Question for the group?
dearhunter
forced backwards, telling me that he was shot from the front, it's physics!
Hit in the front, head goes back, body goes back, it goes in the direction
of the projectile. If I was to punch you in the head, which way would you
head go, same direction as my punch! I can't understand why there is even a
discussion about where the bullet came from, watch the video, it's that
easy for most? You jump, you come down, you trip you fall, get kicked in
the balls, you go down, guys it's pysics, you can't change it! He was, or
should I say, the fatal shot was from the front, watch the video!
lazu...@webtv.net
911, so don't expect much with all the debunkers here, but I do
appreciate your posts..of course JFK was shot from the right
front....it's kinda like saying Babe Ruth was not a good baseball player
to deny it.
Bud
dearhunter wrote:
> What in the world am I missing here?
Much.
> The footage clearly shows his head is
> forced backwards, telling me that he was shot from the front, it's physics!
Are you applying all the applicable laws of physics?
> Hit in the front, head goes back, body goes back, it goes in the direction
> of the projectile. If I was to punch you in the head, which way would you
> head go, same direction as my punch!
Bullets are more akin to having a sword thrust through you than a
punch. A lot of force on a small area.
> I can't understand why there is even a
> discussion about where the bullet came from, watch the video, it's that
> easy for most? You jump, you come down, you trip you fall, get kicked in
> the balls, you go down, guys it's pysics, you can't change it! He was, or
> should I say, the fatal shot was from the front, watch the video!
This is the simplistic "thats all I need to know" attitude that
has garnered conspiracy a majority.
dearhunter
dearhunter
news:1184872779....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
Well Bud, then please prove to me that an object will go against a
projectile. In other words, an object will launch into the direction that
the bullet was traveling. If there is a way that you can show me this,
I'm open minded, until then in the footage I see his head forced
backwards with great speed & force. Now I kindly ask, convince me. I'm
asking with no name calling, no criticism, just plain proof, show me.
Show me a video, show me something, prove to me I'm wrong.
This is the easy task, I'm still waiting for someone to show me or prove
too me that a building can collapse in free fall speed because of fire or
fires that weren't really intense, that's the hard one! So lets start
with the easy one first, thanks for your time.
YoHarvey
Well since Dearhunter has decided to bless this
newsgroup with his stupidity, I thought I'd post a
response from Duncan MacPherson, author of
"Bullet Penetration" and arguably the leading
wound ballistics expert in the world: Dearhunter?
See if you can assimilate any of this.
G: It is common knowledge that, as captured by Abraham Zapruder,
President Kennedy's head and upper torso lurch energetically
immediately following the explosion of his head. Could this movement
have been caused by the directly transferred momentum of a bullet?
That is, can a bullet "push" somebody like that?
MacP: No, and no. The movement of a body due to bullet momentum cannot
be greater than the movement of the same body if it was holding the
gun that fired the bullet. This is a result of elementary physics and
is not disputed by anyone who understands physics. The major
frustrating feature of the Kennedy assassination phenomenon is the
willingness of people to pretend to talk authoritatively on subjects
they know absolutely nothing about, especially things related to
firearms. This body recoil is one favorite. Another is the "puff of
smoke from the grassy knoll"; the theory here seems to be that someone
shot Kennedy with a flintlock (modern firearms don't make a puff of
smoke on firing as black powder rounds do).
G: If the effects observed on the Zapruder film are not the result of
a direct "push" by a bullet, what could account for JFK's movements?
MacP: In general, body movement in response to nervous system trauma
is a result of contractions in body muscles. This is related to
movements of your leg when a doctor raps you on the knee with his
little mallet; your leg moves because a nerve induces a muscle
contraction, not because it was driven into motion by the force of the
tiny rap with the mallet. The slightly peculiar location of Kennedy's
arms after the 399 bullet impact is known as Thorburn's position,
after a description by Dr. William Thorburn in an 1889 paper on
injuries to the area of the spinal chord damaged by bullet 399. In
addition to this effect, simulations have shown that bullet strikes to
the skull that result in blowing out a significant hole upon exit
result in skull recoil towards the bullet entry direction. The
dynamics of this are a little complicated, but are more related to the
pressure inside the skull cavity created by the bullet passage than to
effects directly related to the bullet movement. The dynamics of this
kind of impact were demonstrated independently in testing by Dr. Luis
Alvarez and by Dr. John K. Lattimer et al.
G: Have you had a chance to review the JFK-related wound ballistics
work of Drs. John Lattimer and Martin Fackler? If so, can you provide
a brief critique?
MacP: I have read this work and have referred to it to look up
Thorburn's name in the previous answer. The main aspect of the Kennedy
assassination that would surprise most people is how uncontroversial
the wound ballistics aspects are among the physicians in the country
who are most experienced in gunshot trauma (I am not one of these, but
have talked to several). It is a sad truth that most autopsy reports
are full of errors and inconsistencies which are obvious to any
careful review; it shouldn't be like this, but it is. The problems
with the Kennedy autopsy do not require a conspiracy to explain, they
are more or less business as usual exposed to the glare of careful
examination. Likewise, the work of Lattimer and Fackler is simply a
very sound, complete, and careful examination and reconstruction of
that facts that should be the standard in all cases, but isn't.
Some argument can be made in the typical investigation that the talent
and resources just are not available to meet a first class standard,
but one can hardly argue that this situation is applicable to the
Warren report. The Warren commission should have used all of the best
talent available to make the most complete analysis possible, but they
didn't. In fairness, it is always easier to criticize than to
perform.
G: Is it possible to deform a bullet the way CE399 is deformed by
firing the bullet into water?
MacP: Probably not. Bullet 399 really isn't deformed much; a point
often made by those who dispute the "single bullet" conclusion. The
bullets used in this assassination are much more resistant to
deformation than most rifle bullets. The major effect in bullet 399 is
"toothpasting", i.e., a small amount of the lead core has been
squeezed out of the jacket base like toothpaste from a tube. This
probably occurred when the bullet hit Connally's ribs at a high yaw
angle after it had been considerably slowed by travel through soft
tissue (a bullet in a reconstructed firing showed deformation similar
to and slightly larger than bullet 399). The bullet would yaw in
water, but probably would not "toothpaste" without contact with a hard
object.
G: Is the deformation of CE399 inconsistent with its having caused all
of JFK's and JBC's non-fatal wounds?
MacP: No. Reconstructions prove that bullet 399 is consistent with
having caused all these wounds.
G: Are you aware of the claim that CE399 was "switched" from a six-
groove bullet to a four-groove bullet? If so, will you give us your
professional opinion?
MacP: No knowledge about this claim. For about 30 years, I have paid
almost no attention to any aspect of the Kennedy assassination not
directly related to wound ballistics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And there you have it. One more scientist who has done original wound
ballistics work who agrees with all the other wound ballistics
scientists with any knowledge of the JFK case: the popular opinions
regarding the movements of JFK's head and upper torso following z-313
and the condition of CE399 are not at all inconsistent with the
conclusion that all of Kennedy's and Connally's wounds were caused by
shots fired from behind the limousine.
It is stuff like this that convinces me that, long after the emotional
partisanship fades away, history's verdict will be that Lee Harvey
Oswald is the villain of this piece.
dearhunter
news:1184885970.0...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> --------- And there you have it. One more scientist who has done
> original wound ballistics work who agrees with all the other wound
> ballistics scientists with any knowledge of the JFK case: the popular
> opinions regarding the movements of JFK's head and upper torso
> following z-313 and the condition of CE399 are not at all inconsistent
> with the conclusion that all of Kennedy's and Connally's wounds were
> caused by shots fired from behind the limousine.
> It is stuff like this that convinces me that, long after the emotional
> partisanship fades away, history's verdict will be that Lee Harvey
> Oswald is the villain of this piece.
>
>
>
MacP: No, and no. The movement of a body due to bullet momentum cannot
be greater than the movement of the same body if it was holding the
gun that fired the bullet
Sorry, I have to disagree with this, because, the guy holding the gun is
braced, he knows as soon as he pulls the triger that the gun will recoil,
so he's braced he's prepared, he's ready. The rifle is against his
shoulder, he's braced. The target dosen't know this, the target is relaxed.
Your comparing a person holding a rifle, braced against the shoulder, feet
are positioned, he's ready. Now, his target is against a person that just
got shot in the throat and isn't (probably) expecting a blow to the head,
he's not braced, he's weak, at this point in time the poor guy is still
trying to figure out what just happened. If it was at all possible, I would
like to see someone fire a rifle just using their head, no arms, not
braced. I know this is impossible, but if it were possible, guaranteed
their head movement would be the same as JFKs. In short, mount the gun to
anybodys head and have a remote pull the triger, you can bet your ass their
head is going to kick back away from the direction of the bullet when the
shot is fired.
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Deerhunter,
Go to youtube and watch the z film in slow motion. JFK's head does go
forward and then back as his head explodes. I just watched it on 4
different versions of the video.
Also, search for execution videos and see for yourself the different
movements that happen with each shot. No one can assume what movement
will take place from a head shot.
Now, you can be like Chico and only display the links of the execution
videos that fit his agenda or you can be open minded like you said and
watch a variety of them on your own.
It won't take much to convince you that JFK was hit from behind if you
know what your looking for.
justme
lazu...@webtv.net
snap, always bring up that virtually indistinguishable "violent forward
motion of the head" at 312. Well, this effect, if it exists at all,
could very well be the result of a double headshot, first from the rear,
then from the right front. In both instances, the laws of physics are
then not abandoned willy-nilly, but the effects are entirely consistent
with the law of transfer of momentum.-----Old Laz, who believes in
reason and science, not fantasy and faith.
Kenneth A. Rahn
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184893420.8...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Deerhunter,
> Go to youtube and watch the z film in slow motion. JFK's head does go
> forward and then back as his head explodes. I just watched it on 4
> different versions of the video.
> Also, search for execution videos and see for yourself the different
> movements that happen with each shot. No one can assume what movement
> will take place from a head shot.
> Now, you can be like Chico and only display the links of the execution
> videos that fit his agenda or you can be open minded like you said and
> watch a variety of them on your own.
> It won't take much to convince you that JFK was hit from behind if you
> know what your looking for.
> justme
And that quick forward motion is one of the big keys to the assassination.
Some years ago, I did an interesting experiment. I went back and read all
the JFK books (mostly conspiracy, or course),and noted what they said about
the head shot. Up until about 1980 or so (if I remember right), most writers
recognized the forward motion, even if they didn't get its significance.
Then after that, the forward motion "disappeared." So we have actually
regressed.
Ken Rahn
Kenneth A. Rahn
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184893420.8...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Deerhunter,
> Go to youtube and watch the z film in slow motion. JFK's head does go
> forward and then back as his head explodes. I just watched it on 4
> different versions of the video.
> Also, search for execution videos and see for yourself the different
> movements that happen with each shot. No one can assume what movement
> will take place from a head shot.
> Now, you can be like Chico and only display the links of the execution
> videos that fit his agenda or you can be open minded like you said and
> watch a variety of them on your own.
> It won't take much to convince you that JFK was hit from behind if you
> know what your looking for.
> justme
I suspect that the "disappearance" of the forward motion coincided with the
increasing availability of the Zapruder film. Once everyone could see the
"back and to the left" with their own eyes, it made such an impression on
them that the forward motion seemed negligible. That was totally wrong, of
course, but few of them understood (and understand) physics and ballistics.
Ken Rahn
YoHarvey
> Justme,
>
> <justme1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The nutters, in trying to deflect discussion away from the rearward
Once again a kook dismisses ALL the evidence of ONLY
two shots, both from the rear. He claims to believe in
science but disputes what 17 renowed forensic pahtologists
from the WC, HSCA, Clark Panel and Rockefeller Commission
ALL agreed on. Two shots, from behind. Period.
justm...@gmail.com
Ken,
I'll be the first to admit I never noticed the forward motion before.
But tonight I looked for only that while watching atleast 10 different
versions of the z film from people on youtube. In each one, I could
see the head move forward very quickly and then shoot back. You are
correct in saying the back and to the left took over...and that is no
surprise when someone is looking for conspiracy.
I hope deerhunter took my advice and looked closely for himself. When
you're watching for it to happen you can't miss it.
Justme
tomnln
Yo(Momma)Harvey especially, who Never addresses evidence/testimony>>>
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/RACE%20TO%20TSBD.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/single_bullet.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/media_page.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/orders_of_silence.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/tramps.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/altering_evidence.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/altgens.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/gil_jesus_page.htm
WHO is Yo(Momma)Harvey?>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/baileynme.htm
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184885970.0...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
The 12 Years that the bZapruder Film was Hidden from the public.
During that 12 Years we were told that "The Head Goes Forward With
Considerable Violence"
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184893420.8...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
In any matters of Importance, don't take Anyone's word for anything.
read the evidence/testimony for yourself in the 26 volumes.
View the Zapruder film frame by frame for yourself.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/film/Zapruderstable.mov
That is the clearest copy of the Z film ever released.
It Starts in Motion.
When you hit your space bar it stops.
In the Stop position you can go forward/backward 1 frame at a time by using
your arrow keys.
ALSO;
That's the difference between Winners/Losers.
A Loser wants to address ONLY those who already Agree with him.
(because his position is NOT defensible)
A Winner addresses his adversaries to discuss evidence/testimony.
(because his position IS defensible)
I have a Live Audio Chat Room on www.paltalk.com
Download & Use for FREE.
Once Logged on select Rooms, Social Issues & Politics.
Then select Government & Politics.
Scroll down to room called "Who Killed John F. Kennedy?"
I start between 8-9 pm e.s.t. EVERY NITE.
We can transfer files to one another Instantly.
ANY Exhibits of Evidence, ANY Testimony from WC/HSCA Volumes.
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184896683.6...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Bud
Yet needs to invent shots front and rear a sixteenth of a second
apart to keep his fantasy alive.
David Von Pein
And which is a scenario that is not supported by a single autopsy
photo or X-rays or autopsist or Parkland witness (none of whom saw TWO
large exit wounds, which would have existed via Laz's guesswork) or
post-Z313 Z-Film frames or common sense (the latter suggests that such
a double-head-shot scenario would result if some damage to the LEFT
SIDE of JFK's head from the Knoll shot).
But, at least Ol' Laz believes in "reason and science, not fantasy and
faith".
Could have fooled me, ol' Lazuli.
tomnln
Seems like David Missed that one.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184960664.5...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
systematically destroys in his 2007 JFK book is Doug Horne's "Two
Brains" hunk of nonsense.
A sample:
"My God. RFK somehow finds out that Humes and Boswell, as part of an
apparent conspiracy to cover up the assassination of his brother, used
a brain other than his brother's to conduct their examination. So he
{RFK} goes out and finds, seizes, and then gets rid of his brother's
substitute brain {instead of taking the proper action to prosecute
these criminal autopsists to the fullest extent of the law}. Is there
any end to this silliness?" -- VB; Page 443 of "RH"
BTW, the "second brain" that Horne thinks was examined by Humes and
Co. was, per Horne, a brain that was way too big to have been JFK's
damaged brain.
So, just like all other crazy plots, evidently this "Double Brain"
charade was being carried out by total morons who couldn't even
simulate the size of Kennedy's real brain correctly. But, who's gonna
notice that, right? (Only Mr. Horne evidently.)
The goofball plotters who messed with JFK's brain must have been the
same ones who orchestrated the Jim Garrison/Oliver Stone-endorsed
theory that has several gunmen firing at President Kennedy in Dealey
Plaza within the PRE-ARRANGED context of a "Let's Frame Lee Oswald As
Our Lone Patsy" assassination scheme.
Speaking of brains...it appears perhaps that the "second brain" that
Horne thinks was substituted for JFK's probably belonged to one of
those conspirators that CTers seem to think existed in 1963. Because
I'm nearly positive somebody on that Conspiracy Team has lost theirs.
=======================================
CS&L in large doses........
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=213800607&blogID=287875907
=======================================
com...@webtv.net
kennedy has already ben shot in the throat and cannot breathe, he slumos
over, his wife tries to hlp him,THEN he gets shot in the head ! and yes,
it was in his right front forehead where the second shot hit..and
remember connely got two chest wounds, a thigh wound a wrist wound. one
bullet was imbedded in the car.another one hit the curb and cut a
bystander. some people now saw if there was o one in the "grassy knoll,
perhaps they were hiding in the street sewer? that sewer location would
have given them a clean shot at kennedy's face.
" YOU ARE EITHER WITH US, OR AGAINST US "
com...@webtv.net
the zapruder film in slow motion. it is obvious the bastards were lying.
com...@webtv.net
watch the zapruder film in slow motion with the sound turned off so that
THEY cannot fool your mind.. he was shot in the throat,his elbows go up.
he cannot breathe. he slumps over his wife tries to help him...., THEN
he gets shot again in the head....we are looking at a major cold case
crime yet to b solved here.
com...@webtv.net
remastered magruder footage, rent and old VHS of the docu-drama" the
man who saw tomorrow"......you will see no forward head movement in the
old version except his head was falling foreward from the first shot as
he was hit by the second shot;;;OOPS, the warren commsion members who
are still alive still claim kennedy was ony hit by one shot ! LIARS !
Sam Brown
<com...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17432-46A...@storefull-3175.bay.webtv.net...
> and also, read the warren commision report before and after you watch
> the zapruder film in slow motion. it is obvious the bastards were lying.
>
> " YOU ARE EITHER WITH US, OR AGAINST US "
Um, I'm against. And?
>
>
Bud
You need to read his posts with your eyes shut to get the full
effect, Sam.
> >
> >