Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 5)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From July 2003, December
2004, June 2005, and November 2005.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- The autopsy report was "adjusted" to
fit the scenario of only one shooter firing from the TSBD even though
NUMEROUS witnesses (not the 5% DVP claims) stated otherwise.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- You'd better read my "5%" comment again. You've
misstated it (on purpose??). I never said that "5%" of the witnesses
heard shots from non-Depository locations.
What I said was -- quote -- "Did the conspirators also just "luck out"
when very, very few witnesses (less than 5% total) said that they heard
shots coming FROM MORE THAN ONE DIRECTION? (And the vast majority of
these witnesses heard shots from BEHIND the President's car, from the
direction of the School Book Depository.)" -- DVP
That extremely low percentage of witnesses claiming they heard shots
from more than just one location is a very telling figure. I'd ask --
What are the odds of (approx.) 95% of all Dealey Plaza witnesses (who
gave an opinion on the matter) hearing shots from only ONE single
location in DP (whether it be a rear or a frontal locale) and there
still actually having been BOTH rear and frontal shooters located
throughout the Plaza?
Virtually none of the witnesses who provided an opinion as to the
source of the gunshots said they heard shots from BOTH the rear and the
front. They almost ALL said either one location or the other. A very
telling stat, IMO. And a stat that does not favor "conspiracy", because
even conspiracy buffs agree that some shots came from the Depository.
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CTer -- In addition, you're telling us that Oswald fires his rifle in
Dealey Plaza with world-class speed and precision but can't hit Walker
standing still just yards away.
DVP -- My point on the Walker v. Kennedy thing is just this: It is NOT
possible to eliminate Oswald as a suspect in the JFK killing SOLELY
BASED ON HIS MISS OF WALKER! It's illogical to do so.
Why would anyone place this blanket assumption over Oswald regarding
these two shootings...or ANY two shootings?! He might very well have
never hit his target with a rifle in his life and might still have
performed the deed in Dallas. Who knows? But to claim that he couldn't
possibly have accomplished the Dallas shooting based on the Walker miss
(or ANY other shooting attempt) is crazy.
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CTer -- Mr. Von Pein is assuming that Oswald killed Tippit.
DVP -- Darn right I assume that. Nothing could be more obvious in this
whole case in fact. Is it your contention that Oswald was not even at
the scene of Officer J.D. Tippit's murder? If so, is it just a mere
coincidence that we have Oswald fleeing into the nearby Texas Theater
just minutes later?
For, if Lee Oswald did NOT shoot Tippit, we then must assume that he
just happened to be walking in the neighborhood of the slaying, and
then, even though he DIDN'T kill the officer, is seen acting
suspiciously as he loiters in the entrance of the Hardy's Shoe Store
and is observed by Johnny Brewer entering the theater without buying a
ticket.
Oswald certainly acted like he'd just committed a crime of some ilk,
didn't he? Was he just being cooperative, in order to be "set up" more
conveniently?
Eyewitness testimony PLUS Oswald's just BEING IN THIS AREA IMMEDIATELY
AFTER THE TIPPIT KILLING is certainly hard evidence to overlook,
wouldn't you agree?
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CTer -- The evidence that Oswald shot Tippit is weak.
DVP -- Forgive my bluntness....but you're nuts! After assessing the
facts in the Tippit case, anyone who states this blatant falsehood --
"The evidence that Oswald shot Tippit is weak" -- is a person who does
not deserve a solitary bit of respect and is a person who obviously
WANTS to have Oswald innocent of killing Officer J.D. Tippit (no matter
how much evidence exists to say he was guilty).
And that same person who can arrogantly and falsely claim "The evidence
that Oswald shot Tippit is weak" is more than likely a person who is so
buried in "conspiracy" thoughts that no amount of common sense and
logical thinking will be able to pull the CT blinders off of that
person's eyes.
And I'm still stumped (and always will be I guess) as to the question
of why no conspiracy theorist can manage to evaluate anything regarding
the assassination from a PRE-November 22 standpoint (in order to see
the general mayhem and illogic and downright silliness that the
widely-accepted-as-true "Oswald Was A Patsy" plot would have created).
Any assassins who would have NEEDED only Oswald fingered for the TWO
murders on 11/22/63 must have all (to a man!) been under the influence
of large quantities of hallucinogenic drugs when they decided to place
many shooters in Dealey Plaza (and on 10th Street for Tippit's killing,
as many CTers advocate).
And these powerful drugs must have also had some crazy type of
"Miracles Are Possible" effect on all of the shooters and the assorted
behind-the-scenes schemers and henchmen who worked on the plot in their
Conspiracy BatCave. Because only a miracle of the highest order could
have rescued such a cuckoo multi-shooter "Patsy" plan from certain
failure on November 22, 1963.
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CTer -- Oswald was fleeing into the theater? Why didn't he flee into
Brewer's store? He was already there, wasn't he?
DVP -- If you were on the run from having just committed a murder in
front of several eyewitnesses and had a choice of hiding in a well-lit
shoe shoppe or a nice, darkened movie theater....which would you
choose? Not a very difficult decision, is it?
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CTer -- This is a man {Oswald} who you contend killed the President
with no surefire means of escape, gets on a bus, then in a taxi, goes
home, gets his pistol, runs a mile in 4 minutes, shoots and kills a
police officer, then does everything he can to draw attention to
himself by first ducking into a shoe store and then a movie theater
witout paying. Is this your scenario?
DVP -- Well. Pert near. Except for the part about Oswald doing
everything he can to draw attention to himself and running a
four-minute mile. He had more than four minutes to travel the 0.85 of a
mile from his roominghouse on Beckley Avenue to the scene of Tippit's
murder on Tenth Street. Oswald left his roominghouse at approx. 1:03,
and Tippit was killed at approx. 1:14. He, therefore, had about 11
minutes (give or take) to get there. It could easily be traversed in
that amount of time.
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CTer -- If he {Oswald} were guilty of killing the President and
hell-bent on escaping, why didn't he call a cab from his rooming house?
A cab got him safely out of Dealey Plaza, didn't it?
DVP -- This taxi cab suggestion seems kinda nutty. I'm a murderer. I
certainly don't want to hang around my lodgings very long, where the
authorities will no doubt be showing up before too long since I had no
choice (due to obvious time restraints placed upon my murdering little
shoulders) and had to ditch the assembled rifle on the sixth floor,
from where the police will easily trace it back to me. So I'm certainly
not going to hang around the front stoop of my home address waiting for
a cab to get there.
Instead, I'm going to start hoofin' it....which is just what Oswald did
(at a fairly brisk pace, which shouldn't be too surprising to anyone).
If Lee Harvey Oswald was not guilty, then it's a fairly safe bet that
John F. Kennedy and J.D. Tippit were not killed at all on November
22nd, 1963. (They must both be in hiding at Roswell or something.)
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CTer -- So I take it that you do not agree with the official version
that Oswald planned this murder well in advance as {Dallas D.A. Henry}
Wade had stated to the press.
DVP -- Well, if Mr. Wade's idea of "well in advance" is no longer than
three to six days (and probably closer to one or two) -- then I'd agree
with him. Otherwise, I'd disagree vigorously with the "well in advance"
statement.
But there's no way Oswald's "plan" to shoot the President from his
workplace could possibly have exceeded six days; and, as I said,
probably three days or less is more likely.
This 3-to-6-day timeline, of course, is due to when he could have known
for certain the following information:
1.) If there would be any motorcade through the Dallas streets at all.
2.) What route would be finalized for any such motorcade.
3.) What specific time on November 22 any such motorcade would pass
through Dallas.
None of the above three points could have been known by Oswald until
Saturday, November 16, 1963, at the earliest (which is the date the
Dallas newspapers published information about JFK's impending visit and
motorcade drive through the city, sans exact routing).
The finalized route was published in the two Dallas papers on Tuesday,
November 19th. So that's the earliest date when Oswald could have known
for certain if he'd have a chance at shooting at the President from his
working establishment -- and not a day before.
He could have GUESSED that a motorcade passing the TSBD on "Main
Street" might occur (as it said in the 11/16 editions of the Dallas
papers); but his plan couldn't have included any full knowledge of the
final routing until 11/19/63. So that's just three (to six) total days
when he could have "planned" anything in detail.
In fact, even the Dallas Police Dept. and the press at large didn't
know about the Dallas trip (much less the final motorcade routing)
until mid-November, when Pierre Salinger announced the President's
Florida and Texas trips to the press).
So, I guess it depends on one's definition of "well in advance". To me,
three days or six days isn't "well in advance".
Plus, let me state that I personally believe that Oswald hatched his
murder plan on either Wednesday, November 20th or Thursday, November
21st (A.M.), which is when (Thursday morning that is) he asked Wesley
Frazier for the unusual weekday ride to Irving for the first time since
his TSBD employment began on October 16th.
If he had planned it too much earlier, it's very likely (IMO) that he
would have removed his rifle from Ruth Paine's garage at an earlier
date, rather than his last-day rifle-retrieving efforts at the Paine
home the night before he shot the President.
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CTer -- I just can't, after 40 years, see how your hero, Mr. {Vincent}
Bugliosi, will find anything new. He will just put a different slant on
what already exists.
DVP (December 20, 2004) -- You might very well be correct in this
regard. But the difference is: Mr. Bugliosi himself, and the logic he
applies to every single aspect of every case he's involved in. And the
JFK case will certainly be no exception. In fact, his research will be
FAR GREATER than that of a "current" case that he has a deadline for.
It's hard to begin to imagine the thoughtfulness, preparation, logic,
and investigation that he's put into a 20-plus-years-in-the-making
project like his book on the JFK assassination case. I think perhaps
the two words that might best describe Vincent Bugliosi's JFK book will
be "Staggeringly Complete".