what's the harm of atheism?

you talk about wanting to hear and see both sides, but that is all
BS...
here is the other extreme - the absolute negation of the atheist
position
________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssFaIhJkLsk

BIG TIME, f*ckers...

_______________
JUDGMENT DAY

my challenge for sh*t for brains james randi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMukj31qw1U

JUST A GAME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ies9j5dRE

nothing will save you!

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2011/02/the-homeopaths-desperate-campaign-to-the-mhra.html

except...

http://www.dcscience.net/labelling%20meds-lewis.jpg

CARPET BOMBING

TORA! TORA! TORA!

_______________________________

Dear PZ... I spoke with God yesterday.... Do you want to know what he
told
me?

CLOBBERING TIME

dawkins - got you...

who's the WINGNUT?

http://richarddawkins.net/videos/579240-the-truth-about-the-lunatic-religious-right-in-america?page=1

THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION - JAN 1, 2011

OMENS OF DEATH:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/302169

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7776949-5000-black-birds-fell-from-sky-due-to-flu

http://starseedshaman.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/redwing.jpg

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/mortality_events/high_profile_events/black_bird_dieoff.jsp

the end of atheism - only the blind and deaf can deny it...

an example and warning of the fate of those who try to divide
people....

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1176-serves-em-right.html

At least we're on the same page...

Serves Em Right, eh, Randi....

Just for you, little traitors…

WHAT IS *WRONG* WITH HENRY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YgdmtkTwO8&feature=related

we're this far from nuking all of you....

the X-MAS vacuum cleaner for the atheists....

shermer, randi, myers, pz, dawkins, harris

http://thecoolgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/henry-desktop-vacuum1.jpg

______________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TIzrBY85I

why does everyone always want to PUNCH you, shermer?

______________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxrWz9XVvls&

take your meds, you little fckers...

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/4006595/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/378/height/378/e-mc2_design.png

now we are going to bury you...

And the lesson from all of this? DOUBLE!
____________________________

What do you want, you little ****ers?

more of these idiots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4C5yzFmC80

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

HOW N WON ALL THE PARANORMAL PRIZES!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus

pz myers does not exist…

http://richarddawkins.net/discussions/543672-inhertitance-of-acquired-behaviour-adaptions-and-brain-gene-expression-in-chickens

atheists, we’re gonna cut off your heads…

THE HIGH PRICE OF REVOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/user/xviolatex

_____________________________

TWITTER TRAP

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/4010823295_96ef45ed1b_z.jpg

let them have a GOOD LOOK at the CORNFIELD....

___________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO7x6-KchSU

EXPOSING QUACKS!

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvhc5wFui01qzdxgjo1_500.jpg

exposing quacks and war criminals who ordered the slaughter of
innocent
people...

http://randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/1239-mdc-changes.html

say hello to my little friend...

____________________________________________

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PGvSoaafXiI/RswrqnTWPBI/AAAAAAAAAh4/RNjNgK2wkdY/s400/nonsense-on-stilts.jpg

______________________

http://files.sharenator.com/squirrel_with_machine_gun_weapons-s450x330-43676-580.jpg

DIE, ATHEISTS, DIE!

__________________

Guess what is inside ANGEL'S ENVELOPE...

RANDI'S HEAD

____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIkDmNVJeA&feature=player_embedded

MUSICAL INTERLUDE

__________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

UTTER CRAP AS USUAL!

WOULD YOU EVER INVITE THIS PHOQUER TO DINNER?

_________________________________

http://kidmacwiz.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/squirrel-lightsaber_thumb12.png

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qDeM_PzJIc

the atheist genocide 2011

________________________________

NEW VIDEO FROM THE JREF

http://videos.lainformacion.com/ciencia-y-tecnologia/ciencias-general/mantened-los-ojos-abiertos-y-pensad-por-vosotros-mismos_CMZkCF4yhmurThbtFZAfw1/

YOU LOST THE WAR!

________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

MORE THAN A MILLIONS DOLLARS!

_____________________________

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8512931/Magnetic-boy-shows-off-skills.html

HAHA!

________________________________________

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/628639-new-items-in-the-rdf-store-giant-evolution-playmat-poster-activity-guide?page=1

even Goebbels would not dare use such techniques to brainwash
children....

______________

http://www.youtube.com/whatch?v=G_J2o9Jkvkw

METAPHYSICAL GHOSTS

________________________

http://www.valentinesperformingpigs.com/images/piglets_red_spotted.jpg

the one image that sums you USELESS SH&THEADS BEST!
______________________

raven1

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 1:17:29 PM8/7/11

to

On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Dav Mabu
<dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote:

>knock knock

Fuck off.

Ghod Dhammit

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 2:05:55 PM8/7/11

to

"Dav Mabu" <dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:601451a1-8fc1-4ace...@a17g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> knock knock

Oh no! It's yet another loser knocking at our door!

Bill M

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 2:41:45 PM8/7/11

to

I see you are opposed to knowledge and intelligence!

"Dav Mabu" <dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:601451a1-8fc1-4ace...@a17g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

george152

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 4:08:20 PM8/7/11

to

He's the world famous knock knock joke

nando ronteltap

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Aug 7, 2011, 8:18:56 PM8/7/11

to

On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Dav Mabu
<dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> knock knock

> new rulership for ATHEIST SACKS OF SH&T - traitors to the human race

There is quite a bit of harm some atheists do, but these people who
do harm are more scientists than atheist. Numerous studies have shown
that disbelief in free will is related to more agression and
cheating. That's where the harm comes in, that scienceminded atheists
often disbelieve in freedom also.

Those kinds of scienceminded atheists who say to require evidence to
believe in God, are also likely to require evidence for the existence
of things like hate and love. They measure love and hate and
calculate the relative worth of people using these measurements. They
don't judge based on self-confidence, but judge with scientific
certitude. Because of being spiked with scientific certitude; the
judgements of these people are often extreme. They are extremely
manipulative in any discussion about what ought, because they are so
certain about what is right. They also tend not to allow any
expression of emotion or subjectivity, because they believe every
conclusion must be forced by facts.

raven1

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 8:31:23 PM8/7/11

to

On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 02:18:56 +0200, nando ronteltap
<fa...@fakeemail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Dav Mabu
><dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> knock knock
>
>> new rulership for ATHEIST SACKS OF SH&T - traitors to the human race
>
>There is quite a bit of harm some atheists do, but these people who
>do harm are more scientists than atheist. Numerous studies have shown
>that disbelief in free will is related to more agression and
>cheating.

Cite one.

nando ronteltap

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 9:21:46 PM8/7/11

to

On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:31:23 -0400, raven1
<quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> ><dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cite one.

I sense that this is one of those atheists who can only come to a
conclusion about the way things are forced by evidence, and not come
to a conclusion by making a decision in freedom. you are the evidence
that what i say is right.

raven1

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 9:40:20 PM8/7/11

to

Translation: you were bullshitting, and ran away when I called you on
it.

nando ronteltap

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 9:50:07 PM8/7/11

to

Ofcourse not, i never do that, these studies exist. But the way you
act is more direct evidence that what i say is true.

raven1

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 11:01:27 PM8/7/11

to

On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 03:50:07 +0200, nando ronteltap
<fa...@fakeemail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:40:20 -0400, raven1
><quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 03:21:46 +0200, nando ronteltap
>> <fa...@fakeemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> >On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:31:23 -0400, raven1
>> ><quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>> >> ><dmabu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Cite one.
>> >
>> >I sense that this is one of those atheists who can only come to a
>> >conclusion about the way things are forced by evidence, and not
>come
>> >to a conclusion by making a decision in freedom. you are the
>evidence
>> >that what i say is right.
>
>
>> Translation: you were bullshitting, and ran away when I called you
>on
>> it.
>
>Ofcourse not, i never do that, these studies exist.

Being familiar with your posting history, I don't believe you. Cite
one.

>But the way you
>act is more direct evidence that what i say is true.

What would that be? That atheists require evidence before we believe
someone's claims? Absolutely! Skepticism is not a vice, and unchecked
credulity is not a virtue. Being divorced enough from reality to think
that non-sentient objects make choices is not a virtue either, it's
just crazy.

Sylvia Else

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 11:04:20 PM8/7/11

to

Er, you said "Numerous studies have shown that disbelief in free will is
related to more agression and cheating." Whatever the means by which
atheists may, or may not, be able to come to conclusions, you should be
able to cite at least one such study.

When a writer claims the existence of studies, but then can't cite any,
the natural inclination of readers is to suspect rather strongly that
the writer was just making it up. Or, to put it more bluntly, lying.

Sylvia.

nando ronteltap

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Aug 7, 2011, 11:20:04 PM8/7/11

to

On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 23:01:27 -0400, raven1

It is scientists who have a reputation for being crazy, precisely
because neither do they acknowledge freedom in the universe at large
nor of people. Consequently the subjectivity of scientists tends to
be underdeveloped. A month ago i saw a scientist on tv, his main
achievement in romance was that he let his shoelaces be tied by a
girl, while he knew how to tie his shoes himself. So he never had a
girlfriend, but he had a good relationship with his mother, which is
what kept him going i guess. Disbelieving in freedom, only having
knowledge in terms of cause and effect, the knowledge which poses
alternative results surpressed, it leads to underdeveloped
subjectivity.

nando ronteltap

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Aug 7, 2011, 11:24:11 PM8/7/11

to

> Sylvia.

No that's not actually a normal response, to accuse of lying, because
you should refer to the reasonability of the claim. The claim is
reasonable, therefore the studies probably exist.

Sylvia Else

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 11:41:19 PM8/7/11

to

It is the normal response when the writer persists in claims as to the
existence of studies but still won't cite them.

> The claim is reasonable, therefore the studies probably exist.

Admission of lack of actual knowledge of studies noted.

Sylvia.

nando ronteltap

unread,

Aug 7, 2011, 11:51:54 PM8/7/11

to

On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 13:41:19 +1000, Sylvia Else

> Sylvia.

That wasn' meant as an admission, the studies do exist.

george152

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Aug 8, 2011, 12:44:50 AM8/8/11

to

nando ronteltap wrote:

> That wasn' meant as an admission, the studies do exist.

Then produce them!

nando ronteltap

unread,

Aug 8, 2011, 12:57:41 AM8/8/11

to

> Then produce them!

That is ridiculous to ask for evidence of something which you
directly see on this newsgroup.

Sylvia Else

unread,

Aug 8, 2011, 1:54:25 AM8/8/11

to

I can't see any studies on this news group.

Sylvia.

raven1

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Aug 8, 2011, 8:46:40 AM8/8/11

to

On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 05:20:04 +0200, nando ronteltap
<fa...@fakeemail.com> wrote:

Words fail me.

Mike Painter

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Aug 8, 2011, 1:04:01 PM8/8/11

to

In article <okmv37ljlft7isv74...@4ax.com>,
quotht...@nevermore.com says...

> >
> >It is scientists who have a reputation for being crazy, precisely
> >because neither do they acknowledge freedom in the universe at large
> >nor of people. Consequently the subjectivity of scientists tends to
> >be underdeveloped. A month ago i saw a scientist on tv, his main
> >achievement in romance was that he let his shoelaces be tied by a
> >girl, while he knew how to tie his shoes himself. So he never had a
> >girlfriend, but he had a good relationship with his mother, which is
> >what kept him going i guess. Disbelieving in freedom, only having
> >knowledge in terms of cause and effect, the knowledge which poses
> >alternative results surpressed, it leads to underdeveloped
> >subjectivity.
>
> Words fail me.

The above is one of two closely related reasons why atheism is
dangerous.
1. It makes people respond in the above manner and thinking people tend
to see how stupid the arguments are. While rare people who change their
minds rarely become christians after spending time here.
2. It makes people THINK.

That is a big danger and does the most harm.
I watched it happen in college many years ago when I asked a friend
some questions she had never been exposed to.

Sparky

unread,

Aug 11, 2011, 11:10:08 AM8/11/11

to

I had often heard of the existence of these, but could never find
them! Now they're conveniently linked here for your enjoyment:
Dennis Markuze's college year Usenet posts from 1994!

This is a genuine piece of history right here. The oldest known
recorded Nostradamus/Depeche Mode connection:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.misc/browse_thread/thread/2c97e7e937eb6e1a/61460a730defdc8d#61460a730defdc8d

Apparently, he was a whiny, good-for-nothing emo kid back then.
Reading this makes me want to go back and slap the 22 year old version
of himself, and tell him to man up:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.suicide.holiday/browse_thread/thread/a346e2545e26b74b/dacc93e30be4b47a#dacc93e30be4b47a
"I am also worried that if I succeed in blowing my brains out I might
cause
some unbearable stress to my mother because I will ruin the new carpet
that she bought.... " Clearly some serious mommy issues going on
there.

And another example of the above:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.suicide.holiday/browse_thread/thread/c43f998e029dc56/be9d6fe5c5ebc184#be9d6fe5c5ebc184

Life a joke?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.suicide.holiday/browse_thread/thread/8bc7650c4df5f01a/e0056c52849ac867#e0056c52849ac867
For you, Dennis, yes it is.

How many times has he scolded people for Blasphemy? Countless, I know.
Which is why it makes this all the funnier:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.suicide.holiday/browse_thread/thread/a5e867160bca7789/d2c8ff49a91f30eb#d2c8ff49a91f30eb

And just in case any of those made you actually feel kinda bad for
him:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess/browse_thread/thread/f2cb67ef08810d29/d147e25bae9b545d#d147e25bae9b545d
Love the PS at the end. It sums up pretty much everything about him.

And the gem of the entire collection:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex.masturbation/browse_thread/thread/650efb39cd783995/9375cae20cc3b647#9375cae20cc3b647
Ever wondered what Markuze jerks off to? Well, now you know.

There are more, so I invite you to peruse at your leisure:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=WK64NhkAAABmc__i79FjJ92s6OzRaPMljwwhf1HIZW9Acsn1et0SyA

Keep in mind that due to the age of these news groups, most of the
posts he made during those years have been lost, with only a few
tattered remnants left to us. I feel like Carl Sagan lamenting the
destruction of the Library of Alexandria: Imagine if the only
surviving work by a little known English playwright named "William
Shakespeare" was "The Tempest", although, we had heard of the titles
of other things that he had written that were highly regarded in his
time. Plays such as "A Midsummer's Night Dream", "Twelth Night",
"Macbeth", "Romeo and Juliet", "Hamlet". Only then can we fully
appreciate the loss of insight into what lead to the slow, spiraling
decent into lunacy that Dennis Markuze embodies.

Drafterman

unread,

Aug 11, 2011, 11:55:09 AM8/11/11

to

On Aug 7, 8:18 pm, nando ronteltap <f...@fakeemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Dav Mabu
>

> <dmabus2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > knock knock
> > new rulership for ATHEIST SACKS OF SH&T - traitors to the human race
>
> There is quite a bit of harm some atheists do, but these people who
> do harm are more scientists than atheist. Numerous studies have shown
> that disbelief in free will is related to more agression and
> cheating. That's where the harm comes in, that scienceminded atheists
> often disbelieve in freedom also.

An atheist is merely a person who does not believe in a god. Their
stance on other philosophical concepts (ontology, epistemology,
materialism, existentialism, etc.) cannot be inferred from merely
their status as an atheists. While, statistically, atheists as a whole
may group around certain other philosophies or beliefs (or lack of
beliefs) it is not appropriate to make the stark generalization you
are making here.

More to the point, being an atheist does not preclude one from
believing in Free Will as Free Will does not depend on a god for its
logical existence. Now, a theist may reason that Free Will stems from
God, just as they may conclude that Morality stems from a God. An
atheist, not believing in a god, is unlikely to subsequently believe
in the existence of things that can only stem from a god, such as Free
Will or Morality. Thus an atheist can believe in Free Will and
Morality, they just don't believe that the existence of things is
derived from the existence of a God.

To address your referenced studies, I am aware of them as well. As a
matter of coincidence, I've been doing some amateur research on Free
Will vis-a-vis Determinism. What is interesting is that, the general
conclusion here is that people are natural incompatabilists. That is,
at some level, people cannot resolve Free Will and Determinism. If one
exists, the other does not. I find this interesting because most
popular forms of theism require a compatabilistic world view.
Omniscience (as often attributed to a god) is a form of theological
determinism - god's knowledge is irrefutable and necessarily
corresponds to the facts of the world and, thus, are determined. So
how can a population that is superficially compatiablistic
nevertheless respond in an incompatibilistic manner, by simply being
exposed to texts which suggest determinism? But I digress...

An alternate explanation, one proposed by Holton (2009) is that, it
isn't an issue of Free Will versus Determinism, but rather an issue of
Futility. In reading deterministic texts, people don't abandon their
belief in Free Will, but nevertheless have impressed upon them the
futility of acting freely in light of an outcome that is determined.
That is, they can still act freely, it just won't matter.

This reduces what is otherwise a novel experiment to something old.
Making people believe that they can't change anything is a tried and
true tactic of tyrannical regimes over the world and throughout
history. To keep people from rebelling you keep them busy with other
things and otherwise demotivated.

Thus, rather than conclude from such studies that: not believing in
Free Will makes people evil, and atheists don't believe in Free Will,
therefore atheists make people evil we can conlude that, if people
don't believe that their actions have significance, then they are not
likely to put effort in doing good at an expense to themselves versus
simply being self-serving.

This latter interpretation, of course, has nothing to do with science
or atheism - it's simply a truth of human nature.

Reference: Holton, R. (2009). Determinism, Determinism, Self-Efficacy,
and the Phenomenology of Free Will. Inquiry, 52(4), 412–428.

>
> Those kinds of scienceminded atheists who say to require evidence to
> believe in God, are also likely to require evidence for the existence
> of things like hate and love.

I was going to say that this was a non-sequitor, but a second glance
at its phrasing has me accept this. Yes, I do require evidence for the
existence of things like hate and love. As hate and love are labels we
place on specific types of behaviors in people which are readily
observable, this is not a problem. I have tons and tons of evidence
for the existence of hate and love. I have none for any sort of god.
Do you?

> They measure love and hate and
> calculate the relative worth of people using these measurements.

Now this *is* a non-sequitor. Being emotions that are expressed
through behavior, hate and love are not quantifiably measurable. Any
sort of qualitative measurement will be subjective and of limited
utility. Generally people don't bother, save for new couples ("I love
you more," "No, I love you more"). Given that no such measurements
exist to measure hate and love, there is nothing to support the latter
half of your statement, that these measurements are used to calculate
the relative worth of people.

While the value of people certainly is measured, this is something
that transcends theistic and atheistic boundaries. The value of people
are measured explicitly and implicitly on a day-to-day basis by
everyone. Who gets a raise? Who gets fired? Two people need my
attention, who do I give it to? Which friend do I want to hang out
with this weekend? Who lives and who dies?

If you are going to suggest some correlation with science and/or
atheism, then some sort of logic or evidence will be required.

> They
> don't judge based on self-confidence, but judge with scientific
> certitude. Because of being spiked with scientific certitude; the
> judgements of these people are often extreme. They are extremely
> manipulative in any discussion about what ought, because they are so
> certain about what is right. They also tend not to allow any
> expression of emotion or subjectivity, because they believe every
> conclusion must be forced by facts.

At this point you've gone off of the rails of rational discussion, and
I cannot find a common ground with which to discuss this aspect of
your post. Should you remedy the fallacious logic that leads to this,
perhaps we can revisit it.

trog69

unread,

Aug 11, 2011, 12:57:13 PM8/11/11

to

D-man ( Mah main man! hehe) you are hitting your head with a David
Mabus-infused brick. This whacko has no interest in debating the pros
and cons of non-belief; his only goal is...no one knows. He posts
these walls of bullshit all over the internet. There's a petition
being signed right now, ( That's how I ended up here.) that asks the
Montreal Police to finally do something about the crazy threats from
this guy.

Good to see ya still spankin' hard! Just don't waste your time with
this one. It's gone, man. Waaaaaay gone.

Drafterman

unread,

Aug 11, 2011, 1:10:08 PM8/11/11

to

> this one. It's gone, man. Waaaaaay gone.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Understood. It was, nevertheless, and opportunity to collect my
thoughts on a matter I was already investigating. Good to see you
again as well.

Cardinal Chunder

unread,

Aug 13, 2011, 6:05:14 PM8/13/11

to

On 07/08/2011 3:26, Dav Mabu wrote:
> knock knock
>
>
>
>
> new rulership for ATHEIST SACKS OF SH&T - traitors to the human race
>

I realise you are mentally ill, but do you ever wonder what your actions
cause to your immediate family? I wonder merely because it's clear from
recent events that you are bringing a lot of heat on them because you
can't take your meds. So I suggest you take your meds and if people
arrive to take you away, consider that it is in your best interests.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

unread,

Aug 13, 2011, 7:46:48 PM8/13/11

to

On Aug 13, 6:05 pm, Cardinal Chunder

Somebody finally got Montreal PD to investigate..

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110811/mtl_mabus_110811/20110811/?hub=MontrealHome

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/Member, Knights of BAAWA!

Cardinal Chunder

unread,

Aug 14, 2011, 8:33:02 AM8/14/11

to

I'm surprised it took so long. It's one thing to be an obsessive
compulsive kook who posts to usenet. It's quite another to send hundreds
of death threats out to people.