Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
wavey
Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
international
consortium.
Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
and
scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
John
McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
senior
government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really
happened on
9/11.
They have joined with others in common cause as members of "Scholars
for 9/11
Truth" (S9/11T), because they are convinced, based on their own
research, that the
administration has been deceiving the nation about critical events in
New York and
Washington, D.C.
[. . . . .]
They hope this might include >>The New York Times<<, which, in their
opinion,
has repeatedly failed to exercise the leadership expected from our
nation's
newspaper of record by a series of inexplicable lapses. It has failed
to vigorously
investigate tainted elections, lies leading to the war in Iraq, or
illegal NSA spying on
the American people, major unconstitutional events. In their view, The
Times might
compensate for its loss of stature by helping to reveal the truth about
one of the
great turning-point events of modern history.
Read More:
{http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/chains/signs20060201_Fightingback.php#93add710b4097a385d237c04aad"
}http://signs-of-the-
times.org/signs/chains/signs20060201_Fightingback.php#93add710b4097a385d23
7c04aad
Get the latest real news, original music, weekly podcast at:
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age...@justicespammail.com
>Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
>
>Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
>international
>consortium.
And not a single structural engineer in the bunch.
EagleEye
There will be soon enough. Kevin Ryan is a member also let us not
forget.
Vandar
What's he doing for a living these days?
EagleEye
Don't know, but you are obviously referring to the fact that he was
sumarily fired for questioning the information his employer,
Underwriters Labs was commissioned to prepare for NIST.
Not very amuzing Vandar.
You're paid to shill for the official story, aren't you. You must be,
given the amount of time you dedicate to your "work" in these
newsgroups.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>> And not a single structural engineer in the bunch.
>
>There will be soon enough. Kevin Ryan is a member also let us not
>forget.
Why not? He isn't a structural engineer.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>> What's he doing for a living these days?
>
>Don't know, but you are obviously referring to the fact that he was
>sumarily fired for questioning the information his employer,
>Underwriters Labs was commissioned to prepare for NIST.
He was fired for lying.
Vandar
>>What's he doing for a living these days?
>
>
> Don't know, but you are obviously referring to the fact that he was
> sumarily fired for questioning the information his employer,
> Underwriters Labs was commissioned to prepare for NIST.
Of course.
> Not very amuzing Vandar.
It would help to know what his qualifications are.
> You're paid to shill for the official story, aren't you. You must be,
> given the amount of time you dedicate to your "work" in these
> newsgroups.
Spare time.
BDK
@justicespammail.com says...
You would think even a few of the conspirokooks would pick up on the
fact that virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC coming
down, and come out of their cult, but somehow, they have true faith.
They are solid members in the CHUrch of the Magical Properties of Steel,
or CHUMPS. "Steel??...It's MAGIC!"
I guess that's why they refuse to talk to someone who is a recognized
expert and hear the real truth.
BDK
Knowledge Basehead
news:MPG.1e4ca5345...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
> construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC coming
> down
Cite?
How do you know what everyone thinks?
--
Hi! I'm the .sig virus that will destroy Usenet. Please add me to your sig.
- END USENET NOW http://www.bedoper.com/usenet
EagleEye
about to change real fast (structural engineers joining the truth
movement).
This train is only just starting to really pull out of the station
now..
Time is on the side of those investigation this thing, since no one can
erase the videos, nor fling the buildings back up into the NYC skyline.
History is starting to self examine now, in the light of everything now
known.
The last laugh will be on the 9/11 debunking shills who will become
known as 9/11 deniars, since the truth will have become self evident to
one and all.
Everyone will laugh at flight 93 movies for the absurd disinfo that
they are, as they will whenever the MSM or any public official parrots
the official version, which will be seen as officially absurd nonsense.
This isn't going to be like the JFK assassination. There's more than
just a magic bullet in this case. People like Vandar, sky shill,
agent86@justicespam and BDK you are on the wrong side of history, which
is starting to come up to speed at an increasing accelerated rate, face
to face with the God aweful horrific truth about 9/11, on the other
side of which resides new possibilities, in terms of authentic civil
governance. You do not realize what you are trying to defend and what
you stand hopelessly on guard for.
BDK
says...
> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1e4ca5345...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
> > virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
> > construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC coming
> > down
>
> Cite?
>
> How do you know what everyone thinks?
>
>
>
Cite??
How do you cite people who *aren't* claiming there's a "coverup"?
Because there are THOUSANDS of engineers that don't disagree with the
official 911 cause of the WTC collapsing!
Why won't you talk to an expert, an engineer?
BDK
BDK
jne...@globalmanagement.ca says...
LOL, nice rave there...7 out of 10...
Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
You keep ignoring the question.
I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
BDK
Vandar
> Once they actually get a look at the collapse of buiding 7, that's
> about to change real fast (structural engineers joining the truth
> movement).
They've seen the videos of seven's collapse, which shows a very
uncoordinated, asymmetrical collapse with a duration far exceeding the
rate of free fall.
> This train is only just starting to really pull out of the station
> now..
>
> Time is on the side of those investigation this thing, since no one can
> erase the videos, nor fling the buildings back up into the NYC skyline.
>
>
> History is starting to self examine now, in the light of everything now
> known.
>
> The last laugh will be on the 9/11 debunking shills who will become
> known as 9/11 deniars, since the truth will have become self evident to
> one and all.
>
> Everyone will laugh at flight 93 movies for the absurd disinfo that
> they are, as they will whenever the MSM or any public official parrots
> the official version, which will be seen as officially absurd nonsense.
>
>
> This isn't going to be like the JFK assassination. There's more than
> just a magic bullet in this case. People like Vandar, sky shill,
> agent86@justicespam and BDK you are on the wrong side of history, which
> is starting to come up to speed at an increasing accelerated rate, face
> to face with the God aweful horrific truth about 9/11, on the other
> side of which resides new possibilities, in terms of authentic civil
> governance. You do not realize what you are trying to defend and what
> you stand hopelessly on guard for.
People said the same thing in 1963, 1969, and 1986, among others.
They were all wrong.
Knowledge Basehead
news:MPG.1e4d3e8e1...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>
> You keep ignoring the question.
Any old engineer, who has no idea of the details of this case?
Why? To what end?
> I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
We're all very proud of you.
Knowledge Basehead
news:MPG.1e4d3de58...@news.buckeye-express.com:
And there are thousands who do.
> Why won't you talk to an expert, an engineer?
Such as?
Vandar
> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1e4d3de58...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
>
>>In article <Xns975EEA312...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
>>says...
>>
>>>BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>>>news:MPG.1e4ca5345...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
>>>>construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC
>>>>coming down
>>>
>>>Cite?
>>>
>>>How do you know what everyone thinks?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Cite??
>>
>>How do you cite people who *aren't* claiming there's a "coverup"?
>
>
> How do you know what everyone thinks?
>
>
>>Because there are THOUSANDS of engineers that don't disagree with the
>>official 911 cause of the WTC collapsing!
>
>
> And there are thousands who do.
Name three.
EagleEye
>
> You keep ignoring the question.
>
> I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>
> BDK
Thank you for your advice and imput. Adding Structural Engineers and
Construction Mgmt Engineers will soon become one of their top
priorities. Fetzer and Jones have been too busy lately, making a major
presentation and being interviewed all over the place, including an
appearance on Air America. Word is spreading fast. Soon, the
professional catagories you are mentioning WILL be represented within
this snowballing groups of professionals (excluding Mohamed Columbo of
course - damne they need to drop that guy real fast). This train is
only just starting to pull out of the station.
You shills will be eating crow soon enough don't you worry or I should
say be worried.
Your objection has been well noted, and will provoke a response I
believe. I'm going to try to do my part to make certain of it.
Thank you for your contribution to the truth movement, as a movement of
the truth that 9/11 was and could have been nothing other than an
inside job.
This thing, this issue, is finally developing legs and a life all its
own. Word is now spreading at an exponential rate.
Also, you would be surprised at just how few actually have seen the
decent of Building 7, which was symetrical, and went down from top to
bottom in about 6.5 seconds, which is almost precisely the rate of
absolute free fall in a complete vacuum.
As more and more professionals become acquainted with the issues, more
and more will begin to chime in.
9/11 truth is finally coming of age. May be get to the other side of
it, and begin to enjoy a newfound realm and creative space of new
possibility in terms of Civil Governance.
EagleEye
> They were all wrong.
This isn't then and 9/11 is an event like no other. The truth will out.
Can't not. Eventually a new citizens grand jury will form, which, as
this thing picks of more steam, may even get subpeona powers at some
stage in this high stakes endeavour.
What, you don't want a new investigation into what happened on 9/11?
Don't the victims families, and all the countless 1000's who'v died
needlessly in the wake of 9/11 deserve as much?
edrh...@hotmail.com
Vandar wrote:
> EagleEye wrote:
>
> > Once they actually get a look at the collapse of buiding 7, that's
> > about to change real fast (structural engineers joining the truth
> > movement).
>
> They've seen the videos of seven's collapse, which shows a very
> uncoordinated, asymmetrical collapse with a duration far exceeding the
> rate of free fall.
Eagle Eye and Vander both, could either (or both) of you present links
to support the symmetrical/asymmetrical theories?
Vandar
I couldn't care care less if a bunch of unqualified yahoos want to
conduct some pseudo-investigation to search for evidence supporting
their outlandish claims.
The victim's families have their answers. Don't ever pretend that you
represent them.
BDK
says...
> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1e4d3e8e1...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
> >
> > You keep ignoring the question.
>
> Any old engineer, who has no idea of the details of this case?
Any accredited structural engineer, picked at random would probably have
looked at the official version already, besides all the stuff on both
sides is on the net, right??
Even the "kook" details.
>
> Why? To what end?
So you can stop the fucking insanity!
Run the official cause, and your best thermite, controlled demo, etc
past him, and let him tell you his opinion. then pick another engineer,
and let them tell you too.
>
> > I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>
> We're all very proud of you.
Gee thanks, but why won't you do it?
What are you and your homies scared of?
There's only one thing that can happen to you..
You'll feel like an idiot, and be out what the engineer charges..
Hey, why don't you say you are a "reporter" doing an article about
"alternate 911 theories" and he might do it for free.
He will laugh at them. Really.
BDK
BDK
jne...@globalmanagement.ca says...
Woo hoo! Has the doctor seen you for your follow up? Damn, that was a
good one. You're rising to the top of the Uberkook mountain.
Soon, you can pound your cheat and scream, "Hey, I'm King of the Loons!"
And then you'll go for a nice ride..
BDK
Vandar
http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc_7_cbs.mpg
Pay particular attention to the upper-left portion of the building, the
structure on the roof collapses five seconds into the video, the rest of
the building begins it's descent about 6 seconds later.
Part of the building collapsed independently of other parts - asymmetrical.
Total collapse time: Approximately 13 seconds.
Quintal
wrote:
it cant dawn on your foggy mind apparently, but people doubt the
official story because officials are notoriously crooked AND that
story is especially ridiculous. BTW I havent seen you guys reply to
that one :
THE LOONIEST OF ALL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES
by Gerard Holmgren
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event
there will usually be at least one, often several, wild conspiracy
theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix"; "the
Pope had John Lennon murdered"; "Hitler was half Werewolf"; "Space
aliens replaced Nixon with a clone," etc, etc. The bigger the event,
the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which
circulate in relation to it.
So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept. 11, 2001, have
spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as
always, there is -- sadly -- a small but gullible percentage of the
population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or
rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11 (and one that
has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs)
is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers,
masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent
motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators
of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of
delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage
across the Internet and the media to the extent that a number of
otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the
effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little
rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as
all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was
caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them and
actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring
the stand down of the U.S. Air Force, the insider trading on airline
stocks (linked to the CIA), the complicit behavior of Bush on the
morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the
firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented
proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy
theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers
somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them
around U.S. airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into
important buildings, without the U.S. intelligence services having any
idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The daunting task of analysis
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to
invent even more preposterous stories to distract from its core
silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of
truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated
stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article.
However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of
conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called
evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one
delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it and
deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned
full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog , they then
reinvent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it,
thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the
fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see
any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions.
The fruit loop
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took
over the four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the
use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic
guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to
their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous
concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start,
they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any
Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board
without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being
registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they
are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting
world of the conspiracy theorist.
Who's on first?
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID (but
never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these
were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this
problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the
fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they
looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply
paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed
to have gotten on board with all that stuff if they were searched? And
if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected
themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of
gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange," thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth
Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife,
gun or boxcutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep
flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of
those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is
likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were
on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they
had purchased and cars they had rented. So, if they used credit cards
that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they
used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the
conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and
awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers'
passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt
triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged
look of one who has just experienced a revelation of questionable
sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real
passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been
completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims
impatiently, "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats
they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!"
And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the
passenger lists?"
"You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!"
And so on...
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of
creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away
with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what
further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid
story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that
completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers?"
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange
coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to
time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in
a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy
theorist. The "improbability drive," in which they decide upon a
conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then
continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and
unbelievable coincidences to support it, shrugging off the
implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes
the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in
the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is
most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor.
Hijacking 101
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with
the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question
of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without
the pilot being able to alert ground control is nearly impossible. The
pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control
to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility,
the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible
hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of
threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas (after
they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of
the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the
hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point
in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the
services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of
the planes, all four pilots fly them with breathtaking skill and
certainty to their fiery end -- all four unflinching in their steely
resolve for a swift meeting with Allah.
Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms," it was their
fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron
will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece
of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went
out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom,
even leaving their Korans in the bar -- really impeccable Islamic
behavior -- and then got up at 5 a.m. the next morning to pull off the
greatest covert operation in history.
This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed
enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals
in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because
they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been
limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to
the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and
skillfully guided them to their doom.
If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these
tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its
not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to
U.S. intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather
than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to
the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the
constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their
unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.
A Ryder truck with wings?
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the
mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult
question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has
seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the
WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do
not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on
board, and manage to deploy them in such a manner that they went off
in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane?
This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who
at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in
order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane
blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable!
Sluggishly combustible jet fuel, which is basically kerosene and
which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C, has suddenly
taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent,
vapourizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that
a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of
which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum
combustion temperature of kerosene -- let alone the boiling point --
which is what would be required to vapourize a plane. And then there's
about 50 tons of aluminium to be accounted for.
In excess of 15 pounds of metal was vapourized for each gallon of
kerosene.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely
dismissed as "mumbo jumbo."
This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about
anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a
hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating
explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown
to science, but just discovered by them, at that very moment.
Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation
history has a plane vapourized into nothing from an exploding fuel
load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the
effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the
intellects of these cretins.
"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on
impact," they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis
movie."
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known
fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of
documentation -- other than Bruce Willis movies?"
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist
will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves
into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so
there's no way of telling," they counter with a sly grin.
Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before (and
since). None of them vapourized into almost nothing.
"But not big planes, with that much fuel," they shriek in
hysterical denial.
Or that much metal to vapourize.
"Yes but not hijacked planes!"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or
accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly."
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently
crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the
ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourize into
nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by
now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the
fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into
nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its
a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have
nothing to compare it to," the conspiracy theorist has now convinced
themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not
loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourization of the
plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you
might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop...
The "new math"
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many,
and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the
newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They
have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical
collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest
counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and
claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning
kerosene.
For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of
thermodynamics and propose kerosene, which is not only impossibly
destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in
violation of the law of degradation of energy.
You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic
fireball, vapourizing a 65-ton plane into nothing, but then came back
for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees C for another hour at the
impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And, while
it was doing all this, it also poured down the elevator shafts,
starting fires all through the building.
When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy
law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once,
something which is readily observable in the real world, even for
those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no
problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few
thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to:
1. Completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft;
2. Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour
at the impact point to melt steel ( melting point about double the
maximum combustion temperature of the fuel );
3. Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and
start similarly destructive fires all throughout the building.
This kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize
that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were
deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire
street might have been vapourized. And never again will I take
kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding
the lamp, the next moment -- kapow! Vapourized into nothing along with
the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly
stuff to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno
allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot
burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the
skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC
was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire and, therefore, not
particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building
of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious
suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as
the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling
and twisting and falling sideways.
Laws be damned
Since they've already re-engineered the combustion qualities of
jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the
structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws
of gravity get in the way?
The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a
free-falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that it's
physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the
top floors smashing through the lower floors.
But, according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity
were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that
the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even
after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil
spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible
under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from
fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons
of hurricane force wind -- as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger
jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at
school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why
they couldn't complete their assignments.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vapourized everything in
the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed
my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and
mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their
science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosene was,
according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the
WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although
2000 C isn't really required, 100 degrees C will generally do the
job).
This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy
theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different
city.
Not all DNA created equal
That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your
DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by
an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it
can survive temperatures which completely vapourize a 65-ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the
missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of
the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to
a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly
claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified
from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the
plane.
"The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion," maintain
these space loonies, but only one of the people inside it were not
identified by DNA testing.
So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending
upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story
you're trying to sell at any particular time.
Missiles have wings, too
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the
Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of
the Pentagon, it consists of five rings of building, each with a space
in between. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 feet deep, with a
similar amount of open space between it and the next ring.
The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45
degree angle, punching a neat, circular hole about 12 feet in diameter
through three rings (six walls).
A little later a section of wall about 65 feet wide collapsed in
the outer ring. Since the plane, which the conspiracy theorists claim
to be responsible for the impact, had a wing span of 125 feet and a
length of 155 feet and there was no wreckage of the plane, either
inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still
smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is
clearly a physical impossibility.
But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet
fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the
properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of
thermodynamics, so what the hell -- why not throw in a little spatial
impossibility as well?
I would have thought that the observation that a solid object
cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at
least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the
conspiracy theorist, this is "mumbo jumbo." It conflicts with the
delusion that they're hooked on, so it "must be wrong" although trying
to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile
endeavour.
Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the
Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane
was vapourized by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash
as evidence of this behavior (That is a wonderful fruit loop).
Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth
in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the
hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having
blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 feet
deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way
into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though
the building shows no sign of such damage).
As for what happened to the wings, here's where they get really
creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which
then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the
plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on
its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing
alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from
an "irrecoverable angle."
How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is
truly a study in applied stupidity.
Epilogue
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO
conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with
the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane
and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They
gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes.
Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to
the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his
perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting
from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical
Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the
extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with
amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that
was perpetrated on Sept. 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed
in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous
self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a
more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11.
mellstrrr
says...
>
>9/11 truth is finally coming of age. May we get to the other side of
>it, and begin to enjoy a newfound realm and creative space of new
>possibility in terms of Civil Governance.
>
There will be no Civil Governance until all of the traitors and criminals are
removed from office.
And FYI--A "Superman" is not coming to save us. If a Civil Insurrection by We
The People is what it takes to remove the Bushlings and their criminal cohorts,
then so be it. It is time to quit talking, and start acting.
mellstrrr
>
>EagleEye wrote:
>>>People said the same thing in 1963, 1969, and 1986, among others.
>>>They were all wrong.
>>
>>
>> This isn't then and 9/11 is an event like no other. The truth will out.
>> Can't not. Eventually a new citizens grand jury will form, which, as
>> this thing picks of more steam, may even get subpeona powers at some
>> stage in this high stakes endeavour.
>>
>> What, you don't want a new investigation into what happened on 9/11?
>> Don't the victims families, and all the countless 1000's who'v died
>> needlessly in the wake of 9/11 deserve as much?
>
>I couldn't care care less if a bunch of unqualified yahoos want to
>conduct some pseudo-investigation to search for evidence supporting
>their outlandish claims.
Then shut up and get out of the way, traitorist-government apologist. Your
opinion on these subjects is well-worn, and quite tiresome.
frog
Quintal
<qui...@ZEJOGOZJEhotmail.com> wrote:
>BTW I havent seen you guys reply to
>that one :
>
>
>THE LOONIEST OF ALL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES
>by Gerard Holmgren
nor to that one:
From Hitler to Bush
The editor of La República del Uruguay replies to the US ambassador,
Martin Silverstein, ( Uruguay ) who had complained about the
comparisons the newspaper had drawn between Hitler and Bush.
by Dr. Federico Fasano Mertens
March 30th, 2003 "La República del Uruguay" A few days ago I received
a letter from Martin Silverstein, the US ambassador to Uruguay,
accusing La República, a publication which I am honoured to edit, of
"totally lacking any sense of journalistic integrity" by comparing
George Bush, the president of his country, to Adolf Hitler, the
chancellor of the Third Reich.
I have been unable to reply to him any sooner because the act of
piracy which his country has committed, attacking a defenceless and
close to disarmed country with the most formidable killing machine
that the history of the world has ever known, has forced me to devote
more than the usual amount of time to publishing special editions on
the slaughter. I also found myself taken up by trying to convict
US-trained uniformed torturers who had slandered me, a task which I
have only recently been able to bring to completion.
Not long ago, when the ambassador visited me in my office, I remember
saying to my colleagues that he was the most intelligent, perceptive
and witty American ambassador I had ever met. "At last," I said, "a
representative from the empire with whom you can exchange ideas,
without being poisoned by the same tired, old clichés whenever you
attend a meeting."
Unfortunately for the ambassador, however, his wisdom has not spared
him the misfortune of having to represent the forty-third president of
his nation, George Bush Jr.: a paranoid fanatic intoxicated by
messianic passions and dimmer than a slug. A man drunk with power, as
he was drunk with alcohol before—and legally condemned for it on 4
September 1976, for driving drunk at full speed. Admonished, too, by
none other than the evangelist Billy Graham who told him, "Who are
you, to think yourself God?". A militant for the Christian Right, the
Texan, Southern Christian right that is. A racist in love with the
death sentence, especially when it comes to African-Americans. All in
all, the worst US president for over a century, the man who will
unleash the greatest tragedies on his own people. The opposite of Homo
Sapiens, the incarnation of Homo Demens.
And a misogynist, to boot, like any good racist. No one could forget
the public humiliations he has put Laura Bush through. You can well
imagine Laura Bush's embarrassment on hearing her husband's reply when
asked by the press why she wasn't accompanying him on that day, "it's
been raining and she's had to sweep the driveway to our Crawford
ranch, we're expecting Jiang Zemin, the president of China, tomorrow".
His compatriot, the aged writer Kurt Vonnegut did not hesitate in
calling him "the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup
d'état leader imaginable".
But let's get to the heart of the matter. Let's leave the US
ambassador with his sad misfortune of having to defend the most
delirious resident the White House has ever known, and me with the
honour of trying this man armed only with words.
The matter at hand is the comparison between Adolf Hitler and George
Bush.
There are obvious differences. The first being that the war criminal,
the murderer of the Jewish and Soviet peoples, won a resounding
victory in the German elections, while the war criminal and murderer
of the Iraqi people reached power fraudulently, in the biggest
electoral scandal in US history.
From the theoretical point of view, the comparison between Bush and
Hitler is correct. The scientists have described Nazism as a terrorist
dictatorship of corporate expansionism. Bush, by putting himself
beyond the law and invading a defenceless nation which it had not
attacked in order to take over its oil wealth, the second largest on
the planet, and then stating that other oil-producing nations will
follow, comes close to the definition of a corporate terrorist
dictatorship. Even though he may not like to admit it.
George Bush is a Nazi in his genes.
His grandfather, Prescott Bush, was a partner in Brown Brothers
Harriman and one of the proprietors of the Banking Corporation Union.
Both companies played a key role in financing Hitler on his way to
power in Germany. On 20 October 1942, the US government ordered the
confiscation of Ranking Corporation Union, owned by Prescott Bush, and
in addition seized the Dutch-US Trade Corporation and Seamless Steel
Corporation, both administered by the Bush-Hamman Bank. On 17 November
of the same year, Franklin Delano Roosevelt confiscated all assets of
the Silesian American Corporation, again administered by Prescott
Bush, for trading with the enemy. George's great-grandfather, God's
warrior, Samuel Bush, father of the Nazi Prescott Bush, was the right
hand man of the steel magnate Clarence Dillon and the banker Fritz
Thyssen, who wrote a book called I Paid Hitler, joining the German
Socialist Workers Party in 1931.
Should the ambassador have any doubts on the spurious alliance between
the Bush family and Hitler, I would recommend he reads Victor Thorn's
splendid essay. Thorn states: "An important part of the basis for the
Bush family fortune was created by the help it offered Adolf Hitler.
The current president of the United States, as his father (ex-director
of the CIA, vice-president and president), reached the summit of the
North-American political hierarchy because his grandfather,
great-grandfather and their political family aided and abetted the
Nazis". This without going into how the Bush family swindled and
embezzled four-and-a-half million dollars from Broward Federal Savings
in Sunrise, Florida, or the fraud of millions of savers at the
Silverado Savings Bank (Denver, Colorado).
A Nazi great-grandfather, a Nazi grandfather, a father who wasn't able
to be a Nazi because Hitler had already killed himself in the ruins of
the Chancellery gardens, though he benefited from the ill-gotten gains
of his ancestors.
But let us not condemn our homo demens for his evil genes.
Let us judge him only by his works. And let's compare. Just compare.
How does the ambassador believe that the delirious Austrian corporal
reached the pinnacle of public power? Hitler reached power in clean
elections, but then found that the Constitution of the Weimar Republic
placed limits which his omnipotent desires refused to accept. He then
plotted the burning of the Reichstag and in a single night was
anointed the elector of war or peace.
Doesn't this sound familiar, Mr Ambassador?
The criminal demolition of the Twin Towers brought about the same mire
as the burning of the Reichstag. Obviously, I am not about to be so
bold as to join those who accuse the Bush warmongers of having
orchestrated the massacre or of not stopping it when they learnt of
its preparation. There is no conclusive proof for such an outrageous
statement, though there are many signs of criminal negligence and huge
suspicion which is only encouraged by strict censorship that is
without precedent in modern US democracy. Some day, when the American
people fully recover their freedom of information and investigate that
black Tuesday morning of September 11, today corralled by a Patriot
Act, approved with the single vote against of a woman, a symbol of
national US dignity, we shall be able to find out why the many
tell-tale signs of an impending large-scale assassination left
throughout the country were ignored. We shall be able to learn why the
Air Force jets took 80 minutes to intercept the hijacked planes, when
it was known that the planes were hijacked and heading for Washington
as soon as they took off from Boston and the manual lays down the
procedure for the intervention of the Air Force within 5 minutes of a
hijack.
We will be able to find out why the remains of the presumed plane that
hit the Pentagon were hidden. We shall be able to learn why, according
to the conservative Wall Street Journal, immediately after meeting in
Washington with CIA director George Tenet, the head of the Pakistani
secret services arranged for Islamabad to send one hundred thousand
dollars to Mohammed Atta in the US, the organiser of the New York Twin
Towers suicide attack. The suspension of civil rights by the Patriot
Act now prohibits the investigation of this frightening piece of
information. We will finally be able to find out why 15 of the 21
commandos came from Saudi Arabia, the chief US ally in the Persian
Gulf. There wasn't a single Iraqi onboard those planes. Not even
accidentally.
Apart from all the suspicion, there is no doubt that the chaotic
forty-third president of the US, anointed by fraudulent elections, in
the middle of an impressive recession with no end in view, with the
lowest initial approval ratings for a head of state, has moved on to
dominate the stage by acquiring powers inconceivable in a democracy
and been crowned the avenging Emperor that he may cleanse the affront
the barbarians had infringed upon his people.
The American Burning of the Reichstag of September 11 gave George Bush
the chance of a lifetime. The worst electoral victory of a US
president since 1876 had turned into the best historical opportunity
for a warmonger to impose a new US order on the world.
As in Hitler's case, the first thing he did was to surround himself
with a clique of con artists such as himself, men obsessed with the
intimidating power of force. Like Goering, Goebbels, Himmler, Mengele,
or Eichmann, the Texan president searched for the protective shell of
an iron guard, often more war-like than himself to impede any
temptation to doubt, and men of a common stamp: all oilmen. The
vice-president, Dick Cheney, came from Halliburton Oil, the chief of
the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld, from Occidental, another oil company,
the National Security Advisor, the spinster Condoleeza Rice, whose
name in Spanish by a twist of fate means "with sweetness", was on
Chevron's board of directors and has oil tankers named after her. Then
there's the Secretary of the Interior, Gale Norton, who is also linked
to the oil industry, as is Bush Sr. with the Carlyle oil group, and
the current president, Bush Jr. with Harkins Oil.
This quintet of death around warrior Bush, a true mafiocracy, as with
the quintet who joined Hitler, were fed on a very special Bible. In
this case the philosophies of Hegel, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, which
formed and inflamed the inventor of the Holocaust of the 20th century,
were replaced by less cultivated specimens who did not posses such an
esteemed intellectual lineage, but who were more useful for the Hitler
of the 21st century.
What is the bedtime reading of this gang of warmongers?
The Bostonian Henry Cabot Lodge asserting that "in the 19th century,
no other people equalled our conquests, our colonisation or our
expansion, nobody will stop us now". Marse Henry Watterson stated that
the US "is a great imperial republic destined to exercise a
determining influence on mankind and mould the world's future as no
other nation has ever done before, not even the Roman Empire". Or
Charles Krauthammer who not long ago, in 1999, declared in the
Washington Post: "the US rides over the world like a colossus. Since
the time that Rome destroyed Carthage, no other great power has
reached the heights we have attained. The US has won the Cold War,
Poland and the Czech Republic are in its pocket, and then it
pulverises Serbia and Afghanistan. And, on the way, it has proved the
non-existence of Europe". Or Robert Kaplan pointing out that "the US
victory in the Second World War, as with Rome's victory in the Second
Punic War, made it a universal power". Or the well-known historian,
Paul Kennedy, explaining that "neither Pax Britanica, nor Napoleonic
France, nor the Spain of Felipe II, nor Charlemagne's Empire, or even
the Roman Empire could compare to the current US dominion. Never
before has there been such a wide disparity in power on the world
stage".
Or the director of the Olin Strategic Studies Centre of Harvard
University, Professor Stephen Peter Rosen, stating that "our objective
is not to fight a rival, as he doesn't exist, but to preserve our
imperial position and keep imperial order".
Or the ineffable Zbigniew Brzezinski declaring that "the objective of
the US should be to maintain our vassal states in a state of
dependency, to guarantee the docility and protection of our subjects
and to prevent the barbarians from uniting".
Or president Wilson declaring in the Union Congress that "I would
teach the South American republics how to elect good representatives".
Or the famous Billy Sunday who defined a Latin American left-winger as
"someone with a porcupine's snout and breath that would scare a skunk
away", adding that if he could, "he would pile them all into prisons
until their feet stuck out the windows".
Now listen to the current US vice-president, Dick Cheney, and the
Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, who with Sweetness Rice form
the belligerent triangle, more fearsome than the Bermuda Triangle.
Faced with this holy war, Cheney declared: "the US need not blush for
being a great power. It has the duty to use force in order to create a
world in the image of the US". The chief of the Pentagon put it more
clearly, in case we failed to understand. Rumsfeld dixit, quoting Al
Capone's favourite line: "You get more with a nice word and a gun,
than with only a nice word."
This language which oozes from Bush's pores and brain is a dense,
authoritarian, intimidating use of language which inevitably leads to
morally perverting the ends to justify the means. The essential nature
of the language used by the Bush gang, as with the language of the
Nazis, is its simplification, reductionism and intimidation. This
predatory group's language is a schematic, emotional language loaded
with prejudices which inflame the people's noblest sentiments. I have
no doubt that Bush feeds off the same source as Nazi language.
Like Hitler, Bush does not believe in the Rule of Law. This is not a
State which possesses Laws, but a State which yields, of its own
accord, to the rule of law and in no circumstances can it break the
law, even less for reasons of State. Abominable crimes have been
committed in the name of reasons of State, or the Homeland, or
national security.
What differences can there be between the intellectual edifices
created by Bush and Hitler when it comes to reasons of state? Not many
I believe. Except for differences of style, age and magnitude of might
and power.
The Bush clique's discourse is a discourse between master and slave.
It is no different from the Hitler clique's discourse. One is
friendlier than the other. Though history is showing us that the less
friendly one was less lethal.
Civilisation, savagery, pacifying the barbarians, the chosen people
and from there to the chosen race in a single step. In short, does
this remind us of the psychopath with the moustache?
And talking of moustaches, the account given by an influential
Washington security advisor to the Argentinean magazine Noticias is
instructive: "For better or worse, George Bush Jr. is the most
appropriate person for this war. He was born for it. He shakes with
the power coming from within. When you're with him in his office he
seems like he's about to eat up whoever is in front of him. He sits on
the edge of his chair, almost without resting on it and moves his arms
as if he doesn't know what to do with them. He needs action".
Now there's a good imitation of the gesticulating Nazi dictator.
Though the phlegm of a Texan cowboy, with pistol in holster, is not
the same as a semi-epileptic Teuton choking with rage and spitting out
his words as he wildly gesticulates. Bush doesn't spit when he speaks.
It's his soul that spits, hate and violence, generating terror. He
couldn't care less. He must have learnt Caligula's "oderint dum
metuant" ("Let them hate us, it's enough that they fear us").
Bush's emotional incontinence is already a classic and, like Adolf, he
won't take NO for an answer. His wife, Laura Bush, once told the press
that the first time she said she didn't like one of his speeches, he
crashed his car against the garage wall in rage.
He comes across as a Nazi deity, an emissary of God, whom he summons
whenever the opportunity presents itself. He has ordered all cabinet
meetings to begin with prayer. And claims to have consulted God before
attacking Iraq, dismissing the position of the majority of the
planet's nations and 90% of mankind. He attempts to imitate president
William McKinley invading the Philippines to bring the Gospel to the
natives and blaming God for ordering him to invade the country against
his will.
Another coincidence in these parallel lives, which would have pleased
Plutarch no end, is that Hitler and Bush would have avoided entering
the Hall of Fame for History's Buffoons if they had only had access to
a decent psychoanalyst. A good psychoanalyst would have helped them
both channel their libidos into more normal duties, and learning to
control the only aphrodisiac they have ever known: cruel,
all-embracing power over others.
Let's go on and look at other similarities between the warrior for the
Aryan race and "God's warrior", as Telma Luzzani so perceptively calls
the excitable Texan. Bush declares a pre-emptive war, urbi et orbe. In
1953, Dwight Eisenhower had no doubts on the matter: "Pre-emptive war
was invented by Adolf Hitler. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't take
anyone who came up with such a thing seriously".
But pre-emptive war against whom? It is a well known fact that truth
is the first casualty of war. And the first thing Bush does to
manufacture his pre-emptive war, after the burning of the Reichstag,
is to lie like Goebbels in such an unsophisticated manner that nobody
believes a word of it. First he said that Iraq was supporting
al-Qaeda. When it was shown that there ran an irreconcilable hatred
between Saddam Hussein and the ex-US-employee Osama Bin Laden, Bush
appealed to have Iraq included on his list of Moslem fundamentalism.
Difficult to believe in the most secular country in the Arab world. He
then claimed there were weapons of mass destruction. Asserting that
Iraq wouldn't allow inspections and, when it did, declaring that it
wouldn't let the UN enter Saddam's palaces or any other protected
places. When it was then revealed that this wasn't the case, the
administration said that the weapons were well hidden. In the end, not
a single weapon of mass destruction has been found. When all the
arguments were well and truly buried, he insisted that Saddam Hussein
should stand down or go into exile, while admitting the real truth: we
want to occupy Iraqi territory, no matter what, and decide who will
govern the country. Planetary democracy they call it. The very same
disinformation campaign that Hitler launched against Czechoslovakia,
Austria and Poland. The same excuses that would change as soon as they
were overrun.
Another resemblance is the disdain for the international community and
public world opinion. Hitler destroyed the League of Nations founded
in 1919. Bush tore the United Nations to shreds, inciting the greatest
opposition to a country since the founding of the UN: 170 nations did
not support the war against the 30 that did, the majority lightweight
states or the result of the break up of the Soviet Union, and ready to
sell themselves to the highest bidder. Bush, like Hitler, was not
stopped by the greatest defeat to US diplomacy since the founding of
the UN. Hitler was never concerned about the hate and condemnation he
generated in people's hearts. Bush hopes to surpass the Teuton. The
mass demonstrations without precedent on the face of the planet are
war-drums to Bush's Wagnerian ears. He is faced with the spirit of
Seattle which, in 1999, founded the most important pacifist,
anti-globalisation movement of all time. Nothing stops him.
It was outrageous to see the rudeness meted out to the UN chief of
inspectors, Hans Blix: a man with 75 years on his back, born in frozen
yet wonderful Uppsala in social-democratic Sweden, an honourable
follower of the democratic traditions passed down by the martyr Olof
Palme.
(...)
Vandar
Awwww... what's the matter, melly? Are my usenet posts preventing you
from conducting your precious little investigation? Are your efforts
stymied by text on a screen?
If so, shut off your computer, ya fucking idiot.
mellstrrr
barge...@yahoo.com
international consortium.
Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
and
scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
John
McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what
really
happened on 9/11.
They have joined with others in common cause as members of "Scholars
for
9/11 Truth" (S9/11T), because they are convinced, based on their own
research, that the administration has been deceiving the nation about
critical events in New York and Washington, D.C.
These experts suggest these events may have been orchestrated by
elements
within the administration to manipulate Americans into supporting
policies at
home and abroad they would never have condoned absent "another Pearl
Harbor."
They believe that this White House is incapable of investigating itself
and
hope the possibility that Congress might hold an unaccountable
administration
accountable is not merely naive or wishful thinking.
They are encouraging news services around the world to secure
scientific
advice by taking advantage of university resources to verify or to
falsify
their discoveries. Extraordinary situations, they believe, require
extraordinary measures. [...]
Read entire story at:
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/1/emw339303.htm
For more of this type of news, see:
http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs.php
EagleEye
>
> Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>
> You keep ignoring the question.
We do and are now on the case, both in terms of practicing professional
high rise Structural Engineering, Construction Mgmt, and Building
Materials Science discplines, as well as Professors from recognized
Educational Institutions. I spoke to someone who's involved very
closely with this new group, and that is now a priority, and I will be
assisting in this regard to some extent.
Thank you for your input BDK and Vandar. Your handlers won't be too
pleased with you now, as you've just served to significantly add to the
snowball effect.. ;o)
Vandars comment also, about how this new group of investigative
scholars for 911 truth does not speak for the victim's family members,
who he claims are all satisfied with the official story and 9/11
Commission Report. That too is going to be addressed in due course.
Fetzer was on Air America today btw and the story was carried in both
the Miami Herald and the Boston Globe.
Professor Steven Jones also conducted a major 9/11 seminar at the Utah
State Valley College in Orem.
http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/
He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by
video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study
of Ethics.
Thursday, February 02, 2006
Questions remain from 9/11 report, professor says PDF | Print | E-mail
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNA CHANG-YEN - Daily Herald
A BYU physics professor speaking on Wednesday night implied a
government cover-up of what really happened on Sept. 11, 2001, and cast
doubt on the blame placed on Osama bin Laden.
Professor Steven E. Jones suggested before the attacks the Bush
administration was seeking a way to increase military spending and
invade Iraq. The ensuing attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan have created
most of Muslims' disdain for America, he said.
He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by
video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study
of Ethics.
Center director David Keller said, "The collapse of the World Trade
Center buildings illustrates a strange convergence of physics,
engineering, ethics and politics."
Jones is a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, a group of academics who
dispute the government's account of 9/11, and has contributed to a
yet-unpublished book about the issue.
Although official government explanations of why Building Seven fell
seven hours after the second tower fell cite fire that melted the
steel, Jones said the fire was not hot enough. The way the building
fell also was not compatible with the theory, he said, and is more
telling of an explosion.
"It's looking impossible to me as I look at these calculations that the
official explanation could be correct. It violates the laws of
physics," he said.
Instead, he said he suspects a thermite detonation from inside the
building, possibly in the elevator shafts. But Jones said the steel is
being disassembled and sent to Asia for recycling. While "pathological
science," or destroying evidence that does not support a theory, is an
offense on its own, "In this case we can call it unethical because it
was a crime scene," he said.
A video tape purported to show bin Laden confessing to masterminding
the attacks was a fake, Jones said, and other tapes in which bin Laden
denied involvement were more likely authentic.
"They have this 'smoking gun confession tape,' but it's not him," he
said.
Jones asked why fighter jets did not intercept the planes that hit the
World Trade Center and Pentagon.
"Where were our defenses that day? This concerns me deeply," he said.
He was suspicious about why there was no paper trail showing how the
attacks were planned, and asked why the government had not acknowledged
finding three of four black boxes from the hijacked airplanes.
There is evidence the government had previous knowledge of the attacks,
he said, citing changes in government employee travel plans because of
security concerns.
After the second tower was hit, President George Bush sat for about 20
minutes in the classroom where he was reading to children after hearing
about the attacks.
Jones asked where Bush's security officers were. "This is puzzling and
disturbing in the sense it's not explained. I don't see how it can be
explained unless they knew beforehand."
He also complained of more recent infractions of the Bush
administration.
"We need to get back to the Constitution in law. No one should break
the law with impunity," Jones said.
He cited Bush's authorization of warrantless wiretapping by the
National Security Agency.
"I'm wondering, 'Why not do it legally?' The law allows this. Who's
being spied on?" Jones asked. He also was troubled by the U.S. torture
policy and widening executive powers, and set his sites on the dangers
of pre-emptive wars.
"I think we need to question wars of aggression. I have noticed there's
a sword rattling relative to Iran lately," Jones said.
After a standing ovation, Jones took questions from the audience. Jerry
Owens of Midway, who heads a group called 9/11 Truth Seekers, called
Jones a true American hero.
"He's putting his life on the line," Owens said. "It's time for all of
us to be patriots. We have to put our lives on the line, and now is the
time."
The group is circulating a petition for a 9/11 investigation headed by
a citizens committee, Owens said. "This is the smoking gun where we can
prove what our government's doing."
Chris Newman, a sophomore multimedia communications major at UVSC who
signed the petition, is making a documentary about a possible 9/11
conspiracy.
"I used to be a hard-core Republican, pro-Bush and everything," he
said. "I'm independent now. I have some major doubts about the Bush
administration. Hopefully the truth will come out."
Anna Chang-Yen can be reached at 344-2549 or an...@heraldextra.com.
This story appeared in The Daily Herald on page A1.
MilSpec FuckHead
news:MPG.1e4d6b87c...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> In article <Xns975F689C6...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
> says...
>> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1e4d3e8e1...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>>
>> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>> >
>> > You keep ignoring the question.
>>
>> Any old engineer, who has no idea of the details of this case?
>
> Any accredited structural engineer, picked at random would probably
have
> looked at the official version already, besides all the stuff on both
> sides is on the net, right??
It is. So why bother with him, then?
> Even the "kook" details.
>
>>
>> Why? To what end?
>
> So you can stop the fucking insanity!
What insanity? How so?
> Run the official cause, and your best thermite, controlled demo, etc
> past him, and let him tell you his opinion. then pick another engineer,
> and let them tell you too.
Meanwhile, you already ignore any experts who don't agree with what you
believe...
>> > I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>>
>> We're all very proud of you.
>
> Gee thanks, but why won't you do it?
>
> What are you and your homies scared of?
Idiots. I was talking to a very experienced construction worker/welder.
He maintained that the WTCs HAD NO CORES.
> There's only one thing that can happen to you..
>
> You'll feel like an idiot, and be out what the engineer charges..
So you suggest I pay someone money because some tard on usenet says I
should?
> Hey, why don't you say you are a "reporter" doing an article about
> "alternate 911 theories" and he might do it for free.
>
> He will laugh at them. Really.
So you say.
MilSpec FuckHead
news:MPG.1e4d6c3f2...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> Hey, I'm King of the Loons!
Congratulations.
mellstrrr
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>> Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>>
>> You keep ignoring the question.
>>
>> I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>>
>> BDK
>
>Thank you for your advice and imput. Adding Structural Engineers and
>Construction Mgmt Engineers will soon become one of their top
>priorities.
So they have to go out and recruit such people? Don't you find that
sort of strange if they are right in their beliefs?
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>> LOL, nice rave there...7 out of 10...
>>
>> Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>>
>> You keep ignoring the question.
>
>We do and are now on the case, both in terms of practicing professional
>high rise Structural Engineering, Construction Mgmt, and Building
>Materials Science discplines, as well as Professors from recognized
>Educational Institutions. I spoke to someone who's involved very
>closely with this new group, and that is now a priority, and I will be
>assisting in this regard to some extent.
So does that mean that you are a "FM" or an "AM" in the group?
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
And how are any of us "in the way", Melly?
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>news:MPG.1e4d3de58...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
>> In article <Xns975EEA312...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
>> says...
>>> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>>> news:MPG.1e4ca5345...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>>>
>>> > virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
>>> > construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC
>>> > coming down
>>>
>>> Cite?
>>>
>>> How do you know what everyone thinks?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Cite??
>>
>> How do you cite people who *aren't* claiming there's a "coverup"?
>
>How do you know what everyone thinks?
>
>> Because there are THOUSANDS of engineers that don't disagree with the
>> official 911 cause of the WTC collapsing!
>
>And there are thousands who do.
Then why do you have so much trouble naming some?
mellstrrr
> mellstrrr wrote:
>
>>> EagleEye wrote:
>>>
>>>>> People said the same thing in 1963, 1969, and 1986, among others.
>>>>> They were all wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This isn't then and 9/11 is an event like no other. The truth will
>>>> out.
>>>> Can't not. Eventually a new citizens grand jury will form, which, as
>>>> this thing picks of more steam, may even get subpeona powers at some
>>>> stage in this high stakes endeavour.
>>>>
>>>> What, you don't want a new investigation into what happened on 9/11?
>>>> Don't the victims families, and all the countless 1000's who'v died
>>>> needlessly in the wake of 9/11 deserve as much?
>>>
>>> I couldn't care care less
It would appear that a PR firm pays you far,far too much for you to ever
"care less".
Asshole.
<snip usual dreck>
>> Then shut up and get out of the way, traitorist-government apologist.
>> Your opinion on these subjects is well-worn, and quite tiresome.
>
> Awwww... what's the matter, melly? Are my usenet posts preventing you
> from conducting your precious little investigation?
Look around you, stupid. People are asking questions all over the place
out here about the Hoax of an Official 9/11 Story, and your mindless
prattle isn't stopping them.
If you're not making a difference, and you "couldn't care less", then shut
up already.
george
Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
EagleEye
> construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
> 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
findings.
gerry
Three high rise steel structures coming down from building fires in the
space of hours is some coincidence. Goldfinger, meeting james Bond for
the third time, said that the third chance meeting could not be
coincidence anymore, so it was time for Goldfinger to take action
against Bond.
The words "action" and "thorough investigation" are alien to the Bush
administration's handling of 9/11. Just the other day, a Federal judge
issued a lengthy decision harshly criticizing the EPA and Christine
Todd Whitman for telling people downtown Manhattan air was safe on
9/18/01, information that was false and based on no valid testing. How
can you trust liars like Whitman and Bush and Cheney on anything,
including what happened on 9/11? You can't.
And while anyone can disagree with this statement of opinion, please
don't refer to news video of the WTC collapse to justify an arguement
on what caused the building to come down. Infrared cameras such as
FLIR cameras could see through the smoke and debris falling from the
building to detect heat signatures from either deforming steel trusses
or daisy-chained explosives in stairwells (take your pick), but the CCD
sensors on TV news crews video cameras did not seem to have had that
ability on 9/11.
Vandar wrote:
> Knowledge Basehead wrote:
>
> > BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
> > news:MPG.1e4d3de58...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> >
> >
> >>In article <Xns975EEA312...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
> >>says...
> >>
> >>>BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
> >>>news:MPG.1e4ca5345...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>virtually nobody who is an actual expert in building
> >>>>construction has a problem with the "official" cause of the WTC
> >>>>coming down
> >>>
> >>>Cite?
> >>>
> >>>How do you know what everyone thinks?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Cite??
> >>
> >>How do you cite people who *aren't* claiming there's a "coverup"?
> >
> >
> > How do you know what everyone thinks?
> >
> >
> >>Because there are THOUSANDS of engineers that don't disagree with the
> >>official 911 cause of the WTC collapsing!
> >
> >
> > And there are thousands who do.
>
> Name three.
Dogchain
<age...@justicespammail.com> wrote in message
news:20b5u158u893q56a2...@4ax.com...
> On 2 Feb 2006 16:38:54 -0800, "EagleEye" <jne...@globalmanagement.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>> What's he doing for a living these days?
>>
>>Don't know, but you are obviously referring to the fact that he was
>>sumarily fired for questioning the information his employer,
>>Underwriters Labs was commissioned to prepare for NIST.
>
> He was fired for lying.
Lying?
edrh...@hotmail.com
Quintal wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 23:25:14 -0500, BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <aua5u15agnhv07q0e...@4ax.com>, agent86
> >@justicespammail.com says...
> >> On 2 Feb 2006 16:22:17 -0800, "EagleEye" <jne...@globalmanagement.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> And not a single structural engineer in the bunch.
> >> >
> >> >There will be soon enough. Kevin Ryan is a member also let us not
> >> >forget.
To have credibility, there should have been some at the format of the
group.
> it cant dawn on your foggy mind apparently, but people doubt the
> official story because officials are notoriously crooked AND that
> story is especially ridiculous. BTW I havent seen you guys reply to
> that one :
>
>
> THE LOONIEST OF ALL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES
> by Gerard Holmgren
Quite frankly, the idea that a group of extremists flew planes into
buildings which then collapsed from a combination of trauma,
heat-induced support weakening <and> the weight of the undamaged floors
above added to the fact that the WTC was a unique construction with the
vertical supports clustered in the center of the building and the
additional support distributed along the skin is to me certainly LESS
loony than the idea that someone planted explosives and cut supports
(or used thermite) to make the buildings collapse. Also, your theory
misses one very important fact. The building collapsed from the top
down. Look at the videos, the lower floors aren't moving, the upper
floors are crushing them!
edrh...@hotmail.com
barge...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
> international consortium.
>
> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
> and
> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
> John
> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
> senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what
> really
> happened on 9/11.
Who are these people and what are they experts in?
edrh...@hotmail.com
EagleEye wrote:
> > LOL, nice rave there...7 out of 10...
> >
> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
> >
> > You keep ignoring the question.
>
> We do and are now on the case, both in terms of practicing professional
> high rise Structural Engineering, Construction Mgmt, and Building
> Materials Science discplines, as well as Professors from recognized
> Educational Institutions. I spoke to someone who's involved very
> closely with this new group, and that is now a priority, and I will be
> assisting in this regard to some extent.
So now that you've formed the group, NOW you're going to start looking
for experts to question? Seems to me if there was anything in your
opinions, there would be experts looking to join you from the outset.
edrh...@hotmail.com
And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
the conspiracy.
Vandar
Nor is it intended to, dumbass.
> If you're not making a difference, and you "couldn't care less", then
> shut up already.
No, fascist.
MilSpec FuckHead
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> So now that you've formed the group, NOW you're going to start looking
> for experts to question?
When would you do it?
> Seems to me if there was anything in your
> opinions, there would be experts looking to join you from the outset.
Without them even knowing about its existence?
MilSpec FuckHead
news:1139068381....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Quintal wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 23:25:14 -0500, BDK
>> <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <aua5u15agnhv07q0e...@4ax.com>, agent86
>> >@justicespammail.com says...
>> >> On 2 Feb 2006 16:22:17 -0800, "EagleEye"
>> >> <jne...@globalmanagement.ca> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> And not a single structural engineer in the bunch.
>> >> >
>> >> >There will be soon enough. Kevin Ryan is a member also let us not
>> >> >forget.
>
> To have credibility, there should have been some at the format of the
> group.
And you should have a mastery of basic english.
>> it cant dawn on your foggy mind apparently, but people doubt the
>> official story because officials are notoriously crooked AND that
>> story is especially ridiculous. BTW I havent seen you guys reply to
>> that one :
>>
>>
>> THE LOONIEST OF ALL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES
>> by Gerard Holmgren
>
> Quite frankly, the idea that a group of extremists flew planes into
> buildings which then collapsed from a combination of trauma,
> heat-induced support weakening <and> the weight of the undamaged
> floors above added to the fact that the WTC was a unique construction
> with the vertical supports clustered in the center of the building and
> the additional support distributed along the skin is to me certainly
> LESS loony than the idea that someone planted explosives and cut
> supports (or used thermite) to make the buildings collapse. Also, your
> theory misses one very important fact. The building collapsed from the
> top down. Look at the videos, the lower floors aren't moving, the
> upper floors are crushing them!
In the manner of a controlled demolition...
MilSpec FuckHead
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
What is Google.com, and what can it offer you, the person with questions?
MilSpec FuckHead
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Another false statement from a pro-government usenetter.
Surprise!
Vandar
Jason thinks controlled demolition is a top-down crushing of a building.
edrh...@hotmail.com
MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068548.690284.266550
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > barge...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
> >> international consortium.
> >>
> >> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
> >> and
> >> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
> >> John
> >> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
> >> senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what
> >> really
> >> happened on 9/11.
> >
> >
> > Who are these people and what are they experts in?
>
> What is Google.com, and what can it offer you, the person with questions?
It's not my job to look these people up. It's yours to present them and
tell us what their creditentials are.
(I always laugh when I hear someone say; "I Googled so-and-so." I
Googled myself once, found a professor in Southern California. Googled
Mark Lewis once. (A magician on another board) Found ONE reference to
him and several references to other "Mark Lewis's" who'd done some odd
things!)
edrh...@hotmail.com
MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068847.587916.185200
> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > EagleEye wrote:
> >> > Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
> >> > construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
> >> > 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
> >>
> >> You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
> >>
> >> We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
> >> had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
> >>
> >> These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
> >> findings.
> >
> > And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
> > the conspiracy.
>
> Another false statement from a pro-government usenetter.
>
> Surprise!
We'll see. I haven't seen a conspiracy theorist yet who honestly
accepted that someone disagreeing with him might have a legitimate
point. It always boils down to; "You're obviously part of the
conspiracy!" You might surprise me... but I doubt it.
Vandar
"It doesn’t matter how much evidence you have one way or the other,
conspiracy theories are always fungible and irrefutable - all evidence
against the theory is presented by the conspiracist as "evidence" for
how powerful the theory is."
You can't disagree with a conspiracy theorist without being for what the
theorist is against.
Didn't you get the memo?
MilSpec FuckHead
news:1139071914.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
>> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068548.690284.266550
>> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >
>> > barge...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by
>> >> an international consortium.
>> >>
>> >> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished
>> >> experts and
>> >> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne
>> >> Madsen, John
>> >> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded
>> >> that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts
>> >> about what really
>> >> happened on 9/11.
>> >
>> >
>> > Who are these people and what are they experts in?
>>
>> What is Google.com, and what can it offer you, the person with
>> questions?
>
> It's not my job to look these people up. It's yours to present them
> and tell us what their creditentials are.
No, asshole, it's not.
> (I always laugh when I hear someone say; "I Googled so-and-so." I
> Googled myself once, found a professor in Southern California. Googled
> Mark Lewis once. (A magician on another board) Found ONE reference to
> him and several references to other "Mark Lewis's" who'd done some odd
> things!)
Why don't you go Google yourself right now?
MilSpec FuckHead
news:1139072142.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I'm sure you can provide numerous citations to back up your claim. Right?
How about one?
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>> Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
>> construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
>> 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
>
>You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
>
>We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
>had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
Like that hasn't happened in the past four years.
>These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
>findings.
And again, it's interesting that you have to go out and find/beg
structural engineers, architects, and others in the construction
business to look at your conspiracy wacko junk, all the while ignoring
all of those same type people who already have looked at it and
published their findings.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068847.587916.185200
>@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> EagleEye wrote:
>>> > Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
>>> > construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
>>> > 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
>>>
>>> You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
>>>
>>> We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
>>> had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
>>>
>>> These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
>>> findings.
>>
>> And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
>> the conspiracy.
>
>Another false statement from a pro-government usenetter.
>
>Surprise!
It's not a surprise, Jason, it's already happened. You've done it
often enough.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
Go back and review some of your own posts, Jason. I'm sure you'll
find an example.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
From UL:
Paul M. Baker
Manager, Media Relations
Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.
Northbrook, Ill., USA
(847) 272-8800 ext. 41001
Cell: (847) 602-2828
Paul.M.Baker(@)us.ul.com
UL Letter text:
On Nov. 11, 2004, a letter from Kevin Ryan, a former employee of
Underwriters Laboratories Inc., addressed to the National Institute of
Standards & Technology (NIST), was posted on a Web site called the
9-11 Visibility Project (www.septembereleventh.org). In the letter,
Mr. Ryan speculated on the causes of the collapse of the World Trade
Center towers.
Mr. Ryan wrote the letter without ULís knowledge or authorization. Mr.
Ryan was neither qualified nor authorized to speak on ULís behalf
regarding this issue. The opinions he expressed in the letter are his
own and do not reflect those of Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
ULís Fire Protection Division has assisted NIST in its investigations
regarding the collapse of the WTC towers. However, Mr. Ryan was not
involved in that work and was not associated in any way with ULís Fire
Protection Division, which conducted testing at NISTís request.
Rather, Mr. Ryan was employed in ULís water testing business,
Environmental Health Laboratory, in South Bend, Indiana.
Underwriters Laboratories Inc. fully supports NISTís ongoing efforts
to investigate the WTC tragedy. We regret any confusion that Mr.
Ryanís letter has caused 9/11 survivors, victimsí families and their
friends.
BDK
> news:MPG.1e4d6c3f2...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
> > Hey, I'm King of the Loons!
>
> Congratulations.
>
>
Weak....
BDK
Vandar
Asking for him to prove he hasn't seen something. How typical.
BDK
jne...@globalmanagement.ca says...
> > LOL, nice rave there...7 out of 10...
> >
> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
> >
> > You keep ignoring the question.
>
> We do and are now on the case, both in terms of practicing professional
> high rise Structural Engineering, Construction Mgmt, and Building
> Materials Science discplines, as well as Professors from recognized
> Educational Institutions. I spoke to someone who's involved very
> closely with this new group, and that is now a priority, and I will be
> assisting in this regard to some extent.
>
> pleased with you now, as you've just served to significantly add to the
> snowball effect.. ;o)
Handlers?
LOL, you're getting into "The CIA is sending signals to my brain using a
secret technology" territory. If you really believe our occupation is
"blocking" your attempts to get the "truth out", you need to see a
mental health professional, fast, cause you are losing it son, and going
down fast..
>
> Vandars comment also, about how this new group of investigative
> scholars for 911 truth does not speak for the victim's family members,
> who he claims are all satisfied with the official story and 9/11
> Commission Report. That too is going to be addressed in due course.
Sure, sure..dream on, you dreamed all this up, right?.
>
> Fetzer was on Air America today btw and the story was carried in both
> the Miami Herald and the Boston Globe.
>
> Professor Steven Jones also conducted a major 9/11 seminar at the Utah
> State Valley College in Orem.
> http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/
>
> He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by
> video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study
> of Ethics.
There are large numbers of you gullible kooks out there, sadly.
>
> Thursday, February 02, 2006
> Questions remain from 9/11 report, professor says PDF | Print | E-mail
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ANNA CHANG-YEN - Daily Herald
> A BYU physics professor speaking on Wednesday night implied a
> government cover-up of what really happened on Sept. 11, 2001, and cast
> doubt on the blame placed on Osama bin Laden.
>
> Professor Steven E. Jones suggested before the attacks the Bush
> administration was seeking a way to increase military spending and
> invade Iraq. The ensuing attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan have created
> most of Muslims' disdain for America, he said.
Umm, and you don't think that there were much easier ways of doing it
than slamming planes into them, and according to you, using explosives
to bring down the buildings??
Sheesh.
>
> He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by
> video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study
> of Ethics.
>
> Center director David Keller said, "The collapse of the World Trade
> Center buildings illustrates a strange convergence of physics,
> engineering, ethics and politics."
>
> Jones is a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, a group of academics who
> dispute the government's account of 9/11, and has contributed to a
> yet-unpublished book about the issue.
A vanity publisher would be the best bet. It's gonna be big on Ebay for
a while, then to the paper recyclers..
>
> Although official government explanations of why Building Seven fell
> seven hours after the second tower fell cite fire that melted the
> steel, Jones said the fire was not hot enough. The way the building
> fell also was not compatible with the theory, he said, and is more
> telling of an explosion.
Hoo boy, here comes the nonsense, by the shovelful. You guys and the
magical steel.
>
> "It's looking impossible to me as I look at these calculations that the
> official explanation could be correct. It violates the laws of
> physics," he said.
He needs to rethink his 'cipherin...or talk to a real expert.
>
> Instead, he said he suspects a thermite detonation from inside the
> building, possibly in the elevator shafts. But Jones said the steel is
> being disassembled and sent to Asia for recycling. While "pathological
> science," or destroying evidence that does not support a theory, is an
> offense on its own, "In this case we can call it unethical because it
> was a crime scene," he said.
Jeezus, THERMITE? How many strokes has this guy had? It's sad actually.
>
> A video tape purported to show bin Laden confessing to masterminding
> the attacks was a fake, Jones said, and other tapes in which bin Laden
> denied involvement were more likely authentic.
Oh?? Says him, and ????
>
> "They have this 'smoking gun confession tape,' but it's not him," he
> said.
And who is it?
>
> Jones asked why fighter jets did not intercept the planes that hit the
> World Trade Center and Pentagon.
>
> "Where were our defenses that day? This concerns me deeply," he said.
And he has no clue as to haw things really work...in so many ways. He
fits right into the Uberkook's storytelling.
>
> He was suspicious about why there was no paper trail showing how the
> attacks were planned, and asked why the government had not acknowledged
> finding three of four black boxes from the hijacked airplanes.
>
> There is evidence the government had previous knowledge of the attacks,
> he said, citing changes in government employee travel plans because of
> security concerns.
Sure, sure. What meds is this guy on?
>
> After the second tower was hit, President George Bush sat for about 20
> minutes in the classroom where he was reading to children after hearing
> about the attacks.
Well, Bush is..Bush. Not the highest of intellects.
>
> Jones asked where Bush's security officers were. "This is puzzling and
> disturbing in the sense it's not explained. I don't see how it can be
> explained unless they knew beforehand."
Where do you think they should have been, in the classroom to protect
him from a kid running with scissors?
>
> He also complained of more recent infractions of the Bush
> administration.
>
> "We need to get back to the Constitution in law. No one should break
> the law with impunity," Jones said.
>
> He cited Bush's authorization of warrantless wiretapping by the
> National Security Agency.
A lot of us are wondering about that, but he's trying too hard to see
something not there.
>
> "I'm wondering, 'Why not do it legally?' The law allows this. Who's
> being spied on?" Jones asked. He also was troubled by the U.S. torture
> policy and widening executive powers, and set his sites on the dangers
> of pre-emptive wars.
>
> "I think we need to question wars of aggression. I have noticed there's
> a sword rattling relative to Iran lately," Jones said.
>
> After a standing ovation, Jones took questions from the audience. Jerry
> Owens of Midway, who heads a group called 9/11 Truth Seekers, called
> Jones a true American hero.
>
> "He's putting his life on the line," Owens said. "It's time for all of
> us to be patriots. We have to put our lives on the line, and now is the
> time."
Oh yeah, the CIA/FBI/PICK YOUR FAVORITE spooks are going to come and
take care of you all. You love thinking it's true, don't you?
>
> The group is circulating a petition for a 9/11 investigation headed by
> a citizens committee, Owens said. "This is the smoking gun where we can
> prove what our government's doing."
A "Kook Commission"? LOL, it would make great TV to see the crackpots
get shot down by REAL experts.
>
> Chris Newman, a sophomore multimedia communications major at UVSC who
> signed the petition, is making a documentary about a possible 9/11
> conspiracy.
>
> "I used to be a hard-core Republican, pro-Bush and everything," he
> said. "I'm independent now. I have some major doubts about the Bush
> administration. Hopefully the truth will come out."
The truth is, there are a lotta kooks out there believing kooky shit.
>
> Anna Chang-Yen can be reached at 344-2549 or an...@heraldextra.com.
>
> This story appeared in The Daily Herald on page A1.
>
That's what it is, a story. It belongs in a novel.
BDK
BDK
> news:MPG.1e4d6b87c...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>
> > In article <Xns975F689C6...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
> >> news:MPG.1e4d3e8e1...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> >>
> >> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
> >> >
> >> > You keep ignoring the question.
> >>
> >
> > Any accredited structural engineer, picked at random would probably
> have
> > looked at the official version already, besides all the stuff on both
> > sides is on the net, right??
>
> It is. So why bother with him, then?
So you might buy yourself a clue..
>
> > Even the "kook" details.
> >
> >>
> >> Why? To what end?
> >
> > So you can stop the fucking insanity!
>
> What insanity? How so?
Well, a kook never knows he's a kook.
>
> > Run the official cause, and your best thermite, controlled demo, etc
> > past him, and let him tell you his opinion. then pick another engineer,
> > and let them tell you too.
>
> Meanwhile, you already ignore any experts who don't agree with what you
> believe...
LOL, very few DON'T agree with me. You're the one claiming that only you
and your fellow kooks are doing their patriotic duty to expose the
conspiracy..blah blah blah.
For every expert you can come up with, "our side", aka sanity, can come
up with about 99 more.
>
>
> >> > I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
> >>
> >> We're all very proud of you.
> >
> > Gee thanks, but why won't you do it?
> >
> > What are you and your homies scared of?
>
> Idiots. I was talking to a very experienced construction worker/welder.
> He maintained that the WTCs HAD NO CORES.
Why won't you talk to an engineer? I know how stupid some construction
workers are, I went to HS with a few guys who do it for a living now.
One works in the Nuke industry! Scary as hell.
>
>
> > There's only one thing that can happen to you..
> >
> > You'll feel like an idiot, and be out what the engineer charges..
>
>
> So you suggest I pay someone money because some tard on usenet says I
> should?
You should do it to learn the real story, since you don't seem to be
understanding it so far, and claim to want to let everyone know what's
REALLY going on..
>
>
> > Hey, why don't you say you are a "reporter" doing an article about
> > "alternate 911 theories" and he might do it for free.
> >
> > He will laugh at them. Really.
>
> So you say.
>
Just tell them about the thermite. Wait till he's drinking something.
Shooting stuff out the nose is always fun to see. Then hit him with the
controlled demo shit, and watch him roll on the floor.
BDK
Freedom Fighter
news:1138989298....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> People said the same thing in 1963, 1969, and 1986, among others.
>> They were all wrong.
>
> This isn't then and 9/11 is an event like no other. The truth will out.
> Can't not. Eventually a new citizens grand jury will form, which, as
> this thing picks of more steam, may even get subpeona powers at some
> stage in this high stakes endeavour.
>
> What, you don't want a new investigation into what happened on 9/11?
> Don't the victims families, and all the countless 1000's who'v died
> needlessly in the wake of 9/11 deserve as much?
Yes - if these debunkers actually believed that there was no "inside job"
complicity in 9/11, and that only foreign terrorists were responsible, they
would WELCOME further investigations that would confirm what they allegedly
believe. Why would they oppose independent inquiries if not fearful of what
may be revealed?
Freedom Fighter
news:R9NEf.13347$qg....@news01.roc.ny...
> EagleEye wrote:
>>>People said the same thing in 1963, 1969, and 1986, among others.
>>>They were all wrong.
>>
>>
>> This isn't then and 9/11 is an event like no other. The truth will out.
>> Can't not. Eventually a new citizens grand jury will form, which, as
>> this thing picks of more steam, may even get subpeona powers at some
>> stage in this high stakes endeavour.
>>
>> What, you don't want a new investigation into what happened on 9/11?
>> Don't the victims families, and all the countless 1000's who'v died
>> needlessly in the wake of 9/11 deserve as much?
> I couldn't care care less if a bunch of unqualified yahoos want to conduct
> some pseudo-investigation to search for evidence supporting their
> outlandish claims.
> The victim's families have their answers. Don't ever pretend that you
> represent them.
The victims' families were quickly PAID LARGE SUMS OF MONEY by the
GOVERNMENT to sign away their rights to any further legal action! Smells
funny to me!
MilSpec FuckHead
news:MPG.1e4ecda24...@news.buckeye-express.com:
I agree with this post.
mellstrrr
<snip expected diversionary bullshit>
> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
> international consortium.
>
> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
> and
> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
> John
> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
> senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what
> really
> happened on 9/11.
>
> They have joined with others in common cause as members of "Scholars
> for
> 9/11 Truth" (S9/11T), because they are convinced, based on their own
> research, that the administration has been deceiving the nation about
> critical events in New York and Washington, D.C.
>
> These experts suggest these events may have been orchestrated by
> elements
> within the administration to manipulate Americans into supporting
> policies at
> home and abroad they would never have condoned absent "another Pearl
> Harbor."
>
> They believe that this White House is incapable of investigating itself
> and
> hope the possibility that Congress might hold an unaccountable
> administration
> accountable is not merely naive or wishful thinking.
>
> They are encouraging news services around the world to secure
> scientific
> advice by taking advantage of university resources to verify or to
> falsify
> their discoveries. Extraordinary situations, they believe, require
> extraordinary measures. [...]
>
> Read entire story at:
> http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/1/emw339303.htm
>
> For more of this type of news, see:
> http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs.php
>
MilSpec FuckHead
news:MPG.1e4ed2a8f...@news.buckeye-express.com:
You're one of the best 9/11 truth people we have. Daily, you illustrate
the fact that the government's story is silly, and its supporters
mindless.
Keep up the good work.
Vandar
>>LOL, nice rave there...7 out of 10...
>>
>>Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>>
>>You keep ignoring the question.
>
>
> We do and are now on the case, both in terms of practicing professional
> high rise Structural Engineering, Construction Mgmt, and Building
> Materials Science discplines, as well as Professors from recognized
> Educational Institutions. I spoke to someone who's involved very
> closely with this new group, and that is now a priority, and I will be
> assisting in this regard to some extent.
>
> Thank you for your input BDK and Vandar. Your handlers won't be too
> pleased with you now, as you've just served to significantly add to the
> snowball effect.. ;o)
>
> Vandars comment also, about how this new group of investigative
> scholars for 911 truth does not speak for the victim's family members,
> who he claims are all satisfied with the official story and 9/11
> Commission Report. That too is going to be addressed in due course.
I didn't say all families are satisfied with the "official story", I
said don't ever pretend that you speak for them.
Vandar
Are you claiming that the victim's families are part of some cover up?
mellstrrr
> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> EagleEye wrote:
>>> > Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
>>> > construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
>>> > 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
>>>
>>> You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
>>>
>>> We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
>>> had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
>>>
>>> These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
>>> findings.
>>
>> And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
>> the conspiracy.
In your opinion.
MilSpec FuckHead
news:MPG.1e4ed4b09...@news.buckeye-express.com:
> In article <Xns975FB3F04...@207.14.113.17>, jas...@yahoo.com
> says...
>> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1e4d6b87c...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>>
>> > In article <Xns975F689C6...@207.14.113.17>,
>> > jas...@yahoo.com says...
>> >> BDK <king...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in
>> >> news:MPG.1e4d3e8e1...@news.buckeye-express.com:
>> >>
>> >> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>> >> >
>> >> > You keep ignoring the question.
>> >>
>> >> Any old engineer, who has no idea of the details of this case?
>> >
>> > Any accredited structural engineer, picked at random would probably
>> have
>> > looked at the official version already, besides all the stuff on
>> > both sides is on the net, right??
>>
>> It is. So why bother with him, then?
>
> So you might buy yourself a clue..
Why don't you buy yourself a 2-liter bottle of Coke, and then shove it up
your ass?
>> > Even the "kook" details.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Why? To what end?
>> >
>> > So you can stop the fucking insanity!
>>
>> What insanity? How so?
>
> Well, a kook never knows he's a kook.
Want to spring for a psychological evaluation of me, pussy?
>> > Run the official cause, and your best thermite, controlled demo,
>> > etc past him, and let him tell you his opinion. then pick another
>> > engineer, and let them tell you too.
>>
>> Meanwhile, you already ignore any experts who don't agree with what
>> you believe...
>
> LOL, very few DON'T agree with me.
And how would you know that?
> You're the one claiming that only
> you and your fellow kooks are doing their patriotic duty to expose the
> conspiracy..blah blah blah.
Did I claim that?
Cite?
> For every expert you can come up with, "our side", aka sanity, can
> come up with about 99 more.
Want to try?
>> >> > I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>> >>
>> >> We're all very proud of you.
>> >
>> > Gee thanks, but why won't you do it?
>> >
>> > What are you and your homies scared of?
>>
>> Idiots. I was talking to a very experienced construction
>> worker/welder. He maintained that the WTCs HAD NO CORES.
>
> Why won't you talk to an engineer?
Because I don't know any engineers. The ones who designed the stadium I'm
building fail to impress those of us who're building it, furthermore.
> I know how stupid some construction
> workers are, I went to HS with a few guys who do it for a living now.
> One works in the Nuke industry! Scary as hell.
This guy is much sharper than you are. And knows a hell of a lot more
about structural steel than you ever will.
Making a building collapse with scattered kerosine fires in 45-90 minutes
is laughable.
>> > There's only one thing that can happen to you..
>> >
>> > You'll feel like an idiot, and be out what the engineer charges..
>>
>>
>> So you suggest I pay someone money because some tard on usenet says I
>> should?
>
> You should do it to learn the real story, since you don't seem to be
> understanding it so far, and claim to want to let everyone know what's
> REALLY going on..
How about you pay, and I'll listen to what he has to say?
Sort of putting your money where your mouth is.
>> > Hey, why don't you say you are a "reporter" doing an article about
>> > "alternate 911 theories" and he might do it for free.
>> >
>> > He will laugh at them. Really.
>>
>> So you say.
>>
>
> Just tell them about the thermite. Wait till he's drinking something.
> Shooting stuff out the nose is always fun to see. Then hit him with
> the controlled demo shit, and watch him roll on the floor.
You have an active imagination, don't you?
Vandar
I see a lot of people laughing at it, but no one opposed to it.
Do what you will.
mellstrrr
wrote:
>
>> Professor Steven Jones also conducted a major 9/11 seminar at the Utah
>> State Valley College in Orem.
>> http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/
>>
>> He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by
>> video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study
>> of Ethics.
>
> There are large numbers of <snip ad-hominem attack> out there
Fuck off, toady. There are large numbers of people questioning the
"official government fairy-tale", and all your insults aren't going to
stop them.
> You guys and the
> magical steel.
>
Yeah, that's what we've been saying all along, stupid. One would need
magic to make steel melt before its' actual melting point...
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
Clozapene has been known to treat paranoid schizophrenia.
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
MilSpec FuckHead
news:ds3g6d$567$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>
> Clozapene has been known to treat paranoid schizophrenia.
Monkeys have been known to fly out of my butt.
Stan de SD
> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
> >
> > You keep ignoring the question.
> >
> >
>
> Thank you for your advice and imput. Adding Structural Engineers and
> Construction Mgmt Engineers will soon become one of their top
> priorities. Fetzer and Jones have been too busy lately, making a major
> presentation and being interviewed all over the place, including an
> appearance on Air America.
Like that's a real credible forum - ROTFLMAO!!!
> Thank you for your contribution to the truth movement, as a movement of
> the truth that 9/11 was and could have been nothing other than an
> inside job.
The fact that some nut-cakes flew airplanes loaded with fuel into those
buildings full-throttle had nothing to do with it?
Vandar
> vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote in
> news:ds3g6d$567$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>
>
>>Clozapene has been known to treat paranoid schizophrenia.
>
>
> Monkeys have been known to fly out of my butt.
Doesn't surprise me.
edrh...@hotmail.com
MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in
> news:1139071914.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
> >> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068548.690284.266550
> >> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > barge...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by
> >> >> an international consortium.
> >> >>
> >> >> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished
> >> >> experts and
> >> >> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne
> >> >> Madsen, John
> >> >> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded
> >> >> that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts
> >> >> about what really
> >> >> happened on 9/11.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Who are these people and what are they experts in?
> >>
> >> What is Google.com, and what can it offer you, the person with
> >> questions?
> >
> > It's not my job to look these people up. It's yours to present them
> > and tell us what their creditentials are.
>
> No, asshole, it's not.
Why not?
> > (I always laugh when I hear someone say; "I Googled so-and-so." I
> > Googled myself once, found a professor in Southern California. Googled
> > Mark Lewis once. (A magician on another board) Found ONE reference to
> > him and several references to other "Mark Lewis's" who'd done some odd
> > things!)
>
> Why don't you go Google yourself right now?
oooh, there's that cutting edge wit! Oh wait, no it isn't!
edrh...@hotmail.com
I'm not making a claim. I'm giving you my opinion.
edrh...@hotmail.com
Based on reading far too many threads like this one.
Dogchain
<age...@justicespammail.com> wrote in message
news:ksr9u114nc7a5lt6b...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:30:48 -0500, "Dogchain" <dogc...@r.us.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><age...@justicespammail.com> wrote in message
>>news:20b5u158u893q56a2...@4ax.com...
>>> On 2 Feb 2006 16:38:54 -0800, "EagleEye" <jne...@globalmanagement.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What's he doing for a living these days?
>>>>
>>>>Don't know, but you are obviously referring to the fact that he was
>>>>sumarily fired for questioning the information his employer,
>>>>Underwriters Labs was commissioned to prepare for NIST.
>>>
>>> He was fired for lying.
>>
>>Lying?
>
> From UL:
>
> Paul M. Baker
> Manager, Media Relations
> Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.
> Northbrook, Ill., USA
> (847) 272-8800 ext. 41001
> Cell: (847) 602-2828
> Paul.M.Baker(@)us.ul.com
>
> UL Letter text:
Are you stupid? What did he lie about?
MilSpec FuckHead
$43e576aa$45035f0b$30...@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
WTC 7 was not hit by a plane.
MilSpec FuckHead
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Because my job doesn't involve Usenet at all.
>> > (I always laugh when I hear someone say; "I Googled so-and-so." I
>> > Googled myself once, found a professor in Southern California.
Googled
>> > Mark Lewis once. (A magician on another board) Found ONE reference
to
>> > him and several references to other "Mark Lewis's" who'd done some
odd
>> > things!)
>>
>> Why don't you go Google yourself right now?
>
> oooh, there's that cutting edge wit! Oh wait, no it isn't!
But you're very funny.
MilSpec FuckHead
news:1139133867....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Based on zero real-world incidents.
MilSpec FuckHead
news:1139134114.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
But you can't cite one.
mellstrrr
> mellstrrr wrote:
>> >> And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
>> >> the conspiracy.
>>
>> In your opinion.
>
> Based on reading far too many threads like this one.
Of course it was obviously an 'opinion', thanks for confirming that...
>
>> Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification and publication by an
>> international consortium.
>>
>> Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group of distinguished experts
>> and
>> scholars, including Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
>> John
>> McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von Buelow, have concluded that
>> senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what
>> really
>> happened on 9/11.
>>
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
Representing that what he said was the position of UL for starters.
age...@justicespammail.com
wrote:
>"Stan de SD" <standesd_DI...@covad.net> wrote in news:2ad0b
>$43e576aa$45035f0b$30...@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
>
>>
>> "EagleEye" <jne...@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in message
>> news:1138988990....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> > Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>>> >
>>> > You keep ignoring the question.
>>> >
>>> > I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>>> >
>>> > BDK
>>>
>>> Thank you for your advice and imput. Adding Structural Engineers and
>>> Construction Mgmt Engineers will soon become one of their top
>>> priorities. Fetzer and Jones have been too busy lately, making a major
>>> presentation and being interviewed all over the place, including an
>>> appearance on Air America.
>>
>> Like that's a real credible forum - ROTFLMAO!!!
>>
>>> Thank you for your contribution to the truth movement, as a movement of
>>> the truth that 9/11 was and could have been nothing other than an
>>> inside job.
>>
>> The fact that some nut-cakes flew airplanes loaded with fuel into those
>> buildings full-throttle had nothing to do with it?
>
>WTC 7 was not hit by a plane.
from Paul Thompson "The Terror Timeline" (pp. 441, 466)
After 9:59 am: WTC Building 7 appears damaged
WTC Building 7 appears to have suffered significant damage at some
point after the WTC towers had collapsed, according to firefighters at
the scene. Firefighter Butch Brandies tells other firefighters that
nobody is to go into Building 7 because of creaking and noises coming
out of there. According to Deputy Chief Peter Hayden, there is a bulge
in the southwest corner of the building between floors 10 and 13.
Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, "At the edge of the south
face you could see that it was very heavily damaged." Deputy Chief
Nick Visconti also later recalls recounts, "A big chunk of the lower
floors had been taken out on the Vesey Street side." Captain Chris
Boyle recalls, "On the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20
stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors."
4:30 pm: WTC Building 7 Area is Evacuated
The area around WTC Building 7 is evacuated at this time. New York
fire department chief officers, who have surveyed the building, have
determined it is in danger of collapsing. Several senior firefighters
have described this decision-making process. According to fire chief
Daniel Nigro, "The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the
area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged building
[WTC Building 7]. A number of fire offices and companies assessed the
damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's
integrity was in serious doubt."
From interviews with firemen:
>> "Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
>> Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so
>> long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy
>> body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it.
>> That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were
>> concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were
>> worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing
>> of the towers and the Marriott, so we started PULLING the people back
>> after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the
>> surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were
>> concerned for their safety."
>> "By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned
>> about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was
>> a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty
>> sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a
>> bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put
>> a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse.
>> You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about
>> three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by
>> about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to
>> collapse."
>> "Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted
>> everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people
>> out?
>> Hayden: Yeah, we had to PULL everybody back. It was very difficult. We
>> had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to
>> come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really
>> comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses.
>> We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We PULLED everybody
>> back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon."
edrh...@hotmail.com
MilSpec FuckHead wrote:
> edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in
> news:1139134114.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > mellstrrr wrote:
> >> > edrh...@hotmail.com wrote in news:1139068847.587916.185200
> >> > @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> EagleEye wrote:
> >> >>> > Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in
> >> >>> > the construction business ? They all pretty much have no
> >> >>> > problem with the 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
> >> >>>
> >> >>> We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once
> >> >>> the've had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer
> >> >>> detail.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
> >> >>> findings.
> >> >>
> >> >> And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part
> >> >> of the conspiracy.
> >>
> >> In your opinion.
> >
> > Based on reading far too many threads like this one.
> >
> >
>
> But you can't cite one.
No, I can't. I don't save threads and hoard them onto my hard drive
waiting for the opportunity to bring them back up and wave them in
people's faces. I'm not that anal.
edrh...@hotmail.com
> On 5 Feb 2006 02:08:34 -0800, <edrh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > mellstrrr wrote:
>
> >> >> And those that don't agree with you will be accused of being part of
> >> >> the conspiracy.
> >>
> >> In your opinion.
> >
> > Based on reading far too many threads like this one.
>
> Of course it was obviously an 'opinion', thanks for confirming that...
I'm sitting here willing to be shown that I'm wrong. Show me some case
where some conspiracy buff said; "Gee, you're making sense. I don't
agree with you, but I respect your right to the opinion."
You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath while waiting.
Incidently, those of us who accept the official verdict understand that
the steel didn't melt. It didn't have to. All it had to do was reach a
point where it couldn't hold all that weight over the impact point.
EagleEye
> the steel didn't melt. It didn't have to. All it had to do was reach a
> point where it couldn't hold all that weight over the impact point.
One problem. There was a building beneath that point, which offered
ZERO in the way of any resistence whatsover, which is utterly absurdm
absent the use of explosives to knock out the remaining structure
beneath the collapsing debris wave. The whole building fell at about
the rate of absolute free fall in nothing but air. All government
santioned theories and hypothesis deal only up to the point of collapse
initiation, saying only the the remaining "global collapse" was
automatic and inevitable, which is utter bullshit, and highly
presumptuous, and utterly absurd.
Sky King
wrote:
>> Why don't you want to talk to an engineer??
>>
>> You keep ignoring the question.
>>
>> I HAVE talked to one, and an Architect too!
>>
>> BDK
>
>Thank you for your advice and imput. Adding Structural Engineers and
>Construction Mgmt Engineers will soon become one of their top
>priorities. Fetzer and Jones have been too busy lately, making a major
>presentation and being interviewed all over the place, including an
>appearance on Air America. Word is spreading fast. Soon, the
>professional catagories you are mentioning WILL be represented within
>this snowballing groups of professionals (excluding Mohamed Columbo of
>course - damne they need to drop that guy real fast). This train is
>only just starting to pull out of the station.
LOL. I already wrote Fetzer about Columbo:
----
To: jfe...@d.umn.edu
CC:
Subject: Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:11:04 -0500
Sir,
I note the inclusion of Muhammad Columbo in your group and wonder if you
have done any proper due diligence.
Mr. Columbo has been the laughing stock of usenet for quite awhile, his
paper thoroughly debunked by many lay people, and he never once was able to
defend his thesis, nor answer numerous specific questions noting his lack
of evidence and numerous contradictions, despite months of requests.
I can't imagine what your group was thinking in including him.
Sincerely,
S. King
----
and Fetzer was damn defensive:
"I consider Mr. Columbo to be making a serious effort to sort things out."
That response was after I gave him the link to Columbo's paper and his
posts here, Eagle Eye.
And Fetzer's criteria?
"In the meanwhile, I could not be less interested in censoring or
eliminating members who have opinions that are distinctive or different
from those of other students of the case, including yourself."
I suppose you don't have a clue about the implications of Fetzer's
response, do you, Eagle Eye?
Don't worry, Fetzer doesn't either. His mind is already made up, in spite
of the evidence against him.
>
>You shills will be eating crow soon enough don't you worry or I should
>say be worried.
Muhammad Columbo's qualifications as listed are: "Graduate Engineer
electronics [with] wide industrial experience."
If Fetzer can't get it right - and he's a PhD. - do you think his group is
going to do any different than what all of you 9/11 Deniers do?
So much for "scholars" and "truth".
EagleEye
loon, worse than "iceman".
Btw, have you seen Loose Change 2nd Edition yet?
Sky King
wrote:
>> Are we counting structural engineers, achitects and others in the
>> construction business ? They all pretty much have no problem with the
>> 9/11 scenario and the destruction of the WTC
>
>You speak on their behalf do you? LOL
>
>We'll be finding out soon enough what they really do think once the've
>had the opportunity to take a close look at it, in finer detail.
>
>These types are to be approached and asked to take a look at the
>findings.
Is that why Fetzer and Jones are unable to reute this, Eagle Eye?:
http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
Why don'y you ask them to as I asked Mr. Fetzer? Why don't you ask them to
include it as a dissenting opinion as they promised to do but won't?