The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
mellstrr
(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had
14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of
fascism.
The 14 characteristics are:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans,
symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag
symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist
regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because
of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture,
summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious
minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a
disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is
neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.
Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition
to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national
policy.
Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other
cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or
sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war
time, is very common.
Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the
nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and
terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones
who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite.
Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist
government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely
suppressed .
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education,
and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be
censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and
governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce
laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego
civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates
who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and
authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or
even outright stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times
elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of
opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political
district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
mellstrr
<crickets>
MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE
>Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
>(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all
> had 14 elements in common.
>He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>fascism.
Only ONE really matters:
I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
-- Bill Clinton
May12th, 2000.
Extra credit,
How many days-after
the peak of the market was this?
The day-after the ruling against Microsoft?
Obviously, and inarguably the greatest threat to America....
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/100294.jpg
The Day after Tomorrow.
mellstrr
heat seeking OBOE says...
>
>In article mellstrr wrote:
>>Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
>>(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all
>> had 14 elements in common.
>>He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>>fascism.
>
>Only ONE really matters:
>
>I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
> -- Bill Clinton
> May 12th, 2000.
Clinton didn't do much good for this country either. However, he's not pResident
anymore, is he?
Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of fascism don't apply in the US as
of today?
Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
Your boy Bush could change this perception any time he wants.
But he doesn't want to. He's even gone on record with it:
"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with
each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a
lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," Bush joked.
-- CNN.com, December 18, 2000
Dolt...
lab~rat
puked:
>In article <ysyEd.3367$Ii4...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, MANFRED the
>heat seeking OBOE says...
>>
>>In article mellstrr wrote:
>
>>>Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
>>>(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all
>>> had 14 elements in common.
>>>He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>>>fascism.
>>
>>Only ONE really matters:
>>
>>I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
>> -- Bill Clinton
>> May 12th, 2000.
>
>Clinton didn't do much good for this country either. However, he's not pResident
>anymore, is he?
>
>Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of fascism don't apply in the US as
>of today?
>
>Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
I think the lack of response to your post is because the premise is
incorrectly applied in many instances, and are a reach at best. For
instance:
>>Rampant Sexism
>>
>>The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.
>>Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition
>>to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national
>>policy.
I believe that women are adequately represented in Bush's cabinet, and
the gay/abortion quote have nothing to do with sexism. Gender roles
are diverse and there is no indication otherwise.
In short, this is a bunch of shallow blather that doesn't warrant
close scrutiny.
--
lab~rat >:-)
The less you care, the more it doesn't matter.
mellstrr
>
>On 10 Jan 2005 09:43:40 -0800, mellstrr <mellstr...@newsguy.com>
>puked:
>
>>In article <ysyEd.3367$Ii4...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, MANFRED the
>>heat seeking OBOE says...
>>>
>>>In article mellstrr wrote:
>>
>>>>Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
>>>>(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all
>>>> had 14 elements in common.
>>>>He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>>>>fascism.
>>>
>>>Only ONE really matters:
>>>
>>>I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
>>> -- Bill Clinton
>>> May 12th, 2000.
>>
>>Clinton didn't do much good for this country either. However, he's not pResident
>>anymore, is he?
>>
>>Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of fascism don't apply in the US as
>>of today?
>>
>>Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
>
>
>I think the lack of response to your post is because the premise is
>incorrectly applied in many instances, and are a reach at best. For
>instance:
>
>>>Rampant Sexism
>>>
>>>The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.
>
And? The line says "almost exclusively male-dominated".
It doesn't say that there are "no women adequately represented".
>>>Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition
>>>to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national
>>>policy.
>and
>the gay/abortion quote have nothing to do with sexism.
Learn to read, dear.
"Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. OPPOSITION
TO ABORTION IS HIGH, AS IS HOMOPHOBIA and ANTI-GAY LEGISLATION".
Do you deny that these things don't exist in the Bush regime, boy?
>In short, this is a bunch of shallow blather that doesn't warrant
>close scrutiny.
In short, your pathetic attempt to turn this into a debate on women in the Bush
Administration is falling flatter than a pancake.
Tell us about the other thirteen, rat-boy...be specific.
mellstrr
>The 14 characteristics are:
>
>
>Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
>
>Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans,
>symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag
>symbols on clothing and in public displays.
>
>
>Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
>
>Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist
>regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because
>of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture,
>summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
>
>
>Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
>
>The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
>eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious
>minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
>
>
>Supremacy of the Military
>
>Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a
>disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is
>neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
>
>
>Rampant Sexism
>
>The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated.
>Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition
>to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national
>policy.
>
>
lab~rat
puked:
> >and
>>the gay/abortion quote have nothing to do with sexism.
>
>Learn to read, dear.
>
>"Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. OPPOSITION
>TO ABORTION IS HIGH, AS IS HOMOPHOBIA and ANTI-GAY LEGISLATION".
YOU learn to read. Unless, of course, you have a way to explain away
the fact that what you typed above is not rampant sexism.
So in essence, you or whoever made this up tried to tie some list to a
number of things they heard on the Randi Rhodes show and posted it on
the internet as some kind of 'fact'.
It reminds me of the fake 'Quatrains of Nostradamus' that surfaced
after 9/11. And BTW, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that
there is no link to these words of wisdumb, much less a complete name
of the 'doctor' that put them together. But of course, you would give
those little details a pass on a pro Bush post, wouldn't ya?
lab~rat
puked:
>
>Tell us about the other thirteen, rat-boy...be specific.
LOL, ok, you axed for it...
http://www.echoweekly.com/viewstory.php?storyid=3794&page=2
A Bit on Britt
12:41pm, Tuesday Dec 21 (from email)
The man Neil McDonald describes as “political scientist Dr.
Lawrence Britt” (in “Fascism in the USA,” ECHO, Oct. 28) is not
actually the author of the cited article. That, according to Free
Inquiry’s website, would be Laurence W. Britt (note the placement
of the w). It appears that the seductive lure of anti–Bush fascist
rhetoric that fuelled its wildfire spread through activist blogs has
hobbled further inquiry. While his credentials have been inflated
elsewhere to “famous political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt,” few
seem to find it odd that there is no available mention of his alma
mater, institution with which he is affiliated or to which his
doctorate is linked. (Fewer still chide Britt for cannibalizing
Umberto Eco’s 1995 essay “Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of
Looking at a Blackshirt,” first published in The New York Review
of Books.)
Lawrence Britt is another matter. Google tells me that the
latter is “formerly a major in the Czechoslovak Intelligence Service
and its Department of Disinformation, shortly after his defection
and assumption of a new identity in this country.” A bizarre
coincidence, I’m sure, but one I’ve been unable to dispute, since
Dr. Lawrence Britt is a scholar whose renown is apparently limited
to this single article, as a result of an agitated game of telephone
wherein incensed pundits couldn’t be bothered to revisit the cited
source. If they did, they would have realized that the article’s
author is not a professor of political science but an author of
speculative fiction whose book June 2004 (published in the
summer of 1998) is the only indication aside from the article that
he exists at all.
lab~rat
> (Fewer still chide Britt for cannibalizing
>Umberto Eco’s 1995 essay “Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of
>Looking at a Blackshirt,” first published in The New York Review
>of Books.)
Oh, and here:
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html
Turns out I was right, doesn't it? That'll teach you to post from the
hip...
Eternal Fascism:
Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt
By Umberto Eco
Writing in New York Review of Books, 22 June 1995, pp.12-15. Excerpted
in Utne Reader, November-December 1995, pp. 57-59.
The following version follows the text and formatting of the Utne
Reader article, and in addition, makes the first sentence of each
numbered point a statement in bold type. Italics are in the original.
For the full article, consult the New York Review of Books, purchase
the full article online; or purchase Eco's new collection of essays:
Five Moral Pieces.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In spite of some fuzziness regarding the difference between various
historical forms of fascism, I think it is possible to outline a list
of features that are typical of what I would like to call Ur-Fascism,
or Eternal Fascism. These features cannot be organized into a system;
many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other
kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be
present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.
* * *
1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition.
Traditionalism is of course much older than fascism. Not only was it
typical of counterrevolutionary Catholic thought after the French
revolution, but is was born in the late Hellenistic era, as a reaction
to classical Greek rationalism. In the Mediterranean basin, people of
different religions (most of the faiths indulgently accepted by the
Roman pantheon) started dreaming of a revelation received at the dawn
of human history. This revelation, according to the traditionalist
mystique, had remained for a long time concealed under the veil of
forgotten languages -- in Egyptian hieroglyphs, in the Celtic runes,
in the scrolls of the little-known religions of Asia.
This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as
the dictionary says, "the combination of different forms of belief or
practice;" such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of
the original messages contains a sliver of wisdom, and although they
seem to say different or incompatible things, they all are
nevertheless alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.
As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth
already has been spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep
interpreting its obscure message.
If you browse in the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled
New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I
know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge
-- that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.
2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism.
Both Fascists and Nazis worshipped technology, while traditionalist
thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual
values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial
achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an
ideology based upon blood and earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of
the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way
of life. The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the
beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined
as irrationalism.
3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake.
Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without,
reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is
suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust
of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism,
from Hermann Goering's fondness for a phrase from a Hanns Johst play
("When I hear the word 'culture' I reach for my gun") to the frequent
use of such expressions as "degenerate intellectuals," "eggheads,"
"effete snobs," and "universities are nests of reds." The official
Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture
and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values.
4. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a
sign of modernism.
In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a
way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason.
5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity.
Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks consensus by exploiting and exacerbating
the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or
prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus
Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.
6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration.
That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism
was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an
economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened
by the pressure of lower social groups. In our time, when the old
"proletarians" are becoming petty bourgeois (and the lumpen are
largely excluded from the political scene), the fascism of tomorrow
will find its audience in this new majority.
7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism
says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in
the same country.
This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can
provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of
the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly
an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest
way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must
also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because
they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside.
In the United States, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to
be found in Pat Robertson's The New World Order, but, as we have
recently seen, there are many others.
8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and
force of their enemies.
When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal
people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians.
Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual
assistance. However, the followers of Ur-Fascism must also be
convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous
shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too
strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars
because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating
the force of the enemy.
9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is
lived for struggle.
Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is
permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex.
Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after
which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final
solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which
contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever
succeeded in solving this predicament.
10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar
as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic
elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.
Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs
to the best people in the world, the members or the party are the best
among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of
the party. But there cannot be patricians without plebeians. In fact,
the Leader, knowing that his power was not delegated to him
democratically but was conquered by force, also knows that his force
is based upon the weakness of the masses; they are so weak as to need
and deserve a ruler.
11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero.
In every mythology the hero is an exceptional being, but in Ur-Fascist
ideology heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked
with the cult of death. It is not by chance that a motto of the
Spanish Falangists was Viva la Muerte ("Long Live Death!"). In
nonfascist societies, the lay public is told that death is unpleasant
but must be faced with dignity; believers are told that it is the
painful way to reach a supernatural happiness. By contrast, the
Ur-Fascist hero craves heroic death, advertised as the best reward for
a heroic life. The Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his
impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.
12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play,
the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters.
This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women
and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from
chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to
play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons -- doing so
becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.
13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative
populism, one might say.
In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens
in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative
point of view -- one follows the decisions of the majority. For
Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and
the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing
the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a
common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost
their power of delegation, citizens do not act; they are only called
on to play the role of the People. Thus the People is only a
theatrical fiction. There is in our future a TV or Internet populism,
in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be
presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.
Because of its qualitative populism, Ur-Fascism must be against
"rotten" parliamentary governments. Wherever a politician casts doubt
on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the
Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism.
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.
Newspeak was invented by Orwell, in Nineteen Eighty-Four, as the
official language of what he called Ingsoc, English Socialism. But
elements of Ur-Fascism are common to different forms of dictatorship.
All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished
vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the
instruments for complex and critical reasoning. But we must be ready
to identify other kinds of Newspeak, even if they take the apparently
innocent form of a popular talk show.
MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE
>In article MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE says...
>>
>>In article mellstrr wrote:
>
>>>Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
>>>(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all
>>> had 14 elements in common.
>>>He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>>>fascism.
>>
>>Only ONE really matters:
>>
>>I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
>> -- Bill Clinton
>> May 12th, 2000.
>
>Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of
>fascism don't apply in the US as
>of today?
>
>Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
Absolutely NOT.
Fascism is the Political Ideology which promotes individual
holding of capital and enterprise, but only towards the ends that it sees fit,
and doesn't hesitate to Nationalize it under the guise of the "Common Good"...
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
-- Hillary.
Bill Gates couldn't even give away a free browser
without the Clinton Culture of Lawlessness going BERSERK,
while they never hesitated to utilize Military force against civilians.
-- That's FASCISM.
George Bush wants to
Give you your Money back,
Stay out of your way and
Leave you alone.
-- That's NOT FASCISM.
Hillary Clinton/George Soros/Marc Rich and a few others have made a fortune
in devising Pyramid Schemes wherein they collect vast amounts of Capital
to vector to the political process of destroying the private Capital of others.
-- That's the Road the Serfdom,
the Road to Socialism,
the Vilage it Take to Steal your Wallet.
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/16171.JPG
Topaz
National Socialist Germany was not different from other countries
in regard to free speach laws. The only difference was the right was
in power instead of the left. Before Hitler was in power he had a lot
of his papers banned, and when he was in power he also banned things.
Even today most countries do not have free speech. In leftist Germany
today people get arrested for doubting the holo story and other
things. People in Britain get arrested for politically incorrect
speech or writting. Saying that the races are not all equal in
intelligence is against the law there.
The United States has the most free speech but even here it has
banned things. At one time the play "Merchant of Venice" was banned in
New York because it offended the Jews. People in America were arrested
for their beliefs during WWII. All countries did that.
But the United States does have the most free speech and this was a
great idea. Hitler also had a great idea of removing the Jews from
controlling the media. If we could combine these two ideas we could
have a winning combination. Allowing free speech is not the same as
allowing one unelected group to virtually control all of the media.
The media is the real power, and a minor post such as President of the
United States is like nothing by comparison. Why are we voting for
President and not voting for who will control the media? When it comes
to owning TV stations it is only money that talks, not morality or
virtue.
In the Jews country, which Americans are giving billions of
dollars to, they don't allow non-Jews to own certain media.
National Socialism was mainly about things like making Germany for
the Germans, and rejecting both Communism and Capitalism. But Free
Speech is also a great idea. National Socialists today should make it
clear that Free Speech is sacred and that no party should be allowed
to change that.
www.spearhead-uk.com http://www.natvan.com
http://www.altermedia.info http://www.RealNews247.com
Jefferson
"mellstrr" <mellstr...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:cru38...@drn.newsguy.com...
Arthur Boff
> Do you include the soviet union and if not why not?
Well, let's run through the categories and see what we find...
>>Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
>>
>>Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans,
>>symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are
>>flag
>>symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Arguably the case for the Soviet Union. However, in the fascist
regimes listed in the previous post this nationalism was very much
bound up with traditionalism (as the Umberto Eco article linked to
elsewhere in this thread points out), whereas the Soviet Union had
little time for, say, Russia's tsarist heritage.
>>Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Check.
>>Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Check (and how).
>>Supremacy of the Military
Check.
>>Rampant Sexism
Bzzt. The Soviet Union wasn't about solidifying traditional gender roles.
>>Controlled Mass Media
Check.
>>Obsession with National Security
Check.
>>Religion and Government are Intertwined
>>
>>Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the
>>nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.
In which case, the Soviet Union - if it was fascist - would have used
the Russian Orthodox Church as a tool instead of suppressing it.
>>Corporate Power is Protected
>>
>>The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the
>>ones
>>who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
>>business/government relationship and power elite.
Obviously not, given that the Soviet Union was a Communist state.
During the height of Stalinism if the "industrial and business
aristocracy" didn't meet quotas they were dealt with brutally.
>>Labor Power is Suppressed
>>
>>Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist
>>government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely
>>suppressed .
In the Soviet Union labour unions were effectively nationalised; the
"wrong" unions were still suppressed, but the Party-approved Unions
were allowed to operate.
>>Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
>>
>>Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher
>>education,
>>and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be
>>censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked,
>>and
>>governments often refuse to fund the arts.
The Soviet Union did fund the arts, at the same time as censoring them.
>>Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Check.
>>Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Check.
>>Fraudulent Elections
Check.
So, similar to fascism, but not identical. It's what happens at the
extreme right and extreme left: in general the result is tyranny, but
the tiny, tiny differences make reconciliation impossible.
--
"What happens at an Iraqi Sovereignty Party?" "You tell your guests
they're in charge, but they can't drink without your permission."
- Get Your War On.
mellstrr
<ExPre...@au.revoir.gov> wrote:
> In article mellstrr wrote:
>> In article MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE says...
>>>
>>> In article mellstrr wrote:
>>
>>>> Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy),
>>>> Franco
>>>> (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found
>>>> they all
>>>> had 14 elements in common.
>>>> He calls these the identifying characteristics of
>>>> fascism.
>>>
>>> Only ONE really matters:
>>>
>>> I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
>>> -- Bill Clinton
>>> May 12th, 2000.
>>
> ..
>> Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of
>> fascism don't apply in the US as
>> of today?
>>
>> Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
>
> Absolutely NOT.
Then go start your own thread.
mellstrr
mellstrr
wrote:
> Do you include the soviet union and if not why not?
Apparently, there waws plenty of study material in the five regimes
already listed.
Do you disagree with any of the fourteen characteristics listed below?
If not, why not?
mellstrr
lab~rat
puked:
>On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:54:37 +1100, Jefferson <someo...@westnet.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>> Do you include the soviet union and if not why not?
>
>Apparently, there waws plenty of study material in the five regimes
>already listed.
>
>Do you disagree with any of the fourteen characteristics listed below?
Do you disagree with the two posts I made in this thread that
specifically addressed the credibility of this half-assed analysis?
mellstrr
>
>Jefferson wrote:
>> Do you include the soviet union and if not why not?
>
>Well, let's run through the categories and see what we find...
How about running through the list to see if the current United States
government can be included?
>
>>>Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
>>>
>>>Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans,
>>>symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are
>>>flag
>>>symbols on clothing and in public displays.
>
See: Clear Channel Flag Rallies; Billboards around the country with W's picture
on it, touting "Our Leader"
See also: the co-opting of Major League Baseball, NASCAR, and the National
Football League
>>>Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
>
>Check.
See: Guantanamo Bay (a most recent example)
>>>Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
>
>Check (and how).
See: Dead guys in caves that make videos and send them to FOX News <chuckle>
>
>>>Supremacy of the Military
>
>Check.
Well, we're not sure how "supreme" they are, when they don't have the equipment
they need. However, they're definitely shoved down the Americans' throats as
"supreme" these days...
>
>>>Rampant Sexism
>
>Bzzt. The Soviet Union wasn't about solidifying traditional gender roles.
We've already started down this slippery slope. Won't be long now. But
yeah...for now? In 2005 in Ameruka? Bzzzt, for the most part ;)
>
>>>Controlled Mass Media
>
>Check.
Do I really need to list examples here? ;)
>
>>>Obsession with National Security
>
>Check.
Yep.
>
>>>Religion and Government are Intertwined
> >>
>>>Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the
>>>nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.
In the US' case, they're using Christianity and the rejection of same to DIVIDE
us. Ergo, that would be a manipulation of public opinion.
So, ummmm...Check...
> >>>Corporate Power is Protected
>>>
>>>The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the
>>>ones
>>>who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
>>>business/government relationship and power elite.
This is another one that speaks for itself in the US...
>>>Labor Power is Suppressed
>>>
>>>Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist
>>>government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely
>>>suppressed .
See: the American airlines
>
>>>Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
>>>
>>>Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher
>>>education,
>>>and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be
>>>censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked,
>>>and
>>>governments often refuse to fund the arts.
>
See: Hollywood
>>>Obsession with Crime and Punishment
>
>Check.
Yep.
>
>>>Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
>
>Check.
Yep.
>
>>>Fraudulent Elections
>
>Check.
>
>
Amen.
Next country?
MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE
>MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE
>>> In article MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE says...
>>>> I am doing everything I can do. I am not a dictator.
>>>> -- Bill Clinton
>>>> May 12th, 2000.
>> ..
>>> Are you denying that the 14 characteristics of
>>> fascism don't apply in the US as
>>> of today?
>>>
>>> Please limit your response to its relevance of today.
>>
>> Absolutely NOT.
>
>Then go start your own thread.
MANFRED ends threads.
Your 14 Characteristics of Fascism
are as incongruous as the Liberal Notion of 'success'.
Effects, do NOT affect a Cause, something the FAR-LEFT ceases to realize.
The belief that one man's success comes at another's expense,
that your life is not your own, that SOME must be sacrificed
that others may live -- these are the Fascist ideals.
ENVY is the cause of Fascism.
lab~rat
puked:
>
>How about running through the list to see if the current United States
>government can be included?
Since the premise of your argument has been proven to be false, you
can chase your tail around the palm tree until you turn to butter.
These 'characteristics' don't come from a scholar, they are
bastardized from one and mean nothing. But I'm sure you wouldn't want
to let a little thing like the truth get in the way of the tremendous
point you think you're making...
Maybe you should find a new hobby. One you're good at, because you
suck at America bashing.
Curly Surmudgeon
> Truth hurts, doesn't it?
>
> <crickets>
-----------snip--------------
Yes, it hurts terribly to see fascists in control of my country.
-- Regards, Curly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com/blog/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Topaz
<cu...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote:
>Yes, it hurts terribly to see fascists in control of my country.
>
In March 1937 Mussolini made a spectacular state visit to Libya, where
he opened a new military highway running the entire length of the
colon., He had himself declared protector of Islam and was presented
with a symbolic sword.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Libya/History
the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini arranged for Muslim notables
from Italian-ruled Libya to gird him with the "sword of Islam" during
a visit to Tripoli. "Muslims may rest assured," Mussolini intoned on
that occasion, "that Italy will always be the friend and protector of
Islam throughout the world." His foreign minister declared Muslim
values perfectly compatible with fascism: "The Islamic world, in
accordance with its traditions, loves in the Duce the wisdom of the
statesman united to the action of the warrior."74
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/90
Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews.
http://www.stern.de/community/forum/thread.jsp?forum=35&thread=57402&message=840948
Topaz
>
>If you: a) think american is controlled by fascists, b) that fascists
>are inherently evil/bad, then why would you advocate giving ANYTHING
>they say or do legitimacy by "debating" the merits of their beliefs?
>
>Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to only "debate" or "argue" those
>things, points, or ideas, which "fascists", "conservatives" (or
>Whoever), say that are considered legitimately debatable----and do
>ANYTHING possible to demean everything else?
>
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:
"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not of been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the supression of
the supernational Press and the definate abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favourable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."
Lady Chatterly
Topaz <mars...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini arranged for Muslim notables
>from Italian-ruled Libya to gird him with the "sword of Islam" during
>a visit to Tripoli. "Muslims may rest assured," Mussolini intoned on
>that occasion, "that Italy will always be the friend and protector of
>Islam throughout the world." His foreign minister declared Muslim
>values perfectly compatible with fascism: "The Islamic world, in
>accordance with its traditions, loves in the Duce the wisdom of the
>statesman united to the action of the warrior."74
So I take it outside.
>Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews.
Lots of happy scn movement leaders should concentrate on the other
night.
--
Lady Chatterly
"That is a bot or someone playing as a bot. I dumped it in my KF the
first day. Is it following the group or me?" -- 'Ratz
Curly Surmudgeon
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:52:26 -0800, Curly Surmudgeon
> <cu...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:35:06 -0800, mellstrr wrote:
>>
>>> Truth hurts, doesn't it?
>>>
>>> <crickets>
>>
>>-----------snip--------------
>>
>>Yes, it hurts terribly to see fascists in control of my country.
>
> If you: a) think american is controlled by fascists, b) that fascists
> are inherently evil/bad, then why would you advocate giving ANYTHING
> they say or do legitimacy by "debating" the merits of their beliefs?
Because, in the long run, truth will always win out. The lies, innuendo,
disinformation, misrepresentation, greed, and corruption must be
demonstrated so ignorant, well-meaning people can see reality and cease
being suckered by these TV preachers.
> Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to only "debate" or "argue" those
> things, points, or ideas, which "fascists", "conservatives" (or
> Whoever), say that are considered legitimately debatable----and do
> ANYTHING possible to demean everything else?
>
No, again. We must highlight the very things that the fascists _don't_
want to be seen in the light of day. We must speak loudly and clearly
about their lies and misrepresentations.
Topaz
<cu...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote:
>No, again. We must highlight the very things that the fascists _don't_
>want to be seen in the light of day. We must speak loudly and clearly
>about their lies and misrepresentations.
>
In March 1937 Mussolini made a spectacular state visit to Libya, where
he opened a new military highway running the entire length of the
colon., He had himself declared protector of Islam and was presented
with a symbolic sword.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Libya/History
the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini arranged for Muslim notables
from Italian-ruled Libya to gird him with the "sword of Islam" during
a visit to Tripoli. "Muslims may rest assured," Mussolini intoned on
that occasion, "that Italy will always be the friend and protector of
Islam throughout the world." His foreign minister declared Muslim
values perfectly compatible with fascism: "The Islamic world, in
accordance with its traditions, loves in the Duce the wisdom of the
statesman united to the action of the warrior."74
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/90
Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews.
http://www.stern.de/community/forum/thread.jsp?forum=35&thread=57402&message=840948