JFK's Limousine (June 1961)

[David Von Pein]

http://Kennedy-Photos.blogspot.com/#SS-100-X

[mainframetech]

On Apr 2, 1:56 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://Kennedy-Photos.blogspot.com/#SS-100-X

Did you show all the extra bullet strikes and fragments from the many
shooters?

Chris

[bigdog]

On Apr 2, 1:56 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://Kennedy-Photos.blogspot.com/#SS-100-X

Great collection of photos. One thing that caught my eye was the Ft.
Worth motorcade in which JFK rode in a regular Lincoln convertible,
presumably because the stretch Presidential limo had already been sent
on to Dallas. Obviously, that car didn't have the running boards or
the hand grabs on the rear to allow SS agents to ride along, but it is
still indicative of the thinking that it was not essential to have
agents riding on the same vehicle as the President. Had that been a
concern, they would have had the Presidential limo for that motorcade
and then flown it to Love Field. I'm guessing because of the tight
schedule, they didn't want a delay at Love while the limo was unloaded
so used a substitute for the Ft. Worth motorcade.

[David Von Pein]

Bigdog,

Good point about the Fort Worth limo. I guess CTers like Palamara must
think that agents should have literally run alongside JFK's regular
Lincoln in Fort Worth during the entire drive to Carswell, because the
agents certainly couldn't "ride the bumpers" of that car.


>>> "Great collection of photos." <<<

Thanks. And I've got many more coming to my Kennedy gallery, via a
great resource at the JFK Library website. They've got more than 8,400
pictures relating to JFK there, covering almost every single day of
his Presidency. And I'm only halfway through them (in selecting the
best ones to put on my photo site). :-)

[mainframetech]

It's useful to look through Palamara's site at the pictures of the
limo with JFK aboard. I did, and it turns out that the SS agents were
on the running boards or running alongside many, many times and
missing from those positions in only a few of them. Riding the bumper
was considerd a necessary safety step and the SS agents were nonplused
whern they were told to stand down and ride in the SS car following.
Check the proof in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

And to answer those that think that JFK was difficult to watch and
ordered them away from the limo, I looked into that and many agents
stated JFK was easy to watch and gave no such orders.

Chris

[aeffects]

bet ya gotta a woody, eh? you are one strange dude, David creepo' Von
Pein...

[David Von Pein]

>>> "And to answer those that think that JFK was difficult to watch and ordered them away from the limo, I looked into that and many agents stated JFK was easy to watch and gave no such orders." <<<

Doesn't matter what JFK may or may not have told the SS. The proof
that people like Palamara are nuts regarding the SS protection given
President Kennedy is in the many photos which prove that the SS agents
did not always ride the bumpers of Kennedy's limo, nor were there
always motorcycles riding directly next to JFK's car in many
motorcades (see photos in post linked below).

Palamara, of course, totally ignores these facts which prove that
11/22/63 was no different from many other pre-11/22 motorcades when it
comes to the subject of Secret Service protection.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html

[mainframetech]

Poor DVP. Doesn't listen before squawking. If you have a look at
Palamara's site you will see the VAST majority of the pictures show
the SS agents riding the little platforms at the back, or running
alongside. The point being that it was far more normal to be doing
that, and that explains why the agents were nonplused when on the day
of the assassination they were ordered off post and back into the
following SS car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

Are you able to discuss the video above and the obvious effect the
orders had on the agents?

Here is a list of things done of a similar nature on Assassination
day:
http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html

And for those that try to escape by smearing Palamara, he gave an
excellent rebuttal to the idiots that tried that ploy:
http://vincepalamara.blogspot.com/

Chris

[David Von Pein]

>>> "If you have a look at Palamara's site you will see the VAST majority of the pictures show the SS agents riding the little platforms at the back, or running alongside." <<<

Of course. Palamara obviously wasn't going to show anybody the six
pictures I've posted on the webpage below, which are pictures that
prove he is wrong about the agents always riding the bumpers. (Duh.)

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html

[bigdog]

On Apr 3, 7:39 am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 2, 7:03 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> "And to answer those that think that JFK was difficult to watch and ordered them away from the limo, I looked into that and many agents stated JFK was easy to watch and gave no such orders." <<<
>
> > Doesn't matter what JFK may or may not have told the SS. The proof
> > that people like Palamara are nuts regarding the SS protection given
> > President Kennedy is in the many photos which prove that the SS agents
> > did not always ride the bumpers of Kennedy's limo, nor were there
> > always motorcycles riding directly next to JFK's car in many
> > motorcades (see photos in post linked below).
>
> > Palamara, of course, totally ignores these facts which prove that
> > 11/22/63 was no different from many other pre-11/22 motorcades when it
> > comes to the subject of Secret Service protection.
>
> >http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html
>
>   Poor DVP.  Doesn't listen before squawking.  If you have a look at
> Palamara's site you will see the VAST majority of the pictures show
> the SS agents riding the little platforms at the back, or running
> alongside.  The point being that it was far more normal to be doing
> that, and that explains why the agents were nonplused when on the day
> of the assassination they were ordered off post and back into the

> following SS car.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

>
>    Are you able to discuss the video above and the obvious effect the
> orders had on the agents?
>
>   Here is a list of things done of a similar nature on Assassination
> day:http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html
>
>    And for those that try to escape by smearing Palamara, he gave an
> excellent rebuttal to the idiots that tried that ploy:http://vincepalamara.blogspot.com/
>
> Chris

The point is that sometimes the agents rode the bumper and sometimes
they didn't. It was decided on a case by case basis. For the agents
not to be on the bumper in Dallas was not unique. They were absent
from the bumper on numerous occasions before and nothing happened. No
one could have known LHO was laying in wait in the TSBD.

[mainframetech]

DVP doesn't get it. Fell for the setup again...:) David, the count
of pictures on the Palamara site was 30. The count of 6 is peanuts to
that. However, you forgot to reply for the comments of the Secret
Service agents that were quoted about JFK being easy to work with and
not giving orders about staying away from the limo. You can run, but
it will always catch you...:)

Chris

[David Von Pein]

Thick-headed Chris is the one who doesn't "get it". Just having ONE
picture showing JFK's limo not surrounded by motorcycles and not
having SS men on the bumpers would be enough to defeat Palamara's
silly notion that SS agents always rode JFK's bumpers as part of their
regular course of duty while protecting President Kennedy.

And even if some SS procedures were violated during the motorcades
where spectators were hanging out of windows and the SS agents weren't
always on the bumpers--so what? All that means is that those
procedures were not religiously adhered to during MANY motorcades,
including motorcades when JFK was not being shot and killed by rifle
fire.

Take another thick pill, Chris. You seem to have a lot of those in the
medicine chest.

[mainframetech]

Poor Davey, drooled before squawking again. Dave ol' boy, There
are bound to be times when the SS agents couldn't maintain their
positions at the limo, but that's all planned ahead of time. To have
a superior order a standdown just before the Assassination might be
considered a bit suspicious, eh? It's clear from the video that the
agent ordered off his detail is nonplused and doesn't understand why
the order to get away from the president was issued at the last moment
before they took off for the 'parade'. Don't forget the video. It's
clear what's happening in it.

And on your earlier comment, Palamara didn't swear the agents were
always there as far as I know, if you different, show it. Remember,
Palamara has the word of many agents as to how things went and how tey
did their job with JFK.

If the agents were right and JFK never ordered the SS agents away
from the limo, what's the excuse for the superior ordering his agents
away from their crucial positions that protected JRK from a shot from
behind?

You can try to go round and round on this, and you know where it's
going to end up...:)

Chris

[bigdog]

On Apr 4, 6:53 am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 3, 6:32 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Thick-headed Chris is the one who doesn't "get it". Just having ONE
> > picture showing JFK's limo not surrounded by motorcycles and not
> > having SS men on the bumpers would be enough to defeat Palamara's
> > silly notion that SS agents always rode JFK's bumpers as part of their
> > regular course of duty while protecting President Kennedy.
>
> > And even if some SS procedures were violated during the motorcades
> > where spectators were hanging out of windows and the SS agents weren't
> > always on the bumpers--so what? All that means is that those
> > procedures were not religiously adhered to during MANY motorcades,
> > including motorcades when JFK was not being shot and killed by rifle
> > fire.
>
> > Take another thick pill, Chris. You seem to have a lot of those in the
> > medicine chest.
>
>    Poor Davey, drooled before squawking again.  Dave ol' boy, There
> are bound to be times when the SS agents couldn't maintain their
> positions at the limo, but that's all planned ahead of time.  To have
> a superior order a standdown just before the Assassination might be
> considered a bit suspicious, eh?  It's clear from the video that the
> agent ordered off his detail is nonplused and doesn't understand why
> the order to get away from the president was issued at the last moment
> before they took off for the 'parade'.  Don't forget the video.  It's
> clear what's happening in it.

It might be suspiscious if that had never been done before. The
photographic record tells us that numerous times in the past, agents
did not ride on the bumper or the running boards and without incident.
The same decision was made in Dallas. The confusion of the one agent
indicates nothing except that he hadn't gotten the message that the
decision was made not to have agents ride the lead limo. If anything,
it is more indicative that there was nothing sinister about the
decision. If somebody wanted to make sure no agents would be in
position to protect JFK, they would have made the order clear ahead of
time.

>
>   And on your earlier comment, Palamara didn't swear the agents were
> always there as far as I know, if you different, show it.  Remember,
> Palamara has the word of many agents as to how things went and how tey
> did their job with JFK.

Unfortunately, all we have is Palmara's word for that.

>
>    If the agents were right and JFK never ordered the SS agents away
> from the limo, what's the excuse for the superior ordering his agents
> away from their crucial positions that protected JRK from a shot from
> behind?
>

It wouldn't have to be a formal order. He could let his displeasure
with having them hover without ordering them to stay away. That would
be his way of telling them to not be close to him if they didn't think
it was necessary. That would leave it to their judgement.

[mainframetech]

bigdog,
So you have taken over for the misguided DVP? Just about everything
you just said above is off the cuff. Not one bit of backup. Can't go
with any of that. Being in the contingent that doesn't want to
believe that there were multiple shooters and orders from high up, I
can easily see why you would want to say what you did.

Using the word 'numerous' doesn't properly express 6 pictures of
agents not running alongside or on the platforms made for them. Not
when you're matching it with 30 pictures of agents doing what they're
supposed to.

Most of the SS agents have stated that JFK was no problem to guard,
and never told agents to stay away from the limo. If JFK had issued
such orders, no one woud be photographed in those positions of
platform or running alongside. That there might have been
extenuating circumstances occasionally seems possible, but not
planning everything and then at the last minute as everything is about
to get underway, a superior orders the 2 protectors to stand down.
It's obvious that the agent in the video did not want to stand down,
and didn't understand why he was told to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

In this next video you can hear the voice of Floyd Boring, a secret
service agent say during a phone conversation with Palamara that it
wasn't true that JFK ordered any of them away from the limo. Look
around minute 09:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf1StSdXqyg

Chris

[Bud]

On Apr 4, 6:53 am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 3, 6:32 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Thick-headed Chris is the one who doesn't "get it". Just having ONE
> > picture showing JFK's limo not surrounded by motorcycles and not
> > having SS men on the bumpers would be enough to defeat Palamara's
> > silly notion that SS agents always rode JFK's bumpers as part of their
> > regular course of duty while protecting President Kennedy.
>
> > And even if some SS procedures were violated during the motorcades
> > where spectators were hanging out of windows and the SS agents weren't
> > always on the bumpers--so what? All that means is that those
> > procedures were not religiously adhered to during MANY motorcades,
> > including motorcades when JFK was not being shot and killed by rifle
> > fire.
>
> > Take another thick pill, Chris. You seem to have a lot of those in the
> > medicine chest.
>
>    Poor Davey, drooled before squawking again.  Dave ol' boy, There
> are bound to be times when the SS agents couldn't maintain their
> positions at the limo, but that's all planned ahead of time.  To have
> a superior order a standdown just before the Assassination might be
> considered a bit suspicious, eh?

Only if it never happened on days he wasn`t shot, stupid.