured prior to being killed.
________________________________________________________
James Milam
Milam had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was
decapitated. The state Medical examiner, Fahmy Malak,
initially ruled death due to natural causes.
________________________________________________________
Richard Winters
Winters was a suspect in the deaths of Ives & Henry. He
was killed in a "robbery" in July 1989 which was
subsequently proven to be a setup.
________________________________________________________
Jordan Kettleson
Kettleson had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He
was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup
in June 1990.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
MISC DEATHS
________________________________________________________
Stanley Heard
Chairman, National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory
Committee
Steve Dickson
- Counsel to Mr. Heard died: 9/10/93 - Both died in a
plane crash outside Dulles airport, after their aircraft,
rented after Heard's personal craft developed troubles,
crashed while attempting an emergency landing after
reporting a fire on board. - Heard, in addition to serving
on Clinton's advisory council, also personally treated
Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother.
________________________________________________________
Jim Wilhite
Vice Chairman, Arkla, Inc.
died: 12/21/92 - Died in a one-person skiing accident. -
Wilhite had extensive ties with Clinton and Mack McLarty,
with whom he visited by telephone just hours before his death.
________________________________________________________
Wounded or attempted murder:
_________________________________________________________________
Gary Johnson
: Not dead, but beaten near death and left for dead. Had
videotapes of Clinton breaking into Gennifer Flowers'
apartment. His tapes were taken.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
Dennis Patrick
: Court clerk. Had millions of dollars laundered through
his account at Lasater & Co without his knowledge. Four
attempts on his life.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
L.J. Davis
: Reporter investigating Clinton scandals. Attacked at
his hotel room in Little Rock. His notes were stolen.
________________________________________________________
Larry Nichols
: Former official at ADFA and author of "The Clinton
Chronicles." The man who broke many of the Clinton scandal
stories. Several attempts on his life.
_______________________________________________________
Sadly, the list goes on......
________________________________________________________
John Moore
Foster : House Committee Rejects Suicide
Congressmen Burton, Mica and Rorhbacher
and their combined staffs performed
a weeks-long investigation into the
death of Vincent Foster and the Fiske
report on that death.
Conclusion of US House Investigation on
Robert Fiske's Report on Vincent
Foster:
House Congressional Record, August
2, 1994 pg. H6624
"The bottom line is the Fiske report
is inaccurate, the Fiske report has
glaring holes in it, the Fiske report
as it is presently constituted, is not
worth the paper it is written on."
"They [4 Fiske forensic experts] based
their findings on the coroner's [M.E.]
report 9 months earlier and the coroner
[Dr. Beyer] has been proven on two
separate occasions to be incompetent as
far as autopsies are concerned."
"The man who found the body [CW] said the
hands were moved. He swears before God
that the hands were moved in a court
report [sic]. He swears the head was
moved. There were no fingerprints on the
gun. There were no fingerprints on the
suicide note."
"The counsel, Mr. Fiske, never checked the
carpet samples from his office [Foster's Office]
to see if those were the same ones on his clothes
[Foster]. He did not check his house [Foster's
D.C. home] to see if the carpet samples
were off his home."
Note that the above quote, dated 8/2/94 is
one year before the 1995 CBS "60 Minutes"
report by Mike Wallace on Vincent Foster's
murder in which it is wrongly claimed that
the blue carpet fibers from Mr. Foster's
clothing matched Mr. Foster's D.C. home
carpet. This was a blatant lie on the part of
Mr. Wallace and "60 Minutes".
Congressman Burton: "For any intelligent person
... to read this report [Fiske Foster report] and
to conclude that this is accurate, they just
must have their eyes closed. I just do not know
how they can believe that [Veracity of Fiske Foster
report]."
John Moore
Feds Give McVeigh Lawyer et. al. $10 Million
Yesterday June 3, 1997 on the nationally syndicated
"Bob Grant" radio show a guest revealed that the
Federal Government has contributed $10,000,000
to the McVeigh defense team headed by lawyer Stephen Jones.
Clearly this raises the issue of conflict of interest.
Could Mr. Jones fairly proceed against the Federal
Government on behalf of Mr. McVeigh yet still receive
a sweepstakes income from his courtroom opponents?
The court defense offered by Mr. Jones has been
characterized as weak by those for and against
Mr. McVeigh. Without doubt Mr. Jones provided an
extremely short defense. Mr. Jones has made no
issue of the swift demolition of the Murrah Building
which contained irreplaceable forensic evidence.
Mr. Jones did not object to the emminent explosives expert
Retired Air Force General Benton Partin's exclusion
from the court. Mr. Jones did not object to the
exclusion of General Partin's scientific report on
the Murrah bombing which stated the fertilizer-
fuel oil bomb was of insufficient energy to cause
all the damage done to the building. Mr. Jones did not
object to burial of the Murrah Building rubble or the
armed guards which prevented General Partin and other
explosives experts from examining that rubble.
Mr. Jones has received national attention achieved by
only a few superstar lawyers. Yet his reputation is
far from enhanced. He put on a weak defense and saw
his client convicted on all counts after a short jury
deliberation. His post-verdict demeanor is quiet and
passive. Certainly future clients will have no trouble
choosing between the ineffective Mr. Jones and legal tigers
such as Messrs. Spence, Cochran and Bailey. Mr. Jones
of course, does not need to worry about future clients.
In the haste to pour an ocean of hatred and revenge
on Mr. McVeigh the critical evidence leading to the
accomplices and/or real killers is being deliberately
hidden from the American people by a flawed justice
system. The largesse heaped on Mr. Jones by the same
Federal Government bent on secreting essential forensic
evidence can only create bonafide suspicions about
Mr. Jones and the process of American Justice.
Despite the wide proclaimations of the American media
justice has not been done. There is clear evidence
of additional explosives inside the Murrah Building.
Those responsible are not being investigated because
the evidence is now hidden. Killers remain free and the
bovine American media rejoice.
John Moore
OKC, Waco, Foster - Justice on the Brink
JUSTICE CAPITULATES
The death of Vincent Foster, the 80-odd deaths at Waco and
the 168 deaths in Oklahoma City have alarming parallels
which question the ability of American Justice to check
government abuse of power. The other Constitutional watchdog
of freedom, a free press, has in it's professional class
long ago accepted the role of lap dog to government spin
doctors. The pattern established in these three cases is
clear and should send an ominous warning to all Americans.
The stark result of these incidents is that government,
and it's agents, is exempt from the laws ruling other Americans.
This stands as one of history's great ironies that a nation
born in revolutionary victory over aristocratic oppression
creates a new aristocracy from it's own federal bureacracy.
In each of the fatal cases under consideration pertinent
evidence was arbitrarily dismissed. In each case the
evidence so dismissed lead directly to federal culpability.
In each case individuals partially or fully responsible
for the deaths have remained free and unprosecuted and
in two cases uninvestigated. In each case the major American
media have vigorously defended government action and
have remained silent on the evidence arbitrarily dismissed
by government.
OKLAHOMA CITY
The most recent case, Oklahoma City, is the most blatant
and egregious example of arbitrary justice. Literally tons
of essential forensic evidence were demolished and buried. The
Murrah Building, a vital and accurate concrete and steel
signature of the bomb(s) used, was razed a 5 weeks after
the blast and almost 2 years before trial. The speedy
destruction of the Murrah Building thus prevented many
experts from analyzing this important evidence which could
have substaintially affected the conclusion that an
ammonia-nitrate fuel-oil bomb alone collapsed the building.
As if to underline it's arbitrary power the Federal Government
moved the Murrah Building rubble to a fenced and guarded
area and then buried it in a deep hole. Experts were denied
any access to the buried rubble and the important forensic
clues therein. General Benton Partin, whose decades long
Air Force career was spent designing and testing new
bombs and explosives, was turned away from the Murrah
Building remnants by an armed guard.
General Partin investigated the Murrah Building before it's
quick destruction and removal. He prepared a report based
on his decades of experience which showed the fertilizer
bomb incapable of causing the collapse of the building. The
pressures developed by such a low-grade explosive are
not great enough to blast away the relatively sturdy walls
of the building given the distance between the Ryder truck
and the building. General Partin also determined that the
blast pattern on the building indicated other explosive
charges of much higher energy caused the building collapse.
It is impossible to escape the conclusion that the Murrah
Building was demolished and buried to hide critical
evidence.
During the trial of Mr. McVeigh a young British explosives
expert was used to bolster the truck bomb theory. This
expert did not study the building while it remained
standing. This expert did not examine the rubble in the
guarded hole. Yet General Partin, whose explosives career
eclipsed most if not all the lifetime of the young Briton,
was not allowed to give expert testimony.
Again we are faced with an unpleasant but inescapable
conclusion that General Partin was silenced to hide
significant evidence contrary to the official "lone bomber"
theory.
MEDIA SYCHOPHANTS
As can be expected the major media have proclaimed a
victory for "justice". The more misguided amongst the media
have offered the McVeigh verdict as vindication of the
American Justice system. Surely they claim O.J. Simpson was
an aberration. They are wrong, both are aberrations but of
different sorts, one deadly the other extremely deadly and
recurrent. Justice has not been done. In both cases murderers
have been set free. We know the murderer in the Simpson case.
We do not know and will not be permitted to know the
murderers in the Oklahoma City case.
The media provide comic relief but at the expense of their
credibility. An entire building of evidence, several stories
high, occupying a city block was removed and buried and they
never noticed! Justice is blind goes the saying and now
so is the press. Is there any more concrete (pun) evidence of
media sychophancy than this?
WACO
The Federal Government has steadfastly maintained that the
Branch Davidians committed mass suicide by setting the
ranch buildings on fire. Prior to the fire Federal agents
injected CS gas into the buildings. Shortly thereafter the
Davidian settlement exploded in flames. CS gas is known to
be flammable. A recent shootout in San Diego on May 2 1997 has
proven this again. Police shootouts in LA and elsehwere
further substantiate the flammability of CS gas. Despite this
the official government story says the Davidians set the
fires. The fact that gas lamps were used by the Davidians to
provide light after power was disconnected and that such
lamps would provide the necessary ignition source for
the gas choked buildings is denied without consideration.
Those responsible for this horrible incineration of men,
women and children remain in their official capacities. Some
have been promoted, others awarded commendations.
As in the OKC bombing the media have worked overtime
spreading the "mass suicide" theory. Any reference to the
flammability of CS Gas is ignored or ridiculed. The media
have given great sympathy and repetitive coverage to the
children killed in Oklahoma City. They have given scant
coverage and little sympathy to the 20 innocent children
burned to death by Federal wrecklessness. There have been
no mini-biographies of the little Davidians on TV. There
have been no sympathetic interviews with the families of
the burned Davidian children. The media do not have
sympathy but they know how and for whom to use it.
FOSTER
The Foster death is replete with examples of dismissed
evidence. Mr. Foster's body was first discovered without
a gun. The death scene was relatively bloodless. The
official X-Rays were marked as taken and then denied by
the examiner Dr. Beyer. The exit wound in the head is too
small for the caliber gun and bullet alleged to have
caused the wound. The victim's car did not appear in the
Ft. Marcy parking lot until after the body was discovered.
The victim's car keys were not found on the body at the
scene but were inexplicably found in the previously
searched pants pockets after the body was alone in the
morgue. The gun alleged to have caused death had no
connection to the victim or his family. The source and
ownership of the gun remains to this day unknown. The
death scene showed no biological evidence (bone,brain)
of explosive bullet exit from the head wound. The gun
had no fingerprints. International experts have judged
the alleged suicide note as a forgery. The list continues
and is well known.
As befits it's role of government propaganda organ the
major media have tried doggedly to convince America that
Mr. Foster shot himself. All evidence to the contrary is
obediantly ignored. Those who analyze the evidence are
labeled "kooks". Certain pliable journalists such as
Al Hunt, Jack Nelson, Susan Estrich, Mike Isikoff and
even Mike Wallace have stated the government has or will
conclude suicide soon. These reports have been ongoing
for two years. Yet the evidence against suicide has not
changed and Mr. Starr's report, released in October of '97
has offered no convincing evidence to overturn the homicide
evidence found at the scene.
If there is justice in the universe then there must be a
special place in hell for those journalists who lead their
fellow countrymen down the path to tyranny.
John Moore
Foster : Jerry Parks Murder Unresolved
On July 19, 1993, the day before his murder, Vincent
Foster made a phone call to Jerry Parks which was
overheard by Mr. Park's wife. Mr. Parks was a former
Arkansas policeman and security officer for Mr.
Clinton's first Presidential campaign.
Mr. Foster had retained Mr. Parks to record Mr. Clinton's
extracurricular diversions. Mr. Parks had compiled a
long list of Mr. Clinton's private activities. This
was the subject of their discussion on that fateful
July 19. Mr. Foster told Mr. Parks that he (Foster) was
going to turn the Mr. Clinton's folder over to Hillary
Clinton. Gerry Parks objected stating this was not a
good thing to do.
The next day July 20, 1993 Vincent Foster was found
dead in Ft. Marcy Park near Washington D.C. Mr. Parks
became very nervous on learning this. Two months later
in September of 1993 Jerry Parks was gunned down in
broad daylight in Arkansas. His records on Mr. Clinton
were taken and never seen again. His murderer(s) is still
at large and the Arkansas police have made no arrests
almost 4 years after the murder.
To this day Mr. Parks' son lives in fear for his life
and frequently changes residence.
THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR
AUGUST 1996
BILL CLINTON AND THE MURDER OF JERRY PARKS
The mystery surrounding the 1993 murder of Luther Gerald
Parks deepens. Parks, whose firm provided security to
Clinton campaign headquarters in 1992, was shot dead at a
rural intersection just west of Little Rock on September
23, 1993. The local police investigation into the murder has
focused on personal feuds -and ignored Parks's political
ties. As reported in the June TAS, in 1989 Parks received a
large SBA backed loan financed by the Arkansas Teachers
Retirement System, a sign of some political clout. Parks's
loan file, newly obtained by TAS, contains another surprise.
After making monthly payments on the loan for two and a
half years, Parks prepaid the $32,000 balance in June 1993,
three months before his murder. According to his widow,
this sudden- cash flow came from the first installment of
long-delayed payments from the Clinton campaign. It thus
appears that Parks, who was trying to collect a much
larger sum for his services, began to receive some of it
earlier than previously reported. Meanwhile, one would
think that large and unusual cash flows were relevant facts
in a murder investigation, but local police may not have
heard of them. When told of the ATRS loan, Tom James of
the Little Rock police Special Investigations Division said, "I
didn't know about that."
But someone else apparently did. Shortly after the murder,
Mrs. Parks says, a team of eleven agents from four
separate federal agencies showed up at her house to
inspect her late husband's papers. Why haven't local
homicide investigators been given access to these
records? Why didn't the pension funds officials come
forward to help in the investigation, or for that matter
Clinton campaign officials Dee Dee Myers and Betsey
Wright, whom Parks had dunned for his money?
Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr is looking into the
Parks murder. Does he have an obstruction of justice case
in the works?
John Moore
Ruddy's Book Casts Suspicion on FBI
Contrary to the opinion some have asserted Mr. Ruddy
finds many things suspicious about the FBI's
participation in the investigation of Vincent
Foster's death. Mr. Ruddy makes it very clear
that FBI agents Monroe and Colombell have violated
agency procedures.
On page 172 he cites their testimony before a Senate
hearing on July 29, 1994:
Sen. Dodd: It's your conclusion, as has been stated,
that Mr. Foster committed suicide. There is no doubt
in any of your minds about that ?
Monroe: No doubt.
Colombell: No doubt at all.
As Mr. Ruddy later mentions this is not the function
of the FBI. The FBI is an investigative agency which
is studious to avoid drawing conclusions which are
the realm of prosecutors.
Mr. Ruddy also notes (pg. 173) that most FBI agents do not
have homicide experience because murder is not a
Federal crime in most instances! Agent Monroe is
revealed to have spent most of his 20 year career
as a lecturer and administrator at the FBI Academy
in Quantico Virginia. Agent Colombell spent his
previous 5 years as a unit chief at headquarters
dealing with Freedom of Information requests.
Mr. Ruddy has exposed these two poseurs. Compared to
the real homicide experience of ex-NY cops Geberth,
Scalice and Santucci, Monroe and Colombell are novices.
Vernon Geberth has over 5,000 homicide investigations
to his record. The ex-NY and Brooklyn PD cops are
unanimous in their condemnation of the Fiske/FBI
handling of the Foster death.
Mr. Ruddy further blasts the actions of Agents Colombell
and Monroe on pages 190 and 191:
"Knowlton ... told the Telegraph that agents Monroe
and Colombell went to extraordinary lengths to convince
him that the Honda he saw in the lot was a blue one
of recent vintage. Knowlton insists that the car was
an older model and that it was BROWN" [my emphasis]
"Monroe and Colombell, interviewed CW, who also claims
that he was badgered into altering his statement."
Later on the same page Mr. Ruddy levels charges
against the FBI actions in general:
"During proceedings led by prosecutor Miquel Rodriguez
the grand jury received testimony at odds with almost
every FBI witness statement."
"Hall [paramedic Todd Hall] said his FBI statements
misrepresented what he told them."
Mr. Ruddy has many other complaints with the FBI.
Clearly Mr. Ruddy has not whitewashed the FBI's
involvement in the Foster investigation. Those who
contend otherwise have not read the book or are
engaged in disinformation.
John Moore
Ruddy Suggests Gun was "Planted", FBI Complicity
Mr. Ruddy builds a strong case for doubting that Mr. Foster
had any contact with the alleged suicide weapon, a .38
caliber, black,1913 Colt Army revolver, previous to his
death. Mr. Ruddy shows evidence that indicates there
was no gun when the body was first discovered. Later
after Park Police arrived it is shown that two guns may
have been "planted" on the body. The first gun was
apparently a semi-automatic of 9mm or .45 caliber
which was then swapped for the 1913 Colt.
Mr. Ruddy provides clear evidence that FBI witness
statements were materially altered to support the official
story of a single alleged suicide gun, a .38 caliber
black Colt Army revolver.
Those who have followed the discussions in news group
alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater will not
be surprised at Mr. Ruddy's charges. In particular his
conclusions are consistent with "Foster : Proof of
Homicide", "Foster : Magical Evidence" and "Foster : CW's
Sworn Testimony -- No Gun".
Page 54:
"The first witness to find Vince Foster's body, the man
identified as CW, claimed he saw no gun in either of
Foster's hands when he discovered the body. CW has repeated
this in numerous interviews and in an affadavit made to
several members of Congress. On July 28, 1994, CW told
Congressman Burton of Indiana, 'There was no gun in the
hand. His--both palms were face up, thumbs out to the side...
I did not see a gun next to the body.' "
"The weapon, an old Colt revolver... The Colt company refers
inquiries about such guns to Larry Wilson, who is the
foremost authority on antique Colt weapons. From my [Ruddy]
description Wilson told me [Ruddy] it sounded like a
'drop gun', an old, untraceable gun left at a crime scene
to confuse investigators."
Page 194:
"For example, in the handwritten notes of the FBI inter-
view with Fairfax EMT worker RIchard Arthur, he was
emphatic--more so than his [FBI] statement implies--that he
saw both a wound on Foster's neck and an automatic
pistol in Foster's hand, not the Colt revolver police
later found."
Page 195:
"Agents [FBI] were apparently concerned enough about
Arthur's statements to return to interview him a second
time, focusing on the gun. Again the handwritten notes
show that Arthur was certain the gun in Foster's hand
was not a revolver but an automatic pistol:
[Arthur Statement]
Gun under right hand, tucked under right leg
A pistol not a revolver..."
Page 195:
Later on the same page Ruddy reports that the FBI FD 302
[FD 302 is the formal report compiled from notes] turns
Arthur's statement 180 degrees:
"Instead his [Arthur's] official statement [FD 302] reads:
'Arthur was of the opinion that if the weapon was in fact
a revolver, the cylinder quite possibly could have been
covered-up.' This line in his official statement totally
undermines Arthur's clear recollection..."
Astute readers will recall that the same subterfuge was
applied to CW's alleged statement in the Fiske report. Cw
is there described as failing to see a gun that "might"
have been "hidden" by foliage.
Page 52:
"If Arthur is correct, the gun found in Foster's hand may
have been switched sometime after the police arrived."
"Arthur was emphatic about this, noting the distinguishing
characteristics of semiautomatics and revolvers."
"What little photographic evidence remains of the death
scene appears to show that at some point the gun was
moved or switched after the Park Police arrived."
Page 53:
"Park Police spokesman Major Richard Hines had said in
January 1994 that ... the gun [Ft. Marcy .38 Colt] was
never positively identified by the family."
"Yet documents obtained by the Fiske investigators show conclusively
that the gun [Ft. Marcy .38 Colt] was not owned by Foster's
father and had not been part of his father's collection."
"The Foster children [adults] too, said it was not a gun
owned by their father."
John Moore
Foster - Boorda : Disturbing Parallels
The death in 1996 of Admiral Jeremy Boorda has
shown a disturbing and unnoticed parallel with
the death of former White House Counsel Vincent
Foster.
Each man appeared calm, normal and in
good attitude on the morning of his death.
Each man departed his office at the begining of
the afternoon.
Each man allegedly used a .38
caliber handgun to committ suicide.
Each man died in the early afternoon in an open
area yet there were no witnesses.
Each man was found on Federal Government property
within proximity to Washington D.C..
Each death surprised and shocked friends
and family.
Neither man had a history of psychiatric problems,
depression or suicidal tendencies.
Neither was considered clinically
depressed by their personal physicians.
After death the press characterized each man
as depressed.
In each case press reports of depression were
unsupported by medical evidence.
Each man left an alleged suicide note exonerating
superiors and associates.
The press declared each death a suicide
long before official investigations concluded.
Each man allegedly committed suicide over a trifling
incident.
Each man was eulogized as dedicated to national
service, of the highest integrity whose real
reason for suicide "will probably never be known".
In each case the President attended the funeral.
In each case the wife and family recieved a long
private meeting with the President.
In each case the wife and family remained publicly
silent and unquestioned by the press.
Each man was an appointee of the Presidents' administration.
John Moore
Ruddy Finds No Gray Car Prior to 6:00 P.M.
Mr. Ruddy touches on the gray car question in
several places in his book "The Strange Death
of Vincent Foster". When examined it is clear
that sightings of a gray Honda in the Ft. Marcy
lot prior to 6:00 p.m. July 20 1993 are not
valid and such is Mr. Ruddy's emphasis.
The Gray Honda belonging to Foster is important
because it did not appear in the Ft. Marcy lot
until hours after Mr. Foster's death. Fiske and
Starr claim that Mr. Foster drove the gray Honda
to Ft. Marcy prior to committing suicide. Clearly
this is not possible if the gray Honda did not
appear until after 6:00 p.m. as all the evidence
shows.
In brief Mr. Ruddy explains that Patrick Knowlton
was deliberately misquoted by the FBI as having
seen a car which matched the decription of Foster's.
The Nissan couple (Mark and Judy) likewise were
contradictory in their statements to the FBI and
stated in their Park Police report that the
Honda wasn't Foster's. Finally EMT Gonzalez in
an interview with Ruddy in 1994 mentions a
gray Honda in the lot on his arrival after
6:00 p.m..
The Ruddy account of the gray Honda is consistent
with the previous Foster post "Magical Evidence".
pg 190:
Ruddy makes it clear that Knowlton did not see
Foster's gray Honda but an older, brown Honda:
"Motorist Patrick Knowlton, the first to spot
what Fiske identified as Foster's Honda in
Ft. Marcy Park, has subsequently claimed that
FBI agents "lied" in compiling his official
statement."
"Knowlton, whose friends say he has a keen
memory, also told the Telegraph [of London]
that agents Monroe and Colombell went to
extraordinary lengths to convince him that the
Honda he saw in the lot was a blue one of
recent vintage. Knowlton insists that the car
was an older model and that it was brown."
pg 15:
Ruddy notes that it is the Fiske report which
contradicts Knowlton's version of the car lot:
"The FISKE [emphasis] report noted that at about
4:30 p.m. a motorist, Patrick Knowlton, spotted
Foster's Honda in the lot of Ft. Marcy Park.
Knowlton remembered it as having Arkansas plates.
pg 41:
Here Ruddy shows the Nissan couple contradicte
themselves on the ownership of the Honda. First
he cites their FBI statements:
"According to the couple's FBI statements, they
had driven into Ft. Marcy Park shortly after
5:00 p.m. on the day of Foster's death, where
they saw two men--neither of whom was Foster--
around and even inside Foster's car shortly
before his body was found. The female witness,
identified as 'Judy' said she drove her Nissan
into the lot with her friend 'Mark' seated
next to her."
Later Ruddy compares this to their Park Police
statements:
"The statements Mark and Judy had given to the
FBI are at odds with the earlier Park Police
statement. That statement had two men in and
around two different cars, not Foster's."
pg 27:
Ruddy interviewed EMT Sergeant George Gonzalez
in January of 1994. He is the first witness
to recall the gray Honda. Sergeant Gonzalez
arrived in the park after 6:00 p.m. July 20,
1993.
"Once Gonzalez's paramedic truck arrived in
Fort Marcy's parking lot, he saw two cars: a
gray Honda to his immediate left and a white
compact car, possibly of Japanese make, toward
the rear of the lot."
John Moore
Ruddy, Experts,Witnesses & Evidence Dispute Starr Head Wound
Mr. Starr's report has accepted the discredited
theory of a blood pool at the scene of Mr. Foster's
death in Ft. Marcy park on July 20, 1993. Several
witnesses, including the medical examiner Dr. Haut,
contradict Starr's (and Fiske's) claim of a blood
pool.
Mr. Ruddy provides analysis by expert homicide
detectives and pathologists which completely
contradict the Starr claim of death in the park
by gunshot.
In a startling review of the evidence Mr. Ruddy
completely contradicts the dubious claim by Dr.
Lee that blood splatter from the alleged head
wound was found at the scene. Dr. Lee, who came to
the investigation a year and a half after the death,
claims to see blood splatter on vegetation in
underexposed photos from the crime scene. Dr. Lee
is contradicted by all officials at the scene.
As did his predecessor Mr. Fiske, Mr. Starr
continues to promote the demonstrably false Foster
suicide conclusions.
Regular reader's to alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
will note that Mr. Ruddy's conclusions are consistent
with previous posts on Foster such as: "Blood Pool
Hoax", "Proof of Homicide", "Magical Evidence" and
"Starr's Secret Report".
The following quotes are from Mr. Ruddy's excellent
book on the Foster death, "The Strange Death of
Vincent Foster".
Readers are encouraged to buy the book for a complete
examination of Mr. Starr's repudiation of the truth.
pg 49 - 50:
"Those who first came upon Foster's body--the man
driving the van [CW], Gonzales, Arthur, Ashford,
Fornshill and others--saw little or no blood. Nor
did anyone, including the medical examiner and the
lead police investigator, see blood on the vegetation
in the immediate area where his [Foster's] head lay.
And the gun itself appeared clean."
"As stories playing up these inconsistencies appeared
in the papers, the Park Police scrambled to respond.
First, the claimed that the emergency workers had
simply failed to see a large pool of blood on the
ground under the body, something that became apparent
only later when the body was rolled over in the
presence of the police investigators and the Fairfax
County medical examiner."
pg 50:
"This story collapsed after EMT Ashford claimed he saw
no blood when he lifted the body. And Ashford wasn't
alone. Lieutenant William Bianchi was serving as
Ashford's supervisor that night at the park. He
stated in a recorded interview that there was
'not a lot' of blood when the body was lifted from
the ground and placed on a gurney."
"On page thirty-six of his report, Fiske states:
'At approximately 7:40 P.M., Dr. Donald Haut, the
Fairfax County medical examiner, arrived at the scene
of the body. At that point, Foster's body rolled was
rolled over and those present observed a large pool
of blood located where Foster's head had been. ...' "
"But Dr. Haut's own version contradicts this. When
interviewed in 1995, Haut, who was present when
Foster's body was rolled over and the exit wound
examined, said there was 'not a hell of a lot' of
blood on the ground. In fact he said most of the
blood had 'congealed' on the back of Foster's head."
pg 46 - 47:
"two former New York City homicide experts [Scalise
and Santucci] question this scenario [Fiske wound
explaination]. They argue that the exit wound should
have created a jet stream of blood, brain matter,
bone and other tissue as the bullet emerged from the
back of the skull. Had Foster shot himself on the
slope (as Fiske claimed) with the exit wound at the
top and back of his head (as noted in the autopsy),
the blood and other matter should have been evident
in the area behind him. Yet of the twenty officials
on the scene no one noted--as the body lay on the
ground--and blood on the vegetation around the body.
The Park Police report and that of the Fairfax County
medical examiner on the scene, Dr. Donald Haut,
specifically state no blood was observable on the
vegetation."
pg 47:
"Even the goriest movies and TV programs understate
the blood from a close range gunshot death. Experienced
paramedics are much more realistic in what they expect
to find. Sergeant Gonzales had been quite emphatic
when he told me [Ruddy] that a gunshot to the head
should produce a "mess" or "pork brains for breakfast".
Surprisingly, he observed only a trickle of blood
draining from Foster's mouth."
"Officer Fornshill also noted the very small amount
of blood at the scene, an amount he called consistent
with someone who had bitten his lip."
pg 48:
"According to Giorgio [NYPD Detective Jerry Giorgio]
the first thing detectives look for in a murder/suicide
investigation is massive blood loss. If it exists,
detectives can eliminate any idea the death was caused
by other means, or that the person had been killed
elsewhere and the body moved. If there is not much
blood after a gunshot to the head, detectives consider
the possibility the gunshot might have been a cover
for a homicide by poisoning of some other method."
"When asked what a detective would typically expect
in such a case, Giorgio said that with a .38 gunshot
to the mouth/head '...there's tremendous amounts of
blood, blood all over the place, it would be a real
mess' ".
"Dr. Richard Mason, a pathologist who specializes in
gunshot trauma, and Dr Martin Fachler, former head
of the U.S. Army's Wound Ballistics Laboratory, were
asked to comment on this sort of suicide. Both
explained that since the head is engorged with blood,
even if the heart had stopped instantanneously blood
would have flowed freely from the mouth and not
trickled out from one side as appeared to be the case
here."
"According to Dr. Mason, the medical examiner for
Santa Cruz, California, the heart works on its own
independent electroimpulse system and does not
stop just because the brain is disabled."
John Moore
Death of Ex-CIA Director Colby Leaves Unanswered Questions
By all accounts William Colby, the former director of the CIA, was
a meticulous man. Mr. Colby allegedly accidentally died during a
solo canoeing excursion near his home in 1996. Mr. Colby
is another in the strange deaths of 1996 which include Admiral
Boorda, Commerce Secretary Brown and Commerce employee Barbara
Wise.
Here are some interesting questions about Mr. Colby's death which
remain to be addressed in the US press:
1) Wife says he never goes in the canoe without a life vest,
yet the body is found without a life vest. No life vest was
ever retrieved. Strangely Mr. Colby had no shoes when discovered
after his fatal excursion. Like the missing vest no shoes
were ever retrieved.
2) Wife says to Reuters that her husband is in excellent
physical health and has survived much worse conditions.
3) The AP reports the wife was notified by Mr. Colby of his
outing on the canoe yet the wife denies having made such a
statement.
4) Mr. Colby is not know to have any health problems and was
an experienced survivalist as demonstrated by his OSS
experience behind German lines in the dead of winter. Yet
he falls in the water and dies of hypothermia. According to
current reports he was alive at the time he entered the
water. The waters in the vicinity have not been described
as having particularly swift currents.
5) After over a week of searching the body is then found
within 100(?) yards of the canoe which was discovered on
the first day.
6) Mr. Colby left the house with all utilities on. As described
before this seems inconsistent with either a meticulous
personality or someone leaving for a canoeing trip.
7) Mr. Colby was a contributing editor of a newsletter,
Strategic Investment, which has been highly vocal and
suspicious of Mena and the Foster murder.
8) Mr. Colby is known to have many enemies in and out of the
government. The NY Post records one government individual
on hearing of Colbys' death saying it was "35 years too
late". Other such references are given in the NY Post.
During the mid-70's as CIA Director Mr. Colby was regarded
by many agency insiders as too cooperative with the late
Senator Frank Church and his investigation.
In addition to the above the autopsy has concluded at least three
possibilities:
9) Mr. Colby may have died of a stroke
10) Mr. Colby may have died of a heart attack
11) Mr. Colby had hardening of the arteries.
12) Mr. Colby may have died from a combination of 9 & 11 OR
10 & 11
If Mr. Colby died of a heart attack then he did not die of a
stroke. If Mr. Colby died of a stroke then he did not die of a
heart attack. The autopsy did not say he died simultaneously of
BOTH causes. The physical damage to the body is very different
for stroke and heart attack. Most obviously, a heart attack
results in damage to the heart and a stroke results in damage to
the brain. The purpose of an autopsy is to determine which
possibility is true. The autopsy did not do this ----- SO what
the M.E. has really said is that he doesn't know what killed
Mr. Colby!
Curiously the press has yet to question this ambiguous and
contradictory conclusion.
A rather weak defense has been offered that 8 days of water
exposure have left the body in a state difficult to determine the
cause of death. This may be a reflection of the ability of the
local medical examiner. Even if such a remark is generally true
amongst coroners it still leaves the cause of death unknown and
requires further investigation given the nature of Mr. Colby's
career.
These questions must be answered if the controversy about Mr.
Colby's death is to be resolved.
John Moore
Starr's Report Fails to Address Foster Controversy
October 1997
IC Kenneth Starr has concluded his investigation
into the death of Vincent Foster. The man whom
Mr. Starr charged with the investigation, Steven
Parker, a Memphis prosecutor, has made no comment.
Mr. Starr has determined suicide in Mr. Foster's
death after the advice of experts and their
analysis.
Mr. Starr said the evidence points only to suicide.
He could find no evidence of any other crime.
Those informed of the Foster evidence can only gasp
and wonder at such an unlikely result. We should
at this point be candid. Mr. Starr is not telling
the truth. We know this because Mr. Fiske released
much of the Foster evidence and that evidence
completely contradicts the possibility of suicide.
Mr. Starr has not cited any part of the evidence
which led to the suicide conclusion. He merely
proclaims the determination on the basis of his
authority and unspecified "experts".
We have an interesting conflict. On the one hand
there is reason and evidence, on the other there
is only authority. Which should be trusted? Imagine
putting this question to one of the Founders of
this Republic. What would they say? Perhaps we
need only look to a recent President and follow
his wise dictum -- "Trust but verify". To which
the corollary must be added -- "No verification,
no trust". Mr. Starr and his supporters in the
Federal Government and the national press ask for
our trust while in the act of a great lie. Trust is
not a thing that is given but rather earned. Clearly
in this instance it has not been earned but unearned.
Many in Federal service and the media see their calling to
protect the citizens from themselves. Much as a babysitter
would not inform an child about matches our Federal
protectors believe it unwise to tell us of assassi-
nations. We are a volatile and ignorant lot, as they
see us. Who knows what mischief we might do? This
cannot be allowed. Murders and assassinations can
be allowed but public knowledge of them cannot be
allowed. This is the only way to preserve our
government and it's freedom -- or so their amoral
logic convolutes in backroom debate.
Many thoughtless citizens fall for this ruse. We can
hear the new Orwellian foundations of government,
"Ignorance is Freedom", "Knowledge is Subversion".
"Murder if you must, but do not tell me. Take my
neighbor but do not take me." These citizens fail to
see the fatal contradiction in their borrowed "wisdom".
There is only one way to maintain freedom and that
is to confront this insidious threat and punish those
responsible. This is the act of an informed people that
alarms some in Washington's high places. Our government
and Constitution are more than the sum of 535
scoundrels and numerous bureaucracies. If each of the
535 were replaced tomorrow the nation would proceed
quite well despite their pompous protestations.
This is the real fear in Washington.
Mr. Starr has not done the right thing but he has
done the expected thing, the gutless thing. He has
subverted justice to temporary political loyalty.
He has done one other thing. He has shown us that
the current occupants of government are incapable of
solving the crisis.
John Moore
Assassination of Marine Lt. Colonel & Others
Admiral Jerry Boorda, Chief Of Naval Operations, was found
dead on Thursday May 16 1996 at a Washington D.C. Naval
installation. Originally reported as a shotgun
blast it was later determined to be a .38 which hit Admiral Boorda
in the chest. Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham of San Diego,
former Naval Aviator and friend of Admiral Boorda, had spoken to
the Admiral on the morning of his death. He reported the Admiral
was in good spirits and they discussed several topics of Naval
funding and the movement of Marine Helicopters to Miramar Naval
Air Station in San Diego. Representative Cunningham gave no
indication of psychological problems affecting his friend and
expressed surprise and sadness at the passing of the Admiral.
In 1991 a lower ranking Naval Officer, a Marine Corps Lt. Colonel
Sabow, was found shotguned to death in his home at El Toro
Marine Corps Air Station in California. The Lt. Colonel had no
psychological history of depression or suicide attempts and
was in a positive state of mind according to his wife. She noted
a large bulbous swelling near the right ear suggesting the
Colonel had been struck before the blast tore open the back
of his head. The death was ruled a suicide but the family has
since re-opened the case because of their strong disagreement
with the verdict. The evening prior to his death the Lt. Colonel
had threatened to release information on narcotics shipments
using military aircraft at El Toro.
Note the similarities between the following article the
bungled Sabow investigation and that of Vincent Foster. Other
Military assassinations are mentioned.
Excerpt from:
"Tangled investigations leave trail of questions"
by David Zucchino
PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER
December 22, 1993
The last time Sally Sabow saw her husband alive, he was deep into
his usual morning routine. (Lt. ?)Col. James Sabow had risen early,
showered, shaved, had coffee and settled in to watch CNN coverage
of the Gulf War.
It was Jan. 22, 1991.
About 8:30 a.m., Sally Sabow recalls, she drove off to morning Mass,
leaving her husband sitting contendedly in front of the TV inside
their military quarters on F Street at the marine Corps Naval Air
Station in El Toro, Calif.
An hour later, Sabow says, she returned home to discover her
husband lying dead in the back yard, part of his head blown away by
a blast from a 12-gauge shotgun.
Two weeks later, still numb with grief and shock, Sabow was stunned
yet again by a development that has since dominated her life: The
Navy concluded that Col. Sabow, 51, despondent over an allegation
that he had transported personal items on military aircraft, had
committed suicide.
It didn't make sense to her. Jim was determined to prove his
innocence, Sabow says. The night before he died, she recalls, she
had watched her husband vow to a fellow officer to fight the
charges in military court. She heard him threaten to expose alleged
drug trafficking on the base.
Beyond that, Sally Sabow says, the evidence she had seen suggested
murder, not suicide.
She had seen a lump half the size of a baseball behind her husband's
right ear, as if he had been bludgeoned.
The television was on "mute." She knew Jim used the mute button
only when he has to step away to answer the door.
And the two family dogs were locked in the garage. Her husband
never locked up the dogs, Sabow says, unless someone came to the
back door.
Now, almost three years later, Jim Sabow's widow and his brother
say their experts have found evidence proving the colonel was
murdered. They accuse the military of covering up a homicide,
mishandling evidence, rearranging the death scene, and plotting to
discredit the family. They maintain that Sabow was
killed because he planned to expose the alleged use of military
aircraft to smuggle drugs.
"My brother was murdered -- and I can prove it," said John David
Sabow, a South Dakota neurosurgeon. "I know who killed him. The
military knows who killed him. And they know I know. It will all
come out."
For other families of dead servicemen, there are nagging fears that
the truth never will come out. Because the military has so
mishandled investigations into the deaths of their loved ones, they
say, they may never know how the men died.
Worse yet, the Sabows and a few other families say, killers have
gotten away when murders were wrongly ruled suicide.
Forty families have told THE INQUIRER that the military deceived
them and improperly investigated the cases of servicemen whose
deaths were ruled suicides or accidentally self-inflicted. The
newspaper's review of the case found a pattern of perfunctory and
incomplete investigations in which evidence was mishandled or
destroyed.
In some cases, lab tests were not performed. Blood and tissue
samples were not analyzed. Fingerprints were not taken. Evidence
was thrown away. Leads were not pursued. People were not
questioned.
With each passing day, trails grow colder and witnesses' memories
grow faint. As the 40 cases lie closed in military files,
families' demands for new investigations grow more urgent.
<snip>
The death of Col. Sabow was ruled suicide two weeks after Sally
Sabow found his body.
It was too quick, Sabow's brother says. The fingerprint, blood and
gunshot residue tests weren't back from the lab yet. It seemed to
David Sabow that the Navy was eager to lose out his brother's case.
He suspected the military was hiding something.
Sabow decided to have the entire case investigated. He hired Gene
Wheaton, a former Army and Air Force investigator who had supervised
hundreds of investigations, and Ted L. Gunderson, the former chief
of the FBI office in Los Angeles. He also hired forensic specialists
to study the autopsy and crime scene photos.
What they found convinced Sabow that his brother had been murdered
by someone on the military who feared the colonel would reveal drug
trafficking via military aircraft.
Sabow said his forensic experts have concluded that the shotgun blast
blew away his brother's brain stem, instantly ceasing all breathing.
Yet the experts found evidence that Sabow breathed blood into his
lungs for four to five minutes before he was shot.
That evidence, combined with the large bump on Sabow's head, led the
experts to a conclusion: The colonel was bludgeoned from behind by a
right-handed person, knocking him unconscious, and then shot in the
head minutes later.
That conclusion is supported, David Sabow said, by the position of
his brother's hands. If the colonel had shot himself, he said, his
arms would have flown out and away from the body. But the arms were
folded in a prayer position in front of Sabow's face, Sabow said.
Beyond that, investigator Wheaton contends, the crime scene was
rearranged to fit a suicide scenario. Wheaton said the first
investigators on the scene told him Col. Sabow was found lying a
few feet away from a lawn chair. Crime scene photos show the chair
lying on top of Sabow, according to Wheaton.
The photos also show open shotgun ammunition boxes lying on the
garage floor. Wheaton says investigators told him that the boxes
were found closed and stored inside a cabinet.
"They rearranged the scene so their reports would flow properly,"
Wheaton said. "They dummied it up. They thought the suicide made
more sense that way."
Although the colonel was not wearing gloves, the Naval Criminal
Investigative Services (NCIS) report said no fingerprints were found
on the gun or the two shells loaded into it. Moreover, Wheaton said,
an agent told him that two investigators handled the gun with their
bare hands, tainting the evidence.
Sally Sabow noticed that her husband wasn't wearing his glasses when
he died. He was extremely far-sighted, she said, and could not see
up close without them.
So how, she wondered, did he select 12-gauge shotgun shells from a
jumble of boxes, buried in the garage cabinet, that also contained
16-gauge and 20-gauge shells?
The NCIS said no fingerprints were found on the ammunition box. Yet
Wheaton said an investigator told him that another investigator
handled the box with his bare hands.
And, according to David Sabow, the breech of the shotgun was devoid
of blood. If Sabow had put the barrel to his mouth and fired, as the
NCIS report said, the breech should have been spattered with
"blowback" blood and brain tissue.
In October, the Sabows filed a civil complaint in federal court
against the government and military, seeking damages for emotional
distress and alleging a conspiracy to conceal circumstances of
Sabow's death.
The government, which has until mid-January to formally respond, has
not yet done so, according to Sabow's attorney. A spokeswoman for
the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles did not return calls
seeking comment.
The suit alleges that the military conspired to "oppress, threaten,
harass, coerce, intimidate and inflict emotional distress" on the
Sabows. It charges that El Toro commanders plotted to portray
Col. Sabow as a "crook" and "felon," and prepared a letter to the
South Dakota Board of Medical Examiners accusing David Sabow of
misconduct.
According to the suit:
Investigators failed to cordon off the death scene and left Sabow's
body exposed and uncovered for about seven hours on a warm afternoon.
They failed to properly "bag" Sabow's hands to preserve evidence that
he fired the shotgun.
They stuck the shotgun into three paper bags instead of proper
evidence bags, possibly tainting the evidence.
They failed to check beneath Sabow's fingernails for possible
evidence that he struggled with an attacker.
They failed to preserve Sabow's organs and tissue samples.
They misquoted witnesses to bolster a suicide scenario.
"You'd do a better job as a criminal investigator if you watched old
PERRY MASON reruns," said Sabow's lawyer, Paul Copenbarger.
According to the suit, Col. Sabow's military attorney was quoted by
the NCIS as saying the colonel was "desperate" when the two men
spoke the morning Sabow died. The lawyer later said he actually
told the NCIS that Sabow "exhibited the normal anxiety associated
with being under investigation, but did not appear irrational or
desperate," the suit said.
The NCIS quoted Sally Sabow as saying she saw a "look of terror" in
Sabow's eyes the morning her died. She denies saying that.
"If I had the slightest hint that he was despondent, I would never
have left him alone," she said. "He was anxious about the
allegations, of course, but he was perfectly functional and normal."
Col. Sabow's commander expressed doubt that Sabow would kill himself
over minor allegations that a military plane in which he rode
delivered stereo speakers and posters to his son at an Air Force
base. Similar charges were successfully brought against the top two
commanders at El Toro, where Sabow was third-in-command until he was
suspended 10 days before his death.
One of the commanders told the NCIS: "It is illogical that Colonel
Sabow would take his life solely on the basis of events in the very
early stages of investigation."
The Sabows say they have spent more than $100,000 trying to prove
that Jim Sabow did not kill himself. They say he was a
straight-arrow Marine, a proud officer and Vietnam War hero who
exemplified the best of the Corps.
It pains them, they say, to be deceived and bullied by the very
Marine Corps that Jim Sabow loved so deeply.
"The disgust I now feels towards the military is overwhelming,"
David Sabow said. "What they've done to this family is sickening."
Sally Sabow says she feels betrayed.
"I used to be one of the most patriotic people in the world," she
said. "Now I won't pledge the flag. I won't sing the national
anthem. My faith in my country is destroyed."
John Moore
Commerce Dept.: Wise Death Unresolved
UPDATE 15: As of April 4, 1998 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
Commerce Department almost 1 1/2 years ago. Ms Wise's
strange death occurred only a few months after
that of her boss, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
No progress reports have been issued by the police
investigators on the Wise death for over a year.
UPDATE 15: As of February 27, 1998 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
Commerce Department over 1 year ago. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for almost a year.
UPDATE 14: As of January 31, 1998 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
Commerce Department over 1 year ago. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for almost a year.
UPDATE 13: As of December 27, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
Commerce Department over 1 year ago. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for almost a year.
UPDATE 12: As of December 13, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
Commerce Department over 1 year ago. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 11: As of November 20, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 10: As of November 14, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 9: As of November 6, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 8: As of October 23, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 7: As of October 9, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 6: As of September 25, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 5: As of August 29, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 4: As of August 21, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 3: As of August 14, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 2: As of August 8, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
UPDATE 1: As of July 31, 1997 the death of
Barbara Wise remains unsolved. No progress
reports have been issued by the police
investigators for several months.
-----------------------------------------
Barbara Wise was found dead at her office
in the Commerce Department Office Building
during the Thanksgiving Holiday 1996. Her
body was half naked and bruised.
The investigation of her Washington D.C.
death has been silent on it's progress or
conclusions. Attempts to discover police
advances in the suspicious death have been
rebuffed or dismissed.
Ms. Wise had worked for the Federal Government
for 14 years. She was a long time employee
of the Commerce Department. Some have
suggested a connection between her death
and illegal Chinese Communist contributions
to the DNC and/or the death of former
Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
For 17 months the strange death of Barbara
Wise has remained unsolved. No partial
results have been issued by the police.
John Moore
Mr. Clinton Gives a War but Nobody Comes
February 27, 1998
New Hope
After years of indifference America finally reacted
honorably and rationally to the Clinton Administra-
tion. Last week's town hall meeting in Ohio released
a flood of heated and cool attacks on the three
Clinton administration pointmen, Berger, Cohen
and Albright. Ms. Albright in particular was taken
aback by the objections of the citizen questioners.
Network news anchors present to moderate the public
discussion were helpless against the vocal
opposition.
Mission Undefined
Despite the stated purpose of the "town hall"
broadcast, seen by millions around the world, the
mission of the proposed war act and the threat to
the United States countered by such massive violence
remained unexplained. Neither Messrs. Cohen or
Berger offered anything but stock generalities
while urging Americans to slaughter distant
citizens of a sovereign nation. Several days later,
last Sunday, on Fox News Mr. Berger was
asked the question, "When will Iraq attack the
United States?". Mr. Berger reacted with a
telling and honest confusion. He stalled for a
few seconds and then asked, "What?". Not only did
Mr. Berger have no answer for the question it was
clear he had never considered the possibility! In
other words the threat to the United States by
Iraq is so insignificant to non-existant that it
never surfaced in his briefings by the administration.
Clearly even the Clinton administration sees no
threat to the United States by Iraq.
Act of War Misplaced
In the last quarter of 1996 Red China threatened to
launch a nuclear missle at Los Angeles. This was
in reaction to US support for the free and
republican island nation of Taiwan which the
Communist Chinese seek to take by force. This
extremely aggressive Communist threat to the
continental United States was all but ignored
by President Clinton and his advisors. In a
despicable lapse of judgement, bordering on treason,
Mr. Clinton and Democrat Party leaders knowingly
accepted large campaign contributions from
questionable Chinese Americans with ties to the
same Communist government which threatened nuclear
attack on America. Unlike the depleted Iraqi
military, Red China has a disciplined and well
stocked military machine. President Clinton has
resurrected his draftdoger legacy by placing
America at the feet of her mighty enemies while
at the throat of the weak.
Republicans Defy Understanding
Senator Trent Lott has voiced suspicion about the
particulars of the Iraq agreement produced by UN
Secretary Kofi Annon. Mr. Lott has spent time
reviewing the document and thinks it is inadequate.
Senator Lott raised no issue over the President's
unilateral and dictatorial act of war against
another nation. Mr. Lott did not raise questions
to the American people about missing Congressional
approval. Republicans would be in better stead
if they spent more time reading their Constitutional
responsibilities and less time on Mr. Annon.
The People Lead
Republicans have joined Democrats and concluded that
the Iraq agreement has enough substance to
prevent immediate military action. The press is
eager to spin the story of an eleventh hour
rescue by the UN Secretary. Yet this is not the truth,
and the American public knows it. The truth is that
a concerted and nobel effort by an outraged citizenry
de-railed the best efforts of the President and his
powerful elite to engage America in an unnecessary
and murderous act on the captive citizens of a
foreign nation.
John Moore
Hillary and Babbitt Join in Conspiracy Theories
January 31 1998
Tuesday of this week First Lady Hillary Clinton
attacked a "right-wing conspiracy" to destroy the
presidency of her husband. Despite little if any
evidence for the conspiracy none of the media
representatives at hand questioned the First Lady.
Following Mrs. Clinton's lead Interior Secretary
Bruce Babbitt invoked the same "right-wing conspiracy"
as the reason for his uncomfortable presence before
Congressman Burton's investigative committee.
There are both humorous and serious implications of
this new "thinking" from the bastions of the left.
First and most interesting, conspiracy theories have
advanced to a formerly unattainable level of
mainstream acceptability. No longer is conspiracy
the automatic object of ridicule. The Left may have
finally capitulated in it's resistance to conspiracy.
No longer fighting this notion the Left is now joining
it. This will certainly give independent thinkers
a bit of awe and a few chuckles.
More serious is the implication that conspiracy
theories have been so effective in stimulating the
thinking of America that the Left has now recognized
them as potential propaganda tools. The new
conspiracies espoused by Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Babbitt
are in reality a concensus of public opinion which
is decidedly hostile to both of them. Rather than
address this, they have found what is believed to be
a more effective spin, labeling the loyal opposition
a "conspiracy". The more cynical may see this reaction
as pure hubris. The Left may have become so insulated
that it cannot conceive any resistance to it's grand
goals outside of fantasy conspiracies.
The popular so-called "right-wing" conspiracies such
as JFK, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, Waco, Vincent Foster
and TWA 800 are supported by much documentation and
evidence and have withstood the test of time. Yet the
conspiracy envisioned by Mrs. Clinton and friends has
no such evidentiary support other than a widespread,
spontaneous revulsion towards her and her like-minded
supporters. Continuing it's long trend of lap-dog
reporting the major media have ignored this
significant difference in conspiratorial evidence.
It is for this reason that the Left will fail in
it's attempt to commandeer the "conspiracy" weapon.
Ironically in this attempt the Left has elevated
conspiracy theories above ridicule to serious matters.
Throughout history conspiracies were the norm, not
the exception. In 20th Century America multi-generational
nationwide ethnic criminal conspiracies have prospered.
Like our current political situation, decades ago
America denied the very existence of the Mafia. This
head-in-the-sand reaction seems silly and improbable
today after the very public convictions of so many
mafiosa. Now journalist Michael Beschloss has uncovered
another more notable conspiracy theorist. In his
recent book on LBJ he reveals that the former President
never believed the Warren Commission. LBJ died in
the belief that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by
a conspiracy.
Since that November 35 years ago America has
witnessed a growing number of criminal conspiracies
in Federal garb. All of these governmental conspiracies
have shown the same arrogant disregard for the
Constitution, the rule of law and the truth, as first
exemplified that dark day in Dallas.
We have travelled far since 1963. Much too far.
John Moore
Republican Schism Widens
March 5, 1998
Cal. Repubs Caught With Fingers in the Cojone Jar
This week the California Republican Party in it's annual
meeting voted for the impeachment of President Clinton
and Vice President Gore. National Republican leaders
remained silent on the brave California resolution. Only
a few lower ranking Republicans in the US House have
been stout enough to promote similar action. National
Republican leadership is unable to gather the nerve for
a move which directly attacks the Washington
Democrat power structure on this or any other important
issue.
Party Leadership Seeks Accomodation
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi was
surrounded yesterday by a gaggle of giggling Washington
reporters. The felicitous mood of the press was a tip-off.
Sounding more like Mr. Clinton than Clinton himself the
Republican leader discussed plans for this year's
budget "surplus". Someone, perhaps one of the hundreds of
Congressional aides, should explain to Senator Lott the
relationship between the deficit or "surplus" and the
National Debt. As the readers of this post are no doubt
aware the National Debt is rising this year, as it has
for decades. In simple terms this year's rise in the
debt can only come from one place --- this year's
deficit! Every year the Federal Government's unpaid bills
get swept into that great promise in the sky, the National
Debt, and this year is no different. Well that's not
quite correct. This year is different, now the Republican
leaders are believing Mr. Clinton!
As Paul Begala or even Mike McCurry might say, the President
has given sworn testimony that "there was no improper
relationship" and "I believe him". It works for Messrs.
Begala and McCurry so why not for Senator Lott and the
rest of the Republican leadership? The President has
said there is a budget surplus and "we believe him".
This situation would be humorous if it weren't so serious.
The most disturbing aspect is that both the Republicans
and Democrats have taken to out-and-out lying about this
very significant problem. It seems that both parties have
capitulated on ever solving the debt crisis and have
mutually agreed to pretend that it is solved! This is
a dangerous absurdity that threatens a new Federal
Tax Code and all of those dependent on Social Security
and other Federal aid.
Money Is Not the Only Deception
During last week's crisis with Iraq Senator Lott
criticized UN Secretary Anonn's agreement. Strangely
the Senator never raised the Constitutional issue of
Congressional approval of an act of war against that
nation by a rather dictatorial President Clinton. Nor
did Senator Lott challenge the obvious and deadly
hypocracy by the Clinton administration which failed to
provide any response to the Red Chinese threat of
nuclear attack on the city of Los Angeles over a year
ago. Now we know that Mr. Clinton and the Democrats
were receiving campaign contributions from these same
Red Chinese maniacs. None of this disuades Senator Lott
or the other Republican enunchs from accomodation.
Previous Rebellions
Like earlier rebellions in the lower ranks Republican
leaders will cajole the party faithful during the
pre-election vote drives and fund raisers. Leaders will
tell the party members what they want to hear. Then
after the election it's back to business as usual. The
important unknown is the reaction of the Republican
troops. By now they must know that their leadership
has no intention of honorably confronting the great
corruption in Washington. They have given their leaders
several "last chance" chances to attack the crisis, to
no avail.
There is only one lever that the party members have
not used. It is the only lever that will give them
the respect they deserve from their leadership. It is a
fearful option for many. Years of brain-washing have
entrenched the false belief that only the Republican
politicians stand between them and the
leviathan state. In nine months we will know if the
Republican voter can retain the fortitude to do the
unthinkable, place the Constitution above party
loyalty, break the chain of corruption and vote 3rd
party. Any Democrat who has not made the same
determination for his leadership is beyond all hope.
Zepp Weasel
On 2 May 1998 20:06:53 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>Commerce Dept.: Wise Death Unresolved
>
>UPDATE 15: As of April 4, 1998 the death of
>Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
>Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
>Commerce Department almost 1 1/2 years ago. Ms Wise's
>strange death occurred only a few months after
>that of her boss, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
>No progress reports have been issued by the police
>investigators on the Wise death for over a year.
And Kennedy and Lincoln were both assassinated in the Sixties. There
is a pattern emerging here . . .
>
Snip X-Files bait.
----------------------------------------------------
Not dead, in jail, or a slave?
Thank a liberal.
-----------------------------------------------------
Be good, servile little citizen-employees:
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
When in doubt, call a stoat!
-----------------------------------------------------
Ford
On 2 May 1998 19:33:37 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>Review of "60 Minutes" Foster Story Errors
Oh my god, he's at it again. Must have gone off the meds. A real
tragedy.
Ford
John Moore
In <354b9fac....@news.snowcrest.net> ze...@snowcrest.net (Zepp
Weasel) writes:
>
>On 2 May 1998 20:06:53 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>Commerce Dept.: Wise Death Unresolved
>>
>>UPDATE 15: As of April 4, 1998 the death of
>>Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
>>Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
>>Commerce Department almost 1 1/2 years ago. Ms Wise's
>>strange death occurred only a few months after
>>that of her boss, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
>>No progress reports have been issued by the police
>>investigators on the Wise death for over a year.
>
>And Kennedy and Lincoln were both assassinated in the Sixties. There
>is a pattern emerging here . . .
Indeed, the evidence shows that both Presidents were assassinated by a
criminal conspiracy (different conspiracies of course).
John Moore
Well "gary" or "Ford" your over-used comment is tired and long since
past any humorous content.
Now, for something relevant, do you have any comment on the factual
items in the "60 Minutes" criticism?
Ford
I place far more weight of the findings of two independent councils
who have both concluded the death was a suicide that on an
*investigative news* program who's rating depend solely upon if they
produce a program that is entertaining to the viewers regardless of
the accuracy of the content.
F. Prefect
Michael Rivero
In order to believe the suicide theory to be valid, one must accept that
Vincent Foster placed a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the
trigger without getting any of his fingerprints or his blood on the gun
or powder or bullet fragments from the gun into the wound.
A short list of FACTS from the OFFICIAL RECORDS.
No blood on the gun. FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 10.
No fingerprints belonging to Vincent Foster on the gun. FBI Memo attached
to lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 2.
No powder, which could be matched to the dark blued steel gun, was found in the wounds.
FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 8.
No bullet fragments in the wounds. Beyer Autopsy, Gross Description
page, next to last paragraph.
I repeat: The claim of suicide requires Vincent Foster to have inserted
a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the trigger without getting
hi fingerprints or blood on that gun or powder or bullet fragments from
that gun in his wounds.
Dr. Beyer's autopsy, on which every claim of suicide has been based, has been
utterly destroyed by the discovery of the official report of Dr. Haut, the
M.E. that examined Vincent Foster at Fort Marcy Park. This report was
uncovered at the National Archives during a document search by Hugh Sprunt,
Hughie2U, and Patrick Knowlton. While part of the official records of the
Foster case, Dr. Haut's report was notably absent from the report published
by the Senate Banking Committee.
Dr. Haut reconfirmed the report to Reed Irvine of "Accuracy In Media"
and in that report, confirms the presence of a gunshot wound exiting
Vincent Foster's neck. This corroborates the sworn deposition of EMS
technician Richard Arthur who described a gunshot wound along Foster's
jaw line under the right ear.
Dr. Beyer did not include that wound in his autopsy report. Indeed, that
wound was obliterated by the drastic measure of removing Foster's entire
tongue and soft pallet prior to allowing investigators to view the remains,
under the excuse that the removal was needed to properly inspect the
entrance wound.
Beyer's past history isn't the most reassuring. Indeed he seems to be
the Virginia version of the infamous Dr. Fahmy Malek, the Arkansas
M.E. who ignored clear evidence of homicide in the deaths of Don Henry
and Kevin Ives and in one case ruled that a man who had been beheaded was dead
of natural causes.
Beyer himself, in the case of Tommy Burkett, ignored a broken jaw in order
to rule that Burkett had killed himself with a gun. Despite having shown
the autopsy photos to Burkett's father, Beyer later claimed (as he did with
the Foster X-rays) that they had never really existed.
Likewise, in 1989 there was an autopsy on establishing the death of a man
named Tim Easley. Mr. Beyer, the coroner, ruled that Easley killed himself
by stabbing himself in the chest. He failed to notice a defensive wound on
the man's hand. The case was reopened, and, after an outside expert reviewed
the case, Easley's girlfriend confessed to murdering him.
In short, Dr. Beyer's consistent performance (indeed his "specialty")
appears to be the cover-up of murder by declaration of suicide!
Beyer testified before the Senate Banking Committee Whitewater Hearings
on July 29, 1994, specifically stating that there is an "absence of trauma
to the jaw." It should be noted that Beyer has therefore committed perjury
before the United States Senate.
Scans of Dr. Haut's actual report are available for viewing and download
at http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/NECK/neck.html
Scans of Dr. Beyer's flawed autopsy are available for viewing and download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/AUTOPSY/autopsy.html
Then there is the matter of the silver gun.
Vincent Foster was found with a .38 Revolver made by Colt Arms. It was
built from parts taken from two other guns, and as a result had two
serial numbers. The Frame number was 355055, and according to the
records of the Colt Arms company (scanned and available at my website)
the gun was manufactured with a standard dark blue, almost black, finish.
In the Park Police record, the gun is describes as black. The accompanying
photographs in the Park police report show a black gun. (Also scanned and
available at my website.)
The photograph leaked by the White House to ABC-TV also shows a dark gun.
Outside of a glint from the camera flash, the gun image is too dark to
even detect the manufacturers blue color. One thing is quite clear, and that
is that the sharp protruding edges of the gun, where the finish would wear
off preferentially, show no signs of wear. Compare the albedo of the gun to
Fosters gold ring on his finger, just an inch away.
In all the Fort Marcy Park witnesses, in the Park Police, in the experts
at the FBI and ballistics lab, the gun is never described as anything but
dark blue or (more often) black.
No connection exists between that gun and Vincent Foster. Not even
fingerprints. Not even blood. Even the DNA traces on the gun, while "not
inconsistent" with Foster, were more likely to have originated with a black or
an Hispanic than a Caucasian.
Despite this, Robert Fiske (the ex-BCCI lawyer) inserted a comment on
page 38 of his report on Foster; a statement that Lisa Foster thought the gun
found with her husband was one she had brought up from Little Rock, Arkansas.
This statement came from an interview of Lisa Foster conducted by the FBI
several months after the murder of Vincent Foster, under the watchful eyes
of attorney Jim Hamilton and Fiske's representative on the scene, Roderick
Lankler.
In the original FD-302a report of the interview, as well as the handwritten
notes (scanned and available at my website), the interviewing FBI agents
describe the gun being shown to Lisa Foster as "silver colored", not just
once, but several times. The gun is never described as dark blue or black.
The FBI agents are not quoting Lisa Foster, they write down THEIR impressions
of what is being said and done, and in their own words, "LISA FOSTER believes
that the gun found at Fort Marcy Park may be the silver gun, which she brought
up with her other belongings when she permanently moved to Washington."
In order for Lisa Foster to believe that the gun presented to her as the
Fort Marcy Park gun might be the family silver gun, the gun presented to
her as the Fort Marcy Park gun must also be silver. Lisa Foster doesn't
have to be a gun expert to know that silver is not black.
From both the FD-302a form (released as part of the first Senate
Whitewater hearings) and the handwritten notes (pried loose via Chris
Ruddy's FOIA lawsuit), it's clear that Lisa Foster was shown a gun she
recognized as the gun she brought up from Little Rock, but it's equally
clear that this is not the same gun as that found with Vincent Foster.
Black is not silver.
Once found out, this lie generated more lies to try to keep the cover-up
in place, including the ludicrous suggestions that Lisa Foster cannot tell
silver from black, and that two FBI agents, and two lawyers heard and saw
a black gun described as silver in writing and did not request a clarification
or (as would be standard procedure) note the gun's serial number to preserve
the chain of evidence.
One thing is clear, regardless of just exactly how the FBI's report came to
describe a silver gun, it is utterly worthless in connection to the dark
blued steel .38 found with Vincent Foster, yet that is precisely how Fiske
chose to use it, paraphrasing (minus gun color, of course) Lisa's statement
into his report to link the .38 revolver to Vincent Foster.
The Fiske Report, having based its conclusion that Vincent Foster owned
the dark blued steel revolver he was found with solely on Lisa Foster's
recognition of a silver gun, is invalidated.
The FBI, already in court for evidence tampering in another area of the
Vincent Foster affair, manufactured the testimony of Lisa Foster as it
was used in the Fiske Report.
This pattern of repeated alterations in evidence and testimony proves
the existence of a cover-up, which in turn proves murder.
Scans of the official FBI records regarding the showing of the wrong
gun to Lisa Foster are available for viewing and download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html
--
Mike & Claire - The Rancho Runnamukka http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html
Awarded a Lycos "Top 5%" of the web!
Zepp Weasel
Why does that fail to surprise me. So when you aren't logging on, are
you the guy with the mirrored shades on "King of the Hill"?
John Moore
In <3552194a...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>
>On 3 May 1998 18:35:03 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>In <3552c8ae...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>>>
>>>On 2 May 1998 19:33:37 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore )
wrote:
>>>
>>>>Review of "60 Minutes" Foster Story Errors
>>>
>>>Oh my god, he's at it again. Must have gone off the meds. A real
>>>tragedy.
>>>
>>>Ford
>>
>>Well "gary" or "Ford" your over-used comment is tired and long since
>>past any humorous content.
>>
>>Now, for something relevant, do you have any comment on the factual
>>items in the "60 Minutes" criticism?
>
>I place far more weight of the findings of two independent councils
>who have both concluded the death was a suicide that on an
Hmmm.... the reports which concluded suicide never explained how the
gun arrived 15 to 25 minutes after the body was first discovered nor
did it explain how Mr. Foster's car arrived at the crime scene hours
after his death. Nor did the official report address the alleged
suicide note which was judged a forgery by several experts.
>F. Prefect
Well "Prefect" or "Ford" or "gary", doesn't this blatant contradiction
cause you to give some skepticism to the official conclusion?
John Moore
In <354d8d85...@news.snowcrest.net> ze...@snowcrest.net (Zepp
Weasel) writes:
>
>On 3 May 1998 18:31:29 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>In <354b9fac....@news.snowcrest.net> ze...@snowcrest.net (Zepp
>>Weasel) writes:
>>>
>>>On 2 May 1998 20:06:53 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore )
wrote:
>>>
>>>>Commerce Dept.: Wise Death Unresolved
>>>>
>>>>UPDATE 15: As of April 4, 1998 the death of
>>>>Barbara Wise remains unsolved. The body of Barbara
>>>>Wise was found bruised and partially nude in the
>>>>Commerce Department almost 1 1/2 years ago. Ms Wise's
>>>>strange death occurred only a few months after
>>>>that of her boss, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
>>>>No progress reports have been issued by the police
>>>>investigators on the Wise death for over a year.
>>>
>>>And Kennedy and Lincoln were both assassinated in the Sixties.
>>>There is a pattern emerging here . . .
>>
>>Indeed, the evidence shows that both Presidents were assassinated by
>>a criminal conspiracy (different conspiracies of course).
>
>Why does that fail to surprise me.
Well, perhaps because it is true?
> So when you aren't logging on, are
>you the guy with the mirrored shades on "King of the Hill"?
You're getting warm.
Don Stubbs
Michael Rivero wrote:
> In order to believe the suicide theory to be valid, one must accept that
[ Goofy Limbot shit snipped for sanity ]
Yeah right, imbecile.
One must accept that President Clinton is more powerful and magical than you
EVER suspected. Why, He used His powers on Ken Starr to convice him Foster
committed suicide.
You idiot Limbots had better fucking PRAY that the republican party comes up
with a candidate in time capable of defeating Gore in 2000.
Christ, I can just hear you now. . . pissing and moaning all the way into the
21st century.
--
S P A M S P O I L E R ! !
Remove "SPF" from my email
address before sending your reply
--
Don Stubbs Email: dast...@visi.com
Minneapolis MN Website: http://www.visi.com/~dastubbs
MEMBER: Human Rights Campaign http://www.hrcusa.org
Duane Gundrum
Michael Rivero wrote in message <6ijqsa$476$1...@blaze.accessone.com>...
>
> In order to believe the suicide theory to be valid, one must accept that
>Vincent Foster placed a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the
>trigger without getting any of his fingerprints or his blood on the gun
>or powder or bullet fragments from the gun into the wound.
>
>
> A short list of FACTS from the OFFICIAL RECORDS.
>
>
> No blood on the gun. FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 10.
Often, when a gun is put into one's mouth and the trigger is pulled, the
blast blows blood, and body parts, out the back side of the head, not
splattering back into the mouth.
>
> No fingerprints belonging to Vincent Foster on the gun. FBI Memo attached
>to lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 2.
>
That one I won't challenge, because if that's true then it is an interesting
situation, and that's one someone else will have to explain.
>No powder, which could be matched to the dark blued steel gun, was found in
the wounds.
>FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 8.
>
That also goes back to the first situation. Not always does powder get
deposited in the wounds. Sometimes, during suicides, it does. Sometimes, it
doesn't. I've investigated enough of them in my time.
> No bullet fragments in the wounds. Beyer Autopsy, Gross Description
>page, next to last paragraph.
>
Need to see if there was an exit wound. If there's an exit wound and the
bullet didn't explode within the head, then it can easily have blown out the
back side of the head. Bullet fragments are not a necessity.
> I repeat: The claim of suicide requires Vincent Foster to have inserted
>a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the trigger without getting
>hi fingerprints or blood on that gun or powder or bullet fragments from
>that gun in his wounds.
>
The one point that would bring interest would be the fingerprints. As I
stated earlier, that's something I can't explain without more information,
but then again, I'm not the investigator nor do I really have a concern
either way.
Duane
du...@penguinlogic.com
http://www.penguinlogic.com/polysci
Mike>>Schneider
In article <3553EE29...@SPFvisi.com>, dast...@SPFvisi.vom wrote:
>Michael Rivero wrote:
>
>> In order to believe the suicide theory to be valid, one must accept that
>
>[ Goofy Limbot shit snipped for sanity ]
"Limbot shit"?
Since when has that flatulent gasbag even done anything but shill the
state line on the Foster case?
I submit the following hatpin to your bladderlike false dichotomy:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For those who have joined us late, here is the BEST OF RUSH LIMBAUGH:
TRANSCRIPT
DATE:July 2, 1996
TIME:12: 00-3: 00 PM EDT
STATION:WMAL-AM(ABC)
LOCATION:Washington
PROGRAM:The Rush Limbaugh Show (Syndicated)
Rush Limbaugh, host: College Park, Maryland. Larry hello. Welcome to the
EIB Network,
Larry (Caller, College Park, Maryland) : Hi, hello, Rush Limbaugh.
Limbaugh: Hi.
Larry: I'll tell you, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree with you
more, sir, and...
Limbaugh : Just in general ?
Larry. Well, in most things. There's a few things we might agree on, but
really, you know, you always say you're in pursuit of the truth, but
sometimes I don't think you'd know it if you tripped over it.
And you've concentrated on a lot of things, like Aldrich and Filegate, and
Hillary's polls, and frankly, she's not even running for president, and
you miss the point
Limbaugh: But she is. Well, but she is.
Larry: Well, she's not on the ballot in my state.
Limbaugh: But- well, but she is- she's- she's as much a vote-getter as he
is. She positions herself that way . I mean, she- she- yeah, come on admit
that for crying out loud. She- they said, 'Vote for one, you get us both',
the blue plate special.
Larry: Well, she said that, but in reality, but she's not really running,
and they can shut her off if they need to, and put her back in the back
room, and bring her out if they need her after he's re-elected, because he
will probably be re-elected.
Limbaugh: It's exactly what happens.
Larry : That's correct, sir, and I'll tell you where you miss the mark,
and you miss it consistently, you know, you talk about Livingstone and
Filegate and so on, and that's not really the issue with Mr. Livingstone.
I think you said Filegate might have legs because it's current, and I
think you're wrong, again. There are other things that are current, that-
that don't have legs. Mr. Livingstone was very much the central figure in
the death of Vincent Foster, and you yourself said, and I quote, 'Find out
why Vince Foster's dead, and you'll unlock the key to all of these things.'
Limbaugh: Yeah.
Larry: But, you know, sir, you never, ever discuss all of the facts of the
Foster case. You ignore them, you duck them, and you never address the
issue. If that's such a key issue, if that's so important as you said.
You said that's the whole key, yet you never talk about it. You very
seldom bring up the topic. For example, Livingstone- Livingstone was in
the morgue, you know,
Limbaugh: Well, no, no, I am not going to speculate about it 'cause I
don't know.
Larry: Well, I'm not speculating, because I've read the documents, and I
went out to the morgue, and I interviewed the staff out there at Fairfax
morgue, and I know that Craig Livingstone was there before the Park Police
came and picked up the keys, and it was the story in the New York Post
yesterday--John Crudel covered it, and- and it is a fact, that the Park
Police came after, and that there were no car keys found on Mr. Foster at
the park.
Let me ask you a question. How did Foster get to the park, when his car
was there, and there were no car keys? Answer me that one.
Limbaugh. I have no idea.
Larry: Well, do you think he drove with no keys? Can you speculate on
that?
Limbaugh: What is- why- why don't you- I got a minute, here. What is the
point you're making, that he com- that he did not commit suicide?
Larry: The point- well, I don,t know if he committed suicide or not, but
I know we haven't been told the truth, and you always say you're in
relentless pursuit of the truth, but not on the this issue you're not.
You ducked this issue. You do not pursue the truth here. That's a fact.
and we've not been told the truth, and that's the fact, too. You can read
the Fiske report and see that it's full of errors. Have you read the Fiske
report?
Limbaugh: I- yeah- well, no, but I.
Larry: Well then, you're not in pursuit of the truth.
Limbaugh: ..but, I-, I- so, what we have here, you are---
Larry: You're not informed.
Limbaugh; ...you are not, as- as Mr. Snerdley (sp) thought, a Clinton
supporter.
Larry: Well, I think Clinton's going to be re-elected.
Limbaugh: No, no, no. Did you tell him you were a Clinton supporter..
Larry Yes. I, yeah, I... (Limbaugh dumped his telephonic tormentor.)
Limbaugh: Well, so you lied, Larry. So, when you tell one lie, all of what
you say is worthless. That's the mantra, today. So sir, you're not going
to be rewarded by saying- you don't have to lie to get on this program.
If you are in the pursuit of Vince Foster being murdered, get your own
show, and you go out and pursue it as best you- as best you can, but don't
lie to get on this program, to accuse me of malfeasance, or some-, some
sort of incompetence, as host.
###
> > res...@ap.net (Richard Estes) wrote:
> >
> > >The greatest call in to a talk show I have heard.
> >
> > >With R. Limbaugh in the background, I choked on my hot dog when a
> > >caller named Larry got by the screen by claiming to be a Clinton
> > >supporter.
> >
> > >After talking about Clinton for a second he took RL on as a fraud for
> > >claiming to always be looking for the truth. "What about the truth
> > >about Vince Foster", he said. "You never want to talk about that."
>
>
> wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck) wrote:
>
> So what did the Fat-Assed Fraud have to say for himself?
>
>
> res...@ap.net (Richard Estes) wrote:
>
> From high atop his mountain of excellence, overlooking the turnpike of
> truth, he hung up on the guy. Rush claimed one needn1t lie to get on his
> program. Do you really believe he would have gotten through with his
> topic had he been straightforward? Personally, I doubt it.
> Regards, DL
Clearly Larry *did* have to lie to get on the program, which would
make Rush himself a liar, and: "when you tell one lie, all of what you say
is worthless".
> In article <19970814132...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> hugh...@aol.com (Hughie2U) wrote:
Limbaugh covers up the truth about Vincent Foster not because he is afraid
of losing market share.
He covers up the truth because that is in his job description. Like any
good government propagandists he DIVIDES the people (in his case between
left and right) and then DISTRACTS attention from the truth by pointing to
Filegate, Watergate, Chinagate, Wiley etc. all of the "approved" scandals
de jour.
Limbaugh is part of the establishment media. Limbaugh is the official
"critic". Only government sponsored "critics" are allowed to criticize
the government.
THAT is Limbaugh's job and that is why he is silent on Foster.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To prevent email spam, my email address is altered. To reach me, you
must replace everything before the @ with "mike1" and delete any CAPS.
Covet: To desire that which the owner wickedly withholds.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary
John Moore
0509982150
John Moore
In <6j3bhk$p...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John
Moore ) writes:
>
>0509982150
Test 2
John Moore
Proof of Homicide in the Case of Vincent Foster
Those who have supported the official conclusion of suicide by
Mr. Fiske have found themselves swamped by contrary evidence. As
a result, supporters of Mr. Fiske have assiduously avoided any
contact with the evidence and instead have used the methods of
propagandists. To counter this dis-information the following
simple proof of homicide is offered. Undoubtedly there are
others.
UPDATE: Park Police Officer John Rolla's testimony to the
Senate is cited below. Note that Officer Rolla verifies CW's
account of Mr. Foster's hands, both palm up. When asked
about the gun Officer Rolla's response indicates he remembered
no gun. Thanks are extended to Hugh Sprunt for this cite.
The "Proof of Homicide" was first published in this News Group
over two years ago. Since that time further evidence has only
strengthened the "Proof". During our discussions over a year
ago it was discovered that Mr. Foster's car was not seen until
after 6:00 p.m. July 20 1993. This fact was later verified
by Messers. Ruddy and Pritchard. Last year Mr. Pritchard
released photos of jawline perforation which he and other
investigators believe to be gunshot of a caliber smaller than
the .38 found with the body. The evidentiary addition by Mr. Sprunt
further substantiates the evidence for homicide in the
death of Vincent Foster.
Pertinent Evidence: (Source: Fiske Report, FBI Lab Reports,
Autopsy, Congressional Record.)
1) CW, the Confidential Witness who first discovered Mr.
Foster's body, stated in sworn testimony before members of
the US House as recorded in the August 2, 1994 (House Congressional
Record 8/2/94 approx pg H6619) that Mr. Foster had no gun in
either hand. There was no gun at the scene.
The first reference to the Ft. Marcy gun occurs about 20
to 30 minutes after CW had departed the scene. According to
Mr. Fiske, EMT Gonzales and assistant noticed the gun in
Foster's hand after re-discovering the body with USPP
Officer Fornshill standing over it. (Fiske Report on
Vincent Foster 6/30/94 pg. 32)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been
planted at the scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having been incapable of
using the Ft. Marcy gun.
1b)From John Rolla's Senate Whitewater Committee Deposition taken on
07/21/94;
S.Hrgs. 103-889, Volume I, page 429.
Q: When you first saw the body, can you describe the position the
hands
were in?
A: Like this.
Q: You are indicating palms UP [Emphasis added by Sprunt]?
A: Palms UP [Emphasis added by Sprunt], down by the side.
Q: About how close to the body?
A: I would say the left hand was about, I don't know, 4 to 6 inches
and the right hand was right alongside the right thigh, his hip.
His upper thigh andhip area, buttocks, right cheek area,
buttocks,
right along the side there.
Q: How would you describe the relationship of the gun and the right
hand on the side?
A: Gun? [This is almost too rich!]
2) The FBI failed to trace the ownership of the Ft. Marcy gun
(a black 1913 Colt .38 caliber Army Revolver) to Foster or
his family. In fact the FBI was unable to trace the ownership
to anyone. To this day the ownership of the Ft. Marcy gun
is unknown. (Fiske pg. 38 top)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been planted
at the scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having not used the Ft.
Marcy gun.
3) The three adult Foster children all denied that the Ft. Marcy
gun belonged to the family collection. (Fiske pg. 38 bottom)
Mr. Foster's wife, Lisa, could not identify the Ft. Marcy gun
as belonging to the family. In her FBI interview the former
Mrs. Foster discussed only one gun, the silvery gun from
Arkansas, as being similar (but NOT identical) to the black
Ft. Marcy gun.
Clearly the Ft. Marcy gun, which is black, is not identical
to the silver-colored family gun recalled by Mrs. Foster.
Sharon Bowman, Mr. Foster's sister, also failed to identify
the Ft. Marcy gun as belonging to the family. Mrs. Bowman
noted that the etched webbing on the grips of the Ft. Marcy
gun were "similar" to those on the family gun. However such
webbing is common on most revolvers from Colt and Smith &
Wesson. Mrs. Bowman could not recall anything particular to
the family or her father that distinguished the webbing she
recalled.
Conclusion:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been planted
at the scene.
4) The exit wound in the head of the deceased is far too small
for a .38 caliber HV (High Velocity) unjacketed lead round
from a 4" barrel gun. Such bullets typically remove a
fist-sized area of the skull around the exit. The autopsy on
Mr. Foster describes an exit wound the size of a quarter or
half-dollar. (Report of Autopsy, Office of the Chief Medical
Examiner Fairfax VA. Signed by Dr. James C. Beyer dated July
28 1993 -- Body Diagram-Head)
Conclusions:
This is evidence that the Ft. Marcy gun did not inflict the
head wound.
This is consistent with the gun having been planted at the
scene.
5) The fatal bullet was never retrieved. Without the fatal
bullet no ballistics match can be done with the Ft. Marcy gun
therefore it cannot be shown that this gun caused the head
wound. The FBI scoured Ft. Marcy Park on two occasions.
Several Civil War era bullets, which would have been buried
much deeper than a recent bullet, were recovered. Yet the
alleged Foster bullet was not found. (Fiske pg. 47)
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having not
inflicted the head wound.
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having been
planted at the scene.
6) Mr. Foster left no fingerprints, human hand oils or
perspiration on the Ft. Marcy gun though it was a hot 90
degrees on the day of his death. In fact there were no
organic substances on the Ft. Marcy gun which could be
directly attributable to Mr. Foster. (FBI Lab Washington
June 9 1994, File No. 29D-LR-35063 Lab No. E-2700 pg. 2)
Certain DNA tests found genetic material of a class which
included Mr. Foster, yet this genetic material was not
exclusive to Mr. Foster. In other words just as a blood type
includes many individuals so does Mr. Foster's DNA class.
In fact 8 percent of Blacks have the same DNA class as
Mr. Foster who was Caucasian. However the FBI stated that
only 6% of Caucasians are of the DNA Type found on the
Ft. Marcy gun.(FBI Lab Washington D.C. May 9,1994 FBI
File 29D-LR-35063 pg. 10, DNA ANALYSIS)
In short it is more probable that the DNA sample came from
a Black than a White man. The DNA could have come from
anyone who handled the mysterious gun during it's un-
traceable 84 year life.
Conclusions:
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun having not
inflicted the head wound.
This is consistent with the gun having been planted at the
scene.
This is consistent with Mr. Foster having not used the gun.
7) No brain or bone fragments from the exit wound were found at
the scene. (Fiske pg 32-36, 47)
Conclusions:
This is not consistent with the damage done by a .38 caliber
High Velocity unjacketed round nosed lead bullet.
This is consistent with Ft. Marcy gun having not inflicted
the head wound.
This is consistent with items 1 through 6.
8) NEW: Second gunshot wound, below jaw as reported in Fiske
by EMTs but discounted, has been confirmed by Ambrose E. Pritchard's
reporting of a Park Police photo showing the wound.
Conclusions:
This is not consistent with the damage done by a .38 caliber bullet.
This is consistent with the Ft. Marcy gun not having inflicted the
head wound.
This is consistent with Vincent Foster having not used the Ft. Marcy
gun
A second gunshot wound to the neck by a second gun contradicts
suicide and strongly supports homicide.
This is consistent with conclusions in points 1 through 7.
The above evidence, and other evidence not discussed here, all
points to only one conclusion, the Ft. Marcy gun did not inflict
the head wound on the deceased. Without the Ft. Marcy gun there
can be no suicide because there is no known instrument of death.
(Dead men do not dispose of their suicide weapons)
Without the Ft. Marcy gun as the death weapon we are left with
only a dead body and a violent, unexplained hole in the head.
Further the unexplained appearance of the Ft. Marcy gun in
context with the other evidence points clearly to obstruction
of justice for the purpose of deception.
NEW: Further the appearance of a second gunshot wound to the neck
of different caliber from the .38 caliber Ft. Marcy gun can be
construed at this point as firm evidence of murder.
There are only four possibilities:
1) Natural death
2) Accidental death
3) Suicide
4) Homicide
Option 1 has never been in contention.
Option 2 is not possible as there is no instrument in evidence
or at the scene which would explain the head wound.
Option 3 has been disproven by the evidence which shows the Ft.
Marcy gun did not inflict the head wound and was not originally
at the scene. There is no evidence linking the Ft. Marcy gun to
the Foster death with the exception of it's unexplained
appearance at the park.
NEW: Option 3 is disproven by a second gunshot wound of different
caliber.
Option 4, homicide, is the only remaining option.
There are no other choices.
This concludes the proof of homicide.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Common objections:
Suicide Elsewhere, Sloppiness, Motive, Killers, Surety,
Disproval of Homicide.
After examining the unpleasant conclusion above many people leap
to concluding that Mr. Foster committed suicide but not at
Ft. Marcy. Unfortunately there is no publicly available evidence
to support this desperate notion.
Certain evidence, not discussed here, indicates Mr. Foster may
have indeed died outside of Ft. Marcy. However the evidence does
not support suicide. The evidence points to homicide outside of
Ft. Marcy. Those who jump to suicide elsewhere overlook an
obvious difficulty. Historically, "suicides" as described in
the Foster case are constructed to hide homicide.
The contradictions in the Foster evidence give the impression
of sloppiness on the part of the alleged perpetrators. This
limited yet somewhat correct observation, leads many to falsely
conclude that murder is not possible. The reason usually given
for this is that the perpetrators would surely have had access
to the best assassins and therefore there would be no
"sloppiness".
This backwards logic infects much of the Foster debate. Note
that the argument does not invoke or deny evidence, but is based
only on the assumption that professional assassins would not
leave such evidence. Those who travel this path consider them-
selves perceptive. Yet this perception misses a very obvious
point, that the evidence is contrary to suicide. Whether we
perceive the perpetrators as sloppy or not the conclusions
drawn from the evidence remain --- and those conclusions
dictate homicide.
The motive for Mr. Foster's homicide initiates much discussion
amongst those who mistakenly believe that such is necessary to
establish murder. Brief reflection will show that murder victims
are discovered every day in this country without a killer or
motive apparant. The local police begin an investigation which
is charged with finding the killer and the motive.
Clearly, motive is not necessary to establish homicide.
Regarding Foster, the publicly available evidence does not show
a motive.
Much speculation has been generated about Mr. Foster's
murderer(s). The publicly available evidence does not reveal the
murderers. This is a matter for further investigation.
Presumably Mr. Steven Parker, the Memphis prosecutor is pursuing
this matter.
Often it is asked if we can be absolutely sure that Mr. Foster
was murdered. This is an irrelevant question. In a court of law,
the highest standard to which the evidence applies, surety is
not required. The law only requires that no reasonable doubt
remain before determining homicide.
Some argue that the future cannot be known so evidence may
appear later which will disprove homicide. Unfortunately this
is true in any homicide, or crime. If this rule were applied to
all criminal cases then there would NEVER be a conviction. The
best that can be said for Foster is that after 3 1/2 years of
investigation no evidence has yet surfaced which disproves the
well known Foster contradictions.
At some point in all criminal cases the time for gathering
evidence stops and a verdict is rendered. This has been the
nature of our justice system for over 200 years. Foster should
be no exception.
John Moore
John Moore
Test4
John Moore
Test3
Ford
On 10 May 1998 04:47:48 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>0509982150
They're being deleted by a left wing conspiracy headed by Hillary
Clinton who believe your exhaustive investigations of the Foster death
is getting too close to the truth. Watch your step John, as you have
often said the Clinton Administration can be likened to the Mafia.
Seriously, when are you going to throw in the towel visa vie Foster.
Do you really believe that two independent councils are part of a vast
conspiracy. For Christ's sake, that loose cannon Starr has now
descended to new lows by investigating the President's sex life. Do
you really think he would be putting forth any effort in this
direction if he had evidence that Foster was murdered and the Clinton
Administration was involved?
F. Prefect
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as being a bad move.....
Douglas Adams
John Moore
Test5 CWST
John Moore
Further Sworn Testimony of CW about
Mr. Foster. House Congressional Record
August 2, 1994 pg. H6622
Congressman Mica: "And you didn't see
any--you didn't see any evidence that
somebody had committed suicide, any
blood in, say around the grass or
anything behind the head?"
CW: "There was no--I mean I bent over
and looked. I didn't lay my head flat
on the ground. I probably lent[sic] my
head down to within 16 inches of the
ground. No signs, not a sign of [blood]"
Congressman Burton: "But you didn't see
any blood as close as you got around
the head or anything like that?"
CW: "None".
pg. H6623
Congressman Mica: "How long did you spend
over the body, 5 seconds, 10 seconds?"
CW: "Oh no, 2 minutes
John Moore
Test6 CWBL
John Moore
UPDATE May 8 1998: Sworn Testimony of CW corroborated
by Park Police Officer.
(CW's testimony follows Rolla's)
Below is the testimony of Park Police Officer John
Rolla who investigated Mr. Foster's body at the
scene of death, Ft. Marcy Park, July 20, 1993.
It is of critical importance that Officer Rolla
corroborates CW's sworn testimony that Mr. Foster's
hands were both palm UP. According to Messrs. Fiske
and Starr Mr. Foster was found with his right hand
palm DOWN and OVER the .38 caliber revolver AND
that the right hand was partially UNDER the right
leg.
Clearly Officer Rolla and CW directly contradict
the official Fiske/Starr conclusion that Mr. Foster
was originally found with a gun in hand. Thanks
are extended to Mr. Hugh Sprunt for contributing
the Rolla cite.
From John Rolla's Senate Whitewater Committee
Deposition taken on 07/21/94; S.Hrgs. 103-889,
Volume I, page 429.
Q: When you first saw the body, can you
describe the position the hands were in?
A: Like this.
Q: You are indicating palms UP [Emphasis
added by Sprunt]?
A: Palms UP [Emphasis added by Sprunt], down
by the side.
Q: About how close to the body?
A: I would say the left hand was about, I don't
know, 4 to 6 inches and the right hand was right
alongside the right thigh, his hip.His upper
thigh and hip area, buttocks, right cheek
area, buttocks, right along the side there.
Q: How would you describe the relationship of
the gun and the right hand on the side?
A: Gun? [This is almost too rich!]
Official Quotes from CW's Sworn Testimony to Congress
August 2, 1994 House Congressional Record, pg H6620
"Involving the statement about the gun in Vince
Foster's hand, I made it clear that the palms of his
hands were facing up and at his sides."
"After having seen the photo of the hand and the gun
I am sure, I am sure the hand had been moved, because
the palms were both face up when I saw Mr. Foster's
body."
Congressman Burton: "Would you tell us how close you
were to the body and how close you got to his face,
his hands and everything else."
CW: "I stood directly over the top of his head at
the head of the berm. My right foot, I'm sure that
it was my right foot, was somewhere between 24 to 30
inches from the top of his head. No closer. At that
point, leaning over with my left foot extended behind
me I looked directly down into his eyes from about 3
foot to 4 foot maximum above his face."
Congressman Mica: "Was there a gun in the hands?"
CW: "There was no gun in his hand. His-both palms were
face up, thumbs out to the side."
Congressman Mica: "You did not see a gun?"
CW: "I did not see a gun next to the body."
"I clearly saw his hands were empty and he had no signs
that he had, was defending himself or something."
Congressman Mica: "Did you see--you said the palms were out?"
CW: "The palms were face up."
Congressman Mica: "Both? Both palms?"
CW: "Right beside him neatly. Just like that." (CW gestures)
John Moore
Test8 FLACB
John Moore
Test7 ME
John Moore
Magical Foster Evidence
There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
items even while straining all credulity with
fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
Magic is popular where science and logic are
unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
labeled propaganda as shown below.
Item 1 -- The Magic Gun
In August of 1994 CW, the Confidential Witness
who first discovered Mr. Foster's body, gave
sworn testimony that no gun was present in
either of Mr. Foster's hands. He swore that each
hand was palm-up and empty. CW gave his
testimony after the release of the Fiske report.
CW was a critical Fiske witness. Yet CW did not
agree with Fiske's transcription of his [CW]
comments. The gun did not appear in Foster's
hand until 15 to 25 minutes AFTER CW left the
scene. It was discovered when Officer Fornshill
came upon the body following CW's directions.
The origin of the gun on the body is still
unexplained.
UPDATE May 8 1998: Park Police Officer Rolla,
who investigated Foster's body at the scene of
death, corroborates CW's statement: (Thanks to
Hugh Sprunt for cite)
From John Rolla's Senate Whitewater Committee
Deposition taken on 07/21/94; S.Hrgs. 103-889,
Volume I, page 429.
Q: When you first saw the body, can you
describe the position the hands were in?
A: Like this.
Q: You are indicating palms UP [Emphasis
added by Sprunt]?
A: Palms UP [Emphasis added by Sprunt], down
by the side.
Q: About how close to the body?
A: I would say the left hand was about, I don't
know, 4 to 6 inches and the right hand was right
alongside the right thigh, his hip.His upper
thigh and hip area, buttocks, right cheek
area, buttocks, right along the side there.
Q: How would you describe the relationship of
the gun and the right hand on the side?
A: Gun? [This is almost too rich!]
Item 2 -- The Magic Keys
Officer John Rolla arrived at Ft. Marcy after
Officer Fornshill, sometime after 6:30 p.m. July
20, 1993. Officer Rolla searched Mr. Foster's
body for personal effects. He searched all of
Mr. Foster's pockets and found no car keys.
After Mr. Foster's body was taken to the morgue
Craig Livingstone arrived. His purpose
was to identify the body. After Mr. Livingstone's
visit at the morgue Officer Cheryl Braun searched
the body again. Officer Braun did so and magically
discovered a large wad of several car keys in
Mr. Foster's previously searched pocket. Officer
Rolla maintains there were no keys in Mr. Foster's
pockets at the scene of death, Ft. Marcy park.
Item 3 -- The Magic Car
Several Fiske witnesses recounted descriptions
of cars in the Ft. Marcy parking lot during
the evening of Mr. Foster's death. Patrick
Knowlton recalled a brown Honda at approximately
4:30 p.m. A romantic couple parked in a white
Nissan recalled the same Honda and other cars
during the late afternoon. CW noted a white
Japanese car. Yet despite all these witnesses
NO ONE recalled Mr. Foster's gray Honda. In fact
the Foster GRAY Honda was not seen in the lot
until after about 6:30 p.m. by EMTs and Police.
Mr. Foster's dead body had been discovered about
40 minutes previous to this time, 5:50 p.m. In
fact the first officials to arrive in the
Ft. Marcy lot (6:10 p.m.) did not see the Gray
Honda either. The appearance of the Foster car
is unexplained.
Item 4 -- The Magic Splotch
Upon arrival at the death scene Park Police only
noted small blood tracks from the nose and mouth.
Yet during the time the body lay in the
park, under police custody, a large blood splotch
appeared on the right cheek. Mr. Fiske blamed
this on improper handling by the police or EMTs.
Yet all police and EMTs (Emergency Medical Techs)
strongly deny responsibility. The appearance of
the blood splotch is unexplained.
Item 5 -- The Magic Blood
Dr. Haut, a Medical Examiner for Fairfax County,
examined the body at the scene. He found only
a small, matted clot of hair on the back of the
head. In his FBI interview he described little
blood. When Dr. Haut ordered the body rolled
a stain was discovered on the ground under the
back. According to Mr. Fiske this was a large
quantity of blood. According to Dr. Haut it
was not large. On moving the body and placing it
in a bag EMT Corey Ashford also noted the
surprising lack of blood on the body and his
rubber gloves. After arrival at the morgue the
back of the shirt was described as soaked with
blood. Mr. Fiske explains that the body bled
profusely hours after death, while in transit, yet
bled little while allegedly dying at Ft. Marcy.
Commonality of Magic Evidence
There are common elements to each of these 5
magic items of evidence.
1) The magic item did not appear on the first
inspection of the body or scene.
2) No one observed the appearance of the magic
item.
3) All magic items appeared after police took
custody of the death scene and all evidence.
4) The first 3 magic items of evidence are not
explained.
5) The last 2 magic items are poorly explained
and contradicted by other evidence.
Many people dismiss these items as sloppy
police work. Of course many people also believe
in magic. However even magicians cannot explain
a dead man grabbing a gun and driving a car.
As a boy I learned a limerick with a lulling
meter and deceptively easy flow:
One bright day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys began to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other,
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
And came to kill those two dead boys.
Like "Alice in Wonderland" it is a child's story
with clear adult implications. Given a certain
context and a certain source we can be lulled into
accepting the unacceptable.
John Moore
Test9 of 9
John Moore
UPDATE May 8 1998:
In the middle of this week nurse Joyce Riley,
who spearheaded the investigation into Gulf
War Syndrome, stated that this law has been
REPEALED!!
It is not yet clear which Congressmen aided in
the demise of this Stalinist/Orwellian scheme
but they are to be congratulated.
Also unclear is the status of similar future
legislation or whether Section 1520 has been
dispersed into other areas of law.
For almost 2 years this post has run in this
News Group. To those citizens who have taken
action against this reprehensible law many
of us are indebted.
------------------------
Fed Law Allows Bio. Experiments on Public
The Following is taken from United States Code Title
50 Chap. 32
Section 1520: CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM
(The United States Code in the complete compilation of
all Federal US Laws. There are 50 Titles or major
groupings dealing with every aspect of Federal law
ie: Social Security, Veterans Benefits, Indian Affairs,
War, National Security, Income Tax etc.. This is a new
law as of 1994)
1520. Use of human subjects for testing of chemical or
biological agents by Department of Defense; accounting
to Congressional committees with respect to experiments
and studies; notification of local civilian officials
(a) Not later than thirty days after final approval
within the Department of Defense of plans for any
experiment or study to be conducted by the Department
of Defense, whether directly or under contract, involving
the use of human subjects for the testing of chemical
or biological agents, the Secretary of Defense shall
supply the Committees on Armed Services of the Senate
and House of Representatives with a full accounting of
such plans for such experiment or study, and such
experiment or study may then be conducted only after
the expiration of the thirty-day period beginning
on the date such accounting is received by such
committees.
(b)
(1) The Secretary of Defense may not conduct any test
or experiment involving the use of any chemical or
biological agent on civilian populations unless local
civilian officials in the area in which the test or
experiment is to be conducted are notified in advance
of such test or experiment, and such test or experiment
may then be conducted only after the expiration of the
thirty-day period beginning on the date of such notification.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall apply to tests and experiments
conducted by Department of Defense personnel and tests
and experiments conducted on behalf of the Department
of Defense by contractors.
----------------------------------------------------------
Take particular note that Section 1520 applies to human
subjects, not just military human subjects AND that
"notification of local civilian officials" is not
restricted to officials in communities close to
military reservations. In other words the locations
for such tests are not specified or limited to any region.
Note that paragraph b) 1) specifically allows the use
of civilians in chem/bio testing. Note that nowhere
is it specified that said civilians MUST be notified
or that PERMISSION must be given by said civilians.
In other words we are all potential guinea pigs.
Note that the Department of Defense is not required to
gain the permission of "local civilian officials" but
only to supply "notification". The content and manner
of such "notification" and the "local officials"
acceptable for "notification" are not specified. In
other words once the Department of Defense has decided
to experiment on a town there is no recourse --- in
effect there are only 30 days to prepare or exit.
Note that private contractors under the direction of
the Department of Defense may carry out chemical and
biological experiments on the public.
Note that "local officials" are not required to notify
local civilians after receipt of "notification" of
chem/bio testing.
Note that neither the Department of Defense, nor the
Committees on Armed Services of the Senate and House
are required to notify local civilian populations.
This section of law is sandwiched between two other
sections of law which deal exclusively with military
usage of chemical and biological agents.
The recent uproar over Gulf War Disease and the denial
of such by the Department of Defense may be precusor
to similar events in the US civilian population.
John Moore
Starr's Report Fails to Address Foster Controversy
October 1997
IC Kenneth Starr has concluded his investigation
into the death of Vincent Foster. The man whom
Mr. Starr charged with the investigation, Steven
Parker, a Memphis prosecutor, has made no comment.
Mr. Starr has determined suicide in Mr. Foster's
death after the advice of experts and their
analysis.
Mr. Starr said the evidence points only to suicide.
He could find no evidence of any other crime.
Those informed of the Foster evidence can only gasp
and wonder at such an unlikely result. We should
at this point be candid. Mr. Starr is not telling
the truth. We know this because Mr. Fiske released
much of the Foster evidence and that evidence
completely contradicts the possibility of suicide.
Mr. Starr has not cited any part of the evidence
which led to the suicide conclusion. He merely
proclaims the determination on the basis of his
authority and unspecified "experts".
We have an interesting conflict. On the one hand
there is reason and evidence, on the other there
is only authority. Which should be trusted? Imagine
putting this question to one of the Founders of
this Republic. What would they say? Perhaps we
need only look to a recent President and follow
his wise dictum -- "Trust but verify". To which
the corollary must be added -- "No verification,
no trust". Mr. Starr and his supporters in the
Federal Government and the national press ask for
our trust while in the act of a great lie. Trust is
not a thing that is given but rather earned. Clearly
in this instance it has not been earned but unearned.
Many in Federal service and the media see their calling to
protect the citizens from themselves. Much as a babysitter
would not inform an child about matches our Federal
protectors believe it unwise to tell us of assassi-
nations. We are a volatile and ignorant lot, as they
see us. Who knows what mischief we might do? This
cannot be allowed. Murders and assassinations can
be allowed but public knowledge of them cannot be
allowed. This is the only way to preserve our
government and it's freedom -- or so their amoral
logic convolutes in backroom debate.
Many thoughtless citizens fall for this ruse. We can
hear the new Orwellian foundations of government,
"Ignorance is Freedom", "Knowledge is Subversion".
"Murder if you must, but do not tell me. Take my
neighbor but do not take me." These citizens fail to
see the fatal contradiction in their borrowed "wisdom".
There is only one way to maintain freedom and that
is to confront this insidious threat and punish those
responsible. This is the act of an informed people that
alarms some in Washington's high places. Our government
and Constitution are more than the sum of 535
scoundrels and numerous bureaucracies. If each of the
535 were replaced tomorrow the nation would proceed
quite well despite their pompous protestations.
This is the real fear in Washington.
Mr. Starr has not done the right thing but he has
done the expected thing, the gutless thing. He has
subverted justice to temporary political loyalty.
He has done one other thing. He has shown us that
the current occupants of government are incapable of
solving the crisis.
John Moore
Ruddy Suggests Gun was "Planted", FBI Complicity
Mr. Ruddy builds a strong case for doubting that Mr. Foster
had any contact with the alleged suicide weapon, a .38
caliber, black,1913 Colt Army revolver, previous to his
death. Mr. Ruddy shows evidence that indicates there
was no gun when the body was first discovered. Later
after Park Police arrived it is shown that two guns may
have been "planted" on the body. The first gun was
apparently a semi-automatic of 9mm or .45 caliber
which was then swapped for the 1913 Colt.
Mr. Ruddy provides clear evidence that FBI witness
statements were materially altered to support the official
story of a single alleged suicide gun, a .38 caliber
black Colt Army revolver.
Those who have followed the discussions in news group
alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater will not
be surprised at Mr. Ruddy's charges. In particular his
conclusions are consistent with "Foster : Proof of
Homicide", "Foster : Magical Evidence" and "Foster : CW's
Sworn Testimony -- No Gun".
Page 54:
"The first witness to find Vince Foster's body, the man
identified as CW, claimed he saw no gun in either of
Foster's hands when he discovered the body. CW has repeated
this in numerous interviews and in an affadavit made to
several members of Congress. On July 28, 1994, CW told
Congressman Burton of Indiana, 'There was no gun in the
hand. His--both palms were face up, thumbs out to the side...
I did not see a gun next to the body.' "
"The weapon, an old Colt revolver... The Colt company refers
inquiries about such guns to Larry Wilson, who is the
foremost authority on antique Colt weapons. From my [Ruddy]
description Wilson told me [Ruddy] it sounded like a
'drop gun', an old, untraceable gun left at a crime scene
to confuse investigators."
Page 194:
"For example, in the handwritten notes of the FBI inter-
view with Fairfax EMT worker RIchard Arthur, he was
emphatic--more so than his [FBI] statement implies--that he
saw both a wound on Foster's neck and an automatic
pistol in Foster's hand, not the Colt revolver police
later found."
Page 195:
"Agents [FBI] were apparently concerned enough about
Arthur's statements to return to interview him a second
time, focusing on the gun. Again the handwritten notes
show that Arthur was certain the gun in Foster's hand
was not a revolver but an automatic pistol:
[Arthur Statement]
Gun under right hand, tucked under right leg
A pistol not a revolver..."
Page 195:
Later on the same page Ruddy reports that the FBI FD 302
[FD 302 is the formal report compiled from notes] turns
Arthur's statement 180 degrees:
"Instead his [Arthur's] official statement [FD 302] reads:
'Arthur was of the opinion that if the weapon was in fact
a revolver, the cylinder quite possibly could have been
covered-up.' This line in his official statement totally
undermines Arthur's clear recollection..."
Astute readers will recall that the same subterfuge was
applied to CW's alleged statement in the Fiske report. Cw
is there described as failing to see a gun that "might"
have been "hidden" by foliage.
Page 52:
"If Arthur is correct, the gun found in Foster's hand may
have been switched sometime after the police arrived."
"Arthur was emphatic about this, noting the distinguishing
characteristics of semiautomatics and revolvers."
"What little photographic evidence remains of the death
scene appears to show that at some point the gun was
moved or switched after the Park Police arrived."
Page 53:
"Park Police spokesman Major Richard Hines had said in
January 1994 that ... the gun [Ft. Marcy .38 Colt] was
never positively identified by the family."
"Yet documents obtained by the Fiske investigators show conclusively
that the gun [Ft. Marcy .38 Colt] was not owned by Foster's
father and had not been part of his father's collection."
"The Foster children [adults] too, said it was not a gun
owned by their father."
John Moore
Mike>>Schneider
In article <6j505b$t...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>In <6j3bhk$p...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John
>Moore ) writes:
>>
>>0509982150
>
>Test9 of 9
I see all nine.
John Moore
In <ChooChoo-100...@m18-1-8.pconline.com>
Choo...@pconline.com (Mike>>Schneider) writes:
>
>In article <6j505b$t...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
>jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>In <6j3bhk$p...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John
>>Moore ) writes:
>>>
>>>0509982150
>>
>>Test9 of 9
>
>
> I see all nine.
>
Thanks. Several posts never showed last week.
Maniacal
John Moore wrote in message <6j5eae$e...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
Well I see 12.
I think there is an imposter on the loose.
----
Maniacal
>
Mike<<Schneider
>Seriously, when are you going to throw in the towel visa vie Foster.
(With great restraint, I resist the spelling flame...aw shit. Blew it.)
When they dig him up for an indendantly-run autopsy.
And ask Slick what happened to the tapes.
*That* is when, fuckwad.
Ford
>In article <3556a129...@news.alt.net>, gar...@gte.net (Ford) wrote:
>
>>Seriously, when are you going to throw in the towel visa vie Foster.
>
>
> (With great restraint, I resist the spelling flame...aw shit. Blew it.)
>
>
> When they dig him up for an indendantly-run autopsy.
>
> And ask Slick what happened to the tapes.
>
>
> *That* is when, fuckwad.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
By all means, lets dig him up, we have an *independent council* with
an agenda and nothing to work with other than Clinton's sex life. One
has to wonder why he isn't pursuing this matter aggressively. Oh,
that's right, BOTH special prosecutors have already investigated the
matter and ruled the death a suicide.
Nice try air head, but it's not my responsibility to keep you from
being swayed by right wing fools such as jerry falwell and his ilk to
who truth and evidence take on no meaning whatsoever.
Ford
Mike<<Schneider
>On Mon, 11 May 1998 01:59:02 -0500, Choo...@pconline.com
>(Mike<<Schneider) wrote:
>
>>In article <3556a129...@news.alt.net>, gar...@gte.net (Ford) wrote:
>>
>>>Seriously, when are you going to throw in the towel visa vie Foster.
>>
>>
>> (With great restraint, I resist the spelling flame...aw shit. Blew it.)
>>
>>
>> When they dig him up for an indendantly-run autopsy.
>>
>> And ask Slick what happened to the tapes.
>>
>>
>> *That* is when, fuckwad.
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>By all means, lets dig him up, we have an *independent council*
Who hired him? Tell me again about that "independant" crap.
Were you born a moron, or did it take years of practice?
>with
>an agenda and nothing to work with other than Clinton's sex life. One
>has to wonder why he isn't pursuing this matter aggressively. Oh,
>that's right, BOTH special prosecutors have already investigated the
>matter and ruled the death a suicide.
Oh well, then....
Just turn off your brain and leave this issure to the smart people.
Run along now.
Ford
>>By all means, lets dig him up, we have an *independent council*
>
>
> Who hired him? Tell me again about that "independant" crap.
>
> Were you born a moron, or did it take years of practice?
>
Do I detect an inference that in your opinion Ken Starr is a Clinton
supporter?
>
>>with
>>an agenda and nothing to work with other than Clinton's sex life. One
>>has to wonder why he isn't pursuing this matter aggressively. Oh,
>>that's right, BOTH special prosecutors have already investigated the
>>matter and ruled the death a suicide.
>
>
> Oh well, then....
>
> Just turn off your brain and leave this issure to the smart people.
>
> Run along now.
You're a typical right wing airhead. If you don't have the facts,
attack the messenger.
Ford
>There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the
>Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
>replaced with something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
>
>There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
>
>Douglas Adams
karen
Morpheus wrote:
> On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
> Foster committed suicide. To put forth any other theory, after five
> investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only makes you
> look stupid.
>
> It's your choice.
I'm still undecided whether it was suicide or murder. There is however
overwhelming evidence ofa cover-up in his death. Why? There are entirely
too many inconsistencies not addressed by any of the investigations. And
the inconsistencies are major ones not the usual differences you get when
interviewing many witnessess, that is, the ones that are made available to
you to question.
Of course, losing evidence doesn't lend an investigation any credibility
either.
Neither does withholding evidence.
I don't care how Mr Foster died, I want to know what the big secret is all
about after he died.
David Martin
Morpheus wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 May 1998 18:24:26 -0500, karen <don...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Morpheus wrote:
> >
> >> On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
> >>
> >> Foster committed suicide. To put forth any other theory, after five
> >> investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only makes you
> >> look stupid.
> >>
> >> It's your choice.
> >
> >I'm still undecided whether it was suicide or murder. There is however
> >overwhelming evidence ofa cover-up in his death. Why?
>
>
> >There are entirely too many inconsistencies not addressed by any of the
> >investigations. And the inconsistencies are major ones not the usual
> >differences you get when interviewing many witnessess, that is, the
> >ones that are made available to you to question.
>
> that's the end of it. As bad as the Clinton haters want to hang
> something on him, if there were anything there, it would have come
> out. The reason nothing has came out is because there is nothing
> there. Only a lunatic would follow such a long dead trail.
>
> I suggest you stop reading books by far-right-wing-kooks and look at
> the real facts.
>
> >Of course, losing evidence doesn't lend an investigation any credibility
> >either.
> >
> >Neither does withholding evidence.
> >
> >I don't care how Mr Foster died, I want to know what the big secret is all
> >about after he died.
>
> gun to his head and pulled the trigger. It happens everyday.
Then why did the medical examiner, Dr. Donald Haut, describe the wound
as "mouth to neck" in his official report and why was the existence of
that report suppressed? And if he was really depressed and taking
medication why did the family originally say "with certainty" that he
was not being treated for depression and why was it necessary to forge a
"semi-suicide note" and place it in a briefcase that had been thoroughly
emptied out and inventoried?
And if there was no cover-up, perhaps Morpheus has a good explanation
for each of the following anomalies in the case:
Why Foster's fingerprints weren't on the gun in his hand
Why no bullets to the gun could be found in Foster's possession other
than the spent one and the unspent one in the revolver's cylinder
Why the Park Police would officially conclude suicide, carried out
with the gun found in Foster's hand, two days before they sent the gun
to be tested to see not just if it had been fired or if it would produce
powder smudges, but even if it was actually operative
Why no family members could positively identify the gun as belonging
to Foster
How Foster's body came to be lying so curiously straight
Why there was none of the blood and gore at the site which is typical
of such suicides
Why Foster chose such an odd place for the deed
Why Foster chose such a bad time. His sister Sharon was arriving from
Little Rock that day, with her daughter, and they were going to have
lunch in the White House the next day. In his last conversation with
the younger of his two sons he had discussed plans to buy a boat.
Why Foster even bothered to come to work that day if he was planning
to kill himself
How Foster could eat a hefty meal shortly before taking his own life
from depression
Why the fatal bullet could not be located
Why Foster's teeth were not chipped from the recoil of a revolver
which has a high front sight
Why the police concluded suicide so readily
Why the police apparently took none of the steps to rule out homicide
typically required in such violent death cases
Why the police assigned as lead investigator someone who had never
before conducted a homicide investigation
Why President Clinton concluded suicide so readily
Why the president saw fit the day after the death, July 21, to retain
expensive criminal lawyer, David Kendall, who has the Washington Post as
another of his clients
Why there were no Foster fingerprints on the note that had been torn
into 28 pieces
How those who initially searched Foster's briefcase and proclaimed it
empty could have overlooked every one of the pieces of paper that later
came tumbling out when the briefcase was turned on its end
Why no one at the Foster house the night he died could think of any
reason he would have committed suicide
Why Lisa Foster told the investigating officer he had not been taking
any medication
Why the family would have said with certainty that Foster was not
being treated for depression
Why the toxicologist found no drugs in his system
Why the note sounded so much more like the work of a high school
sophomore than it did like the writing of a polished litigator
Why the family would be so concerned that the general public not see a
photocopy of the note, as opposed to the text of the note
Why the police made no serious, objective effort to authenticate the
note, though they claimed they did
Why no one saw Foster in the five hours between his departure from the
White House building proper (not the enclosed, secured White House
compound) and the discovery of his body
Why there is no video record of Foster's departure from the White
House compound considering the extreme security-consciousness of the
Secret Service protectors of the facility
Why the authorities could produce no records of the required
long-distance calls for the prescription of the anti-depressant
Why the family doctor did not come forward immediately to tell of his
prescribing of the medication
Why all the sources telling reporters of Foster's "depression"
requested anonymity
>
> End of story.
If you want to learn more, please go to my web site and read my
"America's Dreyfus Affair, the Case of the Death of Vincent Foster." I
am not by any stretch of the imagination a right-wing nut. I voted for
Bill Clinton (to my regret) in 1992. I took a powerful interest in the
case from the beginning because I went to Davidson College with Vince
Foster and I was living and working in the Washington, DC, area when it
happened.
Oh, and by the way, start trying to think for yourself instead of just
invoking the word of corrupt authority. You might find it refreshing.
--
DC Dave newsgroup: alt.thebird
column: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2932/index.html
poetry: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2932/poetry.html
Ford
On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>Magical Foster Evidence
>
>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
>items even while straining all credulity with
>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
>Magic is popular where science and logic are
>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
>labeled propaganda as shown below.
If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe that
2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very unlikely.
Billy Beck
Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>The man committed suicide
*Prove* it.
Billy
VRWC fronteer - sigdiv
http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/free/essays.html
Michael Rivero
In article <355d65fd...@news.supernews.com>,
Morpheus <Morp...@eleusis.org> wrote:
>On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>
>investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only makes you
>look stupid.
>
In order to believe the suicide theory to be valid, one must accept that
Vincent Foster placed a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the
trigger without getting any of his fingerprints or his blood on the gun
or powder or bullet fragments from the gun into the wound.
A short list of FACTS from the OFFICIAL RECORDS.
No blood on the gun. FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 10.
No fingerprints belonging to Vincent Foster on the gun. FBI Memo attached
to lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 2.
No powder, which could be matched to the dark blued steel gun, was found in the wounds.
FBI lab report dated May 9th 1994, page 8.
No bullet fragments in the wounds. Beyer Autopsy, Gross Description
page, next to last paragraph.
I repeat: The claim of suicide requires Vincent Foster to have inserted
a .38 revolver into his own mouth and pulled the trigger without getting
hi fingerprints or blood on that gun or powder or bullet fragments from
that gun in his wounds.
Dr. Beyer's autopsy, on which every claim of suicide has been based, has been
utterly destroyed by the discovery of the official report of Dr. Haut, the
M.E. that examined Vincent Foster at Fort Marcy Park. This report was
uncovered at the National Archives during a document search by Hugh Sprunt,
Hughie2U, and Patrick Knowlton. While part of the official records of the
Foster case, Dr. Haut's report was notably absent from the report published
by the Senate Banking Committee.
Dr. Haut reconfirmed the report to Reed Irvine of "Accuracy In Media"
and in that report, confirms the presence of a gunshot wound exiting
Vincent Foster's neck. This corroborates the sworn deposition of EMS
technician Richard Arthur who described a gunshot wound along Foster's
jaw line under the right ear.
Dr. Beyer did not include that wound in his autopsy report. Indeed, that
wound was obliterated by the drastic measure of removing Foster's entire
tongue and soft pallet prior to allowing investigators to view the remains,
under the excuse that the removal was needed to properly inspect the
entrance wound.
Beyer's past history isn't the most reassuring. Indeed he seems to be
the Virginia version of the infamous Dr. Fahmy Malek, the Arkansas
M.E. who ignored clear evidence of homicide in the deaths of Don Henry
and Kevin Ives and in one case ruled that a man who had been beheaded was dead
of natural causes.
Beyer himself, in the case of Tommy Burkett, ignored a broken jaw in order
to rule that Burkett had killed himself with a gun. Despite having shown
the autopsy photos to Burkett's father, Beyer later claimed (as he did with
the Foster X-rays) that they had never really existed.
Likewise, in 1989 there was an autopsy on establishing the death of a man
named Tim Easley. Mr. Beyer, the coroner, ruled that Easley killed himself
by stabbing himself in the chest. He failed to notice a defensive wound on
the man's hand. The case was reopened, and, after an outside expert reviewed
the case, Easley's girlfriend confessed to murdering him.
In short, Dr. Beyer's consistent performance (indeed his "specialty")
appears to be the cover-up of murder by declaration of suicide!
Beyer testified before the Senate Banking Committee Whitewater Hearings
on July 29, 1994, specifically stating that there is an "absence of trauma
to the jaw." It should be noted that Beyer has therefore committed perjury
before the United States Senate.
Scans of Dr. Haut's actual report are available for viewing and download
at http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/NECK/neck.html
Scans of Dr. Beyer's flawed autopsy are available for viewing and download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/AUTOPSY/autopsy.html
Then there is the matter of the silver gun.
Vincent Foster was found with a .38 Revolver made by Colt Arms. It was
built from parts taken from two other guns, and as a result had two
serial numbers. The Frame number was 355055, and according to the
records of the Colt Arms company (scanned and available at my website)
the gun was manufactured with a standard dark blue, almost black, finish.
In the Park Police record, the gun is describes as black. The accompanying
photographs in the Park police report show a black gun. (Also scanned and
available at my website.)
The photograph leaked by the White House to ABC-TV also shows a dark gun.
Outside of a glint from the camera flash, the gun image is too dark to
even detect the manufacturers blue color. One thing is quite clear, and that
is that the sharp protruding edges of the gun, where the finish would wear
off preferentially, show no signs of wear. Compare the albedo of the gun to
Fosters gold ring on his finger, just an inch away.
In all the Fort Marcy Park witnesses, in the Park Police, in the experts
at the FBI and ballistics lab, the gun is never described as anything but
dark blue or (more often) black.
No connection exists between that gun and Vincent Foster. Not even
fingerprints. Not even blood. Even the DNA traces on the gun, while "not
inconsistent" with Foster, were more likely to have originated with a black or
an Hispanic than a Caucasian.
Despite this, Robert Fiske (the ex-BCCI lawyer) inserted a comment on
page 38 of his report on Foster; a statement that Lisa Foster thought the gun
found with her husband was one she had brought up from Little Rock, Arkansas.
This statement came from an interview of Lisa Foster conducted by the FBI
several months after the murder of Vincent Foster, under the watchful eyes
of attorney Jim Hamilton and Fiske's representative on the scene, Roderick
Lankler.
In the original FD-302a report of the interview, as well as the handwritten
notes (scanned and available at my website), the interviewing FBI agents
describe the gun being shown to Lisa Foster as "silver colored", not just
once, but several times. The gun is never described as dark blue or black.
The FBI agents are not quoting Lisa Foster, they write down THEIR impressions
of what is being said and done, and in their own words, "LISA FOSTER believes
that the gun found at Fort Marcy Park may be the silver gun, which she brought
up with her other belongings when she permanently moved to Washington."
In order for Lisa Foster to believe that the gun presented to her as the
Fort Marcy Park gun might be the family silver gun, the gun presented to
her as the Fort Marcy Park gun must also be silver. Lisa Foster doesn't
have to be a gun expert to know that silver is not black.
From both the FD-302a form (released as part of the first Senate
Whitewater hearings) and the handwritten notes (pried loose via Chris
Ruddy's FOIA lawsuit), it's clear that Lisa Foster was shown a gun she
recognized as the gun she brought up from Little Rock, but it's equally
clear that this is not the same gun as that found with Vincent Foster.
Black is not silver.
Once found out, this lie generated more lies to try to keep the cover-up
in place, including the ludicrous suggestions that Lisa Foster cannot tell
silver from black, and that two FBI agents, and two lawyers heard and saw
a black gun described as silver in writing and did not request a clarification
or (as would be standard procedure) note the gun's serial number to preserve
the chain of evidence.
One thing is clear, regardless of just exactly how the FBI's report came to
describe a silver gun, it is utterly worthless in connection to the dark
blued steel .38 found with Vincent Foster, yet that is precisely how Fiske
chose to use it, paraphrasing (minus gun color, of course) Lisa's statement
into his report to link the .38 revolver to Vincent Foster.
The Fiske Report, having based its conclusion that Vincent Foster owned
the dark blued steel revolver he was found with solely on Lisa Foster's
recognition of a silver gun, is invalidated.
The FBI, already in court for evidence tampering in another area of the
Vincent Foster affair, manufactured the testimony of Lisa Foster as it
was used in the Fiske Report.
This pattern of repeated alterations in evidence and testimony proves
the existence of a cover-up, which in turn proves murder.
Scans of the official FBI records regarding the showing of the wrong
gun to Lisa Foster are available for viewing and download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html
--
Mike & Claire - The Rancho Runnamukka http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html
Awarded a Lycos "Top 5%" of the web!
Michael Rivero
In article <355b9cf8...@news.supernews.com>,
Morpheus <Morp...@eleusis.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 May 1998 18:24:26 -0500, karen <don...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>>>
>>> Foster committed suicide. To put forth any other theory, after five
>>> investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only makes you
>>> look stupid.
>>>
>>> It's your choice.
>>
>>I'm still undecided whether it was suicide or murder. There is however
>>overwhelming evidence ofa cover-up in his death. Why?
>
>
>
Sure there is, much of it presently in Federal Court in Patrick Knowlton's
lawsuit against the FBI.
There's the way that the FBI manufactured Lisa Foster's testimony
regarding the gun found with her husband's body.
Vincent Foster was found with a .38 Revolver made by Colt Arms. It was
built from parts taken from two other guns, and as a result had two
serial numbers. The Frame number was 355055, and according to the
records of the Colt Arms company (scanned and available at my website)
the gun was manufactured with a standard dark blue, almost black, finish.
In the Park Police record, the gun is describes as black. The accompanying
photographs in the Park police report show a black gun. (Also scanned and
available at my website.)
The photograph leaked by the White House to ABC-TV also shows a dark gun.
Outside of a glint from the camera flash, the gun image is too dark to
even detect the manufacturers blue color. One thing is quite clear, and that
is that the sharp protruding edges of the gun, where the finish would wear
off preferentially, show no signs of wear. Compare the albedo of the gun to
Foster'`s gold ring on his finger, just an inch away.
Michael Rivero
In article <355e099e...@news.alt.net>, Ford <gar...@gte.net> wrote:
>On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>
>>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
>>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
>>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
>>items even while straining all credulity with
>>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
>>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
>>Magic is popular where science and logic are
>>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
>>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
>>labeled propaganda as shown below.
>
>2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very unlikely.
>
The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it becomes
obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the holocaust
from the German people, is in place.
The first of the independent councils, Robert Fiske, was hardly
an exemplary man. He was a lawyer with BCCI, and is therefore tainted
by that organization's ties to drug money. Certainly in the context
of a President who's campaigns were also touched by drug money, the
motive for collusion is obvious.
The cover-up is proven. Those who, like Fiske and Starr, perpetuate that
cover-up, damn themselves.
Remember when the Clintons first took office, there was a rash of sudden
congressional resignations? At the time, it was put out that these were
all the work of an "Angel of death", the agent of a renegade band of
intelligence operatives determined to rid government of corrupt officials.
Except that the wrong people seemed to get targeted, while the more
obviously corrupt never were. In hindsight it seems as if, fueled by
the purloined FBI files, anyone in government that might pose a serious
threat to the administration was being encouraged to leave, or was
"suicided".
The moral and the immoral are mutually exclusive societies. Neither
tolerates the presence of the other. Once a government goes corrupt, it
will evolve to total corruption with historical inevitability. The old joke
that all politicians are crooks has, in the present situation, a stark
and cold reality to it.
History has shown that the honorable man will lose out to the teller of
white lies who will lose out to the teller of black lies, who will lose
out to the thief who will lose out to the extortionist who will lose out
to the drug runner who will lose out to the murderer who will lose out
to the genocidal tyrant.
The question in these dark times is not what our government is capable
of, but what is our government NOT capable of.
Ford
On 14 May 1998 10:22:46 -0700, riv...@accessone.com (Michael Rivero)
wrote:
> >If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe that
> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very unlikely.
> >
>
> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it becomes
>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the holocaust
>from the German people, is in place.
Paranoia is treatable, seek help.
Ford
Billy Beck
Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>wrote:
>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>
>>>The man committed suicide
>> *Prove* it.
>
>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>
>Prove he didn't.
Prove the negative? And *I'm* the "ignorant asshole"?
Aside from your "ignoran[ce]" of basic logic, I'm just going to
point out that it's the responsibility of the party making the
positive assertion to "prove it", not the other way 'round. I don't
know what *you* know about the case, but the assertion of suicide
isn't even close to being proved to me. If you really think Vince
Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in Ft. Marcy Park, I'd like you to
explain your reasons to me.
Or, you could just blank out the whole deal and stand there like
a little kid telling me that there is a Santa Claus and that I should
prove there isn't.
David Martin
> > >On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
> > >>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
> > >>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
> > >>items even while straining all credulity with
> > >>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
> > >>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
> > >>Magic is popular where science and logic are
> > >>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
> > >>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
> > >>labeled propaganda as shown below.
> > >
> > >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
> > >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very unlikely.
> > >
> >
> > The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it becomes
> >obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
> >Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the holocaust
> >from the German people, is in place.
>
> you keep referring to with no proof.
>
> Surely you aren't so small minded, that all you have is some
> right-wing propaganda books?
>
> So, knock yourself out, and put your money where your mouth is, and
> show some real evidence, and the source for that evidence. Right-wing
> books don't count.
>
> Please do tell us why Ken Starr is covering up for the president.
>
> <snip another load of bullshit>
My "America's Dreyfus Affair, the Case of the Death of Vincent
Foster,"(now in 4 parts and 118 pages on my web site) is a far cry from
a "right-wing propaganda book" and I am a far cry from a standard
right-winger, as my detractors on this forum will gladly tell you. You
are certainly reading from the approved script to suggest that only
right-wing nuts question the government's obviously phony Foster
"suicide" story. The Washington Times, as a matter of fact, has an
article today perpetuating that myth. Maybe that's why Chris Ruddy
dropped me like a hot potato when I came out with the first installment
of "Dreyfus." I punctured their well-cultivated myth.
Begone, shill.
Mark Roddy
wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck) wrote:
>
>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>>
>>>>The man committed suicide
>
>>> *Prove* it.
>>
>>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>>
>>Prove he didn't.
>
> Prove the negative? And *I'm* the "ignorant asshole"?
>
Uh, given that murder implies not suicide and suicide implies not
murder, simply proving either murder or suicide also proves not
suicide or not murder
Michael Rivero
In article <35643882...@news.supernews.com>,
Morpheus <Morp...@eleusis.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 May 1998 15:45:39 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The man committed suicide
>>
>>>> *Prove* it.
>>>
>>>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>>>
>>>Prove he didn't.
>>
>> Prove the negative? And *I'm* the "ignorant asshole"?
>>
>>point out that it's the responsibility of the party making the
>>positive assertion to "prove it", not the other way 'round. I don't
>>know what *you* know about the case, but the assertion of suicide
>>isn't even close to being proved to me. If you really think Vince
>>Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in Ft. Marcy Park, I'd like you to
>>explain your reasons to me.
>>
>> Or, you could just blank out the whole deal and stand there like
>>a little kid telling me that there is a Santa Claus and that I should
>>prove there isn't.
>
>the end of the story.
>
>Unless you know something that the police don't.
>
Morpheus, you missed a major point of law. In all cases of unattended
death, homicide is the presumption. Suicide MUST be proven. the law is
written this way because of the largee number (more in recent years) of
homicides which are covered up as suicides, including two prior cases
by Foster autopsist Dr. James C. Beyer.
The burden of proof is indeed on those who claim that Foster committed
suicide. And the facts in that case do not support the conclusion of
suicide.
The so-caled suicides note (identified by Lisa Foster as actually the
outline of Foster's resignation letter) is at least in part a forgery,
with clear indications of being written by two different hands.
The gun found with Foster had no connection to him. No blood on it. No
fingerprints anywhere on the smooth metal revolver (and we know Foster
was not in condition to wipe it clean after it was supposed to have been
used by him). No powder granules from that gun were found in Foster's
wounds, and no bullet fragments were recovered from the wound track out of
the back of the head, a wound track which a recently discovered FBI memo
confirms did not exist while Foster's body was still at Fort Marcy Park.
The claim that Lisa Foster had identified that gun turned out to be a fraud;
the FBI's own records prove that her testimony was manufactured by showing
her a silver gun.
The signed report of Dr. Haut confirms eyewitness testimony to an
additional wound on Foster's neck; a wound which has been concealed in the
official pronoucements.
Finally, there is the blood issue. Eyewitnesses at Fort Marcy Park
reported just a "trickle" of blood from the mouth and nose of Vincent
Foster's body. Yet any forensics expert (confirmed by the video of an actual
suicide at my website) will tell you that when the brain is destroyed, the
heart continues to beat as long as it has blood to feed it. This is why
head trauma victims provide most donor hearts. Following the gunshot to
the head, Foster's heart should have continued to beat for at least 90
more seconds, pumping most of his blood tissue out through his mouth and
the shattered sinuses. The absence of copious amounts of blood prove
that Foster's heart was already stopped when the gunshot to the head was
inflicted, and had been stopped long enough for all residual blood pressure
to have fallen to zero. In other words, Foster was already dead of another
concealed cause before the gunshot was fired into his mouth.
The existance of a cover-up is proven by the official records of the FBI.
And since there is no need to cover-up a suicide, then we are dealing
with a murder.
One to which you, Morpheus, are an accessory after-the-fact.
Michael Rivero
In article <356539be...@news.supernews.com>,
Morpheus <Morp...@eleusis.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 May 1998 13:02:03 -0400, David Martin <dcd...@erols.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>You are certainly reading from the approved script to suggest that only
>>right-wing nuts question the government's obviously phony Foster
>>"suicide" story.
>
>
>
You're behind the times, Morph. According to a recent Zogby poll, 70%
of Americans know the government is lying about Foster.
That means 70% of those reading this message recognize that Dave has
you correctly identified as an operative (not to mention an accessory
after-the-fact to a murder).
Ted Frank
In article <6jkfmr$2a5$1...@blaze.accessone.com>,
Michael Rivero <riv...@accessone.com> wrote:
> >I suggest that you get a life. Foster committed suicide and that is
> >the end of the story.
> >
> >Unless you know something that the police don't.
Not to mention four independent investigations.
>outline of Foster's resignation letter) is at least in part a forgery,
>with clear indications of being written by two different hands.
That's not what Lisa Foster says.
>the FBI's own records prove that her testimony was manufactured by showing
>her a silver gun.
False.
> Finally, there is the blood issue. Eyewitnesses at Fort Marcy Park
>reported just a "trickle" of blood from the mouth and nose of Vincent
>Foster's body.
As you've been told multiple times, Foster's body was on a hill at an
angle; the blood went to his feet, and the copious amount of blood came
when he was moved to the ambulance.
You're deluded, but at least you're not lying and claiming that Foster
was left-handed.
--
http://www.radix.net/~moe
you don't win friends with salad
phil...@geocities.com
> >Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
> >>wrote:
> >
> >>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>The man committed suicide
> >
> >>> *Prove* it.
> >>
> >>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
> >>
> >>Prove he didn't.
> >
> > Prove the negative? And *I'm* the "ignorant asshole"?
> >
> > Aside from your "ignoran[ce]" of basic logic, I'm just going to
> >point out that it's the responsibility of the party making the
> >positive assertion to "prove it", not the other way 'round. I don't
> >know what *you* know about the case, but the assertion of suicide
> >isn't even close to being proved to me.
The only thing Morpheus "knows" about the Foster matter
is that Clinton shills are supposed to promote the suicide
theory at all costs; hence the feeble fallacies.
> >If you really think Vince Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in Ft.
> >Marcy Park, I'd like you to explain your reasons to me.
Don't hold your breath; idol worshippers like Morpheus do
not operate via reason when regurgitating their propaganda
line. Morpheus believes the Foster matter has something
negative to do with Clinton and therefore the anti-suicide
theorists must be denounced at all costs.
To Morpheus this thread is not about uncomfortable facts
surrounding Foster's death; it's about a falsely perceived
need to protect Morpheus' idol -- Clintoon.
> > Or, you could just blank out the whole deal and stand there like
> >a little kid telling me that there is a Santa Claus and that I should
> >prove there isn't.
>
> I suggest that you get a life.
The "get a life" line is standard drivel spewed by those
who know have nothing substantive to say in an argument.
Why am I not surprised Morpheus used it here?
> Foster committed suicide and that is the end of the story.
>
> Unless you know something that the police don't.
Because the "government" (so-called) says
it's so, does not necessarily make it so:
America's Dreyfus Affair
<http://www.aci.net/kalliste/dreyfus.htm>
R. Knauer
>> >If you really think Vince Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in Ft.
>> >Marcy Park, I'd like you to explain your reasons to me.
Whoever said Foster was shot in the Park? I thought the theory was
that he was shot somewhere else and transported there.
BTW, how is it that the blood on his forehead ran uphill? And why did
he kill himself with his weak hand?
Maybe there are explanations for those and other discrepencies, but I
have never seen them. Has anybody?
Bob Knauer
"So long as any large group of persons, anywhere on this earth,
believe the ancient supersition that some Authority is responsible
for their welfare, they will set up some image of that Authority
and try to obey it. And the result will be poverty and warfare."
-- Rose Wilder Lane, "The Discovery Of Freedom"
Wayne Mann
Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>On Fri, 15 May 1998 15:45:39 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The man committed suicide
>>
>>>> *Prove* it.
>>>
>>>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>>>
>>>Prove he didn't.
>>
>> Prove the negative? And *I'm* the "ignorant asshole"?
>>
>> Aside from your "ignoran[ce]" of basic logic, I'm just going to
>>point out that it's the responsibility of the party making the
>>positive assertion to "prove it", not the other way 'round. I don't
>>know what *you* know about the case, but the assertion of suicide
>>isn't even close to being proved to me. If you really think Vince
>>Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in Ft. Marcy Park, I'd like you to
>>explain your reasons to me.
>>
>> Or, you could just blank out the whole deal and stand there like
>>a little kid telling me that there is a Santa Claus and that I should
>>prove there isn't.
>
>I suggest that you get a life. Foster committed suicide and that is
>the end of the story.
>
>Unless you know something that the police don't.
I don't know about the "police" because what police are you
talking about, tha Park Police, FBI, who? However I do knpow
Billy knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do and he is
right. But now since you claim to know so much, I will just let
you explain thses litlle discrepancies.
Inaccuracies Regarding Foster's Death (Excerpt)
There follows a list of suspicious events, observations, and
circumstances, taken from the 2,726 pages of the 1994
Senate Hearings and Report Volumes that cover the death
of Vince Foster. If you would like to receive a 160 page
synopsis of this material, put together by Stanford and MIT
grad Hugh Sprunt, in text format. Let me know and I will
send a copy by attaching to e-mail.
The FBI fingerprint expert that testified before the Senate
Whitewater Committee said that he received 28 pieces of the
"suicide note" and he returned 28 pieces. The White House
and the media always claim that there are only 27 pieces,
with one missing. Who is telling the truth? Not a single
Senator followed up on this statement, and I am not aware
of a single report in the media about it.
Dr. Beyer testified to the committee that HE did not take
any X-rays, because his X-ray machine was broken,
although he had written on the autopsy form that he had,
and the two policemen who were in attendance at the
autopsy said that he told them that he had. However, in Dr.
Beyer's Deposition to the Committee, he stated that he sent
the body out to another facility for the X-rays. He further
said that the X-rays were not processed and back to him by
the time he did the autopsy. And furthermore, the X-ray
machine service company was never called, and never did
any repairs on the new X-ray machine for many months
before or after the date of the autopsy. Which testimony is
the truth and which is a lie?
Also contained within the Park Police Report is the
following statement: "Dr. Beyer stated that X-rays indicated
that there was no evidence of bullet fragments in the head."
Bear in mind this statement is in the OFFICIAL Park Police
Report issued to the public. Later testifying before the U.S.
Senate in 1994, Dr. Beyer swore he took no X- rays and
"had no explanation" for telling Detective Peter Simonello
his X-ray results were in July of 1993.
Deborah Gorham, Foster's secretary, testified that she
placed two large manila envelopes in the safe-- both
addressed "For Eyes Only"--one to White House Associate
Counsel William Kennedy, the other to Attorney General
Janet Reno. She also testified that Nussbaum asked for the
combination to this safe immediately after Foster's death.
Gorham also testified that there were two National Security
Folders she put in the safe for Foster. They are also
missing. An entire box of files containing the Clintons'
personal files was removed from Foster's office, and an
itemized index of Foster's files which was present in his
office on the 20th disappeared. In addition Foster did not
have a Security Clearance that we are aware of. Deborah
Gorham told investigators for Kenneth Starr that on the day
before he died, Foster received a document related to
Systematics. And this was a document that disappeared
from his office after his death. What happened to the three
envelopes? What was in them? Why did Foster leave
them? Kennedy testified he did NOT receive his envelope
and does NOT know what happened to it.
On page 4022 and 4023 of Volume XIV, there is a report
by a Secret Service agent to his boss about being questioned
about Foster's death. His boss told him to call B.C. about
it. He did call B.C. and was instructed to tell the FBI that
he wouldn't talk to them unless they went through Public
Affairs at FBI Headquarters. (Who is B.C. Dies it mean
Bureau Chief?) This Secret Service Agent is in the Division
that does the Locks, Alarms, and VIDEO at the White
House. Does this have to do with the "missing tapes" of
Foster leaving the White House and the Missing tape of the
storage for the first tape? Does it have anything to do with
Nussbaum gaining access to Foster's safe (the night he died)
to retrieve the envelopes that were in there to be hand-
delivered in case of his death?
On pages 1782, 1783, and 1784 of the Senate report, there
is a report of a father-son towing company towing a car to
the FBI garage from Ft. Marcy Park the same evening that
Foster died. It had the driver’s side-window broken out and
blood all over the dash. What is the bottom line on this?
The FBI did NOT go talk to these people as was reported to
the committee. An agent called the father on the phone,
which was several months later, and he denied it. Why
didn't the FBI at least go talk to both of these people in
person, rather than just talking to the father on the phone?
How did he shoot himself, throw his glasses 19 feet through
some heavy brush, and end up lying supine and perfectly
straight, legs together, with arms straight down at his side,
the gun still in his hand, and trickles of blood running from
his mouth in several directions, including uphill? How did a
particle of exploded gunpowder get on his glasses that did
NOT come from the bullet that he supposedly killed himself
with? That indicates that another bullet had been fired
besides the one that supposedly killed him. But wait, he
only fired one bullet! Where did the exploded gun powder
from a second bullet come from then?(Page 43, Fiske
Report.)
Marsha Scott, who is know by the insiders as, "Bill's Hippy
Girl-friend," met with her friend of 20 years, Foster, in an
unusual one to two hour closed door meeting the day before
he died. Yet she says that she cannot remember what they
talked about. After Foster died, the only thing Ms. Scott
could remember discussing from her long meeting was that
Foster had a good weekend.
Three of the top experts in the world in "questionable"
documents claim that the "suicide note" is a forgery. The
credentials of these people make it hard to not believe them;
therefore the "suicide note" is a forgery. Who forged it?
Who knew it was a forgery?
Foster made one day trips to Switzerland that his wife was
never aware of. He had purchased another ticket to go to
Switzerland about a week after he died, and had canceled it,
and had then bought another ticket to somewhere, for
approximately the same price. Where was this ticket
scheduled to take him and for what purpose? No one has
reported an investigation into Vince Foster's 1988 trip to
Bataan, Turkish Kurdistan, to which there are no scheduled
airline flights.
Did you know that the first thing Mrs. Foster said to the
Police when told her husband was dead, was ask, "did he
[Foster] put the gun in his own mouth"? How do you
explain that. How did she know he had been shot? And
assuming she saw that he was shot in her crystal ball, why
did she ask if he put the gun in his own mouth? Who did
she think might have done it? (Page 21-Report 103-433)
The photograph of Foster’s hand was obtained by Reuters
News Agency and broadcast by ABC Television shortly
after Vincent Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park.
This photograph purports to show the right hand of Vincent
Foster holding the handgun with which he supposedly shot
himself in the mouth. Aside from the obvious lack of blood
in the scene, please note the color of the handgun, which is
dark. This color matches the description of the gun as
reported in the previous Senate Whitewater hearings.
Vincent Foster was found with a .38 Revolver made by
Colt Arms. It was built from parts taken from two other
guns, and as a result had two serial numbers. The Frame
number was 355055, and according to the records of the
Colt Arms company (scanned and available at my website)
the gun was manufactured with a standard dark blue, almost
black, finish.
In the Park Police record, the gun is describes as black.
The accompanying photographs in the Park police report
show a black gun. (Also scanned and available at my
website.)
The photograph leaked by the White House to ABC-TV
also shows a dark gun. Outside of a glint from the camera
flashgun, the gun image is too dark to even detect the
manufacturers blue color. One thing is quite clear, and that
is that the sharp protruding edges of the gun, where the
finish would wear off preferentially, show no signs of wear.
Compare the albedo of the gun to Fosters gold ring on his
finger, just an inch away.
In all the Fort Marcy Park witnesses, in the Park Police, in
the experts at the FBI and ballistics lab, the gun is never
described as anything but dark blue or (more often) black.
No connection exists between that gun and Vincent Foster.
Not even fingerprints. Not even blood. Even the DNA
traces on the gun, while "not inconsistant" with Foster, were
more likely to have originated with a black or an Hispanic
than a Caucasian.
Despite this, Robert Fiske (the ex-BCCI lawyer) inserted a
comment on page 38 of his report on Foster; a statement
that Lisa Foster thought the gun found with her husband was
one she had brought up from Little Rock, Arkansas.
This statement came from an interview of Lisa Foster
conducted by the FBI several months after the murder of
Vincent Foster, under the watchful eyes of attorney Jim
Hamilton and Fiske's representative on the scene, Roderick
Lankler.
In the original FD-302a report of the interview, as well as
the handwritten notes (scanned and available at my website),
the intervieweing FBI agents describe the gun being shown
to Lisa Foster as "silver colored", not just once, but several
times. The gun is never described as dark blue or black. The
FBI agents are not quoting Lisa Foster, they write down
THEIR impressions of what is being said and done, and in
their own words,"LISA FOSTER believes that the gun
found at Fort Marcy Park may be the silver gun which she
brought up with her other belongings when she permanently
moved to Washington."
In order for Lisa Foster to believe that the gun prsented to
her as the Fort Marcy Park gun might be the family silver
gun, the gun presented to her as the Fort Marcy Park gun
must also be silver. Lisa Foster doesn't have to be a gun
expert to know that silver is not black.
From both the FD-302a form (released as part of the first
Senate Whitewater hearings) and the handwritten notes
(pried loose via Chris Ruddy's FOIA lawsuit), it's clear that
Lisa Foster was shown a gun she recognized as the gun she
brought up from Little Rock, but it's equally clear that this is
not the same gun as that found with Vincent Foster. Black
is not silver.
Once found out, this lie generated more lies to try to keep
the coverup in place, including the ludicrous suggestions that
Lisa Foster cannot tell silver from black, and that two FBI
agents, and two lawyers heard and saw a black gun
described as silver in writing and did not request a
clarification or (as would be standard procedure) note the
gun's serial number to preserve the chain of evidence.
One thing is clear, regardless of just exactly how the FBI's
report came to describe a silver gun, it is utterly worthless in
connection to the dark blued steel .38 found with Vincent
Foster, yet that is precisely how Fiske chose to use it,
paraphrasing (minus gun color, of course) Lisa's statement
into his report to link the .38 revolver to Vincent Foster.
The Fiske Report, having based it's conclusion that Vincent
Foster owned the dark blued steel revolver he was found
with solely on Lisa Foster's recognition of a silver gun, is
invalidated.
The FBI, already in court for evidence tampering in
another area of the Vincent Foster affair, manufactured the
testimony of Lisa Foster as it was used in the Fiske Report.
This pattern of repeated alterations in evidence and
testimony proves the existance of a coverup, which in turn
proves murder.
Scans of the official FBI records regarding the showing of
the wrong gun to Lisa Foster are available for viewing and
download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_C
OVERUP/foster.html
A copy of the picture leaked to the press by the White
House, that supposedly shows the gun in Vince Foster's
hand, was submitted to an expert to have it computer
enhanced, enlarged and/or turned into a composite 3-D
picture. It appears this picture is a FORGERY. However
I want to point out that I am NOT an expert, so I would
advise each person look at them and make your own
decision. The thumb going through the gun is too long
and at a weird angle. We now have a forged "suicide
note," and may well have a forged picture.
Foster's fingerprints were not on the gun.
There is no proof that it was his gun.
Several civilian witnesses saw two suspicious individuals
hanging around Mr. Foster's Honda in the Ft. Marcy
Park parking lot. No attempt was made to find these
individuals until over 2 years after Foster's death.
Several eyewitnesses saw the victim's briefcase in his car,
yet it vanished. Or did they see his briefcase in another
car that has disappeared?
One vehicle seen at park by police and rescue
eyewitnesses is ignored in the official record of the case.
The gun was not seen in hand by the eyewitness who
found the body. CONFIDENTIAL WITNESS, the first
eyewitness, saw no gun nor did USPP Fornshill the first
police witness and probably also the second witness.
A US PP officer took 7 Polaroid's of the body, which are
missing from the record. Another PP officer took several
Polaroid's, all of which are missing. All of the 35 mm
photos taken at the crime scene are missing or claimed
that they were underexposed. However the private
company that the Prosecuting attorney named Rodriquez
that worked for Fiske and then Starr for a short while
said that the photo's could be repaired by computer
enhancement. Rodriquez quit because he was not allowed
to question people under oath and other obstructive
patterns..
"Independent" investigator Fiske was forced to concede
that the victim's head had been moved---after death had
taken place and before his body was photographed.
No bone fragments were found, yet part of the victim's
skull was missing, according to some reports.
According to some reports, Foster's head wound not
consistent with a high velocity .38 caliber bullet. Dr.
Haut's statement to the FBI was that the exit hole was
very small. In total contradiction, the Fiske report says
Dr. Haut's determination was that the hole was very
large. No blood splatter found. (High velocity .38 bullets
through the mouth and head leave spatter!)
Wound seen on Foster's neck by paramedics. One
described it as a bullet hole. No such hole was
mentioned in the autopsy.
A letter mailed to his mother as he left his office for
the last time offered no last farewell.
He was planning to resign his White House position.
Dr. Haut paramedics said they viewed the body in a
location that is 200 feet from the site officially described.
The cannon near where some witnesses say the body
was found has been removed from the park.
One paramedic listed the death as a homicide on his
report.
Blonde hairs were found on the crotch of Foster's pants,
semen was found in his underwear, and his clothes were
covered with pink carpet fibers. None of these pieces of
evidence was investigated in the PP investigation or the
Fiske investigation. Numerous hairs and carpet fibers
covered Foster's clothing. But his car was never checked
to see if any of the same fibers could be found on the
driver's seat, as surely there would have been found, had
he actually driven himself to Fort Marcy Park.
Numerous hairs and carpet fibers covered victims
clothing. Far too many fibers unless he had been laying
on the floor or coming into contact with carpet in some
other way. The myth that his house had new carpet so
that accounts for it is ridiculous. You could walk on new
carpet for a month and never get anywhere close to the
amount of fibers on your clothes that Foster had. There
was also the same fibers all over his coat and tie that were
never in the Park Police custody. They were in car and
went straight to FBI.
Blood was on victim's, belt, shoes, and shirt but NOT on
the gun.
Lisa Foster called Bernard Nussbaum the morning after
Foster's death at 7:30 am and asked if Vince had been
fired. Was she looking for a reason?
Whereabouts of victim in hours before death remains a
mystery.
Only two bullets in the gun. No matching bullets were to
be found in his home or car.
The victim planned to give his visiting sister a tour of the
White House the next day.
The victim's friend and attorney, Jim Lyons, was coming
from Colorado to meet with him the next day.
Foster had a full lunch before leaving to kill himself, was
jovial, and told his staff he would be back later in the day.
In spite of an exhaustive search, no matching bullet was
ever found in Ft. Marcy Park. The FBI closed the Park
and used something like 20 agents to search for about
two months.
The attitude of the body was not consistent with suicide.
It was laid out straight, with arms neatly at his side.
The FBI was kept out of the initial investigation.
The lead investigator assigned to go to the body site
was performing his first homicide investigation.
Victim had been a $300,000 a year lawyer, yet in last
weeks before his death he had a chronically overdrawn
checking account!
Police were prevented from searching victim's home
and office.
The Fiske Report contains numerous factual errors
regarding time and geography at crime scene. It reports
a large pool of blood under Foster's head, even though no
one who was at the site made any such report, and some
of them, including Dr. Haut and Corey Ashford,
specifically stated to the FBI that there was no blood
on the ground. (Ashford is one of the medical technicians
who picked Foster's body up to remove it from the
scene.)
Park Police concluded their investigation before they
sent the gun for testing to see if it could fire.
The crime scene was never totally secured. (There are
access roads near the body-site, in the opposite direction
from the parking lot where Foster's car was found.
Access to the body, from these roads, was never
blocked off in any way.
No damage whatsoever to victim's teeth from the recoil
of a .38, allegedly placed in his mouth. This pistol has a
rather substantial steel aiming device mounted at the top
of the end of the 4-inch barrel.
Conflicting testimony re: the time at which the victim was
identified.
There is no evidence to support the Fiske report that the
victim had lost weight . The only evidence is that he had
gained weight.
Conflicting testimony as to when the White House was
told of the death---from as early as 6:00 PM, according
to the initial report from Chelsea's nanny, to the official
time of 8:30 PM.
The phone number of a Secret Service officer was
found in the notebook of Park Police investigator Rolla.
Immediately following this entry was the address and
phone number of Vince Foster. When asked about this
during his deposition, Rolla got nervous and flustered.
The victim's office, a secondary crime scene, was
immediately cleared of evidence and documents by
Clinton administration officials.
The victim's personal effects including his pager were
returned to the White House within 24 hours---before
they could be analyzed by the police.
Certain White House personnel, whose names are (for
reasons unknown) not in the official record, were
prepared to break into Park Police Officer Rolla's desk
drawer to obtain a key to the evidence locker where
Foster's possessions were being kept. (P. 91 of Hugh
Sprunt's report)
The neighborhood around the crime scene at Ft. Marcy
Park was not canvassed by police, to see if anyone had
heard a shot, until two years after the shooting took place.
Several police officers in Arkansas have given sworn
depositions that they were told of Foster's death at 6:00
PM EST, before police and rescue workers arrived at
Ft. Marcy Park. One of them immediately informed the
wife of the then-governor of Arkansas.
Car keys were not found with victim at crime scene, nor
were they to be found in his car, yet the conclusion that
was immediately arrived at . . was suicide!
Eyewitness testimony is in disagreement as to whether
victim's car was initially found locked. Some say it was
locked. But the car keys were "found" much later, at the
morgue, in a front pocket that had already been searched
at the scene. How then was Foster's car opened up?!
It is unclear when and where the victims car keys were
actually found. One rescue worker says they were found
on the way to the morgue. Another says they were found
at the morgue.
Two White House officials traveled to the morgue that
night to "identify" the body, even though the PP had
already identified it via Foster's White House ID. One of
the officials had already identified the body as Foster to
his boss earlier in the day. Why was the trip necessary?
Graig Livingstone was one of these people.
A suspicious paper with initials "C, H, B" was found in
victim's wallet. These could be explained as deposit
records of accounts that were in the name of Chelsea
Clinton and one or the other parent.
Six of the seven Fairfax County Fire and Rescue
Department (FCFRD) and Park Police (PP) employees
who were first on the scene after the 911 call recall
a second civilian vehicle in the parking lot when they
arrived. None of the FCFRD members were interviewed
in the PP investigation, even though they were requested
to turn in reports before leaving at the end of their shift.
This vehicle has never been identified.
Five witnesses testified that they saw a briefcase in
Foster's car at FT. MARCY PARK. No briefcase was
listed in any of the official reports.
When the FCFRD examined the exterior of the Honda,
it was noted that the car was locked. less than an hour
later, the car was unlocked when it was first officially
searched. The keys to the car were not found until hours
later, when they were found in his pants pocket in the
morgue..
At 6:40 p.m., the PP lead investigator wrote down the
name and phone number of a Secret Security officer.
The official White House position is that they did not
find out about the death until 8:30.
The first question asked by the White House when it
learned of Foster's death was if the investigators had
checked the registration number of the gun to see if
they knew who it belonged to. The White House
Director of Personnel called the PP investigator a few
minutes later to ask him the same question. Why was this
the first question asked, and why was the White House so
interested in this that it was the second question as well.
No fingerprints were found on the torn-up "suicide"
note. But a palm print was. It was Nussbaum's print.
Experts say he had to hold gun in a VERY awkward
position. The latest reports claim he did NOT put gun
in mouth but held it out in front pointed at open mouth?
The White House claims that the papers that were
removed from Foster's office were personal papers of
the Clintons that related to Whitewater. Vince Foster
was not the Clintons' personal attorney. Since then it
has been learned that many papers, ledgers, memo's,
and diary's were withheld.
Fiske said the FBI laboratory performed an through
analysis of the available evidence, but they never
researched the origins carpet fibers and hairs found
all over Foster.
Fiske said there was only one vehicular entrance to the
park neglecting to mention two other roads, including a
old road since the Civil War, closest to the body by 300
feet.
Fiske said the Saudi Ambassador's residence was the
closest building to the park, yet at least seven homes
are closer.
In the words of the FBI interview of the only doctor who
examined the body at Ft. Marcy, Doctor Haut, "believed
the wound was consistent with a 'low velocity weapon.'"
The revolver the Fiske Report described as the death gun
is NOT a "low velocity weapon." How does the Fiske
Report reconcile the doctor's statement? The doctor's
statement is not mentioned at all in the Fiske Report.
According to the story, White House nanny Helen Dickey
called Gov. Tucker's Mansion sometime before 6:00 PM
EDT and spoke to State Trooper Roger Perry telling him
that Foster Killed Himself in the White House Parking
Lot. According to Testimony, the White House wasn't
notified of Foster's death until sometime after 8:30 PM.
Perry passed the call on to Betty Tucker. - Interesting
John Crudele in the New York Post 8/8/95 reported that
the White House called Gov. Jim Tucker in Arkansas
with news of Foster's death at 4:48 PM EDT on July 20,
1993. This is interesting because the body was not
discovered until 5:45 PM EDT the 911 call reporting the
body 5:59 PM, Park Police reached the body at 6:14 PM,
and the White house claims they did not learn of Foster's
death until 8:30 PM.
Oddly no dirt was found on victim's shoes. There should
have been dirt all over the shoes, not just on the soles.
This park is not like most parks. There is no grass or
lawn. It is a forest covered with heavy brush and weeds.
Even Mike Wallace the pathological liar from 60 Minutes
admits that it is impossible to walk the 700 feet through
the park without getting dirt all over your shoes. Foster's
shoes did not even have the shine dulled.
1. While both the Fiske report and the
Senate hearings volumes refer to the
Foster "suicide" note as if it were
proven to be genuine, three independent
handwriting experts have determined
conclusively that it is a FORGERY. Yet
the falsehood continues without
question.
2. No fingerprints on the gun.
3. No proof that it was his gun.
4. Suspicious people seen in and around
victim's car just before the body was
found.
5. Eyewitnesses saw the victim's
briefcase in his car, yet the briefcase
vanished.
6. All 35mm film of crime scene was
either "overexposed" or it vanished.
7. Most of the Polaroid photos vanished.
8. "Independent" investigator Fiske was
forced to concede that the victim's head
_had_ been moved---after death had taken
place and before his body was
photographed.
9. Car keys were not found with victim
at crime scene, nor were they to be
found in his car, yet the conclusion
that was immediately arrived at . . was
suicide!
10. The first non-official to see the
body said their was no gun in sight; so
did the first official to see the body.
11. No blood splatter found. (High
velocity .38 bullets through the mouth
and head leave spatter!)
12. No bone fragments were found, yet
part of the victim's skull was missing,
according to some reports.
13. X-rays vanished with no explanation.
14. Dr. Beyer, the examining physician,
has a history of mistaking homicide for
suicide. In some instances he stated
X-rays had been taken; in other
instances he stated they had not. Dr.
Beyer was 75 yr. old at the time of the
autopsy.
15. According to some reports, Foster's
head wound not consistent with a high
velocity .38 caliber bullet. Dr. Haut's
statement to the FBI was that the exit
hole was very small. In total
contradiction, the Fiske report says Dr.
Haut's determination was that the hole
was very large.
16. No fingerprints were found on the
torn-up "suicide" note. But a palm print
was. No determination was made that it
was Foster's palm print.
17. Wound seen on Foster's neck by
paramedics. One described it as a bullet
hole.
18. Dr.Haut & paramedics said they
viewed the body in a location that is
200 feet from the site officially
described.
19. The cannon near where some witnesses
say the body was found has been removed
from the park.
20. One paramedic listed the death as a
homicide on his report.
21. Numerous hairs and carpet fibers
covered Foster's clothing. But his car
was never checked to see if any of the
same fibers could be found on the
driver's seat, as surely there would
have been found, had he actually driven
himself to Fort Marcy Park.
22. Whereabouts of victim in hours
before death remains a mystery.
23. The list of items in his "suicide
note" could simply have been some
reflection of his plans to resign his
White House position.
24. Only two bullets in the gun. No
matching bullets were to be found in his
home or car.
25. The victim planned to give his
visiting sister a tour of the White
House the next day.
26. The victim's friend and attorney,
Jim Lyons, was coming from Colorado to
meet with him the next day.
27. Foster had a full lunch before
leaving to kill himself, was jovial, and
told his staff he would be back later in
the day.
28. In spite of an exhaustive search, no
matching bullet was ever found.
29. The attitude of the body was not
consistent with suicide. It was laid out
straight, with arms neatly at his side.
30. No one heard the shot. Few people in
the surrounding area were even asked.
The closest house, under construction,
was only 400 ft. away.
31. The FBI was kept out of the initial
investigation.
32. The lead investigator assigned to go
to the body site was performing his
first homicide investigation.
33. Victim's appointment book was never
found.
34. Victim had been making _overnight_,
two-day trips to Switzerland which his
wife didn't know about. Indications are
that he had a Swiss bank account which
had been mysteriously emptied of $2.7
million a week before he died. His last
planned trip to Switzerland had, for
reasons unknown, been canceled.
35. Victim had been a $300,000 a year
lawyer, yet in last weeks before his
death he had a chronically overdrawn
checking account!
36. Police were prevented from searching
victim's home and office.
37. Victim's widow was not interviewed
for ten days after the death. Apparently
she was shown a gun, silver in color,
that was identified as the weapon used.
She said it looked like the
"silver-colored revolver" she had
previously seen at home. The ABC photo
very clearly shows a black gun in
Foster's hand.
38. No proof that gun found with victim
had fired the fatal shot.
39. Photos and reports in the possession
of the Park Police and FBI are being
kept from public view. (Just like the
Zapruder film in 1963.)
40. The Fiske Report contains numerous
factual errors regarding time and
geography at crime scene. It reports a
large pool of blood under Foster's head,
even though no one who was at the site
made any such report, and some of them,
including Dr. Haut and Corey Ashford,
specifically stated to the FBI that
there was no blood on the ground.
(Ashford is one of the medical
technicians who picked Foster's body up
to remove it from the scene.)
41. One vehicle seen at park by police
and rescue eyewitnesses is ignored in
the official record of the case.
42. Park Police concluded their
investigation before they sent the gun
for testing to see if it could fire.
43. Death was ruled a suicide before the
investigators viewed the body.
44. The crime scene was never totally
secured. (There are access roads near
the body-site, in the opposite direction
from the parking lot where Foster's car
was found. Access to the body, from
these roads, was never blocked off in
any way.
45. No damage whatsoever to victim's
teeth from the recoil of a .38,
allegedly placed in his mouth. This
pistol has a rather substantial steel
aiming device mounted at the top of the
end of the 4-inch barrel.
46. Conflicting testimony re: the time
at which the victim was identified.
47. There is no evidence to support the
Fiske report that the victim had lost
weight . The only evidence is that he
had gained weight.
48. Conflicting testimony as to when the
White House was told of the death---from
as early as 6:00 PM, according to the
initial report from Chelsea's nanny, to
the official time of 8:30 PM.
49. The phone number of a Secret Service
officer was found in the notebook of
Park Police investigator Rolla.
Immediately following this entry was the
address and phone number of Vince
Foster. When asked about this during his
deposition, Rolla got nervous and
flustered.
50. Eyewitness testimony is in
disagreement as to whether victim's car
was initially found locked. Some say it
was locked. But the car keys were
"found" much later, at the morgue, in a
front pocket that had already been
searched at the scene. How then was
Foster's car opened up?!
51. Because of interference with
prosecutor Rodriguez' inquiry into this
case, he resigned in protest.
52. Marsha Scott met with Foster, her
friend of 20 years, in an unusual 1-2
hour closed-door meeting the day before
he died. After Foster died, the _only_
thing Ms. Scott said she could remember
discussing, from her long meeting, was
that Foster had a good weekend. (!)
53. The ABC News photo published showing
Foster's hand with the gun is not
consistent with eyewitness accounts of
the scene.
54. The victim's office, a secondary
crime scene, was immediately cleared of
evidence and documents by Clinton
administration officials.
55. The victim's personal effects
including his pager were returned to the
White House within 24 hours---before
they could be analyzed by the police.
56. Certain White House personnel, whose
names are (for reasons unknown) not in
the official record, were prepared to
break into Park Police Officer Rolla's
desk drawer to obtain a key to the
evidence locker where Foster's
possessions were being kept. (P. 91 of
Hugh Sprunt's report)
57. The neighborhood around the crime
scene at Ft. Marcy Park was not
canvassed by police, to see if anyone
had heard a shot, until two years after
the shooting took place.
58. Several police officers in Arkansas
have given sworn depositions that they
were told of Foster's death at 6:00 PM
EST, _before_ police and rescue workers
arrived at Ft. Marcy Park. One of them
immediately informed the wife of the
then-governor of Arkansas.
59. It is unclear when and where the
victims car keys were actually found.
One rescue worker says they were found
on the way to the morgue. Another says
they were found at the morgue.
60. Police and rescue workers have been
forbidden to discuss the case.
61. No mention has ever been made as to
whether there were powder burns inside
of Foster's mouth and whether they were
consistent with the bullet and spent
shell found in the gun at the scene.
Send updates to:
upd...@GrapevineNews.com
John Moore
In <355d65fd...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
>investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only makes you
>look stupid.
>
>It's your choice.
>
Interesting, but you have failed to address a single item of evidence
in my post.
Belief in an official conclusion which is completely contradicted by
the evidence is, to borrow your phrase ---- extremely stupid.
People of your character were highly prized by Josef Stalin.
>
>
>>Magical Foster Evidence
>>
>>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
>>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
>>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
>>items even while straining all credulity with
>>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
>>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
>>Magic is popular where science and logic are
>>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
>>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
>>labeled propaganda as shown below.
>>
John Moore
In <355e6764...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
(Morpheus) writes:
>
>On 10 May 1998 19:59:58 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>
>You really should quit listening to Jerry Falwell so much.
These are not Rev. Falwell's words --- they are mine. Any citizen with
access to the Congressional Record and the Fiske evidence as published
in the Fiske Report on Vincent Foster (June 1994) will independently
draw the same conclusion.
>
>Stop being an idiot and let the man rest in peace.
>
You have not addressed a single item of evidence which contradicts the
suicide conclusion.
What kind of a person makes a decision which is contradicted by the
facts and on learning so continues to avoid the facts?
>
>>Starr's Report Fails to Address Foster Controversy
>>
>>October 1997
>>
>>IC Kenneth Starr has concluded his investigation
>>into the death of Vincent Foster. The man whom
>>Mr. Starr charged with the investigation, Steven
>>Parker, a Memphis prosecutor, has made no comment.
>>Mr. Starr has determined suicide in Mr. Foster's
>>death after the advice of experts and their
>>analysis.
>>
>>Mr. Starr said the evidence points only to suicide.
>>He could find no evidence of any other crime.
>>Those informed of the Foster evidence can only gasp
>>and wonder at such an unlikely result. We should
>>at this point be candid. Mr. Starr is not telling
>>the truth. We know this because Mr. Fiske released
>>much of the Foster evidence and that evidence
>>completely contradicts the possibility of suicide.
>>Mr. Starr has not cited any part of the evidence
>>which led to the suicide conclusion. He merely
>>proclaims the determination on the basis of his
>>authority and unspecified "experts".
>>
>>We have an interesting conflict. On the one hand
>>there is reason and evidence, on the other there
>>is only authority. Which should be trusted? Imagine
>>putting this question to one of the Founders of
>>this Republic. What would they say? Perhaps we
>>need only look to a recent President and follow
>>his wise dictum -- "Trust but verify". To which
>>the corollary must be added -- "No verification,
>>no trust". Mr. Starr and his supporters in the
>>Federal Government and the national press ask for
>>our trust while in the act of a great lie. Trust is
>>not a thing that is given but rather earned. Clearly
>>in this instance it has not been earned but unearned.
>>
>>Many in Federal service and the media see their calling to
>>protect the citizens from themselves. Much as a babysitter
>>would not inform an child about matches our Federal
>>protectors believe it unwise to tell us of assassi-
>>nations. We are a volatile and ignorant lot, as they
>>see us. Who knows what mischief we might do? This
>>cannot be allowed. Murders and assassinations can
>>be allowed but public knowledge of them cannot be
>>allowed. This is the only way to preserve our
>>government and it's freedom -- or so their amoral
>>logic convolutes in backroom debate.
>>
>>Many thoughtless citizens fall for this ruse. We can
>>hear the new Orwellian foundations of government,
>>"Ignorance is Freedom", "Knowledge is Subversion".
>>"Murder if you must, but do not tell me. Take my
>>neighbor but do not take me." These citizens fail to
>>see the fatal contradiction in their borrowed "wisdom".
>>
>>There is only one way to maintain freedom and that
>>is to confront this insidious threat and punish those
>>responsible. This is the act of an informed people that
>>alarms some in Washington's high places. Our government
>>and Constitution are more than the sum of 535
>>scoundrels and numerous bureaucracies. If each of the
>>535 were replaced tomorrow the nation would proceed
>>quite well despite their pompous protestations.
>>This is the real fear in Washington.
>>
>>Mr. Starr has not done the right thing but he has
>>done the expected thing, the gutless thing. He has
>>subverted justice to temporary political loyalty.
>>He has done one other thing. He has shown us that
>>the current occupants of government are incapable of
>>solving the crisis.
>
John Moore
In <355b9cf8...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
>>
>>> On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore )
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Foster committed suicide. To put forth any other theory, after
>>> five investigations, including Ken Starr, ruled it suicide, only
>>> makes you look stupid.
>>>
>>> It's your choice.
"Morpheus" you idiot, I didn't write the above YOU did! Remember,
that's why we are having an argument!
>>
>>I'm still undecided whether it was suicide or murder. There is
>>however overwhelming evidence ofa cover-up in his death. Why?
>
>
>There is no evidence of any cover up.
Of course there is, read "Magical Evidence" and "Proof of Homicide"
>
>
>>There are entirely too many inconsistencies not addressed by any of
the
>>investigations. And the inconsistencies are major ones not the usual
>>differences you get when interviewing many witnessess, that is, the
>>ones that are made available to you to question.
>
>
>There are no "major inconsistencies."
Wrong --- see the above mentioned posts.
> The man committed suicide and
>that's the end of it.
Well --- sieg heil. Birds of a dictatorial feather flock together!
John Moore
In <355e099e...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>
>On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>
>>
>>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
>>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
>>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
>>items even while straining all credulity with
>>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
>>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
>>Magic is popular where science and logic are
>>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
>>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
>>labeled propaganda as shown below.
>
>2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>conspiracy
Yes. That is what the evidence shows.
> to protect the President.
Perhaps, perhaps not. It is not clear what individual or individuals
are being shielded. Though it is clear that the official evidence
contradicts suicide by gunshot in the park.
> To say the least, very unlikely.
>
Not if you follow the evidence.
John Moore
In <355e8ac8...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>
>On 14 May 1998 10:22:46 -0700, riv...@accessone.com (Michael Rivero)
>wrote:
>
>> >that
>> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>> >unlikely.
>> >
>>
>> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it
>>becomes
>>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
>>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the
>>holocaust from the German people, is in place.
>
>
>Ford
So is delusion for those who choose to ignore the truth.
John Moore
In <355cd9b0...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
(Morpheus) writes:
>
>On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>>
>>>The man committed suicide
>>
>>
>> *Prove* it.
>
>Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>
>Prove he didn't.
See the "Proof of Homicide", it's been right under your nose for over 2
years!.
>
John Moore
In <355fdf6a...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Magical Foster Evidence
>> >>
>> >>There are 5 items of Foster evidence which have
>> >>mysterious yet similar origins. Supporters of
>> >>Foster's suicide ignore these magically appearing
>> >>items even while straining all credulity with
>> >>fantasy motives. Perhaps we should not be
>> >>surprised that magic is complimented with fantasy.
>> >>Magic is popular where science and logic are
>> >>unknown. The essence of propaganda is fantasy.
>> >>Certainly the Fiske/Starr-Foster conclusion is properly
>> >>labeled propaganda as shown below.
>> >
>> > that
>> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very
>> > unlikely.
>> >
>>
>> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it
>> becomes
>>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
>>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the
>> holocaust
>>from the German people, is in place.
>
>
>you keep referring to with no proof.
>
>Surely you aren't so small minded, that all you have is some
>right-wing propaganda books?
>
>So, knock yourself out, and put your money where your mouth is, and
>show some real evidence, and the source for that evidence. Right-wing
>books don't count.
Morpheus, you idiot, the "Proof of Homicide" is completely based in the
official evidence released in the Fiske report on Vincent Foster. Mr.
Starr also accepted the Fiske evidence. That evidence contradicts the
possibility of suicide.
The Fiske report on Vincent Foster is not "right wing" propaganda. It
is the official record of the investigation and evidence. The Fiske
report was printed in Washington DC and made available to any citizen.
It is in many public libraries.
Milt
John Moore wrote:
No, you've apparently been putting something else under your nose for 2
years...
Milt
Milt
John Moore wrote:
> In <355e8ac8...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
> >
> >On 14 May 1998 10:22:46 -0700, riv...@accessone.com (Michael Rivero)
> >wrote:
> >
> >> >If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe
> >> >that
> >> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
> >> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very
> >> >unlikely.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it
> >>becomes
> >>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
> >>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the
> >>holocaust from the German people, is in place.
> >
> >Paranoia is treatable, seek help.
> >
> >Ford
>
> So is delusion for those who choose to ignore the truth.
Ignore what truth? Are you saying that a party that wnats Clinton out as
bad as the GOP obviously does, wouldn't use such "obviuos evidence to get
his ass out of there?
Paranoia can be treated. I suggest you begin soon, though, before it
consumes your whole life...
Milt
Michael Rivero
In article <355F7ADC...@earthlink.net>,
as their leader won his Presdency in part with cocaine money. Photos of
Hillary and Al Gore with cocaine smuggler Jorge Cabreras arre at my website,
and long before Clinton had sold out our nation's security to the Chinese,
he had (with the help of his shills here in this newsgroup) sold out our
children ot the drug runners. Drug usage among our children has doubled
since Clinton took office. NO Fortune 500 company can boast of such
growth!
As for Foster, most Americanns know the official story is a lie, and
with good reason.
Vincent Foster was found with a .38 Revolver made by Colt Arms. It was
built from parts taken from two other guns, and as a result had two
serial numbers. The Frame number was 355055, and according to the
records of the Colt Arms company (scanned and available at my website)
the gun was manufactured with a standard dark blue, almost black, finish.
In the Park Police record, the gun is describes as black. The accompanying
photographs in the Park police report show a black gun. (Also scanned and
available at my website.)
The photograph leaked by the White House to ABC-TV also shows a dark gun.
Outside of a glint from the camera flash, the gun image is too dark to
even detect the manufacturers blue color. One thing is quite clear, and that
is that the sharp protruding edges of the gun, where the finish would wear
off preferentially, show no signs of wear. Compare the albedo of the gun to
Fosters gold ring on his finger, just an inch away.
In all the Fort Marcy Park witnesses, in the Park Police, in the experts
at the FBI and ballistics lab, the gun is never described as anything but
dark blue or (more often) black.
No connection exists between that gun and Vincent Foster. Not even
fingerprints. Not even blood. Even the DNA traces on the gun, while "not
inconsistent" with Foster, were more likely to have originated with a black or
an Hispanic than a Caucasian.
Despite this, Robert Fiske (the ex-BCCI lawyer) inserted a comment on
page 38 of his report on Foster; a statement that Lisa Foster thought the gun
found with her husband was one she had brought up from Little Rock, Arkansas.
This statement came from an interview of Lisa Foster conducted by the FBI
several months after the murder of Vincent Foster, under the watchful eyes
of attorney Jim Hamilton and Fiske's representative on the scene, Roderick
Lankler.
In the original FD-302a report of the interview, as well as the handwritten
notes (scanned and available at my website), the interviewing FBI agents
describe the gun being shown to Lisa Foster as "silver colored", not just
once, but several times. The gun is never described as dark blue or black.
The FBI agents are not quoting Lisa Foster, they write down THEIR impressions
of what is being said and done, and in their own words, "LISA FOSTER believes
that the gun found at Fort Marcy Park may be the silver gun, which she brought
up with her other belongings when she permanently moved to Washington."
In order for Lisa Foster to believe that the gun presented to her as the
Fort Marcy Park gun might be the family silver gun, the gun presented to
her as the Fort Marcy Park gun must also be silver. Lisa Foster doesn't
have to be a gun expert to know that silver is not black.
From both the FD-302a form (released as part of the first Senate
Whitewater hearings) and the handwritten notes (pried loose via Chris
Ruddy's FOIA lawsuit), it's clear that Lisa Foster was shown a gun she
recognized as the gun she brought up from Little Rock, but it's equally
clear that this is not the same gun as that found with Vincent Foster.
Black is not silver.
Once found out, this lie generated more lies to try to keep the cover-up
in place, including the ludicrous suggestions that Lisa Foster cannot tell
silver from black, and that two FBI agents, and two lawyers heard and saw
a black gun described as silver in writing and did not request a clarification
or (as would be standard procedure) note the gun's serial number to preserve
the chain of evidence.
One thing is clear, regardless of just exactly how the FBI's report came to
describe a silver gun, it is utterly worthless in connection to the dark
blued steel .38 found with Vincent Foster, yet that is precisely how Fiske
chose to use it, paraphrasing (minus gun color, of course) Lisa's statement
into his report to link the .38 revolver to Vincent Foster.
The Fiske Report, having based its conclusion that Vincent Foster owned
the dark blued steel revolver he was found with solely on Lisa Foster's
recognition of a silver gun, is invalidated.
The FBI, already in court for evidence tampering in another area of the
Vincent Foster affair, manufactured the testimony of Lisa Foster as it
was used in the Fiske Report.
This pattern of repeated alterations in evidence and testimony proves
the existence of a cover-up, which in turn proves murder.
Scans of the official FBI records regarding the showing of the wrong
gun to Lisa Foster are available for viewing and download at
http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html
Zepp Weasel
On 17 May 1998 22:26:58 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
>In <355e8ac8...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>>
>>On 14 May 1998 10:22:46 -0700, riv...@accessone.com (Michael Rivero)
>>wrote:
>>
>>> >If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe
>>> >that
>>> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>>> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very
>>> >unlikely.
>>> >
>>>
>>> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it
>>>becomes
>>>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
>>>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the
>>>holocaust from the German people, is in place.
>>
>>Paranoia is treatable, seek help.
>>
>>Ford
>
>So is delusion for those who choose to ignore the truth.
And you, of course, are the proud possessor of this "truth".
Ford's right, you know. It IS treatable. Seek help.
>
----------------------------------------------------
Not dead, in jail, or a slave?
Thank a liberal.
-----------------------------------------------------
Be good, servile little citizen-employees:
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
When in doubt, call a stoat!
-----------------------------------------------------
Carol A. Valentine
In article <6jf996$s1f$1...@blaze.accessone.com>, riv...@accessone.com
(Michael Rivero) wrote:
> In article <355e099e...@news.alt.net>, Ford <gar...@gte.net> wrote:
> >On 10 May 1998 19:42:18 GMT, jmo...@ix.netcom.com(John Moore ) wrote:
> >
> >If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe that
> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very unlikely.
> >
>
> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it becomes
> obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
> Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the holocaust
> from the German people, is in place.
>
Yes, conspiracies involving many people are commonplace, both in private
and public life. In February this year the four largest tobacco companies
began releasing 30 million pages of secret industry documents. Some of
the documents were embarrassing--one revealed that the Brown and
Williamson Tobacco Corp. Recommended łget smokers as young as possible.˛
The government has even an easier time keeping secrets. Look at the
institution of security clearances, for example. Thousands of Americans
have them. Security clearances are based on the premise you keep your
mouth shut -- no matter if the actions you take as part of your job are
murderous, larcenous, unconstitutional or illegal.
BTW, Mike, you brought up the subject of the German Holocaust. Iąve been
reading some interesting material lately concerning that issue. There is
reason to question the popular conception of the German Holocaust.
For example, British historian David Irving (łHitlerąs War,˛ Viking
Press, 1977) spent ten years researching Hitlerąs papers, and the papers
of the German High Command. None of these papers referred to an organized
top to bottom extermination program for European Jews.
łWe are not familiar, neither the academic nor the professional historians
are familiar with the slightest documentary evidence that there was any
such German policy,˛ says Irving. łAll Hitlerąs other crimes are
documented in statistical details in the archives. This is supposed to
have been the biggest crime of all and yet the documents just arenąt there
. . .˛
The British had broken German codes during the war. Irving says that even
when the British were reading the code signals of the SS units operating
on the eastern front, they found no deciphered orders from Hitler for the
killing of the Jews.
Irving says he came across documents showing that Hitler had given orders
for the deportation of the Jews. On one occasion Adolf Eichman went to
Palestine in 1939 to negotiate the transfer of the Jews to that area.
There was also a plan to send the resettle the Jews to Madagascar after
the war--the Germans did not want to risk their navy to transport the
people during the war. Then in 1942 the Madagascar plan was abandoned
because the Germans had new territories in the East (the occupied Russian
territories.)
Irving says that he found a document in the archives of the German
Ministry of Justice. This document, he says, was concealed at Nuremberg.
The document records a conversation with Hitler. It says: łLammers has
said that the Fuhrer, Adolph Hitler, has repeatedly ordained that he wants
the Śfinal solutioną -- that he wants the solution of the Jewish problem
postponed until after the war is over.˛
Irving says that in the many years he has been researching German
archives, he has never found any documents indicating that homicidal gas
chambers existed.
On the other hand, there are records in the British archives which show
the Brits talking about starting a black propaganda campaign alleging that
the Germans were employing gas chambers. At one stage the head of the
British secret service is being cautioned not to go too far with this
propaganda for fear of undermining the credibility of the campaign.
The remarks I have cited come from this website:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/ZundelTrial.html
I also understand there were foresnsic tests done of at least one of the
camps at which mass gassings of the Jews was said to have taken place.
The results showed no traces of the poisonous gas said to have been used.
John Moore
In <6jkk82$e...@saltmine.radix.net> m...@Radix.Net (Ted Frank) writes:
[snip]
>
>> Finally, there is the blood issue. Eyewitnesses at Fort Marcy Park
>>reported just a "trickle" of blood from the mouth and nose of Vincent
>>Foster's body.
>
>As you've been told multiple times, Foster's body was on a hill at an
>angle; the blood went to his feet, and the copious amount of blood
>came when he was moved to the ambulance.
>
Well you've stepped into a contradiction Ted. First, Fiske tried to
show that there was indeed blood on the ground at the scene of death.
So obviously if there was a lot of blood on the ground it was not
necessary to move the body to the ambulance to disgorge it. Of course
Dr. Haut the ME at the scene said there was little if any blood at the
scene (in his FBI report).
The contradiction doesn't stop there. The fact is that blood pressure
is required for bleeding. The theory that a dead body would bleed more
than a live one (dying granted but technically still alive) simply
exposes your ignorance of human physiology.
You do understand this last point??
Now as to Foster being on an incline, this matters not regarding blood
flow. Recall that every time you get out of bed your heart maintains
blood pressure to your head so that the act of raising your torso does
not cause unconsciousness. The same would be true of Mr. Foster
allegedly dying of gunshot to the head. Even though he was on an
incline the heart is more that powerful enough to maintain blood flow
(even temporarily) to the head against the pull of gravity.
You see the fact that there was no blood flow indicates that Mr. Foster
was dead prior to the alleged headshot.
This should now be very clear.
>You're deluded, but at least you're not lying and claiming that Foster
>was left-handed.
Sorry Ted but you are the deluded one. Review crime scene reports of
headshot victims and study a bit of physiology.
John Moore
In <355dfa4f...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rckt...@ix.netcom.com (R.
Knauer) writes:
>
>>> >If you really think Vince Foster shot himself with a Colt .38 in
Ft.
>>> >Marcy Park, I'd like you to explain your reasons to me.
>
>that he was shot somewhere else and transported there.
>
No, the evidence is still not clear that Foster died of gunshot or that
he was indeed shot. The exit wound is not consistent with a round nosed
unjacketed lead round from a .38 High Velocity (HV) bullet. The Xrays
and cranial evidence have been "lost".
John Moore
In <355F7B78...@earthlink.net> Milt <milt...@earthlink.net>
writes:
>
>
>John Moore wrote:
>
>> In <355e8ac8...@news.alt.net> gar...@gte.net (Ford) writes:
>> >
>> >On 14 May 1998 10:22:46 -0700, riv...@accessone.com (Michael
>> >Rivero)
>> >
>> >> >If you believe this *evidence* to be true, you must also believe
>> >> >that
>> >> >2 independent councils including Ken Starr are involved in a
>> >> >conspiracy to protect the President. To say the least, very
>> >> >unlikely.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> The facts are the facts. And yes, once the facts are studied, it
>> >>becomes
>> >>obvious that a massive cover-up, just as massive as the one in the
>> >>Dreyfuss affair, or as massive as the one that concealed the
>> >>holocaust from the German people, is in place.
>> >
>> >
>> >Ford
>>
>> So is delusion for those who choose to ignore the truth.
>
> as bad as the GOP obviously does, wouldn't use such "obviuos evidence
> to get his ass out of there?
>
Correct. Further this is amply proven in many instances. Senator
D'Amato held the first Senate hearing into the Foster death which
lasted all of 1 day. He fell all over himself congratulating the FBI
and Park Police on the fine professional job they had done. This
hearing occured before the Republicans took control of the House and
Senate.
With the exception of Representatives, Mica, Rorhbacher and Burton the
Republicans have been resistant to any investigation of the Foster
contradictions.
You may draw your own conclusions but the facts as stated above are a
matter of public record.
John Moore
In <355F7ADC...@earthlink.net> Milt <milt...@earthlink.net>
writes:
>
>
>John Moore wrote:
>
>> In <355cd9b0...@news.supernews.com> Morp...@eleusis.org
>> (Morpheus) writes:
>> >
>> >On Thu, 14 May 1998 15:43:43 GMT, wj...@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Morp...@eleusis.org (Morpheus) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>The man committed suicide
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *Prove* it.
>> >
>> >Don't be such an ignorant asshole!
>> >
>> >Prove he didn't.
>>
>> See the "Proof of Homicide", it's been right under your nose for
>> over 2 years!.
>>
>
>No, you've apparently been putting something else under your nose for
>2 years...
>
Well, Milt you have quickly degenerated to ad hominen attacks while
failing to address a single item of contradictory evidence, or any
evidence.
Life is simple and blissful when thinking is not necessary.
Milt
John Moore wrote:
Ad hominem. Calling Clinton a murderer, in the face of ZERO evidence is
NOT ad hominem then, is it?? And I should provide contradictory evidence
for what? How do you contradict a fantasy??
> Life is simple and blissful when thinking is not necessary.
I have no doubt that you know this...
Milt