ROBERT GRODEN
David Von Pein
RE: AN ONLINE INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT J. GRODEN......
Occasionally I like to take a look at the www.BlackOpRadio.com
website, just to see what the crazy conspiracy kooks are talking about
there at that Internet radio station. And this past week, I noticed a
name that I hadn't seen as a guest on Len Osanic's regular weekly
BlackOp program in the past (although he's probably been interviewed
there in previous years) -- conspiracy theorist and author Robert J.
Groden:
www.blackopradio.com/black392a.ram
So, I downloaded the interview (linked above) and listened to it. And
I discovered, not surprisingly, that Mr. Groden is still living in his
dream world of fanciful theories with respect to the way JFK died in
'63 (although he specifically states in the above-linked interview
that he, himself, never deals with "theories" about the case at all;
he says he only deals with the facts based, to a large extent, on the
photographic evidence). [LOL #1.]
And there is one particular incredibly-wrong statement that Groden
makes during that radio interview that I wanted to comment on....and
that's when Groden makes the outrageous claim (while generally
attempting to trash Vincent Bugliosi's fabulous JFK book at the same
time) that ALL of the Parkland Hospital doctors (not just some of
them, but "all" of them, per Mr. Groden) agreed that President Kennedy
had a bullet entry hole visible in the right temple at the front of
his head.
Quoting Groden from his September 2008 BlackOpRadio appearance --
"They [the Parkland doctors] saw an entrance wound in the right
temporal area and an exit wound in the back of his head; and they're
unanimous about it; well, Bugliosi ignores all of that."
Now, I'd like for Mr. Groden to dig up the testimony (or any other
post-1964 comments) of the Parkland doctors, and then point out within
those doctors' quotes where they say (in "unanimous" fashion, no
less!) that they specifically saw a bullet hole in the "right temporal
area" of President Kennedy's head on November 22, 1963.
That "unanimous" comment about all of the Dallas doctors seeing an
entry hole in the right temple of JFK's head is just an outright
lie....and surely Mr. Groden must know that it is.
Bob Groden should be embarrassed at having to resort to spreading
utterly-false information to the public via an Internet radio program
in order to continue the 45-year-long charade of a "JFK Conspiracy".
Groden, in the BlackOp interview, goes on to claim that Vince Bugliosi
"ignores" the HSCA's acoustics evidence. Of course, nothing could be
further from the truth. Bugliosi spends page after page after page in
the endnotes of his book ("Reclaiming History") talking about the
acoustics/Dictabelt evidence.
And, of course, Bugliosi also tells his reading audience the truth
about that supposed evidence for "conspiracy" -- i.e., it's bogus
evidence. Plain and simple. It's junk. It's just about as worthless as
you can get.
And yet, still, in 2008, we have people like Robert J. Groden going on
Internet radio shows and singing the praises of the acoustics/
Dictabelt evidence that was propped up 30 years ago by the HSCA as
representing a "95 percent or greater" chance that there was a second
gunman firing at JFK in Dealey Plaza.
But what Mr. Groden "ignores" is far worse for his "case for
conspiracy", and that is the fact that the acoustics evidence has been
deemed invalid and not credible by a variety of different experts. One
of those being Dale K. Myers:
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm
Also:
In another portion of Mr. Groden's BlackOp appearance, another
incredible "head in the sand" moment occurs with respect to another
chunk of evidence in the JFK case -- Groden is still trying to promote
the blatantly-false idea that Governor Connally was sitting "directly
in front" of JFK in the Presidential limousine on 11/22/63, instead of
Connally sitting a few inches to the left of Kennedy.
But just one glance at some of the pre-assassination motorcade
pictures showing the two men in the limousine will tell anyone that
Groden is just--well--full of feces when he claims that Connally was
situated "directly in front" of John Kennedy:
http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/JFK%20connally%204.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/inboard.jpg
Plus: the body draft (schematic) of JFK's limo from Hess & Eisenhardt
is further proof that Connally was sitting somewhat "inboard" (to the
left) of Kennedy's position in the limousine. And whether you want to
argue that the jump seat was "6 inches" inboard of the back seat or
"2.5 inches" inboard, the H&E schematic certainly shows the jump seat
to positively be inboard of the back seat:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0028b.htm
And since we can see (via various motorcade photographs taken on
November 22) that JFK was jammed pretty much all the way to the far-
right of his back seat during the Dallas motorcade, this makes it even
more certain that Mr. Groden doesn't know what he's talking about with
respect to the two victims' seated positions in relation to each
other.
But as long as Bob Groden has a conspiracy-slanted book to sell from
his newsstand on the steps near the Grassy Knoll in Dealey Plaza,
he'll continue to stay inside his cocoon of never-ending and never-
proven conspiracies regarding the death of the 35th U.S. President.
And he's got a new book coming out soon, called "JFK: Absolute Proof",
wherein--get this--Mr. Groden is going to tell the world where JFK's
brain is located at this very moment. He's got proof of it! And
photographs!
[LOL #2.]
It's a shame really (and quite sad), because Mr. Groden is a good
speaker. He can make a good speech, and I actually enjoy listening to
him talk. His theories about the assassination are totally crazy and
idiotic, of course, such as his notion (per his 1993 book "The Killing
Of A President") that it was highly likely that ZERO of a proposed
number of up to TEN gunshots had come from Oswald's Sniper's-Nest
window in the TSBD on November 22nd. [LOL #3.]
But I still kind of like listening to him talk, despite his nutty
views on the way the assassination occurred.
It's just too bad that a little more common sense hasn't been able to
seep into the many talks he's given to the crowds who have gathered to
listen to him on the Grassy Knoll.
Because if more conspiracy promoters would cling to just a little more
"CS&L" (Common Sense & Logic) when evaluating the JFK murder, they'd
probably soon thereafter find themselves promoting Vincent Bugliosi's
book, instead of calling it "bullshit" (which is the term Mr. Groden
thinks best applies to Mr. Bugliosi's magnificent tome).
David Von Pein
September 19, 2008
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d24cfcf0d0f8894b
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b1eb925fd0d000cb
aeffects
> RE: AN ONLINE INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT J. GRODEN......
...
> www.blackopradio.com/black392a.ram
>
> So, I downloaded the interview (linked above) and listened to it. And
> I discovered, not surprisingly, that Mr. Groden is still living in his
> dream world of fanciful theories with respect to the way JFK died in
> '63 (although he specifically states in the above-linked interview
> that he, himself, never deals with "theories" about the case at all;
> he says he only deals with the facts based, to a large extent, on the
> photographic evidence). [LOL #1.]
...
Son, about 15 years ago Robert Groden gave you a new lease on life.
Not to mention directing much needed attention to Gary Mack and the
6th Floor Museum, for that matter (and some would say) launched the
place into the public eye. You NEED him david er, Steve Keating!
So when you mention his name, make sure it is with reverence and lest
you forget, get on bended knee, recite 4 Hail Mary's - 20 Our Father's
and do 5 Rosary's.... Carry on with your Vinnie daBug diatribe!
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Ol' Toots-E-Roll Fella,
Er, I mean David *aeffects* Healy, published author on <snicker> *Z
film alteration*.
Say, Toots, it was funny the time ol' Groden went along to testify as
a photographic expert at the OJ Simpson civil trial and his
credentials were butchered on the witness stand by Peter Gelblum.
LOL! That was funny Toots, er, I mean Dave.
Remember how Groden didn't even know the name of any association of
questioned document examiners, let alone belong to one, LOL!
Oh the carnage was LEGENDARY, I have heard said. LOLOLOLOL!! :-)
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Even funnier when Groden was arrested in Dealy Plaza for fighting and
hitting his girlfriend...yep the photographic expert who worked fixing
xerox copiers LMAO...he has about as much clout as Healy does...A
latrine cleaner who wrote (as Tim says) *snicker* an article on Z film
alteration yet Healy doesn't believe that Zapruder was the one filming
the assassination. That's right up there with Healy telling everyone
one that JFK's middle name was FRANCIS ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lazu...@webtv.net
excellent, but Groden has a few feathers in his cap that no one can take
away-first person to show Zapruder film on national TV-chief consultant
to Oliver Stone's JFK a blockbuster worldwide & big seller that
continues today on DVD, but, I have to admit to this day I don't know
how much of High Treason Groden wrote,if any, since both Livingstone &
Him have taken sole credit.
lazu...@webtv.net
Harvey Oswald filled with many rare photos & pics not available in other
books, good blow ups,tied with Trask for best photographic book
regarding the Assassination.
aeffects
> TOP POST
>
> Hi Ol' Toots-E-Roll Fella,
>
> Er, I mean David *aeffects* Healy, published author on <snicker> *Z
> film alteration*.
Love it!
> Say, Toots, it was funny the time ol' Groden went along to testify as
> a photographic expert at the OJ Simpson civil trial and his
> credentials were butchered on the witness stand by Peter Gelblum.
you betcha.... Say toots-e-roll, its really okay, you can tell us
you've read Lifton chapter in HOAX, hell even Josiah 'Tink' Thompson
read it....
> LOL! That was funny Toots, er, I mean Dave.
you're learning, hon! I think we finally found a moniker for you.....
"Tim Snicker-Snee Brennan"
> Remember how Groden didn't even know the name of any association of
> questioned document examiners, let alone belong to one, LOL!
you ought to read his committee testimony.
> Oh the carnage was LEGENDARY, I have heard said. LOLOLOLOL!! :-)
the 6th Floor needs him, DP needs him -- be nice!
aeffects
wrote:
sitdown NAZI.... you're giving the swaztika and white supremacy a bad
name....
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Back to your cage bong sucker....you're worthless around here.
David Von Pein
>>> "When I met Groden in Dealey Plaza last year...he flashed us a couple of images he alleged to be previously unseen JFK autopsy photographs that he said he would be publishing soon. He vouched for their authenticity. I respectfully withheld comment. It will be interesting to see how people respond if/when they appear." <<<
Oh, I'm sure the CTers of the world will eat it up.
His new book, however, might be interesting just for the wealth of
photos in it. Groden says the book will contain 800 pictures,
including a lengthy series of pictures taken of Lee Oswald at Parkland
just before and just after he died (gee, I wasn't aware there was a
photographer in the ER with Oswald; this sounds most curious to me, in
a "WTF?" kind of fashion; but, we'll see). <shrug>
But if the conspiracy-oriented text in his newest book is anything
like the blatant falsehood (below) that he spouted on BlackOpRadio the
other day, then his book is going to have a really tough time,
credibility-wise (as if it won't anyhow):
"They [the Parkland doctors] saw an entrance wound in the right
temporal area and an exit wound in the back of his head; and they're
unanimous about it." -- Bob Groden; Sep. 2008
lazu...@webtv.net
that Groden showed him an Autopsy Photograph never before
seen....Anyway, has Groden been sittin' on bombshell stuff for 30
years?, including brain photos that show the cerebellum shredded?, or
did he get these from another source in the interim?
It has always been my contention that quite obviously, the brain
tracings done by Ida Dox are fakes.That's why the photographs are not
available. Because anyone that saw what was left of the brain at
Bethesda, describe severe damage to the cerebellum and rear of the
brain, not just the right front hemisphere shown in the Dox drawings.
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/6d6ebf975f19cf97
>>> "You do so [tune in to BlackOpRadio every now and then] to reassure yourself that you are not a kook because you never believe in any conspiracy." <<<
Well, yes, I can't lie to you, Tony. You're right. ;)
Everybody needs a little "Non-Kook" assurance from time to time. And
tuning in to Lenny "Bugliosi's Book Is Bullshit" Osanic's CT
playground usually does the trick.
BlackOp Footnote:
Here's today's "Did You Know?" fact (re: Len Osanic, whom I assumed
was probably a pretty knowledgable JFK "researcher", seeing as how he
hosts a 90-minute all-conspiracy Internet radio talk show every single
Thursday night, and has done so for years at BlackOpRadio):
Osanic, over the course of the last few months on his various radio
shows, has admitted that he had never even heard of Dale Myers or
Charles Givens prior to those names being mentioned by guests on his
show.
Len also had no idea that the Jack Ruby 1964 "Guilty" verdict had been
overturned and that Ruby was awaiting a re-trial at the time of his
death in January 1967.
It's hard for me to believe that a presumably well-seasoned "JFK
Conspiracy" talk-show host would have no idea who Dale Myers is (as of
2007).
And it's even more incredible that a person in Len's position would
have no idea who Charles Givens is (a key witness to critical events
surrounding the assassination).
I'd be willing to bet I could really trip him up when it comes to
things associated with the Tippit murder. (He might even ask me: Who's
Tippit?) ;)
>>> "Unfortunately the acoustical evidence is incompatible with Groden's solution of the shooting." <<<
A good, valid point.
Then again, ALL the evidence is incompatible with Groden's crazy "6-
to-10-shot" solution of the shooting. How could it NOT be
incompatible, seeing as how three and only three shots were
fired...and all from a location where Mr. Groden thinks no shots
likely originated (the southeast corner window of the TSBD)?
>>> "You keep repeating this falsehood [re. Groden's "0-for-10 From The SN"] as if it is a badge of honor to prove that you are a WC defender." <<<
Mr. Marsh evidently can't read. It's right there on pages 20-40 of
TKOAP. Plain as day. For everybody to see. Groden thinks ZERO shots
likely came from Oswald's SN window. And no amount of foot-stomping by
Anthony or anybody else will change what is printed on those 21 pages
in his 1993 publication. Bob is stuck with that 0-of-10
silliness....in print.
That's the danger of putting something stupid like that on the printed
page in book form. Even if he decides to change his mind, the stupid
stuff is still in print for all time, as a reminder of his original
"Zero-For-Ten" goofiness.
>>> "Of course you cite a known liar [Dale K. Myers]." <<<
You keep repeating this falsehood as if it is a badge of honor to
prove that you are a CT defender.
<smirk>
>>> "A few inches? You think "a few inches" solves the problem?" <<<
What "problem"? There is no problem. The SBT is obviously the true and
accurate solution to the double-man wounding of JFK & JBC.
As Vinnie B. says in "RH" (and he's right, of course): The SBT is so
obvious, a "child" could figure it out. (I wonder what that makes
CTers then? They're still in the womb, probably.)
>>> "So, in your mind, it really doesn't matter if the difference was 2.5 inches or 6 inches. Accuracy doesn't matter to you." <<<
Whether the jump seat was 2.5 inches from the right door or 6 inches
from it, John B. Connally is still going to get hit with that bullet
that exited John Kennedy's throat -- and that's a irrevocable fact.
Given the trajectory it was on after departing the President's neck,
the bullet couldn't have missed JBC.
"At that angle, no matter WHERE [the bullet] came from, it HAD
TO PASS THROUGH THE PRESIDENT'S BODY FIRST!" -- Albert E. Jenner, Jr.;
02/11/1967
THE WC's AL JENNER ON TAPE:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GN-LG8uZcs
>>> "Only a couple of people in the world still promote Bugliosi's fiction." <<<
Oh, I imagine I could find a third (if I tried really, really hard).
<eyeroll>
BTW, Tony, did you cue up the BlackOp program with Groden's bald-faced
"All the Dallas doctors said there was a right-temporal entrance
wound" lie?
Here's the link again (just for luck):
www.blackopradio.com/black392a.ram
Great researcher, that Robert G., huh?
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Just,
Say, I remember that one, *Sassy Knoll* it was called.
Ol' Groden got upset and wrote a letter to the paper about that
article, as I recall. LOL!
Still, one thing I'll say about Groden, he appears to have simply
offered his absurd interpretation of events and pretty much left it at
that.
Some of the antics of people like Wecht and Aguilar have been WAY
beyond the pale, in comparison, in my view.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Sep 20, 10:34 am, "justme1...@gmail.com" <justme1...@gmail.com>
wrote:
lazu...@webtv.net
doesn't make Groden look too good that he apparently has salted away
material for several decades without letting anyone really see or study,
like a very wealthy Art Collector getting a priceless Rembrandt,or Monet
in his private study that only he can appreciate.
On the other hand I just read Dale Myers piece on his JFK Files on
Groden-and it was writen in such a smug, superior tone that I thought it
was Bugliosi-these 2 guys deserve each other, and no wonder they had a
falling out..total egomaniacs who lest we forget.. trash Groden amongst
other things for not believing in magic bullets and defying physics with
a rear enty only headshot. Also, the dubious appeal to authority
regarding qualifications- we've seen over and over people with the
strongest qualifications be the most incompetent buffoons imaginable
whether in poltics or JFK related...Jeff
David Von Pein
>>> "Myers [and] Bugliosi...deserve each other, and no wonder they had a falling out." <<<
Why on Earth would anyone believe that? Just because Lifton says so?
Hilarious.
aeffects
duh, which way did he go, George -- which way did he go..... your envy
of **published** authors is what's hilarious... Carry on, troll!
lazu...@webtv.net
as is- deserve each other...
BTW-Groden's book should be most interesting, but The HSCA was handed a
bunch of phoneyed up BS, so the various panels, especially medical where
everything was done in secret and no one was accountable, rubber stamped
the friggin' ridiculous back of the head intact photos, & manufactured
cowlick entry. How could anybody with a conscience now accept this crap?
David Von Pein
>>> "The HSCA was handed a bunch of phoneyed up BS, so the various panels, especially medical where everything was done in secret and no one was accountable, rubber stamped the friggin' ridiculous back of the head intact photos, & manufactured cowlick entry. How could anybody with a conscience now accept this crap?" <<<
Simple -- Because it's stupid to think that a bunch of people got
together and decided to start faking and planting a whole lot of
evidence associated with the murder of the POTUS -- evidence such as
(but not limited to, per the conspiracy kooks): Autopsy photos,
autopsy X-rays, the backyard photos of LHO, the Zapruder Film, CE399,
the 3 shells in the TSBD, the MC rifle, the LHO palmprint on that
rifle, the paper bag in the SN, and the 2 prints of LHO's on that bag.
Not to mention the number of witnesses who needed to be "coerced" (or
"silenced", per CTers) following this complicated cover-up-filled
event.
Those things mentioned above (especially when considering the sheer
VOLUME of items in such a laundry list of things CTers need to be true
in order for their crazy "Anybody But Oswald" assertions to have a
hope of being accurate) are extraordinary things to have happen in a
murder case--any murder case. And, as such, they require some
extraordinary proof that any of them actually did occur. (A CTer's gut
feelings don't really count.)
Now, after having written the above verbiage, I'll toss Laz's question
back at him:
"How could anybody with a conscience now accept this crap?"
BTW, just for the acj record, I've had the feeling for some time now
that Mr. "Lazuli" (whoever he is) is much closer to "LN" status than
many of the other kooks in this asylum.
Laz is still a full-fledged 'ABO' kook, yes....but it seems to me that
most of his posts contain a built-in "hesitation" (for lack of a
better term).
Also, "Laz" very rarely (if ever) posts any citations or source links
for his pro-CT writings. He seems to be perfectly content to let other
fellow kooks do that sort of thing. He can't be bothered with backing
up anything he spouts with any actual evidence, evidently.
IOW, he always seems to be wanting another CTer to come along behind
him and verify the stupid shit he has just said in his last post. He
impresses me as a classic example of a kook who is always riding the
coattails of the CT-Kook in front of him.
But, hey, that's just the impression I get. However, maybe it's
similar in nature to the "impression" that many CTers have -- i.e.,
the impression that is telling them that Lee Harvey Oswald never fired
a shot at anybody on November 22nd. <g>
lazu...@webtv.net
let alone lone nutters, but no one who was at the Autopsy said the back
of the head was intact with a nice neat hole in the cowlick when JFK was
receiving his botched autopsy-it's mind boggling that anyone would be so
fucking dense and dishonest to not acknowledge this..Jeff
David Von Pein
>>> "No one who was at the Autopsy said the back of the head was intact with a nice neat hole in the cowlick when JFK was receiving his botched autopsy-it's mind boggling that anyone would be so fucking dense and dishonest to not acknowledge this..Jeff" <<<
The three autopsy surgeons confirmed (beyond all doubt) the two things
regarding JFK's assassination that you kooks make a living out of
attempting to dispute and discredit:
1.) The ONE AND ONLY entry wound for a bullet that existed on JFK's
head at his autopsy was in the BACK of his head, not in the front or
temple area.
2.) JFK was shot only from behind, and by only two bullets. No more.
It's mind boggling that anyone would be so fucking dense and dishonest
to not acknowledge this...DVP