Creating The Illusion That Oswald Purchased A Rifle From Klein's (Also The "Official Story" Of How The $21.45 Money Order Was Found
curtjester1
Rifle From Klein's
Six days after announcing that Oswald paid $12.78 for the rifle, *the
FBI changed their story* and said that he paid $19.95 for the rifle
with the scope already attached (plus $1.50 for postage).
NOTE: **The author does not know why the FBI changed their story. It
may have been because Klein's bank records did not show a deposit that
matched that amount.
In order to create the illusion that Oswald paid $21.45 for the mail
order rifle from Klein's, the FBI had to "locate" a corresponding
deposit in Klein's account at the First National Bank of Chicago. The
deposit had to be untraceable, which meant that it was made in cash or
with a US postal money order. *The deposit could not be in the form
of a personal check, or money order issued by a private company such
as a bank , Cooks, or American Express.*
According to FBI reports, Bureau agents began tracking the $21.45
money order at 9:00 am on the morning of November 23, *even though
they announced a few hours later that Oswald paid $12.78 for the
rifle*. They ALLEGEDLY spoke with William Waldman, of Klein's
Sporting Goods, then ALLEGEDLY spoke with Lester Gohr, the Assistant
Cashier of the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago. *These agents may
have interviewed these witnesses, but the information contained in
their reports suggests that they did not.*
At 9:00 am FBI agents Gale Johnson, James Hanlon, and Phillip Wanerus
ALLEGEDLY interviewd Klein's vice-president William Waldman, who
ALLEDGEDLY told the agents that Klein's records showed that a money
order in the amount of $21.45 was deposited to the Klein's account at
the First National Bank of Chicago on March 15, 1963. *It is doubtful
that Waldman gave this information to these agents, because he had not
seen an order from "A. Hidell" on the Klein's microfilm. He did not
know **the price paid for the rifle or the method of payment**. In
addition, Waldman had already given Klein's microfilm to agents Dolan,
Toedt, and Mahan earlier that morning.*
After ALLEDGELY interviewing William Waldman agents Johnson, Hanlon,
and Wanerus ALLEDGELY interviewed Robert Wilmouth, Vice-President of
the First National Bank of Chicago *(on Sunday morning)*. According
to their FBI report, Wilmouth said that Klein's made a deposit in the
amount of $13,827.98 on Friday, March 15, 1963. This deposit
contained hundreds of entries on 5 pages of adding machine tape, with
*two entries* in the amount of $21.45 (the FBI report was wrong; there
was only *one entry for $21.45* in he $13,827 deposit). Wilmouth
ALLEDGELY told the agents that one of the entries represented an
American Express money order and the second deposit item represented a
postal money order, both in the amount of $21.45. *But how would
Wilmouth know if these deposits were made with money orders when
looking at numbers on adding machine tapes? (see Vol 21, p. 706).
Wilmouth, ALLEDGELY told the agents that both deposits were made on
March 15, were processed by his bank on March 16 (Saturday), and were
received by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago on March 18, 1963.
*But the date on the deposit slip reads "2/13/63-a month before the
rifle was ordered (p. 706, Volume 21).* *And how could Wilmouth
possibly know the date that a money order was deposited at the Federal
Reserve Bank without looking at the cancelled money order, which he
did not have??* Wilmouth ALLEDEDLY told the agents, "Postal money
orders are sent to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, which in turn
sends them to a central processing center located in KANSAS CITY,
MISSOURI.
NOTE: **If neither the First National Bank nor the Federal Reserve
Board had copies of a $21.45 money order (No. 2,202,130,462), then
Wilmouth could not possibly have known the date the money order was
received by the Federal Reserve.**
After ALLEDGELY interviewing Robert Wilmouth agents Johnson, Hanlon,
and Wanerus ALLEDGELY interviewed Lester Gohr, the Assistant Cashier
of the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago-*on Saturday morning*.
According to the FBI report, Gohr said that records of postal money
orders were only kept for 6 months and that *he had no records prior
to May 29, 1963.*
From the information ALLEDGELY obtained from these bankers, we realize
that if they were interviewd on Saturday morning it is highly unlikely
they furnished the information that appears in the FBI reports.
*Also, if they had furnished information about a $21.45 money order to
FBI agents on Saturday morning, then the Bureau would never have
announced that Oswald paid $12.78 for the mail order rifle a few hours
later!* It is far more likely that these FBI reports were fabricated
in order to create the illusion that a $21.45 postal money order was
received by Klein's, deposited to their bank account and then sent to
the Federal Reserve.
We have already learned the $21.45 money order published in the Warren
Volumes was **never deposited into a bank or financial institution.**
*This means the mony order was not deposited to Klein's account at the
First National Bank of Chicago, nor deposited with the Federal Reserve
Bank, nor then returned to the Federal Records Center in Alexandria,
VA. It also means that the information contained in the FBI reports
of Johnson, Hanlon, and Wanerus was fabricated in order to create the
illusion that Oswald purchased a $21.45 money order which was
routinely processed through the federal banking system.
The "Official Story" of how the $21.45 money order was found.
At 1:45 pm on Saturday, November 23 Secret Service agent Edward Z.
Tucker arrived at Klein's Sporting Goods and began interviewing
William Waldman. At first Waldman was reluctant to speak with Agent
Tucker, *because he had been told by the FBI agents not to discuss the
investigation with anyone.* He alledgely told Tucker the price of
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was $21.45, including postage, and payment
may have been made with a money order. Tucker spoke with Secret
Service agent Griffith, who then called Chicago Postal Inspector Glenn
Knight and requested help in locating a postal money order in the
amount of $21.45.
One of the FBI agents who reviewed the Klein's microfilm, John Toedt,
ALLEDGELY contracted the Post Office in Chicago and also asked for
their assistance in locating a postal money order. Toedt was told to
contract the division headquarters in KANSAS CITY.
After receiving a call from the SS, Chicago Postal Inspector Martin J.
McGee ALLEDGELY telephoned Dallas Postal Inspector Cox, who in turn
contacted Harry Holmes, who stated he thought *he (Holmes) would be
able to find a record of a $21.45 money order in Dallas.*
NOTE: **Most of the background information relating to the $21.45
money order that is found in the reports of the US Post Office
originated with Harry Holmes and, therefore, should be considered
extremely suspect.**
Holmes told the WC, "I passed the information to the men (Dallas
postal employees) who were looking for this money order 'STUB' to show
which would designate, which would show the number of the money order,
and that is the onley way you could find one...within 10 minutes they
called back and said they had a money order in that amount issued on,
I don't know that I show, but it was that money order in an amount
issued at the main post office, which is the same place as this post
office box was at the time, box 2915, and the money order had been
issued **early on the morning of March 12th**, 1963.
NOTE: ** US post offices always kept the end "stub" of all money
orders sold to customers for their records. ***But neither Holmes nor
anyone else produced the "stub" or any postal records to support his
claim that Dallas postal employees in Dallas located the "stub" for
postal money order No. 2,202,130,462.***
**Holmes told the WC the money order was issued ***early on the
morning of March 12th.***, 1963. Yet there is nothing on a postal
mony order that shows the time of day it was sold. The Commission
should have asked Holmes how he knew the money order was issued
"**early on the morning of March 12, 1963.***"
**The only indication the money order was purchased on the morning of
March 12 was the postmark show on the microfilm copy of the envelop
ALLEDGELY mailed to Klein's which read, "10:30 am." The Kleins'
microfilm was never shown to Holmes and therefore Holmes could not
have known that a postal money order was issued ***early on the
morning of March 12, 1963***. The only way Holmes could have known
about the postmark would be if he had previously seen, or handled, the
envelope, or if had been told to say that.**
At 3:30 pm (November 23) Harry Holmes contacted Inspector Lloyd H.
Stephens in Fort Worth and told him that postal money order No.
2,202,130,462, in the amount of $21.45, had been used to pay for the
rifle. Stephens then contacted Inspector Duggan in Washington, DC and
game him the same information.
Postal inspectors at the Federal Postal Money Order in Kansas City
began searching for money order No. 2, 202,130,462, while a Postmaster
General Staff meeting was held in Washington DC. A summary of the
meeting prepared by the SS stated, "The initial request for the
identification and location of the subject US Postal Money order had
come from Postal Inspector Lloyd Stephens, Fort Worth, Texas.....as a
result of a conference between Mr. Donald Duggan, Deputy Chief, Postal
Inspection Service, Washington DC, and Postal Inspection Service at
Fort Worth, Texas, **the original US Postal Money Order would be
furnished to this service (Secret Service).**
At 7:30 pm (CST) Chicago Postal Inspector Glenn Knight advised Secrect
Service Agent Griffith that Postal Inspectors were attempting to
locate the postal money order in Kansas City. **Postal inspectors in
Kansas City had already spent 4 hours looking for postal money order
No. 2,202,130,462, without success.**
The Federal Postal Money Order Center in Kansas City was the same
facility at which 5 other postal money orders were located that had
been purchased by Oswald and used to repay his $435.71 loan from the
Department of State. FBI SA Donald E. Stangel obtained the following
information from the Department of State and the USPS.
He shows a chart with categories Ser # or M.O.; Amount; Issue Date;
Location; and Rec'd by State Dept
The first 5 postal money orders (beginning with series 1,156,417,562)
purchaed by Oswald in Fort Worth and Dallas were returned to the
Federal Postal Money Order Center in Kansas City. The last 3 postal
money ordrs (series 2,202,000,060) were returned to the Federal
Records Center in Alexander, VA. Money order No. 2,202,130.462,
ALLEDGELY purchased by Oswald from the GPO in Dallas, was ALLEDGELY
located at the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, VA on the evening
of November 23, 1963.
According to the serial numbers on these money orders, the GPO in
Dallas sold approxiamtely 1200 money orders per week (3888 from
November 14, 1962-December 6, 1962; 3475 from Jan. 5, 1963-Jan. 25,
1963). Using 1200 money orders per week as a guide, the serial number
of the money order ALLEDGELY purchased by Oswald on Mar. 12, 1963, was
2,202,130,462 (***118,527 numbers higher***). This serial number
indicates that this money order came from a stack of money orders that
should not have been sold by the GPO in Dallas until late 1964 or
early 1965, if sold in numerical order.
NOTE: **The Commission failed to ask the Postal Service when money
orders beginning with 2,202,130 were sent to the Dallas GPO. They
also failed to ask Holmes for the name of the postal employee who
allededly found the "stub" for the $21.45 money order.** While Postal
Inspectors continued to search for the $21.45 money order in Kansas
City, Dallas Postal Inspector/FBI Informatn Harry Holmes advised the
money ordr could be found in Washington DC. Holmes told the
Commission, "This number (2,202,130,462) was transmitted to the Chief
Inspector in Washington, who immediately got the money order center at
Washington to begin a search, which they use IBM equipment to kick out
this money order and sent it oer, ***so they said***, by special
conveyance to the Secret Service, chief of the Secret Service at
Washington now, and it turned out, ***so they said***, to be the
correct money order. **Holmes was the first and only person in Dallas
to know the number of the money order, and the first to suggest the
money order could be located in Washington, DC.**
NOTE: **The WC could not understand why it took nearly ***16 hours***
to locate the money order. Harry Holmes said the delay was caused
because the FBI provided him with incorrect information. Holmes said
the Bureau advised him the amount of the money order was $21.95
instead of $21.45, which caused him to look for a different money
order, ***but not a single person corroborated Holmes' story.***
In Washington, DC, the Deputy Chief of the Postal Inspection Service,
Donald D. Duggan, insturcted Postal Finance Officer ***J. Harold
Marks*** to indicate a search for the money order in Washington, DC,
at 6:30 PM (CST).
At 7:55 PM (CST), Chicago Secret Service Agent Griffith was told that
postal money order No. 2,202,130,462 had been located in Washington,
DC (8:55 EST). Griffith then telephoned agent Mroz, in Kansas City,
and advised him the $21.45 postal money order had been recovered in
Washington.
NOTE: **Apparently the Dallas FBI office was not aware the money
order had been located. At 9:30 PM (CST) the Dallas office sent an
airtel to the Director and SAC's in Chicago and New York. The message
said, "Advised inst. money order culd not be located today, but would
be located *Nov. twenty four next."*
Postal money order No. 2,202,190,462 was ALLEDGELY found at the
Federal Records Center in Alexandria, VA by Robert Jackson, *an
employee of the National Archives.*
NOTE: **This $21.45 money order was never deposited into a financial
institution and therefore could not have been routed through the
banking system and returned to the Federal Records Center in
Alexandria, VA. This money order was probably obtained from the GPO
in Dallas in the early afternoon of November 23, hand-delivered to
Washington, DC, and "planted" at the Federal Records Center in the
early evening.**
**It remains unknown whether Robert Jackson "found" the money order at
the Federal Records Center or it was given to him. There were no
witnesses present and neither Jackson, Marks, Parker, nor anyone from
the National Archives and Records Service were interviewed by the FBI,
Secret Service, or Warren Commission.**
Robert Jackson hand-delivered the $21.45 money order to the home of
**J. Harold Marks** in Washington, DC, who had been told to locate the
money order by Deputy Chief Donald D. Duggan. A summary report
prepared by Secret Service Agent Donald E. Burke on November 26, 1963
provided the details of how the money order was given to the Secret
Service:
"At 10:10 PM (EST-9:10 CST) November 23 1963 SA Parker obtained the
original US Postal Money Order from Mr. Harold Marks at Mr. Marks's
home. At that time Jackson was identified as Robert H. Jackson, 2121
Lee Wood Drive, Alexandria, Virginia, telephone, SO 5-7501, and
employee of the National Archives and Records Service....He informed
SA Parker that he obtained subject original postal money order and
surrendered it to Mr. Marks. Both Jackson and Marks initialed and
dated the original money order, after which it was surrendered to SA
Parker, who in turn initialed and dated the money order.
On the evening of November 23, 1963 the $21.45 postal money order was
initialed and dated by Robert H. Jackson (RHJ), J. Harold Marks (JHM),
and John E. Parker (JEP). A summary report by the SS explained how
copies of the money order were sent to the Dallas office:
"SA Phillips (Secret Service, Dallas) advised, after consultation with
Inspector Kelley of this service, that two photstats be made of
subject postal money order and that these photostates be placed on
Flight #107, Braniff Airlines, departing Washington, DC, at (9:00 am
on November 24, 1963, and arriving at Dallas, Texas at 11:50 A.M.
SA Parker made five photostats of subject US Postal Money Order and
placed them in an envelope. SA Parker surrendered the envelop to
Captain Davis of Flight #107, Braniff Airlines, departing National
Airport, Washington, DC, at 9 AM on November 24, 1963, for delivery to
Special Agent in Charge, US Secret Service at Dallas.
The secret service provided the Dallas Police with a copy of the money
order, which was published among their exhibits in the Warren Volumes,
CE 2003 (DPD file). The Secret Service summary report explained what
happened to the ***original*** $21.45 money order:
"SA (Max D.) Phillips also requested that a chain of custody be
maintained, and that ***original postal money order be retained by the
Washington Field Office safe.***
SA Parker then surrendered the original US Postal Money Order to SAIC
Gaiglein, which he had previously placed in a sealed white envelope
after which SA Parker placed the ***original US Postal Money Order
sealed in this envelope in the WFO (Washington Field Office) safe.***
On the morning of November 24, 1963, Deputy Chief Paterni (Secret
Service, Washington), when informed by SA John H. Grimes, Jr., of this
Secret Service that the Postal Inspection Service, through Postal
Inspector Joseph A. Verant advised that the original US Postal Money
Order ws being sought by the FBI, authorized SA Grimes to surrender
the original Postal Money Order to the Federal Bureau of
Investigation. Immediately thereafter, while SA Grimes was attempting
to make telephone contact with SAIC Glenn Gillies, Washington Field
Office, Federal Bureau of Investigation, SA Leslie B. Chisholm, FBI,
telephonicall contacted the reporting agent concerning this original
US Postal Money Order. SA Chisholm was advised that the postal money
order was available and he stated he or an agent of the FBI would pick
up this money order at the Washington Field Ofice of this Secret
Service).
SA Grimes of this service removed the sealed envelope containing the
original US Postal Money ORder from the WFO safe; removed the original
money order from this envelope; initialed and dated the money order;
made four photostats of it, and surrendered it to SA Chisholm of the
FBI who executed a receipt."
On November 24, SA Chisholm delivered the original money order to
James T. Freeman at the FBI laboratory in Washington, DC. The summary
report continued:
"This paid order was located at the Records Center in Alexandria,
Virginia on the early evening of November 23. It was turned over to a
Secret Service agent in Washington, DC who flew it to Dallas."
NOTE: **The information that a secret service agent hand carried the
original money order to Dallas came from Harry Holmes. As we have
seen, this did not happen and was yet another of Holmes'
fabrications. ***Copies** of the money order were sent to Dallas, but
the original uncashed and undepostited money order was turned over to
the FBI laborator.**
What is the origin of the unused $21.45 money order?
To be considered later.
Taken from Harvey and Lee pgs 461-67
CJ
YoHarvey
44 years and this is the shit that CT's have to post. God love
America......for tolerating this crap.
curtjester1
An LNT'er couldn't possibly love America when they careless about the
evidence in general or the chain of evidence when they knock off an
American President.
CJ
bigdog
Did I read this right? Did CJ just accuse us LNs of being in on the
plot? It's hard to say because he seems to have accused "they" again,
whoever the fuck "they" are. Is he including us LNs under the "they"
label? Hell why not. The CTs have accused just about everybody else.
Why should we be left out?
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e0c1d729a417a548
Oh brother.
"ALLEGEDLY" my ass.
The handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT CONNECTED TO THE PURCHASE OF
RIFLE C2766 BEING IN LEE OSWALD'S OWN HANDWRITING doesn't seem to mean
a damn thing to CT-Kooks.
The magazine order-form coupon -- In LHO's writing.
The envelope the coupon was mailed in -- In LHO's writing.
The Money Order for $21.45 -- In LHO's writing.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0352a.htm
The CTers want to sidestep the MULTIPLE hunks of "IT WAS OSWALD'S
HANDWRITING" that prove beyond all doubt that Lee Oswald (via an
obvious alias -- A.J. Hidell) ordered and paid for the JFK murder
weapon....with the kooks, instead, harping on the to-the-minute
timelines of when the documents IN OSWALD'S HANDWRITING were found.
So, the next step for the kooks to take will have to be (and has been
on occasion) to accuse the authorities of forging/faking Oswald's
handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT connected with the purchase of
the rifle (plus the revolver from Seaport-Traders too, I would
imagine).
IOW -- The thread-starting post above really doesn't "Go Anywhere"
unless the CT-Kook can prove that the documents in question were not
really in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Those crooked bastards framing Oz sure did a nice job of faking LHO's
handwriting, didn't they? They fooled every handwriting expert. Or
were those experts "in" on the massive "Let's Get Ozzie" plot too?
Prob'ly so, huh?
What's next on the "Nothing Is What It Seems To Be" menu, conspiracy
kooks? Maybe Jack Ruby really didn't kill Oswald at all? Maybe Ruby
was being impersonated by Danny Aiello. Perhaps even RUBY was framed
for murder in November 1963, huh? (After all, nothing is ever what it
seems to be in Dallas.)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TM0CP0TPL._SS500_.jpg
Walt
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e0c1d729...
>
> Oh brother.
>
> "ALLEGEDLY" my ass.
>
> The handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT CONNECTED TO THE PURCHASE OF
> RIFLE C2766 BEING IN LEE OSWALD'S OWN HANDWRITING doesn't seem to mean
> a damn thing to CT-Kooks.
>
> The magazine order-form coupon -- In LHO's writing.
> The envelope the coupon was mailed in -- In LHO's writing.
> The Money Order for $21.45 -- In LHO's writing.
>
>
> The CTers want to sidestep the MULTIPLE hunks of "IT WAS OSWALD'S
> HANDWRITING" that prove beyond all doubt that Lee Oswald (via an
> obvious alias -- A.J. Hidell) ordered and paid for the JFK murder
> weapon....with the kooks, instead, harping on the to-the-minute
> timelines of when the documents IN OSWALD'S HANDWRITING were found.
>
> So, the next step for the kooks to take will have to be (and has been
> on occasion) to accuse the authorities of forging/faking Oswald's
> handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT connected with the purchase of
> the rifle (plus the revolver from Seaport-Traders too, I would
> imagine).
>
> IOW -- The thread-starting post above really doesn't "Go Anywhere"
> unless the CT-Kook can prove that the documents in question were not
> really in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.
>
> Those crooked bastards framing Oz sure did a nice job of faking LHO's
> handwriting, didn't they? They fooled every handwriting expert. Or
> were those experts "in" on the massive "Let's Get Ozzie" plot too?
> Prob'ly so, huh?
Hey Von Pea Brain... Waddya say ....How about using yer own eyes??
Let's you and I take a look and see if a couple of amatuers can spot
anything that the "experts" coulda overlooked.
Let's take a look at the Money order first... How about the capital
"H" in Hidell?? You'll notice that the "H" has a "flag" at the top of
the left hand vertical bar. Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H" in
this manner?? I haven't been able to find a single instance where
Oswalf ever made a capital "H" in that manner. The overall
composition is a little neater than Oswald's cramped writing style.
There are many examples of Oswald's handwriting but I'm using the
letter Oswald wrote that is seen on page 263 of the W.R. Notice the
way that Oswald made a Capital "H" in his signature, it is totally
different than the "H" on the money Order. There are many other
rxamples of discrepancies that indicate that the Money Oreder was not
filled in by Oswald. Do you have the guts to try to continue the
examination of the writing on those documents??
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9234d22d20c31cd2
>>> "How about the capital "H" in Hidell? You'll notice that the "H" has a "flag" at the top of the left-hand vertical bar. Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?" <<<
Yes. Many times. (See below.)
>>> "I haven't been able to find a single instance where Oswald ever made a capital "H" in that manner." <<<
Then you didn't look very hard...because I found multiple examples of
Oswald writing the capital letter "H" in just such a manner (and it
only took me five minutes to find these several examples, so I'm sure
there are several more where these came from).
It would appear from the bulk of his correspondence that Oswald didn't
normally put the "tail" at the top-left of his capital Hs when he
wrote his name. But I found at least one instance when he did do just
that (CE820-A; below):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0363a.htm
Lee normally, though, didn't put the "tail" on the capital letter H in
his signature. But whenever he would capitalize the letter H in a
sentence, the "tail" would be present, just like we find it on the
Money Order for the rifle.
The following example is the first one I looked at when researching
this "Capital H" matter....it's Oswald's TSBD work application that he
filled out on October 15, 1963 (CE496):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0118b.htm
The above document is important to show that Walt is full of feces,
because it reveals a COMBINATION of different "Capital H" variations
within the very same document.
On that application, LHO signed his name without the "tail" on the
letter H. But we can see that TWICE elsewhere on the application,
Oswald does include the "tail" on a capital H -- when he wrote
"Heights" (in "Arlington Heights") and "Honorable" (in "Honorable
Discharge", which, of course, was one of several lies that Oswald told
on that application, btw; more on that at the link below, if anyone's
interested). .....
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7014c5ae9f21a7cc
Want more? OK......
Here's another "Capital H" example, with the extra "tail" attached to
it, via CE780 (the word "However", which starts this document's third
paragraph):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0341a.htm
And then we have CE784-A (below), which shows various samples of
Oswald's known handwriting, including two examples of how LHO wrote
the word "However" -- with the capital "H" looking just exactly as we
find it on the Money Order for the rifle and in CE780 and on LHO's
work application:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0349b.htm
The U.S. Postal Money Order:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0352a.htm
Are all of the above examples of Oswald's handwriting just more of the
many documents (with the tail/"flag" on the Hs) that you think are
"fake", Walt?
Or could it be that you're just a piss-poor researcher?
I'll vote for the latter.
>>> "Do you have the guts to try to continue the examination of the writing on those documents?" <<<
After I just thoroughly and handily embarrassed you regarding this
"Letter H" matter, are you sure that YOU actually wish to continue
with your unsupportable "NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS TO BE REGARDING
ANYTHING CONNECTED TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD" fairy tale?
Let's hear your next hunk of CTer brilliance in the category of: "IT
WASN'T OSWALD'S HANDWRITING, EVEN THOUGH MULTIPLE EXPERTS WHO ARE PAID
TO EXAMINE SUCH THINGS SAID IT WAS HIS WRITING".
I love watching a CT fish flounder.
aeffects
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9234d22d20c31cd2
>
> >>> "How about the capital "H" in Hidell? You'll notice that the "H" has a "flag" at the top of the left-hand vertical bar. Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?" <<<
>
> Yes. Many times. (See below.)
you son haven't quoted none other than yourself or Vinnie.... who are
we to believe, eh?
<snip the Nutter nonsense>
curtjester1
Walt, there was no real intense looking into this matter. The
"experts" were from the FBI and one determined that the writing was
the same by looking at two words, Dallas and Texas. And the Noots
call it a 'ringing endorsement'....LOL. (They had already made the
microfilm from Klein's disappear).
CJ
David Von Pein
>>> "you son haven't quoted none other than yourself or Vinnie." <<<
Healy thinks that my citing (and providing links for) the multiple
Commission Exhibits shown in my last post indicates that I'm quoting
only myself or VB.
So, just when you think Healy The Kook can't make himself look any
more foolish....he somehow manages to accomplish just that very feat.
Quite a talent indeed.
Walt
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9234d22d20c31cd2
>
> >>> "How about the capital "H" in Hidell? You'll notice that the "H" has a "flag" at the top of the left-hand vertical bar. Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?" <<<
>
> Yes. Many times. (See below.)
>
> >>> "I haven't been able to find a single instance where Oswald ever made a capital "H" in that manner." <<<
>
> Then you didn't look very hard...because I found multiple examples of
> Oswald writing the capital letter "H" in just such a manner (and it
> only took me five minutes to find these several examples, so I'm sure
> there are several more where these came from).
>
> It would appear from the bulk of his correspondence that Oswald didn't
> normally put the "tail" at the top-left of his capital Hs when he
> wrote his name. But I found at least one instance when he did do just
> that (CE820-A; below):
>
Nice try.... But the "H" in in the Leslie Welding letter is NOT like
the "H" in Hidell on the M.O.
The person who made the "H" in on the Leslie welding letter started
his second stroke at the BOTTOM of the right hand vertical bar, then
swept up to the top and then back down and to the left to start the
crossbar which continues to the right.
Oswald starts the second stroke of the letter "H" at the TOP of the
right hand vertical bar then he sweeps down to the bottom of the bar,
then up and to the left to start the horizontal crossbar on the left
side of the "H".
Look again.... That example only reinforced my point.
>
> Lee normally, though, didn't put the "tail" on the capital letter H in
> his signature. But whenever he would capitalize the letter H in a
> sentence, the "tail" would be present, just like we find it on the
> Money Order for the rifle.
>
> The following example is the first one I looked at when researching
> this "Capital H" matter....it's Oswald's TSBD work application that he
> filled out on October 15, 1963 (CE496):
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> The above document is important to show that Walt is full of feces,
> because it reveals a COMBINATION of different "Capital H" variations
> within the very same document.
>
> On that application, LHO signed his name without the "tail" on the
> letter H. But we can see that TWICE elsewhere on the application,
> Oswald does include the "tail" on a capital H -- when he wrote
> "Heights" (in "Arlington Heights") and "Honorable" (in "Honorable
> Discharge", which, of course, was one of several lies that Oswald told
> on that application, btw; more on that at the link below, if anyone's
> interested). .....
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7014c5ae9f21a7cc
>
> Want more? OK......
>
> Here's another "Capital H" example, with the extra "tail" attached to
> it, via CE780 (the word "However", which starts this document's third
> paragraph):
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> And then we have CE784-A (below), which shows various samples of
> Oswald's known handwriting, including two examples of how LHO wrote
> the word "However" -- with the capital "H" looking just exactly as we
> find it on the Money Order for the rifle and in CE780 and on LHO's
> work application:
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> The U.S. Postal Money Order:
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
David Von Pein
(from his letters to his brother Robert or other documents) that the
Money Order and the magazine coupon were written by Lee H. Oswald to
the exclusion of everybody else. Only an idiot would determine
otherwise.
And I'm certainly no "Questioned Documents Expert". But it's blatantly
obvious. Anyone could see the similarities in writing. (Except, of
course, for you 'ABO' CT-Kooks, who can't even figure out who took a
rifle into the TSBD on the morning of JFK's murder.)
aeffects
your case has failed Dave, hope you have another career path figured
out, shame on you at this age if you don't....
David Von Pein
mid-stream.
He asked if Oswald had ever written an "H" with a tail on the end of
it....I proved that LHO did do this (many times)....Walt said that LHO
had NEVER written an H in such a tailed manner.
Now, Walt is going to a different tack...about the "sweeps" of the
letters.
Yes, "sweeps" are important to a Questioned Documents Examiner, but
you, Walt, said this previously.....
"How about the capital "H" in Hidell?? You'll notice that the
"H" has a "flag" at the top of the left hand vertical bar. Did Oswald
ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?? I haven't been able to find a
single instance where Oswalf ever made a capital "H" in that manner."
I proved Walt was wrong. And what do I get in return from the Mega-
Kook (as expected, of course, since I'm dealing with a freaking madman
here)? I get this from Walter The Nutcase.....
"Nice try....But the "H" in in the Leslie Welding letter is NOT
Walt
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9234d22d20c31cd2
>
> >>> "How about the capital "H" in Hidell? You'll notice that the "H" has a "flag" at the top of the left-hand vertical bar. Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?" <<<
>
> Yes. Many times. (See below.)
>
> >>> "I haven't been able to find a single instance where Oswald ever made a capital "H" in that manner." <<<
>
> Then you didn't look very hard...because I found multiple examples of
> Oswald writing the capital letter "H" in just such a manner (and it
> only took me five minutes to find these several examples, so I'm sure
> there are several more where these came from).
>
> It would appear from the bulk of his correspondence that Oswald didn't
> normally put the "tail" at the top-left of his capital Hs when he
> wrote his name. But I found at least one instance when he did do just
> that (CE820-A; below):
>
>
> Lee normally, though, didn't put the "tail" on the capital letter H in
> his signature. But whenever he would capitalize the letter H in a
> sentence, the "tail" would be present, just like we find it on the
> Money Order for the rifle.
>
> The following example is the first one I looked at when researching
> this "Capital H" matter....it's Oswald's TSBD work application that he
> filled out on October 15, 1963 (CE496):
>
>
> The above document is important to show that Walt is full of feces,
> because it reveals a COMBINATION of different "Capital H" variations
> within the very same document.
>
> On that application, LHO signed his name without the "tail" on the
> letter H. But we can see that TWICE elsewhere on the application,
> Oswald does include the "tail" on a capital H -- when he wrote
> "Heights" (in "Arlington Heights") and "Honorable" (in "Honorable
> Discharge", which, of course, was one of several lies that Oswald told
> on that application, btw; more on that at the link below, if anyone's
> interested). .....
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7014c5ae9f21a7cc
>
> Want more? OK......
>
> Here's another "Capital H" example, with the extra "tail" attached to
> it, via CE780 (the word "However", which starts this document's third
> paragraph):
>
>
> And then we have CE784-A (below), which shows various samples of
> Oswald's known handwriting, including two examples of how LHO wrote
> the word "However" -- with the capital "H" looking just exactly as we
> find it on the Money Order for the rifle and in CE780 and on LHO's
> work application:
>
>
> The U.S. Postal Money Order:
>
>
> Are all of the above examples of Oswald's handwriting just more of the
> many documents (with the tail/"flag" on the Hs) that you think are
> "fake", Walt?
>
> Or could it be that you're just a piss-poor researcher?
>
> I'll vote for the latter.
>
> >>> "Do you have the guts to try to continue the examination of the writing on those documents?" <<<
>
> After I just thoroughly and handily embarrassed you regarding this
> "Letter H" matter, are you sure that YOU actually wish to continue
> with your unsupportable "NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS TO BE REGARDING
> ANYTHING CONNECTED TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD" fairy tale?
>
> Let's hear your next hunk of CTer brilliance in the category of: "IT
> WASN'T OSWALD'S HANDWRITING, EVEN THOUGH MULTIPLE EXPERTS WHO ARE PAID
> TO EXAMINE SUCH THINGS SAID IT WAS HIS WRITING".
>
> I love watching a CT fish flounder.
I studied the hand writing many years ago and came to the conclusion
that Oswald did fill in the MO and address the envelope.... I reached
no conclusion about who filled out the PRINTED order blank. I Had long
been puzzled by that capital "H" because I never saw any document that
Oswald had written on where he made an "H" in the manner it's seen on
the MO. I noticed that you think the printing on the Order blank can
be verified as Oswald's printing, I doubt that anybody could be 100%
certain that Oswald filled out that order blank.
Thanks for posting examples that seem to show that Oswald sometimes
made a capital "H" with a flag at the top of the left hand bar.....
Interesting.....and unusual for a person to change the way he makes
letters.
Even though I do believe that Oswald filled out the MO and addressed
the envelope....It proves nothing as far as ownership of the rifle. I
know that Oswald, De Morhenschildt, and Paine were cooking up some
kind of scheme in the spring of 1963. Since I know that I believe
it's entirely possible that De M was the actual owner of that rifle.
One of the application blanks that you provided a link to was NOT
filled out by the man that was lynched in the basement of the DPD.
aeffects
Walt, you're mentioning names Nutter's would rather forget at this
place and time, forever actually :)
Walt
> Walt's now trying to switch the rules and play a different CT game in
> mid-stream.
>
> He asked if Oswald had ever written an "H" with a tail on the end of
> it....I proved that LHO did do this (many times)....Walt said that LHO
> had NEVER written an H in such a tailed manner.
Here's what Walt actually said:.... Did Oswald ever make a Capital "H"
in this manner?? I haven't been able to find a single instance where
Oswalf ever made a capital "H" in that manner.
>
> Now, Walt is going to a different tack...about the "sweeps" of the
> letters.
>
> Yes, "sweeps" are important to a Questioned Documents Examiner, but
> you, Walt, said this previously.....
>
> "How about the capital "H" in Hidell?? You'll notice that the
> "H" has a "flag" at the top of the left hand vertical bar. Did Oswald
> ever make a Capital "H" in this manner?? I haven't been able to find a
> single instance where Oswalf ever made a capital "H" in that manner."
>
> I proved Walt was wrong. And what do I get in return from the Mega-
> Kook (as expected, of course, since I'm dealing with a freaking madman
> here)? I get this from Walter The Nutcase.....
>
> "Nice try....But the "H" in in the Leslie Welding letter is NOT
> like the "H" in Hidell on the M.O."
I stand by my statement... The "H" in the Leslie Welding letter is NOT
made in the same manner as the "H" in Hidell on the MO.
David Von Pein
all "fakes" too, including the 2 on Oz's TSBD application? Or do you
want to ignore these examples altogether?......
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0118b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0341a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0349b.htm
curtjester1
Walt, I read recently about Armstrong commenting about the alleged
writing of the set up Oswald (Lee) and the TSBD (knew Russian from
childhood Harvey). He mentioned about the H in one of them. If an
Oswald did fill out the order blank from Alba's, it would surely have
been LEE. Those that saw LEE at the Sport's Drome Shooting Range
described him as a crack shot, and had a Japanese scope on his rifle,
but according to them it was an extremely nice one, compared to the
cheap stuff from Klein's. He even said he paid $18 dollars for it.
Anyway, they the rifle experts there were asked if Oswald's weapon at
the range matched the one found in the Depository, and they said it
was fairly close but different. Dwayne Dial Ryder at the Gunshop who
put mounts on an 'Oswald' rifle said that rifle was shorter than the
one found at the TSBD, and it looked more like an Argentine Mauser.
CJ
aeffects
oh really,
17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other
ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with
abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a
new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions
who can "argue" with you over the new topic and polarize the
discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
David Von Pein
Healy. (So now you can drag out "#12", or whatever number it is, to
say that I'm "citing authority figures too much", or some such
shit.) .....
"The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the
tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty
pieces of solid evidence; accepts one witness of theirs, even if he or
she is a provable nut, as being far more credible than ten normal
witnesses on the other side; treats rumors, even questions, as the
equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to
the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain
everything perfectly negates all that is explained." -- Vince B.
~~~~~~~~~~
"In addition to Oswald's palm print being found on the underside
of the Carcano's barrel, we know that Oswald's fingerprints were found
within an inch of the trigger of the rifle found on the sixth floor of
the Texas School Book Depository Building. The evidence is clear and
unimpeachable -- Lee Harvey Oswald bought, owned, and handled the
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle found on the sixth floor. And it was THIS
weapon that was used to murder John F. Kennedy." -- Vince B.
~~~~~~~~~~
"A substantial majority of the conspiracy community is also
extremely gullible, believing every story they hear without bothering
to check it to see if it is accurate or makes any sense. As long as
the story helps their theory, they buy it. They would improve the
quality of their research appreciably by simply embracing rule number
one of the journalistic profession: "If your mama says she loves you,
check it out"." -- Vince B.
Walt
> And the other FIVE "H" examples?? What about those, Walter? Are they
> all "fakes" too, including the 2 on Oz's TSBD application? Or do you
> want to ignore these examples altogether?......
>
The application in the link above does NOT appear to have been filled
out by the man that was lynched in the basement of the DPD. Lee Oswald
was an American.... Brits, Canadians, Aussies et al; use H-o-n-o-u-r-a-
b-l-e Americans spell it H-o-n-o-r-a-b-l-e. ... The document is
just loaded with questionable info.... Lee Oswald was trained in
electronics by the MC .... Yet there is not a mention of his
electronic training.... the "skills" listed are those of a flunkie
office clerk. And the signature certainly doesn't look Like Lee
Oswald's signature.
Thanks for posting the link....which shows that there was another
person using Oswald's name. No big deal, it's a common deception
employed by many intelligence agencies....
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
Walt
Yes, Curt, I agree the guy at the Sports Drome certainly was NOT Lee
H.Oswald ( Marina's husband) If the guy was in fact shooting a
Mannlicher Carcano it probably was a custom rifle that had been
accurized and I believe he was shooting hand loaded ammo. Because
many of the people who noticed him shooting mentioned the extremely
load noise of the rifle and saw flame belching from the muzzle when he
fired. Those two characteristics are a sure sign that the guy was
using "hot" loads. He probably was a gun enthusist. I know many of
them and they love to "tinker" and experiment with custom loaded
ammunition. I doubt that he had any connection with the murder of
JFK.
Walt
Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Von Pein
of bullcrap to the next? I do.
Now, faced with the undeniable reality that Lee Harvey Oswald
positively did write his "Hs" with a tail on the end of them on many
occasions, a kook named Walter is now implying that the work
application that Oz filled out on 10/15/63 was filled out by yet
"ANOTHER PERSON USING OSWALD'S NAME".
LOL.
Only problem there is this testimony by Roy S. Truly, who said that
Oswald filled out the application IN TRULY'S PRESENCE, RIGHT THERE IN
THE DEPOSITORY BUILDING......
Mr. TRULY. I gave him an application to fill out, which he did.
Mr. BELIN. Did he fill it out in front of you, or not?
Mr. TRULY. Yes; he did.
===========
Next up for Sinking Walt --- Roy Truly was a lying "conspirator" too.
Or, maybe, the person Truly hired on Oct. 15 was NOT the "real" L.H.
Oswald.
Try going to John "Double Oswald" Armstrong for help, Walt. He can get
you out of any scrape. He'll just add another "Imposter LHO" to the
mix. Which is, of course, what Walt The Kook just did as well.
Walt
> Don't ya just love the way CT-Kooks jump from one unsupportable hunk
> of bullcrap to the next? I do.
>
> Now, faced with the undeniable reality that Lee Harvey Oswald
> positively did write his "Hs" with a tail on the end of them on many
> occasions, a kook named Walter is now implying that the work
> application that Oz filled out on 10/15/63 was filled out by yet
> "ANOTHER PERSON USING OSWALD'S NAME".
>
> LOL.
>
> Only problem there is this testimony by Roy S. Truly, who said that
> Oswald filled out the application IN TRULY'S PRESENCE, RIGHT THERE IN
> THE DEPOSITORY BUILDING......
>
> Mr. TRULY. I gave him an application to fill out, which he did.
>
> Mr. BELIN. Did he fill it out in front of you, or not?
>
> Mr. TRULY. Yes; he did.
>
> ===========
>
> Next up for Sinking Walt --- Roy Truly was a lying "conspirator" too.
> Or, maybe, the person Truly hired on Oct. 15 was NOT the "real" L.H.
> Oswald.
Surprise!! .... I've long believed that Roy truly was involved in the
murder up to his eyebrows.
Walt
Hey Von Pea Brain.... It's been clear to me for a long time that you
are one of the latter day conspiritors, whose job is to keep the truth
hidden and introduce disinformation where ever possible. It's
abundantly clear that you are perfesser Mc Adams lap dog.....
David Von Pein
>>> "I've long believed that Roy Truly was involved in the murder up to his eyebrows." <<<
Of course. Wasn't everybody?
Such unsupportable drivel is to be expected from you kooks.
I'm sure you've got Marguerite and Robert Oswald mixed up in the
"plot" someplace....right Walt?
How about little Junie? She surely can't be left off the list of
suspects, can she?
curtjester1
Walt
I don't know the number for this tactic.... When all else fails use a
heavy dose of sarcasism, and ridicule...
David Von Pein
Yeah...there's surely a "number" for this someplace in the "Conspiracy
Theorist's Complete Guide To Obfuscation And Misrepresentation Of The
Facts".
But even if there's not a number for it in your handy guidebook, it
sure does apply nonetheless....because if there was ever a group of
individuals who deserved "a heavy dose of sarcasm and ridicule", it's
the current crop of conspiracy-favoring clowns here at acj.
David Von Pein
Is this the same kind of "clarity" that enabled you to see that Lee
Oswald never once wrote a Capital "H" in a certain manner (even though
you could have very, very easily proven to yourself that he did by
performing a 2-minute web search of the "History Matters" website)?
In other words, when it comes to things associated with the John F.
Kennedy murder case, things that are "clear" to Walt are never "clear"
to reasonable people....and things that are clear to reasonable people
are always (always!) murky and cloudy and shadow-filled to Walt and
his ilk.
Just par for the "Kook Kourse" (of course).
>>> "It's abundantly clear that you are perfesser [sic] McAdams' lap dog." <<<
Which makes this a perfect time to thank Mr. McAdams publicly for
recently adding my JFK webpage (Blog) to his "Sites" page on his
excellent and comprehensive JFK Assassination Internet website:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sites.htm
I am very grateful to have Mr. McAdams think highly enough of my JFK
writings to want to include my Blog on his webpage which includes many
top-flight assassination resources.
Having my Blog appear on Mr. McAdams' site is all the more a treat and
a pleasure given the fact that it is an Internet location that is
considered "THE PREMIER JFK ASSASSINATION WEB SITE" by my favorite of
all authors and lawyers, Vincent Bugliosi.
In his book "Reclaiming History", Vince B. had this to say about
John's site (which are comments that I agree with wholeheartedly):
"From time to time people send me articles and documents from
the many JFK assassination Web sites, and from what I have received,
it appears to me that McAdams's site is the premier JFK assassination
Web site, clearly superior in depth and scholarship to that of his
peers." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Page 935 of "Reclaiming History" (CD
Endnotes Section)(c.2007)
Ben Holmes
Walt says...
Presumably a combination of #2 & #5:
2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and
instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being
critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also
known as the "How dare you!" gambit.
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also
known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods
qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with
unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-
wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia",
"racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This
makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same
label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
I'm sure that Aeffects will correct me if there's a better fit.
robcap...@netscape.com
one of the keys to quickly unraveling the official theory as if the
ordering of the gun is shown to be false, and this book is showing it
is, then the rest of the story is also false.
On Jan 21, 8:11 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Creating The Illusion That Oswald Purchased A
> Rifle From Klein's
>
> Six days after announcing that Oswald paid $12.78 for the rifle, *the
> FBI changed their story* and said that he paid $19.95 for the rifle
> with the scope already attached (plus $1.50 for postage).
>
> NOTE: **The author does not know why the FBI changed their story. It
> may have been because Klein's bank records did not show a deposit that
> matched that amount.
>
> In order to create the illusion that Oswald paid $21.45 for the mail
> order rifle from Klein's, the FBI had to "locate" a corresponding
> deposit in Klein's account at the First National Bank of Chicago. The
> deposit had to be untraceable, which meant that it was made in cash or
> with a US postal money order. *The deposit could not be in the form
> of a personal check, or money order issued by a private company such
> as a bank , Cooks, or American Express.*
>
> According to FBI reports, Bureau agents began tracking the $21.45
> money order at 9:00 am on the morning of November 23, *even though
> they announced a few hours later that Oswald paid $12.78 for the
> rifle*. They ALLEGEDLY spoke with William Waldman, of Klein's
> Sporting Goods, then ALLEGEDLY spoke with Lester Gohr, the Assistant
> Cashier of the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago. *These agents may
> have interviewed these witnesses, but the information contained in
> their reports suggests that they did not.*
>
> At 9:00 am FBI agents Gale Johnson, James Hanlon, and Phillip Wanerus
> ALLEGEDLY interviewd Klein's vice-president William Waldman, who
> ALLEDGEDLY told the agents that Klein's records showed that a money
> order in the amount of $21.45 was deposited to the Klein's account at
> the First National Bank of Chicago on March 15, 1963. *It is doubtful
> that Waldman gave this information to these agents, because he had not
> seen an order from "A. Hidell" on the Klein's microfilm. He did not
> know **the price paid for the rifle or the method of payment**. In
> addition, Waldman had already given Klein's microfilm to agents Dolan,
> Toedt, and Mahan earlier that morning.*
>
> After ALLEDGELY interviewing William Waldman agents Johnson, Hanlon,
> and Wanerus ALLEDGELY interviewed Robert Wilmouth, Vice-President of
> the First National Bank of Chicago *(on Sunday morning)*. According
> to their FBI report, Wilmouth said that Klein's made a deposit in the
> amount of $13,827.98 on Friday, March 15, 1963. This deposit
> contained hundreds of entries on 5 pages of adding machine tape, with
> *two entries* in the amount of $21.45 (the FBI report was wrong; there
> was only *one entry for $21.45* in he $13,827 deposit). Wilmouth
> ALLEDGELY told the agents that one of the entries represented an
> American Express money order and the second deposit item represented a
> postal money order, both in the amount of $21.45. *But how would
> Wilmouth know if these deposits were made with money orders when
> looking at numbers on adding machine tapes? (see Vol 21, p. 706).
>
> Wilmouth, ALLEDGELY told the agents that both deposits were made on
> March 15, were processed by his bank on March 16 (Saturday), and were
> received by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago on March 18, 1963.
> *But the date on the deposit slip reads "2/13/63-a month before the
> rifle was ordered (p. 706, Volume 21).* *And how could Wilmouth
> possibly know the date that a money order was deposited at the Federal
> Reserve Bank without looking at the cancelled money order, which he
> did not have??* Wilmouth ALLEDEDLY told the agents, "Postal money
> orders are sent to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, which in turn
> sends them to a central processing center located in KANSAS CITY,
> MISSOURI.
>
> NOTE: **If neither the First National Bank nor the Federal Reserve
> Board had copies of a $21.45 money order (No. 2,202,130,462), then
> Wilmouth could not possibly have known the date the money order was
> received by the Federal Reserve.**
>
> After ALLEDGELY interviewing Robert Wilmouth agents Johnson, Hanlon,
> and Wanerus ALLEDGELY interviewed Lester Gohr, the Assistant Cashier
> of the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago-*on Saturday morning*.
> According to the FBI report, Gohr said that records of postal money
> orders were only kept for 6 months and that *he had no records prior
> to May 29, 1963.*
>
> From the information ALLEDGELY obtained from these bankers, we realize
> that if they were interviewd on Saturday morning it is highly unlikely
> they furnished the information that appears in the FBI reports.
> *Also, if they had furnished information about a $21.45 money order to
> FBI agents on Saturday morning, then the Bureau would never have
> announced that Oswald paid $12.78 for the mail order rifle a few hours
> later!* It is far more likely that these FBI reports were fabricated
> in order to create the illusion that a $21.45 postal money order was
> received by Klein's, deposited to their bank account and then sent to
> the Federal Reserve.
>
> We have already learned the $21.45 money order published in the Warren
> Volumes was **never deposited into a bank or financial institution.**
> *This means the mony order was not deposited to Klein's account at the
> First National Bank of Chicago, nor deposited with the Federal Reserve
> Bank, nor then returned to the Federal Records Center in Alexandria,
> VA. It also means that the information contained in the FBI reports
> of Johnson, Hanlon, and Wanerus was fabricated in order to create the
> illusion that Oswald purchased a $21.45 money order which was
> routinely processed through the federal banking system.
>
> The "Official Story" of how the $21.45 money order was found.
>
> At 1:45 pm on Saturday, November 23 Secret Service agent Edward Z.
> Tucker arrived at Klein's Sporting Goods and began interviewing
> William Waldman. At first Waldman was reluctant to speak with Agent
> Tucker, *because he had been told by the FBI agents not to discuss the
> investigation with anyone.* He alledgely told Tucker the price of
> Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was $21.45, including postage, and payment
> may have been made with a money order. Tucker spoke with Secret
> Service agent Griffith, who then called Chicago Postal Inspector Glenn
> Knight and requested help in locating a postal money order in the
> amount of $21.45.
>
> One of the FBI agents who reviewed the Klein's microfilm, John Toedt,
> ALLEDGELY contracted the Post Office in Chicago and also asked for
> their assistance in locating a postal money order. Toedt was told to
> contract the division headquarters in KANSAS CITY.
>
> After receiving a call from the SS, Chicago Postal Inspector Martin J.
> McGee ALLEDGELY telephoned Dallas Postal Inspector Cox, who in turn
> contacted Harry Holmes, who stated he thought *he (Holmes) would be
> able to find a record of a $21.45 money order in Dallas.*
>
> NOTE: **Most of the background information relating to the $21.45
> money order that is found in the reports of the US Post Office
> originated with Harry Holmes and, therefore, should be considered
> extremely suspect.**
>
> Holmes told the WC, "I passed the information to the men (Dallas
> postal employees) who were looking for this money order 'STUB' to show
> which would designate, which would show the number of the money order,
> and that is the onley way you could find one...within 10 minutes they
> called back and said they had a money order in that amount issued on,
> I don't know that I show, but it was that money order in an amount
> issued at the main post office, which is the same place as this post
> office box was at the time, box 2915, and the money order had been
> issued **early on the morning of March 12th**, 1963.
>
> NOTE: ** US post offices always kept the end "stub" of all money
> orders sold to customers for their records. ***But neither Holmes nor
> anyone else produced the "stub" or any postal records to support his
> claim that Dallas postal employees in Dallas located the "stub" for
> postal money order No. 2,202,130,462.***
>
> **Holmes told the WC the money order was issued ***early on the
> morning of March 12th.***, 1963. Yet there is nothing on a postal
> mony order that shows the time of day it was sold. The Commission
> should have asked Holmes how he knew the money order was issued
> "**early on the morning of March 12, 1963.***"
>
> **The only indication the money order was purchased on the morning of
> March 12 was the postmark show on the microfilm copy of the envelop
> ALLEDGELY mailed to Klein's which read, "10:30 am." The Kleins'
> microfilm was never shown to Holmes and therefore Holmes could not
> have known that a postal money order was issued ***early on the
> morning of March 12, 1963***. The only way Holmes could have known
> about the postmark would be if he had previously seen, or handled, the
> envelope, or if had been told to say that.**
>
> At 3:30 pm (November 23) Harry Holmes contacted Inspector Lloyd H.
> Stephens in Fort Worth and told him that postal money order No.
> 2,202,130,462, in the amount of $21.45, had been used to pay for the
> rifle. Stephens then contacted Inspector Duggan in Washington, DC and
> game him the same information.
>
> Postal inspectors at the Federal Postal Money Order in Kansas City
> began searching for money order No. 2, 202,130,462, while a Postmaster
> General Staff meeting was held in Washington DC. A summary of the
> meeting prepared by the SS stated, "The initial request for the
> identification and location of the subject US Postal Money order had
> come from Postal Inspector Lloyd Stephens, Fort Worth, Texas.....as a
> result of a conference between Mr. Donald Duggan, Deputy Chief, Postal
> Inspection Service, Washington DC, and Postal Inspection Service at
> Fort Worth, Texas, **the original US Postal Money Order would be
> furnished to this service (Secret Service).**
>
> At 7:30 pm (CST) Chicago Postal Inspector Glenn Knight advised Secrect
> Service Agent Griffith that Postal Inspectors were attempting to
> locate the postal money order in Kansas City. **Postal inspectors in
> Kansas City had already spent 4 hours looking for postal money order
> No. 2,202,130,462, ...
>
> read more »
YoHarvey
wrote:
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fortunately, the dumb and uneducated will never inherit the earth.
Conspiracy Theory is a disease. We LN's are the cure.
robcap...@netscape.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e0c1d729...
>
> Oh brother.
>
"'ALLEGEDLY' my ass."
Maybe you'll learn from this Davy, when you don't have a conviction
against someone the word ALLEGED is mandatory to protect the fair
process of the courts. People are presumed innocent in this country,
get on board. Only the "lone nuts" get different treatment, why? The
bigger the crime the more the rules of the land should be followed in
my opinion.
"The handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT CONNECTED TO THE PURCHASE OF
RIFLE C2766 BEING IN LEE OSWALD'S OWN HANDWRITING doesn't seem to mean
a damn thing to CT-Kooks."
Please, the amount of "samples" they worked with were very small,
nothing definitive could be determined from them... this would have
come out in court.
"The magazine order-form coupon -- In LHO's writing. The envelope the
coupon was mailed in -- In LHO's writing. The Money Order for $21.45
-- In LHO's writing."
Too small of a sample to declare definitively it was LHO's. That is
the fact of handwriting analysis, the bigger the sample the more firm
the match.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
"The CTers want to sidestep the MULTIPLE hunks of "IT WAS OSWALD'S
HANDWRITING" that prove beyond all doubt that Lee Oswald (via an
obvious alias -- A.J. Hidell) ordered and paid for the JFK murder
weapon....with the kooks, instead, harping on the to-the-minute
timelines of when the documents IN OSWALD'S HANDWRITING were found."
Hunks? DVP again over emphasizes to hide the minimal "evidence" the
WC had. These were extremely small samples, see above.
"So, the next step for the kooks to take will have to be (and has been
on occasion) to accuse the authorities of forging/faking Oswald's
handwriting on EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT connected with the purchase of
the rifle (plus the revolver from Seaport-Traders too, I would
imagine)."
Who needs to claim this, when the fact is the samples were too small
to conclusively say they were of LHO's handwriting. Kooks? You are
the one who believes everything you are told regardless of whether it
is true or not. You are the kook. This isn't Nazi Germany, real proof
is needed.
"IOW -- The thread-starting post above really doesn't "Go Anywhere"
unless the CT-Kook can prove that the documents in question were not
really in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald."
It goes right to the fact that LHO probably did not order the rifle,
it was ordered for him (there is a small chance he was told to order
it via his handlers utilizing Sen. Dodd's commission) under the phony
alias that the military intelligence knew all about. LHO could NOT
have ordered a 40.2 inch rifle from the February "American Rifleman"
ad as it offered NO such rifle.
"Those crooked bastards framing Oz sure did a nice job of faking LHO's
handwriting, didn't they? They fooled every handwriting expert. Or
were those experts "in" on the massive "Let's Get Ozzie" plot too?
Prob'ly so, huh?"
What a doofus! I guess forging documents is way outside the
intelligence area. They have never done this according to a nutjob
named Davy.
"What's next on the "Nothing Is What It Seems To Be" menu, conspiracy
kooks? Maybe Jack Ruby really didn't kill Oswald at all? Maybe Ruby
was being personated by Danny Aiello. Perhaps even RUBY was framed
for murder in November 1963, huh? (After all, nothing is ever what it
seems to be in Dallas.)"
This is all you got? How about refuting all the points in the post?
Too tough for you? He has to resort to ridiculous jokes because he
can't handle the points in the post. Hilarious.
>
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TM0CP0TPL._SS500_.jpg
Sam Brown
"curtjester1" <curtj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7bcfd54-0ff5-41be...@m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> > come from Postal Inspector Lloyd Stephens, Fort Worth, Texas.....as a
>> > result of a conference between Mr. Donald Duggan, Deputy Chief, Postal
>> > Inspection Service, Washington DC, and Postal Inspection Service at
>> > Fort Worth, Texas, **the original US Postal Money Order would be
>> > furnished to this service (Secret Service).**
>>
>> > At 7:30 pm (CST) Chicago Postal Inspector Glenn Knight advised Secrect
>> > Service Agent Griffith that Postal Inspectors were attempting to
>> > locate the postal money order in Kansas City. **Postal inspectors in
>> > No. 2,202,130,462, without success.**
>>
>> > The Federal Postal Money Order Center in Kansas City was the same
>> > facility at which 5 other postal money orders were located that had
>> > been purchased by Oswald and used to repay his $435.71 loan from the
>> > Department of State. FBI SA Donald E. Stangel obtained the following
>> > information from the Department of State and the USPS.
>>
>> > He shows a chart with categories Ser # or M.O.; Amount; Issue Date;
>> > Location; and Rec'd by State Dept
>>
>> > The first 5 postal money orders (beginning with series 1,156,417,562)
>> > purchaed by Oswald in Fort Worth and Dallas were returned to the
>> > Federal Postal Money Order Center in Kansas City. The last 3 postal
>> > money ordrs (series 2,202,000,060) were returned to the Federal
>> > Records Center in Alexander, VA. Money order No. 2,202,130.462,
>> > ALLEDGELY purchased by Oswald from the GPO in Dallas, was ALLEDGELY
>> > located at the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, VA on the evening
>> > of November 23, 1963.
>>
>> > According to the serial numbers on these money orders, the GPO in
>> > Dallas sold approxiamtely 1200 money orders per week (3888 from
>> > November 14, 1962-December 6, 1962; 3475 from Jan. 5, 1963-Jan. 25,
>> > 1963). Using 1200 money orders per week as a guide, the serial number
>> > of the money order ALLEDGELY purchased by Oswald on Mar. 12, 1963, was
>> > 2,202,130,462 (***118,527 numbers higher***). This serial number
>> > indicates that this money order came from a stack of money orders that
>> > should not have been sold by the GPO in Dallas until late 1964 or
>> > early 1965, if sold in numerical order.
>>
>> > NOTE: **The Commission failed to ask the Postal Service when money
>> > orders beginning with 2,202,130 were sent to the Dallas GPO. They
>> > also failed to ask Holmes for the name of the postal employee who
>> > allededly found the "stub" for the $21.45 money order.** While Postal
>> > Inspectors continued to search for the $21.45 money order in Kansas
>> > City, Dallas Postal Inspector/FBI Informatn Harry Holmes advised the
>> > money ordr could be found in Washington DC. Holmes told the
>> > Commission, "This number (2,202,130,462) was transmitted to the Chief
>> > Inspector in Washington, who immediately got the money order center at
>> > Washington to begin a search, which they use IBM equipment to kick out
>> > this money order and sent it oer, ***so they said***, by special
>> > conveyance to the Secret Service, chief of the Secret Service at
>> > Washington now, and it turned out, ***so they said***, to be the
>> > correct money order. **Holmes was the first and only person in Dallas
>> > to know the number of the money order, and the first to suggest the
>> > money order could be located in Washington, DC.**
>>
>> > NOTE: **The WC could not understand why it took nearly ***16 hours***
>> > to locate the money order. Harry Holmes said the delay was caused
>> > because the FBI provided him with incorrect information. Holmes said
>> > the Bureau advised him the amount of the money order was $21.95
>> > instead of $21.45, which caused him to look for a different money
>> > order, ***but not a single person corroborated Holmes' story.***
>>
>> > In Washington, DC, the Deputy Chief of the Postal Inspection Service,
>> > Donald D. Duggan, insturcted Postal Finance Officer ***J. Harold
>> > Marks*** to indicate a search for the money order in Washington, DC,
>> > at 6:30 PM (CST).
>>
>> > At 7:55 PM (CST), Chicago Secret Service Agent Griffith was told that
>> > postal money order No. 2,202,130,462 had been located in Washington,
>> > DC (8:55 EST). Griffith then telephoned agent Mroz, in Kansas City,
>> > and advised him the $21.45 postal money order had been recovered in
>> > Washington.
>>
>> > NOTE: **Apparently the Dallas FBI office was not aware the money
>> > order had been located. At 9:30 PM (CST) the Dallas office sent an
>> > airtel to the Director and SAC's in Chicago and New York. The message
>> > said, "Advised inst. money order culd not be located today, but would
>> > be located *Nov. twenty four next."*
>>
>> > Postal money order No. 2,202,190,462 was ALLEDGELY found at the
>> > Federal Records Center in Alexandria, VA by Robert Jackson, *an
>> > employee of the National Archives.*
>>
>> > NOTE: **This $21.45 money order was never deposited into a financial
>> > institution and therefore could not have been routed through the
>> > banking system and returned to the Federal Records Center in
>> > Alexandria, VA. This money order was probably obtained from the GPO
>> > in Dallas in the early afternoon of November 23, hand-delivered to
>> > Washington, DC, and "planted" at the Federal Records Center in the
>> > early evening.**
>>
>> > **It remains unknown whether Robert Jackson "found" the money order at
>> > the Federal Records Center or it was given to him. There were no
>> > witnesses present and neither Jackson, Marks, Parker, nor anyone from
>> > the National Archives and Records Service were interviewed by the FBI,
>> > Secret Service, or Warren Commission.**
>>
>> > Robert Jackson hand-delivered the $21.45 money order to the home of
>> > **J. Harold Marks** in Washington, DC, who had been told to locate the
>> > money order by Deputy Chief Donald D. Duggan. A summary report
>> > prepared by Secret Service Agent Donald E. Burke on November 26, 1963
>> > provided the details of how the money order was given to the Secret
>> > Service:
>>
>> > "At 10:10 PM (EST-9:10 CST) November 23 1963 SA Parker obtained the
>> > original US Postal Money Order from Mr. Harold Marks at Mr. Marks's
>> > home. At that time Jackson was identified as Robert H. Jackson, 2121
>> > Lee Wood Drive, Alexandria, Virginia, telephone, SO 5-7501, and
>> > employee of the National Archives and Records Service....He informed
>> > SA Parker that he obtained subject original postal money order and
>> > surrendered it to Mr. Marks. Both Jackson and Marks initialed and
>> > dated the original money order, after which it was surrendered to SA
>> > Parker, who in turn initialed and dated the money order.
>>
>> > On the evening of November 23, 1963 the $21.45 postal money order was
>> > initialed and dated by Robert H. Jackson (RHJ), J. Harold Marks (JHM),
>> > and John E. Parker (JEP). A summary report by the SS explained how
>> > copies of the money order were sent to the Dallas office:
>>
>> > "SA Phillips (Secret Service, Dallas) advised, after consultation with
>> > Inspector Kelley of this service, that two photstats be made of
>> > subject postal money order and that these photostates be placed on
>> > Flight #107, Braniff Airlines, departing Washington, DC, at (9:00 am
>> > on November 24, 1963, and arriving at Dallas, Texas at 11:50 A.M.
>>
>> > SA Parker made five photostats of subject US Postal Money Order and
>> > placed them in an envelope. SA Parker surrendered the envelop to
>> > Captain Davis of Flight #107, Braniff Airlines, departing National
>> > Airport, Washington, DC, at 9 AM on November 24, 1963, for delivery to
>> > Special Agent in Charge, US Secret Service at Dallas.
>>
>> > The secret service provided the Dallas Police with a copy of the money
>> > order, which was published among their exhibits in the Warren Volumes,
>> > CE 2003 (DPD file). The Secret Service summary report explained what
>> > happened to the ***original*** $21.45 money order:
>>
>> > "SA (Max D.) Phillips also requested that a chain of custody be
>> > maintained, and that ***original postal money order be retained by the
>> > Washington Field Office safe.***
>>
>> > SA Parker then surrendered the original US Postal Money Order to SAIC
>> > Gaiglein, which he had previously placed in a sealed white envelope
>> > after which SA Parker placed the ***original US Postal Money Order
>> > sealed in this envelope in the WFO (Washington Field Office) safe.***
>>
>> > On the morning of November 24, 1963, Deputy Chief Paterni (Secret
>> > Service, Washington), when informed by SA John H. Grimes, Jr., of this
>> > Secret Service that the Postal Inspection Service, through Postal
>> > Inspector Joseph A. Verant advised that the original US Postal Money
>> > Order ws being sought by the FBI, authorized SA Grimes to surrender
>> > the original Postal Money Order to the Federal Bureau of
>> > Investigation. Immediately thereafter, while SA Grimes was attempting
>> > to make telephone contact with SAIC Glenn Gillies, Washington Field
>> > Office, Federal Bureau of Investigation, SA Leslie B. Chisholm, FBI,
>> > telephonicall contacted the reporting agent concerning this original
>> > US Postal Money Order. SA Chisholm was advised that the postal money
>> > order was available and he stated he or an agent of the FBI would pick
>> > up this money order at the Washington Field Ofice of this Secret
>> > Service).
>>
>> > SA Grimes of this service removed the sealed envelope containing the
>> > original US Postal Money ORder from the WFO safe; removed the original
>> > money order from this envelope; initialed and dated the money order;
>> > made four photostats of it, and surrendered it to SA Chisholm of the
>> > FBI who executed a receipt."
>>
>> > On November 24, SA Chisholm delivered the original money order to
>> > James T. Freeman at the FBI laboratory in Washington, DC. The summary
>> > report continued:
>>
>> > "This paid order was located at the Records Center in Alexandria,
>> > Virginia on the early evening of November 23. It was turned over to a
>> > Secret Service agent in Washington, DC who flew it to Dallas."
>>
>> > NOTE: **The information that a secret service agent hand carried the
>> > original money order to Dallas came from Harry Holmes. As we have
>> > seen, this did not happen and was yet another of Holmes'
>> > fabrications. ***Copies** of the money order were sent to Dallas, but
>> > the original uncashed and undepostited money order was turned over to
>> > the FBI laborator.**
>>
>> > What is the origin of the unused $21.45 money order?
>>
>> > To be considered later.
>>
>> > Taken from Harvey and Lee pgs 461-67
>>
>> > CJ
>>
>> 44 years and this is the shit that CT's have to post. God love
>> America......for tolerating this crap.
>
> An LNT'er couldn't possibly love America when they careless about the
> evidence in general or the chain of evidence when they knock off an
> American President.
What if you are not american, can you not love america, and be a cter? You
are talking nonsense again dirtfester. Try to keep your emotions in check.
>
> CJ
David Von Pein
Bullshit.
The writing on EVERY questioned document was proven to have been
Oswald's. That's a fact you'll just have to live with.
And the Questioned Documents Experts examined many, many samples of
LHO's handwriting (to compare with the Money Order and the Klein's
order form) -- e.g., his "Historic Diary", his letters to his brother
from Russia, his letters to Marina, his letters to the Soviet
officials, his many I.D. cards, his correspondence with the FPCC in
NYC, his TSBD work application, and other misc. correspondence to
various other agencies.
There were so many samples of Oswald's writing, it's staggering. Much
like the amount of evidence against him overall, which was also in the
"staggering" category.
bigdog
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of course you believe Truly was in on it because you are a dumbass.
You idiots will invent any story imaginable, and I do mean imaginable,
to deny each and every last piece of evidence that indicates Oswald
was guilty, which is virtually every piece of evidence there is. You
are so seriously headfucked, Shemp, that you consider other CTs who
are able to make rational arguments, such as Martin Shackelford, as if
they are LNs. Anyone who isn't a full fledged citizen of Stupidville
is your enemy. You are a fucking joke.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Please, the amount of "samples" they worked with were very small, nothing definitive could be determined from them... this would have come out in court." <<<
>
> Bullshit.
>
"The writing on EVERY questioned document was proven to have been
Oswald's. That's a fact you'll just have to live with."
The amount of the money order was for the 36 inch rifle, scope and
shipping and handling, NOT a 40.2 inch rifle. That is something
you'll have to live with.
"And the Questioned Documents Experts examined many, many samples of
LHO's handwriting (to compare with the Money Order and the Klein's
order form) -- e.g., his "Historic Diary", his letters to his brother
from Russia, his letters to Marina, his letters to the Soviet
officials, his many I.D. cards, his correspondence with the FPCC in
NYC, his TSBD work application, and other misc. correspondence to
various other agencies."
When I said the samples were too small, I meant the money order and
envelope, not every document he ever wrote. It is very difficult to
say the two above documents were of his writing style because they had
so little of his writing. It would be easy to forge that little bit
of writing. That was my point. This would have been challenged in
court quite successfully. The main issue for you is the fact he
allegedly ordered a 36 inch rifle and yet allegedly left a 40.2 rifle
in the TSBD.
"There were so many samples of Oswald's writing, it's staggering. Much
like the amount of evidence against him overall, which was also in the
"staggering" category."
Who cares? The way it works in a court of law is the money order and
the envelope were the evidence (the order form was in block letters so
it would not count) as they could be linked to the alleged rifle
order, not his "staggering" amount of correspondence, et. al., thus,
that has nothing to do with anything. They would have to prove that
based on a very limited amount of writing they could determine it was
LHO's to the exclusion of every other living human on the planet.
Very tough to do.
Walt
No, I believe Truly was part of the conspiracy for a number of
reasons.... He gave Oswald a job at the TSBD at a time when the
business was winding down after the start of the school year. He
didn't need any help ( he had let a couple of workers go just a couple
of weeks before he hired LHO) Who told him to put Oswald on the
payroll??
Oswald told the interrogators that he'd seen the Carcano and two other
rifles in Mr. Truly's office on Wednesday Nov 20.
Truly had seen Oswald in the lunch room just seconds after the
shooting so he should have dismissed him as a suspect, but when he
held a rollcall for his employees the only one he said was missing was
Oswald. Although there were at least two others missing. Why did he
report Oswald missing when he could easily have said;" well, he's not
here now, but I saw him in the lunchroom just a few seconds after the
shooting.....and when I saw him he acted completely normal. Roy Truly
deserves to be a suspect.
> You idiots will invent any story imaginable, and I do mean imaginable,
> to deny each and every last piece of evidence that indicates Oswald
> was guilty, which is virtually every piece of evidence there is. You
> are so seriously headfucked, Shemp, that you consider other CTs who
> are able to make rational arguments, such as Martin Shackelford, as if
> they are LNs. Anyone who isn't a full fledged citizen of Stupidville
> is your enemy. You are a fucking joke.- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
>>> "Roy Truly deserves to be a suspect." <<<
Sure. Everybody's a suspect except a guy named Lee.
Right, Walter?
Walt
Right, Walter?
Where were you at 12:30 November 22 1963??
tomnln
Italian made rifle with SN C2766.
http://whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:84864fe3-cc7a-41cc...@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
curtjester1
> one of the keys to quickly unraveling the official theory as if the
> ordering of the gun is shown to be false, and this book is showing it
> is, then the rest of the story is also false.
>
different keys for many unravellings, and if one emails me if they are
interesting in obtaining the book, I can give them the particular's.
CJ
curtjester1
> "curtjester1" <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Put the plug in the jug.
CJ
Sam Brown
I am quite happy to now that I have shown you up to be an idiot. Again.
Thankyou.
>
> CJ
curtjester1
If avoiding the content of the topic at hand and going off ini some
inane vein about americana then your happiness has to be the lowest
entertainment level rating of all time.
CJ
Sam Brown
I'm sorry stump. Perhaps I didnt make myself clear. I have finished with
you. Be gone. Be silent.
CJ
curtjester1
Can any CT have hurt feelings by being killified by a LNT troll?
CJ